Avatar Perpetuation - Weird Occurrence

[SharMarali]

OK...

I went to help a friend get her Garuda whisper, and another SMN came along too. We had a RDM and a BRD with us, so ballad 1+2 and refresh. Something really odd happened.

Both of us had Shiva out. I was losing 2 MP every 3 seconds, and the other SMN's MP was staying completely level, no change whatsoever. I cannot for the life of me figure this out, and neither could any of us. She had an HQ ice staff, while I was using a normal one (because I'm po' .. lol), but that should have accounted for a difference of one MP/tick, not two.

Here were the differences in our equipment:

Boots: I was using elvaan RSE2 boots, she was using SMN AF2
Pants: I was using AF2, she was using AF1
Body: I was using austere, she was using dalmatica. (I have a vermillion cloak but I always swap to austere with an avatar out for the BP timer, plus the perpetuation cost - 1 equals out to be the same as the refresh)
Weapons: As mentioned previously, she had HQ ice staff and I had NQ version. Again, this should have accounted for a 1MP/tick difference, not 2MP/tick.
Everything else was identical in our gear. Well, she also had on a tavnazian ring and I had on an ether ring, but I didn't find that to be a massive difference worth mentioning.

To make this even more odd, she summoned Ifrit after the battle while we were trying to figure out why this happened, and she was losing 1MP/tick rather than staying level, using HQ fire staff. She summoned Shiva again and was staying level still.

For reference, it was a water day and double wind weather.

Any thoughts on why in the world A) She'd be losing TWO less MP a tick than me when the only equipment difference should have accounted for one and B) Ifrit would cost her more than Shiva, all other things being equal?

This is really going to bother me. Any thoughts on the topic welcome.

[grunion]

with evoker ring, penance robe (-2), and HQ stave, prime avatars cost me -6. with refresh+ballad, thats -0

with austere robe and NQ stave, and refresh+ballad, should cost you -2
with dalmatica and HQ stave, and refresh+ballad, should cost him -1

maybe he had a cheap +1mp drink like apple juice? actually that would overwrite refresh, never mind. no idea

[Alauna]

(as mentioned above, indirectly)

Evoker's Ring? Did both of you have it?

[nanatsu]

Well even if she had one and the OP didn't, the OP said the effect happened on Shiva and not Ifrit. And it was Watersday and double wind weather. Unless she had a macro that made her put on the ring when Shiva was called, and take it off when Ifrit was called, then that shouldn't make a difference.

[SharMarali]

We did both have the evoker's ring. And the calculations grunion posted were exactly the same as the ones I came up with. This just doesn't make any sense to me -.-

[Jordache]

I'm sorry to say this but your friend is a witch.

[Macht]

Only thing I haven't heard is the level of you and the other player. As far as I knew perpetuation cost increases with each level. I'm pretty sure you are also taking that into account, and the level you both are at would have Ifrit and Shiva being the same perpetuation cost.

Because if their level is right then maybe they are at a spot were shiva only costs them like 6 and it's 7 for you, that would account for the other 1 MP/Tick that's giving them the 2 MP/Tick over you. Yet their level is right were ifrit would cost them 7 and costs you 7?

Never played SMN to high levels so could only give suggestions of read knowledge and the little that I have done with SMN.

To quote Tomoh from another post on SMN stuff:

They are not the same. Tikki, from SMN LV30~35 perpetuation cost for Carby is 4 and Fenrir is 5. At 36, they're the same at 5. from 37~44, carby at 5 and Fenrir at 6.
Perhaps something similar to this effect is happening. If you both are the same level though or they are higher level then that may throw out this theory.

[SharMarali]

I'm 75... Truthfully I'm not 100% sure that she was also 75, because although I've done a handful of things w/her, she's always /anon. I THINK she's 75. I know she's at LEAST 73, since she uses a dalmatica.

[tazirai]

I'm sorry to say this but your friend is a witch.


what he said.. shes from the far east....>.>　

[Macht]

Well then if she wasn't 75 at the time then I would think it possible for a difference there. Could be at like 73 or 74 being that 1 level were Shiva and Ifrit Perpetuation Cost is different. Outside of that I'm not sure of anything else, with maybe the gear causing such an effect.

Well with the exception of possibly being a slight chance that the 'refresh' on the dalmatica may not be returning an exact 1 MP/Tick but something of maybe 1.4 and with the Refresh spell being added to it causing it to round it up get an extra MP/Tick?

Theory of that is coming from a recent test that was showing -% damage not appearing to be exactly accurate (with for an odd exception of the Earth Staff). Again draws back to maybe an intentional effect in the gear or the gear being effected by a still unknown control.

[silentsteel]

Well with the exception of possibly being a slight chance that the 'refresh' on the dalmatica may not be returning an exact 1 MP/Tick but something of maybe 1.4 and with the Refresh spell being added to it causing it to round it up get an extra MP/Tick? that actually sounds really likely, well, it would depend on the Rdm's enhancing magic too. (at least I Think it's enhancing o.O) the refresh could go up like .1 every 30 lvls of Enhancing magic or something like that and so it could have had a .7 on it while the dalmatica had a .3 on it or something. . . I dont know, I'm just talking to myself. ~_~

[Tirrock]

One of two things. It was either a bug or the other SMN was level 73 exactly (and has an NQ fire staff).

The final boost in avatar costs (not carbuncle/fenrir/spirits) happens at level 74. It goes from 12MP a tic (base, not even including auto refresh) to 13 at level 74.

Source from:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Tirrock/Perpet.jpg
I don't know who created it originally though.

[Finalwhisper]

I may have your answer.... did your friend by any chance use "Astral Flow"? "Astral Flow" will cease the perpetuation cost as long as its in effect...most people havent noticed this because when they use the Blood Pact ability that drains all their mp the Avatar will dissapear that is unless you have a drink on...i discovered this while i was lvling my sMN..after using the ability i lvled up bring my mp to full 100% and i noticed my mp wasnt gettting drained... once the Astral Flow effect wore off the mp resumed its perpetuation~ im not saying this is what it was~ im just saying that this is a possibility of what happened^^

[Gobo]

Astral Flow drops Perpet to 0, so if you have any refresh or Auto-refresh you will start gaining MP back.

[SlizenDize]

It got to be the level difference.

I have never seen bugs like this happend before, it's always just something you didn't think of.