Breaking synths for skillups

[zagex]

Every now and then I hear something about skilling up by taking a multiple synth item where you're very low on one craft, and within 5 lvls for the other craft, and somehow magically gaining skill very quickly while blowing up all the items. Can anyone explain how this works? Currently 81.3 clothcraft main

[Rodin]

Withing 6 levels of the cap of the sub, I believe you can break synths and get skill for them. Breaking is random, but you can get a higher break chance (I don't know why on God's Green Earth anyone would want to do this. Edit: I meant for skilling up a craft.) If you synth during Full moon on Darksday. (Higher Break Rate, Higher HQ Rate)

Also, if you're synthing with Earth Crystals, face SouthEast, that supposedly ups your Break Rate and HQ rate as well.

[Aeni]

(I don't know why on God's Green Earth anyone would want to do this. Edit: I meant for skilling up a craft.)

If you're a gil buyer, you would do this. Trying to get to 100 in the fastest amount of time, money not being an issue. There's plenty such players on my server (I won't name any names) and it's plainly obvious to see that they buy gils. Someone who's conscious about blowing up items and not wanting to lose out on every opportunity to reclaim even a % of the investment will never try to break his/her synths on purpose just to get faster skillups (Especially on items that sells fairly well on the AH and even returns profits)

Otherwise, I wouldn't even bother advising people to go this route. Save your gils and just let time help you mature your skills as a crafter. Game has been around for, what, 4 years or so now and probably at least that much more longer into the future...

[Wertyone]

On certain synths the end result is worth less than the ingrediants. Some people feel that it is better to try to get a break and hope that you do not loose the more expensive ingrediant than to have a successful synth and be stuck with a worthless end product.

So if you main craft skill is within 5 levels of the synth cap and your sub skill is within 15 its cap you can synth the item, hope for a skill up on your main craft (because it is within 5 levels of the cap you can gain skill on a fail) and then have the synth fail and hope that you don't loose the more expensive ingrediant.

[Embracingsoul]

I "broke synthed" my cooking from level 94-95 It was an expensive ish recipe to cook and the cost of the product that was made (Rice Dumpling) Was not worth the cost of the ingrediants. I think the cost of ingrediants was about 80k a stack and the final product sold at AH for about 5k. I did not want to add the cost of taking woodworking to level 15 on top of that one simple recipe for one level of cooking.

[BadPlayer]

(I don't know why on God's Green Earth anyone would want to do this. Edit: I meant for skilling up a craft.)

If you're a gil buyer, you would do this. Trying to get to 100 in the fastest amount of time, money not being an issue. There's plenty such players on my server (I won't name any names) and it's plainly obvious to see that they buy gils. Someone who's conscious about blowing up items and not wanting to lose out on every opportunity to reclaim even a % of the investment will never try to break his/her synths on purpose just to get faster skillups (Especially on items that sells fairly well on the AH and even returns profits)

Otherwise, I wouldn't even bother advising people to go this route. Save your gils and just let time help you mature your skills as a crafter. Game has been around for, what, 4 years or so now and probably at least that much more longer into the future...

Let me try to explain why this is done.

Imagine there is a item that cost you to make 100k and you sell it for 20k. You would loose 80k for every synth.

Now imagine you can do another synth that would cost you 50k, but you would break everyone of them.

First situation you would lose 960k for every stack of synths, in the second you would loose 600k. So you would be SAVING gil. You can even consider that you don't loose all your materials everytime you synth, so in the second situation you can even craft more than a stack.

I have done this and it works! I have saved more than 2Ms with this.

Just to clarify something to gain skillups from breaks you need to be at 5 lvls from the main craft and 15 lvls from the sub craft (If you are using a sub craft to break). The low lvl from the sub makes you break the synths.

I hope this is helpfull!

[Spinnthrift]

Either as the above poster said... or...

personally...

As a crafter - I live by two rules usually:

1: Craft within 5 levels of the skill cap.
2: Profit while skilling up.

I'll identify spots where I can make a profit synthing along my way to greater caps, sometimes I need to bypass a bad area where I'm not getting the profit's I'd like from skilling up. So - break synthing is ideal for those nasty gaps - especially if you can put in cheaper synths to bridge the gap.

Yup - there are times when I have to consider what is an acceptable expense in the grand scheme of things. For example - is it worth me breaking 1 million gil's worth of synths if it puts me another tier higher over a previous HQ synth that I can profit off? I'll weigh up the odds - and if my return is greater than my expense over time, I'll gladly go break synthing.

And no.. I don't buy gil. Hence why I'm here and not on Allak.

If I've found a cheap synth that I can break for skill, I will use it if it does either of the following:

1: Puts me into a profit synth for skilling up.
2: Puts me into a new HQ tier for a previous recipe.

Five levels of cheap skillups aren't to be sneered at.

- Sae

[Rodin]

Let me try to explain why this is done.

Imagine there is a item that cost you to make 100k and you sell it for 20k. You would loose 80k for every synth.

Now imagine you can do another synth that would cost you 50k, but you would break everyone of them.

First situation you would lose 960k for every stack of synths, in the second you would loose 600k. So you would be SAVING gil. You can even consider that you don't loose all your materials everytime you synth, so in the second situation you can even craft more than a stack.

I have done this and it works! I have saved more than 2Ms with this.

Just to clarify something to gain skillups from breaks you need to be at 5 lvls from the main craft and 15 lvls from the sub craft (If you are using a sub craft to break). The low lvl from the sub makes you break the synths.

I hope this is helpfull!

Yes, it was, but the reason I'm against that is usually, you don't know what you're gonna lose. You COULD break only the crystal, but it's also equally common to lose everything. That's the thing I don't like, is the chance to lose that 70k rainbow cloth (Rainbow prices have dropped since ToAU came out <3). But it would still be expensive if you're losing it, instead of making that 20k return. It's all up to chance when you're break synthing. IMO, just cut your losses, and synth when you'll get the most skill.

Double Post Edited:


1: Puts me into a profit synth for skilling up.
2: Puts me into a new HQ tier for a previous recipe.

Five levels of cheap skillups aren't to be sneered at.

- Sae

The thing with clothcraft, is that during most of the levels, it's possible to skill from 10 levels below a cap on certain items, and they turn out to be cheap as hell. Right now, I'm close to 72 with clothcraft. (Orz, just tried to use the auto-translate >_<) Anyways, from 62-72 (and I have about 20 stacks of mats, enough to take me to cap) I synthed Black Chocobo Fletchings. It's a CHEAP ass synth, and GREAT for skilling up, breaking or not. It takes you 10 levels, for 2600 (at the most, not counting Wind Crystal cost) gil a synth. Amazingly cheap. Also, instead of doing Silk, I did Hunter's Cotton. I actually made some deals with low-level boneworkers, and sponsored them from the teens to level 21, and got Carapace Powder made. These synths have saved me over 10,000,000 gil. I've only spent about 900 from 56 to 72. Now it's not how you synth, it's what you synth. :P

[bungiefan]

That's the thing I don't like, is the chance to lose that 70k rainbow cloth (Rainbow prices have dropped since ToAU came out <3). But it would still be expensive if you're losing it, instead of making that 20k return. It's all up to chance when you're break synthing.

My interpratation of it is that with a synth you know you are going to fail, you only have a chance of losing an ingredient other than the crystal, and if the ingredients cost 50k per synth, you only lose at most 50k per synth. If you do a 100k synth that won't always fail, and that only sells for 20k when completed, then you ALWAYS lose the ingredients when you complete the synth, and lose 80k per synth. Thus, if you skill up at 0.1 point per synth, to gain one level it ends up only costing 500k at most for the break synth route to, while it will cost at least 800k for that level with the one that doesn't break. You're coming out behind by not break synthing, though you do get some money back out of your 1m investment, you're still spending more for the same end result.

[Genesite]

I agree with the Break Synthing Skillup method. As long as you do the math correctly, making sure you're losing less money this way than success synthing, it has another bonus.

This is being able to use the same ingredients again for ANOTHER synth. This has several advantages.

Say you succeed 80 times. You've lost 80 of Ingredient A and 500K on selling the product.
Then you fail 80 times. You lost 40 of Ingredient A and 500K in breaks of Ingredient A.

The difference is after the second scenario, you still have 40 of Ingredient A left. You don't have to buy out the AH again (assuming there's any left) and drive up the price of Ingredient A, making you lose more money in the long run.

Also, to help this method, you should use a powerful moghouse energy. This reduces the chance of losing ingredients.

In Alchemy and Cooking, I would find the cheapest recipe I could up to 10 levels away. I'd then go crafting on Lights Day, Full Moon with advanced support. I would succeed maybe 1/2 synths, but get skillups almost every success, even to 94+.

Good luck.

[Caspian]

I agree with the Break Synthing Skillup method. As long as you do the math correctly, making sure you're losing less money this way than success synthing, it has another bonus.

This is being able to use the same ingredients again for ANOTHER synth. This has several advantages.

Say you succeed 80 times. You've lost 80 of Ingredient A and 500K on selling the product.
Then you fail 80 times. You lost 40 of Ingredient A and 500K in breaks of Ingredient A.

The difference is after the second scenario, you still have 40 of Ingredient A left. You don't have to buy out the AH again (assuming there's any left) and drive up the price of Ingredient A, making you lose more money in the long run.

Also, to help this method, you should use a powerful moghouse energy. This reduces the chance of losing ingredients.

In Alchemy and Cooking, I would find the cheapest recipe I could up to 10 levels away. I'd then go crafting on Lights Day, Full Moon with advanced support. I would succeed maybe 1/2 synths, but get skillups almost every success, even to 94+.

Good luck.

Thats why I know a lot of people who will make an item (usually equipment since it doesn't sell real well) then use lightning crystals to break it back down to its component. Works best for stuff where the nq breakdown is the most expensive item, or even better when its just a 1 item and 1 crystal synth. You can craft for much longer with the same materials. Yes, you'll eventually lose everything this way, but if you are skilling up fast enough it won't be as much as otherwise.

[Spinnthrift]

I know some synths can be done from ~10 levels, but I tend to synth in the field... one of my.. erm... ritual habits? (so to speak). I've always felt I've had better synth skillups when I'm crafting on site instead of crafting at the guild. :rolleyes:

I know it's idiosyncratic, but it came from when I was starting out mining.. I *hated* having to go back to base a lot to craft with any modicum of success. :angry:

It also makes me feel less of a power crafter harvesting my own goods and crafting as I do stuff (I can't wait to get to 46 Clothcraft so I can synth up Crawler Cocoons while harvesting for this reason).:wtf:

Sometimes I do just want to get bad synths out of the way though.. Leathercraft was/is hell for me in that sense... I am happy spending 2 hours hunting Sheep for Sheepskin, to synth up to burn away tossing Soleas, but I hate buying Lizard Skins to craft up to 16 so I can start on Dhalmel Leather. Oh no.. I'm a neurotic crafter. >< God, someone help me! :rofl: :vent: :o I even tried farming Wolf Hides to make Wolf Fur.. but eesh.. let's not even go there... suffice to say at this particular time I cracked, threw some darts around in Pashhow and ended up with a stack of Beastman Blood to buy my skins with.

Anyways... I've rationalised my new skillup path with getting Healing Breeze for Blue Mage. I'll have 4 nice levels to whack Dhalmel and try and learn the skill. God - my eccentricities are really showing through now. :eek:

If I'd gone the route of most profitable farming to pay for most profitable synth, I would be a 100+3, 60 base crafter by now... instead of where I am.. which is.. erm.. skilling up Clothcraft/Leathercraft to 60 when I want to be a Bonecrafter. :o

Although... saying that... I also have a kinda sneaky suspicision that my HQ rate while skilling up is increased if the subskill set is over the Tier 1 level... but I can't/won't try to prove it.. just something that I feel and play by.. and jeez.. I've just lost any/all credibility by talking... I'll shush now.

And for those wondering.. I'm quite happy running around solo/with friends just mooching about and having fun, I'm not really a serious gamer in the respect that I'll probably have gotten to 100 crafting before level 75... just more fun for me this way.

- Saeriel.

[Aeni]

Let me try to explain why this is done.

No, the method you're explaining here has meaning behind the madness. If there is logic involved and if the outcome is the best you can come up with, then under that circumstance, I can see why players would try to break their synths.

However, if the recipe calls for multiple expensive items, which is usually the case in Alchemy, then when a person is purposely blowing up items under the profess belief that he/she can get faster skillups and lose around 100K per blowup (And blow up 40 times in one sitdown) then they lost 4 mil gils.

4 mil gils is not something you find lying around and to just throw it away. I can think of many things you can do and if you showed me the recipe, come up with other alternatives to skill up in your craft.

That is what I'm getting at.

[Jei]

there are quite a lot of popular break synth that people use. One I can think right off my head is iron spitter
http://www.ffrecipe.com/recipeDetails.php?rid=1957

the idea is to keep the sub craft 6-7 skills below the cap while your main craft is already within 5 skills from cap. So when you fail, you can still skill your main craft You don't want your sub craft to be too low however because you will start to lose ingradiants too often.
And get moghancement that matches the crystal of the synth up to minimize item lost.

Iron spitter as far as I know is a losing profit synth already. So successfully synthing for a lost is not better than failing imo. If your moghancement is strong enough you should be able to fail synth like 6-7 times without losing materials.

[Nakti]

Every now and then I get into recording my synthing results.
Here's what I've found:

You can gain skillups on breaks if your craft skill is within 5 levels of the synth cap.

I have never gotten a skillup on a break when I have been more than 5 levels below the synth cap. Even if I had advanced synthesis support which adds +3 (yes, I tested that) temporarily to your craft skill. So while I can't prove that you *won't* get a skillup on breaks more than 5 levels below cap, I haven't seen anyone confirm it.

When your synth breaks, you have a 50% chance of losing any given ingredient. You always lose the crystal.

I recorded this over several levels of various crafts, but all below level 60, so it's possible this % is different for above-level-60 crafts. If you're getting more losses, try a different moon phase. There is still great debate about which phase causes HQs, skillups, etc. With the synths I do, I have found that New Moon causes more HQs and Full Moon causes more successes.

I haven't noticed any faster skilling via breaks than successes.

So I wouldn't recommend *trying* for breaks. But don't be afraid of breaking synths if the ingredient cost is higher than the resulting product. Just stay within 5 levels of the synth cap. And I recommend the advanced synth support until you're at least 2 to 3 levels of the synth cap.

[Corrderio]

I mostly do this on Goldsmith right now, I can buy 2 stacks of Mythril Sheets and a stack of Ram Leather to make 12 synths compared to buying 2 Gold Ingots just to make 1 synth for close to the same price.

Yes it burns a hole in the pocket, but gotta spend money to make money.

[Nakti]

I forgot to add that you can reduce the materials lost to synth breakage if you use Moghancement:<Appropriate Element> If you check the Moghancement in your Key Item list, you'll see it says something about reducing items lost during synthesis.

[zagex]

I haven't noticed any faster skilling via breaks than successes.

So I wouldn't recommend *trying* for breaks. But don't be afraid of breaking synths if the ingredient cost is higher than the resulting product. Just stay within 5 levels of the synth cap. And I recommend the advanced synth support until you're at least 2 to 3 levels of the synth cap.

This was a comment I was mainly looking for. I haven't done very many synths involving multiple crafts, however hunter's cotton is good example of a worthless item that uses skillups. With that synth, any item not lost in breaking is better than a successful synth.


I forgot to add that you can reduce the materials lost to synth breakage if you use Moghancement:<Appropriate Element> If you check the Moghancement in your Key Item list, you'll see it says something about reducing items lost during synthesis.

I never thought about that, but it does make a lot of sense. I've also never really worked with items that are ridiculously expensive

[sarlos]

Just some anecdotal evidence...

With overwhelming Moghancement: Wind, you can get from 95-100 Woodworking at the cost of only about two stacks of Adaman Ingots. I know three friends who did this, and as soon as I hit 95, I will be doing it myself. The other thing that helps is getting Advanced Image Support and having your +3 from GP items as well. This puts you effectively 1 over the cap. Also, your Smithing must be just high enough to be able to do the synth, but more than 10 below the cap, so around 40ish.

[Tirrock]

I don't think you can have both the GP furnishing and overwhelming wind energy in your mog house at the same time... Although I've heard rumors of the GP furnishings making it so you lose less items on broken synths for all crystals of that guild. I have no idea if that's true or not though, it's hard to get any real information about the GP furnishings.

[sarlos]

I don't think you can have both the GP furnishing and overwhelming wind energy in your mog house at the same time... Although I've heard rumors of the GP furnishings making it so you lose less items on broken synths for all crystals of that guild. I have no idea if that's true or not though, it's hard to get any real information about the GP furnishings.Ack, you're right of course. Still, with the Apron and other +1 item, plus advanced image support, you are even with the skill cap at five under.

[mikesjustice]

You can use this method in gsmithing during "Gold Hell" road, and 98-100 Woodworking making Iron splitters. Also you can use it in earlier WW lvls and in other guilds.

There's a very specific use for this tactic, and it's something you don't just freely use. The average "save" in materials you will see is approx 33% upwards as high as 50%. 33% is much more common however.

Again, only as one example.

"Gold Hell" requires approx 30 stacks of gold ingots. NOTHING npcs for value, and nothing sells on ah for anything remotely decent aside from ashuras. Under certain conditions you can save about 10 stacks of gold ingots, or nearly 10-15 million gil.

I speak from experience using this technique across (5) 95+ guilds. It saves gil when properly applied in the right situation. That's fact.

Learn it, use it, and abuse it when it makes sense.