making SE change Dynamis

[reinheartzero]

Hello,

Today I am writing here to see if anyone is interested to support my opinion and send mail to Square Enix regarding Dynamis.

If you have done Dynamis for more than 5 times I am sure you all know that in Dynamis the drop rate on Relic Gear (AF2) is very rare, especially for some jobs in some areas. (Especially for Beaucidine and Xarcabard.)

I have sent a mail to Square Enix through POL - Service & Support regarding issues with dynamis as following in Japanese (translated):


To FFXI Development Team,

Today I am writing this letter for the 4th time regarding Dynamis.

I am the LS leader for one Dynamis LS on Hades server named DynamisDominator.
We have gone to dynamis since 12/15/04, total of 36 Dynamis runs; I also have been entering dynamis on my previous server on Fairy, for about 30 times or more.

I have noticed that in Dynamis the drop rate for Relic Gear (AF2) for some jobs are really bad. I have been into Dynamis where no AF2 has dropped in 2-3 hours of time spent inside. I have mentioned the same information above in my past three mails sent to you and I still haven’t seen any changes to Dynamis therefore this time I have asked all my LS members who would like to write this same mail to help me and themselves to have this problem fixed.

Most Dynamis Link shells who enter dynamis, once they clear + get their AF2 for that particular area stops attending that area, which makes it that much harder for the rest of the people who still needs the relic gear from that area. You will say something like “then recruit more people.� This does not work in dynamis because it requires every player to play at the same rules, if you invite random people every dynamis you may end up with people who do not listen to your rules, looting on every item dropped.

My LS goes by a point system where members earn points and receive the AF2 gear in priority order of highest points looting first. This is working fine for attendance, but the problem is for some jobs the AF2 doesn’t drop at all. (Example: I have never seen WHM AF2 drop in Dynamis Windurst.) I believe the drop rate for all jobs should be equally set and set so at least there is a chance for everyone to get something.

Areas such as Beaucidine and Xarcabard, you have to choose if we will be farming that area for AF2’s or clearing that area. We have tried AF2 camping for some times at Beaucidine and was only able to get 1-3 AF2 drops in that area. For Xarcabard out of 6 times we were only able to get two AF2.To me this is ridiculous; you want us to get 30-64 people to enter these dynamis areas and only two AF2 out of 6 times. How long does it take to get 30-64 AF2’s at this rate?
We have tried taking many THF jobs inside dynamis to test the Job Trait “Treasure Hunter 2� also some with the weapon “Thief’s Knife� which gives additional Treasure Hunter effect. The result we got was the same. Therefore we assume that THF job’s job trait Treasure Hunter is useless in dynamis. Why did you guys even make Treasure Hunter then?

My next issue, which was also brought up in my past mails is regarding the ancient bills dropped in dynamis. Looking at your book, your company released “Vana’diel Word Report ver.050224� It says that these bills are used for Relic Weapon upgrades. I see that for the first upgrade 300-400 bills are needed, 2nd upgrade required 1400-1600 bills, 3rd upgrade required 6,000-6,400 bills and from rumors and screen shots for the last 5th upgrade 10,000 bills are needed. Now from the data I collected after 60+ dynamis runs, for the three cities (Windurst, Sandoria, Bastok), the average amount of bills collected are from 100 bills to 400 bills and for Beaucidine ranging from 30-40 bills to 100 bills (depending if 100 bill drops.) Xarcabard we have only seen from 5 bills to 20 bills maximum.
How do you expect 30-64 members to get the fully upgraded relic weapon at this rate? I have seen screen shots of one person getting the fully upgraded relic weapon but it took him one whole year. Not only this person getting ALL the bills from ALL his dynamis runs, but he also had to buy from bazaar’s and this took him one year +.

Also please understand, you made Dynamis so that we can enter once every 3 days (72 hours) after entering dynamis. And at the same time you cannot enter the same dynamis if another LS is already inside. I am pretty sure this was made this way because of how it was made up, but if you think about it we have how many Link shells out there?

Again on your “Vana’diel World Report� on the interview section one of your staff has commented about this relic weapon that “Seeing one person with fully upgraded weapon will make everyone happy.� Now, from my point of view, I will NEVER allow just one person to log on every dynamis bill, just so this person can get his fully upgraded weapon + I would not think I would help him for 1 year + just for him to get the weapon. Now this is one person thinking this way, what would the rest of 29-63 people think about this one person? Please think about it, no one will want to help, even if there was, the number of people that would help or enter dynamis will decrease as time passes and it won’t be enough people to go in Dynamis for killing the monsters. Yes again you may say something like “Go shout and recruit members to help you.� But again there will always be a person who will try to loot on everything even if they are not allowed to, there will always be a person who wont listen to instructions and mess up the whole Dynamis run. Again thinking about how your previous mails I received from you, you may say this next “Then don’t invite those people who would try to take evil, wrong actions� How are we supposed to know, who is good and who is bad? We do not know everyone on the server.

Is it not possible to look over the Dynamis you have created so it's easier for all players to enjoy? Isn't what this game is for?

Thank you

End of translation


Anyways my mail was something like that, some of you might say that was long and boring, but i was trying to show them what the facts are and how stupid it is for them to write stupid comments on the book called "Vana'diel Word Report" Its a huge book release in JPan with like 700-800 pages with FFXI information and has interview with FFXI development team regarding the future of this game. Most of the comment in there pisses me off but for now I wanted to fix this Dynamis problem.

If any of you is interested in helping me, and also want to try see if SE will reply to us in changing Dynamis please send them a mail through POL.

Thank you very much,

Reinheart @ Hades Server - LOTL/DD LS Leader.

[Ziguld]

Quick fixes to Dynamis that I see needing.

1) removal of the 72 hour limit. Cut it back to 24 hours.
2) If its a NM it should drop a HQ class piece of relic money.
3) adding some sort of trigger mobs that up AF2 drop rates (especially for Beauc and Xarc).

[Niland]

i think you're mistaken about treasure hunter, in my experience it works well in dynamis.

i think the only changes i'd like to see are:

a guaranteed 100-currency + random AF2 drop from the boss of each area.

the goblin trader working both ways (ie if you could trade the goblin relic iron for currency as well as the current way)

[Vilurum]

I'd be satisfied with Niland's idea of reverse-trading except it'd make the items themselves pretty much unavailable. Who would bother AH'ing the near-useless item when they could turn it into several hundred-currency pieces? And for some of those upgrades you do in fact want the item itself, or something synthed from it.

That, and Beaucedine and Xarcabard need AF2 drop rate improvements in general. The AF2 there is exclusive enough just because of the requirements to *get* there. There's no need to make it even more exclusive by giving it a horrible drop rate.

Wouldn't object to a reduction in the repeat timer. 24 hours (especially if it counted from the start rather than the end of the Dynamis run) would make it a lot more viable for an LS to do multiple runs in a weekend, even if weekday runs weren't an option. Limiting it to one group at once *is* necessary because of how Dynamis is instantiated.

[Blood Red Poet]

I thought the entire player base was against making anything easier at all? 1,000 threads about "boo who exp time lost"... do we need "boo woo dynamis time lost"?

[Ayrilana]

The current system is fine how it is. Kind of pointless to make the drops become any easier to the point where it's handed down to you.

[Fire]

Treasure hunter seems to have minimal effect in dynamis from my experience. Take 3+ THF with TH3 TH3 TH4 and got 0 AF from xarca, then next time take 2x THF TH2 TH3 and get 3-4 pieces. It's all dependent on luck. I don't see why SE would change dynamis though. AF2 is rare because its to be sought after. What good is it to be able to go into a area and equip 10-15 people a run with AF2? It does nothing but make AF2 less special.

Currency.... Relic weapons are for those who really wanna show dedication. Upgrading takes tons of time, gil, and effort. Would be stupid imo to make them easier to get. Why make the best weapons ingame easy to get? It's not about getting 30-64 people the best weapon in game. It's about seeing who wants it more. I like it this way, it keeps it special and unique.

[tnt118]

Originally posted by Fire
Treasure hunter seems to have minimal effect in dynamis from my experience. Take 3+ THF with TH3 TH3 TH4 and got 0 AF from xarca, then next time take 2x THF TH2 TH3 and get 3-4 pieces. It's all dependent on luck. I don't see why SE would change dynamis though. AF2 is rare because its to be sought after. What good is it to be able to go into a area and equip 10-15 people a run with AF2? It does nothing but make AF2 less special.

Currency.... Relic weapons are for those who really wanna show dedication. Upgrading takes tons of time, gil, and effort. Would be stupid imo to make them easier to get. Why make the best weapons ingame easy to get? It's not about getting 30-64 people the best weapon in game. It's about seeing who wants it more. I like it this way, it keeps it special and unique.

special and unique.. kinda like the thief knife!

/hides

^^

[Niland]

Originally posted by Vilurum
I'd be satisfied with Niland's idea of reverse-trading except it'd make the items themselves pretty much unavailable. Who would bother AH'ing the near-useless item when they could turn it into several hundred-currency pieces? And for some of those upgrades you do in fact want the item itself, or something synthed from it.


before i get misunderstood: i had in mind the same rates, just going the other way. like 24 relic steels for one jadeshell or something silly, i'd hope it would make the currency market more dynamic then it is right now. Its possible it might unbalance the market and make it too easy: they'd have to calculate the rates carefully... But i think it would work ok.


That, and Beaucedine and Xarcabard need AF2 drop rate improvements in general. The AF2 there is exclusive enough just because of the requirements to *get* there. There's no need to make it even more exclusive by giving it a horrible drop rate.


i think its fine having the lower drop rate in glacier & xarca, i'd rather they tweak the worse AF pieces to make them more worthwhile instead of increasing the drop rate.

i agree with fira that TH has little impact on xarca, but thats more to do with the format of that particular dynamis. our inventories of city runs with and without TH show that there is a clear increase in drops with TH2+ present. but i don't think thats rocket science, its pretty obvious stuff really^^

[Ziguld]

Currency.... Relic weapons are for those who really wanna show dedication. Upgrading takes tons of time, gil, and effort. Would be stupid imo to make them easier to get. Why make the best weapons ingame easy to get? It's not about getting 30-64 people the best weapon in game. It's about seeing who wants it more. I like it this way, it keeps it special and unique.
I'd say theres a difference between dedication and madness. In their current form its above and beyond dedication to complete the upgrades simply because of the insane amounts of currency needed.

Assume a NM = garunteed 1 HQ. If you managed to kill every NM in Jeuno thats 36HQ money. Its not gonna turn Relic weapons into the next Haubergeon or anything.

And lets face it... MMORPGs always go through the same cycles. Whats the best today wont be the best in a year. Its kind of stupid to have the "best" take nearly a years worth of work to acquire when sooner or later someone is going to come along and make it look old and outdated. And unless SE intends for FFXI to stagnate and never mudflate(aka die off) it will happen.

i think its fine having the lower drop rate in glacier & xarca, i'd rather they tweak the worse AF pieces to make them more worthwhile instead of increasing the drop rate.
Considering Shura Kote and Sune-Ate stats are still unchanged, I highly doubt SE would tweak the "why the fek does this exist" pieces of AF2. It seems if by intention or not that every job has at least one "OMGWTFBBQ MUST HAVE!" piece of AF2, a couple "not bad, I can see a use" and one "which window licker thought this up" piece.

Its a tad disappointing when AF upgrades are inferior to AF1, yah?

[Fire]

Originally posted by Ziguld
Assume a NM = garunteed 1 HQ. If you managed to kill every NM in Jeuno thats 36HQ money. Its not gonna turn Relic weapons into the next Haubergeon or anything.

Um... yes it will. 36x 100pieces per run x how ever many dynamis LS go that day x 2 times per week = alot of fuckin currency. People could upgrade in a mere month instead of 4-5.

[Ziguld]

Bear in mind, theres 36 NMs in Jeuno counting the mega boss. When is really the last time you cleared it all? Bastok only has 10 or 11 NMs counting the Effigy Shields. Last time I cleared Bastok top to bottom we got 8HQ. Its not really that huge a jump.

So you can get a relic weapon in 5 months rather than a year if you're really commited. Is that really the end of the world? Dynamis has been around how long and only two completed weapons exist? And if relic weapons where easier to get, more people would be trying which means the money wouldn't be so heavily focused into a few people. So that 5 months would be more like 8 or so since now you'll have Blm and Smn trying to upgrade their staves as well now.

Can you honestly say that a 32/176 dagger that takes one year is worth the effort when a 31/210 dagger drops off a 21-24 hour repop mob?

[Fire]

took me 30+ kills to get perseus harpe ;3

[Ziguld]

random thought regarding AF2 drops...
instead of having completed AF2 drop, have some sort of redemption item thats based into Tank, Melee, Mage, Support jobs. You then run this item over to your local goblin who normally gives you the hourglass, trade it along with another item to define your job and get your AF2. Or just get the choice of what you want after trading in the one item.

Like say you're doing Sandy... San d'Orian Mage Coin (name subject to change of course) drops. You can run it to any goblin afterwards and change it in for Whm cap, Smn boots, Rdm boots. Would help with those wonderful runs we've all experienced where 3 Drg or 3 Mnk drop and rot ><

yes, idea blatently stolen from Furor. cookie if anyone knows what he was bitching about that week when this idea first got shotdown.

[PetriW]

Didn't Furor bitch about the same thing every expansion? ;)

[mdn]

although they shouldn't change the drop rate or anything like that, they definitely need to change the way they have the drops coded. how many times have you entered dynamis to see the same AF drop multiple times? ninja AF is retardedly common, to a point where many second-job ninjas have close to full sets in our ls. beastmaster AF is very common, certain cities have certain AF that constantly drops. this should be random, it shouldn't work the way it does. i shouldn't have 0 pieces of blm AF2 and full ninja AF2 :rolleyes:

[Ara]

Originally posted by Fire
Treasure hunter seems to have minimal effect in dynamis from my experience. Take 3+ THF with TH3 TH3 TH4 and got 0 AF from xarca, then next time take 2x THF TH2 TH3 and get 3-4 pieces. It's all dependent on luck. I don't see why SE would change dynamis though. AF2 is rare because its to be sought after. What good is it to be able to go into a area and equip 10-15 people a run with AF2? It does nothing but make AF2 less special.

Currency.... Relic weapons are for those who really wanna show dedication. Upgrading takes tons of time, gil, and effort. Would be stupid imo to make them easier to get. Why make the best weapons ingame easy to get? It's not about getting 30-64 people the best weapon in game. It's about seeing who wants it more. I like it this way, it keeps it special and unique.

Amen

[Fire]

I just don't see why people gotta cry and bitch about everylittle thing. OMG TEH DROP RATE IS TEH SUCK FIX PLZSZ or WTFUX SO HARD I QUIT! Cop missions used to be fuckin hard now can do most of them easy with only 1-2 tries. Why? Because people cry and bitch because shits to hard for them. Is like fuckin homo's who can never level without a powerlevel'r and dont know how to function in a party when they don't have one.

But I do agree with Mdn on job drops being more random. We get so much sam and war af2 its stupid.

[PetriW]

I don't think the drop rate on af armor is that bad, I've seen 2 or 3 items each clear. The randomness sucks but can be endured. It would be much better if they were like a pattern that you created an armor piece with though (pretty common in EverQuest when they wanted people to get better gear).

Anyway, while af are decent the relic weapons are insane. I could probably afford upgrading a relic weapon quite far (see my sig if you wonder why) but the limit is availability of the coins rather than anything else. It's an epic undertaking to make 1 weapon, that's simply not right.

I want bard horn one day (less switching instruments wooo) but 7700 coins is... rude... not counting you need a behemoth horn too.
Yes, I think items shouldn't be too easy to get but that's just ridiculous. :P

[Abriael]

Originally posted by PetriW
It's an epic undertaking to make 1 weapon, that's simply not right.


Actually it's perfectly right. It's supposed to be an epic undertaking, otherwise it wouldn't have any value.
Getting things without efforts belongs to WoW, not here.

[truenoir]

I agree that Dynamis drops should be tuned...just like a lotta stuff in the game should be tuned.
I like the pattern/coin idea and have said stuff like that in the past as well. Matter of perspective perhaps...if you were a BLM, going for literally months and not seeing any BLM AF drop (I think I've seen two drop in like 9-10 months of doing Dynamis), well that's a bit screwed up, especially in the eyes of the numerous BLM that attend/you want to attend.

Relic Weapons are also a bit insane...

There's a difference between making something a challenge to get...and making it a blatant tease/timesink. FFXI really needs more balance of putting time/effort into something and getting a reward for certain. Not to make things easy per-se, but more to just avoid trying for them being pointless.

[Ziguld]

As it stands right now, dynamis isn't prim proper and working fine. If you think it is, then by all means would you like to work for me? I need more people willing to put in a solid workweek and accept the lint from my pockets as good payment.

Snarky comments aside now... The drop rates do need tweaking. If you where at least garunteed one frecken drop off the bosses I would be a little less bitchy regarding this. The fact that in the last four Beauc runs my shell has done we got one piece of AF2 screams the RvR is fubar'd there. Every Bastok run we do we'll walk out with 8-13 AF2 and 4-8HQ money. Bastok seems to give similar results to other shells on my server too. My personal record from Bastok was 11AF2 7HQ money. Why is it that Bastok is rewarding for my time spent (albiet that 3 where Mnk and 2 where Drg aka 5 rot...), yet Beaucidine and Xarcabard produce next to nothing. And you can't even use the "well the best stuff comes out of Beauc and Xarc" argument like you could with the relic weapons upgrade.

Keep in mind, I'm not bitching for things to be made easier (as if it matters, I was in the same boat as you guys when it came to people crying about how they couldnt beat Proms with their job), but I am bitching about the screwed up RvR. Handout? No thanks... Worth my time? Yes please. Hell I'd gladly have all the shit that pops with the Mega Bosses act as its pet and link with it regardless provided when all that shit died we got something out of the deal worth the trouble.

Actually it's perfectly right. It's supposed to be an epic undertaking, otherwise it wouldn't have any value.
Again, epic undertaking VS. you gotta be off your damn rocker old man. No-one is asking for a handout on relic weapons, but are asking so its semi-resonable to acquire. The mentality of SE regarding relics is that people will be happy to help you out and their reward for helping you will be knowing that you have this shiney toy. Really... Come on now, if you've actually tried to upgrade your relics, do you remeber all the names of people who have helped you? Do they all have a glowing smile on their face when someone mentions your name and how you're on your 3rd stage? Sorry, but SE's Visionâ„¢ of relic weapons kind of went to shit.

[PetriW]

Originally posted by Abriael
Actually it's perfectly right. It's supposed to be an epic undertaking, otherwise it wouldn't have any value.
Getting things without efforts belongs to WoW, not here. Wow, comparing dynamis fully upgraded weapon to WoW is something I didn't think I'd see.
Seriously, sit down and count how many dynamis runs you need to make ONE weapon. Then take that and multiply it by however many you bring along when you do dynamis.

That's how long it takes to make ONE weapon. It's not one person doing those runs, it's all the people doing a collective effort.

[Abriael]

Not having a relic weapon sure doesn't ruin anyone's fun in the game (exactly like not having some other extremely high end equipment like Maat's cap for instance).
If one wants a fully upgraded relic he has to be ready to undertake an extremely long, costly and difficult mission, otherwise he can aim his efforts to something else.
The whole charm of relic weapons is that there is maybe 2 or 3 fully upgraded ones for server, the more there will be, the less they will be valuable.

[Jei]

I think so. Relic weapons are fine the way they are. You don't have to try to get it if you got upset by the process you have to go through. The insane amount of work needed to get one done is the reason why ppl making such a big deal when someone claims they obtain their relics and I really think that's the way it should be: special, very few, very rare. It's truely a trial of hardcoreship and patience.

The "asking so its semi-resonable to acquire" sounds pointless to me since there's already someone running around with fully upgraded weapons already. And they had to go through the same process too, no short cut, nothing.

[Teffie]

I always thought that they should make the final bosses of all the Dynamis areas drop 1 Piece of Random Relic Armor 100%. Sort of like a guarantee for your money?

Sometimes you spend 1 mil, clear out the entire zone along with repops, and get not a single piece of Relic Armor. It's happened to me around 8 times, thats 8 mil down the drain with not even a single piece of relic armor. :(

Dynamis Lord drops the Lungo-Nango Jadeshell 100% doesn't he? You would think that the other 5 bosses (Tzee Xicu Idol, Gu'Dha Effigy, Goblin Golem, Overlord's Tombstone, and Angra Mainyu) would have 100% drop on a piece of relic armor or 100 currency too...


apart from that, I think the rest of the drop rates are perfectly fine the way they are.

[Kiyone]

A drop from Dynamis Lord is not a guarentee. Midgard's only Xarcabard-Interlopers got nothing as a drop, if I recall correctly.

[Faranim]

I think that making the boss drop a 100-coin and an AF2 100% would be a nice change.

The droprates themselves from other monsters don't need to be changed... there's enough monsters that it's pretty easy to get AF2 and Currency to drop. You just need to use your Thieves and TH properly.

[truenoir]

Well, having the *right* AF2 drop would be nice though.

Not 2x MNK drop out of 4 pieces on the run...for the one MNK present that already has it :/

My opinion is more that in 6 months or so of doing Dynamis you should be able to get 3/5+ AF2 for any job, for all of your LS. There's a challenge, and there's a timesink. FFXI needs more of the former, less of the latter. I'd rather have a ton of attainable stuff to try for than one or two nigh-impossible things to get. It's the difference to me between a fun and busy night of FFXI and logging off considering how pointless and stupid the game really is >_>

[kuu]

It's an epic undertaking to make 1 weapon, that's simply not right.

OMG no, have you seen what a fully upgraded relic bow can do???

Especially on a Sam/rng

Namas Arrow-> Namas Arrow-> light-> Namas Arrow->light ->Namas Arrow -> light -> Namas Arrow -> light

[Faranim]

Actually, because the Relic Bow itself gives Namas Arrow, you don't need to sub RNG to use it.

So you could be SAM/NIN or SAM/WAR and still fire Namas Arrow. You wouldn't have any other ranged WS though.

It does less damage than most other WS available at 75 (A SAM can do way more damage with their Tachi Techniques), so it's mainly used to duplicated a Light Skillchain to allow for double magic bursts.

[Ara]

They got a 100 peice Kiy.

[Baramunk]

So far in the Dynamis runs I've done, I've never seen more than one 100 currency drop. But I've only been going for a couple of months so maybe we've just had bad luck. I saw earlier in the OP he said on average 100-400 currency drops in the 4 cities. Being generous lets say theres an average of 300 currency dropped on every single dynamis run no matter the area. The total currency needed to upgrade just one weapon(lets take Relic Bow as an example) is 27,000. You can go 2x a week, so an average of 600 per week. 2400 a month. That means, that assuming one single person got all of the currency it would take him/her more than 11 months to obtain enough. So lets round it off to one year. You have 50-60 members..... Uhhh lol. If you actually wanted to get all of your members a relic weapon fully upgraded it would take quite a few decades of commitment. That's obviously obscene. Now I know these are meant to be unique, and rare, very few people should be able to obtain them. But that doesn't take away from the fact that out of a LS of 50+ people it's going to take 1 whole year of commitment to get just ONE person their upgrade.

I know there are a lot of other factors that come into this, the drop rates are always changing, and you can buy currency from others substationally decreasing the time it takes. But I mean come on, Dynamis has been out what, a year now at least? And there are only two known people across ALL servers who have this. ALL servers. I can understand just a couple people on each server having this, but man... thats just stupid lol

[Kiyone]

Originally posted by Baramunk
So far in the Dynamis runs I've done, I've never seen more than one 100 currency drop. But I've only been going for a couple of months so maybe we've just had bad luck. I saw earlier in the OP he said on average 100-400 currency drops in the 4 cities. Being generous lets say theres an average of 300 currency dropped on every single dynamis run no matter the area. The total currency needed to upgrade just one weapon(lets take Relic Bow as an example) is 27,000. You can go 2x a week, so an average of 600 per week. 2400 a month. That means, that assuming one single person got all of the currency it would take him/her more than 11 months to obtain enough. So lets round it off to one year. You have 50-60 members..... Uhhh lol. If you actually wanted to get all of your members a relic weapon fully upgraded it would take quite a few decades of commitment. That's obviously obscene. Now I know these are meant to be unique, and rare, very few people should be able to obtain them. But that doesn't take away from the fact that out of a LS of 50+ people it's going to take 1 whole year of commitment to get just ONE person their upgrade.

I know there are a lot of other factors that come into this, the drop rates are always changing, and you can buy currency from others substationally decreasing the time it takes. But I mean come on, Dynamis has been out what, a year now at least? And there are only two known people across ALL servers who have this. ALL servers. I can understand just a couple people on each server having this, but man... thats just stupid lol


I think it has more to do with a lack of ambition than anything else. That and groups of people who currently hold currency aren't willing to sell/share. i.e. everyone wants to hold onto it for that possibility of needing it later, which also stalls other who are actively seeking currency.

So, though there is enough currency around for a dozen or more relic weapons per server, it's not flowing enough to make it happen. People who want to upgrade aren't willing to pay (or can't) what people who hold currency want. I know I have some whiteshells that i have held for at least 4 months, and though people are shouting to buy them, I still don't sell them...

What you average in drops depends mostly on the amount of people you go with. Naturally, more people can clear more mobs, and thus more currency. From my experience, 50 or so people in one of the 4 cities can produce over 400 currency per run, sans Jeuno, and even then.

Another factor is that a number of groups stop going or rarely go back to the 4 cities after opening the northlands, the most common reason is that no one needs to clear the 4 cities anymore, and people are more interested in northlands relic. However, the northlands drop a fickle amount of currency.

Either way, I feel the biggest reason for lack of relic weapon upgrades is a lack of people willing to sell currency, more than a lack of currency as a whole.

[Fire]

I agree with Kiy that theres not enough people selling. In my opinion, if your not willing to buy currency then you don't want to upgrade bad enough and should quit wasting your linkshells time and all our time posting about how unfair it is. It's fine the way it is.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Fire
I agree with Kiy that theres not enough people selling. In my opinion, if your not willing to buy currency then you don't want to upgrade bad enough and should quit wasting your linkshells time and all our time posting about how unfair it is. It's fine the way it is.

I also agree here. I was going to say something earlier, but since many players seem to take Level as being real experience I know I'd of gotten many saying "well you don't know" even though I'm a really good observer. Anyway I agree here with Kiy and Fire.

[Kiyone]

Originally posted by Baramunk
So far in the Dynamis runs I've done, I've never seen more than one 100 currency drop. But I've only been going for a couple of months so maybe we've just had bad luck. I saw earlier in the OP he said on average 100-400 currency drops in the 4 cities. Being generous lets say theres an average of 300 currency dropped on every single dynamis run no matter the area. The total currency needed to upgrade just one weapon(lets take Relic Bow as an example) is 27,000. You can go 2x a week, so an average of 600 per week. 2400 a month. That means, that assuming one single person got all of the currency it would take him/her more than 11 months to obtain enough. So lets round it off to one year. You have 50-60 members..... Uhhh lol. If you actually wanted to get all of your members a relic weapon fully upgraded it would take quite a few decades of commitment. That's obviously obscene. Now I know these are meant to be unique, and rare, very few people should be able to obtain them. But that doesn't take away from the fact that out of a LS of 50+ people it's going to take 1 whole year of commitment to get just ONE person their upgrade.

I know there are a lot of other factors that come into this, the drop rates are always changing, and you can buy currency from others substationally decreasing the time it takes. But I mean come on, Dynamis has been out what, a year now at least? And there are only two known people across ALL servers who have this. ALL servers. I can understand just a couple people on each server having this, but man... thats just stupid lol



By the way, adding it up, suggesting the most expensive tracks:

500 currency for 1st upgrade
1600 currency for 2nd upgrade
6200 currency for 3rd upgrade and
10000 currency for final upgrade totals to

18,300 currency total. :3

[Mik]

I don't think it would be such a bad thing if more ways were introduced to get dynamis currency. Some possibilities could be trade dynamis drops to an npc for a small amount of currency, buy currency from an npc, or add a small amount of currency drops to all enms. Even just one of those additions would make obtaining a fully powered relic weapon more reasonable while still keeping it a long and expensive process.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Mik
I don't think it would be such a bad thing if more ways were introduced to get dynamis currency. Some possibilities could be trade dynamis drops to an npc for a small amount of currency, buy currency from an npc, or add a small amount of currency drops to all enms. Even just one of those additions would make obtaining a fully powered relic weapon more reasonable while still keeping it a long and expensive process.

Uhh, ENMs are not exactly expensive. I think in terms of buying the currency you then bring the relic weapons into a field were gil sellers and gil buyers can take advantage of. I guess exchanging dynamis items for currency is reasonable, but again problem is lot of the dynamis items are also craftable and again bringing potential for gil sellers and gil buyers to control.

[TabanDarkmoon]

I don't really think it's the fact that people are hording and saving currency "in case they need it". It's that multiple people are trying to upgrade their weapons, so they all hit a bottleneck. There are probably 7-8 people trying to upgrade their relic weapon in my LS alone. We buy up pretty much all of the currency that drops each run my dynamis LS goes on. That currency isn't being horded, but since it's spread out so much it's hard for any of us to make it past stage 2-3. I imagine there's a lot of LS's that are in the same place as us, we just can't generate enough currency.

[Macht]

Originally posted by TabanDarkmoon
I don't really think it's the fact that people are hording and saving currency "in case they need it". It's that multiple people are trying to upgrade their weapons, so they all hit a bottleneck. There are probably 7-8 people trying to upgrade their relic weapon in my LS alone. We buy up pretty much all of the currency that drops each run my dynamis LS goes on. That currency isn't being horded, but since it's spread out so much it's hard for any of us to make it past stage 2-3. I imagine there's a lot of LS's that are in the same place as us, we just can't generate enough currency.

I don't know, if you go with what Baramunk says and with his 'generous' calculations on currency made then in 1 year. 1 group doing 1 Dynamis will make 31,800 currency. That's only 1 group, to cover the cost for 50 people would then mean you need 29 times that amount.

Yeah sure if 1 group keeps all the drops then it'll take approx. 30 weeks to get 1 relic weapon. If 29 groups are all pitching in then you get 29 relic weapons in that same time. The math itself says there should be more relic weapons if other groups were selling their currency.

EDIT:

Go with Kiy's calculation and 1 group should be able to produce 1 relic weapon in 23 weeks. So say with 30 Dynamis LS, in a year should be 60 relic weapons. Which does leave them to be unique enough these weapons are basically the final ones. Seems only right that the released amount is were it is.

[Baramunk]

Weird... I don't know how I miscalculated that so badly... It's 400+1500+6100+10000 for the Bow, no idea how I got 27,000. Even with having to buy behemoth horn, thats too steep. Anyways, I think that was a good point to bring up, how its not lack of currency, its just too spread out. But isn't that a problem in and of itself? I mean if, say(taking my own LS as an example), ~8-10 people truly want to do the relic upgrade, they're not going to give up any currency to the others at any point. Which pretty much means that no one will have the relic upgraded until ~5 or so people are all able to, which will take a huge amount of time. Some people are lucky enough to be able to pay for a dynamis run and therefore lot the currency(If I remember correctly thats how the person who got the bow done, did it - doing a lot of dynamis runs and lotting all the currency), but not everyone is that popular no matter how good of a person they are. And I mean, what do people define in terms of length, as a difficult task? 3 months? 5? 8? There's a point where it simply becomes a timesink, even for an MMORPG like FFXI. There's a difference between being dedicated and obsessed. I'm still a believer that it's not right for Dynamis to have been out a year or so and for only a few people to have full relic done across all servers.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Baramunk
Weird... I don't know how I miscalculated that so badly... It's 400+1500+6100+10000 for the Bow, no idea how I got 27,000. Even with having to buy behemoth horn, thats too steep. Anyways, I think that was a good point to bring up, how its not lack of currency, its just too spread out. But isn't that a problem in and of itself? I mean if, say(taking my own LS as an example), ~8-10 people truly want to do the relic upgrade, they're not going to give up any currency to the others at any point. Which pretty much means that no one will have the relic upgraded until ~5 or so people are all able to, which will take a huge amount of time. Some people are lucky enough to be able to pay for a dynamis run and therefore lot the currency(If I remember correctly thats how the person who got the bow done, did it - doing a lot of dynamis runs and lotting all the currency), but not everyone is that popular no matter how good of a person they are. And I mean, what do people define in terms of length, as a difficult task? 3 months? 5? 8? There's a point where it simply becomes a timesink, even for an MMORPG like FFXI. There's a difference between being dedicated and obsessed. I'm still a believer that it's not right for Dynamis to have been out a year or so and for only a few people to have full relic done across all servers.

Well look at it this way. Once you start getting people with these fully upgraded, each run they go on is a person not needing that currency. Eventually it becomes a money source for them and the currency they sell off starts to filter through and people get the fully upgraded faster.

If they do make an adjustment it's only going to be very temporary. Because this currency only has 1 major use after that it's more profitable to sell this currency to get actual gil. All I'm stating is this in an MMORPG, in MMORPG terms the fully upgraded relic weapons are still fairly new, the more people that start to end up with then chance there will be more getting them faster.

So the setup SE did now I would say is in anticipation of that to try and keep the full upgrade a unique thing.

[reinheartzero]

Not the types of replies I was really expecting... Just wanted to see if anyone will try experimenting if SE will reply to our mails after so many sending regarding one issue.... oh well... :sweat: