Rng/sam

[aegina]

I have a subjob question. I just finished browsing through months of threads on this forum and two other sites, but I cant seem to find the answer to my question.



I am currently leveling thf, but I plan to have rng be my next big job :)



I know after reading lots of posts that /war and /nin are the two most commonly used subs. From what ive read, /war can deal near-patch damage, whereas /nin has utsusemi, but my question is, what about rng/sam? Ive heard /sam mentioned a couple times, but I haven’t seen it really discussed in detail yet.



While you would only get one blink instead of six, ive found you usually don’t NEED more than one or two. And since rng cant melee for tp like it could before, it seems like the extra ws’s from store tp and the +60 tp every couple minutes from meditate would let you out- damage ninja. It doesn’t seem to me like it would out damage /war, but it seems a lot more survivable than /war because of Third Eye. In other words, the best of both worlds, or at the very least, a nice balance of the two.



I know before the nerf, /sam was a common sub, but what about post nerf? Is /sam still viable? Has anyone actally tried it? Ill still sub /nin until 60, but I want to know if /sam is a good sub or not.



p.s. im new to these boards. Everyone /wave to the new face :)

[Hitokami]

I would also like to know the answer to this post. Sorry I have nothing to contribute, but Ive just started playing Rng and in the Dunes (I know bad exampe) I gain TP like crazy compared to other melees. I also want to know if anyone has tryed /sam post patch if meditate and gain tp skills are worth it.

The only doubts that I have are with weapon skill accuracy. I also have noticed in the Dunes, that I very rarely hit my flaming arrow. If this continues, then /sam may be not the best choice, if 2 weapon skills go by without any damage.

[Caspian]

What food are you using Hito? Even if using sushi, you will still miss some in the early levels. The +% sushi gives doesnt help as much when theres a low number to give a percentage of.
As far as tp gain now? I've been playing /nin, but am leveling war again and will soon switch to that for xp parties. TP gain I got post patch was still great. The only job that beats me routinely now is sam. (Honestly its the way it should be, sams being tp masters and all and still getting beaten to 100 TP just wasnt right).
As far as /sam goes, I'm not sure about Thrid Eye. Yeah, its useful, but if you just control your hate with /war you wont have to really worry about getting hit anyway, and will still be dealing more DoT, especially with Berserk. /nin for dual wield and a second hawkers, it wont really make much of a difference. Especially if you're using sushi. Dont not use /sam b/c of it, but be aware it also has limitations. I'm sure there will still be instances endgame where /sam will still be useful, but I know by and large /nin in the old standby with /war gaining more ground everyday.

[aegina]

caspian, it sounds like you prefer /war over /nin (which is fine). you say to control your hate with /war, but sometimes you do still get hit. (though if you need six blinks to survive, then you need to fix your playstyle, i agree lol). /nin seems to me like overkill on defence. but comparing /sam to /war, isnt one blink better than none? just how much more dot would you get with /war anyways?
after playing thf i dont think i could live without blinks :P and /sam sounds like it would deal more damage than /nin

[Macht]

Well RNG/SAM could potentially do more WSs faster then RNG/NIN leading to about 600 more damage for each extra Sidewinder accomplished. However you will be doing same damage per shot as RNG/NIN with only landing 70-80 out of 100 while they land 80-90 out of 100. So at best RNG/SAM getting 6,400 damage and RNG/NIN getting 7,200 or an 800 damage difference.

So just to stay par with RNG/NIN you would need to hit Sidewinders as many and as often as possible. Problem presented there is now you are clustering damage for what won't always be an ending shot, so your risk actually becomes greater then that of a RNG/WAR. Even though you have Third Eye the 1 min. interval is going to really kill it's effectiveness as you progress and try to keep par with RNG/NIN.

With RNG/WAR that isn't the same case, since RNG/WAR with Berserk + good Rng. Att. Food will have the same 70-80 out of 100 but won't have around 80 damage a shot it'll be more like 120-200 so they pull out 8,400-16,000 damage. Of course shots have to be controlled and release your most devistation at well timed points as finishers (Not to early and not an overkill) unless condition allows otherwise.

Balance is something you want but like stated don't overspecialize it, this includes balance itself. RNG/NIN and RNG/WAR work well because they specialize in something but can balance or cover the other needs very well. This isn't saying that RNG/SAM is bad because the part were RNG/SAM is actually good which hasn't been to directly stated, is that they produce some really damaging Skillchains if a Mage MBs off it. In effect RNG/SAM doing the similar role of a SAM, just look up the SAMs strengths and you've kind of gotten what a RNG/SAM is like.

[aegina]

ah, thanks! thats just what i was looking for...

you're saying that rng/sam is good, but deals its damage the same way a sam-main would, just using ranged attacks instead of the gk to set up sc's and mb's. Rng/war deals its damage through increased stats and berserk, and /nin is through the extra accuracy(with utsusemi making up for the difference in damage).

i will definitely use /nin now for random pickup pt's, but /sam sounds interesting if i can build a pt to sc and mb around it. i like building my own pt's.

[Caspian]

I believe /sam is still used on some hnm's when they want to give the mob as little tp as possible. Like Macht said, the big draw of /war is Berserk....Berserk > all. Such a huge boost in damage, and gets even bigger the higher your lvl and base atk. Trying to find a good pt where you can use /sam sounds like it would be fun. Just be sure sure not to overspam those sidewinders. ><

[Ninjitsu]

I disagree with the assertion that a playstyle change is in order if you need 6 shadows. That is potentially 3 times a double attack mob attacks and hits you. It can, and does happen. There are also times where a tank just isn't everything you could have hoped for and you have to burn a little more shihei in exchange for reasonable damage. Now, I'm not talking about going nuts and doing sidewinder/slugshot - barrage - sidewinder/slugshot or anything, but you can certainly be in a situation where you might blink a few times in a fight because the tank just isn't holding enough hate.

I lost my old account and ended up starting over recently, so I haven't played ranger in a while, but when I did, I got in as much damage as I possibly could without screwing up the PT flow. Most PTs I have been in expect you to do as much damage as you can get away with. It's all about knowing the hate line and not going beyond the point of no return without killing the mob. When a good PT melds together, it isn't as much of an issue as one would think.

I never was a rng/war fan. Why bother? It's more dangerous and you are less accurate. I'd rather endure the ninja expense and carry my insurance policy and reap the benefits of more acc. As an Elvaan, I felt like it was the way to go whether I wanted to or not anyway.


Just my 2 ;-)

[qaitakalnin]

i also believe it depends on your pt set up. For instance in my pt i am the puller, i like having the /nin for the shadows so that i dont get hit (or hit very little) when bringing back a mob. Now I could let the thf in the pt pull....but then it would be really boring for me so i prefer doing the pulling. /sam, at least from what i have been given to understand is for certain HNMs for just what ninjitsu said, to give the mob as little tp as possible also it allows for you to be traded out with another /sam to keep chaining.

[aegina]

ok, now i've actually played ranger/ninja for a bit, and i like it a lot. those shadows are a serious life saver!

if i pull hate, so what? i'll just tank for 20 seconds. once they pull the mob off me, i recast utsu and keep tanking (er- i mean, dd-ing...) and if they can't get hate off me in time, shadowbind and step away, recast utsu, keep tanking. i can tell that ranger/sam... *could* out-damage /nin, but the point behind /nin is it makes you more than a dd. you are also an emergency tank, too. subbing ninja has saved not only myself, but my whole pt more than once already... i wonder how much cooler this job will be once i learn utsu :ni XD

ranger/sam could be good, though, but you would need a very specific party setup. as a ranger/ninja, i have seen myself out-tp sam/wars many times already, and i have been in parties where i was skillchaining with two people at once and out-tping them both at the same time. you don't NEED store tp when you're the fastest tp gainer in the party. as stated above, you wouldn't be trying to solo your weaponskills (you pull enough hate already, and without shadows that would be near-suicide), instead you would want to build the party around a skillchain, and you would need two awesome skillchain partners who can both gain tp fast. you would also want a black mage or two.

barrage + meditate + uber fast tp gain anyways = ... hmm... [skillchain frenzy] [can i have it?] hehe
but now that i've actually played ranger awhile, i like ranger/nin better. it's safer and you're more useful to the pt.

[Macht]

Yep, each has their own flavor to that RNG as /WAR, /NIN, or /SAM have their effective uses. RNG/WAR isn't helpless in their abilities either, I've saved my party as RNG/WAR for my fair share as well.

[Caspian]

Yep, each has their own flavor to that RNG as /WAR, /NIN, or /SAM have their effective uses. RNG/WAR isn't helpless in their abilities either, I've saved my party as RNG/WAR for my fair share as well.

Defender for the win! Plus if you play it right you can ride the hate line all day long. Damn I can't wait till I finish lvling my subs so I can get back to doing what I love....shooting crap.

[aegina]

i don't argue, but with /nin you don't NEED to ride the hate line. if you go over, you just tank ti'll the tank gets hate back

i'm not hating /war, i've just fallen in love with /nin, hehe

and /sam may have a blink, but they can't tank when needed

[Macht]

i don't argue, but with /nin you don't NEED to ride the hate line. if you go over, you just tank ti'll the tank gets hate back

i'm not hating /war, i've just fallen in love with /nin, hehe

and /sam may have a blink, but they can't tank when needed

Yeah, I get what you are saying and /NIN is good for that. I ride that hate line though using Iron and Scorpion Arrows, I keep my Demons for when I need to annihilate a mob. For better view of what I mean, Berserk + Food means a RNG/WAR can do equal to damage that a RNG/NIN does using Demons or Bodkins but only use Iron and Scorpions. When they pull out the big arrows like Demons and such they completly kick the crap out the damage a RNG/NIN could do.

The crap kicking attacks work well when tank needs hate taken away from them, just the downfall is when you commit to taking that hate away you better be dishing out all you can to end the fight quickly. So great judgment on how the party is doing against the mob is very key. RNG/NIN is nice because you don't really have to plan out that part of the stragedy, you actually plan it out in the oposite direction and that is what makes them so lovable.

The sacrifice to being RNG/NIN though is you plateau your damage at a lower range, it's still by far among the greatest damage dealt but RNG/WAR when situation occurs were they have no restrictions the RNG/WAR will be dishing damage far greater. The job choices all have their strengths and weaknesses what makes a good job is that the player uses them right.

RNG/NINs will get beaten around pretty good by MNK type monsters (So no Malboros or mobs like that to try and EXP off of), outside of that they are fairly well covered by the other types. It's just what is your flavor and actually have the skill for.

It's like the Rangers in EQ, some Rangers had the skill that they could actually play as the tank. Many others didn't have that skill, and some Rangers in EQ had the skill to were they could just annilihate the mob faster then others could do. It was just all dependant on their skill. Seems Rangers even on EQ proved to be a job of challenge considering they died so much they ended up coining the term "Ranger Gate" were as in FFXI we call it "Blood Warp" or "Death Warp".

[aegina]

as a ranger/ninja, the most i have ever dealt in a single hit is about 120-150 damage of so.
what's the most damage you've dealt as /war in a single shot against xp mobs?

(not ws's, just normal shots against xp mobs. also, i'm lvl 52 atm, if that matters)

[Caspian]

Is that a crit aegina? Or just a regular shot. Also, was it a flying mob?
I think one of the biggest draws for /war is that if you have a good enough tank and wouldn't pull hate on spamming arrows with /nin, then that gives a little leeway to the /war that wasn't there before. The /war is still capable of riding the hate line, while the /nin isn't w/o using Sidewinder or Barrage. Having a thf in the party helps this too.

[aegina]

i'm just trying to get a feel for the difference :)

i tried /war once, and i didn't like it. not having shadows made me feel naked :shudder:

[Lmnop]

hello, seekers of the /ra.

I'm not a ranger, but I'd like to state my only irritation with rng/nin: They ruin party formation. Given a Rng/nin who can consistently pull hate (such as with a nin tank pre-40ish), he will continue to cross that line and rely on a couple blinks to save his ass. It wanders over, takes a swing or 2, and wanders back. Not "tanking," just getting attention. Now toss in a bard who starts casting madrigal, and immediately the mob moves, the melee follow, the bard completes and hits no one. Another one is actually with thieves doing mid-battle SATA. I can think of other rare instances, which is what they are - rare. But with enough 'rare' situations that could potentially come to pass over a 3 hour exp period, you find yourself seeing one thing or another time and again. Once again, this is the only thing that really bothers me.. it's not a huge thing, obviously. But it still gets annoying when a RNG uses Barrage right before someone closes a SC and watch them lose their tp to the roaming mob.

This is also why I don't like the blm/nin movement. I've known for a long time now that blm/nin has the potential to be about as scarey as pre-patch RNG -- just have to rely on mp. The problem is these blms have nothing to offer the party (3 mage, 3 melee is really a 4 melee party with a blm/nin), as well as their complete disregard for hate.

[Caspian]

Lol, I know how you feel. I played /nin for so long that its definately going to take some getting used to.

[aegina]

I'm not a ranger, but I'd like to state my only irritation with rng/nin...

...is actually with thieves doing mid-battle SATA.

whenever i party with a thief, i always make sure to stand behind the tank. that way, if i pull hate (and i will:evil: ) it doesn't turn the mob, so it doesn't mess up sata.


of course, i also play a thief, so i know how frustrating it can be to try to land a sata with an uncooperative party

[Apple Pie]

It's off topic but /SAM is, I think, the best combo for 60-capped Ballista as RNG.

Meditation allows me to gain TPs without standing at the frontline at the risk of death. Store TP gives me a little TP bonus per shot.

I love to use either Musketeer Gun +1 or Selene's Bow for higher WS damage but it is hard to hit moving objects with these slow ranged weapons. With NIN or WAR sub for example, I can only shoot 7 - 8 Sidewinders/Slugshots but with SAM sub, I can do 13 - 15 times and get more GB status eventually.

BTW, I love to do SC (http://grendal.sppd.ne.jp/FF11/diary/200603/04/fragment.wmv) at Ballista and /SAM gives me more chances to do that :thumbsup:

I haven't tried /SAM in a PT yet and I cannot really comment on that...

[Caspian]

Sorry, I know this post is way off topic, but it just has to be done.

APPLE PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EE!!!!!!!!!!!!! We miss you, you should post more often here. I know you still have your journal, but its just not the same, especially since I usually look at this forum at work and the filter here blocks just about everything else.

Now, on-topic: I like that idea. Third Eye makes for a makeshift, uninterruptable shadow and solves a lot of the problems created by the ranger patch. Have you tried using Ebow for the lower delay? Might help out a little bit. I really wish they would change it so that dmg/accuracy was based on distance when you hit ctrl+d, not distance when it actually fires. It just seems to create unnecessary problems for the sake of being annoying.

[Devlang]

I personally have grown so used to using /nin I have trouble changing. I do use /war while doing bcnm's like Royal Jelly though.

[Spider-Dan]

I use /SAM for HNM, just to facilitate maximum # of SCs.

[greydaze]

I want to share my experience with /nin with you guys.

I'm not saying /war and /sam aren't good options too, but this is what works for me.

I'm decked out in +racc gear. PCC (on loan from a friend), noct +1 hands, AF legs/feet/body/head (need the new feet pieces), +1 racc rings, hawkers, fransisca, etc. And I have an 85-90% hit rate without sushi, depending on where I stand. With BRD in the PT, I hit (with selene's bow + Demon's Arrows) for 150-180 per notmal shot and 500-800 for barrage, with WS doing 800-1500 (PPA). This is all while using yellow curry. Without BRD, subtract 10-15 points per shot due to moving closer to mob.

I pull hate. I try not to, I manage my hate well, but I still do. At level 62, those shadows help. I could manage without them, but I'd rather just stock up on RACC through gear and job, and use food to boost my RATK. Also, making your own PTs is good because with thf, brd and pld, you can do almost anything you like and make damage similar to pre-patch.

/Nin isn't the wave of the past, but there are new ways I have tweaked it. If my friend had offered the use of his PCC a year and a half ago before I went on hiatus, I'd have said, <thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.> Now, I have changed the way I play a bit. I was always a ranged-only RNG and I always used the best equipment and arrows (e-bow... how I miss thee... T.T). My sidewinders never did over 1100 on an IT mob before, and now if I stand near the edge of the ranged circle, they do. I enjoy this job, and with so few RNG on the server, it doesn't matter what my SJ is as long as I play well and make a reputation for myself.

[Macht]

RNG/NIN definatly is not a thing of the past. Though with the changes done to RNG their abilities are placed more in check. In effect for RNG/NIN to get the maximum potential of damage from their attacks they'd have to ride the hate line now, otherwise the mob gets close and their damage takes a 25% loss.

RNG/WAR with berserk actualy counters that 25% loss so if the mob advances on them they'll still be on par damage wise to a RNG/NIN who is at optimal distance. Though a RNG/WAR won't land as many as RNG/NIN if they are going all +rng. acc. in a good balance their accuracy ratio to RNG/NIN only ends up with like a 2%-5% difference not large enough to make the off-handed weapon that huge an improvement. This is ofcourse only true the closer you approach to about 29, after that mark the off-hand weapon's +rng. acc. becomes less effective dropping drastically if RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN have the right gear.

Outside of that depending on the mob I'm fighting going with just Berserk + Courel Sub + Demons + Sidewider it usually equates to about 1500 damage for me on a IT mob. RNG/NIN's superiority I still have no doubt is that they can avoid damage, most of the other stuff in a percentage view falls flat and shows them to be sacrificing damage potential for a slight consistency boost. The avoiding damage part of /NIN is an intoxicating perk that any job loves to get.

Oh greydaze, if you are still 62 I really wouldn't suggest the use of Yellow Curry yet unless you have a BRD giving you a single rng. att. boost. The +20% is reducing your potential if your Range Attack isn't near that like 375 area. It should currently be around 280 so a Royal Omelette, Imperial Omelette, Courel Sub +1, and Boiled Cockatrice should benefit you a lot more.

For an example the foods I mention give +22% vs. +20% around 280 you end up with this difference:

280*.22 = 61.6
280*.20 = 56

That's 5 more Rng. Att. you can push onto your total. If you have a BRD puts just 1 Rng. Att. boost song on you as long as it's a good one that pushes you near 375 then the Yellow Curry is far more beneficial to have then what I mentioned.

The two foods that are awsome at any level past 55 (except for like maybe 74 and 75), though are insaine expensive usually is Dragon Soup and Red Curry. That is if you are looking to boost Rng. Att. as high as possible.

The absolute best one should only use if you are getting a TON of Rng. Att. boosts and you are at like 74 or 75 is Dragon Steak.

[greydaze]

RNG/NIN definatly is not a thing of the past. Though with the changes done to RNG their abilities are placed more in check. In effect for RNG/NIN to get the maximum potential of damage from their attacks they'd have to ride the hate line now, otherwise the mob gets close and their damage takes a 25% loss.

RNG/WAR with berserk actualy counters that 25% loss so if the mob advances on them they'll still be on par damage wise to a RNG/NIN who is at optimal distance. Though a RNG/WAR won't land as many as RNG/NIN if they are going all +rng. acc. in a good balance their accuracy ratio to RNG/NIN only ends up with like a 2%-5% difference not large enough to make the off-handed weapon that huge an improvement. This is ofcourse only true the closer you approach to about 29, after that mark the off-hand weapon's +rng. acc. becomes less effective dropping drastically if RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN have the right gear.

Outside of that depending on the mob I'm fighting going with just Berserk + Courel Sub + Demons + Sidewider it usually equates to about 1500 damage for me on a IT mob. RNG/NIN's superiority I still have no doubt is that they can avoid damage, most of the other stuff in a percentage view falls flat and shows them to be sacrificing damage potential for a slight consistency boost. The avoiding damage part of /NIN is an intoxicating perk that any job loves to get.

Oh greydaze, if you are still 62 I really wouldn't suggest the use of Yellow Curry yet unless you have a BRD giving you a single rng. att. boost. The +20% is reducing your potential if your Range Attack isn't near that like 375 area. It should currently be around 280 so a Royal Omelette, Imperial Omelette, Courel Sub +1, and Boiled Cockatrice should benefit you a lot more.

For an example the foods I mention give +22% vs. +20% around 280 you end up with this difference:

280*.22 = 61.6
280*.20 = 56

That's 5 more Rng. Att. you can push onto your total. If you have a BRD puts just 1 Rng. Att. boost song on you as long as it's a good one that pushes you near 375 then the Yellow Curry is far more beneficial to have then what I mentioned.

The two foods that are awsome at any level past 55 (except for like maybe 74 and 75), though are insaine expensive usually is Dragon Soup and Red Curry. That is if you are looking to boost Rng. Att. as high as possible.

The absolute best one should only use if you are getting a TON of Rng. Att. boosts and you are at like 74 or 75 is Dragon Steak.

Sorry for the length of time since my response.

I currently am staticking with a BRD and able to cook all my own food. The info on curry rates it from anywhere from 20-32% RATK bonus, so I don;t know which to believe. I've thought about going with a different food, but it's easy to make 8-10 with breaks, keep two and sell the rest for a net profit. :)

Thanks for the advice tho!

[Macht]

Sorry for the length of time since my response.

I currently am staticking with a BRD and able to cook all my own food. The info on curry rates it from anywhere from 20-32% RATK bonus, so I don;t know which to believe. I've thought about going with a different food, but it's easy to make 8-10 with breaks, keep two and sell the rest for a net profit. :)

Thanks for the advice tho!

Were have you seend it at 32%? Somepage, MysteryTour, and a few other's I check all say 20%. If you say you got it from Allakhazam I'll die laughing. They get data so seriously wrong at times it is just hillarious. Last I knew their website mentioned nothing about some of the harder items to get from CoP, they had the weapons on there but no one knew how to get them. Many believing they were just fictional, most of the english sites now don't really mention the 3 items (Recollection of Suffering, Recollection of Animosity, and Recollection of Anxiety).

Look up those 3 on somepage they have them mentioned and even mention of a quest but no detail to the quest. Detail of the quest is on Japanese sites though. One of quite a few things you'll find wrong on the english sites.

Hmm, if you mean at 23% then that sounds like you mean red curry. Which hell man if you are making those like that share the wealth. I'd love to get red curry, just so damn expensive. :worry:

[greydaze]

Were have you seend it at 32%? Somepage, MysteryTour, and a few other's I check all say 20%. If you say you got it from Allakhazam I'll die laughing. They get data so seriously wrong at times it is just hillarious. Last I knew their website mentioned nothing about some of the harder items to get from CoP, they had the weapons on there but no one knew how to get them. Many believing they were just fictional, most of the english sites now don't really mention the 3 items (Recollection of Suffering, Recollection of Animosity, and Recollection of Anxiety).

Look up those 3 on somepage they have them mentioned and even mention of a quest but no detail to the quest. Detail of the quest is on Japanese sites though. One of quite a few things you'll find wrong on the english sites.

Hmm, if you mean at 23% then that sounds like you mean red curry. Which hell man if you are making those like that share the wealth. I'd love to get red curry, just so damn expensive. :worry:

Well, 32% at the wiki (i know, i know, inaccurate much) and I seem to remember somepage having it at 32% a while ago. Says 20% now, though. But that might be why the wiki has 32...

Honestly, I don't see that many boiled cockatrice sold, but yellow curry sells FAST. it's always been "the" rng food, and i guess it's still pretty popular. I make, on average, 150k per batch, including eating some of the profits myself (1-2 out of each batch). With breaks, I make between 8 and 10 out of every stack of ingredients. The coeurl meat is 30-40k per stack, the onions are 20k per stack, the spices come to about 15k, and the other ingredients are extremely cheap. They sell for 22-25k each, and there aren't too many others that have picked up on the big money to be made. every day or two, 7-10 curries sell, and that's quite a profit if i do it every day or so.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that an extra 5 ratk would be nice, but I'm not going to die without it. On the other hand, it's very very simple and time-efficient to make yellow curry.

But I probably will put RNG on hold for a week... I lost a PPA, and I need CP to get another. :cry:

[Macht]

lol, yeah love when player's make that sort of 'klick' out of a certain item. They are going with it because some other RNG they knew was using it too (Mindless acceptance of things is always at an all time high :worry:).

Thing I do know is that the yellow curry is better then those other foods at like 68, at that point though there's other foods that work even better then yellow curry but they are expensive. Yeah, after a certain point the yellow curry is just cheaper then the rest for an ok boost but because of people who don't study or search out that info they totally miss out on the ones that are better.

Actually when you look at it Royal Sautee (80 Rng. Att. Max), and Coeurl Sub +1 (80) are always better then Yellow Curry. Only real significant boost Yellow Curry gives that those two don't is the +20 HP. Then as your Rng. Att. starts to go beyond 385 then Bison Steak (90), Hedgehog Pie (90), Marbled Steak (95), Porcupine Pie (95), Dragon Steak (150), Dragon Soup (150), and Red Curry (150) all have Yellow Curry beat for Rng. Att. boost.

Can you imagine how insaine of Damage a RNG/WAR at 75 would potentially be with Red Curry. I mean with just like 450 Rng. Att. do Red Curry + Berserk + Warcry. Definatly overkill to attack, hitting up to 853 Rng. Att. and with 375 and that hitting 691 Rng. Att. >.>

Yellow Curry wouldn't reach that at 450 with Yellow+Berserk+Warcry it's 778 and at 375 with those 3 it's 661. Difference of 30~75 Rng. Att. goodness. Yeah though to hit the Rng. Att. needed to take full advantage of the boost from Red Curry you are basically forced to have BRD if you are not RNG/WAR otherwise as RNG/WAR you can pretty much reach it solo no problem.

Kind of funny RNG/NIN to cap out that attack would need a BRD singing Attack boosts, while a RNG/WAR while capped out with that attack would need a BRD for the Rng. Acc. boost to get that missing amount of accuracy that a RNG/NIN would have. Show how the two subs are sort of equal reflections of eachother.

[VZX]

The only thing I can see you have capped ranged attack is minuet III+IV + berserk + red curry considering you are fighting decorative weapon.
It's really hard to cap the ranged attack by only having one of the last 2 things I mentioned above.

[Caspian]

I thought he meant capping it for the food, not capping it against xp mobs. Or am I totally misunderstanding what you're saying?

[Apple Pie]

Again it's off topic but have you guys tried new foods added with the latest update? I checked both Ic Pilav and Sis Kebabi and confirmed they had RATK+.

Ic Pilav: HP+14%(CP65) STR+4 VIT-1 INT-1 ATK+22%(CP65) 3H 15-20K at AH
Ic Pilav+1: HP+15%(CP70) STR+5 VIT-2 INT-2 ATK+23%(CP70) 4H 30K at AH

SiS Kebabi: STR+6 VIT-2 INT-2 ATK+20%(CP70) 30m 2K each at Whitegate

There's no way to check exact numbers of RATK+ but they are usually the same as the number of ATK+.

Ic Pilav is slightly better than boiled cockatrice and Sis Kebabi is really cheap. You may want to check them out.

[Caspian]

Nice find, thanks Grendal.

[Macht]

Well the definate benefit of the Ic Pilav is the HP boost +14% and +15% is pretty good, higher then any HP Max boost food I've seen along with also being Rng. Att. boost it's a decent boost too. As long as you have 366 HP or higher the Ic Pilav would seem to get you a good HP bonus, I wonder what the HP bonus max is though. If it caps at like 25-30 then the food is kind of negligable on how good it is.

I thought he meant capping it for the food, not capping it against xp mobs. Or am I totally misunderstanding what you're saying?

That's correct that was what I ment it was only getting straight out numbers on about were you end up. Capping against a mob that's a different story and part of judging that player should be doing. I mean why on earth would I want to push my Rng. Att. to 800+ or so to kill a mob in South Gustaberg. That would be silly, since if you are capable of pushing rng. att. that high you should be capable to kill nearly any mob there in 1 hit. So pushing attack that high is pointless since you'll already be maxed.

The whole point was measuring against how a RNG/NIN and RNG/WAR can be almost equalized in strength, it was to show they have a potential for matching strengths. Still each job is capable of excelling in different ways one of which VZX pointed out.