Summoner Advice Plz

[Galaxia]

Hello everyone

Need some advice on Summoner. I have just got to lv 40 and lately all pt's want me to do is Main Heal. I used to DD quite alot was wondering if this is all summoners do? I know when WHM runs out of MP that I need to take over healing but I don't wanna go from 4o to 70 just been main healer! I was wondering if anyone else is having this problem too? Really hope somone can give me some advice for this cause I am getting really fed up of main healing all the time. If this is what it's gonna be like to 70 I might aswell be BLM or WHM.

Thanks for your time.

[kuu]

Unless your pt is especially bad...and I've met some of them that are, you shouldn't be.

Like any pt, the better everyone else performs, the more you can "push".

A smn should be more in line with a rdm style, where you split your duties accordinly to how the flow of the fight is going, and try not to run dry.

You usually fair better with nin tanks, which don't need constant healing, so you're free to do other stuff.

But anyway point is, you do use healing, but don't just do that, it almost always worse to just heal, because it's too limited. Offensive or defensive bps are needed somewhere.

Usually a flow will let you MB once, or bp twice per fight for damage. Levi tail whip is great at your level.

As you go towards higher and up, it's gets harder as your bp damage goes down with lack of new skills. You really need a good pt to use double slap effectively, as MB is way more powerful then anything you have at that point.

at around 55 with meteor...well...you can play with it when you get that high.

[Kalel]

Most parties will have Summoners heal most of the time. They usually never take us to do DD before lvl 70. I am lvl 62 even with a good push, I heal majority of the time for 70% of my parties. But I do always use bloodpacts in between. Its another reason its hard for Summoners to build up their skills because they use whm more than smn.

[Arris]

Hello everyone

Need some advice on Summoner. I have just got to lv 40 and lately all pt's want me to do is Main Heal. I used to DD quite alot was wondering if this is all summoners do? I know when WHM runs out of MP that I need to take over healing but I don't wanna go from 4o to 70 just been main healer! I was wondering if anyone else is having this problem too? Really hope somone can give me some advice for this cause I am getting really fed up of main healing all the time. If this is what it's gonna be like to 70 I might aswell be BLM or WHM.

Thanks for your time.

Finally someone says what I've been thinking. Alot of people tend to misuse any job with mp (other then DRK of course) they assume slap a /WHM sub job and we got ourselfs a main heal. The most misused job of all is SMN. The name itself is the description of the job Summoner. No one seems to want them to summon much, other then some enhancing spells, just main heal. That's why I left SMN at 65 and went and lvl WHM...might as well right? But after lvling WHM some I keep hearing how useless WHM are in pts and how 2 RDMs were better (another misuse of a job my is 70). Sorry to tell you but even after 70+ ppl will still invite you for just main healing. But SMN is a great job to have for stuff such as promys, BCNM/ENM, HNM etc, your main job there is to summon and maybe back up cure.

[kuu]

Most parties will have Summoners heal most of the time. They usually never take us to do DD before lvl 70. I am lvl 62 even with a good push, I heal majority of the time for 70% of my parties. But I do always use bloodpacts in between. Its another reason its hard for Summoners to build up their skills because they use whm more than smn.

There's a good rule of thumb I tend to use in xp pts. The good outweight the bad, the faster you kill, the more likely you are to sustain MP. Not always true as blms that goto 0 in chain 1 is any indication, but using it smartly.

Unless it's a bad pt that is no helping it, I usually test them to see how well they can handle "not" needing defensive backup. Aerial armor is expensive for 100mp. Does your tank need it or not? hmmm... maybe yes maybe no. A good pt usually no. This frees up BP for DD. A good mage support, also means lessening your heal burden. A good Rdm or brd, that converts, doesn't DD, etc, etc, will also backup heal as well. This frees the smn from non stop healing ,allowing BP, MB, and /healing. (I always like trading off 200+ damage for 3 paladin hits) In those situations you're not main healer but rather a split job. semi DD semi healer.

IF you got none of those...and I've had my fill and still get them, of bad rdms... OMG is there a thing with elvvans and there need to wave swords? Can't even convert right...anyway... if you got none of those, you're stuck with 70% throwing cures.

Basically like almost any job, if you got bad team members that can't take up the slack, you gotta tougher time.

[Galaxia]

Finally someone says what I've been thinking. Alot of people tend to misuse any job with mp (other then DRK of course) they assume slap a /WHM sub job and we got ourselfs a main heal. The most misused job of all is SMN. The name itself is the description of the job Summoner. No one seems to want them to summon much, other then some enhancing spells, just main heal. That's why I left SMN at 65 and went and lvl WHM...might as well right? But after lvling WHM some I keep hearing how useless WHM are in pts and how 2 RDMs were better (another misuse of a job my is 70). Sorry to tell you but even after 70+ ppl will still invite you for just main healing. But SMN is a great job to have for stuff such as promys, BCNM/ENM, HNM etc, your main job there is to summon and maybe back up cure.

Lemme hear a AHHHHHHHHHHHHH MEN SISTER lol

This is exactly what I mean. At the moment my damage is pretty good and my MP never gets lower then 200! If the WHM runs out of MP then yea I will take over and heal but ya know when they don't why not make use of them shiny bloodpacts. ALSO NO WAY CAN 2 RDM'S REPLACE A WHM! Ignore them they can't.
Think of it this way
2 RDM's - 1 WHM
thats 2 spaces in pt taken when you could just have 1 space for whm and 1 free!
So why waste that space when ya dont have to?

[Arris]

Lemme hear a AHHHHHHHHHHHHH MEN SISTER lol

This is exactly what I mean. At the moment my damage is pretty good and my MP never gets lower then 200! If the WHM runs out of MP then yea I will take over and heal but ya know when they don't why not make use of them shiny bloodpacts. ALSO NO WAY CAN 2 RDM'S REPLACE A WHM! Ignore them they can't.
Think of it this way
2 RDM's - 1 WHM
thats 2 spaces in pt taken when you could just have 1 space for whm and 1 free!
So why waste that space when ya dont have to?

LOL thank you. I know I've played RDM a bit too. The other RDM usuelly stops refreshing and curing after a few fightes so I have to take over all of that(Super melee time). I understand there are certain situations when I would get two or SMN as a last resort but never continuelly. (That's usually after I've done asked all the WHM"S in my lvl range).

[Galaxia]

*waves arms* You go girl lol
Ok I watched "Brining down the house" too much

Wrong area but whats RDM like I was considering it this morning hehe
any comments?

[Arris]

*waves arms* You go girl lol
Ok I watched "Brining down the house" too much

Wrong area but whats RDM like I was considering it this morning hehe
any comments?

RDM is awesome best of both worlds as far as mage type and damage dealer goes. Especially 40+ once you get refresh your pretty much unstopable ^-^

[Galaxia]

hehe
Yea but I keep been told till 41 the Pt's are kinda slow >.<

[tazirai]

Ill give you some advice, but depending on your personality and reputation, this may work for or against you.
i notice this heal>heal>heal> role mode mainly in NA style PT setups, Not saying JP PT right or wrong, it's just something I notice. The only two common buffs I normally throw a PT is listed below and the reason.

Blink> at the start of a PT and if I have the MP after a chain.

Stoneskin> Makes the monster hate whatever ,melee its going up against that much more, since it cant lower its hate level. I use this alot.

Hastega> When we get links and whatever we are fighting needs to die that much faster, People need cures that much faster, Cast spells that much faster.

Accuracy boost> Great for pld or nin or war tanks that need to be accurate and with it lasting 3 minutes Its a great buff. It also boosts high accuracy jobs like thf and rng, and lower accuracy jobs like drg. I use this alot also..

Evasion down Works well since whatever we need to fight should die as fast as possible, I use this mainly on Things like birds raptors and some "jobbed" bestmen. Not used as much in PT as in BC's.

meteor> Unbeliveable since everyone seems to like light or dark renkei at my level and using a free rat means i can mb along with the blm or rdm.

Carbuncle cure and curaga> its amazing since rat wont generate hate and you can do other duties. Also by rat gaining TP it enhanes his cures that much more. And you wont need to worry abotu aggro, and if your rdm or bard is up to snuff then you will be GAINING mp with rat out most of the PT.

Poison nails at the start of a fight against bestmen or crab eats em up and stacks with dia so they die that much faster.

Carby Tank: If you get an add let the rat tank while your group focuses on something else. If the monster is slow rat will last long and with its Aoe heal it can heal itself.

When you JOIN a PT tell the leader your intentions for your role. dont let them tell you what to do. Whenever I join a NA style PT i immediately tell them . I will pull, backup heal MB and help weaken the baddie. My job is also spotter in case we are fighting in a dangerous locale.
Most leaders will usually go along with what you say, BUT you need to be good at multi-tasking. A summoner cant have tunnel vision and expect to be a good Summoner.
I truly think All summoners need to level rdm to help learn timing with JA's, Magic, Supprt.

If you have a good rep as a Great Summoner, that can go a long way to helping not only get PT's but also not just curing 70- or 90% of the time.

On Ramuh since ive been around awhile I can pretty much dictate my role in a PT, without sounding like a prude. ALso Not all PT's need you soley as SMN/WHM. If you have a BLM or RDM in the PT or even Another SMN, Depending on what you are fighting Sub rdm.

SJ rdm will basically be a Summon/Dispel/Cure monkey. Dispel isnt resisted half as much as your other spells and if you have no RDM in the PT your dispel will help greatly.

ALSO try joining a PT with Beastmasters. Your job will basically be to Close the kill when the beastmasters release their Pets.

Grab the bull by the horn and let PT leaders know that if they need you curing all the time, they are doing something wrong. Which i've found is 90% of why many leaders who want smn to main heal, only want heals.

[Spellbinder]

*claps* Posts like that are why you were my mentor~

[grunion]

as 75smn my advice is, do whatever the party wants you to do. get xp, that's the only reason you're in the pt. if they want you to do something stupid and you can't talk them out of it, just do whatever they want, get your 4k xp and wait for pt to break to get another one.

you'll spend weeks leveling but after that, youll spend months as 70+ smn and all those dumb xp parties will be long forgotten.

[Spellbinder]

as 75smn my advice is, do whatever the party wants you to do. get xp, that's the only reason you're in the pt. if they want you to do something stupid and you can't talk them out of it, just do whatever they want, get your 4k xp and wait for pt to break to get another one.

you'll spend weeks leveling but after that, youll spend months as 70+ smn and all those dumb xp parties will be long forgotten.

Do whatever they want you to? If that's the case then go make a Whitemage, because more than likely they'll only want you for healing unless you lay down the law for them to know otherwise. People play Summoners to summon, and if a party can't handle that, then you probably have no business teaming with them. I would go on but, my senpai worded it so beautifully, there's no need to post further.... *points up to tazirai's post*

[silentsteel]

Grab the bull by the horn and let PT leaders know that if they need you curing all the time, they are doing something wrong. Which i've found is 90% of why many leaders who want smn to main heal, only want heals.

heh, good advice.

Something to prevent this though, is to make your own PT's. I've made about half of my Pt's as whm & was glad for it, and I bet the smn's I invited were too. :thumbsup:

[grunion]

Do whatever they want you to? If that's the case then go make a Whitemage, because more than likely they'll only want you for healing unless you lay down the law for them to know otherwise. People play Summoners to summon, and if a party can't handle that, then you probably have no business teaming with them. I would go on but, my senpai worded it so beautifully, there's no need to post further.... *points up to tazirai's post*

read my post again. you'll spend a few weeks leveling, then months (or perhaps years) as 70+ smn. it's more important to get the XP than create arguments with your party leader or pass up opportunities to get XP because you insist on doing your job correctly. the point of the XP party (for most people i think) is to get XP, not to have fun doing aerial armor or whatever over and over.

if having fun in the XP party is more important than actually getting XP, then you should ignore my advice. it's just my opinion, nothing more.

[tazirai]

read my post again. you'll spend a few weeks leveling, then months (or perhaps years) as 70+ smn. it's more important to get the XP than create arguments with your party leader or pass up opportunities to get XP because you insist on doing your job correctly. the point of the XP party (for most people i think) is to get XP, not to have fun doing aerial armor or whatever over and over.

if having fun in the XP party is more important than actually getting XP, then you should ignore my advice. it's just my opinion, nothing more.

I want to agree with you but I cant. Heres why, An exp PT isnt simply for you to get EXP. Its to learn your job and the abilities that go along with them as you grow stronger. Pt's can be fun and not simply all about business. I dont want a Summoner to join me in a ENM or BCNM or mission Fight if all they can do is heal, or Aerial armor. A GOOD Summoner will eb able to do many things not simply get exp.

Do you know any summoners that would make excellent pullers? Me!!
A summoner pullign has advantages that other jobs dont, Sneak, Invisi, elementals, Aggro control, aquaveil, etc. But a Summoner that only knows to heal because they want 4k exp, will suck. Kiting is also something a Summoner is good at. Ill take one for the team and get aggro to make sure we dont get wiped with kiting.

The reason so many people suck at playing at higher levels is that they dont have experience , just experience points.

[silentsteel]

Do you know any summoners that would make excellent pullers? Me!!
A summoner pullign has advantages that other jobs dont, Sneak, Invisi, elementals, Aggro control, aquaveil, etc. But a Summoner that only knows to heal because they want 4k exp, will suck. Kiting is also something a Summoner is good at. Ill take one for the team and get aggro to make sure we dont get wiped with kiting.


heh, I've pulled & kited stuff already & I'm only lvl 19. Showed that pt right, keeping them alive. . . yeesh & they still got mad at me. ~_~

[Arris]

I want to agree with you but I cant. Heres why, An exp PT isnt simply for you to get EXP. Its to learn your job and the abilities that go along with them as you grow stronger. Pt's can be fun and not simply all about business. I dont want a Summoner to join me in a ENM or BCNM or mission Fight if all they can do is heal, or Aerial armor. A GOOD Summoner will eb able to do many things not simply get exp.

Do you know any summoners that would make excellent pullers? Me!!
A summoner pullign has advantages that other jobs dont, Sneak, Invisi, elementals, Aggro control, aquaveil, etc. But a Summoner that only knows to heal because they want 4k exp, will suck. Kiting is also something a Summoner is good at. Ill take one for the team and get aggro to make sure we dont get wiped with kiting.

The reason so many people suck at playing at higher levels is that they dont have experience , just experience points.

I think I love you <3~!:love:
Can you come play on my server?

Double Post Edited:
Ill give you some advice, but depending on your personality and reputation, this may work for or against you.
i notice this heal>heal>heal> role mode mainly in NA style PT setups, Not saying JP PT right or wrong, it's just something I notice. The only two common buffs I normally throw a PT is listed below and the reason.


yeah JP PT tend to use SMN, WHM, RDMs as they were intended to. Like Tazirai was saying (IN THE BOLD).

[kuu]

I think I love you <3~!:love:
Can you come play on my server?

Double Post Edited:


yeah JP PT tend to use SMN, WHM, RDMs as they were intended to. Like Tazirai was saying (IN THE BOLD).

Sorta, if you need a whm, then yes, if not

smn, rdm, blm is the ideal for nin tanks.

Big booms, fast pulls, and quick kills makes it easy for a nin to tank.

And 70% of pts that want a smn to only heal would only hope to get 4k an hour...it would be more like 2.5k if they're not picking up slack enough for the smn to do other things.

[Arris]

Sorta, if you need a whm, then yes, if not

smn, rdm, blm is the ideal for nin tanks.

Big booms, fast pulls, and quick kills makes it easy for a nin to tank.

And 70% of pts that want a smn to only heal would only hope to get 4k an hour...it would be more like 2.5k if they're not picking up slack enough for the smn to do other things.

Actually I find it doesn't matter really who's main heal for exp/hr, fast pulls and fast kills even with pld or nin tank.I've been in alot of speed kill parties with NIN tank and PLD playing either as WHM or RDM. Fact of the matter a WHM cure 1,2, or 3 will cure for more. The whole point of WHM is to cure, but since nobody seems to want WHM as main cure should WHM just nuke? Or better yet sub some DD job and melee. Yes MP does sometimes effect the rate of which mobs is killed, so MP wise wouldn't it be better for WHM to cure 2 or RDM/SMN to cure 2? Even with stat boosting equips/foods I still really wouldn't want to main cure as SMN or RDM.

[kuu]

Actually I find it doesn't matter really who's main heal for exp/hr, fast pulls and fast kills even with pld or nin tank.I've been in alot of speed kill parties with NIN tank and PLD playing either as WHM or RDM. Fact of the matter a WHM cure 1,2, or 3 will cure for more. The whole point of WHM is to cure, but since nobody seems to want WHM as main cure should WHM just nuke? Or better yet sub some DD job and melee. Yes MP does sometimes effect the rate of which mobs is killed, so MP wise wouldn't it be better for WHM to cure 2 or RDM/SMN to cure 2? Even with stat boosting equips/foods I still really wouldn't want to main cure as SMN or RDM.

How the the whm cure for more? There's a cure cap on all spells. They have more spells, like regen 2 and 3 and cure 4, but in terms of pure healing, it's equal.

A smn with a light staff or without will cure just the same as a whm. The only excuse you can make is if they use a medicine ring, or other whm only cure+ like a noble.

NO a whm isn't there to just cure. Whm take up the slack of other "holes" just like any other job but that's another thread.

Smn DD does matter. A MB of 240 or more means 240 or more faster kill. Most MBs can do that range per fight. If the monster is harder then that, and another Timer is ready, you will push it to 400 DD. Pre 60 of course, IV spells can do heck of a more damage.

Defensive buffs is self-explanatory.

In a fight Everything matters. Your kidding yourself if just healing and curing will net you easy 4k. If you can get 4k, then you can get 5k etc. That's the exact situation why you take up the slack of bad pt members. "I'm only here to refresh and dispel, it doesn't matter anyway" Will mean a bad rdm who rarely converts, won't MB and will be like fighting with 5.2 members.

Your line of thought is exactly what this thread is oppose to, people who sit back, and do the minium, not the maxium. Everyone expecting someone else to pick up the slack. If the whole PT does it, then you got a sterotypical bad pt.

[Tirrock]

Okay... I had a very long ranting post, but I figured I'd save everybody the pain of reading worthless ranting and a very negative post and just write this instead.

I agree with a bit of many things said, to a point. Like many things, it's situational.

Grunion has a point that you should do what the party expects. They don't want you to play around at the cost of their exp. However, if they expect you to cure only, they're probably not right. Without a WHM in the party, you can still do blood pacts almost every time they're up. Also, you have to have enough knowledge about your job to be able to tell if they're right or not. If they're wanting you to use rolling thunder and crimson howl all the time... Listen to that alarm going off in the back of your head saying that something isn't right here.

And, like Kuu said, it's important to weigh the benefits of the blood pacts vs what else you can do. You must consider what each blood pact will do for the party that's helpful. If only one person would get benefit from Aerial Armor (like the tank keeps hate well, or all the melees are subbing NIN), then it's pretty pointless to use it. If the monster has no AoE and the tank keeps hate...it's fairly useless to earthen ward them unless they're a NIN. Also have to weigh in if a damaging blood pact would end the fight and save more MP/save the exp chain than the defensive blood pacts. Same thing goes with ecliptic howl/growl, and really...every single blood pact you have.

For summoners needing to learn how to do certain skills... This I disagree on. Really, there aren't that many skills that can't be easily explained by anybody that knows them (avatar pulling). Others only take a bit of common sense/basic knowledge of the job. Hopefully anybody leveling SMN has both. (Unfortunately, I've seen many new SMNs that hit level 75 without either...)

Edit:
Oh right, I forgot to do my obligitory correcting of Kuu. How could I forget that?

Cures have a soft cap, not a set-in-stone-you'll-never-pass-this-cap. My cure III as WHM does more than my cure III as SMN. Not much. But it's a difference. The real advantage of a WHM main healer over a SMN main healer, at least at high levels, is that WHM can cure V/regen III and rest, instead of spamming cure IIIs.

[SharMarali]

Heh...

I don't even know where to begin or what to say.

I feel very sorry for anyone who doesn't have fun in an exp PT. I can't even begin to imagine raising a job to 75, or for that matter even to 50, that I don't enjoy playing. There are instances when it's necessary to raise a job to 37 that you don't really care for (for example, I raised NIN to 37 and absolutely loathed every moment of it) - But you get to a point where those levels come further and further apart and the level grind can take over and numb your mind pretty quick if you don't love what you're doing.

I can't even imagine having taken SMN or RDM or even WAR to the level I took it to if I hadn't loved it. Are there PTs where I don't have fun? Sure. Is that the standard for me? Nope. If I'm CONSISTENTLY not having fun in exp PTs with a particular job, it's time to COMPLETELY re-evaluate why I'm leveling that job and whether I really want to continue. That's why I quit WAR at 62. I realized I hadn't been having fun since about level 58.

FFXI is not a job. It's not a chore. It's not something you HAVE to do. It's something you do for fun. You're paying to do it. If you're not having fun at it, or if you're spending hours and hours and hours and hours not having fun because you think maybe you might have some fun down the road when you're trying to acquire godly equipment for a job you never liked in the first place...

Well, then I feel sorry for you.

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and as for the "high level noob" phenomenon, as I like to refer to it...

Tazarai is correct. The reason we see so many 70+ players who don't know how to play their jobs is because they have experience points, not experience. I've never heard that better said.

I think a big part of this, though, is from the mentality that a person needs to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get their job to 75. People have stopped realizing that there are a LOT of things a person can do in the 60's, the 50's, even the 40's and 30's. People are in such a hurry to level up and become "godly" that they don't take the time to smell the roses so to speak, to learn their jobs properly, to see all the nuances and to see the benefits of having THIS job in the PT with THAT job and how they can work together in harmony.

I've LONG frowned upon the concept of PLing an entire PT. OK, there are instances when you're raising a job only as a SJ and you don't particularly care whether you learn it or not, I understand that. But having someone PL an entire PT, to me, is just taking the cheap and easy way out. This is ANOTHER part of the problem for me. Suddenly, all these people are reaching level 40 and they can't really be PLed so easily anymore. Now the WHMs have to learn MP conservation and the BLMs have to learn hate management, the NINs have to learn how to tank, the SAMs have to learn how to make sure they have enough TP for a SC even though they're going free every other time. The list goes on. These are ALL things people should begin learning in Valkurm and continue learning through Qufim and Kazham and should be fairly ADEPT at by the time they reach 40. Instead, people are just learning it for the first time when they reach the 40's because they were PL'd 1-39. Now they have to spend the next 20 levels learning what in the world they're doing, because they didn't spend the last 20 levels doing it. So you essentially have massive groups of people who don't have a CLUE how to REALLY work together until they're level 60.

Anyway.. My PL rant is pretty much irrelevant to the topic at hand.

In conclusion, you should cooperate with your PT but you should also do what you feel is fun and what you feel is the correct thing to do. You shouldn't be too proud to cure, but you shouldn't be afraid to summon. A true summoner listens to their heart, not their ego or their fears.

[grunion]

the point of my post wasn't that you should accept not having fun in EVERY xp party. my point was simply that when you get invited by someone that asks you to play your job in a way you don't want to, rather than arguing or disbanding, just go with the flow, get a little xp, and hope your next party is better. i'm sorry i wasn't clear because it seems several people have misinferred what i said.

[tazirai]

the point of my post wasn't that you should accept not having fun in EVERY xp party. my point was simply that when you get invited by someone that asks you to play your job in a way you don't want to, rather than arguing or disbanding, just go with the flow, get a little xp, and hope your next party is better. i'm sorry i wasn't clear because it seems several people have misinferred what i said.

I Know i understood you correctly,cant speak for anyone else, but The thing is Grunion,People arent mindless.
Ive joined PT's for mission BC's where I wanted to go as one job,but the PT required another. if I could id do everything as a Summoner,But I cant.
But that doesnt mean I cant offer input.
If you are a skilled player let your PT know, tell them you can do other things.
To me its not okay to just let the exp flow and hope for better in another PT.

The Reason:Complacency, you'll get used to hoping for a better PT, then another better PT, and so forth. You can add input in a way that isnt argumentative and disrepectful. if you have a leader that wont listen then you shouldnt be in that PT.
its been my experience that if i send a tell to a leader privately and tell them what I can do, Im Usually ableto do it especially if im showing skill at it.

Complacency (Thanks for the offer but i'll have to pass)

[grunion]

i never said you shouldn't try to do your job the way you want to. i was just responding to the original poster I know when WHM runs out of MP that I need to take over healing but I don't wanna go from 4o to 70 just been main healer! that when necessary just take the XP and accept being a healer.

[tazirai]

that when necessary just take the XP and accept being a healer.


/agree^^