Magic Attack to a RDM

[almighty_boof]

I'll just get straight to the point without wasting time.

Does Magic Attack Bonus help with enfeeble spells? I mean sticking and duration.

[Jei]

don't think so. It helps with the damage you deal with your nukes as far as I know

[BurningPanther]

Yeah, I fiddled with this for a while, equipping my Moldavite earring in my enfeebling macros to see if there was any noticeable enhancement or degradation in efficacy. Without a log parser and more controlled situations(I never bothered to isolate my Moldavite from my other equipped enfeebling gear), I couldn't come to a conclusion, and thusly didn't notice any real enhancement with a M.Atk bonus.

[Icemage]

Magic Attack does not affect enfeebling magic at all. Otherwise end-game BLMs would be sticking their enfeebles left and right at level 75. :)


Icemage

[Karinya]

Magic *accuracy* (chasuble set and a few other pieces) is believed to have some effect, but AFAIK the exact size of the effect is not well established (I have seen claims of anywhere from 1 M.acc = 1 skill to 1 M.acc = 3 skill).

I recently "inherited" some of the set from a friend who is leaving FFXI (I hope only for a while...), so I may do some testing of it; if so, I'll post results on this board.

[Aeni]

Magic *accuracy* (chasuble set and a few other pieces) is believed to have some effect, but AFAIK the exact size of the effect is not well established (I have seen claims of anywhere from 1 M.acc = 1 skill to 1 M.acc = 3 skill).

I recently "inherited" some of the set from a friend who is leaving FFXI (I hope only for a while...), so I may do some testing of it; if so, I'll post results on this board.

Full Chasuble set is now at about 3.5 million. What about your server? I'm thinking these will go the way of Healer's set for WHMs, namely being 3x more expensive than the second month they were available ... I'm still miffed that the glove is 800K when it was only 300K a few weeks back >.>

[kman]

Magic attack does have an effect on your fire spikes : )

[Aeni]

Just about how strong is each point of magic attack bonus on nuking? For example, what does 1 point of Magic Attack equates to? I should also ask about Magic Accuracy as well.

Only reason I ask is that when I nuke on MB ... I don't seem to notice anything substantial with or without my moldavite earring. Of course, the only thing that's making me look bad are the resists on my nuking (Which probably means I need to get Magic Accuracy from someplace) I think I get resisted on my nuking on IT++ about 70% of the time (1/2, 1/4, etc.) I mean, when my Fire II lands on a Robber Crab, 198 dmg is a full non-resist. I can tell because I see 1/2 and 1/4 that for resists (All they way to 1/32 I think ... LOL)

Anywho, I have no idea if how one thing works on one main job works the same way for another. It's all confusing.

[Icemage]

Simplistic non-math-based answer: +1 Magic Attack = +1% multiplier on your damage. At your level, most nukes will show less than a handful of damage difference with or without Moldavite Earring.


Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

I'm still miffed that the glove is 800K when it was only 300K a few weeks back >.>

Wise Gloves give +5 MND, so maybe that's a reason. Well, that was my reason in any case.

I used to know the MAB relation inside and out, now I'm a bit rusty. But as far as I can see (nice job on making an acronym, Karinya >.>), MAB, like it does for BLM affect our spell damage.

However, I think that RDM and BLM nuke fundamentally different, because while my spell damage is low, I never get resisted. 400-500 is normal nukage for me while 600-700 is normal MBing.

BLMs can shoot all over the place, especially when they stack MAB and don't pay attention to things like INT, Elemental Skill and Magic Accuracy. . .

I'll post a screenshot of me casting Fire 3 for more than the BLMs Fire 4.

RDM Nuking seems to thrive on the fact that we can do consistent damage. AS MP heavy as Nukes are, it's good that we don't do uber damage, influencing us to nuke all the time. Conversely, it's good that we don't do pitiful damage, making our efforts seem worthless.

For the record, to put it in laymans terms, Magic Accuracy is the potential for us to land a spell. For nukes, this means the difference between a half resisted nuke and an unresisted nuke. For Enfeebles, this means landing it or not. However, I'm of the opinion that MAgic Accuracy doesn't "Strengthen" spells.

INT and MND are the "Strengthening" aspects of spells. For enfeebles, this means potency, for nukes (INT) this means how strong the spell is.

For Example, on DC Steelshells, I do more damage when I stack INT, since because of my skill, I do not need magic accuracy. But for exp, I have in excess of 120INT, more than Hume BLMs, but because of MAB gear and their latent Elemental skill, they nuke harder than me. That's not to say I nuke weak though. 600+ from RDMs, consistently, is pretty much unheard of.

The best thing is to stack skill. Skill is both potency and accuracy. I had a post a while back where a lvl 50RDM with insanely gimped gear compared to mine was enfeebling better than me at 48. That +6 Enfeebling was more than enough to make up for the 12 or so I had over him in INT and MND.

Skill > Bonuses (MAB or MagicAcc) > INT/MND

INT is an old-school way of boosting buffs, but is the bottom line. I, however, prefer consistency, and I'd rather have spells that work over spells that are strong but don't work all the time.

[Armando]

Regarding Magic Accuracy: There's no way we'll ever know for sure, but it's highly likely that Magic Skills and Magic Accuracy follow the same relationship as Weapon Skills and melee Accuracy. 1 Magic skill most likely gives 1 Magic Accuracy for that kind of magic. It'd also be safe to assume that 1 Magic Skill -> 0.9 Magic Accuracy once you get to 200 skill.

As for Magic Attack Bonus: Like Icemage said, +1 MAB adds 1% of the spell's base damage. Basically, Magic Attack Bonus traits give you a fixed multiplier, with equipment adding straight to that. The traits are:

Magic Attack Bonus I: 1.20
Magic Attack Bonus II: 1.24
Magic Attack Bonus III: 1.28
Magic Attack Bonus IV: 1.32

When autotranslated, the information on Studio Gobli suggests that Magic Defense Bonus traits have values of 1.10, 1.12, 1.14, and 1.16, and that MAB is divided by MDB. I've done some experiments, and while I've never gotten the numbers to match perfectly, the data is close to the expected numbers. Also, when doing the math with the numbers given above, dividing by MDB gives closer numbers to the data than subtracting the MDB values from MAB.

[WishMaster3K]

Not sure, because Mages can't stack Magic Accuracy the way Melee stack their accuracy. However, Melee are more reliant, and a WAR that hits 50% of the time will get you killed faster than a BLM that resists 50% of their nukes.

So ok, I'll see if I can have a control experiment on those numbers. ^^ I love Crabs, they're the jokes of the game. They give consistent numbers.

[Aeni]

Wise Gloves give +5 MND, so maybe that's a reason. Well, that was my reason in any case.

Maybe. It's not like I saw any real reason why the gloves would be popular *now* as it should've been all this time. Something is fishy here (Maybe the supply for the materials are starting to dry up or someone is controlling the flow of supplies of materials)

However, I think that RDM and BLM nuke fundamentally different, because while my spell damage is low, I never get resisted. 400-500 is normal nukage for me while 600-700 is normal MBing.

I think BLMs mentality derives on the fact that they have the least amount of responsibilities compared with the (usually) other two mage slots. They're not there for main healing (obviously) and they're not really great in a support role either (no party benefit spells) This enables them to concentrate on the one aspect they do well -- nuke and nuke.

RDM Nuking seems to thrive on the fact that we can do consistent damage. AS MP heavy as Nukes are, it's good that we don't do uber damage, influencing us to nuke all the time. Conversely, it's good that we don't do pitiful damage, making our efforts seem worthless.

And that is where I am having problems at. I get resists so much that I shy away from ever trying to cast a spell. Although I've been better now. What I do is choose the lowest (strong) spell I can for my level that is effective against the monster (meaning if it has weakness to it) and cast that instead. I seem to have less resists this way while not emptying out my precious MP pool for a wasted 1/32 resist (which blows btw)

For the record, to put it in laymans terms, Magic Accuracy is the potential for us to land a spell. For nukes, this means the difference between a half resisted nuke and an unresisted nuke. For Enfeebles, this means landing it or not. However, I'm of the opinion that MAgic Accuracy doesn't "Strengthen" spells.

I know that it doesn't strengthen spells and hence my asking about magic attack as well (using Mold. Earring example)

Skill > Bonuses (MAB or MagicAcc) > INT/MND

INT is an old-school way of boosting buffs, but is the bottom line. I, however, prefer consistency, and I'd rather have spells that work over spells that are strong but don't work all the time.

I do notice that as long as my enfeebling skill is capped, then I do get less resists. With strong MND and INT bonuses (For each respective enfeebling spell) the duration lasts longer. However, on IT monsters and when just newly leveled, this can be an obstacle to overcome. Really difficult especially when melees in the PT complain about that fact.

[DakkoN]

Certain pieces of the JSE set are cheap because the material to make them is a common drop in ENM.

Wise Gloves are the most useless piece of all simply because Devotee's Mitts and Devotee's +1 exist.

[WishMaster3K]

The gloves are dual purpose, assisting RDM in end-game front line actions. So you have one less thing to worry bout Macroing in. Also, there is no -INT bonus.

Aeni, honestly, life sucked for me before I got to 72. End-game stat boosting is ridiculously easy and cheap (look at my low funds *_*) so it's all a matter of plugging along. In the first screen I attached, check out what my INT is at. And this is with gear that is, largely, common.

Just for the sake of reference, I'll log back into my character next month and show the gear I'm using as a 75.

Since getting to 75, I've been able to shy away from pure INT more, but that's a different concept.

But just like I noticed a change when I got to 51 and had staves, I noticed a difference when I got to 72 and was able to utilize Errant and JSE. The make a HUGE difference.

[BurningPanther]

What do you utilize for nuking? I macro in mostly Wise gear for nukes, with Errant's and AF for healing, enfeebling, and enhancing.

[Aeni]

Aeni, honestly, life sucked for me before I got to 72. End-game stat boosting is ridiculously easy and cheap (look at my low funds *_*) so it's all a matter of plugging along. In the first screen I attached, check out what my INT is at. And this is with gear that is, largely, common.

Since getting to 75, I've been able to shy away from pure INT more, but that's a different concept.

But just like I noticed a change when I got to 51 and had staves, I noticed a difference when I got to 72 and was able to utilize Errant and JSE. The make a HUGE difference.

Hey Wish, could you describe the levels and tell me how you fared and what I'm suppose to look out for? I want to be prepared. If I'm going to suck, at least knowing that (for those few levels) will make my gaming less stressful. =/

For example, here's my experience thus far:

Level 1-18

-Solo RDM (PL from my other account)
-WHM to 18
-BLM to 18

Level 18-28

-Enfeebling sticking rate at or near 80% on any monster encountered (exp wise)
-Primarily used cookies as food
-Decent replacement for BLM
-Pretty good replacement for WHM

Level 28-40

-Enfeebling sticking rate at or near 60% on any monster encountered (exp wise)
-Still using cookies as food when main healing, but in role of support, I use roast mushrooms)
-No way as hell can I ever half-replace a BLM
-Life is diffcult as main healer without MP regen ability

Level 40-50

-Enfeebling sticking rate at or near 70% on low IT and lower mobs. Anything above low IT the rate will drop to about 40% or worse. This is the first I've seen where my resist-rates are incredibly high.
-Cost for additional 1 MND or 1INT upgrade on average is roughly 250K per on my server from equipment and as high as 350K per from accessories.
-Main healing is possible, but not without a BRD main.
-Temp hold for a BLM? LOL ... that was a joke, right?

Level 50-current

-Accessories to upgrade are very few. The few that exists range from 1.5 million to as high as 16 million for these levels.
-Regen ability from Dark Staff is a godsend.
-Cure potency from Light Staff saves MP and lives.

.... more to add later as I progress in levels and exp more.

[WishMaster3K]

50s were hard times. Whether it was Boyahda, Kuftal or Terrigan, it was always friggin Crabs for exp -.- By the time I moves

Stuff You probably already knew:
/BLM is your friend, and try doing Frost and Shock. If Frost procs, throw out Para and Slow asap b4 it wears. You probably already knew that, but I'm just reiterating the importance.

Food-wise, I think the best food would probably be Brain Stew. It's a 3hr for +5/+5 INT/MND, but I'm not sure about +hMP. Stick with Roast Mushrooms, and if you can spring for it, Witch Kabobs.

As you get higher and higher, marginal increases from stats become less important, and RDMs focus more on becoming the sum of all our parts. +hMP is one of the best things to look for in food. You've probably already realized that having a high Max MP is useless if you can't manage it. Another food option is Sweet Rice Cakes. Similar to Mushrooms, but for INT, and they are very cheap.

What accessories were you refering to? The only things you should really *need* are the Torques at 65.

After I got the AF Chest at 58, Enfeebling became easier. Also, it is around this level where it would be wise to do things like chaining VTs in Upper Delks tower. With an excess in Enfeebling+ and fighting VTs for fast chaining, you'll see a marked increase

[Aeni]

Stuff You probably already knew:
/BLM is your friend, and try doing Frost and Shock. If Frost procs, throw out Para and Slow asap b4 it wears. You probably already knew that, but I'm just reiterating the importance.

Whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah whoah -Peter Griffin from Family Guy

Hold on. I read somewhere that the elemental enfeebles like Frost and Burn ... they can, in some way, overwrite or replace one another, correct? I have main BLMs in PT that would start the fight throwing out Shock or Burn. Could you elaborate to me on ways of dealing with this issue?

Food-wise, I think the best food would probably be Brain Stew. It's a 3hr for +5/+5 INT/MND, but I'm not sure about +hMP. Stick with Roast Mushrooms, and if you can spring for it, Witch Kabobs.

I can craft my own witch kabobs, which is a plus. Got over two stacks saved up in the MH while I just sell of the roasted mushrooms. Brain Stew is unavailable and costs a lot. The disadvantage to it is if you die and lose that effect (3 hour food) which is "teh sux0rs." I'll try that out one day when I got more finances to play with or can bug a friend to make it for me.

As you get higher and higher, marginal increases from stats become less important, and RDMs focus more on becoming the sum of all our parts. +hMP is one of the best things to look for in food. You've probably already realized that having a high Max MP is useless if you can't manage it. Another food option is Sweet Rice Cakes. Similar to Mushrooms, but for INT, and they are very cheap.

On my server, Sweet Rice Cakes are almost non-existent and costs in the 100s of Ks. No joke -.-

What accessories were you refering to? The only things you should really *need* are the Torques at 65.

RSE2 or Penitent's Rope, etc. I'm going to quest that Promise Badge, which will be a nice replacement for my Holy Phial. Rings are pricey (HQ versions) or the MP+ kinds.

After I got the AF Chest at 58, Enfeebling became easier. Also, it is around this level where it would be wise to do things like chaining VTs in Upper Delks tower. With an excess in Enfeebling+ and fighting VTs for fast chaining, you'll see a marked increase

This is something I'll look foward to ^^ Thanks Wish! I wish more and more parties would just fight low ITs and chain them, but NOOOOO ... they want to see the 400+ exp number flash with exp ring on -_-;;

[WishMaster3K]

Firstly, I'm sorry you are even in possession of the Holy Phial. You have my condolences. The Promise Badge however, sorry for overlooking that. I'm glad I bought it when it was cheap, because no matter how I try to cut my gear and get some money, it always stays. Hmm. . .

And if you don't have it by the Torque levels, don't bother. You'd hardly use it for enfeebles, so it makes little signifigance. I'm still not sure if, with my enfeebling merits, switching to an all MND build would be more beneficial. Moving on. . .

I'm suprised you didn't know about the nature of Elemental Enfeebles. And I meant Shock, not Frost, sry.

Burn lowers the INT of a mob, making it easier to land other debufs like Frost and Shock. However, it's pointless, because if it fails, you have to wait for recast and you just wasted som MP. So I just forgo casting Burn.

Just like how the elements are stronger than one another, the Elemental Debuffs cancel. If I cast Frost on a mob, and I cast burn, I'll see Frost wear off. But since Frost is on, I can't recast Burn.

Burn > Frost > Choke > Rasp > Shock > Drown

You can have a max of 3 on at any given time: {Burn, Choke, Shock} & {Frost, Rasp, Drown}

Since spells like Drown (-STR), Rasp (-VIT), Choke (-DEX) are pretty negligable, cancelling out the bulk of the second group, I just cast Frost and Shock. Burn and Shock ban be put together to drop both INT and mND at the same time, so that's a good combo as well. But Frost helps out Tanks, so I usually just do that.

With Shock on, Para and Slow have a better chance of landing and procing. In addition, sucessful debuffs can raise your elemental magic for a fraction of what nuking costs, so that's a good way to raise that skill even outside the MB.

A BLM will never turn down the option of saving MP, so talking to them about trading Elemental Debuff duty should go well. Furthermore, their elemental skill should be fairly high. If you trade doing Blind or Poison for an Elemental Debuff, then both you and the BLM should be fine. Likewise, I let WHMs do DiaII, since it makes them feel special.

P. Rope and RSE2 are definately nice, and I suppose for the MP starved races, very necessary, but with +hMP and decent MP knowledge/management, you can forgo them. I'm Taru, so maybe I'm a bit biased towards MP gear in general, but the fact that I have a lot of MP didn't seem to matter.

Namely because my stats were lacking (Lowest MND in the game SUCKS for RDM ._.) and for the majority of my career, I'm rarely at Max MP, so I focused on different aspects.

I even have too dang much MP. Want some ._. I'm willing to give some out. If I go with all my MP gear, not even Zenith or anything, I get 900 MP EASY. But Errant has a nasty habit of dropping HP. A good equip that I'm loving is the Bomb Queen Ring >.> I guess I'll have to show you my Convert Gear also now.

Mithra are really balanced, so a RK Belt +1 will be fine, and at 71, you might be leaving on the Hierach Belt more often. I try to macro it out, but it gives like, +40 MP or something ridiculous like that, and I don't really miss the +2 to MND and INT from RKB+1

Sry to hear about SRK, because they are a high level synth. Fairly cheap tho, I farmed 5 stacks of Mugwort (or w/e the rare weed in Giddeus is) and gave it to a crafting friend of mine at 100k a stack. You can get like 11synths of SRK from 1 Mugwort, NQ, but it's a good lvling up food from 97+, I believe. Anyway, find a HL cook and talk to them, if you must ^^

[Aeni]

Firstly, I'm sorry you are even in possession of the Holy Phial. You have my condolences. The Promise Badge however, sorry for overlooking that. I'm glad I bought it when it was cheap, because no matter how I try to cut my gear and get some money, it always stays. Hmm. . .

Well, Holy Phial was cheap back then and I got it (Right in the crux of two major inflation periods on Hades ... we're in the middle of the third =_=;; ) It really is the best neck accessory until Promise Badge (The extra +mp, while very miniscule, has saved my life twice already and I can tell that story some other time)

I'm suprised you didn't know about the nature of Elemental Enfeebles. And I meant Shock, not Frost, sry.

Actually, I do know about the benefits, but was not sure about the precendental order of the spells (I assumed it was not the same as Ninjutsu wheeling for some reason >_>;; )

Since spells like Drown (-STR), Rasp (-VIT), Choke (-DEX) are pretty negligable, cancelling out the bulk of the second group, I just cast Frost and Shock. Burn and Shock ban be put together to drop both INT and mND at the same time, so that's a good combo as well. But Frost helps out Tanks, so I usually just do that.

Alright, I'll go and try that combination out. You'd be surprised at how little all the BLMs I've partied with up to this point know about this. They do cast elemental enfeebling, but at random and inconsistently on every monster. Which is why I hesitated to cast it on my own due to some BLM overwriting my cast (makes it a waste of MP)

A BLM will never turn down the option of saving MP, so talking to them about trading Elemental Debuff duty should go well. Furthermore, their elemental skill should be fairly high. If you trade doing Blind or Poison for an Elemental Debuff, then both you and the BLM should be fine. Likewise, I let WHMs do DiaII, since it makes them feel special.

Oh man, don't get me started on this. None of the BLMs and WHMs since 40 would want to talk with me about establishing the "order of business" as it were and things just get too complicated explaining this to JP players (I am not fluent in the language yet)

P. Rope and RSE2 are definately nice, and I suppose for the MP starved races, very necessary, but with +hMP and decent MP knowledge/management, you can forgo them. I'm Taru, so maybe I'm a bit biased towards MP gear in general, but the fact that I have a lot of MP didn't seem to matter.

Well, yes, I agree at times this may seem unnecessary. However, it all comes back to my MP pool. I could lay out this really wonderful plan centered around the monsters that my party is fighting and rely on the makeup of the party to see it through, but it almost always get scrapped after the first exp chain as I wallow in disgust at how much MP I end up burning through.

I even have too dang much MP. Want some ._. I'm willing to give some out. If I go with all my MP gear, not even Zenith or anything, I get 900 MP EASY. But Errant has a nasty habit of dropping HP. A good equip that I'm loving is the Bomb Queen Ring >.> I guess I'll have to show you my Convert Gear also now.

I suffer from the 2nd lowest MND I think ... IIRC. Supposedly in the middle of the road like Hume, but I can't help but think Humes got Mithras beat in the "balanced" stats department, as we were created solely for a couple of job classes that I can think of at the top of my head. >_<

Mithra are really balanced, so a RK Belt +1 will be fine, and at 71, you might be leaving on the Hierach Belt more often. I try to macro it out, but it gives like, +40 MP or something ridiculous like that, and I don't really miss the +2 to MND and INT from RKB+1

Okay, I was debating about this last night. I stalled for a bit and wondered whether or not getting the RK+1 was worth it. But the regular RK was 20K more so ... I'll go log on tonight to buy the RK+1 :)

Sry to hear about SRK, because they are a high level synth. Fairly cheap tho, I farmed 5 stacks of Mugwort (or w/e the rare weed in Giddeus is) and gave it to a crafting friend of mine at 100k a stack. You can get like 11synths of SRK from 1 Mugwort, NQ, but it's a good lvling up food from 97+, I believe. Anyway, find a HL cook and talk to them, if you must ^^

Yah, I guess because of that fact mugwort is really expensive. I'll go harvest it later this week as I have a friend with cooking in the high 90s (I only ever got my cooking as high as 60 because I couldn't figure out if I wanted to main in GS or Bone or that...)

Thanks again ^^