An In-Depth Look at Making Geomancer a job in FFXI

[Kalledon]

I'm sure most of you have seen the interviews that say new jobs are coming. I realize that any thoughts on what those jobs will be is pure speculation, but it's fun to do and kills time. So heres how I think Geomancer could be implemented.

Edit: Editted to include suggestions from other posters



A Geomancer is somewhere in between a damage dealing class and a support class. This is because it can have both attacking and healing spells like a RDM but its magic is subjective to the terrain the Geomancer is standing on.

Geomancer Overview:
-Light armor, similar to that of a BRD
-Slightly proficient with some weapons
-Can cast both healing and attacking spells but spell list changes by location
-Has the potential to do lots of damage or healing

Now Geomancers have been in every class/job Final Fantasy except 11. They were in 3, 5, Tactics, and Tactics Advance. Between the 4 games they varied slightly. In 3 and 5 they simply had a geo skill and did not use mp while in the tactics games they were given spell lists and required mp. I propose a sort of blending of the two. I don't think Geomancers should use mp. Since they are basically coaxing the land into casting the spell for them. Now Geomancer spells would need to be different from black and white and on slightly longer Cooldown timers. This would also require a new magic skill, Geomancy.

Now some people have said that a problem with Geomancers only casting spells based on what terrain they have would limit their functionality. Well in addition to terrain we can also include weather into the Geomancer's spell potential. I also think there could be stackable items you keep in your inventory that correspond to certain elements (ex. Lump of clay (Earth)). If you cast a spell using this element while not actually being in that terrain it would consume the item. Also the items could be tiered so that you have to purchase different items to be able to cast the higher spells. Finally, certain weapons, Bells (which will be discussed later) could be imbued with certain elements that a Geomancer could draw upon to cast his magic.

Which brings me to the spell base. Since Geomancing is dependant upon terrain, weather, or elemental items the class itself would not need to purchases scrolls to learn specific spells, but rather purchase scrolls to unlock tiered elemental levels. Example: at level 1, a Geomancer can get a scroll accessing tier 1 stone spells. He is then able to cast spells like Earth Ball (stone) as long as he is standing on a earth based terrain. Also, traditionally, Geomancy spells have done debuffs in addition to damage. So Earth Ball might blind a target as well as do damage (but not as much damage as a BLM's Stone).

Now while Geomancing is primarily attack magic, it does have healing spells giving the class a slight support power while being mostly a support damage dealer.

------------COMPLETE CLASS DEFINITION-----------------

Combat Skills
Geomancy: A
Bell: A
Sword: C
Axe: B
Dagger: B
Club: C
Staff: B
Parrying: C
Evasion: C

Geo Types
Earth - Caves, Grass, Stone, Rock, Sand, Dirt, Earth weather effect
Fire - Fire weather effect, Desert
Ice, Water - Lakes, Oceans, Boats, Rain, Snow, Ice weather effect
Air, Thunder - Windy, Thunder weather effect, Mountains

Spell Progression (by Level)
1. Earth Tier 1
3. Water Tier 1
5. Air Tier 1
9. Fire Tier 1
15. Earth Tier 2
17. Water Tier 2
22. Air Tier 2
25. Fire Tier 2
31. Earth Tier 3
33. Water Tier 3
35. Air Tier 3
41. Fire Tier 3
45. Earth Tier 4
47. Water Tier 4
51. Air Tier 4
55. Fire Tier 4
63. Earth Tier 5
65. Water Tier 5
69. Air Tier 5
73. Fire Tier 5


Job Abilities
Lv1: Gaea's Blessing
Effect: Allows the Geomancer to cast his ultimate Geomancy spells. (Geomancer still has to have access to the right element to cast it. Also, the spells are AoE)
------Earth - Landslide; a crushing wave of boulders tumbles across the enemies
------Fire - Eruption; the ground explodes as waves of fire and lava gush to the surface
------Wind - Maelstrom; the winds gather together with the strenght of a hurricane
------Water - Tsunami; a giant wall of water rushes towards the enemies
------Ice - Arctic Freeze; the temperature drops to sub zero temperatures freezing everything in the area
------Thunder - Thunderstorm; massive amounts of lightning strikes to the area.
Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 2 hours.

Lv25: Gaea's Seal
Effect: Makes the next Geomancy spell double in power.
Duration: 1 spell cast. Lasts 30 seconds after cast.
Recast: 15 minutes.

Job Traits
Lv10: Geomancing Attack Up
Effect: Slightly increases the power of geomancy attacks.

Lvl15: Geomancing Heal Up
Effect: Slightly increases the power of geomancy healing spells.

Lv30: Elemental Defense Up
Effect: Slightly increases elemental defense.

Lv45: Geomancing Attack Up II
Effect: Further increases the power of geomancy attacks.

Lvl50: Geomancing Heal Up II
Effect: Further increases the power of geomancy healing spells.

Lv60: Elemental Defense Up II
Effect: Farther increases elemental defense.



New Weapon: Bells
Usable for Classes: Geomancer & Bard

Bells would be one handed weapons with a damage output similar to a dagger. Nothing really powerful. The main reason for equiping bells is that certain bells will have an element attached to it. Geomancers will be able to use spells from that element regardless of terrain. Most bells will be non-elemental tied and those that are will be very difficult to get.

[Ziero]

There were no genomancers in FFTA, the closest thing to genomancers were elementalists and ninjas. Both of which are in this game already as the blm ele enfeeble line and ninja's debuff tools.

and they didn't use MP in FFT, they cast if they knew the ability that corresponded to the ground they were currently standing on

[Kalledon]

They didn't use MP in FFT? Could of sworn they did. Oh well it's been a while since I played it, but this only furthers my point for no MP on the class.

And the Elementalist is a Geomancer with a different name. They did the EXACT same thing.

[Gman]

That was pretty well thought out, but I have a question.

If bells and various consumable items allow to cast magic regardless of terrain, then the 2 hour ablility seems kinda useless. It's like a RDM having a weapon they can equip that allows chainspell. Just a thought anyway...

Also, I never heard anything regarding any truth to new jobs coming out, so I'm going to stay on the doubter side here, but if they were to add a new job, Geomancer is definately one that I could see happening. All the rest of the classic FF jobs have either been done, or cant be done because existing jobs already have their abilities (ie. Time mage)

Only other job I can think of would be some kind of Engineer like Cid in FF2(IV)/ Edgar in FF3(VI) who uses tools of various kinds, but that could be hard to implement.

[Kalledon]

Well, the 2hr allows you to cast ALL Geo spells: Earth, Fire, Water, Wind, Thunder, Dark, Light, Ice. While the Bell can only allow one element at a time. So you equip a Fire Bell and can cast fire spells with it, but not any of the others.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Kalledon
Well, the 2hr allows you to cast ALL Geo spells: Earth, Fire, Water, Wind, Thunder, Dark, Light, Ice. While the Bell can only allow one element at a time. So you equip a Fire Bell and can cast fire spells with it, but not any of the others.

Couldn't you just use an Equip macro to switch out the bell with one of a different element and cast a different spell? Again, making the 2H useless.

[soru]

i think this sounds like a really good job and lets see if they put it in,cant wait.

[Kalledon]

Originally posted by Nameless
Couldn't you just use an Equip macro to switch out the bell with one of a different element and cast a different spell? Again, making the 2H useless.

Hmm...good point. Perhaps making the Bells ALL have elemental attributes would be a bad thing. Maybe only have a few have the element attribute or just remove Bells entirely.

[Kagetsu]

Well the Bells is a nice idea, but they should be Carby Mittens hard to get each one so that having a complete bell set would be an accomplishment.

And to make Bells a little more, well fair in a sense, and to make the Geomancer stay true to his job type, the bell would add a mixture of the terrain and the bell.

For example say you are Earth Terrain with the fire bell out. Now when you cast Earth Ball, the spell will then be changed into something like Inferno Rock, having the attributes of Fire and Earth.

It could also be that if you are on an Earth Terrain in Fire Weather you already have the mixed abilities availiable.

As for the 2 Hour, Gaea's Blessing could unlock the powers of the World!

For Example:

Lv1: Gaea's Pain: Deliver a concentrated elemental attack on the enemy, expending all your HP(Down to 1)

Lv15: Gaea's Strength: Render all party members within area of effect invincible for a short duration.

Lv31: Gaea's Compassion: Recover a signifigant amount of you're party members HP and MP.

Lv45: Gaea's Sorrow: Render the enemy defenseless reducing its defense by 50% for a short duration.

Lv63: Gaea's Soul: Increase the HP and MP of you're party signifigantly for a duration.

Lv75: Gaea's Fury: Increase the attack speed and power of your party very signifigantly for a short period of time

Just a small idea!

[ruffrydasean]

/stupid question

I haven't played many FFs so i don't know.. but can't hurt to ask

If he can only cast the element he's standing on, for example how would he be able to fight oh say.. something in Beau. Glacier if the mobs is ice based too...?

[Kalledon]

Originally posted by Kagetsu
Well the Bells is a nice idea, but they should be Carby Mittens hard to get each one so that having a complete bell set would be an accomplishment.

And to make Bells a little more, well fair in a sense, and to make the Geomancer stay true to his job type, the bell would add a mixture of the terrain and the bell.

For example say you are Earth Terrain with the fire bell out. Now when you cast Earth Ball, the spell will then be changed into something like Inferno Rock, having the attributes of Fire and Earth.

It could also be that if you are on an Earth Terrain in Fire Weather you already have the mixed abilities availiable.

As for the 2 Hour, Gaea's Blessing could unlock the powers of the World!

For Example:

Lv1: Gaea's Pain: Deliver a concentrated elemental attack on the enemy, expending all your HP(Down to 1)

Lv15: Gaea's Strength: Render all party members within area of effect invincible for a short duration.

Lv31: Gaea's Compassion: Recover a signifigant amount of you're party members HP and MP.

Lv45: Gaea's Sorrow: Render the enemy defenseless reducing its defense by 50% for a short duration.

Lv63: Gaea's Soul: Increase the HP and MP of you're party signifigantly for a duration.

Lv75: Gaea's Fury: Increase the attack speed and power of your party very signifigantly for a short period of time

Just a small idea!

That actually sounds pretty cool. Only problem I could see with this is fleshing out the spell list to make for cross over elements might take a while and turn the Geomancer into a super caster since (and I think I forgot to include this in the description) we could also include Day of the Week and Weather as an elemental opener.

Example: You're standing on sand in the dunes so you can cast earth, but its also dark day so you can cast dark spells and its fire weather so you get fire spells.

This also solves the problem you see descriped by ruffry
Originally posted by ruffrydasean
/stupid question

I haven't played many FFs so i don't know.. but can't hurt to ask

If he can only cast the element he's standing on, for example how would he be able to fight oh say.. something in Beau. Glacier if the mobs is ice based too...?

[Feenicks]

Firstly I think that implementing a magic system which is dependant on the terrain that's beneath the caster's feet is a little difficult to implement, and particularly restricts camping spots for XP parties, so therefore I think it would be better to class all the zones in FFXI to be of a particular element (La Theine: Wind, Qufim: Thunder, Castle Zvahl Baileys: Dark etc) and have the Geomancy spells work based on that.

Secondly, I think Geomancer would be a much flexible job if all Geomancy spells were available for use at any time regardless of zone, but the zone's elemental property would have a significant effect on the spell's efficiency. For instance, if La Theine was classed as a Wind zone, all Wind element Geomancy would be operating at full capacity (with a guaranteed +10% bonus for Wind weather, +20% for double Wind weather). However despite being able to use other Geomancy abilities they would take a penalty because of the caster being in a zone of incompatible element. The modifiers should be something like this:

Compatible zone (eg using Wind Geomancy in Wind zone): 100% +Weather bonuses

Incompatible zone (eg using Thunder Geomancy in Wind zone): 80%

Critically incompatible zone (eg using Ice Geomancy in a Fire zone): 40%

This would make the Geomancer great for compatible zones and only slightly less-than-great for incompatible ones.

Despite all this however I can forsee some definite hurdles with implementing a Geomancer in FFXI:

Monsters tend to be of the same element as the zone they reside in, eg Demons (Dark) in Castle Zvahl Baileys (also Dark). Under this system, the only Geomancy which would work at 100% effectiveness would be Dark Geomancy, which most of the inhabitants of this zone have a natural resistance to therefore crippling the Geomancer's offensive potential. If the Geomancer provided the primary role of support instead of offense then this point would not be as important.

This point would also render the Geomancer an even worse solo player than WHM, with his Geomancy generally being either critically weak, weak or resisted.

Perhaps a way around this would be to make the Geomancer 'memorise' the previous area he had visited and grant him the ability to use the Geomancy relative to that area and element with only a marginal efficiency hit, say 90% or something.

It's also very important that each class of Geomancy spells is balanced in order to prevent restricting the Geomancer's ability to participate in XP parties. We're going to an Earth area to XP ... what's that? All the Earth Geomancy is worthless? Is there a BLM seeking?

All in all though, it's a good thought. Keep up the creativity!

[Kalledon]

Originally posted by Feenicks
Firstly I think that implementing a magic system which is dependant on the terrain that's beneath the caster's feet is a little difficult to implement, and particularly restricts camping spots for XP parties, so therefore I think it would be better to class all the zones in FFXI to be of a particular element (La Theine: Wind, Qufim: Thunder, Castle Zvahl Baileys: Dark etc) and have the Geomancy spells work based on that.

Secondly, I think Geomancer would be a much flexible job if all Geomancy spells were available for use at any time regardless of zone, but the zone's elemental property would have a significant effect on the spell's efficiency. For instance, if La Theine was classed as a Wind zone, all Wind element Geomancy would be operating at full capacity (with a guaranteed +10% bonus for Wind weather, +20% for double Wind weather). However despite being able to use other Geomancy abilities they would take a penalty because of the caster being in a zone of incompatible element. The modifiers should be something like this:

Compatible zone (eg using Wind Geomancy in Wind zone): 100% +Weather bonuses

Incompatible zone (eg using Thunder Geomancy in Wind zone): 80%

Critically incompatible zone (eg using Ice Geomancy in a Fire zone): 40%

This would make the Geomancer great for compatible zones and only slightly less-than-great for incompatible ones.

Despite all this however I can forsee some definite hurdles with implementing a Geomancer in FFXI:

Monsters tend to be of the same element as the zone they reside in, eg Demons (Dark) in Castle Zvahl Baileys (also Dark). Under this system, the only Geomancy which would work at 100% effectiveness would be Dark Geomancy, which most of the inhabitants of this zone have a natural resistance to therefore crippling the Geomancer's offensive potential. If the Geomancer provided the primary role of support instead of offense then this point would not be as important.

This point would also render the Geomancer an even worse solo player than WHM, with his Geomancy generally being either critically weak, weak or resisted.

Perhaps a way around this would be to make the Geomancer 'memorise' the previous area he had visited and grant him the ability to use the Geomancy relative to that area and element with only a marginal efficiency hit, say 90% or something.

It's also very important that each class of Geomancy spells is balanced in order to prevent restricting the Geomancer's ability to participate in XP parties. We're going to an Earth area to XP ... what's that? All the Earth Geomancy is worthless? Is there a BLM seeking?

All in all though, it's a good thought. Keep up the creativity!

This is the whole reasoning for including weather, day of the week, consumable items, and enchanted weapons into the magic selection.

Classifying zones as one element instead of actuall terrain locations would be a worse move. By my definition you could easily get say water and earth from a location like the Dunes, but by what you are suggesting it would only be one or the other.

[Xylaa]

If there were bells, they shouldn't have an elemental attribute that means you can cast that spell anywhere, but an elemental attribute that increases the potency of that element's spells. Like, if you had a water bell, you couldn't cast water spells anywhere. But when you do cast water spells, their strength is increased by, say 5-25%, depending on the level of the bell.

Also, items don't matter, just the terrian and weather, so your spells are limited, but your physical attacks are much stronger than that of a red mage, but not as powerful as warriors or paladins or anything. I mostly see red mages in the back line, so it'd be nice to have a red mage-like job, but with less spells and more physical strength.

The bell could be a sub weapon, or where the ammo goes, and the Geomancer's best weapon would be the sword.

[LadyPeorth]

Making a Geomancer is incredibly difficult. The terrains in Final Fantasy XI just aren't as premitting as in the other games. So we need to make a balance so to speak:

1Limit of terrain: As it stands...most of the time in FFXI...we stand on Soil (Cape Terrigan, Valley of Sorrows, Kuftal Tunnel, Gustav Tunnel, Valkurm Dunes). Earth magic, although while fun...would be obviously the dominate spell being cast, and as very very few enemies are weak to earth...this makes resists pretty high. Also...getting Fire would be downright impossible and you could only have ice in Beaucidine or Xarcabard or Ulgerannd Range. If we move to weather...only sunny day is a real constant...and then it'd only be access to a 2nd set of powers or none at all (weather is same as area). Same thing with day of the week

Work Around: Obviously, terrain and weather has to have an effect. Day of the week...minor effect. So instead of disabling almost all spell sets. The Weather, Terrain, and Day should empower spells. Like say you're in Valkurm, it's Fire Weather, and Wind Day. Cause it's soil, your Earth spells get 10% more damage, Fire weather adds 10% to fire spells, and Wind day adds 5% to Wind. Terrain directly effects though...so as Valkurm is Earth, Lightning is only at 90%. This makes other spells viable, but slightly less effective.

I'll post more if people like my idea

[Kalledon]

This could work, but I just think giving Geomancers all their spells all the time would be a serious change from previous incantations.

[parra]

maybe a good idea is to restric the spells the geo can cast depending of the element of the area

elemental chart is:
Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth > Thunder > Water > Fire
Light <-> Dark

for example, lets say hes in altepa in a lvl 30 PT, concidering altepa could be earth and fire elements. In this area and cause of his current lvl lets say the highest spells he can cast is lvl 3 spells like earth III and Wind III etc,

cause hes in this Earth/Fire area i think he should be able to cast Earth III and Fire III , now, for those spells that are weak against the element of the area he is in right now, like thunder and ice he should be able to cast the lvl 1 spell (i.e. Ice I), and for the rest of the spells the lvl 2 version. Same rule for enfeebles and such, like some kind of paralyze, since its ice based shouldn't land often or a very weak paralyze against that mob in altepa.

the bell should help to land the spells that are weak to the element of the zone, again, in altepa PT lets say ur casting paralyze and mob is resiting it very often, but the ice bell u can get a better chance to land that spell, same for attack spells like "Ice I" w/o the bell should be not worth casting cause u gonna get resisted a lot, but with it equiped u can have a better chance to do damage, what i im trying to say is that bells only help the mobs not to resist spell, not to cast a higher version of em, so this way its not like having the 2Hr active all the time, which allows u to cast all the spells up to ur lvl, like "Ice III" in altepa at lvl 30.

[LadyPeorth]

Originally posted by Kalledon
This could work, but I just think giving Geomancers all their spells all the time would be a serious change from previous incantations.

It would encourage more leveling areas...like Castle Zvhal Baileys. Just have your Geomancer spam his spells while standing on the hard floor to enable a chance to petrify the monster.

However, it is very limiting so the spells would have to be extremely powerful. After all, imagine if your BLM could only cast Stone variety spells

[Macht]

Well for the game to determine what ground type it's on, that's pretty obvious it already knows to some degree. You can hear evidence of this in the sound the footsteps make in each terrain. Just the thing is how much does the game really identify of terrain types. At the lowest possible of identifying element currently it's quite evident that it identifies element by day, weather effect, and Skillchains.

If a Geomancer were to be made I would see it basis following among these factors (Think this more also since there are 8 element belts that were released a few updates ago, that grant full day and weather effect of a specific element).

As it stands right now regular spells are incapable of creating a Disstortion, Fragmentation, Induration, Fusion, or other Skillchain effects. I could see the Geomancer being a class of sorts to open more of these potentials which then holding true to the support mage type, were they can possibly open a Disstortion effect for a mage to Magic Burst on or a melee to skillchain against.

EDIT:

Possibly even an ability to hold open a skillchain so the next person to hit the right attack to skillchain on can further expand the damage potential delt.

It is apparent that the more skillchain effects you create in a single skillchain the more damage that is delt with the skillchain increasing in numbers of correct combinations following it. If a Geomancer is able to hold open this effect then the skillchain and resulting damage can grow exponentially, this also adds for making the players knowledge of the skillchains and resulting effects more extensive.

Keeping how Skillchains work in tacks then this ability would mean a player being mage or melee would have to have some real skill to hit huge skillchain numbers and damage.

For example a player starts out with a WS for Impaction, then it's followed with Liquifaction, at this point the Geomancer "Holds" the skillchain and the next players once they have the TP follows with a Scission, then a Reverberation, again Geomancer "Holds", then followed with a Induration the Compression, again "Holds", followed after with Transfixion and then hitting something like Distortion to finish the Skillchain.

So the results would be:
(Skillchain activated)

Impaction-> (Liquifaction)-> (Scission)-> (Reverberation)-> (Impaction)-> (Compression)-> (Transfixion)-> ((Distortion))

In the end creating a Distortion with strength potential reaching into 6x more damaging. Of course this wouldn't solely rely on the Geomancer to do this but the players in the party to use their WSs right to cause this effect. It would mean expanding the usual Skillchain design to go higher then it currently does for the 1 or 2 skillchains.

[tazirai]

Okay .. You guys have done it ><

2 years ago I tried to do a writ eup for Geomancer but couldnt get it to work.
I now have a great Idea and it wont steal any elements of feenicks or Kalledon's posts.

grr you guys....


/em marches off to research and write .....grrs loudly waving fist :mad: :mad: (not mad just looks good on the web hehe)

Im also gonna do a time mage rewrite also



lol I'll have write up ready sunday w.

[Kalledon]

Originally posted by tazirai

Im also gonna do a time mage rewrite also



lol I'll have write up ready sunday w. [/B]

Hehe, I'm just finished a Time Mage that I'll be posting as soon as I finish grammar/spell checking. :spin:

[Pai Pai Master]

Moved to Jobs forum.

[Kalledon]

Editted the description to include suggestions from other posters. Also removed Light and Dark spells stuff since they aren't technically elemental and don't really have anything to do with Geomancy.