Myths and the Fantasy

[Fox Excalibur]

Well remembering a thread that briefly touched this topic, i would like to point out some myths and summons/creatures in the FF world. I will only list the few that come to mind right now, please add on to your knowledge.

Leviathen- A Hebrew myth of a Giant sea creature that is fish like and rules over all in the ocean.

Bahemoth- A Hebrew Myth of a Giant land creature that is gargantuan in size as well as the leviathen.

Not a whole lot is told about these creatures that i could find, but there is also another, not made into a FF creature/Summon, the Zuzu bird.

The hebrew myth is of a giant Land, Air, and Sea creature as you can see. Each of these creatures were unparralled in size, to degrees that are almost laughably large for no one to ever see them. The Zuzu bird's head was supposed to touch the sky when it stood (kinda hard to fly when your that large eh?) and once it was standing in the ocean, and since some men saw this, thew figured the water was shallow and drowned when talking near it (hmm a creature that big, and you think that its legs arent long as well?)

It is said that the Behemoth and the Leviathen will kill each other.

Originally when God made 2 of every creature he realized the leviathen and behemoth (and the zuzu i presume) were too strong, and if they populated would take over the world, so he destroyed thier mates.

its and intresting myth anyway


Oh let me tell you a story about the Fox that was so clever he tricked the great Leviathen ;)

See once man was expelled from the Garden of Eden, God sent the Angel of Death to toss one of every animal into the ocean to feed to the leviathen (why i forget... well myths dont need to have logic, thats why they are myths). Well when the Angel came to the fox, the fox was crying. The angel asked the fox what was wrong and the fox said
"my friend was cast into the ocean to drown" and pointed his reflection to the Angel, thus the angel was fooled into thinking he already killed a fox. The fox told this trick to the cat, and it worked as well.
Well after the folly of the Angel was heard of by the Leviathen, the Leviathen told his fish to bring him back the fox so he could eat his heart and gain his wisdom. so the fish came to the shore where the fox was. The fish told the fox that the leviathen wanted to meet with him to congradulate his victory, but the fox didnt buy this story. the fox told them,
"Once i enter the waters how will i know that you will not take me to the leviathen to be eaten?"
the fish replied that in reality the Leviathen was dieing and wanted to give all his power to the fox for his truimph. This idea of power appealed to the fox, and he started to walk into the shallow to the fish, as he enterd the water he got a bad feeling, so he told the fish then
"hey what is really going on here"
the fish replied "hah, we have tricked you, the leviathen wants us to bring you to him so he can eat your heart and gain your wisdom."
"ohhhhh. silly fish, if i had known that i would have brought my heart with me. Not many know that foxes keep thier hearts hidden in a safe place so that they will remain secure"
The fish then let him go back to land to retrive his heart. The fox then danced and laughed at the fish, mocking thier folly. The fish returned to the Leviathen, who gave up on the smart fox.




anyway that had little to do with the myths, but i have a thing for foxes :p



(oh also, i want to mention that these hebrew myths are not part of the Bible for any of you who dont know the Bible to well, and please lets not turn this into a relgiouse debate thread. Religiouse debates dont belong on these forums, and rarely do any good at all except raise tensions.

If this thread does become one, i plead the moderators will close it immedately)

lets see.....


well there is of course Odin and his 6 legged horse (in the myth its actually 8 legged)

most of you should know this myth for it is much wider known. Odin is the viking god of war. it would be hard to describe all the things for odin, ill let someone who knows more on the subject comment on it.


Bahamut and Tiamut come from myths as well, but i do not know them very well, they are Babelonian myths i can tell you. i have forgotten, and the two dont have alot to do with eachother in the myths.

Gilgamesh, ah yes, a Sumarian myth, Gilgamesh was a great warrior, demi-god i believe. I do not remember the specifics, but his story entaled a great flood that swept of Mesopetamia, and a woman if im correct.

Qeutzecotle, comes from central american myths. It was either Inca, Myan, or Aztec, i do not remember which. and i cant remember the specifics. It may have been the bird the aztecs were looking for to find were to make thier land. (they were sposed to see some sort of eagle or something...doing something...and thats where tehy were to make thier home....i forget the spefics here as well)

Ramuh, and Fenrir i beleive both come from myths as well, but i dont know them. anyway more of you comment on some other creature myths that make it into FF, thier story ect. and elaborate on mine if im forgetting something.

So please, if you know your historical myths and legends, join in and tell others.

[makkura]

that was an interesting read

thanks

as for gilgamesh, do a research and read his story, its really interesting.

i don't have time to tell you now or i'll be late for my movie (phone booth)

toodles

[Tsuko]

Indeed. Thanks..

I wonder, has Square ever used a summon that they created, other than Chocobos and Moogles? I can't seem to recall any..

[Chase]

the Final Aeon in ffxi it was a square creation

or yojimbo that may have also been origional
the magus sisters
there were a few in ff7 as well that is all i can think off now



if you think about it i am sure there are lots;)

[John Doe III]

Yes, I posted a topic similiar to this in another board I did all the summons...didn't get much replies though :(. But thanks for the interesting post.

[DarkHawk]

Yojimbo actually existed in japan. Not a specific person but as a title. Yojimbo were the bodygaurds assiained to protect important people.

[Kronosan]

Auron is mifune

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Chase
the Final Aeon in ffxi it was a square creation


Didn't you mean FFX?

Hey but what about the word Chocobo did that ever come from anything?

[Etra]

Wow, I didnt know any of the summons can from Hebrew myths. :sweat:

[Anaki]

i never heard that hebrew myth and i was forced to go to hebrew school for 7 years

EDIT: BAD spelling

[Macht]

Well I don't know the myth to well but I know Odin and Fenrir are from the same myth. Odin is the viking god of War and Knowledge (Equivalent to Zeus, from what is it the greek myths?, in many ways). And Fenrir is the Evil wolf counterpart to Odin (Something like God and Devil is how it's portrayed). Actually Ragnarock is from that to, it's the tale of the final battle. In that myth Odin and Fenrir (along with others forgot their names) have a devistating battle in which in the end Odin is Eaten by Fenrir and Fenrir latter dies from the serious wounds that Odin gave him.

[mechabomber]

Odin, Fenrir, and Ragnarok are all from Norse mythology.

[Dwimordene]

Shiva is a god from Hindu beliefs, and is part of the "Supreme Trinity" that represents divinity. This also includes Vishnu and Bhrama.

Siren is closely related to a Banshee, which is an Irish myth. The Banshee was a creature who would lure men to their deaths with her beautiful singing voice. Siren could also be related to "Siren of the Sea" which relates to a mermaid. They were also famous for luring sailors to their death by singing.

I recall the name "Ifrit" from a Turkish tale called "Ifrit, His Uncle and the Aga". In the tale, Ifrit was the son of a dervish and human woman. That's about all I can think of for Ifrit, unless there is some other tale involving that name..

In that myth Odin and Fenrir (along with others forgot their names) have a devistating battle in which in the end Odin is Eaten by Fenrir and Fenrir latter dies from the serious wounds that Odin gave him.


Actually, in the tale of Ragnarok, Odin's son Vidar killed Fenrir by ripping him in half by grabbing his jaws. :biggrin: Hence why Vidar is the god of vengeance and silence.



SOME OTHER COOL NORSE-RELATED FF NAMES:


Nidhogg - One of the dragon serpents in FFX. This relates to the Norse tale of a serpent that gnaws perpetually at the root of the World Tree.

Midgar (Midgard) - It's Midgard in the norse myth, but I thought that was too close to pass up. Midgard was a huge fortress built by the gods. Midgar is the huge city in FFVII.

[Huck]

I think Sirens actually came from Greek Mythology, they would lure sailors to their doom upon jagged rocks with their singing voices. (Odysius)

Siren is closely related to a Banshee, which is an Irish myth.

The Romans liked that tale, and acquired it from the Greeks.
Who settled Ireland? The Romans, so that's probbaly how it got there.

[Dwimordene]

LOL. Huck, I just posted that!

[Huck]

yea, i meant to put quotes on that
"Siren is closely related to a Banshee, which is an Irish myth."
I was just saying that it originated in Greece, and how it got to be Irish

[Dwimordene]

I knew that, but I didn't want to get THAT indepth. :biggrin:

[Fox Excalibur]

Originally posted by John Doe III
Yes, I posted a topic similiar to this in another board I did all the summons...didn't get much replies though :(. But thanks for the interesting post.

ack im sorry John i didnt realize :dead:

Sorry i havent replied in this thread since i started it (left for a retreat right after i posted, just got back)

yeah most the myths i knew (i remember Fenrir now, thanks for posting it, it was bugging me that the name was so familiar but i couldnt place it) I just couldnt think of them at the time to post them, but thats why i wanted others too :p also mostly cause i know even the ones i know there are alot more i didnt.

Anyway any others people know? (or want to expound on)

[Macht]

Sorry, you're right got it a little mixed up I know there's one group in that battle where the two killed eachother. Thinking maybe the two that had power over land and the one for the sea were the ones that killed eachother.

For Ifrit I actually learned from a person that knows the Kuran, in it Ifrit is a demon of fire.

[sonova]

unless i am mistaken
an ifrit is a kind of spirit in Middle eastern mythology similar to Djinns but more closely related to the elements and very very malicious

also bahamut was a winged serpent while tiamat was a landlocked serpent


original summons they have used = carbunkle

[Lushipur]

the three witches from ffiv and ffx are also fron greek mithology

they are the kindly one, the erinni (or eumenidi)

;)

[Fox Excalibur]

what 3 witches where those? (in the game and myth)

[Lushipur]

Originally posted by Fox Excalibur
what 3 witches where those? (in the game and myth)

i call 'em 3 witch cause they are :)

in the game they are the magus sister...in ffiv they are a boss and in ffx they are a summon

in the myth they are the erinni (or eumenidi)

sorry but i'm italian and just now i dont find the word to explain better why :p

[Genrou]

Shiva is one of the three gods in the Hindu religion which form the Trimurti. Brahma is the Creator, Vishnu is the Preserver, and Shiva is the Destroyer. Shiva is also a male in that religion.

The Masamune and Murasame are two magical swords in Japanese mythology. The Masamune represented good and the Murasame represented evil. The myth goes if you put the two swords in a river with leaves floating on top, the Masamune would allow the leaves to pass by, but the Murasame would destroy them. I'm not sure, but this is probably because of the actual sword-smith named Masamune who is known in Japan as the best sword-smith ever. He had a disciple named Muramasa who couldn't understand that swords were made to protect, not to kill. So his swords were said to be "evil" or something like that and/or could never be as good as Masamune's.

[Kane Isthara]

This is all extremly Educational! ^_^ And yes, Siren was part of greek Myths. I think that's where is originated. And Zeus, (The canon in the FF movie) Was also from Greek Myths. Zeus was the king of the gods, said to rule at the top of mount Olympus.

[Hisdon]

my god...Ifiret is an eferet...they are like djinns as someone said...they are both from the Arabian Nights...if you put a pic of an eferet and Iferit together, you'll see...they look alike...sound alike too.

Diablos is the devil in spanish, but that one is too simple :sweat:

[Fox Excalibur]

Thanks about the info on the Masamune Genrou i knew that Masamune was a fabled swordsmith in Japan whos works were sposed to be unrivlad, didnt know about the Murasame though.

And intresting about the Magus sisters Lushipur, i thought that was who you were refering to, but i wasnt sure. Whats the story surrounding them in the myth?

[Fox Excalibur]

(first sorry for the double post)

i found a site that tells about EVERY FF character/item/monster/summon name that has a legend to it.

Im gonna be late for class so i wont post it now, later today.

Oh also, Carbunkle turns out to be a legend too ;) and Moogle is a combonation of Japanese words taht means Mole and Bat wings.

[Fox Excalibur]

Tripple post look at me go (again sorry if this bugs anyone)

I just skipped half of my Japanese class and im back, so heres the link

http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/name.shtml

It isnt completely complete as there are some things i knew there was more info on then what they give, but they give more then plenty of instances of names and origens of characters/monsters/summons ect

[Dragoonknight]

gotta step in here romans traded with the inhabatants of ireland, but they were not the first to settle there, the celts were there and well settled before the romans ever discovered Erie, and by the legends of the celts there werent the first to settle there either. i could go on lol but this is about ff legends and not celtic mythos :p

[Fox Excalibur]

lol true, but go ahead and tell the story, I would love to hear it anyway.

[Lushipur]

Originally posted by Fox Excalibur
And intresting about the Magus sisters Lushipur, i thought that was who you were refering to, but i wasnt sure. Whats the story surrounding them in the myth?

here there is a link to a site where the myth is explained:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.i-2000net.it%2Fmitologia%2FEEE%2FErinni.htm&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=it&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

is translated with google so ;)

[Macht]

That was a nice website about the summons myths. Some elaborated more then what I ever heard about them, kind of surprised they didn't really show much about Sraphim. I actually found some detail in Catholic beliefs, the Sraphim or as it was changed to Seraph is an angel with wings that are so embroidled(misspelled) that they appear to have 3 pairs of wings.

Also Seraph is suppose to mean "To Burn with Passion" as in a passion for God. Actually that's part of the trait of Seraphs, they are suppose to be extreemly passionate about God. They are so passionate that they even stand below the throne of God and continually chant "Holy, Holy, Holy".

Also I think it is in Jewish belief too, but a Seraph was seen more as something evil. Website I had found once mentioned something about them being the ones that actually punished the Jews for something (Can't remember that one to well).

Even intresting as well in Post-Christian belief Seraph was actually detailed in two different ways. One was that it was a being with 3 pairs of wings and each controlled an element or power of the world (Before Lucifers betrail). Intresting though that Lucifer was suppose to have the power of Death and Music. The Second details a Seraph as a serpent like creature with 3 pairs of wings (Sounded very similar to a Dragon when I first heard it).

Anyway I'll see if I can find the websites I got this info from, it's been a while since I looked at that so I couldn't really detail it as well as those websites had shown.

[Rodin]

Yes, quetzacoatl is an Aztec deity. He is the creator of all of humanity and god of the sun. The myth has it that he used to live among the Aztecs, but then he had to go to a far off place. When Hernan Cortez came to the Yucutan Penninsula, the Aztecs thought that quetzacoatl had returned. He used this to live among them, and eventually destroy them.

[Varo]

Originally posted by Genrou
The Masamune and Murasame are two magical swords in Japanese mythology. The Masamune represented good and the Murasame represented evil. The myth goes if you put the two swords in a river with leaves floating on top, the Masamune would allow the leaves to pass by, but the Murasame would destroy them. I'm not sure, but this is probably because of the actual sword-smith named Masamune who is known in Japan as the best sword-smith ever. He had a disciple named Muramasa who couldn't understand that swords were made to protect, not to kill. So his swords were said to be "evil" or something like that and/or could never be as good as Masamune's.

Wow, very interesting stuff. I think i'd like to take a course on japanese history in college.:spin: