Summoner Skillchain 70+

[Omniblast]

Does anyone know a site that has a chart or know of any of the blood pacts (70) can be chain with each other? I've been wondering about that for a while and I have found no evidence of such anywhere. If you know please post here so we can discuss.

[Icemage]

There is nothing to discuss. None of the 70BPs have any skillchain properties whatsoever (which is why they don't show up on any skillchain charts). They neither form nor interrupt skillchains (similar to Moonlight, Spirit Taker, Spirits Within, etc.)


Icemage

[Taskmage]

The level 70 blood pacts, and Fenrir's level 65 blood pact has not been found to link in the level one skill chains yet, and will most likely link in the level two or three skill chains)...

[RangerDade]

they dont have any skillchain properities or they would interupt skillchains which they dont

[SlizenDize]

Thus is why I want that implented.
I mean common they do about same dmg as many other melee WS but we cannot MB nor SC and yet it cost hella lots of MP >< (Yes many melee players can do close to 1ws/min)

[kuu]

Err.. do you know how powerful lvl 70 BPs are....

They didn't keep it in for the consequences it'll have in HNM fights.

And if you want MB, IV spells is already gotten at 60, which you can't really give them V spells...that's cheap.

[Tirrock]

Well... while I would like to be able to skill chain my most powerful attacks, I think it'd push SMN over the edge and make them prime targets for another nerf.

I vote for adding avatar melee damage. Really, it's pretty pitiful sometimes.

[kuu]

Well... while I would like to be able to skill chain my most powerful attacks, I think it'd push SMN over the edge and make them prime targets for another nerf.

I vote for adding avatar melee damage. Really, it's pretty pitiful sometimes.

Only if you miss.

What do you expect for free hate? If they had powers equal to that of a player, it would be prime nerf territory.

The draw back of pets has always been that they can not wear equipment to boast their natural stats.

If I could gave garuda or sushi for her pre claw or titan steak for his buster, they would be unstopable as a DD army.

[Tirrock]

20 damage a melee hit on exp monsters (not blood pact, melee) is not impressive...or even decent.

You have a point that they'd get nerfed fast if they had powers equal to a damage dealer player... but they don't. Their melee matches a RDM, at best. As for giving them food...that'd be way over the top. I'm not asking for them to do 100 damage a hit, or to hit ITs 98% of the time... I'm asking for them to just not suck on meleeing on things that are higher than DC.

Maybe our differences come from us each thinking about different level monsters? I wasn't clear on what I said before. Avatar melee damage is great on low level things. It's pretty nice on EPs... Decent on DCs. But after that it shoots down very fast. I'd just like to see keeping the avatar out on exp fights not to be a complete waste of MP.

Edit: Oh, I was wrong. Our differences in opinion come from one of us talking about blood pacts and the other one talking about melee.

[kuu]

20 damage a melee hit on exp monsters (not blood pact, melee) is not impressive...or even decent.

You have a point that they'd get nerfed fast if they had powers equal to a damage dealer player... but they don't. Their melee matches a RDM, at best. As for giving them food...that'd be way over the top. I'm not asking for them to do 100 damage a hit, or to hit ITs 98% of the time... I'm asking for them to just not suck on meleeing on things that are higher than DC.

Maybe our differences come from us each thinking about different level monsters? I wasn't clear on what I said before. Avatar melee damage is great on low level things. It's pretty nice on EPs... Decent on DCs. But after that it shoots down very fast. I'd just like to see keeping the avatar out on exp fights not to be a complete waste of MP.

Where are you getting 20damage from???

Titan does 600+ easily on IT, and levi just as much.

Garuda and fenrir is more tricky, but with various debuffs of eva, and smn af2 and perhaps good smn skill, usually hit for 200-1k .

You're trying to justify something by puting the worse case senerio, which is wrong because a mnk can asuran for 50damage on bones if things crap out.

On em or lower, I've seen garuda pre do 2k, heck a simple double slap can do 700.

[Lmnop]

errr Kuu, you're talking about BPs. Tirrock's talking about standard melee. You know, summon an avatar, and tell it to punch the thing with the name in red repeatedly.

[Tirrock]

20 damage a melee hit on exp monsters (not blood pact, melee) is not impressive...or even decent.

Yeah. I'm not talking about blood pacts at all.

[MMan530]

Haha, reading comprehension > all.

[kuu]

Then he's still wrong.

A rdm with their dinky sword skills are weaker then avatars.

I usually put avatars at around A- in skills, they hit decently often for non equips.

On em usually hits about 50+damage. Their speed is about that of a thf, probably from the low delay.

Oh you can equip an elvaan rdm with a scorp, and DD gear, but that defeats the purpose of you talking about IT.

Heck a rdm would have to use elemental staves which they have no skill in. In every respect, a rdm would be lucky to get 10 damage on xp monster.

Avatars do normal enough damage as pets. Though some people have little gasp of smn tactics. We don't let our avatars melee except to either push damage for chain, or charge up for MB. You do realize certain spells will increase in damage with avatar TP right?

This is begining to sound like half of the other threads, improper use of jobs that eventually want anything and everything.

In any event this isn't about 70+ bps anymore.

[Tirrock]

"Well... while I would like to be able to skill chain my most powerful attacks, I think it'd push SMN over the edge and make them prime targets for another nerf."

YES, I WANT IT ALLLLLLL!

"You have a point that they'd get nerfed fast if they had powers equal to a damage dealer player... but they don't. Their melee matches a RDM, at best. As for giving them food...that'd be way over the top. I'm not asking for them to do 100 damage a hit, or to hit ITs 98% of the time... I'm asking for them to just not suck on meleeing on things that are higher than DC."

All!

Seriously though... You're comparing a RDM with an elemental staff on ITs (never would hit) to avatar melee. Weren't you the one saying "You're trying to justify something by puting the worse case senerio"?

And by me saying that it's a waste of MP to keep an avatar out to melee because of the pitiful damage, doesn't that mean that I realize that it's a waste of MP? Therefore... I don't do it.

By the way; What level 70+ SMN even bothers [Edit: fixed typo on bothers] worrying about avatar TP on anything other than jellies/ghosts (not bones, I mean things like haunts)? To quote you... "improper use of jobs"...

[Second edit: You are right though, this isn't about level 70 blood pacts and being able to skill chain any more. As Icemage said... there's nothing to discuss. It was over by the second post.]

[MMan530]

Yeah, I don't think I understand either. As a RDM, my Joyeuse is the preferred weapon against ITs, and I hit a lot harder than 10. I hit regularly, too. Enspells even do more than 10 damage....

You're right, this isn't about BPs anymore. Tirrock's comment never was. He was saying that SE should buff avatar melee attacks so its not a complete waste of MP to have them out (I assume to avoid the once-a-minute task that SMN often becomes). I think you missed the point of his comment >.>

[kuu]

I really shudder to think of any rdm using a joy in xp pt.

Elemental staves are all but required post 51.

And I don't see how you're hitting that hard on an IT, are you thinking of VT weapons?

At lvl 70 an IT is about 8 lvls above where it's unless you got a stack low of acc and attack, you're not getting much hits in or damage. And rdm are a B in weapons.

I'm not putting a worse case as a normal case. I wouldn't be caught dead XPing with a rdm waving his joy around at that level. Staves are so important at that point, especially if said a rdm that is decked in DD gear as well.

Avatars on the other hand do have a purpose. They do not restrict the smn in many ways except not being able to /heal.

And the only real purpose a good smn would let his avatar melee anyway would be to MB which is effected by TP. So it's not wasting MP to keep it out, rather, put it right back into our IV spell.

Oh your rdm hand, it's just trying to feed tp, and lower your support powers. A rdm fireIII or even thunder III with staves would overshadow a puny joy and still have more MP left over in xp pt.

[MMan530]

A rdm with their dinky sword skills are weaker then avatars.

I don't melee in XP parties. I never said I did. I didn't even bring up sword skills, you did (see above quote). I just said my Joyeuse alone does more than 10 damage to IT mobs (not including added effect from Enspell). You learn these things when you solo as RDM/NIN. Please stop assuming things- read what people write THEN reply. That's how this posting stuff works : )

Heck a rdm would have to use elemental staves which they have no skill in. In every respect, a rdm would be lucky to get 10 damage on xp monster.
I don't know why you said a RDM would melee with an elemental staff that they have no skill in. I was just trying to sort out your analogy. Avatars don't really compare to RDMs at all; what was the validity of your above post? The mere fact that you're comparing avatar melee to a mage class with a weapon they have no skill in only further adds to the necessity to boost avatar melee, imo.

[Tirrock]

I have exped with MMan530 on many occasions. He doesn't melee (well, except for the last fight in our last LS party... where even I, as WHM, was hitting IT golems for 29 damage a shot on that one fight).

Level 70 blood pacts do more damage than IV spells anyway, and you don't have to worry about timing, minus messing up sneak/trick, but that's easy to deal with, to burst it with. Plus level 70 blood pact > rest is more efficent than level 70 blood pact > avatar melees > level 70 blood pact > avatar melees > IV spell, thanks to avatar melee being terrible. Hey, there's that thing I mentioned again, avatar melee sucking and being an MP sink!

[tazirai]

Whoa.../backs out slowly ^^

[LadyPeorth]

Give Avatars their crazy Enspells...I want to see Carbuncle hit a weapon and it take +45 light damage. Still considering the amount of MP to merely keep them in your prescence...you'd figure they have more muscle.

[Omniblast]

My thread's been hijacked into a melee thread T_T.

[Tirrock]

Your thread was over by the second post. >_>a

[Bahamut Kaiser]

An avatar can do many other things, if they could do melee damage then thier total output would be to high. If you want a pet that serves as a significant source of melee DoT then you should be a Bst. If you want a pet that can do some melee and buff teammates attacks or defense, or nuke, or special attack, then your interested in smn.

Can't steal the thunder from another mans job, it's not an option.