BST more party friendly?

[revoir]

Is BST a more party friendly job now with the new patch that makes jug pets takes no exp froms u .. meaning u still get 100% exp with ur jug pet out.. this way... BST can contribute more as a damage dealer to the party.. without being in an area with both EM and IT monsters

[Armando]

Not a BST, so I can't say much, but I was hanging around Kazham and saw a Yuhtunga party with three BSTs...wasn't parsing or anything so I can't talk about accuracy, but the jug pets were hitting for some respectable numbers.

[Delson]

ive noticed more bsts in partys lately

[little ninja]

party friendly? yeah right. maybe if there were no other DD on, an no other mage jobs would we be taken in a pt set up. just think of all the DD we'd be behind. blm,rng,war,sam,mnk,drk,thf,drg. then bringing up the rear BST.

now you want to know about jug pets. lets say your a poor bst. your prob running around with crab familars. basically these are D/C pets. in a party set up youd be sending them into battle against mobs IT++ an then some. witch means thats a bunch wiffs. ( a little story, i was getting my bst af armor, i sent my C.C at 2 quadav to get my coffer. i barely got my af an triggered my warp cudel before i was beat down on.

if bst wasnt ment to solo, whats with all the charm gear. if we were never ment to move mobs around freely. then whats witht eh + charmt he AF gives.

[Armando]

Just a thought: being able to possibly charm an IT or even just a T mob can save a party, be it a link or when needing to escape/fight a mob that's too strong.

Honestly, I know BST isn't designed towards DDing but you're not THAT behind. You gain access to good DDing armor, and yeah, you don't have Berserk or Sneak Attack innately, but neither do most DDs. Sub WAR for Berserk and you should be able to do at least decent damage. I haven't partied in the post-50 levels yet but I can see it being viable pre-50. I don't think money should be an issue, either. Many jobs have to pay a lot to party, and if BST soloes so much they shouldn't they have a Beastmen's Seal advantage over other jobs?

I'm not pretending to know a lot about being a BST in parties, or that BST is the end-all DD or anything like that, but honestly, I don't see a good reason why they can't. A Dragoon's wyvern does about 1/3 the damage of the DRG on IT mobs and yet it's still a meaningful difference.

[Omni]

lets not get into this again...

the ability to 'possibly' save a pt from an add isnt a good enough reason to have a bst in a pt.

/war= 1 axe + shield
/thf= fuidama doesnt really go that nicely with 1h axe ws.

a bst can dd. just like a smn can heal or a rdm swinging a sword, but you can find other jobs that will do the job more effectively and efficiently.

[little ninja]

lol their is no way in hockey town can we charm an IT mob. seriouslt now, im sitting around with chr 70+20 an a apollo staff, an theres times i mischarm a freaking D/C. a lets just say we do charm a link, not only do we lose exp if the pts fighting a mob, theres no way you could move it far enough away before it uncharms an rapes you.

[Armando]

You still haven't given a reason why they can't DD though. You just said others can do it more efficiently, without saying why. BST gets the same axes as WAR, sometimes better (Wrath Tabar, for example) and all Axe WS. They also get a lot of the good DD armor like Haubergeon, the gigas bracelet line, Royal Knight's Breeches, Royal Guard's Collar, Life Belt, thick set, adaman set, Optical Hat, etc. The pet should be able to do some damage, too. I can't see where the huge damage deficiency is supposed to come from?

[Omni]

/war you get one 1h axe. its decent numbers but others still do the job better. have you seen a war whip out 1 axe and sheild? its OK. i had a war who forgot to sub nin and had thf sub, but we needed him to start light. anyhow, it was mediocre dmg from what i recall. tp gain was slow also.

/thf, lose double atk, lose beserk, lose warcry, lose atk bonuses, still have 1 axe. all this for fuidama mistral? rather have a sam, rng or drg even to open light. cant pull hate if needed either. tp gain even slower.

/nin only for dual wield. no double atk, no berserk, warcry or atk bonuses. utsusemi would be useful for aoe but no way to pull hate if needed.

i didnt say they cant do dmg, just not as efficient as others imo. on remora, theres always plenty of war, sam, thf, drg seeking. why go with bst when you have those? when you want to merit or xp as fast as you can at 74-75, you want jobs that can pump out the dmg as fast as possible.

[Armando]

Dual Weild is overrated in my opinion, but I'll buy that. Just one more thing...what about Rampage?

[Omni]

fuidama rampage? 5 hit skill and fuidama isnt the best thing. slight bonus but nothing giant in my book. my set pt drk was doing fuidama guillotine and the only time he cranks out big numbers on IT+ is with soul eater ending a chain 5.

rampage on /war im sure puts out some decent numbers but im sure your renkei partner has already been waiting for you by now. like i said, not bad numbers, just why not get a war to do it then? you get tankability too with war/nin. not to mention war/nin adding in bloodsword or some other +str/atk trait on your off hand coupled with the extra hit dual wield gives you on ws.

[Macht]

One of the annoying things you'll have to get use to here Armando, is many of the members here love to compaire results by what you gain and loose. It's a commonality among many players as well. They ignore the fact that possibly a BST/THF with 1h Axe using the right WS could get say 800+ for SA+WS and by the time the 1 min. count is up to do again of gotten another 720 for the 12 hits or so of 60 each. Not to also mention having their pet doing 60-80 in that same min. for quite a bit of damage. Say the pet did 12 hits also that's an extra 720-960 damage.

In total if above was the case that is 2,240 damage a min.


Doing BST/WAR and say Berserk boosts his damage to 80-100 a hit for 1 min. and say it's 12 hits. Along with their pet doing 60-80 and say it happens to also be 12 hits in that 1 min. Then that's 1,680 - 2,160 damage a min.

Do WAR/NIN with 2 1h Axes (WS not being factored at the moment, simply because I lack data of what would be resonable damage for axes) 60-80 damage for 24 hits in that 1 min. 1,440-1,920 damage. Berserked to say 80-100 damage it is 1,920 - 2,400 damage. Now of course even though dual wield lets you hit twice at a time you are ofcourse not hitting at the same speed as a person wield 1h Axe so the amount you hit would be like 20 hits in that 1 min. which changes the berserked to 1,600-2,000.

There is so many factors you'll see the members here ignore and so much that even the parsers ignore that it's rediculous. As far what I just showed it seems to state that BST/THF and BST/WAR has the potential to easily outdamage a WAR/NIN as long as they have a pet.

Remember those numbers just ones I pulled out and thought to be logical enough for the demonstration. It's all mostly to point out that just talking about playstyles without hard data to back it stupid and futile.

[Omni]

i repeat myself for a 3rd time. damage is decent. it works. but when you have 15 other war, thf, sam, drg, mnk seeking also, why would you want a bst that has less attributes and less to bring to the table? when you have a better renkei partner, a better back up tank, a better dmg dealer. not just 1 better, but 10 other better seeking at the same time. when pt play has been so beaten to death that people know what works and what is managable. why would you bring a bst into the picture other than the sake of novelty or the fact that there are no other melee seeking?

as far as jug pets go. i will bring you some hard data to review. ill take CC, arguably the best or most versatile jug pet there is into a xp pt at lv. 40 and i will tell you how it goes. dmg done, dmg taken, accuracy, weaponskill effectiveness will be what i am looking for. if there is any other catagory you would like to add to how well the jug pet performs, let me know.

to be continued...

[Coinspinner]

I wonder if BST became SOLO ONRY the way NIN became a tank. Square's vision for jobs has often failed to work out in-game.

[tdh]

From Lv.49 to Lv.54 the same BST kept inviting me. Each time he went as BST/NIN. And one of the times, we had another BST/NIN in the group. They'd tame some bats, and just before the kill they'd release them. EXP flew by big time!

Now I know jug pets won't do as much damage as a T-VT mob joining in the fight, however damage would be in the same range as a Wyvern, right?

AS far as the BSTs damage? I don't recall the damage being off the charts, however it was pretty decent EXP. Those parties gained a lot of EXP in a short amount of time. I don't see a problem with leveing with a BST around Lv.50. But at Lv.60+ I don't see how a party would invite one. DRK starts to come more into their own. More jobs can sub SATA, and of course there's Light/Darkness starting at Lv.65. I just don't see it happening.

What they should have done was made it so BST could Skillchain with their pet's Sic. Much like SMN doing a Skillchain with their Avatars.

[Armando]

Macht, it's good to know I'm not just being seen as some random guy who doesn't know what he's talking about ^^; Honestly my BST is just 15, so I can't back myself up with first-hand experience (though at least my WAR is 45 and I experimented a lot with dual weilded axes and great axe....)

Coinspinner, it could be that way. I mean, BST definetely has more innate tools to solo than to party, but I doubt SE would intend for BST to be completely excluded from the partying scene. SAM might've originally been a tank. I mean, when you have Rice Balls with +50 Attack *and* Defense, and enmity on your AF, and an AF piece that spikes TP occasionally when you're hit...not to mention Third Eye, which isn't anything huge, but it certainly doesn't hurt...plus, you could spam WS for hate...I wouldn't know but it seems feasable to me.

And Omni-Ragnarok, I understand that you could potentially have a better backup tank, but you won't always pick a WAR/NIN over another DD just because it can backup tank, would you? And according to Macht, if the BST/WAR can outdamage the often overhyped Rampage-spamming WAR/NINs, how is it a mediocre DD? The total damage is still very good, so the only excuse not to invite the BST would be because he doesn't fit in the skillchain. And Fuidama Rampage is about as good as Dual-Weilded Rampage, which is what every WAR/NIN fawns over. The only edge dual-weilded Rampage could have over a SATA Rampage would be whatever bonuses the off-hand weapon provides. Something doesn't add up. Either Rampage isn't as good as all the WARs make it out to be, or it really is that good and a BST could do similar damage.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to your jug pet data. I've been curious about their damage potential for a while now ^^

Lol...if pets could skillchain with their TP moves, wouldn't that mean links could skillchain with each other? XD

[tdh]

And Omni-Ragnarok, I understand that you could potentially have a better backup tank, but you won't always pick a WAR/NIN over another DD just because it can backup tank, would you? And according to Macht, if the BST/WAR can outdamage the often overhyped Rampage-spamming WAR/NINs, how is it a mediocre DD? The total damage is still very good, so the only excuse not to invite the BST would be because he doesn't fit in the skillchain. And Fuidama Rampage is about as good as Dual-Weilded Rampage, which is what every WAR/NIN fawns over. The only edge dual-weilded Rampage could have over a SATA Rampage would be whatever bonuses the off-hand weapon provides. Something doesn't add up. Either Rampage isn't as good as all the WARs make it out to be, or it really is that good and a BST could do similar damage.I've seen a BST75 Vs a WAR70 during coffer key party. WAR's Rampage almost doubled the BST's Rampage. Both sub'd NIN. Through out 2 hours, the BST never came close to the WAR's damage with Rampage. I guess this could be chalked up to higher WAR STR, Attack, and gear. But 400-500dmg for BST, and 900-1300 for WAR seems like a big difference.


Lol...if pets could skillchain with their TP moves, wouldn't that mean links could skillchain with each other? XDNow this would be funny. Orcs doing Skillchains on you in a train in Palborough mines. haha

[Evengelion]

rampage on /war im sure puts out some decent numbers but im sure your renkei partner has already been waiting for you by now. like i said, not bad numbers, just why not get a war to do it then? you get tankability too with war/nin. not to mention war/nin adding in bloodsword or some other +str/atk trait on your off hand coupled with the extra hit dual wield gives you on ws.

I am SURE you have never Played a Bst Let alone Party with one and also u have never parsed the dmg done by Bst + pet Have you?

The Dmg Output of say a Bst/War = to a one handed Warrior. we get almost the same equipment or better in fact if we go full str setup that is. this is minimal compaired that war can sub nin to get 2 attacks instead of one but are you forgetting our pet? lets just put jugs up instead. don't talk about EM mobs after this stupid patch that is another dmg potential up to "Another Player" if you parse the dmg u will know how powerful pets are even if it is a jug only problem is jugs have little hp compaired to EM mobs.

It was parsed by someone in Alla before that Bst are the most powerful DD's in game that is if they have a pet u seem to forget the dmg the pet dishes out so please check your numbers before you shoot you mouth saying Bst can't do jack when it comes to being a DD.

With correct Food and not to mention we are one of the richest jobs around due to easy farming and not much expensive Equipment to buy, we have access to expensive equipment your average War/nin cannot get in a shot time. we can easily out dmg your tankable war/nin you also neglect to forget if there is a need we can also charm links tame and save the party if the spot permits.

Please level Your Bst to a Good Level and Use a jug on a T/IT with someone else tanking and see if your pet dishes out good dmg in some cases you pet will even outdmg you. try a shroom pet or maybe a Tiger before u say anything.

Btw Omni-Ragnarok it seem every post you have posted in this forum u have doomed Bst to oblivion what do u have against Bst? cos we can level faster then u seeking all the time or is it you are jealous?

[Omni]

I am SURE you have never Played a Bst Let alone Party with one and also u have never parsed the dmg done by Bst + pet Have you?



are you sure? are you really really sure?

what do i have against bst? nothing. i love the job. I AM A BST TOO. not as high as you, but if you took the time to read anything ive ever posted or even the little siggy thing at the bottom of all my posts you would see that i am bst and i am deeply saddened at the fact that my ability and choice to solo has been narrowed down. i have played bst solo and in pt before. i have used my pet. as far as damning it into oblivion, its quite the opposite. please take the time to read the context of everything before you start making claims about me and what i say.

just to show you that you dont read here is what i said in this very thread itself:

as far as jug pets go. i will bring you some hard data to review. ill take CC, arguably the best or most versatile jug pet there is into a xp pt at lv. 40 and i will tell you how it goes. dmg done, dmg taken, accuracy, weaponskill effectiveness will be what i am looking for. if there is any other catagory you would like to add to how well the jug pet performs, let me know.

now how would i do this if i dont have a bst to do it with? cmon, use that head of yours.

why dont you check yourself before you start shooting off at the mouth. so why dont you come correct if you are going to come at all so you dont make yourself look like a fool.

[Evengelion]

The main reason that everyone regards Bst so low in the DD market is due to the fact that we are not party friendly as we tend to reject partying to begin with.

When you ask a bst to party they will say "Sorry i'm busy". So it is known to the Community that Bst is a SOLO job and can do jack shit in a party it is nothing to do with us being a lousy DD.

Let me ask you, would u like to seek for an 1hr setup party and hr and go to spot start leveling and getting about 6-8k an hr or to find pt sucks and get 2k an hr OR would u rather go to location 10mins and start getting 3k an hr That is Y bst Reject parties. In the First place How do u think we can make 3k an hr SOLO killing the SAME mobs you kill but at a slightly higher level? Becos our dmg output is high simple Logic.

I bet half of non-bst won't agree cos y everyone is ignorant about bst cos they are sooo arrogant they take your xp spots steal mobs from you MPK all these are all what people think cos they don't party with one so they assume it only.

[Omni]

The main reason that everyone regards Bst so low in the DD market is due to the fact that we are not party friendly as we tend to reject partying to begin with.

When you ask a bst to party they will say "Sorry i'm busy". So it is known to the Community that Bst is a SOLO job and can do jack shit in a party it is nothing to do with us being a lousy DD.

Let me ask you, would u like to seek for an 1hr setup party and hr and go to spot start leveling and getting about 6-8k an hr or to find pt sucks and get 2k an hr OR would u rather go to location 10mins and start getting 3k an hr That is Y bst Reject parties. In the First place How do u think we can make 3k an hr SOLO killing the SAME mobs you kill but at a slightly higher level? Becos our dmg output is high simple Logic.

I bet half of non-bst won't agree cos y everyone is ignorant about bst cos they are sooo arrogant they take your xp spots steal mobs from you MPK all these are all what people think cos they don't party with one so they assume it only.

omgosh, if you have READ ANYTHING in here, let alone the large topic that neighbortaru started called "That's all folks" you would know that this is what ive been saying ALL DAY LONG. here is even a link for you if you can find the time to read it: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52003

READ PLEASE

seriously, get your foot out of your mouth.

[Evengelion]

Omni-Ragnarok

From what i have read in the few Threads here you have been saying time and time again that There are soooo many other jobs IE every job in FFxi that does better dmg then us BSTs.
You claim you are a BST so Y are you condamning us? u keep saying they have sooo many Pro we have soooo many cons...
You are sooo pessimistic that u actually believe that we are so useless in parties that no one will choose us over a mnk a war a thf etc etc
Parse the data you claim to be gathering then come to this forum and boast about how high bst dmg is i am not saying the BIG numbers u get from SCs i am talking about RAW Dps our TPs might be slower but not that much as you so claim.

Unless the Community changes it's view on Bst however Getting That DD spot will be VERY hard it is not that they are better it is just that the community think that we suck that's all.

Double Post Edited:
You don't have to post the link COS I did post in that thread as well and i DID read that thread you have been saying we suck from that thread as well and basically even if you so claim NO.... i wasn't saying that You sure implied it in all your posts

[Omni]

ok you know what, you win. you're lack of understanding, reading and overall comprehension just baffles me. i told you to read what i have read, but you dont. i told you to look at the context at what i have posted these words, but you dont. dont say from what you have read, because you are lying through your teeth and by what you say, you demostrate you have read nothing.

we do have lots of pros. one of them being the only job with the freedom to go out whenever they want and however they want and get xp at a decent, sometimes great, rate. now that has been made even more difficult for us. i have worked really hard to get to 35, and was just beginning to enjoy playing bst till this update occured. like you said, why pt when you can solo for the same or better xp? thats what i have been saying all along. i also have been saying, that now we need to compete with war, mnk, thf, sam, drg, rng for that dd spot now. i also have been saying that we do decent dmg. but like you said, it is hard to get that dd spot given the community and the way bst have chosen to play. i chose bst b/c i dont have time to play ffxi as i used to. i love the job b/c i can be productive even given 2 hours of playing time. now, i'm being pushed to pt now, which is not the reason why i picked up the job in the first place.

anyhow, this doesnt matter anyways, since you will not read anything i say nor try to comprehend it. since this is the case, i have nothing left to say to you.

[lionx]

I've seen a BST75 Vs a WAR70 during coffer key party. WAR's Rampage almost doubled the BST's Rampage. Both sub'd NIN. Through out 2 hours, the BST never came close to the WAR's damage with Rampage. I guess this could be chalked up to higher WAR STR, Attack, and gear. But 400-500dmg for BST, and 900-1300 for WAR seems like a big difference.

Not to say you are wrong or anything but while that might be true BSTs in general do not have STR setups or anything refferring to DDing, so if they sub WAR and maybe got some more DDing type gear instead of CHR and other Charm stuff, it may be a little different. Just wanted to say that @_@ unless that person DOES have STR gear...

[Evengelion]

IT is not that i don't understand you view point but that is a Solo aspect of game play you are SO referring to but u do not see it in a Party Setup aspect that is what baffles me in all your post.

You keep insisting that it is us having problems with our job not the people having problems with our job. if u condition yourself we still become the ideal DD setup it is just it take alot of money to get there like every other job.

For us to have 2 types of gear also sucks cos we need SOLO gear and PT gear now so we are no longer a Cheap job to play it is not like what u say we can't it is we don't want to.

Yes The Developers made it Fooking hard to Solo now and seem like Forcing us to compete for the DD spot but u forget that it is the community and what we have done to Earn this reputation the job has.

What You should be doing is not Keep saying we are worse then every other job cos we can't do this we can't do that, we have our own skills that put us UP THERE. it is the Dps that gets us the spot not what we can do with our subjob skills.

Just Wait it out they might make us even more powerful then we are as of now. BUT This still Forces us to Party which sucks imo cos we are a job who is able to fit peoples schedules instead of party all the time.
Maybe IF we all combine and Make it know we have a VERY high DPS maybe we will be sought after like rangers but if u keep having the mentality that we suck it won't change anything.

[Omni]

IT is not that i don't understand you view point but that is a Solo aspect of game play you are SO referring to but u do not see it in a Party Setup aspect that is what baffles me in all your post.



no, that is the point. you dont understand what im saying. heck, you even thought i wasnt a bst. heck you even thought i didnt play bst solo or in pt. that is the point. think what you want. i love this job just as much as you do. i makes me very upset that we have to be changed to accomodate a few bad apples even though the mpk issue was necessary. this job has taken me to places in vana`diel i would have never seen with a normal pt. think what you will.

[tdh]

Not to say you are wrong or anything but while that might be true BSTs in general do not have STR setups or anything refferring to DDing, so if they sub WAR and maybe got some more DDing type gear instead of CHR and other Charm stuff, it may be a little different. Just wanted to say that @_@ unless that person DOES have STR gear...I'll admit that I don't know the gear of the BST. But the WAR didn't have his Hauby at the time, and no Bomb core. I just know the BST had a SH on.

I thought about a BST going /WAR and letting the extra STR and Berserk & Warcry help out. And I'll admit that the 1300dmg Rampage was Mighty Striked, but most of the time it was a 2:1 damage ratio.

[Evengelion]

Bst Equipment is very similar to War equipment and definately Bst will have a lower DPS even with the same equipment becos they don't have the extra atk boost from higher war ability but it will hit somewhere maybe 3/4 of the war Not 1/1 But that is without taking into consideration the pet dmg. when u add pet dmg into this bst will out dmg the war also u get 1 pet SC atleast in almost every fight as well. this dmg slowly adds up slowly but surely. it is not like BLM doing 10k dmg in 3mins

[revoir]

by the way.. if SE did not change it.. you can skill chain with your pet's Sic...
i did it before.. after watching my lvl 75 bst friend skill chain with his Courier Carrie..
but rememeber which sic with which ws since its ages ago.. and i left FF for like nearly half a year.. but planning to come back

[WishMaster3K]

Omni, you're a great guy, honestly, you even have good grammer and things of that nature. But having you say things about BST from your point of view was like me at lvl 45 saying how much Refresh wasn't really needed and so forth and so on.

You obviously have multiple higher jobs, not taking that from you, but in this particular area (BST), you're not at the level where you can personally see your versatility. I JUST got to the level where, with a STR/ACC/EVA build, I can do some dangerous things as RDM/NIN. That's because of the gear available to me.

At the 40s, what can DDs get? Royal Knight's Chainmail at most? A BST with 1h Axe in addition to Hauby/Hauberk and a STR build is dangerous, Christ, look at the gear BST can get. . . Unless I'm mistaken, isn't the Thick gear WAR/DRK/BST???

I'm only NIN25, and it's hard, but I'm not basing my opinion of NIN tanking on what I've done, simply because I've seen so many NINs do so many different things over the course of the game. After NI(Which is FOUR shadows and like a 1.5 second cast time =^_^=) and NIN Eva/Parry really pulls away from the crowd and Eva gear and sushi and an entire wealth of factors comes into play, especially after mid-gamin 50s, NINs can be effective DDs as well as Tanks, AT the same time :)

I've seen a BST75 Vs a WAR70 during coffer key party. WAR's Rampage almost doubled the BST's Rampage. Both sub'd NIN. Through out 2 hours, the BST never came close to the WAR's damage with Rampage. I guess this could be chalked up to higher WAR STR, Attack, and gear. But 400-500dmg for BST, and 900-1300 for WAR seems like a big difference.

tdh, you're breaking my heart to say that ;.; Especially cause the Rampage was MSed. That's not a fair comparison, lol! Even gimp WARs do 400 on Rampage, and Leet Wars do above 900. Coffer PT where? I know that coffer mobs do not exceed the 66 lvl range, so they'd be DC to even the lvl 70WAR. But then again. 900 is possible, but it's also possible that the BST simply missed a few hits. With the SAME gear, not even the same Stats, gear-wise, BST and WAR (even being 5 lvls apart) should have comparable damage on DC mobs to the lowest member.

Oh and don't even mention BST/NIN, that's nothing in the way of DD. BST/NIN, maybe with a pet out could do comparable DoT to a WAR, but it's unlikely. You don't see a job like BST, that does not have it's own Atk boosts or abilities, sub NIN and expect to do anything compared to a WAR with Berserk, Warcry and the latent STR boosts? That's like comparing WAR GS skill to DRK GS skill post Spinning Slash. >.>

[Armando]

Omni, I think I misinterpreted what you were arguing. I thought we were arguing about BST's ability to DD, but after the more recent posts it looks more to me like you were arguing about why a BST would want to DD in a party when they have so much competition and have to deal with every other hassle that can come with partying. If that's what you were arguing, then I'll give you that - being a DD and seeking for parties is never cool.

And please, please, please don't even bother comparing a normal Rampage to a Mighty Striked Rampage ^^; If all hits connect, Mighty Strikes can add 200-300 damage to the WS easily PLUS any Double Attacks that would also have been critical. And the BST wasn't subbing WAR? That's not a fair comparison either, because he's missing out on a massive attack boost (Berserk), an Attack+10 trait, and Double Attack ^^; I haven't seen a BST and a WAR do Rampages side by side but I just can't see where any overwhelming difference could come from. Given that they'd both have access to Attack Up (WAR gets only one,) Double Attack, and Berserk, and that they both have access to the same gear (RK/RG armor, thick armor, hauby/byrnie, etc.) the only thing the WAR would have on the BST would be Aggressor, and most people eat Sushi now so that would make the acc boost from Aggressor not be as significant for Rampage's damage as it would've been pre-Sushi, unless they're both trying it on some IT+++ mob, and even then...I just don't see it. WAR doesn't have some innate "I kick more ass than you" trait. A BST and a WAR using axes are practically the same thing. WAR can sub other things without sacrificing Berserk/Double Attack, but BST has a pet. And yeah NIN sub isn't that great for DDing...Dual Weild can't make up for lack of Berserk.

Now what I'd like to know is how much a jug pet can do on IT mobs and how does the total BST + Pet damage compare to other DDs. I can talk theory all I want but without numbers it's not really that meaningful ^^;

Also, Evangelion, Omni-Ragnarok isn't trying to put the job down, he's trying to look at it realistically.

[Macht]

Ok, now there a point in the threads were people seemed to start taking pot shots at eachother instead of making a sound rebuttal. I appreciate Omni-Ragnarocks willingness to take a serious look at the change, and if he's willing to make sound tests to show BST/??? in combination with other jobs that are stated to be good then I respect him for it.

Just he better be ready for me to pick that data apart to make sure we truely have covered every ground and situation :evil:

[Omni]

Omni, I think I misinterpreted what you were arguing. I thought we were arguing about BST's ability to DD, but after the more recent posts it looks more to me like you were arguing about why a BST would want to DD in a party when they have so much competition and have to deal with every other hassle that can come with partying. If that's what you were arguing, then I'll give you that - being a DD and seeking for parties is never cool.



Also, Evangelion, Omni-Ragnarok isn't trying to put the job down, he's trying to look at it realistically.

thank you. atleast someone reads what i say. this is what i have been saying all along. we go from having our own time to do whatever we want and however we want to being nudged into playing in a pt, and pushing ourselves to now have to compete with all the other decked out DD at that. i just cant take someone seriously when they talk out of their ass and dont try to read anything ive said let alone ask me if i have ever played bst. straight up retarded.

macht: feel free to make suggestions about other factors that might/should be considered.

wishmaster: i know that being at lvl 40 is not the ideal lvl to make an evaluation of bst. BUT this is the lvl i am at. this is the situation i am facing with this update. this is the lvl at which i need am being nudged to try pt's more. so this is all i can do for now. as tdh said, there might be some levels where the xp flew but after a certain range, it drops off dramatically for bst. anyhow, this is what i have to test.

i didnt have much time to test anything last night. dead tired from being at work 11 hours. but i got my pt gear in shape. double checked that my parser is functional and i'm ready to start seeking whenever i get the time to.

pt gear goes something like this:

barbaroi axe
combat caster's axe (/nin)
strike sheild (/war, /thf)
emperor hairpin
beetle earring+1 x2
spike necklace
ryl. sqr. chainmail
wonder mitts
nomad's mantle
ryl. sqr. breeches
wonder clomps
tilt belt
puissance ring x2
venerer ring
sniper's ring

i have bought 2 different types of food to use. sole sushi and mithkabobs.
depending on what the other melee uses, i'll match what they use so variances due to food will be at a minimum. note, i am also a taru so race variances might be a factor also. i am going to try to log several pt's worth of fights before i post any results. given my rl schedule and usual seeking time, dont expect anything instant. i will be as diligent as possible.

[WishMaster3K]

>.>;;; I know some melees who have multiple jobs post 70 that don't gear like that. Don't be suprised if there is an excessive amount of PWNage when you DD. And I suggest trying to form your own pts, and going as /anon

[Omni]

yea ill try forming my own but i usually only have 2-3 hours max on weeknights to play. weekends tend to be more haphazard. sometimes i can play all afternoon sometimes im not even home. i try to boost my attack/str b/c more often than not, melee i will be teaming with are not taru. just to make the fields even a bit. i do have acc gear to strap on but with the advent of sushi, ive never had all that much use for excessive amounts of acc.

[WishMaster3K]

< BST 5

Now would be a perfect time to raise BST, because, well, I have nothing to look forward to, so instead of 35levels of grinding gears, it's a resentful acceptence of the inevitable. At least I didnt have time to get spoiled =[

I'm gonna farm as a RDM75/BST37 and see how that goes, lol. I remember the fun I had as RDM60/BST1 when I charmed(after about 6 attempts) a tiger in Battalia and went nuts. I can't imagine how much fun farming would be with Sic and Leave and stuff. :P I wanna run around Qufim with the Kraken just to be imposing on the obnoxious undead.

See that, BST can still be fun! Chin up! At least you're richer than a good percentage of the players that arent sky whores or THFs ;.;

[Thoronas]

Some dmg parsing from higher lvl bst (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8;mid=11349713673036673;num=20;page =1)

On their own bst can't do as much dmg as some DD but they aren't THAT terrible from the numbers I've seen. The pet in many cases pushes us just that little bit further. Yes other DD have other things to offer but we still have ways of contributing to a pt. From some of the data people have presented, jug pets do better than a drg's wyvern depending on the pet.

I think bst is definately more pt friendly since jugs are no longer an exp leech. I'm curious to see how a fungaur jug would work in a pt at my lvl since they are like 800 gil a piece in kazham.

[Omni]

i read through that post earlier today and it does look very promising. some of the posters do explain that with equal quality equips war/nin or drk do pile on more of the dmg. also, when doing xping off deco weapons, high dmg is expected. looks very nice i have to admit. it does make us more friendly than before but i'd hate to say that this sort of scenario is not why most of us took up the job in the first place.

i am looking forward to seeing what my parse info has to offer to this discussion. i think a great analysis would be a bst in the 60s give some parse data. mid 60s is a nice meaty chunk of xp where jobs start to fully develop while mobs are still challanging and chain 5s take more effort than spamming ws and -ga spells.

[Armando]

Nice find, Thoronas ^^ Courier Carrie did about half the BST's damage overall, which is quite a bit. I've only parsed 2-3 parties that had DRG in them, but generally the Wyvern did around 1/3 of the DRG's damage (with some great accuracy, though, as opposed to Carrie's high damage and below-average acc.) CC is one of the "uncapped" BST pets though? And is it cheap enough for any BST to take advantage of?

[Omni]

CC is about 20k iirc on remora a stack. not too bad.
i have a few different jugs on me i currently want to test. CC, tigerFamiliar, antlionFamiliar and funguarFamiliar. CC is indeed one of the uncapped jugs. i think there are a few other, the only other one i can think off right now is the sabotender one. i think those are quite pricey though.

[Armando]

That's pretty affordable. Here's another thought: how do mob TP moves come into play in parties? Some mobs have TP moves with effects that are rare commodities for players (like Evasion Down from Bats and Beetles.) I know Sic is kinda random, but are there any jug pets with abilities that are valuable to the party?

[Omni]

each pet type has its typical tp moves associated with it.
there are the nice ones such as sickle slash, acid mist, jet stream etc. but there are also quite a few useless ones especially if your pet doesnt have hate. such as metallic shield, waterwall, eva up+, etc.

things like evasion down is great, but also can miss regularly on tougher mobs. i had bats miss evasion down quite a few times. all in all, the useful ones balance out the not so useful.

[Thoronas]

List of jug pets and what lvl they cap. (http://mysterytour.web.infoseek.co.jp/ffxi/us/scroll/03bst.htm)
panzer galahad is another jug that caps at 75 but it is also a very high level jug. Its a HQ of a low lvl woodworking synth so I can't imagine it would be hard to make. I'm pretty sure the HQ antlion jug is lvl 75 capped. Some bsts on alla said chopsuey chuckey could actually SOLO maat so I'd imagine he's quite strong but he's also quite expensive.

From the way it sounds now, CC and maybe the funguar are the best jugs to use in pt when comparing price and results. I think the funguar would be better due to nice TP attacks but then again I haven't tried it yet. At higher lvls panzer may be good in parties as well because most of his tp attacks aren't aoe(Hi-Freq field being the only aoe).

[WishMaster3K]

Which are the newest jug pets added? I've read that they are grossly overpowered, lol

[Omni]

the ones at the top of the list are the newer ones.
i like antlion familiar ;p its funny to have a giant antlion following my taruself.

[Evengelion]

Ok Omni-Ragnarok Do you know Believe after so many peoples post that you Analogy for Bst is wrong?

To you guys doing parsing data you better have a good parser cos i know of some data that u cannot parse into it one being SC damage becos SC dmg rely too much on the final WS dmg done. MB if compairing with Casters. Sic dmg is quite dependant to pets as well.

Best Dot Pets in terms of cost would be HQ Tiger if it hasn't capped, Funguar Rumoured to cap at 75 but at 65 it still does best dmg in my book but very low hp
CC is the WORSE pet in terms of DPS it is a Paladin kind of pet Single attack rarely double lousy sics BUT toughest Pet we get. Antlion is REALLY powerful but comes with the Price as well... not ideal of pt especially when jugs tend to only last 15mins.

I agree War/Nin can dish out alot dmg we most probably will equal or excel in DD using jugs but you also never considered if we had EM pets as well. EM pet Dmg is almost double of Jug i mean Almost i have seen Funguar do 40+ dmg to a gob while i did a pet swap but the EM after was doing in the 50s.

You also have to take into consideration these facts as well. BUT i must say we do lack in TP when u consider a sub /nin or /sam so if it is a caster pt we are not suited for it.

[WishMaster3K]

I want a good parser as well, BUT, the ingredients are there, BSTs, in general, just need to toss it all together. BST get Mistral Axe, and they wear the same things WARs get. At 70, one thing they are missing is Aggressor, lol, and maybe a loss in terms of overall hittability.

But comparing a BST and WAR front-end damage is kinda interesting, because while BST can keep up in terms of gear, the aspect that makes a steep curve of their damage comes from their lil buddies ^^

So while it's obvious that BST CANT replace WAR, they are good support DDs that can keep up in damage.

[Yossar]

Yeah, BST can wear the same gear as a WAR, but our base stats are no where close to theirs. I believe we have about the same STR as a RDM.

[WishMaster3K]

Don't insult yourself like that >.> No melee hit's that weak.

[Armando]

Even if that were true (not sure on that) comparing yourself to WAR's STR isn't really that fair...I mean, they do have the highest STR in the game, tied with DRK ^^; Yet the other DDs do just fine with their "inferior" STR compared to WAR's. Basically if you don't mind the STR difference that inherently comes from being a Taru melee, then you shouldn't mind the STR difference that comes from not being a WAR, in my opinion.

[Omni]

Ok Omni-Ragnarok Do you know Believe after so many peoples post that you Analogy for Bst is wrong?

To you guys doing parsing data you better have a good parser cos i know of some data that u cannot parse into it one being SC damage becos SC dmg rely too much on the final WS dmg done. MB if compairing with Casters. Sic dmg is quite dependant to pets as well.

Best Dot Pets in terms of cost would be HQ Tiger if it hasn't capped, Funguar Rumoured to cap at 75 but at 65 it still does best dmg in my book but very low hp
CC is the WORSE pet in terms of DPS it is a Paladin kind of pet Single attack rarely double lousy sics BUT toughest Pet we get. Antlion is REALLY powerful but comes with the Price as well... not ideal of pt especially when jugs tend to only last 15mins.

I agree War/Nin can dish out alot dmg we most probably will equal or excel in DD using jugs but you also never considered if we had EM pets as well. EM pet Dmg is almost double of Jug i mean Almost i have seen Funguar do 40+ dmg to a gob while i did a pet swap but the EM after was doing in the 50s.

You also have to take into consideration these facts as well. BUT i must say we do lack in TP when u consider a sub /nin or /sam so if it is a caster pt we are not suited for it.

wha wha wha wha? woh wha woh wha wha woh woh wah woh. wha woh woh wah... oh did you say something? oh right, i dont play bst. i dont know what you are talking about. huh? what? i actually dont play ffxi.... so im not sure what you mean with all this jibber jabber. sorry, but today is wednesday why do you keep telling me its friday? huh? its red not yellow....wha? ok nm carry on.

[WishMaster3K]

ROFL!!!!! wait, what!?!?

Damn Omni, good job, I effectively am confused now. I'm not sure if that was your objective, cause now I forgot what we were arguing about >.>

[Omni]

since mr. readingcomprehension has me all figured out. since he has read everything i've said and mulled over it trying to understand its context. since he has read what other people have said also. i just thought i'd return the favor and respond in the same manner. :wtf:

[WishMaster3K]

No, I'm serious, I haven't gone to sleep since I've been home on saturday. It's really wednesday?

[Omni]

hahaha. yes it is wednesday. well thursday early morning if you are on the other side of the world. is this what you call.. how do you say... ah yes... hijacked thread?

i feel nt or macht are going to wave the close thread wand soon :p

[WishMaster3K]

=o What!?! No, this is a healthy discussion on the intricacies of. . . grammer? Punctuation? Ah, for the love of Altana ; . ;

[Armando]

wha wha wha wha? woh wha woh wha wha woh woh wah woh. wha woh woh wah... oh did you say something? oh right, i dont play bst. i dont know what you are talking about. huh? what? i actually dont play ffxi.... so im not sure what you mean with all this jibber jabber. sorry, but today is wednesday why do you keep telling me its friday? huh? its red not yellow....wha? ok nm carry on.
That was awesome.

[Evengelion]

wha wha wha wha? woh wha woh wha wha woh woh wah woh. wha woh woh wah... oh did you say something? oh right, i dont play bst. i dont know what you are talking about. huh? what? i actually dont play ffxi.... so im not sure what you mean with all this jibber jabber. sorry, but today is wednesday why do you keep telling me its friday? huh? its red not yellow....wha? ok nm carry on.

Your so full of yourself omni now i understand y people state that asking for player feed back in alla was a bad move as there are people like you who give useless judgement over things and only have one view over the situation MEANING YOU'RE SO FULL OF YOURSELF.

Period end of story.MODS PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD i don't want to stick a gun up his ass so he can see better what he is actually saying.

[WishMaster3K]

:( Sticking a gun up anyone's ass is a very violent act. But then again, the anal orafice was only made for excrement, not incriment. But an incriment is a word used to describe a unit of something, isnt it? So that means our asses were not made to count?

The world makes no sense now.

[Omni]

Period end of story.MODS PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD i don't want to stick a gun up his ass so he can see better what he is actually saying.

i actually like corn pops better. fruit loops and capt crunch arent really that great imo. oh, it IS red, you were right.




anyhow, i was able to logon last night for a good 3 hours. threw up my seek flag while i ran off to bastok to finish up some crafting. i figured i'll seek till i get back to jeuno if no invites then, i'll try and form a pt. at the beginning of seeking, there were approximately 14 jobs seeking. 3 brds (can you believe that?), 2 rdm, whm, blm, 2 drg, thf, drk, sam, and 2 war. i jotted down a few of the names so i can see if they went into pt's or they just stopped seeking.

run to bastok goldsmithing guild to finish up some things. periodically checking on people seeking. drk, and both wars are both gone by the time i finish my crafting. great, people are making pts, hopefully i'll get a /tell soon so i dont need to create a pt. warp back to jeuno and rummage through auction house, check the /sea 39-41 all inv again, now 2 brds are gone, both rdm, both drg (all right! they're starting to get noticed more now!), blm and whm.

crap, the number of people seeking are running out. i hurry to pick up the brd and and ask a non seeking rdm. no replies. hmm... just the /sea again, thf is gone now. leaving the brd, sam and me. sent a few other /tell to some non seeking players to see if they wanted to xp, few no replies and a few declines. im not sure if its b/c im a bst or if its b/c of something else. i really dont want to be /anon when inviting people. never done it before, and think its really lame.

anyhow, after lingering around for a bit and not being able to get anything going. i had to call it a night. had to be up early this morning to get into the office :\ i am not detered! will try again over the Christmas weekend. i have a good 5 days off! hopefully i'll be able to have some parse results for people that want to see them soon.

[Gman]

My 2 cents.

I pretty much skipped page 3 of this thread to comment on stuff from page 2. (the arguments were getting kind of boring)

My best Rampage -EVER- on a Tough mob or higher, as BST/WHM 460 dmg.

Taru BST/WHM level 72

Pick of Trials (D 46 delay 312) Had Tabarzin but trying to work off latents
Spiked Buckler (+5 attack)
Optical Hat (+10 acc, r-acc, evasion)
Royal Guard's Collar (+4 att, +4 acc)
Assault Earring (+2 acc, +5 attack, -2 eva, -3 def)
Pigeon Earring (+20 hp)
Hauberk (+5 str, +5 dex, +10 acc, +10 att, -10 eva)
Creek M Mitts (+6 Str, +65 hp, -3 agi)
Ruby Ring x2 (+4 str each)
Amemit Mantle +1 (+15 att, +15 ra-att, +2 str)
Life Belt (+10 acc)
Thick Breeches (+5 att, +2 acc, -2 eva)
Thick Solerettes (+5 att, +2 acc, -3 eva)

That is just about the best gear a BST can get for level 72. Having HQ thick pieces/Haub, Peacock charm, Juggernaut, and HQ rings would be better, but this setup is still good.

A 460 rampage is pathetic compared to what a warrior can do on an IT mob, and I only managed this on a Tough. Sure, I had WHM subbed, but my gear was excellent, and that was my HIGHEST Rampage. My average Rampage is probably around 275-300 on these mobs (Goblins in Bibiki Bay)

Bottom line, BST's will never be a common invite to a normal exp party the way they are now. No melee abilities, and nothing that makes them stand out from other DD's except a jugpet with maybe 50% accuracy on IT mobs. Perhaps if they change some job abilities or give us new ones, we might be able to contribute, but right now, we are the low man on the totem pole.

Luckily I am close to 75, but if I was in my 60's or 50's I'd be pretty pissed off.

FYI, I've decided not to quit... I'll just craft, fish, and level BST occasionally. I didn't put all that time getting BST to 72 to have S-E shoot me down.

[Aeni]

A 460 rampage is pathetic compared to what a warrior can do on an IT mob, and I only managed this on a Tough. Sure, I had WHM subbed, but my gear was excellent, and that was my HIGHEST Rampage. My average Rampage is probably around 275-300 on these mobs (Goblins in Bibiki Bay)

You realized that subbing WHM versus WAR makes a big difference, right? Consider my own experience with subbing THF and WAR on DRK. First of all, base STR is really, really different. I mean, it's almost as if I went from DRK to RDM when changing those subs. Have you considered using /WAR on BST or even /NIN when you're partying for exp? WAR sub give you access to Warcry and Berserk, which is a plentiful boost to a BST, since they have absolutely no combat job abilities to speak of outside of pet manipulation.

Just my 2 cents ...

(Heck, sub DRK if you want and go with scythe)

[Omni]

My 2 cents.

I pretty much skipped page 3 of this thread to comment on stuff from page 2. (the arguments were getting kind of boring)

My best Rampage -EVER- on a Tough mob or higher, as BST/WHM 460 dmg.

Taru BST/WHM level 72

Pick of Trials (D 46 delay 312) Had Tabarzin but trying to work off latents
Spiked Buckler (+5 attack)
Optical Hat (+10 acc, r-acc, evasion)
Royal Guard's Collar (+4 att, +4 acc)
Assault Earring (+2 acc, +5 attack, -2 eva, -3 def)
Pigeon Earring (+20 hp)
Hauberk (+5 str, +5 dex, +10 acc, +10 att, -10 eva)
Creek M Mitts (+6 Str, +65 hp, -3 agi)
Ruby Ring x2 (+4 str each)
Amemit Mantle +1 (+15 att, +15 ra-att, +2 str)
Life Belt (+10 acc)
Thick Breeches (+5 att, +2 acc, -2 eva)
Thick Solerettes (+5 att, +2 acc, -3 eva)

That is just about the best gear a BST can get for level 72. Having HQ thick pieces/Haub, Peacock charm, Juggernaut, and HQ rings would be better, but this setup is still good.

A 460 rampage is pathetic compared to what a warrior can do on an IT mob, and I only managed this on a Tough. Sure, I had WHM subbed, but my gear was excellent, and that was my HIGHEST Rampage. My average Rampage is probably around 275-300 on these mobs (Goblins in Bibiki Bay)

Bottom line, BST's will never be a common invite to a normal exp party the way they are now. No melee abilities, and nothing that makes them stand out from other DD's except a jugpet with maybe 50% accuracy on IT mobs. Perhaps if they change some job abilities or give us new ones, we might be able to contribute, but right now, we are the low man on the totem pole.

Luckily I am close to 75, but if I was in my 60's or 50's I'd be pretty pissed off.

FYI, I've decided not to quit... I'll just craft, fish, and level BST occasionally. I didn't put all that time getting BST to 72 to have S-E shoot me down.

well, after having 5 days off and getting some decent playing time in, my bst adventures have been pretty bleak as of late. i tried both. making my own pt and seeking for pt. neither have worked. when forming my own pt, i get no replies or thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass as a answer 90% of the time. so any short of tricking people and going anon, forming a pt seems a bit difficult but will still try. seeking is not any better. i see every melee go before me till i am literally the last melee standing. /sea 39-41 all inv goes from 7-9 melee seeking to just me alone after an hour or so. will still keep trying.

thanks gman for pointing out that bst in the middle chunk of levels would be pretty p-o`d. thats how i have been. altepa isnt treating me well, all i find are dc beetles or dc dhamels and VT dhamels, and when i do find a T dhamel, it still some how loves to get me a run for my money.

if anyone has any suggestions for lv. 40 bst solo play, thats different from yuhtunga and altepa, i'd love to try out a new area.

on a brighter note, i finally dinged 75 on nin. been dragging it along for some 3 months and finally grinded it out and finished nin. not really into nin anymore. not sure if i should take the time out to merit nin. anyhow, hope you all had a nice Christmas.

[Thoronas]

this is my new best friend (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8;mid=1134572017165688245;num=67;pa ge=1) You may have already seen it omni but its a updated list of hunting grounds post patch. The two options for your lvl that you havent already tried is riverine site A which sounds....bad... and crawlers nest with bees and worker crawlers vs bees and crawlers. I'm sorry it's been so crappy for you getting a pt but congrats on lvling nin to 75.

Happy New Year.

[Omni]

riverine site A, have yet to go there will try that out since its a capped area. sounds interesting and from the pictures, it looks beautiful.

cn, well i had thought about cn and i really dislike cn. way too much crap goes on there, i dont even like to lvl there with other jobs. ill give it a shot however, never know, i might find a good spot.

yea the pt thing isnt really something i can rely on. no one will invite you and no one will join you sort of thing. i can muster maybe 2-3 members, maybe b/c they dont check my name before they join but it stalls about there. /shrug

[Thoronas]

I was fighting in riverine last night. It was an ls event so I wasn't soloing but birds were easy as hell to charm and they were almost all T. The exp might not be great because the birds are mostly higher lvl than you but they were doing pretty good against the hippogryphs. Me and asmn friend were easily able to duo firedrakes. Fun times and yes it is a beautiful place.

[Omni]

im in phomnia aquaducts right now trying to just force my way through lv. 40. i have about 2.5k left and i think ill just suck it up and kill dc->t mobs with a 2hr gloop. xp is ok, slimes are great but dont attack too hard, fights are pretty long. i dont have pm2-4 finished, do i need to have it done to be able to goto riverine site a01?

[Hyrist]

We interrupt this flame war for a Hyristian service annoucnement



I'll just note an issue I have come accorst expirenceing with Bsts in party.

Their pets do tend to give the mob a bit more TP, therefore its a little more frequent to see an Enemy WS. Also the "Sic" Command is a bit too unperdictable. These are some things that SE could improve easially in further updates. (Pet Subdel blow and a option lit for Sic)

On the issue with BST damage vrs Warrior. You are and will always see a Warrior puntching out more numbers than a BST, this is because Warrior stands alone while BST has a pet with him. However, as Party Bst ajust their gear more for damage dealing, as opposed to Charisma, you'll see that signifigant gap close up rather quickily.

Adjustments are being made in both soloing and in parties. From what people have been doing lately on my server, it makes me feel sorry for those who jumped the gun and decided to quit. Still, there is quite some time before we know the full impact of this.

we now return you to your regularly scedualed argument

[Omni]

adjustments as in peoples attitudes towards bst in pt? im not sure what experices you have had and the frequency of them but i sure have a hell of a time trying to get things going in a pt. granted you might have had a few experiences with a bst in pt but i do not really think that is a trend that will likely be followed by the masses. my server is different from yours but i doubt that the player attitude is any different.

so i guess if you'd want to make a middle of the road, blanket statement about how us bsts dont know the effects of this update then yea, you are correct. we dont know the full impact. however, it is not you that needs to cope with the uncertainty of your job that you enjoyed so much.

[little ninja]

adjustments as in peoples attitudes towards bst in pt? im not sure what experices you have had and the frequency of them but i sure have a hell of a time trying to get things going in a pt. granted you might have had a few experiences with a bst in pt but i do not really think that is a trend that will likely be followed by the masses. my server is different from yours but i doubt that the player attitude is any different.

so i guess if you'd want to make a middle of the road, blanket statement about how us bsts dont know the effects of this update then yea, you are correct. we dont know the full impact. however, it is not you that needs to cope with the uncertainty of your job that you enjoyed so much.

that being said i went out at lvl 70 an spent around 5 hours+ a night for 3 nights just seeking. i tried places where a pt may go, i tried sitting in jeuno as well as the nation i was crafting in. i did material farming, an powder farming. an in all that time i had gotten no invites. finally ls event time came up dynamis jeuno. so i swap to my ninja. an just then i get a tell from a 72 pt. they said there 71 sam had left the pt 30 mins ago, an they had his replacement coming who just logged on. but now they need a tank..

how odd i was seeking when their sam had left. yet i never got an invite but they could wait 30 mins for a new replacement. people can talk about gear, they can talk about bst+jug damage. but players never come out an mention that FFXI community does not an never will look outside the box. they go to the same exp spot for 12 different jobs. they lvl with the same ol /subjob. an still sterotype jobs just because brady guide says so.. "OMFG dont get the taru, brady guide says they make horrible tanks, "hey gusy thanks for the invite, what we fighting" " i dunno what you suggest?" " gobs in cape are great exp for our lvl an nobody camps them", "OMFG dude i only go to boyada tree"

[busdriver]

Dunno if they are party friendly just yet, but I've seen a FEW beastmaster in partys lately (majority of them were low levels in 20's and 30's). I myself (bst59/whm30) have yet to see an invite thrown my way. I've had my flag up for the past 2 or 3 days while I craft and farm up some gil, since haubergeon jumped from 5 mil to almost 15 mil in less than 2 weeks -.-. But I think it's just a matter of time before we start getting invites. Only thing I'm worried about is that I'm going to have to start impressing parties with UBER gear, instead of impressing myself with the bare minimum.

[little ninja]

Dunno if they are party friendly just yet, but I've seen a FEW beastmaster in partys lately (majority of them were low levels in 20's and 30's). I myself (bst59/whm30) have yet to see an invite thrown my way. I've had my flag up for the past 2 or 3 days while I craft and farm up some gil, since haubergeon jumped from 5 mil to almost 15 mil in less than 2 weeks -.-. But I think it's just a matter of time before we start getting invites. Only thing I'm worried about is that I'm going to have to start impressing parties with UBER gear, instead of impressing myself with the bare minimum.

thing is i dont think you will get the normal invites unless there is nobody else seeking. S.E put the notions in players minds that we are party jobs. so before patch 0, since the patch 1. in 70 lvls worth.

[Omni]

Only thing I'm worried about is that I'm going to have to start impressing parties with UBER gear, instead of impressing myself with the bare minimum.

this is one big reason why i enjoy bst. i dont need to have great gear, i can exp in gear that is 10 levels outdated and be perfectly happy. when you begin to party, your gear is more important, since the less you perform, the less effective you party will be, especially if you are melee.

as a bst, i can wear wtfever i choose. if i dont have +15str or +30acc its not a big deal. i dont need to get the best gear possible for my level. the only gear i do put some gil into are +chr rings and my axe. if i die or fail to drop some 200 dmg raging axe, no biggie, my pet will still love me just as much.

[busdriver]

this is one big reason why i enjoy bst. i dont need to have great gear, i can exp in gear that is 10 levels outdated and be perfectly happy. when you begin to party, your gear is more important, since the less you perform, the less effective you party will be, especially if you are melee.

as a bst, i can wear wtfever i choose. if i dont have +15str or +30acc its not a big deal. i dont need to get the best gear possible for my level. the only gear i do put some gil into are +chr rings and my axe. if i die or fail to drop some 200 dmg raging axe, no biggie, my pet will still love me just as much.

**HIGH FIVE**

I think the only thing uber i've ever bought was haubergeon, and I ended up selling it and gave the gil to a friend (quit, but came back ^^; ). Oh, and valkyries mask, but it was 200-300k when I bought it, now its like 3 mil. Right now im about to be 60, havent got around to buying kabrakans on account of its 1-1.3 mil on my server. Currently using bst AF, hume pants, light staff, darksteel axe, balance buckler, 2x fang earing, 2x lv. 36 non-hq CHR + STR rings, some cheap ass mantle, corsette, spike necklace, bird whistle, reraise gorget, and life belt. Works just fine for me.

P.S. and I use rolanberry pies for exping, 10k stack >:D