Melee fascination?

[Cloud Tiamat]

Why is there often a lot of players (and by players I mean North American gamers) that go for melee fighters as opposed to spellcasters?

[Serantos]

Alright, I'll lay it out for ya, You're lvl 9. So everyone you party with is low lvl also. Most people pick WAR as a first job to take to 30 to unlock advanced jobs. People pick up WAR because its a very versitile job, it can DD and also tank, to an extent. But you dont see very many WAR in Full AF...

Kinda rambling, but as your level increases, you will see more mages, especially RDM... man, theres so much. Myself, I'm a Paladin, melee? I'm worthless, i hardley ever connect, and when I do its like 20 damage, useless. But I'm damn good at getting my ass kicked! :biggrin:

[Kilgraw]

People want to be the hero / knight in shining armor with the large sword they read about, saw in a movie, or played in a video game.

[Pounce]

Just look at the gear.

Melee get to wear heavy badass plate armor and wield cool weapons.

Mages get to wear....robes..and more robes. They carry..sticks......and bigger sticks.

In addition, this is my personal theory, but magic doesn't really look all that cool in FFXI compared to some other games. You don't get to say, shoot fireballs or lightning bolts out of the palm of your hand.

The ability to create wild pyrotechnics is one of the main perks of playing mage jobs, and IMHO, FFXI doesn't have it.

I typically pick mage classes in RPGs mainly because of the cool spell effects. BLM was the very first job I started the game with, and I retired it at around Lv9 because I was disappointed with how "uncool" the spells looked ;/

[truenoir]

Consider also the distribution of job types.

Casters: WHM, BLM, RDM, SMN, BRD

Melee/DD/tank: WAR, THF, MNK, NIN, RNG, DRG, BST, DRK, PLD, SAM

Granted that DRK and PLD are sorta hybrid, but you don't generally rely on them only for casting.

If every 15 people picked a different job, you'd still have a lack of balance, and you'd still have melee left over after making two usable parties or so.

I think you still do see a larger percent choose damage or at least tanking over support roles. I think one reason is that those are percieved as more fun...and really I think are for most people. Less stressful, mostly simpler to play, less responsibility (outside the puller and tank or thf), etc.
Even many endgame mages I know want to level DD jobs for a second job.

A lotta times things go in phases anyway...at least past the dunes levels. Sometimes you can't find a tank, sometimes a healer, sometimes a refresher, etc. With people playing multiple jobs, there's nothing saying they never play a healer either (though I see far fewer career melee going back and levelling mages, perpetuating the low-mage count at low level when mages are levelling melee jobs :rolleyes: )

[Pounce]

(though I see far fewer career melee going back and levelling mages, perpetuating the low-mage count at low level when mages are levelling melee jobs

Back when I too, gave up DRG and started RDM, there were a lot of fellow melee DDs who were doing the same.

The RDM level distribution is something quite interesting IMHO. There's certainly a ton of RDM overall - just look at all the RDM AF in Jeuno - but still there is never one available when you most need one. Which makes me think they're all concentrated at a certain level range, perhaps the 70+? I'm not sure.

Regardless, the fad of the moment job seems to be RNG. I'm seeing tons of people both former melee DD and mage - leveling RNG these days. It's gotten to the point that some parties refuse to level without at least one RNG - wtf?!

[Jei]

I heard about bard refusing PT wihtout ranger, haven't seen one myself. Haven't run into PT refusing to play without Ranger yet.

So far the only picky one I saw with my own eyes was a Whm refusing to PT with PLD...
which is pretty lame IMO... I attached his signature here take a look
http://ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52598

[Arximiro]

Mages dont even get to hear the battle music I cant imagine being a mage it would be so boring. brd would be the worst tho No music and u couldnt deal no damn damage if u wanted too. all they are good for is the pt. Im sure mage is fun I jus couldnt imagine no battle music. guess they could jus engage and stand there.

[tazirai]

Originally posted by Arximiro
Mages dont even get to hear the battle music I cant imagine being a mage it would be so boring. brd would be the worst tho No music and u couldnt deal no damn damage if u wanted too. all they are good for is the pt. Im sure mage is fun I jus couldnt imagine no battle music. guess they could jus engage and stand there.

I get to hear battle music alot ^^ Not every mages jus stands to heal and MB then sit docile.
Trust me, me and estya never do hehe.

[JU571N]

Mage job in a party = fun.
Mage job solo = nightmare.

[Teh Blind Guard]

For people that like to conserve MP like me in RPGS, Mages in MMOs suck for us. I am one of those people.

I kinda prefer WAR and stuff like that because they do not need to use MP to be powerful.

When I start to play FFXI on Thursday.

[Susurrus]

Originally posted by JU571N
Mage job in a party = fun.
Mage job solo = nightmare.


Phhht...RDM solo isn't a nightmare.

[iglak]

Originally posted by truenoir
Granted that DRK and PLD are sorta hybrid, but you don't generally rely on them only for casting.
and NIN.


and it's a stretch, but THF a bit also, because of the availability of enfeebling additional effects on weapons (H2H, Dagger, and Marksmanship), and the dagger weaponskills' status effects.

[Dux]

The general trend is that people want to be the "hero" so yes there is more melee than mages.

That is not to say that melee are better than mages its simply that there is more of them.

[Cloud Tiamat]

So being a healer, Black Mage, bard, etc. doesn't feel "heroic" to most players? :p

[Jei]

yea look at the japanese manga in general. The hero is the fighter who use sword, be the one to last-shot the big boss, screw with the beautiful princess and end up high in a castle :biggrin: Poor mages, minor characters, are stuck hooking up with each other. And live the rest of their lives in a small house away in a small villege growing grains and raise cows ^^

[ZQM]

There is an openly-gay linkshell on my server (PinkTriangle). The majority of the male members are either BRD or WHM. Almost all of the gay players outside of the LS are also BRD or WHM.

;)





Not that there's anything wrong with being gay.

[Pounce]

That's an interesting point.

My friend and I were chatting on AIM and he brought up the topic of how most female players seemed to play mage jobs, and not melee DDs or even tanks. That's what I noticed too - I think every female player I've met in-game save 1 was a mage.

I know of only 2 openly gay players on my server, but yep - you guessed it, both play mages.

[Icemage]

Not all females play mages. I know quite a few level 75 players who are female and have no mage jobs levelled. Granted, there are more female mages than non-mages, but they're not as rare as you might think.

Now if you want to talk rare, try to find a female playing a Galka. :P


Icemage

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by Icemage


Now if you want to talk rare, try to find a female playing a Galka. :P



LOL So true! I've lvled up all the races and even both sex of each one but Galka {No thanks!}!

I also started out as a melee. I like doing damage. I like being in the fight and smacking mobs around. I'm not big on tanking, though I've lvled nin and pld.

[Rico]

There's a good amount of female melee's on my server. I'm melee not to be the hero. It's more like I just wanna wack some things with my axes.;)

[Cavalier]

I was a WAR right off the bat cause, well, I was gonna be a PLD, regardless of what a PLDs role was.


Sorry if I'm stepping on anyone's toes here, but it's been suggested that more JP are mage / non-melee classes than NA because they (as a culture) tend to be more spiritual (however you may interpet that) than NA players.

I know a good deal about JP culture (not as much as I'd like, but still...), but I know even more about NA culture (being one myself), and it's completely fair to suggest just about ANY culture is more spiritual than America's. :angel:

[Jei]

Hey, to be Spiritual in Japan can mean they're Samurai :biggrin: So I don't think it entirely connects to mage jobs.

[2.0]

Any idiot can swing a weapon. It takes someone with guts to play a job where you actually have to handle some responsibility . But hey most people are stupid which is why most people level melee jobs. Coincidence? I think not.

[Gekoman]

Originally posted by 2.0
Any idiot can swing a weapon. It takes someone with guts to play a job where you actually have to handle some responsibility . But hey most people are stupid which is why most people level melee jobs. Coincidence? I think not.

Stereotype much? :rolleyes:

[Cavalier]

Originally posted by Gekoman
Stereotype much? :rolleyes:

Stereotype? Yes.

Accurate? Yes. :spin:


Although, pretty much all jobs are simple early on.

[Jei]

And that's why we have so many bad Redmages :mad:

[Pounce]

Yes, I agree. I would have to say there are more stupid RDM than any other job in the game, mainly because stupid RDM will still get parties.

[tazirai]

Originally posted by Jei
And that's why we have so many bad Redmages :mad:

Can I quote you? ww

[Susurrus]

Originally posted by Pounce
Yes, I agree. I would have to say there are more stupid RDM than any other job in the game, mainly because stupid RDM will still get parties.

That, and it also takes more to be a good RDM. A good melee can swing a weapon and do the occaisional WS in a SC to be considered not stupid. Takes a lot more for a RDM.

[Rico]

Originally posted by 2.0
Any idiot can swing a weapon. It takes someone with guts to play a job where you actually have to handle some responsibility . But hey most people are stupid which is why most people level melee jobs. Coincidence? I think not.

Guts? You guys stay in the back and fight, thats no guts :spin:

If you want Responsibility that's a PLD's job. They are the ones that make sure nobody esle gets hit.

[2.0]

Originally posted by Rico
Guts? You guys stay in the back and fight, thats no guts :spin:

If you want Responsibility that's a PLD's job. They are the ones that make sure nobody esle gets hit.

Wrong. Dead wrong. If a melee job fucks up, monsters die slowly. If a mage or tank job fucks up players die quickly. I don't know about you bro but that sounds a lot like responsibility to me. And having said responsiblilty takes guts

[Xythalia]

Originally posted by 2.0
Wrong. Dead wrong. If a melee job fucks up, monsters die slowly. If a mage or tank job fucks up players die quickly. I don't know about you bro but that sounds a lot like responsibility to me. And having said responsiblilty takes guts

And if melee job screws up, mages die quickly too. I'd say equal responsibilty for all members even DD melees. It's all about choosing what sort of responsibilty the player wants to take.

As for me though...I'm a BST. I'm a mage, tank, hate control, healer, and damage dealer all in one! Take that for skill and responsibility!

[Abriael]

Wow, i didn't know that hacking an imaginary monster while playing a game took guts (bold guts too)... one always learns something...











LOL!

[tazirai]

Originally posted by Xythalia
And if melee job screws up, mages die quickly too. I'd say equal responsibilty for all members even DD melees. It's all about choosing what sort of responsibilty the player wants to take.

As for me though...I'm a BST. I'm a mage, tank, hate control, healer, and damage dealer all in one! Take that for skill and responsibility!

and my personal whm ..ahem

[2.0]

No. Just hacking an imaginary monster while playing a game doesn't take guts which is what i've been saying the whole time.

On the other hand, protecting and caring for party members where your direct actions result in their success and having a good time or their failure and having a bad time playing the game.(Thus allowing them to hack an imaginary monster while playing a game) does in fact takeguts . There are alot of players out there who cannot do this and it is truly unfortunate. This is why you tend to see meleeing mages and lack of mages (especially bards) at certain levels.

[kuu]

The leader of my LS is a 25yr old house wife. Her job is Darknight. How's that?

I think hollywood influenced too many people into melees. They demand action. If this was a battle based RPG, there would be some shifts, but ffxi is the classic kind.

[Abriael]

Playing a game doesn't take guts, it may take skill, but it's a game, you risk nothing, period.
Don't try to make yourself look like an epic hero for playing a MMORPG, please, that's really laughable.

[Gekoman]

Originally posted by 2.0

On the other hand, protecting and caring for party members where your direct actions result in their success and having a good time or their failure and having a bad time playing the game

Melee have an equal amount of chances to show how much "guts" they have obtained.

Realise its a multiplayer, hence each person does their job. Each person can show how much "guts" they have.
For instance if your tank goes down and the DD dealer provokes and tells the mages to run that takes "guts".

It all depends on the context of the situation!

I quote guts since it really isnt the word to describe it... Responsibility may be better

[Kilgraw]

Originally posted by Gekoman
For instance if your tank goes down and the DD dealer provokes and tells the mages to run that takes "guts".
O.O What Drg in his right mind would do this. I have more survivability then he does. :rolleyes:

[Gekoman]

A highly drunk one whos ready to hit the Super Jump macro :thumbsup:

[Kilgraw]

Now that's the kind of Drg I'm used of seeing. ;)

[kuu]

You've never seen JP parties that all spam [Run Away!] but no one moves.

The mages refuse to let tanks die, and tanks refuse to let healers die.

Insanely stupid at times, but they have "guts" lol. Sounds like a drama scene, but it really happens!.

[Jei]

oh noz I'm a WHM if I cure PLD I will build HATE omgwtfnothx I have no guts I'll only dia and banish no cure for j00.

uu - yea in your situation, Whm responsibity is to not die >.> they should be the first to run.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by Abriael
Playing a game doesn't take guts, it may take skill, but it's a game, you risk nothing, period.
Don't try to make yourself look like an epic hero for playing a MMORPG, please, that's really laughable.

It's a figure of speech for pete's sake.

[Rai|Kye]

Originally posted by kuu
You've never seen JP parties that all spam [Run Away!] but no one moves.

The mages refuse to let tanks die, and tanks refuse to let healers die.

Insanely stupid at times, but they have "guts" lol. Sounds like a drama scene, but it really happens!.

Chainspell > Escape helps :sweat: :thumbsup:

[Huaua]

all this talking about guts reminded me of the time when i was in 6th grade and i was going up to do my presentation ifront of the class. i was wearing fairly small gym shorts and a tight gym shirt. The paper i was holding with my speech on it was right at my crotch, and i wouldnt stand properly ifront of everyone. Kinda slowching and stuff. Anyways, the teacher comes over and keeps moving my body and telling me how to stand up properly. I bodly say that "I cant! i have a boner!"....ohh childhood, how i miss you:spin:

[Susurrus]

Melees don't have to buy their abilities. =P Mages have to buy their spells (well so do NINs DRKs and PLDs) Of course NINs and RNGs have to buy an upkeep of items that make them of any use (Ninja Tools & Arrows).

All other melees get all their abilites handed to them. We mages have to buy them. And we get them a lot more often.:thumbsup: Don't want to buy your abilities? Play a melee.

[Vinen]

Originally posted by TheGrandMom
LOL So true! I've lvled up all the races and even both sex of each one but Galka {No thanks!}!

I also started out as a melee. I like doing damage. I like being in the fight and smacking mobs around. I'm not big on tanking, though I've lvled nin and pld.

One of the First Galka I met was played by a Female!

[Macht]

Well in responce to the original posters question. I actually started as a Mage, in all my previous MMOs I've always been a Mage. This game was the first were for some reason RNG caught my intrest, the only thing that kind of disgusted me was how rampant RNG/NIN is. To many Rangers who are suppose to be serious damage dealers but giving up the chances to peak it for protection, even in an ideal party setup were a RNG/WAR is more powerful is just sad.

[Coinspinner]

I was told by several melee players, including two RNG/NIN and a NIN, that the main reason they "couldn't stand to" or "would never" play mage classes because they lose money every level on scrolls they'd eventually stop using altogether. One stated "at least with RNG I get a good return on ammo money." That was at least a year before the great ranged weapon nerf though.

I agree with the comment about responsibility. Tanks have it, healers have it, supporters have it, pullers have it. Crowd controllers have less, up to the point where their abilities are needed.

What did we all hear at low levels?

"I don't have ranged with me I can't pull."

"See my /NIN? I am a MELEE RED MAGE, I DON"T ****ING HEEL!!1!"

"i dun wanna tank im dd war :("

"I don't have Sleepga, Sleep is good enough so I'll just save for Sleepga 2"

Damage bots don't have responsibility beyond not botching Trick Attack or taking hate often enough to drain the healer. Failing these will just slow the group down, and at worst cost the DD his own EXP. Oh they can attempt to tank after the tank's death, but DD are just slightly sturdier than casters in this game and most groups have CC, Escape, and possibly a nearby zone boundary to cross.

Of course, that's mostly just perception. Melee DD have the heaviest "responsibility" in the equipment department. New players don't realize that though. I hated seeing my friends struggling to earn the millions of gil it took to reach "adequate" status. I quit before the food patch and don't know exactly what things are like now, but I doubt Square's changed their tune.

Mistigris waves to Arximiro.

[Dadelon]

Why stand in the back of the line and cast spells?

Much better to face your enemy...

So grab your greatsword and cut something in two....

No interruptions here..Can't cast a spell cause something hit me,

Just hope that you did not take a swing at a "VT", Without a spellcaster nearby.

Cause that black mage can save yer butt by casting warp....