http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/674/674993p1.html

It's obvious whoever wrote this article knows NOTHING about FFXI. It's so aggravating and annoying, because they pick a person like this to actually do the set up for the xbox 360 beta version of FFXI.

The whole thing reads like nothing but complaints about the set up for FFXI which has been familar to PS2 and PC FFXI players since it came out, so it's nothing new! He complains about the waiting during installation, the updates, the POL program, the "dated interface" (WTF does he expect? a new interface just for 360 players!), and outdated visuals.

Playing japanese version of FFXI on 360 sounds just as difficult as it was on PS2, but what does the guy expect?! The POL setup is no different than the PS2 or PC version. It's rediculous how a guy like this, expects a game that's a multiplatform MMORPG (something that's never been done before) to just do away with certain things that he finds inconvient. In order for them to all work together, they all have to play the same ya moron!

I don't know, maybe this guy is another one of those people who thinks installations processes like this don't belong on a console. Well he needs to get over it. Does he want another everquest online adventures that runs off the disc but doesn't evolve?? It's just frustrating, cause all of his arguments are things we have known all about for 3 years!

I just think these people who complain that not enough is done to improve the xbox 360 version are just plain stupid and ignorant! The game is 3 years old, yes, but it's not as if they game is not supported anymore! It's not like people have stopped playing it on ps2 and PC, and they're remaking it on xbox 360 to revive it. No no no, that's not how it's going down! They're releasing it on xbox 360 to open it to a wider audience, it's the same game, just a new system. Expecting NEW FEATURES, cause it's on a new system is just plain idiotic. As long as the PS2 version is supported, these morons need to remember that everything happening on the xbox 360 version, MUST BE possible on the ps2 version as well.

EDIT ADD: And honestly, I don't know if it's just me, but I don't know how people can ever call FFXI's graphics outdated and old looking. Maybe on PS2 with their low res, they look pretty bad. However on PC and xbox 360, I still think they look amazing for an MMORPG. So much richness, and beauty in the enviorments, and characters.

Lol, that was a really bad review I think he got dumped by his GF or something prior to posting.

P.S. I for one really like the background music on Playonline. :(

Okay...bashing an MMORPG based solely on it's log-in screen.......


If people like that can get jobs at IGN, I'm sure I could apply and own that website in a month.

FFXI looks like crap compared to Everquest 2 or WoW running on high-end PCs at high settings, I know cause I used to play both, so his complaint about graphics is valid.

FFXI does take a very long time to install and update, it takes twice as long to install and update than any other MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played pretty much all of them - I can probably Install/Update Everquest with all the 5 or so expansions it has faster than FFXI which only has 2 expansions, so that is also valid.

Many MMORRPGs I've played have improved User Interface throughout the game's life, infact in World Of Warcraft and EQ2 the UI has been tweaked and improved many, many times, the WoW UI today, is much better than the WoW UI of last year, but FFXI has the same UI today than it did 2 years ago... so that complaint is also valid.

I really don't see how any of what he's saying is ignorant, he has many valid points, you are the one that's ignorant.

FFXI looks like crap compared to Everquest 2 or WoW running on high-end PCs at high settings, I know cause I used to play both, so his complaint about graphics is valid.

FFXI does take a very long time to install and update, it takes twice as long to install and update than any other MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played pretty much all of them - I can probably Install/Update Everquest with all the 5 or so expansions it has faster than FFXI which only has 2 expansions, so that is also valid.

Many MMORRPGs I've played have improved User Interface throughout the game's life, infact in World Of Warcraft and EQ2 the UI has been tweaked and improved many, many times, the WoW UI today, is much better than the WoW UI of last year, but FFXI has the same UI today than it did 2 years ago... so that complaint is also valid.

I really don't see how any of what he's saying is ignorant, he has many valid points, you are the one that's ignorant.

Did you even read it? I don't think so, he's complaning about the login interface, not about the graphics. And if you do a res hack, FFXI looks tons better then shitty EQ2.

Edit: Ah, you edited your post from what you first had up there...

But, I would pick apart what you said, but I don't feel like it, it's 3am.

I use res hack and FFXI doesn't even looks 1/10th as good as Everquest 2, it doesnt even look better than WoW which already is a not so good looking game.

Don't even get me started on EQ2 or WoW. Games are not all about graphics. It's about presentation also, and just artistic quality. EQ2 is like anytown generic fantasy world. The developers don't really have any inspiration when they create the character models, and they look lifeless, and artificial.

WoW is a little bit better in the artistic aspect than EQ2 is, but the game is nothing but a big PVP fest, and fans of the game just can't admit it. I like the team work aspect of FFXI, PVP is treated like a side sport in FFXI, in WoW, PVP is the entire friggin end game pretty much! WoW is one of the few games I've played also where the female characters are actually butt ugly lol

Back on the topic of artistic quality is amazing. It doesn't need updated graphics, because the characters are so rich in imagination and creativity, that they seem more alive than even the most recent games with the most advance graphics. They live and breath, and the personality of the player really fuels the characters appearance of life even more.

Not to mention, the friggin cutscenes! Why the hell no other MMORPG has taken a hint at what FFXI has laid down, but the missions, and the amazing cutscenes using the game's IN GAME graphics, instead of prerendered stuff are just truely impressive. Tell me another MMORPG that does this? As far as I can remember, the rest just have stupid NPCs, that stand there, maybe have voice overs, but just stand there and do nothing nonetheless, and give you a journal to read. Never anything visually entertaining to watch.

Yea, you can't trust these commercial sites that seemingly dedicate themselves to the gaming industry. Even channels like G4 have skewed opinions that weigh more heavily on outside funding contributions than actual gameplay. Game Pro does the exact same thing all the time, and we all know they recieve free accounts just for slipping WoW into every single article somehow, or hyping up the bugged out game immensely in a seemingly random editorial about nothing.

It's all about the benefits. Obviously he didn't get a free FFXI account so he's going to bitch about the POL interface. I spend, what, all of half a minute in POL getting to FFXI? I mindlessly press a few buttons and then I'm in the game, damn that encumbersome interface!!!

Considering how solid the X360 live interface is, playonline is a dramatic step back, in that it forces players to go through it... ideally it would smoothly integrate the playonline interface into the X360 dashboard...

as it stands, this 360 FFXI is simply a lazy cynical port, with the intent of slightly widening the player base of an aging MMORPG.

Get into the a play session of the beta version of X360 FFXI, and you'll find a dated game running on new hardware. In still shots, the game may look like it's been improved some over the PS2 title, but in motion, the changes don't make for a particularly attractive X360 showcase. The biggest culprit is frame rate, with the game chugging to keep up with large-scale environments and the large number of potential players, just like it did on the PS2. Character models and environmental detail are also too low for a reasonable next generation title.

Relative to other X360 titles then, FFXI is soundly relegated as the last generation hand me down that it is.

In otherwords, trash (for a new game machine).

Double Post Edited:
The only merit that FFXI has over most other MMOs is the fact that its art style is still among the best of any MMO in the last 5 or so years. It's a shame it isn't coupled with a reasonable game engine.

Considering how solid the X360 live interface is, playonline is a dramatic step back, in that it forces players to go through it... ideally it would smoothly integrate the playonline interface into the X360 dashboard...

as it stands, this 360 FFXI is simply a lazy cynical port, with the intent of slightly widening the player base of an aging MMORPG.

An Aging MMORPG? There is no such thing, MMORPGs get better with age. People still play crap like the first everquest, and dark age of camelot, yet you call FFXI and aging MMORPG, when it was only released in the states 2 years ago (only 1 year before WoW.) How rediculous can you get.

And you're sounding just as ignorant as the guy who wrote the IGN article. If you know how FFXI works, you can't just integrate POL into the xbox 360 dashboard! The friend list doesn't work the same way, it's not run off of microsoft's xbox live servers! It's ran all by square-enix still, and POL is required, because this is a multiplatform game! They all need to be the same in terms of the programs they use, otherwise they wouldn't function together properly. All FFXI players need to have the same features as any other FFXI to function, and keep FFXI workin the way it is.

For example, PS2 FFXI Player A starts talkin to XBOX 360 FFXI Player B. Player B wants to add Player A as a friend. This wouldn't be possible without POL installed. Let's say the xbox 360 version totally threw out the idea of POL, they wouldn't be able to become friends with anyone else in FFXI, they wouldn't be able to send and receive messages from anyone else on PS2 or PC version. Xbox 360's dashboard is basically a windows operating system, and POL is just another program opening within the windows program. It's not that complicated. It's like the PC version, on a console.

EDIT: By becoming friends, i basically mean managing your friend list in my previous paragraph. If POL wasn't on xbox 360, they would only have the xbox live friend list to work off, and obviously, PS2 and PC players wouldn't have xbox live.

I think FFXI is a more "beatiful" game in terms of the art, but graphically speaking EQ2 simply has more polygons, bigger textures, etc and thats a fact. I never said graphics were all that mattered in a game - I only said his point is valid, FFXI's graphics DO suck. There's games from 10 years ago that have good artistic style even until this day, does that mean the graphics dont suck? No, the graphics do suck, they just have a nice artistry.

As for cutscenes... In-game cutscenes in FFXI have a nice cinematic style that help tell the story well, but the graphics are still sub-par.

I think FFXI is a more "beatiful" game in terms of the art, but graphically speaking EQ2 simply has more polygons, bigger textures, etc and thats a fact. I never said graphics were all that mattered in a game - I only said his point is valid, FFXI's graphics DO suck. There's games from 10 years ago that have good artistic style even until this day, does that mean the graphics dont suck? No, the graphics do suck, they just have a nice artistry.

As for cutscenes... In-game cutscenes in FFXI have a nice cinematic style that help tell the story well, but the graphics are still sub-par.

In the end, what's your point? Games from 10 years ago may have worse graphics and good artistry, but do I stop playing them? No. Ocarina of time is prime example. Wind Waker clearly better in graphics, but Ocarina of Time beats it in every other friggin possible way.

Even with the "sub-par" graphics in the cutscenes, they're still impressive as hell to watch, and all these other MMORPGs with their "better graphics" don't offer as entertaining of a visual experience. Better graphics, sure, but more enjoyable to look at? No.

im not the most educated person on graphics, but i agree that i spend a whole few minutes on POL just to get to the FFXI interface. i disagree with WoW or EQ2 looking better then FFXI, the enviroment in WoW is cartoony also the characters armor almost blended into the character itself there is no real harmony with players either, its usually every man for himself unless your lvl 60. on the pvp servers the lvl 60's run around killing lvl 25 players! which is effertless to a lvl 60 so why do it at all. im not a big fan of letting the xbox onto the FFXI anyways why didnt they do it with the regular xbox i would ask? it had online capability as well.

What I'd like to know (b/c apparently he can only compare it to is ps2) is if the graphics and framerate are on par/better than a top of the line gaming pc. I'm not sure why he expected it to not use POL. Its how SE keeps track of it all, seems like it should seem pretty obvious that they wouldnt totally refigure it just for one (of the three possible) consoles. Hell, its the reason you dont have to have xbox live to play it. (Atleast thats what they originally said.) It seems like he could have summed up the entire experience by saying "Its on par with a high end pc." But apparently he'd rather write two pages about how the graphics aren't as good as PGR.
I'm sure putting in all the info to POL w/o a mouse is a pain, but how often do you actually have to do it? Like once ever? Thats the reason they put in the shortcut button on the POL mainpage. I'm on pc and dont use my mouse to log in anymore.

In the end, what's your point? Games from 10 years ago may have worse graphics and good artistry, but do I stop playing them? No. Ocarina of time is prime example. Wind Waker clearly better in graphics, but Ocarina of Time beats it in every other friggin possible way.

Even with the "sub-par" graphics in the cutscenes, they're still impressive as hell to watch, and all these other MMORPGs with their "better graphics" don't offer as entertaining of a visual experience. Better graphics, sure, but more enjoyable to look at? No.

Can you read? My point is that the reviewers remarks regarding the FFXI's graphics are entirely VALID and are not ignorant in any way. Geez how many times do I have to repeat myself. Check your rabid fanboyism before you go calling a reviewer ignorant. If I was in his position I'd give the same review, even though I love FFXI I wouldn't let that in the way of giving an honest opinion which is what the guy did, the graphics suck, the UI needs works, installation time should be half of what it is now, period. Deal with it and move on.

someone surely will not like the game. but still it's sooo biased IGN shouldn't even put it up on the site.

IGN has always hated FFXI, is anyone really surprised?

Anyway, FFXI has a REALLY low polygon count compared to EQ2/WoW but imho they've done a great job hiding it. The texture work is supreme.
I've played EQ2 on a nvidie 7800GTX SLI, it looked damn nice but I still prefer looking at my FFXI character cause she doesn't look like she's mentally challenged. The new SOGA models help a lot but EQ2 still feels like plastic, the zones can only be described as unimpressive beyond simple polygon count. (Note, I'm only a 25 wizard in EQ2.)
WoW looks nice and all, but the art direction grows old too fast. With a modified drawdistance in FFXI most places still look amazing although they were designed for a PS2. Wow very seldom felt amazing. I've played wow to 60 twice and plz, someone give me my time back.

Playing FFXI at 1600x900 with drawdistance 10.~


I'm so looking foward to FFO2 though, that'll most likely use PS3/XBOX360 as baseline. Knowing how insanely good SE is at doing graphics I bet that'll be a marvel for the eyes. (Cause, admit it, SE games look damn nice even when limited by the PS2. :P)

I agree IGN letting that artical post was stupid, that guy is also a moron, he is complaing about things that we all have delt with for 2 1/2 years and the graphics and all have been explained, SE wanted an equal exeriance for all and so the graphics and abilities are limited to what the PS2 can do. Oh and about the interface of POL....what is wrong with it, it is fine like it is.

An Aging MMORPG? There is no such thing, MMORPGs get better with age. People still play crap like the first everquest, and dark age of camelot, yet you call FFXI and aging MMORPG, when it was only released in the states 2 years ago (only 1 year before WoW.) How rediculous can you get.

And you're sounding just as ignorant as the guy who wrote the IGN article. If you know how FFXI works, you can't just integrate POL into the xbox 360 dashboard! The friend list doesn't work the same way, it's not run off of microsoft's xbox live servers! It's ran all by square-enix still, and POL is required, because this is a multiplatform game! They all need to be the same in terms of the programs they use, otherwise they wouldn't function together properly. All FFXI players need to have the same features as any other FFXI to function, and keep FFXI workin the way it is.

For example, PS2 FFXI Player A starts talkin to XBOX 360 FFXI Player B. Player B wants to add Player A as a friend. This wouldn't be possible without POL installed. Let's say the xbox 360 version totally threw out the idea of POL, they wouldn't be able to become friends with anyone else in FFXI, they wouldn't be able to send and receive messages from anyone else on PS2 or PC version. Xbox 360's dashboard is basically a windows operating system, and POL is just another program opening within the windows program. It's not that complicated. It's like the PC version, on a console.

EDIT: By becoming friends, i basically mean managing your friend list in my previous paragraph. If POL wasn't on xbox 360, they would only have the xbox live friend list to work off, and obviously, PS2 and PC players wouldn't have xbox live.

Whoa, calm down there. No one is calling your mother a whore.

Just learn to accept the facts.

Yes, I understand the initial technical limitations, but POL in its entirety is far from absolutely essential to running FFXI. The qualifier to that statement is that POL currently does contain much of the code needed to get FFXI up and running, and you're right, POL friends list is tightly integrated; but that doesn't mean you can't strip out these essential elements and redesign a new POL/X360 Live interface that integrates the best of both worlds. Maybe it would've been technically challenging, maybe it wouldn't have been cost effective, but it's far from impossible.

Moreover, my original point still stands; for whatever reason they didn't do it, the entire X360 port reeks of cheap cynicsm; increasing resolution? That's the only upgrade a machine 20 times more powerful than the original target machine gets? No increase in frame rate? Before FFXI fanboys jump on me for this statement, yes I'm aware that the game mechanics of FFXI is closely 'tied' to the frame rate, but that doesn't mean it can't be done, or that its even that difficult to do.

In absolute terms, FFXI may not be the oldest MMORPG on the block, but its definetly aging; 3 years since its initial release, one console generation later... it's was half a MMO generation earlier than the current spate of MMOs (WoW, L2, CoH, EQ2). Regardless of the fact that EQ1 is still played, there's no way you can deny that's an aged MMO, just like Ultima Online.
Built upon little to no foundation in MMOs back then, the game has continually gone under modification to give players more to do, but there's no denying it; it can't be compared to a new MMO built from the ground up with absolutely new tech, with the experience of previous MMOs to take lessons from.
In the same way that users might still be in EQ, but very few new users are trying it, the same could be said for FFXI; not as severe, but definetly, its growth is starting to flag, especially compared to other newer MMOs in the market.
Before you pull up the MMO charts, you'll have to note that no official figures were reported for FFXI this year; that the author simply extrapolated from last year's trend... of course many big new MMOs have been released since then.

--------------------------

The main point is that, it's depressing to see the hypocrisy (calling others ignorant), fanboys so eager to jump in and defend their MMO of choice that they can't see the meat of critcism; simply that FFXI is a lazy/sloppy conversion to the X360, taking advantage of very little of the X360's advantages... as a X360 title it is probably one of the worst (examples of showcasing what the new console can do); it isn't so much a comment on FFXI as a MMORPG. Many have already waxxed lyrical on its many pros and cons.

And honestly, I don't know if it's just me, but I don't know how people can ever call FFXI's graphics outdated and old looking. Maybe on PS2 with their low res, they look pretty bad. However on PC and xbox 360, I still think they look amazing for an MMORPG. So much richness, and beauty in the enviorments, and characters.

Because it has low res, low color textures, with limited frame rate, no native anti aliasing, ansitropic filtering, shader effects, heavy popups (as opposed to fogging in, which looks much better.. at least when not over done).

The game still looks decent (largely due to the art style), but that doesn't stop it from looking outdated. Or old looking.

/blacklist.
What a worthless review.. Never mind him, no one will listen. Real FFXI fans know he is talking out of his "Upper part of the male genitial".

I have a complaint; that was one of the most annoying articles I've read. I didn't even finish it because it sounded like a rant that had no point. What the hell kind of information was I expected to gain from this? He could have made the article a lot shorter and less whiny and we would have gotten his point, even though it was a stupid one.

Firstly, Ockman, you're taking the review way too personal. Chill a bit.

Secondly FFXI was always going to need POL. There's no way around it. Sure it would have been possible for them to jazz it up a bit for the 360, or use higher res textures. however I get the feeling that SE are a little more conserned with getting final products out at the moment, such as the new expansion pack, the new patch, or other games rather than making a beta version of a game look pretty. Ockman has also correctly mentioned why POL is needed, while it would have been good if the friend list intergrated that might not be possible, it like saying why can't I talk to my ICQ contacts using MSN, also by cutting out POL 360 users would be missing features available to people on other platforms, such as greetings cards or Vana'diel Tribune. Sure, these are small features but they all give FFXI something that no other game has.

If something was going to be cut out I would have much rather seen XBox Live cut out. Its friend lists aren't needed in FFXI since it has its own, but I doubt Microsoft would allow that since people couldn't recieve cross-game invites.

Also as far as the graphics go remodelling everything that has been put into FFXI over the last 3 years and rewritting the engine from scratch would have been a big task. As well as giving 360 users an advantage over other users which would have discouraged SE, MS probably wanted the game out ASAP to get Japanese players interested in the 360. They need all the help they can get over there.

im not a big fan of letting the xbox onto the FFXI anyways why didnt they do it with the regular xbox i would ask? it had online capability as well.

They tried but Microsoft wouldn't allow them to use POL, they backed down on the 360 though for some reason. For the original XBox they wanted it to soley use XBox Live.

/blacklist.
What a worthless review.. Never mind him, no one will listen. Real FFXI fans know he is talking out of his "Upper part of the male genitial".

1) The vitriol in the post is already insulting/offensive enough... you don't need kid gloves on the other insult.

2) The phrase Talking out of your dick... is probably more reserved for guys that ... you know I'm not even sure the phrase is supposed to be that. It's "Talking out of your ass." ... as in what you have to say is crap. "Thinking with your dick" indicates a lack of proper judgement due to male lust...

I don't really care what IGN says, they are biased, we all know this.
EQ2 has better graphics than FFXI hands down, FFXI has better character design I think.
WOW just has horrible character design, when I quit EQ2 graphics weren't on my mind too much really, just a good game.

POL is a necessary evil for interfacing with the multiple platforms this game covers but the graphics are dated, no helping that without a complete redesign of the game and moving it to the PC only.
Gameplay wise this game is still awsome.

square needs to just update the graphics within the next year because the ps2 is about obsolete now, and isnt that the reason they gave for not updating them?

v_v;

FFXI > All.

I am so not biased!

Lol, all I have to say is what do you guys expect from a Review (aka. Blackmail site). Most of those messed up review sites you find online are going to give a review based on how the company treats them, Square-Enix if you look at their marketing section they are very cheap there. It's likely that they sacrifice their marketing section to produce games and storylines at their best.

As far as polygon count go for FFXI this you can not completly blame on them, at the moment FFXI is hindered by existing on PS2. This means a next gen. console which could easily dish out many more in polygon counts won't be benefiting the most out of it. If FFXI does decide to drop PS2 in the future though then it provides the chance to up the polygon counts and really make the game look lustrous.

Outside of that the game really does it's best given the platform it's supporting. Now if anyone were to state that WoW looks better then FFXI that is an absolute laugh, like someone here already stated WoW uses very cartoony color schemes and character models oh please every character you can choose looks like they are in a stupor.

As far as game size I've looked that up actually, and the complaint of update is horrendously stupid. EQ and EQ2 size wise are smaller then FFXI, to add to this there really are only two methods possible you can do for updates. You either do multiple small updates in which players will complain of it's frequency they have to update, or you do one massive update in which players complain in how long it takes. There is no win either way, and no possible way to shorten the time for the download itself.

This is data being transferred after all it's illogical to expect 56k, DSLs, or other connections to download and unzip something instantly. The time Square-Enix says it'll take on each update matches to what is the best possible give each file size. You look at EQ updates and the updates are usually 2MB-5MB, FFXI is dealing 10MB-20+MB so ofcourse it's going to take awhile. So far every update has introduced enough new things to the game to warrant the download times it always takes.

Now I would be worried if it took 30 min. to only introduce 10 items and that's it. No new areas, No new functions, No new quests/missions, none of that stuff then I'd worry about their time for the updates.

Lastly about the interface again I have to point back to the systems that FFXI currently supports as well as the speed limit they went with. If they change that I'm quite certain you could see FFXI absolutly crushing what you'd see from the other MMORPGs as much of the 3D models and such demonstrate that people have done with FFXIs models. They've shown that FFXIs models are capable of going even better then they are now, just they are intentionally reduced do to the systems they current support.

A person doing a review should of kept all of this in mind while making his statements, but like I stated review sites only sweet talk the companies that line their wallets more.

Blackmail site?

One (sub)site gives your game of choice a negative impression and you slander the entire industry?

That my friend is ignorance, prejudice, hypocrisy speaking.

They're none of the qualities you need when objectively assessing something.

Not to say that particular review was great or anything, but I'm urging all of you to think with clearer minds.

What keeps you enjoying something; is it more the emotional/psychological attachment due to large time (and other) investment that causes you to feel the need to justify your continued investment?

Understanding that things can be flawed despite your support (and maybe enjoyment) and that enjoying things that can still be flawed is one of the keys to enjoying life more. It's good to have a team to support, but at the same time, life isn't a case of 'them and us'. To be able to see and accept things for what they are then will allow you to enjoy them more naturally then otherwise.

...Why bother reading a review on a game that's been out for 4 years that you've been playing for 2?

Blackmail site?

One (sub)site gives your game of choice a negative impression and you slander the entire industry?

That my friend is ignorance, prejudice, hypocrisy speaking.

They're none of the qualities you need when objectively assessing something.

Not to say that particular review was great or anything, but I'm urging all of you to think with clearer minds.

What keeps you enjoying something; is it more the emotional/psychological attachment due to large time (and other) investment that causes you to feel the need to justify your continued investment?

Understanding that things can be flawed despite your support (and maybe enjoyment) and that enjoying things that can still be flawed is one of the keys to enjoying life more. It's good to have a team to support, but at the same time, life isn't a case of 'them and us'. To be able to see and accept things for what they are then will allow you to enjoy them more naturally then otherwise.

LOL, I work in Marketing. I've seen review sites slander my companies names because we wouldn't pay for a nicer review or given them a dandly little chocolate sample for christmas. The whole Review site and critic industry I find a complete joke, sorry but that is the hidden truth. If you really want great advertising you either have to pay HUGE bucks or be someones b****.

Outside of that the Review that IGN put up just ranted and raved about having to go through POL. The idiot doing the review seems to think that the whole online central hub thing that is Xbox Live is supose to be the sole support for any friendslist or other such menus. At the same time this ignorant person is likely signing up and registering his name with other sites with their own seperate friendlist, wishlist, etc.. on multiple other online sites.

Why don't he complain about that as well, why should we have to download IM to talk to one group of friends and yet also have ICQ for another set. Lol, I mean can even go into why the hell do web based IMs and such not have the same list of friends that the software IM I downloaded have. The problem the guy is complaining about is something that's been in existance of Online function for years.

He couldn't find anything else to really slander the game so he slanders that. It's the perfect thing to slander a company for that doesn't give them what they think they should get.

You know realise the original article isn't even a review of the software.

In the context of where its posted, its simply information for X360 owners; the guy is telling it as it is; it's a game that (for whatever reason) doesn't attempt to improve upon what it has been for the last 2-3 years, by taking advantage of the improved X360 interface and hardware.

The guy isn't telling people the game sucks; the merits and virtues of the game have already been covered in depth ages ago, by many people.

If you don't have a means of playing FFXI outside of the Xbox 360 and you really want to play the game, you may want to keep an eye out for the new version as its release approaches.

Simply it is an article detailing what is or isn't different that you'd expect on the X360.

Moreover Macht, despite the lack of integrity from some sites, not all sites are devoid of integrity. Hell, not even all reporters/journalists on a site that is 'compromised' is devoid of integrity.
Square-Enix games aren't exactly automatically panned by IGN either:
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/666/666876p3.html

Alright maybe i should reword how I was stating it. Say I give a review some thousands of dollar or whatever they like then they will put in good words for a product I ask them to (Hence my statement of big bucks or being someones b****). If I want them to put in good words for all my stuff I'm dishing out a hell of a lot.

Whatever though, nothing is really going to change my view of review sites or critic sites. All I ever use them for is to see bits of the game, the storyline, as well as it's play and ignore the crap they spew either way.

At best to accomidate Xbox Live I could see the game just having a straight shot were it gets you to FFXI's "Select Character", "Create Character", "Delete Character", and back to POL selections. Good or Bad the POL section is integrated into FFXI as I see it taking that section out seems like it would be more difficult then that journalist is giving credit to it for.

If you want to give the journalist a fair reason for his standing then I'd say he lacks greatly an understanding of the programming end and what would be required to remove POL all together.

EQ2 has the poly count i admit. I never get to see the new model but the original models were pretty bad... waste of PC power.

DQ8, RE4, FFXI, none of these games use as high poly as EQ2 I believe... but still look a ton better. Good artist can draw beautiful human figure with a few lines. While others can render their image to death and look horrible.

I don't think that FFXI graphic is any worse than WoW.
When you talk about graphic quality in a game there are multiple things need to be considered.

- Polygon count: FFXI actually has on-par or better than WoW in this aspect. If there is one thing the PS2 does very well, that's the amount of polygon it can push out. WoW has quite low polygon count especially in character model. Most armor pieces are applied textures on character model. While in FFXI when you switch the armor pieces, the models them-self were being replaced.
- New technology: per-pixel-shader in mind. WoW is better.
- Amount of textures concurrently displayed: This is the aspect that the PS2 is handling very poorly. The system has a ridiculously small amount of video memory. That is the reason why you saw texture repetition happens a lot in FFXI.
- Textures quality: Both FFXI and WoW do this well. However, I think FFXI is better in this deparment. If you take a closer look, you will be amaze by the quality and detail of FFXI texture.
- World design: Both WoW and FFXI do this very well. I kinda like the FFXI world better. Some place in the old FFXI world still look amazing (Valkum beach, Quicksand cave...). New areas are absolutely beautiful.
- Character design: This is the area where FFXI is superior. I like all of them more than any race in WoW.
- Animation: This is the area where FFXI blows WoW out of the water. Every race has different animation. Even on the same race, different gender has different animation. This including combat animation, weapon skill animation, emote... So detail, so fluid, FFXI animations are light year ahead of WoW and EQ2.
- Special effect: This is also an area where FFXI is better than WoW too. In WoW, spell effects look the same from level 1 to 60. Not in FFXI, Level 4 spells and ancient magic could give any new blm a wet dream. The skill chain special effects, the weapon skill special effects, they all look incredible.

If you have a chance, run FFXI at 1600x1200, texture resolution 1280x1280 no compression, drawing distance 10. You will be surprised by how good Vana'diel looks.

EQ2 has the poly count i admit. I never get to see the new model but the original models were pretty bad... waste of PC power.

DQ8, RE4, FFXI, none of these games use as high poly as EQ2 I believe... but still look a ton better. Good artist can draw beautiful human figure with a few lines. While others can render their image to death and look horrible.

You know there is actually a philosophy of that you can find among some of the more famoush artist. It goes along the idea that you can find greater beauty in less. Some models or designs are better of will less detail to them then if you add to much detail. A teaser of sorts, find what really needs more detail and what can be left as illusory debate to the viewers mind.

FFXI looks like crap compared to Everquest 2 or WoW running on high-end PCs at high settings, I know cause I used to play both, so his complaint about graphics is valid.

You're the real idiot. The graphics on WOW isn't so hawt. WTF you're smoking? I've played WOW for over a year and FFXI for almost 3 years. STFU, you know nothing n00b.

You know there is actually a philosophy of that you can find among some of the more famoush artist. It goes along the idea that you can find greater beauty in less. Some models or designs are better of will less detail to them then if you add to much detail. A teaser of sorts, find what really needs more detail and what can be left as illusory debate to the viewers mind.

I disagree with that idea.

EQ2 looks "bad" despite its high detail/technology because they had a poor designer, or whatever you call the role/person/job. Give the game a good designer and it most assuredly can blow any game out of the water as far as looks is concerned.

It really has little to do with philosophical mumbojumbo IMHO (no offense, just don't know how else to describe what you wrote).

And yes, FFXI's graphics (as well as music, IMHO) really is dated. It's not so dated that it's downright offensive to look at (Asheron's Call1 falls into this category IMHO), but it's still put to shame by more modern titles.

If the typical level of visual quality of games being released these days is a '10', I'd rate FFXI no higher than a 6.

FFXI looks like crap compared to Everquest 2 or WoW running on high-end PCs at high settings, I know cause I used to play both, so his complaint about graphics is valid.

FFXI does take a very long time to install and update, it takes twice as long to install and update than any other MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played pretty much all of them - I can probably Install/Update Everquest with all the 5 or so expansions it has faster than FFXI which only has 2 expansions, so that is also valid.

Many MMORRPGs I've played have improved User Interface throughout the game's life, infact in World Of Warcraft and EQ2 the UI has been tweaked and improved many, many times, the WoW UI today, is much better than the WoW UI of last year, but FFXI has the same UI today than it did 2 years ago... so that complaint is also valid.

I really don't see how any of what he's saying is ignorant, he has many valid points, you are the one that's ignorant.

Really? well since im bored out of my mind I decided to take the time to make a comparison of a few MMORPGs (and guild wars), you be the judge of the "crap" graphics...

Note I tried to find pictures they show off character models and the envirment, however since I didnt take pictures from the beta of WoW, trail of EQ, and guild wars trail...I hadda search IGN for the decent pictures...If you have a better one you would like to post go for it...

FFXI:
http://home.comcast.net/~buuyon/pol_2005-11-27_17-56-50-96.bmp

WoW:
http://insidermedia.ign.com/insider/image/article/661/661033/world-of-warcraft-20051024041328832.jpg

EQ2:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/547/547326/everquest-ii-20040913010821972.jpg

Edit: due to the shittactular aloud amount of [IMG[ tags alowed, the following are links...

EQ:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/everquestf016.jpg

CoH/CoV:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/638/638334/city-of-heroes-20050802101258536.jpg

L2:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/606/606556/lineage-ii-the-chaotic-chronicle-20050421112350586.jpg

GW:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/645/645612/guild-wars-20050825044532612.jpg

As you can see, FFXI is hardly "crap" in the graphic department...The only complaint one could have for ffxi is the ground textures...everything else is pretty damn good...

IMO FFXI beats L2, EQ2, EQ(well for obvoius reasons), and WoW...CoH and GW are just great looking games...

P.S. I agree with Thachsanh, for the same system requirements FFXI BLOWS WoW out of the water...Where FFXI is limited in alot of categorys from ps2, WoW doesnt use the full potential of what a PC can do, the same texture repition is even more aperent in WoW IMO...

And the animations for WoW are horrid...they dont even have an animation to put weapons away...

Whoa, calm down there. No one is calling your mother a whore.

Just learn to accept the facts.

Present us with the facts before giving us your opinions.

I had a long reply typed out, but what's the point? Every point you made was either opinion or bullshit. Why are you so passionate about graphics? Can you really expect SE to throw in some fancy water instead of developing new and original content? The graphics have been fine this far, and there's no denying that there's the possibilty of updating it in the future, so why are we complaining all of a sudden?

Somebody get this guy a box of tissues and a myspace account.

i'm sorry. i don't care what they say about polygon count. ffxi is an awesome looking game. that's not just my opinion. that's a fact.

FFXI does look great, but the real fact is that it could look better. That's the brunt of the argument from what I understood. The only thing FFXI utilizes on the X360 is its online capabilty. Nothing else, and that is why a lot of people think it sucks. It would be like playing a PlayStation port of FFVII on the Xbox. Pointless, if you aren't taking advantage of the available technology.

FFXI does look great, but the real fact is that it could look better. That's the brunt of the argument from what I understood. The only thing FFXI utilizes on the X360 is its online capabilty. Nothing else, and that is why a lot of people think it sucks. It would be like playing a PlayStation port of FFVII on the Xbox. Pointless, if you aren't taking advantage of the available technology.

Now that's not true. What if I don't own a PS and still want to play FFVII? Isnt that the reason for the PC version of the game? What's the point in re-release all the old FF game?

Now FFXI for the Xbox360 is just a ported version of the current FFXI not a entirely new game so it re-uses all the old art work. Surprise? Duh, It's just a port version and they still have to support it on the PS2. It would be nice if they have 3 separate patch sets for PS2, PC and Xbox360 but who would want to do that?

Those pics really are an excellant example of how FFXI is superior Yashin. Just look at the trees, and how they look so real on the horizon. Not all trees in FFXI have these beautiful details to them, but that's because they're older locations. Lufaise Meadows, where that picture of yours was taken is a new area, and SE obviously pushes the limits of the game further in each new expansion. Just wait til we see what's gonna be in Treasures of Aht Urgan.

WoW is being a bit pitiful with their expansion. They're adding more places, and a new race, sure. Great for them, but their new race, the blood elves look exactly like the night elves with different skin color! SE really pushes the limits of what's possible in the game everytime a new expansion comes out.

Also, remember, this game is made by the japanese, and most other MMORPGs that people compare it to, are made by americans. The japanese have a completely different view of what good game content is. The japanese value good role playing, and good story. That's why CoP, was mainly just an expansion full of missions. Great new locations, but was about the storyline in the end. It's also why PVP isn't a big thing in FFXI, the japanese don't really enjoy the competitive aspect like americans do.

SE doesn't alienate the american or european fans though as well. They threw in ballista for fans of PVP. I love how they did it too, making it more of a sport, instead of something where any idiot can come by and kill you. And they're adding some new jobs finally to keep things fresh and new for players. They're not alienating anyone. WoW does alienate certain players though! It's all focused around the damn PvP, and that's frustrating. I'm not into the constant competition aspect of a ROLE PLAYING GAME. If I want that, i'll go play a FPS. You can be a noob in the game, wanting to explore, accidently enter someone else's land, and they see you, and kill you.

EDIT: Oh, and just one more thing. About anyone, especially the person who might be complaining about ANY of the features in the xbox 360 version, or PS2 version of FFXI really should shut the hell up. Having to be playable on the PS2 is no different than a PC game having a set of minimum requirements. PC developers are forgetting alot these days that games are advancing faster than most people's PCs, and that's one of the reasons I'm mainly a console gamer. My PC is obsolete now pretty much.

But what I wanted to also say is that, he complains about an outdated game, and people on this topic go on about how some other MMORPGs might look better than FFXI. Yeah, ON PC! FFXI is still the only MMORPG that IS multiplatform, and is the only MMORPG, that maintains the complexity of any other MMORPG, but is playable on a console. Not everyone owns a PC and can enjoy games like this, but FFXI is built around the idea that every should be able to. PC MMORPG developers don't even care about consoles, and we still haven't seen a good MMORPG on a console besides FFXI. EQOA was a bad joke. We MIGHT eventually see other MMORPGs on consoles, but we still don't know when or for sure. Someday WoW fanboys might get WoW on xbox 360 or something, but until then, we'll have had our characers for a year or more on FFXI.

depends on your taste and style I guess. Arts are subjective to begin with.

I love DQ8 graphic thinking it is the most beautiful toon shading I've ever seen,
and I have a classmate to hates it at the same time.
Also there are people hating DQ8 graphic because they hate toriyama...

Anyway, just want to show you my favourite artist's... Craig Mullins...
His works are breath taking.
His brush strokes are so simple yet archeive so much. seeing for yourself

http://goodbrush.com

This is on of my favourite, an old old sketch of his.
http://goodbrush.com/cm/albums/finished_sketches/cargohold.jpg

Yashin those pics of WoW and EQ2 are not running on a high-end PC, just by looking at that wow pic I can tell Anti Aliasing isn't even on, and if it is it couldn't possibly be on beyond 2X - not to mention that its running at a very low resolution. Those EQ2 pics... I can't tell if the picture is low quality or the PC running it is weak, but it looks all washed out.

FFXI looks like crap compared to Everquest 2 or WoW running on high-end PCs at high settings, I know cause I used to play both, so his complaint about graphics is valid.

Yeah, okay. Newsflash, moron. Having Played WoW myself, I can safely say that the graphics are laughable. It looks like a high-resolution Nintendo 64 game, or the original EQ. The graphics are not good by any means, and the animation is complete crap.

FFXI= more realistic graphics style, and follows the typical FF graphics.

WoW= High resolution N64.. follows the style of those cheap ass coloring books that 3 year olds get at restaurants.

And did I mention the happy jazz music they've got playing in the background during this lengthy process? It's a real insult to the ears



www

Present us with the facts before giving us your opinions.

I had a long reply typed out, but what's the point? Every point you made was either opinion or bullshit. Why are you so passionate about graphics? Can you really expect SE to throw in some fancy water instead of developing new and original content? The graphics have been fine this far, and there's no denying that there's the possibilty of updating it in the future, so why are we complaining all of a sudden?

Somebody get this guy a box of tissues and a myspace account.

Opinion or bullshit?

bullshit that its not impossible to remove the relevant part of the POL engine and rewrite it to be aware/integrate into the X360 live environment?

lack of any significant features of not taking advantage of the X360 features/abilities makes it a cheap port?
That the game is a last generation game compared to what's on the X360?

Here's an example of what the X360 is capable of:
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/655/655559/x05-new-project-gotham-racing-3-images-20051003093644841.jpg

Relative to an X360 title then, FFXI the straight port just doesn't compare favorably.

Because it has low res, low color textures, with limited frame rate, no native anti aliasing, ansitropic filtering, shader effects, heavy popups (as opposed to fogging in, which looks much better.. at least when not over done).
All facts. Regardless of whatever financial/programming/feasibility limitations, it doesn't affect the status of those facts.

FFXI MMO been older relative to the new crop of games; L2, WoW, CoH, EQ2, GW, etc, etc... its growth rate has also reduced relative to its prime.

What's so opinionated about these facts?

They may not be presented in a fashion you like (without FFXI damage control), but I don't understand how you go from that to calling them opinions and bullshit?

Moreover, I'm simply putting the article in perspective. Its because FFXI's competition in this case aren't other MMOs but other X360 games.

If you'd take a second to clear the fog of hatred or whatever it is you've got going on, then you'd also realise that I've stated that I like FFXI graphics, recognize that they're well designed and still some of the best looking in the genre, DESPITE the technical limitations that are so damn obvious on faster machines like a good PC or a X360.

And again... I'm not complaining about FFXI, but attempting to tell you guys why the article was so negative; because its in the context of a X360 release. It just doesn't stack up well as such.

If you're really intrested in the game and have other avenues of playing it; you're better off picking up on those avenues then waiting around for the final X360 version, simply because there's no reason to wait.

Again It doesn't matter that there may be technical/financial/feasibility limitations preventing FFXI from not using POL; when your average X360 installs a 'new' X360 game that's multiplayer, they've been hyped about the X360 live environment... they're going to be confused and even angry as to why FFXI purposely takes pains (or so it seems) to avoid the sleek LIVE interface and go in favor of an unintegrated and by now clunky POL environment. They're not going to understand, or want to understand why this is the case; they're going to be annoyed with it, and at least to some extent justifiably so.

I have played FFXI WOW and EQ2 and I liked FFXI the most but I wold not say the other two look like crap -.- I played all three with all my settings maxed out and all at the same rez and to be honest...

FFXI good graphics and nice charater models
EQ2 has nice graphics but the charater models are lacking
WoW is a very pretty game...but they cared to much on graphics and not enuff on emersiveness (if that is even a word :p)

Zaptruder.....bullshit? bullshit is MS telling companies that they have to change their games software just for the 360 version, removeing POL just for 360 would be the most retarded thing I would ever hear and I bet that the 360 that pic was taken from frooze after it was taken ^.^ (if you are to slow to get that, it is refering to the crappy job they did building the 360s hardware)

Blackmail site?

One (sub)site gives your game of choice a negative impression and you slander the entire industry?

That my friend is ignorance, prejudice, hypocrisy speaking.

They're none of the qualities you need when objectively assessing something.

Not to say that particular review was great or anything, but I'm urging all of you to think with clearer minds.

What keeps you enjoying something; is it more the emotional/psychological attachment due to large time (and other) investment that causes you to feel the need to justify your continued investment?

Understanding that things can be flawed despite your support (and maybe enjoyment) and that enjoying things that can still be flawed is one of the keys to enjoying life more. It's good to have a team to support, but at the same time, life isn't a case of 'them and us'. To be able to see and accept things for what they are then will allow you to enjoy them more naturally then otherwise.

Zap ... if this is the same Zap on Ars Technica ... unless you're an IGN fanboy, you have to realize that article did not objectively discuss anything at all. Basically, the reviewer was clearly making an uneducated vitriol about an ONLINE game that is not new. Basically, he is trying to compare FFXI Xbox360 version in the same way he is trying to compare a GTA Xbox version versus the PS2 version. There is simply no way you could make ANY KIND of comparison about an agreement made between SE and Microsoft in which Microsoft is paying some generous licensing fees to have the game AVAILABLE for Xbox users to play. If it were up to SE, they wouldn't bother. Microsoft was practically begging this game to be released on the new Xbox in order to get ANY kind of customer to shore up their competition against the upcoming release of PS3.

Again, this is just Microsoft giving the Xbox system a chance to actually succeed and make a name for itself instead of going the way Sega did in the final years as a hardware console developer ...

Also, Zap, I just read another of your recent post ... and here's why an ONLINE game cannot be made better just because it is only now being allowed to run on a fancy schmancy new system ...

Basically, with all new code and all new memory addressing issues, what will prevent someone from hacking it and being able to successfully exploit the game for his/her benefit? You realize that with additional code and feed back from the server with regards to the environment (The server must also process all the input coming back from the client with regards to where the player is, etc.) there are going to be bugs and other nasty crap cropping up throughout the game.

Things like chocobo digging require precise location of where things are at any given point in time. NM spawning also requires this data. Graphics cannot just magically appear without having to redraw and restructure zones and many other aspects of the game.

I think the people here whining about the graphics should STFU first and think about the complexities of such a thing without breaking or changing the game for EXISTING platforms.

If you Xbox360 owners are gonna whine and bitch out this, why don't you just continue to play this game as how you already are? On PS2 or your PC. No one is forcing you to buy the Xbox360 version. Again, I will repeat myself ... This is simply to let Xbox owners an opportunity to play this game with their console. If they think otherwise, they're just copping themselves out as no one else is.

I don't post on Ars Technica.

And Aeni, regardless of what wrangling or corporate wheeling/dealing MS had to do, it's irrelevant to the X360 reviewer and the X360 player/owner.

The only relevant matter is how the game is relative to the context; and the context is a release for a new machine that has set its standards much higher at least on a technical level.

Read my edited reply above your recent one ... you need to really think about what your posting, because none of this makes any sense imo. Same with the reviewer. People who should be editors at IGN should be shot to let this senseless review come out without any real facts.

But it's not a review.

It's simply a news article that goes indepth into what's changed in FFXI for the X360 (very little) and then goes on to tell the reader that, there isn't a reason to wait for this version if they can get another version.

Sure its ladden with criticism, but that doesn't make it a review; it doesn't have to be fair about the games merits and cons.

And again, irrespective of whatever technical/feasibility/financial concerns there are with heavily modifying versions of FFXI from one platform to the next, it doesn't change the fact that a straight bland port as it currently is, fails to take advantage of the X360 system, fails to be impressive/showcase for the new system.

The main point then is; if you're thinking of buying the X360 version expecting some very nice X360 upgrades, then you're wasting your time. If you don't already have it, then its still no real reason to wait for the X360 version (current version is still in 'beta') over other versions.

The qualifier that he implied however, and I think a lot of you are missing is that; it's no worse a version then any of the other versions available (and the point is that it's no better).

But it's not a review.

It's simply a news article that goes indepth into what's changed in FFXI for the X360 (very little) and then goes on to tell the reader that, there isn't a reason to wait for this version if they can get another version.

Sure its ladden with criticism, but that doesn't make it a review; it doesn't have to be fair about the games merits and cons.

And again, irrespective of whatever technical/feasibility/financial concerns there are with heavily modifying versions of FFXI from one platform to the next, it doesn't change the fact that a straight bland port as it currently is, fails to take advantage of the X360 system, fails to be impressive/showcase for the new system.

The main point then is; if you're thinking of buying the X360 version expecting some very nice X360 upgrades, then you're wasting your time. If you don't already have it, then its still no real reason to wait for the X360 version (current version is still in 'beta') over other versions.

The qualifier that he implied however, and I think a lot of you are missing is that; it's no worse a version then any of the other versions available (and the point is that it's no better).

Zaptruder, either you are really slow or you are being so upset, defensive for no particular reason to not realize the point that others are trying to tell you.

If you only have an Xbox360 as your gaming system (this is actually true for a lot of people), you can also playing FFXI on it. That's the whole point of this port/release. FFXI will not be a tech showcase for the Xbox360. It was never meant to be one.

Also, FFXI does not totally fail taking advantages of the Xbox360. It does have several enhancements over the PS2 version and conviniently left out from the article or completely forgot after all the ranting (HDTV support is one example.)

But it's not a review.

It's simply a news article that goes indepth into what's changed in FFXI for the X360 (very little) and then goes on to tell the reader that, there isn't a reason to wait for this version if they can get another version.

Sure its ladden with criticism, but that doesn't make it a review; it doesn't have to be fair about the games merits and cons.

And again, irrespective of whatever technical/feasibility/financial concerns there are with heavily modifying versions of FFXI from one platform to the next, it doesn't change the fact that a straight bland port as it currently is, fails to take advantage of the X360 system, fails to be impressive/showcase for the new system.

The main point then is; if you're thinking of buying the X360 version expecting some very nice X360 upgrades, then you're wasting your time. If you don't already have it, then its still no real reason to wait for the X360 version (current version is still in 'beta') over other versions.

The qualifier that he implied however, and I think a lot of you are missing is that; it's no worse a version then any of the other versions available (and the point is that it's no better).

You don't understand, his main complaint is with POL. It's an integral part of how SE conducts their business. You'll find every online game they've made and will make under the Games listing when they're done. It takes all of two minutes to get through it, and about 10 minutes to set up an account. If you can't sit still for 10 minutes you SHOULD NOT be playing FFXI.

And so far it is just a port. There are no international port governing rules that state a game must take advantage of every single capability of the console it's been ported to. They said they were going to deliver an upgrade in graphics, so they just might release an update for it.

The write obviously has a bug up his ass, and he's complaining about not being able to write in Japanese or something. What was he expecting?

Zaptruder, either you are really slow or you are being so upset, defensive for no particular reason to not realize the point that others are trying to tell you.

If you only have an Xbox360 as your gaming system (this is actually true for a lot of people), you can also playing FFXI on it. That's the whole point of this port/release. FFXI will not be a tech showcase for the Xbox360. It was never meant to be one.

Also, FFXI does not totally fail taking advantages of the Xbox360. It does have several enhancements over the PS2 version and conviniently left out from the article or completely forgot after all the ranting (HDTV support is one example.)

The only reason I'm upset is that rational thought is been thrown out the window in favor of bandwagoning.
The hypocrisy of the OP decrying it as a review (it's not a review) and crying about the criticism as unjustified and ignorant, while missing the point of the article is quite disheartening.

I simply push the point in order to make sure people can justify their views. Without that kind of logic and reasoning, discussions don't go anywhere; they end up as immature vitriolic cesspools, or circlejerks where everyone congratulate each other on having the same unjustified opinions.

The truth is, FFXIs update system is slow. Squaresoft caps everyone at the speed of a 56k modem, which makes getting the patches quite painful after I've reformatted my computer (in comparison, Half-Life 2 takes me a whole 30~ minutes to get all the updates and mods, and WoW takes about an hour to get everything).

Another thing people need to consider is that Zaptruder is right, the graphics engine is dated. It is flawed in so many ways it's not even funny (this is a byproduct of it dating back to 1999 or so). The limited draw distance is one such problem, but looking deeper, the fact that the game is so tied to the thirty FPS rule signifies that there are much larger problems afoot with the engine. Now, before you pounce on me, I'm going to relate it to another game--Half-Life, because quite honestly, many of the same problems in FFXI actually can be found in Half-Life. The thing with the engine is that Squaresoft never built it properly in the first place to scale with technology (this is painfully evident in many areas in Chains of Promathia). As the environments get more detailed the engine uses exponentially more resources, thus, making it so that even if you have a good computer you're still going to see considerable slowdown (this is a major reason why the draw distance is not increased in the PC version of FFXI). Getting back to how this relates to Half-Life is that it handles indoor areas, and small outdoor areas quite well, however, the second that you start having expansive areas, the engine starts running into major problems for the same reason that FFXI does. The more the engine is asked to render, it uses exponentially more resources. This can be attributed to poor planning on Squaresoft's part (a good example of planning is the Unreal Warfare engine, I remember there being a quote that when there are PCs with enough power, it will be able to render a 100 square kilometers at roughly the same efficiency as one square kilometer, it may have been PR talk, but anyway).

People talk about how the PS2 limits FFXI, it's not the PS2, it's the graphic engine, and based on the way the graphic engine ties into the game (the framerates) trying to change it would be a significant investment on SEs part that I guess they do not see fit to make.

Thus, yes, the FFXI port to the Xbox360 is a lazy one. For a game that has already been out for 4 years and is being ported to a next generation console, you would expect a port ala Resident Evil 1 on GameCube proportions, instead, we're left with what is essentially the equivelant of Resident Evil 2 was on the GameCube. So yes, the writer of the article has very valid points.

As for the whole graphics arguement of FFXI vs. WoW. vs EQ2 it can be broken down like this:

WoW and FFXI both have excellent art direction, it largely comes down to style, and you can't really judge WoW's graphics based on screenshots, it's one of those things you have to see in motion (just like you have to see Half-Life 2 in motion before you can judge it's graphical quality vs. Doom 3). But as I said, the art direction and style in both games is amazing in that they're consistent throughout, and both games manage to immerse you into their worlds (though nothing takes you back out of that immersion as quickly as seeing a huge cliff face appear in mid air).

Though EQ2 has an awesome game engine, it has horrible art direction.

Also, here's some better screenshots of WoW, though they don't do it justice as I said earlier, (1152x864, not aliased, level of detail (uses simpler models in the distance, saved using Irfanview at 80% jpeg quality, also note: wierd colours at the extreme edges on the right and bottom are a result of my videocard being wierd) turned on, but everything else is turned up) they're better than the others depicting WoW in the thread.

Here. (http://server2.uploadit.org/files/Manatra-Screenshot2.jpg) and I'll display this next on in the thread.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/Manatra-Screenshot3.jpg

The japanese value good role playing, and good story.

Good story? Yes. Good role playing? Most definitely not.

I'd say FFXI is one of the more role-playing-unfriendly MMORPGs out there, and I'd say the very reason is the fact that it has such a "good", but static, storyline.

You killed the shadowlord and saved vanadiel? Oh! So did I, last week. Bob over there killed him two months ago and Joe is planning on fighting him next week. Kamlanaut and his brother are threatening the world? How is that possible? I defeated him yesterday!

Most Japanese "RPGs" are in fact, not RPGs. They're more akin to adventure games with RPG elements mixed in, in a ratio of something lik 7:3.

Best damn role-playing MMORPG I've seen has to be Eve Online. You roleplay whether you want to or not - it comes naturally with the gameplay. It's got nothing more than a token static storyline, but the real meat (and the real story) of the game is dynamically driven by the playerbase themselves.

The only reason I'm upset is that rational thought is been thrown out the window in favor of bandwagoning.
The hypocrisy of the OP decrying it as a review (it's not a review) and crying about the criticism as unjustified and ignorant, while missing the point of the article is quite disheartening.

I simply push the point in order to make sure people can justify their views. Without that kind of logic and reasoning, discussions don't go anywhere; they end up as immature vitriolic cesspools, or circlejerks where everyone congratulate each other on having the same unjustified opinions.

You must not have been around for a lot of the criticism we as a FFXI community recieve, much less how much of a bad rap we recieve by idiot WoW and EQ2 fanboys. We don't need some dumbass IGN writer who needs a quick story to shut his boss up to bitch and moan about something as simple as a port. Most of it is simply ignorance.

Best damn role-playing MMORPG I've seen has to be Eve Online. You roleplay whether you want to or not - it comes naturally with the gameplay. It's got nothing more than a token static storyline, but the real meat (and the real story) of the game is dynamically driven by the playerbase themselves.

This might clarify as to what kind of roleplaying takes place in Eve: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/19/24

Though it was quite the cruel thing to happen to the people on the receiving end, and even though the article deals with aspects of griefing, it is quite the story.

Most of it is simply ignorance.

And ignorance from fanboys makes it (the overall debacle) right somehow?

As for the patronizing comment, I've probably been around the community far longer than you boy... I don't see how its relevant to the discussion at hand though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/rodin/clp11.jpg.


That's me about 2 years ago.....My computer is no where state of the art, I have a SUCKY ass GFX card, and the settings are no where near capped....Look at how BEAUTIFUL the game looks even though I have nothing outstanding on my computer.....My brother runs WoW with the same settings....the game is too jagged and rough around the edges to even compare to pics like this.....I'll post a SS of WoW on the same PC.


Edit: Found a 360 SS that I LOVE.


http://www.digitalbackspin.com/media/gallery%2FXbox%5F360%2FFinal%5FFantasy%5FXI%5FOnli ne%2F03%5F360%5F2%2Ejpg

Yashin those pics of WoW and EQ2 are not running on a high-end PC, just by looking at that wow pic I can tell Anti Aliasing isn't even on, and if it is it couldn't possibly be on beyond 2X - not to mention that its running at a very low resolution. Those EQ2 pics... I can't tell if the picture is low quality or the PC running it is weak, but it looks all washed out.

As I said, I did not take pics from playing EQ or WoW, if you wanna post more pics to show off WoW/EQ2 goahead, because those pics do indeed suck...but i couldnt find better...

This might clarify as to what kind of roleplaying takes place in Eve: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/19/24

Though it was quite the cruel thing to happen to the people on the receiving end, and even though the article deals with aspects of griefing, it is quite the story.

Wow, that was after my time in Eve, but still incredibly. Certainly a lot more interesting than your average "Save the world from the evildoers!" story IMHO ;p

My greatest moment in Eve was during the TTI war which generated headlines in the forums that sounded something straight out of real-world news media. Sadly I had to quit the game shortly after that.

Let me put it to people this way though. Anyone who can agree with that guy's arguments, isn't a fan of FFXI. Complain about the trivial things that this moron said, then why do you even play it or post on this forum? This is a one time setup deal, and after that it's smooth sailing. Personally, I always enjoyed the installation process, it built up my excitement and hype, cause I knew in the end it was gonna pay off. It is a hard game compared to other MMORPGs, there is alot of grinding and leveling up. It is hard to solo, and it does force you to work with others. But in the end, that's what makes the game so rewarding! You feel like you've accomplished something, and you don't just breeze through stuff.

I don't care if the game is old looking by xbox 360 standards, or doesn't use it to it's full power. Why is that soo important?! I'd be glad if developers didn't get so friggin hung up on graphics sometimes. I still don't think FFXI is outdated, because it's a beautiful game, but to those people that do think it's outdated in graphics, SO WHAT?!

Game's do not always need to put a system to the max. That's why for so long, the great dragon quest series hasn't been released in the states, we're too friggin hung up on graphics, and it wasn't until the series went 3D that we finally got the series brought back here. People here couldn't stand to play through an RPG like that cause it didn't push polygons or pixels like the final fantasy games at the time.

Legend of Zelda: Four Swords I thought was an awesome example that games do not need to use the latest in graphics to make an awesome game. I was so happy to see an old looking SNES graphics type game on a home console again, and they still managed to put in some cool looking effects only possible on the gamecube. People get so damn hung up on graphics, that we rarely, and may never see games like this on a home console, maybe a portable, but not a home console. Animal Crossing was also just an N64 port basically, no updated graphics, and it still did awesomely well cause the game was good!

And ignorance from fanboys makes it (the overall debacle) right somehow?

As for the patronizing comment, I've probably been around the community far longer than you boy... I don't see how its relevant to the discussion at hand though.

Ah, you're just as ignorant as the IGN writer. If you can't see how ignorance plays into this complicated grand scheme you might as well turn your computer off, dig a hole, and live in it. We could argue back and forth, but I'll save that treat for the Allakhazam and KI forums.

Would you buy a puppy and complain that it craps on the floor? If you had bought the puppy, did you really think it wouldn't? Are we supposed to breed them with the ingrained knowledge not to crap on the floor just because it's possible? You get what you buy, and obviously this guy knew what he was buying.

Anyone who can agree with that guy's arguments, isn't a fan of FFXI.

Fan? I'm a fan. I like the game.

Fanboy? No. I don't worship the game. I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I think it has a HUGE amount of flaws.

It's a great game. It's a fun game. But it's nowhere close to being a perfect game.

No offense, but you really, really do sound like you worship FFXI, or at least are pretty close to it.

Every game has it's flaws. Heck EVERYTHING has flaws. You don't have to make up excuses for what are obvious shortcomings. If you don't care about the shortcomings, good for you. That doesn't mean everybody else has to agree with you or else be branded an Public Enemy of Vanadiel.

Fan? I'm a fan. I like the game.

Fanboy? No. I don't worship the game. I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I think it has a HUGE amount of flaws.

It's a great game. It's a fun game. But it's nowhere close to being a perfect game.

No offense, but you really, really do sound like you worship FFXI, or at least are pretty close to it.

Every game has it's flaws. Heck EVERYTHING has flaws. You don't have to make up excuses for what are obvious shortcomings. If you don't care about the shortcomings, good for you. That doesn't mean everybody else has to agree with you or else be branded an Public Enemy of Vanadiel.

Because for years I have been a fan of the game, and not once, not EVER, has any of these review sites, or just people in general given FFXI credit where credit is due. Not once has it received the recognition it deserves for bringing a full MMORPG without cutting any corners to a game console, and not just for PC. It has never gotten any praise from review sites for it's this, or it's impressive cutscenes. I still think the fact that this game can run on PS2 is amazing.

To players who are on PC, sure, FFXI was nothing new. I can understand that, but console gamers, who don't have a PC that can run any games, this was the first of it's kind. And it still is! EQOA doesn't count cause it really is a piss poor watered down MMORPG. But FFXI cuts no corners, and was released in the states for a damn good price for the PS2 compared to the japanese release.

Yet on the other hand, you got WoW. I did play this game, it wasn't my cup of tea, but I still understand why some people like it. They're a fan of the warcraft world, or they like PvP. That's all fine and good. But review sites, DID praise it too friggin much. They reviewed rediculously high for an MMORPG, that truely did not bring anything new to the genre. Easier to solo? Then why play an online rpg in the first place?

FFXI broke some rules, and it has hardcore fans like me because of it. Brought an amazing MMORPG to consoles, and PC gamers alike. It took chances where no one else still has. WoW leeched off what other MMORPGs had already done, and it's treated like the best game ever. The only other MMORPG that I think truely added stuff to the genre besides FFXI, was star wars galaxies. It had loads of flaws, but it added alot of things to the genre that I wish other MMORPGs had. Like player built cities, that was my all time favorite. It was a true community controlled game.

Most people I know in FFXI have the dedication of a fanboy, but don't let that get to their heads. Fanboy carries such a negative meaning because fanboys usually let their love for a game stand in the way of their reasoning. Why are we called fanboys when we argue in favor of one game over another? I've seen this elsewhere and I thought it was clever:

Job: Fanboy
Stats:
Exhaustion Perpetuation Cost: -10
Intellegence: - 50
Cynicism: -20
Enjoyment: +20

Job: Dedicated Player
Stats:
Exhaustion Perpetuation Cost: Varies by Moon Phase
Intellegence: +20
Cynicism: +10
Enjoyment: +10

That's not exactly what they said, but it's how I see it.

Impaction. I think you say it best yourself.

Fanboys let their love for something stand in the way of reasoning.

You insist in calling me ignorant, with an unholy alliance with the writer of the article, without addressing the actual issues in my argument.
(Just to recap; it is a fair article/criticism given that its judged relative to the X360 and the lack of improvements it brings/takes advantage of).

That is why you are a fanboy; and by your own reckoning, shouldn't be proud to be one.

Because for years I have been a fan of the game, and not once, not EVER, has any of these review sites, or just people in general given FFXI credit where credit is due.

The statement of a fanboy at its truest. Not once? Not ever? Holy jumping jack rabbits, talk about a persecution complex.

Your arguement was something like "lol ffxi graphics suxorz why dent they update fer 360?"

I think I addressed that.

Your arguement was something like "lol ffxi graphics suxorz why dent they update fer 360?"

I think I addressed that.

You see. That's what your inner fanboy is making you see.

It's quite a stretch from what I'm actually saying.

This argument doesn't really need to go much further.

Either the fanboy bit is ended, or the thread meets its doom.

I'm not sure why you let it get this far in the first place.

On the same token, it's a little bit counterproductive to let bandwagoning run rampant then start locking things when logic makes people a little flustered isn't it?

I mean, ideally you'd like to create a strong community; and that includes the need for critical thinking.

Just get outta here Zaptruder, before you kill my topic >_<

EDIT add: Let's keep this topic friendly. You can argue, but don't take it personal. Don't want the topic to die, I like a good argument sometimes, trying to convince people I'm right, and vice versa. Just don't be calling people a fanboy, don't be saying I don't have a life cause I worship FFXI or something. It may seem that way on here, but that's what we're on these forums for! This is a FFXI forum, not a "Life Forum" lol, We all are here cause we like FFXI in one way or another.

Considering how solid the X360 live interface is, playonline is a dramatic step back, in that it forces players to go through it... ideally it would smoothly integrate the playonline interface into the X360 dashboard...

as it stands, this 360 FFXI is simply a lazy cynical port, with the intent of slightly widening the player base of an aging MMORPG.



Relative to other X360 titles then, FFXI is soundly relegated as the last generation hand me down that it is.

In otherwords, trash (for a new game machine).

Double Post Edited:
The only merit that FFXI has over most other MMOs is the fact that its art style is still among the best of any MMO in the last 5 or so years. It's a shame it isn't coupled with a reasonable game engine.

So basically you said POL only made the process of signing on more encumbersom, and that it should be integrated into Xbox Live to eliminate that extra step. You also continued to say that it's just a port of the original game, and nothing has been reworked to take advantage of Xbox 360's powerful engine which was a lame move.

I argued that they said a slight improvement in the graphics were in the works, and that they didn't have to do anything at all. Complaining isn't the reasonable response here because they just might improve the graphics greatly. I also went on to say that he shouldn't complain about what's been part of the game for three years now, and that since you were so adamant about comparing ol' FFXI to newer games like WoW, that FFXI still has the best graphics on the market. If you stop to think about what they're working with it all makes sense.

WoW half-assed their expansion because they're too busy making animations of dancing murlocs, and Flash presentations of skill trees. Instead of correcting their buggy software they just localize it and release it in other countries. Their graphics aren't even that good to begin with. (PROTIP: ANTI ALIASING ISN'T GOING TO IMPROVE ANYTHING) FFXI's graphics are completely acceptable, if not jawsome, and yet they've been able to maintain an incredible plot and rich world for us to play in. Instead of complaining we should be giving credit where credit is due.

Some people can't argue without insulting eachother, like the guy that called me a moron - calling me names doesn't change the fact that I'm still right and you're wrong, insulting me is not only immature but also pointless, when all people can come up with to counter my argument is insults its obvious I'm right and that there is nothing to argue about. Regardless, this whole thread is wrong from the start, yeah IGN has alot of retarded reviews/previews but this is NOT one of them.

The truth is, FFXIs update system is slow. Squaresoft caps everyone at the speed of a 56k modem, which makes getting the patches quite painful.

...first off, no it doesn't. Your connection to the server while you're playing is capped at 56k. While you're downloading patches it's fair game. I downloaded all the patches for FFXI/RoZ/CoP from NA PC release in 35min on my Uni connection to my new laptop.

As for the main thrust of the article (on topic now!), the guy whines about POL. POL is really easy to use. It might not have the simplicity of XBOXlive but I don't see how it's annoying and slow. Considering that SE will be releasing/have released other online games through POL makes it a good way to keep in touch with everyone. I know a few people are going to be importing Fantasy Earth and it will be nice to keep in touch with them when they take a break/quit FFXI.

As for graphics, a small summation of what I've seen. (yes I played all these games)

WoW: If you like the Warcraft world you'll like the graphics. They fit Azaroth perfectly but in no way are they breathtaking.

EQ2: The graphics are really good. The polygon count and models are really detailed. Sadly the models and zones lack life or emotion. They're very superficial.

L2: umm....best of any MMORPG I've seen.

FFXI: Great for a MMO on PS2 almost 4 years ago. Disgustingly beautiful at JP PC release, and I'd even say for NA PC release. Even now few MMO match the clarity with which the models and the envionment is presented. If you have a computer that can support the display hack, they rival Lineage II.

The IGN reviewer is just writing what comes easy. Seriously, I don't think I could live without the messaging system, and the chatrooms are always fun during maintenance. Plus, the wallpaper of Riverne is omglove.

For computer literate people, as I imagine most of us here are, we have no problem running POL, but consoles are designed for simplicity and ease of use, and thats one of the main selling features on MS' online service as well, if you buy an xbox it takes all of 5 minutes to register and get online and start playing any online game you want, w/ FFXI those 5 mins will turn into several hours, thus why the reviewer may have found it unacceptable.

For computer literate people, as I imagine most of us here are, we have no problem running POL, but consoles are designed for simplicity and ease of use, and thats one of the main selling features on MS' online service as well, if you buy an xbox it takes all of 5 minutes to register and get online and start playing any online game you want, w/ FFXI those 5 mins will turn into several hours, thus why the reviewer may have found it unacceptable.

The only reason it might take hours is because of updates...

I don't see how registering a credit card, serial numbers, and a handle ID for POL service could take more than 15min.

Edit: oh, maybe an email address too? I don't think I missed much else. It's been two years since I first installed the game.

So basically you said POL only made the process of signing on more encumbersom, and that it should be integrated into Xbox Live to eliminate that extra step. You also continued to say that it's just a port of the original game, and nothing has been reworked to take advantage of Xbox 360's powerful engine which was a lame move.

I argued that they said a slight improvement in the graphics were in the works, and that they didn't have to do anything at all. Complaining isn't the reasonable response here because they just might improve the graphics greatly. I also went on to say that he shouldn't complain about what's been part of the game for three years now, and that since you were so adamant about comparing ol' FFXI to newer games like WoW, that FFXI still has the best graphics on the market. If you stop to think about what they're working with it all makes sense.

WoW half-assed their expansion because they're too busy making animations of dancing murlocs, and Flash presentations of skill trees. Instead of correcting their buggy software they just localize it and release it in other countries. Their graphics aren't even that good to begin with. (PROTIP: ANTI ALIASING ISN'T GOING TO IMPROVE ANYTHING) FFXI's graphics are completely acceptable, if not jawsome, and yet they've been able to maintain an incredible plot and rich world for us to play in. Instead of complaining we should be giving credit where credit is due.

1) Apologizing for the problems or mistakes doesn't make them disappear. Especially someone elses problems/mistakes.

2) The WoW expansion pack hasn't been released yet; only some details. I'm not sure how you can justify its criticism with what you've said (protip: You can't).

3) Sticking protip in front of something doesn't make it any more authoritative. It's especially humorous when the following information is just flat out wrong. Anti aliasing reduces the visual phenomena of aliasing... or the jagged 'stair stepping' effect you get from lines of a diagonal orientation.

4) Throwing in weird superlatives as well as a punch of dogmatic opinion is definetly a sign of fanboyism. "jawesome"? Yeah ok buddy. I hope you're real happy in your jawsome game.

I have a question for you people, was Resident Evil 2 on GameCube a good port? Especially when it came out after Resident Evil 1.

That is the angle the guy from IGN is approaching it from (with FFXI being the equivelant of Resident Evil 2), and in that sense he is pretty much spot on.

By the way Zap, are you the same one that is on FoH?

1) The vitriol in the post is already insulting/offensive enough... you don't need kid gloves on the other insult.

2) The phrase Talking out of your dick... is probably more reserved for guys that ... you know I'm not even sure the phrase is supposed to be that. It's "Talking out of your ass." ... as in what you have to say is crap. "Thinking with your dick" indicates a lack of proper judgement due to male lust...

Umm.. Go f*ck yourself.

Hurray for sweetkitty! she so sweet! XD Hey now..

*goes back in her cage* bah :(

Mana; yes.

Kitty; won't you join me?

Im not allowed to. Im leashed to someone.

i like the review, will keep Gill buying noobs away ;)

about the IGN fanboy thing...
http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_care-o-meter.jpg

XD funny picture.. That guy is just a loser writing game reviews on games he doesn't know shit of.

Because for years I have been a fan of the game, and not once, not EVER, has any of these review sites, or just people in general given FFXI credit where credit is due. Not once has it received the recognition it deserves for bringing a full MMORPG without cutting any corners to a game console, and not just for PC. It has never gotten any praise from review sites for it's this, or it's impressive cutscenes. I still think the fact that this game can run on PS2 is amazing.


Aside from the PS2 bit, maybe it didn't get the praise because it wasn't what the market wanted (including the game reviewers)? That's true 4 years ago, and it's still true today.

Does that mean it's a bad game? No. It means it's a niche game. FFXI by it's very nature will never have broad market appeal to the degree of say, WoW, even if S-E launched a massive advertising campaign and bribed every game reviewer out there.

The game is simply very hardcore, and hardcore games tend not to have broad appeal.


Yet on the other hand, you got WoW. I did play this game, it wasn't my cup of tea, but I still understand why some people like it. They're a fan of the warcraft world, or they like PvP. That's all fine and good. But review sites, DID praise it too friggin much. They reviewed rediculously high for an MMORPG, that truely did not bring anything new to the genre. Easier to solo? Then why play an online rpg in the first place?

You obviously don't indeed understand why people like it then, if you have to ask that last question.

The reason WoW got so much praise was because it was so accessible. And part of the reason for it's accessibility is it's soloability.

WoW is like Apple Computer, or AOL. It didn't do anything revolutionary to the genre. But what it did, was open up the genre to the masses.

He who agrees with me is an intelligent man, he who does not, an idiot.


I see alot of what I wrote above happening on these boards. I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online. I tried EQII for a couple of months after quitting FFXI, and after that I went to WOW for a year. I had a level 60 character in FFXI, just tired of LFG, LFG. I went to EQII, and while the graphics *are* amazing, they are generic. I went to WOW for 1 year and level 2 characters to level 60, PVP'd, but quit when I had to put together 4 hours plus for end game raiding.

Let's face it, the graphical techincalities of FFXI is not on par with EQII or WOW, yet I think that the overall presentation of characters would be ranked as FFXI, WOW, then EQII. POL is also an outdated interface, especially in light of the improved Live system found on the 360. This guy has several valid complaints, although most people can look past these because of the stability and balanced classes in this game. I hate when people jump on the fanboi boat and defend a game as though it were infallible. No game is perfect, no game is infallible.

That being said, I feel that for me FFXI is the best overall game out at the moment, due to storyline and community. It is why I came back, and why I will continue to build up my characters from scratch.

Im not allowed to. Im leashed to someone.

Oh. That's a shame...

(for that person).

Double Post Edited:
Going back and reading that article... it's as much trash as the criticism directed at it.

I mean, it's got some valid points... but it does harp on way too much about POL. The reader gets it Anoop; FFXI commits the cardinal sin of not working well with the LIVE interface... that doesn't mean you can commit the sin of boring us to death with your travails with the POL interface.

The valid points are more implicit in the article; reading in between the lines, basically its a disappointing lack of upgrades for the X360, to take advantage of the new hardware properly. That's fair enough, given that the general site focus is on the X360 as a new system, rather than FFXI been available on yet another platform.

What I'm annoyed about then is how he fails to expound on other things... I'm not sure whether or not at this stage if they've actually increased the draw distance in the X360... if they're any other differences. The impressions I get is they're none... even the frame rate is unstable (in cities) and capped to 30. In that case as a new X360 owner, you really would be annoyed that you ended up playing a last generation game on your spiffy new machine.
So then... while I'd like to punch Anoop in the face, and generally regard IGN as a trashy site (I do), I can't say that the article is entirely baseless or without merit... even if the merit is particularly low as with the overall value of this thread!

I wonder why some people still trying to defend the article. With that in mind, I tried to read the article again and tried to be as objective as I can. My feeling about the article still the same. The author of the article seems to use too much sarcastic tone. As some point, he seems to bash the game intendedly. The article fill with his own rants. Some of them are several paragraphs just to vent about one point.
Things like
My Xbox 360 launch day was ruined by a three year old PlayStation 2 title and its dated interface.
and
And did I mention the happy jazz music they've got playing in the background during this lengthy process? It's a real insult to the ears, considering that this is a company known for its game soundtracks.

and
If not, then they ought to stop handing out free beta copies and souring the next generation taste for early Xbox 360 adopters.
I don't think that the article was written objectively and professionally. Several facts that the author already knew beforehand yet still went on and on about them. For a big site like IGN, don't you think it's a bit unethical?

Double Post Edited:

What I'm annoyed about then is how he fails to expound on other things... I'm not sure whether or not at this stage if they've actually increased the draw distance in the X360... if they're any other differences. The impressions I get is they're none... even the frame rate is unstable (in cities) and capped to 30. In that case as a new X360 owner, you really would be annoyed that you ended up playing a last generation game on your spiffy new machine.
So then... while I'd like to punch Anoop in the face, and generally regard IGN as a trashy site (I do), I can't say that the article is entirely baseless or without merit... even if the merit is particularly low as with the overall value of this thread!
But, his FFXI is a BETA version. Is it really a big surprise when a BETA version does not do what it supposes to do? He knew it's a BETA version yet went on and said this

Personally, before testing the massively multiplayer Online RPG waters on Microsoft's next generation platform, I'll wait for a game that fixes the visual defects of current generation titles.

Isnt that what he supposes to be testing? see if the enhancements for the Xbox360 actually working?

As my father often told me "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one" Don't lose sleep over a review.

Thach, while real betas may have a few bugs with them... in general they're quite stable and representative of the release product. In this case, the game has already been around for quite a while... basically, they've released something that works on the X360. Great. But in all seriousness, if the changes aren't already in the beta, I doubt they're going to take the 3-4 months extra to add additional features (that could compromise stability).

The purpose of the beta in this case then is simply to see if the X360 client is stable enough to integrate onto existing servers.

i like the review, will keep Gill buying noobs away ;)

about the IGN fanboy thing...
http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_care-o-meter.jpg

Keep that on the BlueGartr boards. I don't want to see it here too. >_<

Oh. That's a shame...

(for that person).

lol. You don't need to make attacks like that on people's character no matter what they say. As it stands now this thread is essentially done. The reviewer seems to be too opinionated. Some people are being blinded by their love for the game and some people are being influenced by what weaknesses they see in the game compared to arguably better engines/systems of play.

Anyways, the soundtrack thing is really stupid. I like the POL music, much more than some tracks in the game.

Finally, i reached the end of this thread. Sheesh, i've been wanting to chime in at multiple points here, insert my objective critisism here and so on and so forth, wanting to don my Flame Jacket, but here I stand, at the end of a heated debate.

Oh well, I'll survive, there will be other posts >.>

Regardless of that, you either like FFXI or you don't. It has it's flaws, but as such, it's flaws are not SEs fault per se, what they're doing with the 360 is just stepping stone:

Getting more next gen support to get people ready for the PS3 release. When that happens, we may see the retirement of the PS2. I'm not sure how many people still play Phantasy Star Online on the DC, because I know that sequals are on the GC, but take a look at that. . .

If the DC version is dead, it is because it was not compatable with newer versions.

A large majority of FFXI gamers play on the PS2, and it would not be in SEs best intereset to allienate them. And also, quite frankly, the FFXI support on XB360 falls into one category:

-People who have the game elsewhere and are buying the 360 to play FFXI(trust me, a huge category of current FFXI players is like this)

This said, those that purchase the game understand it and want to enjoy it from the comfort of a couch, or chair, or what have you.

I doubt the target audience of the XB360 appreciates the nuances of FFXI, hell, to the ppl that have never played the game, they think they'll be able to use the voice chat.

XBLive is simply a portal from the XB onto SEs services. The only thing SE can do is create a shortcut icon on the 360 dashboard or w/e you store your games that brings you directly to the FFXI "Accept" "decline" message AFTER you set up an account via PlayOnline.

But it's first generation BETA on a first generation Console. Given SEs track record of doing a lot with little (very few games on the XB rival the prowess of FFX. That's what happens when you understand Vector Programming -.-), don't fret that FFXI on the XB360 will be short of awsome.

And if it's not, well, it's still the same Vana'diel, same macros bar, and the same interface.

POL is not cumbersome, that IGN editor didnt have a USB keyboard like every PS2 FFXI owner on the face of the planet. He couldnt take a keyboard from somewhere else and plug it into the 360's ports? LAAAME

Complaining about something within your power to change is like bitching at your fruit for tasting bad when you have ample water for cleaning.

This whole review was bashing things from an objective point of view, not even taking into consideration the richness of a game. It is likely the editor has never played FFXI.

And, yes, I agree that it is never represented fairly in reviews, namely because reviewers only have a limited amount of time with it, and it is limited to the installation, the update and a first few levels. Reviewers never get to experience the lush forest of ZiTah, the lively jungle of Kazham or the quiet fear present on TuLia.

All FFXI reviews are biased because they are not reviewed accurately from untainted sources. I'm in my 70s and have put 60days of game time into this world. Anything I say will be influenced by my experiences, and expert gamers of FFXI are the best to review it.

Not highly bribed editors whose idea of an RPG is morrowind, Fable or KOTOR, where a cutscene is simply talking to a character, hearing voiceovers and choosing a decision.

Current RPGs are no worse than FFTactics, except you can run around in the towns. Tactics was, cutscene, fight, walk to next town. Repeat. This is what the multitude of american RPGs are because for some reason, developers think we don't have an attention span past our next beaten hooker, or stolen car, or lack luster FPS.

FFXI should be praised for carving it's own niche in a genre full of rehashes and updates that are nothing more than the same race with a different skin tone.

FFXI should be praised for carving it's own niche in a genre full of rehashes and updates that are nothing more than the same race with a different skin tone.

*adds to his quotable quotes list*!

Mantara,

To correct an wrongly stated logic of the update and transfer rates. The 56k restriction is on the game server only the update server is unrestricted, this is why when you look at the file size for the updates SE always gives you 2 estimates for time to download one for 56Kbps speed and one for 1Mbps speed.

The game servers themselves are about the only area on their network that partitions it bandwidth to 56k per person. This allows for 1 like T3 or even OC12 line that'll support everyone equally and better creates an illusion of responses being almost instant. Due to DDoS attacks as well as other uncontrollable conditions though the illusion can be distorted some.

Anyway point is 12MB (on 1Mbps = 125KBps) will take you 2 min. regardless of how you look at it. And that is if you get the full 1Mbps during the entire download, most I usually see it achieve is 300Kbps - 700Kbps (37.5KBps - 87.5 KBps) depending on bandwidth the site has which means download alone is going to take you 10min. - 3min.

Then go with 56Kbps (7KBps) means if you actually achieved that it would take a minimum of 28 min. and 30 sec. but again 56Kbps is not the speed the modem will dedicate purely for the user's data, this speed includes protocols required to maintain sessions over the network or internet. So to the user themself only about 20-35 Kbps (2.5KBps - 4.4KBps) is dedicated to the user/application, which means a 56Kbps connection will take 1hr. 20 min. - 45 min. for download alone.

This is just plain physics of the hardwares restriction, there is no magic button that SE can do to alter physics. As far as I know there is no device to alter space and time to make such things possible, the limitation presented that the guy is complaining about is complete BS or as I stated a guy who doesn't know jack s*** about technology.

EDIT:

Just incase, because I've found this to confuse those that lack the technological end of knowledge as far as transfer rates:

b = bits
B = Bytes
Kb = Kilobits
KB = KiloBytes
Mb = Megabits
MB = MegaBytes

8b = 1B
8Kb = 1KB
8Mb = 1MB

When calculate estimate download speed 56Kbps and 1Mbps have to be transferred from bits to Bytes first.

56Kbps = 7KBps
1Mbps = 125KBps

Transfer 5MB

(56Kbps)
5,000,000/7,000 = 714.2857~ Seconds
714.2857~/60 = 11.904761~ Minutes (Approx. 12 min.)

(1Mbps)
5,000,000/1,000,000 = 5 Seconds

Above is excluding protocols needed to maintain sessions, as well as imperfections in the medium to transfer the data, and possible transfer rate from server end. So these transfer rates are impossible, they are derived by an Average using a device that streams data through the device. The highest stable dataflow that can be achieved becomes this number, while testing though it is pure electron flow no actuall data and no protocols are present at that point.

Also should add the Modems with the 56Kbps that is an enforced restriction by the FCC. DSL modems using the similar technology is only able to go higher because it's medium is of higher quality and better design but still following the same methods of the 56Kbps modems. It is due to the medium it uses before reaching the POP at your house that allows it go beyond 56Kbps without the FCC restricting it.

a guy who doesn't know jack s*** about technology.

That's how you get a job at IGN.

To be fair Macht, when I have updated I have never seen FFXI really go above 56k transfer rates even though I have an 8 Mb connection :P But I will admit I was wrong~

Let me put it to people this way though. Anyone who can agree with that guy's arguments, isn't a fan of FFXI. Complain about the trivial things that this moron said, then why do you even play it or post on this forum? This is a one time setup deal, and after that it's smooth sailing. Personally, I always enjoyed the installation process, it built up my excitement and hype, cause I knew in the end it was gonna pay off. It is a hard game compared to other MMORPGs, there is alot of grinding and leveling up. It is hard to solo, and it does force you to work with others. But in the end, that's what makes the game so rewarding! You feel like you've accomplished something, and you don't just breeze through stuff.

This is primarily why I stopped playing WOW. I have to give Blizzard credit where it is due. They did open up MMORPG to many players and allowed the typical working American to be able to spend time with the game without sacrafi