Can Rangers go /war all the way now?

[Hitokami]

After reading the previous posts, I have noticed that /nin is dropping in popularity and /war seems to be rising. Ill have to do further research in game to see if this is true, but what I was wondering was if /nin is necessary anymore?

I know ninja as a sub job has its place, but can I just have war sub and take rng to 75? I have always loved the Ranger job class but i could not stand thinking of leveling up ninja with the additional cost of shihei for 36 levels. I am a bit of a money stickler but I am willing to level up my woodworking as to suplement the cost of arrows/bows. I just want to know if people will not invite me because they see the /war? as well as your experiences with /war post-patch.

[nanatsu]

/war has become a more than acceptable sub choice for rng and it worked well even before the change. You'll still get plenty of invites as /war, not to mention you won't have many rngs to compete with now anyway. :p But yeah, /nin definitely still has its use but both subs will work just fine. I had no troubles getting invites as /war but I switched to the /war sub at around late 40s, early 50s. You should be fine tho. Nin sub doesn't even become very useful for rng until 24.

Double Post Edited:
I'll add that level 24 is when RNG can use the Utsusemi: Ichi ninjutsu, Later on you can dual wield archer/hawker knives for more ranged accuracy. Reason why /war sub is used now is because it boosts the damage of rng closer to pre-update status.

[Caspian]

Same thing as above. Its really best to have both subs available. Patch kinda burned me in that now I have to go back and lvl WAR again. /NIN has its place in areas at endgame, and can be useful in xp, its just debatable which is better now in normal xp parties. /WAR so much dmg that its worth the loss of utsusemi and dual wield. You have to play it different, no spamming arrows until you get hate. Pulling is a little more difficult but not bad. Shouldnt have any problems at all with invites as /WAR. Especially now.
Good luck to you.

[Balfree]

yep as /war your attitute in battle will be the same as blm's, hold those 'nukes' inside for a moment more~

had /nin in pt yesterday and i can honestly say that people saying rng sucks prepatch are retarded

[Hitokami]

Well this is good news for me (even though this is a bad time for rangers) I have always wanted this job and the two factors that were holding me back are gone. These are the ninja sub job requirement and the amount of players with the job.

I know there are some of you who do appreciate the patch in that it took all the players who sucked at it away from the job. This makes the job class much more challenging as well as less popular. I am looking forward to raising my Ranger and Woodworking skills ^_^.

[Jei]

I feel naked without my 2 archers knives /cry
I remember tho, when fire staff first came out, many rangers go /war and use the staff. They got aggro very often ^^

[Macht]

I feel naked without my 2 archers knives /cry
I remember tho, when fire staff first came out, many rangers go /war and use the staff. They got aggro very often ^^

That's just overkill on Attack, you'd be forced to use like Iron Arrows or something to avoid the crazy hate from the damage. Then again if forced to Iron Arrows getting good damage then it probably can save your wallet the bad punches >.>

I still love RNG/WAR started as RNG/WAR since RNG was lv. 1, tried RNG/NIN it's major benefit is that you can just careless shoot the hell out of anything. Doesn't matter if it is start of battle or to finish with an overkill Sidewinder when the mob is like 1/8th HP bar left.

RNG/WAR is different though in that you have to strategize your attacks more and have backup plans if a needed hit misses. On top of this mixing the food you eat works great with RNG/WAR, if the enemy happens to be to agile for you to hit normally pop in accuracy food and rely on Berserk for the attack bonus and you can still do well.

The favorite of mine with RNG/WAR is I have a scale of damage I can choose to do that RNG/NIN doesn't get. With attack food and berserk an Iron Arrow can equal the damage of a Scorpion Arrow or Elemental Arrows that a RNG/NIN would use. Then if the need comes for more damage then you have the Scorpion Arrow and Elemental Arrows to pull out more damage. Top it off with your best damaging arrow for a Sidewinder and with RNG/WAR depending on what mob it is you can likely kill it when it has Half or 1/4 it's HP left with an IT monsters.

EDIT:

Also, even though RNG/WAR has to strategize when to really pull out all the punches and such it doesn't inhibit their damage as badly as people would think. Yes you have to hold back like a BLM does, but if you get good at it then unlike a BLM you can pull of quicker finishing kills for greater damage.

Its just going to good timing and decision of when to act.

[Loic]

I plan on going rng/war or rng/thf as soon as i hit level 30 with thf. war is leveled etc. how would i go about achieving top DD with thf as sub. would i show same patience [ or no patience per'se ] as ninja and just barrage. i know with war it takes patience and knowledge to know when to hit. just want your opinions on rng/thf. Rng/war is already a definet either way. if rng/thf is best for farming then ill save it for that if not solid in pt setting.

[Jei]

with /thf the only real useful ability in party play would be flee. May come in handy if you're pulling fast-paced mobs.
But then /nin will offer similar safe guard with utsusemi. And not limitting to 5 minutes per use.
Sneak attack, trick attack don't work with range weapons. And treasure hunt will help almost nothing on exp mobs.

[Caspian]

Jei nailed it. /THF is for solo use only. Stick with /WAR or /NIN for xp use.

[Avoklex]

From my experience, most of the Rangers I know and party with /war in arrow burn parties and have a lot of merits in Archery. That is why they use Fire Staff and Attack Food like Red Curry. Crazy damage and the mob last like 30 secs if that.

Answer your question: Yes, war is an awesome sub, alot of people use it for the solo sessions when they are first starting out. If you you can try and get SAM up there as a viable sub, sometimes parties or even god fights they want as much damage as possible. Nothing like spamming Sidewinder/Slug Shot all the time ^^

[Machaveli]

Neither sub will take you 1-75. Both have their uses. While /NIN can take you 1-75, WAR can't unless you can always convince your party to camp somewhere with slow moving mobs. When you need to pull raptors any sort of distance, they'll catch up to you and start pounding you before you can reach the camp. In Lufaise Meadows, the big birds are extremely fast and you really cant' make it back to camp unless you have shadows.

[Macht]

Neither sub will take you 1-75. Both have their uses. While /NIN can take you 1-75, WAR can't unless you can always convince your party to camp somewhere with slow moving mobs. When you need to pull raptors any sort of distance, they'll catch up to you and start pounding you before you can reach the camp. In Lufaise Meadows, the big birds are extremely fast and you really cant' make it back to camp unless you have shadows.

The condition you stated is true only if the party is always in the mind set that RNG are suppose to be pullers. Anything that is /NIN or a NIN are effective pullers it's that job which allows them to 'tow' along a mob for longers distances.

If you breakdown RNG/NIN and RNG/WAR along with the supposed % boosts foods can get you you'll come up with something like (This is considering if your gear is all focused toward Rng. Acc.):


RNG/WAR + Berserk + Rng. Att. Food (20% boost) -> RNG/NIN + Rng. Att. Food (20% boost) : RNG/WAR (Rng. Att. + 5%, Rng. Acc. -10%) -> RNG/NIN (Rng. Att. -15%, Rng. Acc. + 5%)

RNG/WAR + Berserk + Rng. Acc. Food (15% boost?) -> RNG/NIN + Rng. Acc. Food (15% boost) : RNG/WAR (Rng. Att. +10% , Rng. Acc. +1%) -> RNG/NIN (Rng. Att. -20%, Rng. Acc. +15%)

Above info is not accurate, I've already done the actual math and had posted it in a previous thread. The above is for example of what the math result had presented, and can actually see it translate into the game. Search should help you find it.

As you'll notice RNG/NIN supports Accuracy more but at the cost of Attack. The cost of attack gets eaten even worse if the RNG/NIN is not in the sweet spot for the attacks, so even though you are guarenteed to hit nearly every time you can end up needing to land 2-6 shots to equal or pass the damage from RNG/WAR landing just 1-2 shot. That is were you can see the RNG change taking the most profound effect.

Both RNG/NIN and RNG/WAR are very effective subs how the two play though are quite different.

[Cometgreen]

I've noticed a few of these discussions, but I don't remember anyone bringing up the subject of race. Is it still preferable for Elvaan Rangers to sub NIN for the extra Rng Acc, or could Elvaan land enough shots with /War to stay effective?

[VZX]

If you breakdown RNG/NIN and RNG/WAR along with the supposed % boosts foods can get you you'll come up with something like (This is considering if your gear is all focused toward Rng. Acc.):


RNG/WAR + Berserk + Rng. Att. Food (20% boost) -> RNG/NIN + Rng. Att. Food (20% boost) : RNG/WAR (Rng. Att. + 5%, Rng. Acc. -10%) -> RNG/NIN (Rng. Att. -15%, Rng. Acc. + 5%)

RNG/WAR + Berserk + Rng. Acc. Food (15% boost?) -> RNG/NIN + Rng. Acc. Food (15% boost) : RNG/WAR (Rng. Att. +10% , Rng. Acc. +1%) -> RNG/NIN (Rng. Att. -20%, Rng. Acc. +15%)

Above info is not accurate, I've already done the actual math and had posted it in a previous thread. The above is for example of what the math result had presented, and can actually see it translate into the game. Search should help you find it.

I don't know how to read it. could you explain a little bit more what does those "->" mean?

[Caspian]

I've noticed a few of these discussions, but I don't remember anyone bringing up the subject of race. Is it still preferable for Elvaan Rangers to sub NIN for the extra Rng Acc, or could Elvaan land enough shots with /War to stay effective?

The difference in race is so small that it really doesnt matter. Sub whatever you want. You will hit for slightly more as elvaan, and possibly hit maybe a percent or two less. Nothing that will make or break your job. Don't worry about it, just do whichever you want.

[Avoklex]

An Elvaan that has merited Arch/Marks up the wazoo can be very effective with /WAR. I know this cuz my LS leader has done and he hits like a truck when he /WAR. He also used Fire Staff and has STR merited to the max.

[greydaze]

Well, I just got my Sbow, and I thought I could share my experiences:

I use hawker/fransisca, PCC (borrowed from a friend), amemit's mantle, noct gloves +1, RK +1 belt, AF head body legs feet, normal ears/rings. Level 63.

I eat yellow curry unless I'm not hitting, but so far most PTs have been with BRDs and I can step back much further than usual to do added damage. Here's what I've seen:

Demon arrows: 130-180, depending on where I stand, with a 90% hit rate. Barraqe 500-900. SW 800-1500 (1500 very rare, mostly in the 900-1200 range).

Ice arrows: 115-155 with 4-10 added damage depending on where I stand with 85-90% hit rate. Barrage 400-700, SW 800-1500 (I use PPA, so this doesn't change).

This is up about 10-30 points per shot from war bow +1.

[Macht]

I don't know how to read it. could you explain a little bit more what does those "->" mean?

Mentioned those numbers I posted were not accurate, the accurate one is on a different thread here. I just simply didn't want to waste my time finding my work again after I've already presented it here.

The "->" really had no meaning, just simply the bonuses were matched RNG/WAR to RNG/NIN and which surpassed the base stats of RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN when they had the food type in question. Simply what it broke down to stating is:

RNG/WAR + Berserk + rng. att. food = Strongest damage potential, lowest Accuracy
RNG/WAR + Berserk + rng. acc. food = Second Strongest damage potential, Second highest accuracy
RNG/NIN + rng. att. food = Third strongest damage potential, Third highest accuracy
RNG/NIN + rng. acc. food = Lowest damage potential, Highest Accuracy

That is only if you are comparing Damage and Accuracy, as it shows RNG/WAR has possibility for better position in both of those. RNG/WAR lacks the defensive capabilities which are unmatched though against RNG/NIN.

[Fanjul]

Although I can't really comment on how popular one sub is over another, I know that I took /nin up with my static for about 60 levels (I was designated puller so I enjoyed the shadows), and only recently gave /war a try. After a few xp sessions like that the static no longer wants me subbing /nin :-) The difference in damage was extremely noticeable even without Beserk up, I'm assuming from the additional Strength that /war provides me (since Mithra's aren't top notch in Strength to begin with so even a bit of a change seems to make a noticeable difference).

Previously I could spam bolts or arrows, use Sharpshot >> Slug Shot >> Barrage >> Slug Shot and still not pull hate off our PLD tank (granted we start out a mob with a SATA onto him)... but now I've been pulling hate at random times even with just a single WS. It's a nice change to have to manage my hate a bit better and feel like i'm contributing more to the party, and definitely makes the experience a bit more involved and interesting ^.^ yay for /war, it has my vote!