Slow/Haste Debuff Rank?

[Tomatoes]

I don't usually care how many times cralwers use Cocoon but I'm a little upset if a spider use Spider web when we have NIN/WAR tank. Why? This is because we have to Erase it and Haste him/her again. Haste cannot overwrite it.

Okay, from limited experience, I believe Haste overwrites and cannot be overwritten by Crawler Sticky Thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. What's news to me is the assertion that Spider Web > Haste. To me, this indicates that Haste/Slow has a similiar relation to Def.Up/Def.Dwn ranks like this:



StudioGobli has the list in Japanese.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/

Anyway, here's the list in English. Those that aren't listed here are still unknown.

+Evasion
(R1) Beatle: Rhino Guard
(R1) Big Bird: Feather Barrier
(R1) Pugil: Water Shield
(R2) Antica: Sand Veil
(R3) Tonberry: Sigh

+Defence
(R1) Crawler: Cocoon
(R1) Crab: Scissor Guard
(R3) Antica: Sand Shield
(R1) Orc: Arm Block
(R1) Yagudo: Parry
(R1) Qudav: Shell Guard

+Attack
(R1) MNK: Boost
(R2) WAR: Warcry

-Evasion
(R1) Lizard: Infrasonics
(R1) Bat: Ultrasonics
(R1) G.Axe: Shield Break
(R2) G.Axe: Full Break
(R4) Fenrir: Lunar Cry

-Defence
(R1) Crossbow: Acid Bolt
(R1) G.Axe: Armor Break
(R1) Staff: Shell Crusher
(R2) G.Axe: Full Break

-Attack
(R1) G.Axe: Weapon Break
(R2) G.Axe: Full Break

-Accuracy
(R2) G.Axe: Full Break
(R4) Fenrir: Lunar Cry

Anybody happen to know more about this?

[capitalistnihilist]

From my experience PTing there as NIN/WAR haste will not overwrite the slow effect of web. However, if you are already hasted, web has no effect on you.


EDIT: Sounds like that individual is upset about sticky web because he sucks at keeping the tank hasted.

[neighbortaru]

yes, that is my understanding as well. haste/slow has ranks just like others in that list.

[alpha1471]

However, if you are already hasted, web has no effect on you.
Not true, spider web does overwrite haste. Sticky web doesn't.

Spider web > Haste > Sticky web

[Tomatoes]

EDIT: Sounds like that individual is upset about sticky web because he sucks at keeping the tank hasted.

Well, I believe he's actually posting it in regards to RDM meleeing in xp parties and helping the mob build up TP to use moves detrimental to PT efficiency (i.e. Spider Web). P.S. Hope you have a flame shield handy. ;)

[capitalistnihilist]

Not true, spider web does overwrite haste. Sticky web doesn't.

Spider web > Haste > Sticky web

You are correct, i was thinking sticky web.

[Last_Viper]

from my experience...
AoE slow can not be overwritten by haste.. single slow can be.
other way is like aplha1471 said before


ps.: the player how postet that, apple pie, is RDM. so i don`t think he has trouble keeping hate ^^ either i don`t think he is a meleeing RDM.

[alpha1471]

Actually, Demonic Howl is an AoE Slow ability that demons have and Haste can overwrite/prevent its effects.

[Icemage]

Some Slow effects are stronger than Haste, most are not. Demonic Howl is weaker than Haste, Spider Web is stronger. There's some NMs that have strong Slow effects that can't be overwritten by Haste too (Ultima comes to mind).


Icemage

[Khidir]

So when you say that some strong slows cant be overwritten by haste are you saying the effect of slow isnt completely removed or is does the haste amount subtract from the slow effect?

Also my question is vice versa as in aoe haste versus single slow and aoe slow does it stack?

No i dont expect an answer just if you know please share^^

[Icemage]

So when you say that some strong slows cant be overwritten by haste are you saying the effect of slow isnt completely removed or is does the haste amount subtract from the slow effect?

Also my question is vice versa as in aoe haste versus single slow and aoe slow does it stack?

No i dont expect an answer just if you know please share^^

All versions of Haste have the same priority, be the from the spell, from an item, or from the avatar Hastega ability. The spell/item version gives more speed boost than Hastega does, but otherwise behaves in the same way.

You can only have Haste or Slow, not both. If you try to add a new effect, the game checks which one is stronger and makes that the current effect - they don't "add" or "subtract" in any way, shape or form, nor do similar type effects stack (exception: note that bard songs such as Advancing March, Victory March, Battlefield Elegy, and Carnage Elegy are not actually "Haste" or "Slow" effects, they are bard songs, though they behave in similar ways).


Icemage

[Ghostraven]

Sounds like that individual is upset about sticky web because he sucks at keeping the tank hasted.

Apple Pie > *