Luxury Goods That We Need?

[Aeni]

Just trying to gauge community opinions about luxury goods that seem to be important for players in every job class.

For example, Life Belt would be considered important for many melee job classes and they are not too expensive. But it's been argued that some luxury items, like a Haubergeon for a DRK, is important or at least shows serious dedication to that job class.

I'm wondering if there's anything similar for RDMs? The only reason why I ask is that it seems that almost every RDM at some point in their 60s and 70s are sporting VCs. Even those that are not in "end game" LS.

Another of these kinds of items is the joyeaux sword. Considered one of the best melee weapons for a RDM, although it has a rare/ex value attached to it.

Would the community consider these things as important? Or how significant would the depreciation of the job be without these and other similar items? Here are other items I can list that are considered luxury (But by no means is this an exhaustive list)

Enfeebling Torque
Vermillion Cloak
Enhancing Sword
Joyeaux Sword
etc.

I'm sure there's a lot of others, but I'm coming from a melee background (mostly) so, many high level mage stuff didn't interest me before or I have no prior knowledge of.

Anyway, the point to all this is me making some decision in which I might have to sell many stuff on one character just to equip my other character. Well, that is the price to pay for having two characters, but I think the problem would still be the same even on one character with multiple jobs.

[Jei]

in your list i would say enfeeble torque is the most important. definitely get it.

second would be V cloak. While it's not absolute neccesary, it definitely helps.
Eventually you can replace the V cloak with AF2 hat. And if you somehow get a hand on zinette's body, you can get a total of 2 free mp per tick, which makes it 5 per tick with refresh. sounds cool isn't it xD
It also helps a lot when soloing easy mobs. I just keep V cloak on for easy MP when i farm for coffer keys or the like.

I have joyeuse and I love it. It's fun, it's fast, and the proc rate is amazing. It is not important for PT play however so no need to rush to get this thing. for PT you'll be using elemental staffs. Wind, earth, ice, dark and light staffs will used more often that the rest.

Fast cast gears are great. For example refresh, macro your AF1 hat on everytime you cast refresh and it will reduce recast time from 16 to 15 seconds. Adds AF2 body and it will reduce 1 more second. Make refresh cycle a lot faster and easier to do without having to haste yourself.

Moldavite earring is a popular one. Check it out
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/2093

Phantom Tathlum seems to be another popular throwing item for mages. but there's other things too.
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/list.php?weapon=Throwing-Ammo

Some other things are MND and INT. Our primary debuff spells are based on MND. INT can also be very important when you're kiting stuff with gravity.
Apart from rings, the errant set is great for mnd+int. :thumbsup:

[TheGrandMom]

Enfeebling Torque is a must. I just don't think you can get past having one of those.

I have a Verm's but used it rarely at those lvls. In exp pts, I was too busy casting to keep it on. Other body pieces were more important and were macro'd into my spells. IF I did get a chance to rest, then yes it was immediately equipped. Now when I go meriting in nin burns, melee burns, or mana burns, I do wear it nearly all the time because my enfeebles stick without swapping equips.

Swords are only for the very rich or lucky. I do not melee and I do not advocate meleeing, so a high end sword for exping is worthless to me. My spells have staves macro'd in so it would only be for looks. Besides, I prefer a dagger. (But Joyeuse is sweet!)

Genbu's Shield is free and sweet. Once you start killing Gods, make sure your in line to get one. Sexay little shield to use when solo'ing!

Moldavite Earring, as Jei said, is a very sweet piece of equip and free! I highly recommend getting ahold of one.

As far as a phantom thalum, I won't waste my money for 5 more mp. I use a morion thalum and I'm quite content. The same int and thats what I'm wearing it for anyways. I mean 5 mp is not going to save your pt if you need mp. LOL

Serket Ring is very very nice but again not totally necessary. If one day you get awarded one it will be sweet but I don't think I would go running out to buy one.

I'm a fan of the Penitant's Rope and I don't know about your server but on mine, the price went through the roof! But this can be obtained in a bcnm battle so if you had some generous friends/lsmates, I would recommend getting it.

I have crimson and zenith gear but I'm woefully missing Duelist's and Wise gear. I guess because I'm asked to come whm more than rdm even though I love rdm the most. I would rather have Sorcerer's gear than Cleric's but I have a feeling thats not going to happen either. /sigh

[Karinya]

Enfeebling torque - it's nice, but you don't *need* it; spider torque is perfectly adequate and depending on your server, possibly much cheaper (or you can camp Dune Widow yourself). BCNM60 loot, so you might be able to get it yourself instead of buying it, as well.

Vermilion cloak - a poor choice for RDM in party play, IMO. When casting you will get much more out of AF/AF2 head and body, when resting, errant houppelande (or af+1 body if you have it). I suppose it would be slightly useful at the levels where you can't wear errant yet, but really, the effect of 1/tick refresh is not that great even if you have it all the time; if you have it only a small fraction of the time it's even less. If it was cheap, I'd probably recommend getting it until you can replace it with errant, but at the price tag it actually has... it's not really a priority.

Solo may be another matter - I noticed a lot of soloing became a lot easier when I got Duelist's Chapeau - but I'd hardly recommend buying something so expensive just to solo. Anyway, you may get more benefit from the ogre set or Cardinal/Narasimha's vest as solo gear, depending on your solo style.

Enhancing sword - never had one, never felt I needed one. Swords are mainly solo gear for a RDM, there are only a few party situations where you may want one (e.g. farming Aura Pots for Ro'Maeve water). Therefore they are basically all luxury items - and luxury, by definition, means unnecessary.

Joyeuse - it's very nice for solo; the double attack increases your overall damage, tp gain, and does double en-spell damage too. You will probably use it only rarely for exp/Dynamis/HNM, though, even if you have it (e.g. one precharged Spirits Within and then switch to staffs).

Moldavite earring is nice, it's rare/ex from an nm goblin in Onzozo. You can kill it with a 50ish party if they're well organized, or a couple of 60s, or a 70+ can solo.

Master caster's bracelets are a rare/ex Windurstian conquest item, but I think they can also be gotten by people of other nations under the right conditions (your nation in 1st, Windurst in 2nd, I think). You will need to be rank 7 or 8 though. In areas outside your own nation's control they have +7 elemental and enfeebling magic - very useful. Many people don't use their conquest points much so it is like getting them for free.

Penitent's rope is not bad, but I wouldn't call it necessary (well, I guess that's obvious since many RDMs got to 75 before it even existed). I did get it when it dropped to 2M on Carby though - the -enmity is handy in Dynamis, although you'll probably never need it in exp. The extra int and mnd doesn't seem to make much difference from Royal Knight's belt or RSE belts, or even Hierarch (which you should probably get to swap in for resting, but it can scarcely be considered a luxury item at such a low price).

HQ staves - I don't have any of these yet, so I can't really comment on their effectiveness. They certainly aren't *necessary*, but they might be the best place for a RDM to spend extra money if they have it.

Ultimately, most of the really great RDM gear is rare/ex - AF, AF2, Crimson (some pieces), Nashira, etc. This can mean that you spend a long time at 75 feeling frustrated because you can't get the great gear some other RDMs have, but at least it spares your virtual wallet.

[TheGrandMom]

I disagree on the enfeebling torque. I had a spiders torque for quite a while and I noticed a significant difference between the two.

[Aeni]

Thanks for the replies. TGM, it's good and dandy at 70+ and once you're in an end-game shell, but I only have a small social shell with 3 good friends: 1 RDM 75, 1 WHM 70 and 1 PLD 73. It's not nearly enough to obtain all the stuff you own :P Hence, me being forced into a buying situation, which is fine by me, but just takes time (Crafting and Fishing are my two best money makers with the occassional farming runs for obscure and expensive items)

Karinya, that's pretty hawt stuff there! It's a load off my shoulders, because I've been trying to figure out a way to come up with 50+ million gils for everything -- before the prices shoot up again =_=;;

[Taskmage]

Master Caster's Bracelets *drool* Thanks for pointing those out. Those were totally off my radar.

[TheGrandMom]

Aeni, you can get it from bcnm. Just get your friends together and let them know you need it. See if they will agree for you to be able to get the torque but not get a cut on anything else. If not, then just do a few bcnm's and you should be able to have the gil soon to buy it. Same for Penitants Rope, it just takes some time and planning is all. I recommend getting both before endgame because your so busy with events and helping the ls in endgame that its harder to have the time to do the bcnms for the gil/items. Good luck!

[BurningPanther]

Dalmatica(+1) and Chasuble(+1) are on my personal wish list, as well as a Rainbow(Prism) Cape. I wanna get a Wise Braconi(+1), and with that gear alone, I can free up some space in my inventory, seeing as how the M.Acc bonuses can replace some of the accessories I carry.

While not really useful in party settings, I have a love jones for the Enhancing sword. Joyeuse is nice and all, but Enhancing sword just compliments our skills.

[Jei]

of course other gears are better for actually casting spells. But after those spells it never hurt to macro V cloak back on. And in my point of view, there are pells that don't benefit enough from gear for me to want to take VC off, like cure, haste, blink (the -enmity from errant is nice for cure. But unless I'm up against gods, I rarely ever pull hate by curing at all)
Before I got myself the V cloak there are often times when I run out of MP sooner than convert recast time. especially with 4 or more ppl to refresh, VC gives that little buffer MP enough to keep me going until convert is ready.
Of course VC will be obsolete with hat AF2 but getting that hat will take some time :( I've been to Xaca dynamis since last year and still haven't got one...

Just by nature of this game, we'll be busy, yes, but not every seconds of the battle. There are always short moments here and there during battle that we get to relax a little bit. Not long enough to rest for MP but long enough to get a few tick from VC. Combine these fraction of times together through out the battle and it's not bad at all.

For some other long events like dynamis sometimes I don't get to cast anything much especially if I'm not in the main alliance. I can keep going on for hours without my mp running low at all with V cloak.

For HQ staffs, I would go for wind first. And then ice, and then earth. I personally value silence and gravity more than other debuffs.

[tdh]

Enfeebling Torque > I think this is a must. I had this and the Spider Torque. Spider Torque cost me 2mil, Enfeebling Torque cost me 3.3mil. (Spider has since dropped to 1.4mil on Lakshmi I believe.) I noticed a difference as well. From having a helluva time getting Silence to stick at Lv.63, having a better time, but having to try 2 times to get it to stick at Lv.64, to almost 90% success at Lv.65. Those Gobbys in the Bay must have nightmares about Odude. lol

Enhancing Sword > I think this is a completely luxury. I don't know anybody that has one, and has toyed with it. However I've done almost all of my Sword and Dagger Skill Ups solo. The Buzzard Tuck has done me well. Helped me learn Vorpal Blade. (Which I'm in love with by the way. Lots of farming as RDM/DRK now.)

Joyeuse > I want! I want! I want! It's not required, since I haven't meleed since Lv.30, and I'm not about to start. However... having said that, there are missions, there are Coffer camping, there's just fun smacking something with a Sword. The Joytoy will fill those sessions quite nicely.

Vermillion Cloak > I used to want this. Even though I hear TGM and Jei talk about it, AF1 Body would always be on. So I can't see spending the 15mil I think it costs on my server. If I ever seriously level SMN, I'll get one. And unless the items required to make it just happen to fall into my lap, I won't pick one of these up. (Of course something may change, and this may become more attractive to me. But at this point I'd say no.)

Moldavite Earring > Profblix is getting on my damn nerves. I've been camping this thing like crazy the past 3 weeks. I want this before I go zap that Old Fart's curls out. That Magic Attack Bonus will come in hand BIG time!

HQ Staves > Some say that a RDM doesn't even need ALL of the Staves. I have all the NQ staves, and I want all of the HQ staves. It's just an issue of raising the gil. As usual, Jei said it best:

For HQ staffs, I would go for wind first. And then ice, and then earth. I personally value silence and gravity more than other debuffs.I don't really see a point in the HQ Light staff for RDM, other than to just complete the set. lol If it had Cure +15% on the HQ that would help big time, but as it is I don't see it's usefulness for RDM.

Suggestion: Every RDM should get a Hornetneedle and a level it. I have one, and I love it. I've only stopped using it as of late because I'm having so much fun using Souleater + Vorpal Blade. (870dmg as my record.) But Haste + Hornetneedle + Enthunder is an amazing thing. In a Skill Up, I actually had Haste + Double March, and I was attacking so fast it looked like a RDM 100 Fisted with a Dagger, I just never stopped attacking. Damage isn't bad either, about 20dmg from Dagger, and then 15~19dmg Enthunder on EP Crabs. ~40dmg a volley, and I can attack about 2.6 times per Sword swing.

[Dragonsword]

Your home naton has to be Windurst for you to get the master caster's bracelet. Despite this item will appear for Windurst citizen when Windy is 2nd place or up in conquest. The bracelet is not offered for sale to foreigners (i.e. from Sandy or Bastok) instead the master caster's mitts is offered.

[Aeni]

TGM, There's only 3 other people who I'd trust in a 6-man BC besides myself =/ I'm sorry, but Hades is swimming with crooks left and right, one of the many reasons these players emigrated from their servers the past two world shifts.

TDH, excellent guide :) Even if I'm not there yet, I like to plan things ahead of time, since it allows me to work out a path where I will always have proper funding for the spells and equipment I need as I level into them. I've prided in being self-sufficient and part of the reason I look up to this RDM friend of mine (Who has a suite of high end gear and stuff accumulated over the years thanks to her insanely high clothcrafting and knack for getting gil contracts (e.g., work for hire like escort or missions)

[BurningPanther]

Aeni, what race are you? At higher levels, I'd suggest putting perhaps Astral or Ether rings in your inventory on a more permanent basis. The reason I ask your race was because I find that the level 65+ spells you acquire can start to become rather draining(for me, as a hume, anyway), but I figure that if you perhaps Tarutaru, this might not be as big a problem.

[Aeni]

Aeni, what race are you? At higher levels, I'd suggest putting perhaps Astral or Ether rings in your inventory on a more permanent basis. The reason I ask your race was because I find that the level 65+ spells you acquire can start to become rather draining(for me, as a hume, anyway), but I figure that if you perhaps Tarutaru, this might not be as big a problem.

Mithra. I have a taru BLM. But that's on Middie. =.=

I chose mithra, because I actually wanted to be a NIN. Instead, I ended up deciding on RDM. Sigh.

[BurningPanther]

You DO realize you can still be NIN, right? =P And it makes for the bitchin'est solo-RDM subjob at endgame. I've heard legends of lone RDM/NINs completely VIOLATING notorious monsters left and right on my server. I even sat and watched as one soloed Ungur in 20-30 minutes, then went on to duo Bune ten minutes later.

But all things considered, Mithra is still an excellent choice for RDM, whether meleeing or casting.

[Taskmage]

Every race has strength and weaknesses. On a job as well rounded as rdm it's hard to make a bad choice. As a taru, my low mnd stat gives me fits sometimes, so that just goes to show there's no one "best."

[TheGrandMom]

I've done rdm on every race but Galka. (My husband did Galka and was too frustrated with the mp pool.) But MY choice for rdm is taru. Second choice would be mithra, third would be hume, and last would be elvaan. I did 2 mithra rdm's, one taru and one elvaan. (Yes rdm is my favorite job!)

[Aeni]

I've done rdm on every race but Galka. (My husband did Galka and was too frustrated with the mp pool.) But MY choice for rdm is taru. Second choice would be mithra, third would be hume, and last would be elvaan. I did 2 mithra rdm's, one taru and one elvaan. (Yes rdm is my favorite job!)

You know, I'd never would've thought this, but ...

I LOVE mage jobs. I've falled in love with WHM as well. Why? I don't know! I'm being honest here.

In the past, I shied away from mage jobs, particularly healing class, because I was afraid I would suck at it. I felt if I had to be responsible for the well being of fellow party members, I'd have to live up to their expectations and I didn't like working under pressure.

To my pleasant surprise, I actually like working under pressure. >.> The more hectic the pace and frantic the battles, the better it gets. For example, in a JP party on Saturday night out near the Yuhtunga Outpost leveling off of Goblin Furriers, the tarutaru ninja was down to 23 hp even after I frantically reeled off a DS+Cure II bomb and I didn't have quite enough mp for another Cure II. So I bene'd, hoping that the Furrier was near death (He was) The ninja was very appreciative, because he leveled on that monster. Had he died, that would've been all too frustrating, even for a tank (Knowing that your level up was coming up and you were anticipating this)

RDM is also fun. Fun, fun, fun. What's probably more fun is seeing enfeebling stick 85% of the time on exp mobs like Goblin Smithies, help with curing duties and being able to stick MBs in the absence of a BLM (I was leveling RDM before WHM on the same day with another party)

Even with all that, I still want to get out of Elshimo really really badly. =_=;;

[tdh]

I'm an Elvaan RDM. So I have insane MND, but not so great MP. However, I've spent gil, so I have almost 700MP at Lv.70. I have about 1100HP, so not close to the beloved 1:1 ratio. I have gear to add on MND/INT+25, I'd like to be around +30, but it's MP I wish I had more of. I like being able to MB for 500+dmg when I can, more MP would help me do that some more.

I've leveled a lot of jobs, but I'm "a mage at heart." I say that, but I really dislike WHM. I just can't wrap my heart around that job. I enjoy BLM, I LOVE RDM, BRD can be enjoyable. And once I get Diabolos, (and/or the new Avatars going to be released next month.) I'll start leveling SMN. I knew as soon as I heard anything about the game, I wanted to be a RDM. I've never regretted that decision!

[Jei]

I'm a taru with more INT than MND. But I like Whm, I enjoy keeping ppl alive ^^ I can't stand playing Blm much, I got really sleepy levelling up my blm.
As you can guess I don't MB much with my Rdm. Do it only rarely when I'm really free. ^^;
As a taru, Rdm/Whm gives me close to 1:1 ratio. Rdm/blm gives me a lot more MP than HP. I really like /whm for normal PT play no matter what kind of mob we're going against.

[Khidir]

As you get higher lv you tend to need more of int earrings than trying to balance mnd and int since whms will easily outperform you

Moldy earring

Hq staves

[Susurrus]

Tamas Ring is AWESOME for any mage. At level 75 you get 5INT, 5MND, 30MP, and Enmity-3. (Level 30 gets 2INT, 2MND, 15MP, Enmity-3; anything that is different between 30 and 75 raises as you level). http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/7093 I think this is one of my favorite pieces of gear that I've obtained. Definately get this if you can finish Chains of Promathia.

[locus]

RDM Equipment list:
Needed: None. Unless you're an elvaan or galka, in which case, sell your soul for -hp +mp.

Enfeebling torque is never necessary for an experience party. I personally run around with an Uggalepih or a gold republican medal. RDM has A+ in Enfeebling magic, after getting your AF body and NQ staves, anything that is likely to resist you on a regular basis is either 1) a HNM or 2) Something you shouldn't be exping on 3) Resistant or immune. Yes you can land sleep 2 on Ahriman. No, it's not worth the MP trying.

If you must choose between staves:
For Exp: Dark = Light > Ice = Wind > Thunder > Fire. Water is a waste of money.

[BurningPanther]

As far as luxuries, go for all the staves, in particular the HQ versions. The water staff is actually usefull, unless for some reason you dislike casting Poison, Drown, Water, or Aquaveil. Actually, fire is the staff with the fewest applications, being good for Barblizzard/Paralyze, Fire spells, and Burn. Though I still wouldn't give it up.

After 72, we get a floodgate of new gear options opened up to us. At this point, I've mostly stopped bothering with INT/MND+ items, seeing as how the Wise and Errant sets give us MORE than enough. As far as those sets, the only part I don't have are the Wise/Errant feet and head, which I leave out for space reasons, and can honestly do without. With the INT/MND boosts given between Wise, Errant, and Warlock sets, I mostly focus on +MP and +Skill Accessories. I've mothballed all but three of my +Skill earrings, kept all the torques, and keep Astral and Ether rings on at all times(Astral to be replaced by Tamas once if I ever finish CoP). Prism cape, Phantom tathlum, and Phantom earring +1 add decent MP as well, in addition to generous INT and MND.

And the Pimp Hat stays on my head, no exceptions.

[Icemage]

I'd rate the overall usefulness in RDM XP:

Dark = Ice = Earth > Light = Wind > Thunder > Fire > Water.

Light is nice, but doesn't seem nearly so critical to me as Ice or Earth are for sticking Slow and Paralyze.

Agree with the rest of Locus' post though. There's some nice stuff out there that you can buy, but nothing else is really going to spectacularly impact your performance in an XP party (with possibly the exception of a Vermillion Cloak, if used properly).


Icemage

[locus]

As far as luxuries, go for all the staves, in particular the HQ versions. The water staff is actually usefull, unless for some reason you dislike casting Poison, Drown, Water, or Aquaveil. Actually, fire is the staff with the fewest applications, being good for Barblizzard/Paralyze, Fire spells, and Burn. Though I still wouldn't give it up.

Very clever post, except it's wrong.
-Equipping a water staff does NOT increase the effectiveness of aquaveil, in the same way that equipping an earth staff does NOTHING for stoneskin.

-Poison is a waste of MP and also a short duration DoT on exp monsters (IT). It will generally last no longer than 60 seconds at most on IT monsters and do 10 damage/3sec, which means you've done 200 damage for 34 mp. This sounds like a good deal except I'd rather be refresh chaining, hasting or healing someone with that mp, and if I wanted to do 200 damage, I wouldn't plan to do it with a spell over the course of 1 minute. I'd rather just stab the monster with a sword.

-When you can MB water, it's almost always a better idea to MB ice. It's more mp efficient, Ice staff has a int AND elemental skill boost on it (RDM has worse elemental skill than DRK, as a FYI.) Ice is THE element for rdm nuking. If you're using a reverberation skillchain instead of distortion, don't bother MBing.

-Drown is stupid, especially with a ninja tank. The fastest way to mitigate damage in an exp party is to get a dead monster. Burn and Choke. Even more amusing is that Drown is an elemental magic spell, so the elemental skill on Ice staff will help it stick (more reliably than a NQ water staff, might I add).

Icemage likes Earth and Ice, and very nice staves they are, but I like Light staff more, because it increases your cure efficiency and therefore your convert efficiency. Nevertheless, Ice is really a very important staff.

Disagree about Earth though - Slow isn't really a great spell except for ninja tanks, which ideally should bring their own slow with them. It's useful, but definitely not stellar, in the way paralyze is. I'd take 10% more powerful cures anyday, but that's just a preference. This is because I love using Curaga a lot and Curaga is a spell which gets massive efficiency bonuses from cure power.

Quick summary of the other staves:

Wind: There's a few reasons the HQ staff is so expensive, other than the maat fight.
-A resisted silence is likely to end up REALLY hurting. On the other hand, a resisted slow isn't likely to kill anyone.
-Gravity is a very very very very very very very very good spell.
-Choke is one of the better elemental debuffs.

I'd rate Wind over Earth any day. In my list, Earth should be just behind wind and before Fire.

Fire: Burn. Go read my post on INT and resist rates for black magic. This, unfortunately, is the only use for a fire staff (and pretty much means whee, I subbed blm and I want to do damage!). But Burn is one of the best of the elemental debuffs for a reason - it drops your resist rate on elemental magic to acceptable levels. (For RDM, elemental nuking is rarely efficient because of the aforesaid skill problem)

[Jei]

I give pirority like this
wind > dark = earth = ice > anything else.

And by this priority, I mean priority to get the HQ. Because IMO if you're a smn, blm or rdm, it's just so normal to have all the NQ version which corresponds to the spells you commonly use anyway. There's no reason to not have NQ ice earth wind dark light for Rdm for example. But which one should you get the HQ I go by my list above.

Sticking silence can mean life or death > I give wind top priority. Altho you don't use it every battle, when you use it you want it to stick.

Sticking sleep again can also mean the life or death.

paralyze + slow are like the standard debuff. I personally like slow much more than paralyze, but either way these are good to be able to stick without too many tries regardless of which you favour more.

Since bind is ice base, ice staff seem to have a good use here too.

I didn't give light any priorities because I assume we should have the NQ at hand already. And for the most part, except if you want to summon carbuncle, the NQ is fine.

[Taskmage]

I disagree on Poison. It's a good way for a rdm to contribute a meaningful amount of damage at a price that's very efficient compared to elemental magic. I often sneak it in as a 2nd MB on Distortion, which is very easy to time due to its very fast cast speed. Just use discretion when using it. If your pt is skillchaining towards the end of the fight then obviously bursting it isn't going to be a good use of your mp, and if you're running a little short on your Convert cycle then you might want to skip it.

That doesn't make the Water Staff much more useful, but I'd rate it above Fire at least.

[Aeni]

Good posts. I have a better picture now of what I need down the road for my RDM. I *might* consider trading in Ali's SH for a VC on Akemie, but not sure about that decision yet. For a mithra, a friend recommended River Gaiters, but I'll have to gather up people willing to help me with the BC that drops it.

The torques are probably one of those luxury items that I'll just have to buy. I could possibly camp Dune Widow for one of those torques, but the RMTs are there 24/7 (I think there's a bot in place similar to the one in Davoi that has 7 Jujitsu Gis for sale in bazaar)

I disagree on Poison. It's a good way for a rdm to contribute a meaningful amount of damage at a price that's very efficient compared to elemental magic. I often sneak it in as a 2nd MB on Distortion, which is very easy to time due to its very fast cast speed. Just use discretion when using it. If your pt is skillchaining towards the end of the fight then obviously bursting it isn't going to be a good use of your mp, and if you're running a little short on your Convert cycle then you might want to skip it.

That doesn't make the Water Staff much more useful, but I'd rate it above Fire at least.

I agree with Taskmage. With a PLD tank, Poison II and Bio II are so good. 400-500 damage in that one minute is just that ... 400-500 dmg. To get that, I'd have to nuke 3 tier II spells and that consumes 200 mp. Not a good effacy on MP, something we RDM would have to deal with.

The key I had found out recently is timing with the RDM. That means deciding which spells to blow your mp now and which spells will get you the most bang for the buck. If all we had were spells that had to be used immediately, refresh wouldn't be able to do shit for us. We'd need Refresh VIII to keep up with that kind of spell casting (wastage)

[BurningPanther]

Are you judging effectiveness by duration or by actual effect? Water(or Neptune's staff) does actualy decrease the spell interruption rate, as does Earth(or Terra's) does increase in the damage absorbed by Stoneskin... albeit by a small amount for both. I've learned that there is just about nothing you can do to increase the duration of enhancing spells, though i wish I could.

Poison to stays on my list of "spells to hit the mob with" in exp parties. Maybe it's because of my gear(and Neptune's staff ;), but it lasts a good long while, and is usually the last spell I'll have to recast. I can work it in just fine with Refreshing, hasting, enfeebling, and even buffing myself, and trust it a whole lot better than noodle-armed meleeing.

Sure, there are better spells to MB with, but sometimes the SC just doesn't call for Ice, Fire or Thunder. Sometimes, you just have MP for Water and Stone 3. I was glad to have Water 3(and Neptune's staff), in my Maat fight for alternating Aero/Water 3. I know what spells to use on a skillchain, but sometimes, you just don't have the right skillchain for certain spells.

I agree, Drown is lame, but if it sticks...

I have Apollo's and Terra's staff, so I no longer have to dabate over which is more necessary(though you are right that the Light staff is the priority). Slow is excellent, and even more excellent when you have the MND to back it up, and downright amusing when you see the NIN's Hojo get resisted.

I agree completely with the use of Burn, and love it's worth in parties(remember that I said Fire staff had the most limited uses, but I still wouldn't give it up). Though I'll never nuke on par with a BLM, it seems my elemental enfeebs tend to stick a whole lot better than theirs, though I can't imagine why.

[Icemage]

I should explain why I'm not as thrilled with Light Staff for RDM.

I normally toss one Cure IV after Convert, then use Regen to bump my HP back to max. Regen is much more efficient, and I've got 10 minutes between Converts, which means the +10% on Cure IV represents only a small fraction of the MP I spend every 10 minute cycle.

With an Earth Staff or Ice Staff, I save both time and MP by avoiding recasts on Slow and Paralyze - I really, really despise having to recast these in mid-battle.

For me, the MP saved from one less half-resisted or fully resisted Slow(15MP) is greater than the MP saved from the +10% Cure of a Light Staff (8.8MP saved on Cure IV).

Ice Staff saves less MP on Paralyze (7MP), but also improves the most common nuking element (Ice) in a very visible and useful way, and serves as a better-than-nothing staff to use when casting nukes on any element except Wind (since we're discussing cases where you must choose which staves to own).

In addition, having Slow or Paralyze in effect means the monster is dealing damage more slowly, which in turn saves MP in the long run.

EDIT: To respond to BurningPanther's post:


Water(or Neptune's staff) does actualy decrease the spell interruption rate, as does Earth(or Terra's) does increase in the damage absorbed by Stoneskin... albeit by a small amount for both. I've learned that there is just about nothing you can do to increase the duration of enhancing spells, though i wish I could.

(1) Since when does spell interruption ever come into play for RDMs in a party?

(2) Stoneskin damage absorption is NOT, I repeat, NOT affected by Earth/Terra Staff. The only factors there are Enhancing Magic, MND, and Stone Gorget(if you have one).


Poison to stays on my list of "spells to hit the mob with" in exp parties. Maybe it's because of my gear(and Neptune's staff , but it lasts a good long while, and is usually the last spell I'll have to recast. I can work it in just fine with Refreshing, hasting, enfeebling, and even buffing myself, and trust it a whole lot better than noodle-armed meleeing.

Sure, there are better spells to MB with, but sometimes the SC just doesn't call for Ice, Fire or Thunder. Sometimes, you just have MP for Water and Stone 3. I was glad to have Water 3(and Neptune's staff), in my Maat fight for alternating Aero/Water 3. I know what spells to use on a skillchain, but sometimes, you just don't have the right skillchain for certain spells.


Poison II and Water II have their place when you're XPing versus Raptors (Valley of Sorrows, Kuftal Tunnel). Still pretty situational though, and definitely lowest on the priority list.


I have Apollo's and Terra's staff, so I no longer have to dabate over which is more necessary(though you are right that the Light staff is the priority). Slow is excellent, and even more excellent when you have the MND to back it up, and downright amusing when you see the NIN's Hojo get resisted.


See my comments above about why I think Earth Staff is somewhat more important than Light Staff.


I agree completely with the use of Burn, and love it's worth in parties(remember that I said Fire staff had the most limited uses, but I still wouldn't give it up). Though I'll never nuke on par with a BLM, it seems my elemental enfeebs tend to stick a whole lot better than theirs, though I can't imagine why.


Burn is OK. Our nuking damage isn't so amazing as to be worth boosting via Burn by itself, but if it helps the BLM, then sure. Usually I use Fire Staff to land Fire II on a Fusion magic burst (or for higher level RDMs, Fire III on Light at some level ranges). Again, like Water, it isn't really a priority.


Icemage

[Aeni]

I should explain why I'm not as thrilled with Light Staff for RDM.

I normally toss one Cure IV after Convert, then use Regen to bump my HP back to max. Regen is much more efficient, and I've got 10 minutes between Converts, which means the +10% on Cure IV represents only a small fraction of the MP I spend every 10 minute cycle.

Not to be a "racist" but Taru's don't have very much HP to begin with so that a Cure IV + regen can cure plenty. Plus you have tons of MP ... so 2 Cure IVs are a drop in the bucket...

I'm only level 50 but a Cure IV and I'm still in orange. www Regen only returns ... what ... 100 hp? 120 hp? That's over time... I usually can get buy if a WHM is in the PT with Regen II however...

[Taskmage]

I think Regen I is 100 hp in one minute. You won't really need the hp for ten minutes anyway, so the fact it's over time doesn't matter so much.

I find that if I watch the clock I can usually sneak in a tick of rest between pulls/refresh cycles. Throwing in a few Drains makes up the rest.

[Aeni]

I think Regen I is 100 hp in one minute. You won't really need the hp for ten minutes anyway, so the fact it's over time doesn't matter so much.

I find that if I watch the clock I can usually sneak in a tick of rest between pulls/refresh cycles. Throwing in a few Drains makes up the rest.

Oh trust me ... if you fight undead ... you need it back. One critical Blood Saber move and it's ... {Death}{Do you need it?}

:cry:

[locus]

>>Icemage

See - I'd agree with your point if I never cast the spell cure even once between cure cycles.

I personally consider curing/removing status a large part of my responsibilities as a red mage, since I can get them off faster than any white mage in the game. Parsing experience party results usually shows that after refresh and haste, Cure 3 is usually my most often used spell, not to mention that Mages that won't cast cure except on themselves really annoy me. (I could write an entire post on why having at least 2 mages that cast cure is better for your party than saying "Oh, the whm's job" and thinking that 'dedicated healer' is actually a party role.)

If I used a "Debuff,dispel,refresh,haste only" playstyle, I'd agree with you. Different tastes.

Edit: Reason you use Burn is because as a RDM, your half-resist rate is usually godawful without it. It has the minor side effect of increasing the maximum damage your elemental spells do, but that wasn't the point of casting the spell in the first place.

>>about poison 2 - I guess you love the spell more than I do. Still, I'm not losing any sleep over not being able to stick poison 2 on a fish or something. (The sad fact is - I could if I wanted, even without the staff)

[tdh]

I still maintain that the Enfeebling Torque is very useful, and I'm glad I dropped the 3.3M on it. I also encourage other RDMs to drop the gil for it too.

When I solo I put my Staves, Torques and sometimes rings in my Bazaar at max price so when I use my Macros, it doesn't switch out items for when I'm meleeing. (I've had 300%TP for an Energy Drain, I use my Aspir macro which switches in my Dark Staff and I just lost 300%TP. That's annoying!) There's been once or twice that I've been in an EXP party and forgot to free them from my Bazaar. So I'm having a helluva time landing Silence with out my Enfeebling Torque. When this happens I immediately check to make sure I have all the gear I thought I had. When I notice my torque was still maxed out in Bazaar, I removed it and suddenly I had no problem landing Silence. I've never done anything against HNMs, and only once since I got my Enfeebling Torque was in a party that I really shouldn't have been. (Lv.70, just got Sky access in a party with Lv.72~75 against Weapons.)

Of course it could be agrued that the mob had Shell up, but who knows how many other buffs they had up that I'd have to Dispel before I could land Silence and the Tank takes a big one on the nose, or DRK/BLMs waste MP with Stun to stop something Silence would have prevented. I'd rather have Silence stuck and then start casting Dispel. So I think it has it's purposes against EXP mobs.

[locus]

I still maintain that the Enfeebling Torque is very useful, and I'm glad I dropped the 3.3M on it. I also encourage other RDMs to drop the gil for it too.

When I solo I put my Staves, Torques and sometimes rings in my Bazaar at max price so when I use my Macros, it doesn't switch out items for when I'm meleeing. (I've had 300%TP for an Energy Drain, I use my Aspir macro which switches in my Dark Staff and I just lost 300%TP. That's annoying!) There's been once or twice that I've been in an EXP party and forgot to free them from my Bazaar. So I'm having a helluva time landing Silence with out my Enfeebling Torque. When this happens I immediately check to make sure I have all the gear I thought I had. When I notice my torque was still maxed out in Bazaar, I removed it and suddenly I had no problem landing Silence. I've never done anything against HNMs, and only once since I got my Enfeebling Torque was in a party that I really shouldn't have been. (Lv.70, just got Sky access in a party with Lv.72~75 against Weapons.)

Of course it could be agrued that the mob had Shell up, but who knows how many other buffs they had up that I'd have to Dispel before I could land Silence and the Tank takes a big one on the nose, or DRK/BLMs waste MP with Stun to stop something Silence would have prevented. I'd rather have Silence stuck and then start casting Dispel. So I think it has it's purposes against EXP mobs.

70 is fine against Aura weapons (Which you don't want to EXP on. There's better monsters that are less annoying). Secondly, I have no idea why you're having trouble landing silence. Especially if you have a Wind Staff - perhaps my view is skewed because my enfeebling skill was capped for at least 65 levels.

My normal exp gear setup involves me using very little skill gear (+5-15, at most, I think?) and my normal resist rate against lemures (ghost monster, ice element, hard to silence) over a 5 hour ranpstomb party = once or none. No amount of skill gear is going to let you silence Ahriman easily.

[tdh]

70 is fine against Aura weapons (Which you don't want to EXP on. There's better monsters that are less annoying). Secondly, I have no idea why you're having trouble landing silence. Especially if you have a Wind Staff - perhaps my view is skewed because my enfeebling skill was capped for at least 65 levels.Well I'd just got Sky access, and was exploring when a party asked me to join. I was having a helluva time landing Paralyze and Slow at random times at Lv.70 with cap'd Enfeebling, and the Enfeebling Torque.

My normal exp gear setup involves me using very little skill gear (+5-15, at most, I think?) and my normal resist rate against lemures (ghost monster, ice element, hard to silence) over a 5 hour ranpstomb party = once or none. No amount of skill gear is going to let you silence Ahriman easily.All I have is AF Body, all 8 Staves, and Enfeebling Torque. So that's Enfeebling Magic +22. With that I've rarely had any resists problems. (Outside of Dispel on the Copy Cat NM, and a rare random resist.) But if I ever do have a resist these days it's Silence that gets resisted. With out the torque, those random resists seem to increase, but just for this spell.

I do agree that there are much less annoying mobs to EXP on, but I rarely form my own parties. I never have to, so I go where the party drags me.

[Icemage]

Not to be a "racist" but Taru's don't have very much HP to begin with so that a Cure IV + regen can cure plenty. Plus you have tons of MP ... so 2 Cure IVs are a drop in the bucket...

I'm only level 50 but a Cure IV and I'm still in orange. www Regen only returns ... what ... 100 hp? 120 hp? That's over time... I usually can get buy if a WHM is in the PT with Regen II however...

I run as RDM/BRD usually and my HP/MP numbers at level 62 with gear are
HP: 809
MP: 770

Cure IV will maybe bump me up to 425ish, Regen puts me at 550ish or so after the first cast. I just recast Regen each time it wears off - usually takes a few minutes to get back to full, but I'm paying 1MP per 8HP with Regen instead of 1:4.75 or so with a Light staff-boosted Cure IV, a nearly 2 to 1 difference even with the +10% from Light Staff.

Over the course of 10 minutes, that's a savings of about 40MP - one full cast of Refresh or Haste, which leaves me more MP "in the tank" to deal with emergencies. Also, I can use Regen before I convert, and sort of "bank" 15 MP that way on the next cycle.


Icemage

[Jei]

against bones, you should be using /whm so convert+goddess seal + cure 4 should get you back to full health, with or without light staff. Plus you could cast deodorize before you convert if you think you're going to call aggro ^^ I converted and linked a few skeletons on myself the first few times I PT in KRT. Lesson learnt.

Enfeebling torque is always good to have imo. it's ok if you can already stick enfeebling spells 100% without it, the extra 120% doesn't harm anything :)
I probably will not be using it in exp PT once I got my AF2 hat with +10(or 15?) enfeebling skill. But for now i'm still holding on to it. Just to make sure some sleep won't get resisted at the worst time.

[Aeni]

against bones, you should be using /whm so convert+goddess seal + cure 4 should get you back to full health, with or without light staff. Plus you could cast deodorize before you convert if you think you're going to call aggro ^^ I converted and linked a few skeletons on myself the first few times I PT in KRT. Lesson learnt.

No no no. Not aggro from blood loss. Dying to a JA called "Blood Saber" which cuts through utsu, stoneskin, phalanx and I bet invincible. w

Enfeebling torque is always good to have imo. it's ok if you can already stick enfeebling spells 100% without it, the extra 120% doesn't harm anything :)
I probably will not be using it in exp PT once I got my AF2 hat with +10(or 15?) enfeebling skill. But for now i'm still holding on to it. Just to make sure some sleep won't get resisted at the worst time.

No, I'm going to need those torques, as I'm finding my enfeebles are lacking some "can do" spirit when casting. The only problem is money and that's something I'm going to have to deal with eventually (Would be nice if questing for them were options)

You know ... mobs only drop so much seals in this game. I'd have to play like Stephen the BST if I wanted enough seals for everything in under 6 months...

[locus]

against bones, you should be using /whm so convert+goddess seal + cure 4 should get you back to full health, with or without light staff. Plus you could cast deodorize before you convert if you think you're going to call aggro ^^ I converted and linked a few skeletons on myself the first few times I PT in KRT. Lesson learnt.

*sigh* Deodorize doesn't do anything for low hp aggro. It helps stop monsters that track by scent from following you halfway across the map after you've bound and slept them and started running away.

Nothing will stop low hp aggro detection. Except cure, of course.

[Jei]

deodorize never stops enemy training on my before. no matter how far they are.

[Icemage]

No no no. Not aggro from blood loss. Dying to a JA called "Blood Saber" which cuts through utsu, stoneskin, phalanx and I bet invincible. w

Aeni, do you ever research what you post before you post it?

Blood Saber does NOT bypass Stoneskin and does NOT bypass Phalanx. It's an AoE Drain attack (darkness) that drops shadows and bypasses Invincible and Perfect Dodge (being magical).

P.S. Locus is right about Deodorize. It doesn't stop blood aggro as far as I can tell.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Aeni, do you ever research what you post before you post it?

Blood Saber does NOT bypass Stoneskin and does NOT bypass Phalanx. It's an AoE Drain attack (darkness) that drops shadows and bypasses Invincible and Perfect Dodge (being magical).

P.S. Locus is right about Deodorize. It doesn't stop blood aggro as far as I can tell.


Icemage

:rolleyes:

I had a RDM friend die from Blood Saber with Stoneskin just up and converting. I'm guessing you never had this happen to you before.

[Taskmage]

I get hit by blood saber on the ferry all the time and I take 0 damage with stoneskin up. Maybe your friend just had really terrible enhancing skill.

[WishMaster3K]

Nothing goes past Stoneskin unless it does so much damage that it deactivates it, lol.

And Icemage is never wrong ._. Now if only he'd level RDM up some more. . .

In other news, I've realized that RDM is a fairly cheap job. I plug along, getting a bit of gil here and a bit of gil there. In terms of sets, I have all Errant except hat, all Wise except feet(not by choice, I intend to buy them eventually), and all AF.

Crimson would be nice, I guess, but all the stats on the chest I get from Errant body, and the HP/MP+ is negligable since I can manage myself pretty well.

The only Refresh gear I would consider would be Duelist Tabard, but only because it raises Fast Cast, so I'd macro it into Haste and Refresh. The jury is still out on whether or not I'd replace it.

And I've hit some sort of cap, and I can actually notice the difference between my nukes. With full INT and swapping out Wise Body in favor of Errant body, I actually nuke harder ._.

On mobs weaker than me, this is consistent (i suppose since INT would be the strength whilest MagAcc is slightly the strength but more on whether or not I'm resisted.), and on exp it varies.

Thunder and Fire staves are pretty useless, but I bought them anyway, because they were the last things I needed and a RDM in the same pt as me consistently hit 700+ on his MBs >.<

Even with PLD tank, I don't have enough time to cast Poison and see a beneficial effect when before the mob dies BUT-

We have to remember that end-game RDM is much different than the lvl Aeni is at. At her level, Poison is a huge help. I'm not saying to buy the Water Stave, but keep into consideration that she'll factor in the Errant/Wise/Relic stuff when she gets to that bridge.

For argument's sake, Enfeebling Torque is a must only if you can spring for it. On Gilgamesh, Spider and Enfeebling are so close in price that it's worth it to take a few more days(weeks) of getting money to get the Enfeebling.

Joyeuse is free and worth the effort if you must melee.

For pts where you'll be doing a good portion of curing, the consistent 10% goes a long way on light staff.

BUT, Ice staff is almost always below 100k, so get that just out of principle. Then Dark since healing for MP, Sleep and drain/aspir benefit. Then Wind, since Silence and Gravity are those "secondary" enfeebles. I'd spring for Earth last, since you don't really "need" slow. NINs should be doing their own, and while PLDs benefit from it greatly, they can survive without it just fine.

Fire and Thunder are just toys. Water, is useless because Poison 2, the only spell that actually benefits from it, can be cast effectively without it. And if Poison 2 is resisted, it's not a big deal.