Blu 2hr idea!

[Kaylik]

Well for those who have played Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, then you may know of the Blue mage support ability that takes MP dmg instead of HP. So I think that the BLU 2hr should be similar to this. This would have a "provoke" effect and make the mob attack you but you only recieve MP dmg. I believe this would work much like a PLDs Invincible and last for about 30+sec. This was just an idea i had, tell me what you think or if you have your own BLU 2hr.

[Macht]

Think what you just stated has generally been the specialty of Blue Mages to take damage to MP instead of HP. How they choose to impliment that though will be intresting to see.

Outside of that with how many monster abilities that exists and how powerful some are I could see 2hr possibly acting like SMNs Astral Flow but the Blue Mage deals what SE would consider a powerful ability of that monster or enhancing the next ones he uses.

I'm actually quite curious of what Traits will they give the Blue Mage. Seems every Mage has Clear Mind so that seems like a given but what else? RDM has Fast Cast, BLM has Conserve MP, WHM has Regen HP, SMN has Regen MP, BLU has ???

[Altae]

However, with a potential 2 hour ability like that comes the question of whether Invincible can override the hate or not. Like how Invincible has a more hated effectiveness than Benediction.

[Macht]

However, with a potential 2 hour ability like that comes the question of whether Invincible can override the hate or not. Like how Invincible has a more hated effectiveness than Benediction.

Lol, ooh that'll be an intresting add your mention of Benediciton had me wonder. What if the Blue Mages 2hr is like Benediction but instead of HP it's MP. Probably a little close to BLMs Manafont in an effect though.

[Crowzukin]

Oh man, I can just see the selfish party members now...

"omg im like at 10%mp y didnt u use ur 2hr!!!!?"

[Pai Pai Master]

Moved to Blue Mage forums.

Yes, we have a Blue Mage forum now. :)

[LadyPeorth]

1st idea: It could work...but that'd just inspire a huge amount of down time. The whole point of a 2hr is an "oh s***" button so to speak...to use when you are in dire need of an ability (save Dragoon). As a Blue Mage, sure you'd tank fine till you run out of MP...then you'd be dead. You might be able to use Battery (Magic Pot Skill) to give you a few extra seconds, or lower down time...but chances are that ability has a huge cooldown.

2nd idea: AoE MP Benediction. Very very situational. Quite possible...but I don't really see it happening. Square-Enix tends to keep rehashed stuff for Job Abilities and keeps the 2hr somewhat unique.

[Coinspinner]

Lol, ooh that'll be an intresting add your mention of Benediciton had me wonder. What if the Blue Mages 2hr is like Benediction but instead of HP it's MP. Probably a little close to BLMs Manafont in an effect though.

I'd use that abilty every two hours or so.

(Mistigris) (Manadiction) (ready) you manadicts!
Mistigris uses Manadiction!
Mistigris recovers 537 MP!
Landstander recovers 819 MP!
Assofjack recovers 789 MP!
Hankthetank recovers 213 MP!
Emonator recovers 174 MP!
Kainxvii recovers 0 MP!
(Mistigris) lol drg

[IamNate]

I was thinking about this for awhile myself actually, since SE is gearing FFXI towards a little bit more solo-friendly of late, to compete with WoW and such, BLU could possibly be an answer to that. They said, offically, Blue mage will be a hybrid job. Possessing melee advantage and mage skill, like a Red Mage, but slightly more melee effective. So a 2hr, Channel. It would act like the HP absorb move Mammets used in CoP missions, where any physical damage recieve would convert directly into HP gain. It'd be a nice way to keep your butt alive for a few seconds if its a dire thing, and if blue mage is also supposed to be meant towards a new tank position (there is mention of a alternative tank being added, possibly) it would be better than Invincible if it draws hate the same way.

[Darkages]

i would think it would being so powerful it would b a advance job blue sounds like a mix of rdm powers and a lil of blm ablilitys in it but alot more powerful i bet blu would b my number one job under smn and whm bc there both hl around level 50

[Macht]

LadyPeorth, not all the 2hrs are an "Oh S***" use type. Eagle Eye Shot after Sidewinder and Barrage it's damage is just a little extra. Astral Flow is useless if you are out of MP, so it's to be used in planned attack. BSTs 2hr just enhances what ever monster you've currently charmed useless for last ditch effort if you don't have a pet. BRDs Soul Voice basically lets you lay on 2 of the same effect with the Soul Voice one lasting longer. Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists is only effective if you can land the hits. Of course the DRGs 2hr is a given it isn't a last effort 2hr.

The only ones that seem to really qualify are the SAMs 2hr, NINs 2hr, Invincible, Benediction, Manafont, Chainspell (better if RDM is capable of convert), Blood Weapon, and Perfect Dodge.

Another possible I thought depends on yet another idea of how Blue Mage might work. If Blue Mages are limited to how much they can learn of monster abilities at a time then a 2hr that expands how many monster abilities they can learn or lets them learn a monster ability instantly for their current play session.

[Jokerboy1]

i think u will turn into a giant pie.. and the mob will eat u.. then u will claw ur self outta him! instant kill.... lol

[Hyrist]

Actually my Guess at a BLU 2hr woudl be quite simply "Learn" Every two hours you can attempt to extract an ability from your opponet, or mabe upgrade the level of the skill absorbed.

It woudl make sence seemign there has to be a way to regulate the learning Curve that BLU will have over other job classes.

[SpiderKing]

An interesting idea.

[DakAttack]

2hr will most likely be Lancet, giving the job a more 'pokemon' feel where you must pick and choose what abilities you'd like to attempt to obtain. Obviously it wouldn't be 100% success, so you can't just collect abilities like trading cards.

[Tokitoki]

i think u will turn into a giant pie.. and the mob will eat u.. then u will claw ur self outta him! instant kill.... lol


I liked this idea the best >.>

[Jokerboy1]

Whoo!

[Darkages]

i liked the learn ability better but it dont mkae since to b 2h then u couldnt get all the abilitys that u need bc each monster has many different ws ex:rabbits whirl claws and otehr one is the kick move im at school cant find out wat it is atm

[nanatsu]

Hrm. I don't think having the 2hr as Learn or Lancet is a good idea. I don't think having the 2hr be the one thing that allows a blue mage to learn their abilities is a good idea. Why? Well because there won't be an infinite amount of abilities for Blue Mages to learn. Eventually, the 2hr will become useless and never used again. Not useless in the sense that some 2hrs are worse for party play than others. Useless in the sense that it simply won't have any use at all.

[Macht]

Hrm. I don't think having the 2hr as Learn or Lancet is a good idea. I don't think having the 2hr be the one thing that allows a blue mage to learn their abilities is a good idea. Why? Well because there won't be an infinite amount of abilities for Blue Mages to learn. Eventually, the 2hr will become useless and never used again. Not useless in the sense that some 2hrs are worse for party play than others. Useless in the sense that it simply won't have any use at all.

That is of course assuming that in this version of Blue Magic they don't make it volitile. If they make the spell volitile were the ability to use them can become lost and need relearned then the 2hr would never become useless.

[Lone Dragon]

Yes, but that would mean the mage would have to 'stock up' on spells to be useful in any situation, with a 2 hour wait between mobs.

I believe the OP's idea is a very likely candidate for a BLU JA.
Since many of the better moves are cone-AE, even if the learn system is not based on actually suffering an attack, it would make it easier to learn skills while serving to keep the player alive, if only for a bit longer.
As a 2H, it's functional to an extent without being an extreme at either end of the usefulness scale.
As a normal JA, it would serve to make BLU very sturdy and flexible, though depending on its length, subbing it could produce some interesting results for some mages...

In any case, I believe we’ll see it, come expansion.

[Macht]

That is also assuming that the spell fade after use. What if say you could only learn a certain set of spells, then after the 2hrs or something you loose that set and need to learn a new set. Or even you could only learn a certain set of spells but to learn another set then when the 2hrs activated it wipes your previous set, there's a bunch of possible variations.

That'll probably be a bit annoying though for party but point is, don't limit your thought to much to just 1 design. At least don't limit it yet until SE gives away little more about it.

[LadyPeorth]

LadyPeorth, not all the 2hrs are an "Oh S***" use type. Eagle Eye Shot after Sidewinder and Barrage it's damage is just a little extra. Astral Flow is useless if you are out of MP, so it's to be used in planned attack. BSTs 2hr just enhances what ever monster you've currently charmed useless for last ditch effort if you don't have a pet. BRDs Soul Voice basically lets you lay on 2 of the same effect with the Soul Voice one lasting longer. Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists is only effective if you can land the hits. Of course the DRGs 2hr is a given it isn't a last effort 2hr.

The only ones that seem to really qualify are the SAMs 2hr, NINs 2hr, Invincible, Benediction, Manafont, Chainspell (better if RDM is capable of convert), Blood Weapon, and Perfect Dodge.

Astral Flow can be used as an "Oh s***" if there is a link and you need to dispose of your current monster fast and handle the link.

Eagle Eye shot? Tank dies and you hafta put the monster down fast.

Beast 2hr? Good if it looks like you might die, need your pet to take hate, or absolutely need a pet to try and keep you from dying.

Soul Voice. Activate, dual paeons for +18HP regen a tick to everyone or +6 MP regen per tick...or to extend sleep on a mob and increase chance of landing.

Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists...regardless on if you hit or not are strong. Hundred Fists increases your chance of hitting to very high...even if the mob is evasion boosted. Likewise, Mighty Strikes increases the damage you do exponentially. Also if you weren't hitting before...chances are you should not be where you are.

Dragoon 2hr is the only one I agree with. This is not an panic button.

Edit: While I do agree that some 2hrs must be planned and that they are not all panic buttons in the sense, they all may be used like panic buttons (save DRG) and are mostly only used as panic buttons, probably cause of the steep recast.

Back on topic. I was thinking the Blue's 2hr could be a visual learning period of say 3 minutes. During that time, you wouldn't need to be hit by a spell to learn it. This is a kind of varied 2hr rather than the standard "oh s***" button.

Only problem is...it isn't really useful in a fight. It also has a limited use...once you learn all self only buff skills and such...it hits its peak. While it would take a while...it still is possible.

Might make all attacks AoE...but that again is highly situational.

Blood weapon but with MP? Possibly...but seems like a rehash.

Perhaps...it will function somewhat like Astral Flow, yet somewhat not. With your 2hr in use, you could perhaps use Beastmen/Arcana/Undead/Wyrmal type enemy skills. This would be somewhat balancing (they'd probably have steep MP costs) and would limit those overpowered moves.

[Lone Dragon]

Yes, but why must one consider the arbitrarily impractical, Macht?

Even if the learn effect lasted 2 hours, good PTs usually last much longer than that and the mobs you battle in an area are normally strong against the abilities they use.
Going out of your way to relearn abilities would just serve to make it the least popular job in the game.
In the case of gil-based jobs, such as NIN & RNG, you can at least sell the items you gather during a PT, a BLU would not have this luxury.
I don't understand why you think it needs to be gimped in this manner.

Or perhaps I'm just not getting the meat of your proposal?

[DakAttack]

That is of course assuming that in this version of Blue Magic they don't make it volitile. If they make the spell volitile were the ability to use them can become lost and need relearned then the 2hr would never become useless.

It could be possible that you might not actually learn abilities, but instead you simply borrow them. I suppose that would be too much like the Mime, but it's possible. In the trailer the Blue Mages each showcased a single monster ability, which does support the mime-like idea, but there weren't enough examples to prove it.

I suppose it could enable the Blue Mage to take damage to their MP before HP, which would work well seeing as how it's a catch twenty-two like other two-hour abilities. You can provide a little more lengevity in an emergency by tanking, but to pull hate you must use your MP. Using your MP will be depleting your MP, which is what's keeping your alive.

[Altae]

I'm beginning to agree on how the 2hour shouldn't be something like "learn" or some other ability-gain ability. The 2hour's effect needs to be temporary, refilling, or simply damage. These seem to be the main three types of 2Hours in FFXI so far.

RDM: Chainspell is temporary and applicable for refilling oppurtunities or damage.
WAR: Mighty Strikes is temporary and damage.
PLD: Invincible is temporary.
BLM: Manafont is temporary and applicable for refilling oppurtunities or damage.
WHM: Benediction is refilling.
BRD: Soul Voice is temporary.
DRK: Blood Weapon is temporary, damage, and refilling for the DRK only.
DRG: Call Wyvern is variant. It depends on how long your wyvern can stay alive or if you do something to leave the server.

MNK: Hundred Fists is temporary and damage.
THF: Perfect Dodge is temporary.
RNG: Eagle Eye Shot is damage.
NIN: Mijin Gakure is damage.
SAM: Meikyo S. is refilling and damage.
SMN: Astral flow is temorary and can be used for damage.

Mind the terminology, but nothing here seems to be permanant. Depending on what monsters you fight, the damage from "Damage 2Hours" can be shaken off if they've got a healing ability. The HP you regain from benediction, from a RDM, BLM, or BRD can be lost again. So, the 2Hour for Blue Mage simply cannot be something permanant forever. Besides damage, as that is still variant on what monsters you fight, It'd have to be something melee + mage.

Now, unless "Learn/Extract/whatever" were the 2hour, and a temporary ability, wouldn't this make Blue Mage seemingly an undesirable job to play? 2Hour-wise anyway. Nobody seemingly likes DRK 2hour, as the HP drain isn't 100% reliable. Mighty Strikes, Hundred Fists, and Call Wyvern, they're all not such gung-ho abilities.

Just think about it, your party is in trouble and in a attempt to save the PT, your Blue Mage activates his/her 2hour ability. This Goblin you pulled is slashing party members left and right. But before you know it, the Blue Mage has extracted a random ability from the Goblin. Now they know how to use "Bomb Toss"? An ability that has a chance to kill him/herself or deal massive damage to the opponent? Sure, this may be 1 particular scenario where the PT is fighting a Goblin. Whereas fighting a different type of monster and learning it's abilities could be more useful. But that's not the point. Every other job's 2hour ability has a usefulness no matter what monster you fight. Even the DRK's and DRG's.

[LadyPeorth]

Imagine if instead you're fighting a crab (what you fight for a long time) and you get the AoE move...or even better Bubble Shield (shell effect). Not too useful during the fight. If the 2hr itself is "Learn" and you learn the move for later...this makes it incredibly anal to level. Not only do you hafta use your move every 2hrs on a different monster...but you also pray you hafta get the right move. Pretty soon you'll see: "Healing Breeze onry" or "No Spike Flail, No Thanks"

[Caspian]

I cant imagine the 2hr being how you learn abilities. No other job is really defined by its 2hr (except for drg, and this one is unlike any others in that it is in theory infinite), so why would this job be any different. All other 2hr's have been a way for short term increased efficiency in whatever that job was designed for. My guess would either be the MP tanking that was mentioned earlier, or something like BST's 2hr in that your next blue magic spell is much more powerful.

[nanatsu]

I cant imagine the 2hr being how you learn abilities. No other job is really defined by its 2hr (except for drg, and this one is unlike any others in that it is in theory infinite), so why would this job be any different. All other 2hr's have been a way for short term increased efficiency in whatever that job was designed for. My guess would either be the MP tanking that was mentioned earlier, or something like BST's 2hr in that your next blue magic spell is much more powerful.

But remember also that they said in an interview that the new jobs would introduce whole new ways of playing. So I think at this point anything is probably possible. Depends on their definition of whole new ways of playing.

[Caspian]

But remember also that they said in an interview that the new jobs would introduce whole new ways of playing. So I think at this point anything is probably possible. Depends on their definition of whole new ways of playing.

True, I didnt think of that.

[Kuniwa]

by seeing how much info i've obtained by the rumors and gameplay of the bluemage i'd like to give a small job description on the new job bluemage coming out for the new expansian...

Skills: 2hour - ( [name] damage is dealt to mp instaed ) :Duration: 30secs

Learn - i thought that Learn should be a buff skill, meaning that when cast on self
it has a duration of about 5mins and could be recast at 30secs. the learn buff goes
away once a new ability has been obtained or K.O'd.

Stats: thinking on how states will be. looking at the bluemage immunity ability in
final fantasy advance. perhaps different elemental base imunity will be learned from
obtaining certain levels, also adding in the chances of learning would be a nice touch
to it.

and these are my thoughts on how i believe the bluemage will be like. by all means please tell me what you think. i'll be veiwing this thread, thank you very much!

[Enialas]

The only ones that seem to really qualify are the SAMs 2hr, NINs 2hr, Invincible, Benediction, Manafont, Chainspell (better if RDM is capable of convert), Blood Weapon, and Perfect Dodge.


post-convert, ChainSpell can be a panic button, before more or less preplanned because you must have MPs. Even Yagudo Drinks don't give you the mps you need fast enough and even if you are 39 you still have 11 levels to go to use a darkstaff while resting and by the time you cast and rest for 1 tic, Chainspell is wears off. Unless of course everyone demands rdms to carry no less than 5 ethers to xp pt incase they have to 2hr.

you must decied before the fight that you are gonna 2hr because if you wait till the pld {Invincible} or the whm {Benediction} you have No mps to use because the pld wouldn't have {Invincible} and the whm {Benediction} if the rdm has any curing capacity. ok you {ChainSpell} Cure II & Regen on the tank and then you're out. So for your 1st 40 levels a rdms 2hr is almost worthless. You don't have the MPs for sneakga and invisga (Chainspell sneak x6 invisible x6), you can barely Regenga, maybe a taru can do this with breathing room, but certainly not an elvaan.

after convert, when you're over 1/2 way to max level, finally, finally you can actually use your 2hr with out having to have to preplan and as a panic button so after going thru half the game and only able to use your 2hr 4tfoi, you have to relearn you actually have 2 abilities, due to the utility and use of rdm's 2hr, it they put that at level 40 as well, you almost wouldn't notice a difference, neither will the rdms.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

in regards to OP:

a tempory learn w/ learn being your 2hr, yikes. yeah 2 hr on a mandy, you can cast self-regen for 2hrs, maybe they'll make it pt only or AoE Dreamflower some nearby White Lizards. maybe you would have been better off to 2hr the gob and die (causing down time) or zone it (causing downtime) and mpking everybody (making everyone hate blu's) this is a "new playing experience" I don't want.

that was just a Yuhtunga/Yhoter example, can you Imagine how bad Garlaige Citadel or Eldime Necropolis would be if that was the case?

even if they were to "manadiction" i doubt they'd have it do full mps

BLU: everyone use all your MPs i have 2hr up in 30 sec!

ManaShield would be godly for tarus. they would even have enough mps for warp or escape, and since MP damage doesn't wake stuff, I'm guessing unless stunned, manashield would make thier spells uninturruptable. since mp damage isn't considered normal damage.

EDIT: {Um..} maybe that's why they're so insistent on ending the MPK problem, because otherwise BLU will be THE MPK job. :shocked: :cry:

[Kuniwa]

seeing as how i read your reply, very much seems right. although all we can say is " it's a thought" not that it will be that way or how badly things will be if it ends up that way. i'd just like to see other peoples imagination towrds on how this mage will be put together. so okay, the damage to mp may be kinda weird in a since but , it's all we know of what the bluemage is capatble of, also the learning ability. perhaps the learning ability can be a trait and the luck of learning a new ability may boost by leveling to a higher level , instead of a buff tatic, but what can we say. all we can do is wait for the game to launch, and see how it ends up to be. seeing as how if bluemage had damage to mp, it would be godly just to say if they had refresh from redmage, or auto-refresh from summoner, even having armor re-fresh. just saying those will be like " omg! " not to mention foods liek melon juice. but seeing as how you know what your talking about. could you give a description on what you think a bluemage show role-play as , and how a bluemage should work in the system? if you could i'd be very much thankful cause i'm really into knowing what others think of the outcome. ( ^ ^)b

[fireyhope]

i think the Blue Mage 2 hour has to be some kind of Learning Monster Ability,
Or Possibly a 2 hour Ability that will make the Monster Unable to use his Ability? or basically stealing his ability and being able to use it for that amount of time?

Maybe the Blue Mage is limited to know the monster ability in a certain lvl? it's very uncertain but i'm pointing more toward about somehow using a monster ability or stealing one.

[Tokitoki]

The backbone to Blue Mage si the ability to learn the monster's attacks. You can't make the defining trait of a job a 2hr. BST uses Charm, WAR uses Prov, NIN uses Ninjutsu, THF uses Sneak Attack... none of these are 2hrs.

I think 'Learn' will be a lvl 5 or lvl 10 skill, lv 15 at the highest.

[eriatarka]

2 hours are emergency abilities that are only used when your in huge trouble and you get desperate. the ones that DONT make too big of an improvement are like brd and rdm... DRG for now though their 2 hour dosent count as a life saving thing, but maby after the update ^_^

Blue mage 2 hour will probobly just enhance something of theirs or make their abilities a little better much like bard and red mage

Double Post Edited:
About what i said about RDM and BRD's 2 hours about not making a BIG improvement, i ment their nice but dont save their lives in emergencies... now that i think about it more, rdm's does >_<

[Enialas]

Chainspell Warp/Escape/Teleport are lifesavers.

it's nice when someone Chainspell Raises you and your party too ;)

Absorb/Stun, Wyvern, Charm, Summon, Learn, Provoke, Healing Magic, Nuking, Ninjutsu, Steal/Sneak Attack, Enh/Enf/Fast Cast, Songs are job defining characteristics.

You should never have had to 2hr to play your job. Imagine your DRK has to 2hr to Stun, your RDM/BRD 2hr to Dispel/Refresh, 2hr For that Cure V, Freeze. Those are so integral, it's amazing those DRGs who put up with it, did. I wouldn't, I didn't.

sorry i didn't get everyones, defining moments/abilities but I'll boycott BLU like I did DRG if Learn is the 2hr.

[eriatarka]

i really feel if learn is the 2 hour it really wont be TOO BAD. say your in an xp PT. your normally fighting the same 1 or 2 monsters for much more than 2 hours. wouldnt be bad at all

[Karinya]

It's not that you need to learn more often than that, but rather that having learn as a 2hr would be worse than having no 2hr at all (because in that case, Learn would either be a trait or on a shorter timer).

Also, people would just laugh if a NM blue mage activated Learn... at least soul voice is a *bit* of a threat, and most of the others are pretty serious threats, or at least annoyances.

I would bet on Learn being a level 1 (or at least very low) job trait, but individual blue magics still require a certain BLU level in order to learn/cast them. Not sure how they're going to handle self-buff/heal abilities that are learnable (assuming there are some; the video only shows offensive abilities).

[Tokitoki]

learning Metallic Body would be nice, as would Cocoon.

[Enialas]

learning Metallic Body would be nice, as would Cocoon.

to get StoneSkin aka Metallic Body would be very nice for a BLU, especially if BLUs will have to be hit by offensive abilities to learn them. Otherwise they'll have to rely on one of 2 subjobs, well 3 if you want to include "Earthen Ward" which is so wasted if they're out soloing.

[Tokitoki]

I think it would work more like Quina from FFIX... (did i spell that right? lol) Where you use the eat ability and if they are weak enough you learn the ability. Only you wont be eating anything, itll be Learn <.<

[fireyhope]

I think it would work more like Quina from FFIX... (did i spell that right? lol) Where you use the eat ability and if they are weak enough you learn the ability. Only you wont be eating anything, itll be Learn <.<
i thought we made it clear that the blue2hour can not be learn

Double Post Edited:
learning Metallic Body would be nice, as would Cocoon.

not to mention that you can learn it in a lower lvl, a much lower lvl.

maybe to balance things out since some of the monster magic is powerful you will only be able to use learn if the attack does not kill you.

[Arianaos]

I also happen to think that "Learn" will be a low lv jobtrait or ability. but that you would only learn the spell if..
1. said mob had a ability to learn. (this would prevent the "Spiketail Onry" comment)
2. if the mob has a ability you can learn, you have to get the kill. (I can hear the pt's screaming "Let the Blue kill it!" now.)

For a 2hour, I really like the "Manadiction" idea :P blu's would become every mp users new best friend.

but also in regards to a lv 40ish ability, I vote Damage>MP.
have it last a minute with a 10min recast.
it'd be a autorefresh if you went /smn, would turn juices into regen drinks and ether's into potions.

This'll also be like the blu's personal version of Invincible/Benediction. use Damage>MP and fire off your 2hour after you take so much damage.
granted your blue wouldn't live long with the hate you gained from the 2hour, but with damage>MP up you'd have a shot at living long enough for the tank to get back hate.
plus I'm sure your fully recharged whm would help by throwing a few cures at you.