Proposal: FFXI Graphic Update Colaberation

[Hyrist]

Sence the CoP Releace, new and more exciting looking armor has become releaced through out the game, leaving the oldies but goldies looking, well... bland.

There also becomes the issue of repition in armor sets. By later levels, most mages wear a Errant Set, Optical Hat and Scorpion Harnesses are frequent sights in Jueno.

So it is not suprising when it comes to my attention that many of the PC users have come into the habit of wanting to 'tweak' their game in terms of graphics. The poor people who play PS2 who cant share our tweaking abilities are being left out. Though it did give me an idea.

What if we, the "Dreams in Vana'diel" Community, created a set of edited skin graphics to revamp some of the older-more common-armor and weapons, pack it up in a nice little file with a display, and propose it to SE? The worst they can do is refuse it.

Each of us can work together and submit peices to be voted upon to send to SE. Once we are satasfied with our results, one of us (Determined later) will send the proposal to SE with the package of all the work done for them, and we can let thier development team make their own decissions.


After a few recomendations I'll post a detailed list of what we would like to get re-done, but for now here's some of my ideas.

List of graphics to be redone.

Artifect Armor customised to Race.
Avatars (Amadaun mind if we include yours in the package?)
Optical Hat Redux (Maybe by race?)
Scorpion Harness Redux (same as above)
Brigidine Armor by race (Enough of the chess set bodies...)
Wise Set (IMO the worst looking JSE set ever...)
Haubergeon (Face it, every melee that can has a Hauby)

Are you guys intrested in doing this? And if so do you have any more sugestions? I would like this to be a rather large undertaking in our attempts to make this game more enjoyable for all, as well as ourselves. Hopefully there are people who are of like mind ^^

[ruffrydasean]

Sounds cool... but will SE ever accept such things. ?

[Hyrist]

We wont know untill we try.

Worst case senerio, the PC community will have a nice little graphics update available on the web.

[Amadaun]

Well, I wouldn't mind being a part of a package like this, but I think it would be a really bad idea to send this to SE. Technically, according to the user agreement:

To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not:
(a) Modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software

So, technically the .dat adjustments that we're doing is illegal, and so, if we sent the package to SE, it would be a little like saying: "We sell gil. Would you like to buy some?"

Now, I hate raining on everyone's parade like this, and I think that doing a giant mod like this is wonderful, but if we went and shoved it in SE's face, they'd have to do something about it, and I don't think it would be pleasant for us. :cry:

[Hyrist]

No military logic in the gaming community eh?

Very well then, how about just for us? I know alot of people who swap out and change music files. Weither or not SE approves of it, the logic of this is, if the graphics of the game were a little more exciting, people would enjoy it more.

Celes: "You don't like the way the world is? Do somthing about it!"

SE dosent show any intention of putting the work into revamping these graphics to make them more intresting, so I say lets do it ourselves. A nice complentry graphics mod would really make things more diverse and enjoyable in FFXI, and we all seem to be of the same mind in our own little ways.

Maybe later on I'll send a "Theortical Question" to the POL help desk to see if making a submission would get anyone in trouble.

[Nicker]

If it matters , I think the textures on the haubergeon are looking a little dated compared to most the other armor >< for such a great piece of armor I think it at least deserves a little touch up, so perhaps you should add that to the list <_<

[Monet]

Here's my take on the situation, since I'm an established member in the AF modding community :P

The game is great. Alot of people put alot of effort into creating the original everything for the game. Unfortunately, as time goes by, with thousands of people playing a never ending game, flaws will be found and ideas revealed. Had noone ever wanted to make their current game different/better, we'd be playing FFXI with 8-bit pixelated wondrosities. I find nothing wrong with changing the graphics of the game, regardless of what the EULA says. It does NOTHING to change gameplay, takes nothing away from other players, and has no added advantage besides giving you the "look" that you want.

I will take an active effort in your quest. I will create more *ahem* modest items of equipment for submission based on requests. And, if and when it comes down to it, I will volunteer to be the submitter, should we find it ideal to take it further than posting for others to download.

[Hyrist]

Glad to have you aboard Monet. Your skills will be most needed for some of the ideas I have in mind.

[Lakario]

I'd just like to add that the clause of the software agreement applies to the compiled software itself and not so much the resources loaded by said software. I highly doubt that replacing dat files is, in any way, a breach of contract.

[Amadaun]

Don't count me out just yet^^ I'd love to be part of a project like this.

(Sorry if it seemed like I was turning down the opportunity...I've just been extra careful about copyright stuff ever since Deviantart threatened to ban my account just for displaying models in my gallery. ; ; )

I've been working on a redo of the lizard armor set so that it actually looks like it came from a lizard, rather than some poor jester or something. Not an attractive set, persay, but a very functional, sturdy-looking one. I'll upload some screenshots of it once the gloves are done. I'm planning something similar for some of the other "hide" armors.

But yeah, asking about it would certainly put my mind at ease.

[Yossar]

Sounds great. I'll help in whatever way I can. I'm a firm believer that Elvaan Females need more gear to accentuate their leggy super model physique.

[Ghostraven]

you have to consider two things. SE even acce[ting this proposal means they are encouraging people to use 3rd party programs to edit and view FFXI files... something they will NEVER do, since they are banning people just for using windower.

another thing to remember is the reason they don't have so many different looking armor sets is because they want the game to be playable on 56k AND on ps2 hardware with as little lag possible. Most model types to display = more memory used on ps2 (what is it like 64mb of video ram in the ps2?)

But good luck with this. I already edited most of the "UGLY" sound effects in the game for myself, so I support you in trying to liven up the game.

[Hyrist]

another thing to remember is the reason they don't have so many different looking armor sets is because they want the game to be playable on 56k AND on ps2 hardware with as little lag possible. Most model types to display = more memory used on ps2 (what is it like 64mb of video ram in the ps2?)


So you know, cause most dont.

For every peice of equipment, for every race and gender, there is both a model and skin for it. Its all contained in the .dat file and folder. Weither or not they all look the same or they are all unique and differnt for race and gender. It takes an insiginifigant amount of memory to have a more detailed skin file. As for loading times the customization in equipment does not increese this at all.

The only thing SE did actually save on, was development time and cost of paying artist to make more customized designs. Nothing more. It borderlines sheer lazyness on how some of the armor and weapon peices in this game lack uniqueness and detail to them. Especially Artifact sets between gender and races.

For instance, you try telling the differance between a femae and male tarus in the same AF, or any armor peice for that matter. A minor color change in the armor alone would have sufficed. And it would not have costed a bit of extra information, because the skin files are all differnt.

By no means am I trying to put you down Ghost, just wanted to let you know that file size here is a non-issue.

[Tygleris]

Perhaps they all look the same between races because.... they were meant to be the same between races?

Don't get me wrong. I fully support your idea to get a collab of updated armor sets just for the sake of giving some new, interesting visuals to ffxi, but I've read that you have a problem with the AF looking the same for each race many times, and I just don't see what the problem is.

The AFs are supposed to be the same for each race, as nearly every other armor set is. There seems no logical reason to make it different, since it's not trying to give indeviduality to each race, but trying to give something unique to each job. AF is all about showing off the job, not trying to show pride for your race at the same time.

[Hyrist]

My approach is from a logical standpoint.

There is no one-size-fits-all equipment. Sorry but there is no way a Galka is going to put on the boots from a Taru. Also, we have to remember that these armor are "Artifacts" which means they come form a time when the 5 races were NOT co-operative. That means there was no grand trades between nations. Anyone who were to make a set of armor would have to look localy. Thus the variations in craft, and look. This consitderation is actually the basis for most of my AF renditions. You will notice a similar trend going on for each race that reflects both their race and nationality of their race's origen.

Give it time, you may still think my idea on this is much better than creating a Uniformed outlook on every armor in the game.

[Yossar]

I highly doubt that S-E would change it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done for the PC players, anyway. Ever since this section of ffxionline.com was created it has grown, grabbing more and more skin editors. We should pool all of our talents and create something grand.

[Pai Pai Master]

I highly disagree with trying to "present" this to Square Enix. You could get yourselves, and many others, in a lot of trouble.

However, if kept on the downlow, it's a great idea. I'd love to see it in action, so good luck!

[ruffrydasean]

I'd try it out if you guys did it ^^... good luck (o.o)b

[Xhaztol]

I'd try it too. I'll also get onboard, that is, if we could do the project over a different medium than these forums, such as AIM or something, and I could be taught how to use the programs involved.

[Hyrist]

I highly disagree with trying to "present" this to Square Enix. You could get yourselves, and many others, in a lot of trouble.

However, if kept on the downlow, it's a great idea. I'd love to see it in action, so good luck!

I'll still ask the question, but I am beginning to agree with the public opinion here. What we could do is create the whole project in a Zip File along with a comprehensive guide how to upload it both to PC and PS2's HDD using your PC. That will satasfy my personal desire to make it available to as many as possible.

[Monet]

If we get a substantial amount of remakes and present our ideas, SE won't care. The only thing questionable to me is whether they'll use the ideas or not. I highly doubt that they would take action against anyone, and if they did -or wanted to- the submission can easily be made anonymous. Thats why I volunteered. I think we have a great idea going. We just need to organize a workforce and give everyone a piece to work on, along with an area where we can colaborate ideas for those pieces. If we are going to take this seriously, we can't be working from forums on Online.

[Chio]

Does anyone fail to see that this game was originally released on the PS2? Everything about this game was more or less geared for that release. Not to mention FFXI is what? 3 going on 4 years now? Kinda old by game standards, no?

Why spend time and effort updating old stuff when you could be busy adding new content ESPECIALLY when there are people who are starting to have multiple LV 75 jobs. Probably have done all the quests/missions and all that is left is trying to get a better advantage to tag that HMN some where.

More so is the fact that if they had to load more graphics into the game...man...I don't even want to think about lag time. Its hard enough with the palette they have now. It would slow things down even more. Everyone wants their shiney Dragoon armor in different colors, I want to walk in to Jueno without 5fps while everyone's "boring" armor is loading.

[Tygleris]

Except it come out for PC first. I dunno about the release dates in Japan, but the game came out for PC 5 months before PS2 in the US, and I dont' see any reasoning that would have them release it on PS2 first in Japan and then PC first in US.

Also, just because some people have their multiple 75 jobs doesn't mean other people are never going to go back down to the low levels to try out a new job. I mean why would I ever want to go try out SMN when I have jobs that are higher leveled, that's just ludicrous.

And finally, he's not talking about better, more detailed graphics. He means new updated .dats to replace the current ones. There won't be more files, just different ones, that way the sucky files like scale male and lizard armor will still be interesting to look at when we have our shiny AF armors in our moghouses that we could be looking at.

Now finally, to Hyrist.

Don't get me wrong. I sorta gave off the wrong idea when I said what I did. I am all for having armors more customized to race, I'm just saying I don't think that was the intention. As to your story, the artifact armors weren't just "made" for the people of the job. It's legendary armor made by a particular smith. If we went by logic, there would only be one set of AF armor for each job. Anyways, the various pieces all have different stories behind them. They aren't just things manufactured in the different nations, they are crafted by the specific artison so he would naturally make things the same.

[Caspian]

PS2 first in Japan.
Like hyrist said, wouldnt take any longer to load b/c the files would be pretty close to the same size and you wouldnt be loading any more files than you would otherwise. There's a separate .dat for every race and gender alrdy. There's 8 .dats for every lizard jerkin. The female's boobs arent part of the body that the clothing goes over. Its written in that a female uses the .dat that has boobs alrdy on it.

[Pai Pai Master]

Final Fantasy XI is a Playstation 2 game. What you play on the PC is a port. It was originally intended to look, feel and play exactly like the Playstation 2 version it was made from, although that may change if Square Enix decides to update the PC version to fit better with the Xbox360's quality.

It was released in Japan for the Playstation 2 on March 16th, 2002. A PC release later followed that November. Although the US releases are irrelevant to Chio's point, the game was released first on PC in North America because of Sony's shoddy decision-making and support for their own HDD peripheral, now defunct because of that same poor support from Sony. Simply because North America received the PC version of the game first does not mean that people should blatantly disregard that it is in fact a Playstation 2 game which can and will be limited by the PS2's now dated technology.

I'm not certain what repurcussions would follow after loading this updated package of data onto a PS2 system's Hard Drive, but it would be wise to take into consideration both the limited hard drive space of the PS2 and the limited processing memory. The game already suffers from a rather low framerate when one is simply walking around Jeuno. Would it really be wise to attempt to push it further with newer, more detailed models?

[Hyrist]

Would it really be wise to attempt to push it further with newer, more detailed models?

We can test that for ouselves before we make such a releace. If no one else is willing to try, My PS2 contains a HDD and FFXI on it, my fiance plays on that when I am on the computer. I'm more than willing to aplha/beta test the changes in the game to make sure it is safe for use.

I should say that my computer actually has less preforamnce cappiblity than my PS2 and has been runing edits fine for a good time now. Asside from Sony's Personal Hard Drive format, the FFXI file system for PS2 and PC are identicle. I dont forsee any difficulty by actually making the swaps, asside from the innial problem of actually getting the files loaded in. We do have a guide posted about that already in these forums, yes?

They aren't just things manufactured in the different nations, they are crafted by the specific artison so he would naturally make things the same.

Pardon me for taking the devils advocate here:

Although it would be nice to say that there was one artisin that make each AF equipment, it dosent coinside with the storyline. Out of the peices of AF I have gotten; 1 was repaired from the Artisan's ghost, 2 were given to me by a ghost who protrayed no relation to the artisin other that he wore Full AF. 2 from coffers in vastly differnt locations.

Now one could say that it was all peices of the same armor set, spread throught the world through time. Except for the actual glove quest which gives evidence to the contrary.

The Galka that gives the quest speaks of a master armor, who was rumored to make Artifact Gloves for all the jobs. No mention of any other peice of armor being created by this master armorer are made in any quest. This man just made the gloves.

Furthermore, the Testominies which drop off beastmen seem to dictate that there was a former socidty which gave reconition to people of a certain job who excelled. This leads me to beleive that in more aincent times, things like AF were more common equipment, to have to receive a certificate of reconision amoung their peers.

This sort of thing encouranges the logic in beleiving that there was more than one artisin of Artifact Armor. Which in turn would encourage the idea that differnt artisins would cater to their own race via their own style.

It may very well be that there was only one set of AF per job in the storyline, but I would like to beleive that it was more common in the past, as how I have perceived the evidence in the research I have done. Either or, I still think it would be a good thing to create a little extra unique flare in the AF's per race. It will help breath new life into the game. And thank you for the support. ^^

[Tygleris]

>.> Again, I wasn't specific enough. I've only been through a few AF quests with only one job so I don't know everything, but what I mean to say is... those AF gloves are all made by the same armor smith. He isn't going to build them differently because he is not suddenly brought up like a San D'orian when making an elvaan pair of gloves, and then suddenly changes to being a Windurstian when he makes a pair of gloves for a mithra. The indevidual pieces of such go to different craftsmen, but the same man/woman makes all the warrior's gloves so he would probably not deviate from the build, other than to make it fit on each races hands comfortably.

Though there could always be someone who takes building armor as more of an art form, and has traveled a lot, who would make each piece different to try and reflect the significance of their nationality... but that works against my entire point, so I'll conveniently not mention that...

[Alucath]

I'll still ask the question, but I am beginning to agree with the public opinion here. What we could do is create the whole project in a Zip File along with a comprehensive guide how to upload it both to PC and PS2's HDD using your PC. That will satasfy my personal desire to make it available to as many as possible.

This is a lot better, for me, because I personally enjoy the current AF set especially. If suddenly, they changed them at all (much less changed them depending on the race) I would be rather distressed. Sorry, even if you enjoy it, I would feel like an outside group is trying to customize my territory for them. Oh well :o. Good luck on your endeavors, however.

[Hyrist]

Well the sumission would be to sugest an optional change, like somthing you could download from the PoL Viewer from the wallpapper. Section or somthing. That was my idea from the start anyways.

Anways. I talke dto a GM about it in the middle of a GM call late yesterday night / early this morning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/jiroochan007/GMtalk.jpg

See for yourself what he had to say. I'll be asking the help desk sometime today or tomarrow.

[Monet]

narc >.>


lmao...j/k...

[Yossar]

PS2 version does not use the same file system (.dat files and such) as the PC version does. You cannot make an edit for PS2. No ifs ands buts about it.

As for loading times, nothing changes. The DX3 files embedded in the .DATs are all the same size regardless of what design you do.

You can have fun and create some armor edits, but that's it. I wouldn't even submit the idea to S-E.

[Hyrist]

PS2 version does not use the same file system (.dat files and such) as the PC version does. You cannot make an edit for PS2. No ifs ands buts about it.

Actually, its been done, and there's even a guide on these forums to show you how to do it. In this very section, check the history I stumbeled upon it earlier this week.

[Tan'o]

PS2 version does not use the same file system (.dat files and such) as the PC version does. You cannot make an edit for PS2. No ifs ands buts about it.

As for loading times, nothing changes. The DX3 files embedded in the .DATs are all the same size regardless of what design you do.

You can have fun and create some armor edits, but that's it. I wouldn't even submit the idea to S-E.

All you have to do is slave the PS2 hard drive to your computer and then do some file type changing magic.

Edit: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47809

There you are.

[Yossar]

Ahhh IC. I guess I never really looked into it. Guess I get to play around with my PS2 version now. >.>

[Tatha-Kitten]

i wonder whatever happened to this....

[dabadking]

woah....talk about reviving an old thread O.o ... most likely S-E got their panties in a ruffle if they posed the question to them, so they stopped? .. dunno.

[Nicolette]

Necro'd!

On ffximc theres a updated goblin set, part of an ambitious and most likely abandoned retexturing of all the mobs... but bit by bit we seem to be creating what this post wanted, a large collection of high quality mods over time. The problem would be in making sure we standardize what mod replaces what original file, making sure none of them have unfortunate artifacts, and that theyre all at least as good a quality as SE's originals.


I use the black and red war chocobo all the time for instance. but his footstep effects just make blocks in the sand.

[Kittyneko]

We wont know untill we try.

Worst case senerio, the PC community will have a nice little graphics update available on the web.

Aye.





Lol always wanted to say "aye."

[Imkindalost]

Hmmm wow this IS an old topic lol, almost a year its been dead... It wasnt a bad idea though, even though the most SE would do if they DID accept it is make a link to a download of the files probably... Which, we can easily do here on these fine forums.

[PotentPotables]

After seeing the mod communtiy slowly evolve over the years, Ive come to the conclusion that this is actually pointless.

I recind my first response.

Would it honestly matter to you if your AF was hi-res now? No, because if you're modding or DLing other's Mods, you want something different.

The same gear with a coat of Armor-All isn't going to make that big of an impact, especially considering the amount of time it takes to make a Hi-Res Model.

Besides, then you'd just get more LJ shouts about Lag... screw that...