Economy is Bad? [Archive] - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel

Macht

04-18-2005, 12:39 PM

Well depends on how you look at it. The prices on things have gone up a lot yes, but much of it is also items that you can farm from lv. 1.

On many servers silk thread is now at 20-24k when they use to barely sell for 10k when I started. Many crystals are nearing 10k in price and ones that use to be 500 gil are at 1k with some players trying to push it to 2k.

At this rate it almost seems like some LS (Crafting associations) may end up starting to be formed to try and battle down some of these crazy prices. The group generally effected the most with these prices are crafters, the price to make an item and that items sale value are so skewed that you end up loosing a lot more money then you ever gain.

Some of the problems is crafters hurting themselves. As an example on my server to craft a mythril sword all the ingredients will cost you around 50k to make just 1 sword, but that 1 sword will only sell for 10k-15k. Even when you get a +1 version it only sells for 40k, so the value on this item has become terrible. You also have a lot of alchemy items were the alchemist just shoot their own feet, They've been selling Ether and Hi-Ether at the exact same price even though the Hi-Ether is costing them more to make.

Anyway it basically boils down to if you're planning to take a craft be prepared to loose a LOT more then you would of before and still not sure of the reward at the end Goldsmithing seems to be getting me nowere so far 4 mil in it at 70 and still haven't seen anything that'll give me back money that I could of gotten faster just farming.

15026

04-19-2005, 05:15 AM

Is the economy realy bad? What I want to know is, when I was in the game befor I would have to spen houres on houres making money if I need somthing new, will I have to spend Day on Days now? and when I left they just added the expantion Pack and lvl 20 stuff was selling for more then my lvl 50 stuff is it still like that? I would like to try a new Job but I don't want to have to play the game 24/7 to get anywhere in it ( I am planing on getting a fulltime job too)

Thx for all the help, Hope to see you in game

Aliria

04-19-2005, 06:51 AM

I'm still depress about the spell cost for my RDM... Phalanx, Dispel, Refresh, Stoneskin.... *sigh*:(

15026

04-19-2005, 06:54 AM

I have/Had all of them :cool: and I was just started in getting my AF So I would like to go back I know some people that are going back but I don't want to have to work for weeks just so I can buy food to Xp a bit/ or for that 1 spell I still need or what ever.

is it still as hard to make money in the game now?

Aliria

04-19-2005, 07:10 AM

Well i find it hard cause i have rarely the time to kill monsters just to get items for sale or do other things to make money. since i rarely long I really like when i can just play and not bother after the money all the time... Especially since the mobs drops have been cut down because to many people farm great qantities of monsters.

LionhartPLD

04-19-2005, 07:41 AM

it's like germany Post-WW1

neighbortaru

04-19-2005, 08:10 AM

fire crystals go for 5-8k a stack
earth crystals 800-1k
silk thread 17-20k
beehive chips 6-8k

astral rings 700-800k
leaping boots 800-1000k
meat mithkabobs 5-6k

some prices off the top of my head ('bout a month old).

little ninja

04-19-2005, 08:32 AM

my g/f noticed something odd the other night, it will cost her 51k to make a weapon that isnt even 9k. so yeah the prices are all messed up nowadays. dont forget beastmen blood went from 15k to 21k. now over 41k.

really i been everywhere for silk thread, those are just plain horrid drops. sometimes i feel like the silk is a rare piece of armor or something, as for prices, i dont think we will ever see normal again unless we migrate to a new world.

Macht

04-19-2005, 08:36 AM

Yeah, price ranges between certain things have taken huge seperations from eachother. Even though everything has gone up in price (well not everything but select things).

It depends on what item you go for, some items have increased from being 200k to 800k and some from 200k even went to 2 mil.

The prices have gone a bit haywire, which is a good and bad. If you pick and choose right you can make a lot of money fairly quickly. However if the item you are going for is one of the ones shooting up so fast then almost everytime you get close to having the money for it, it'll probably increase again and be out of your range (Happened to me 6 times on 1 stupid item, I was so pissed everytime I thought I'd have it and when I go to buy I see it's increased out of the gil range I had).

Originally posted by little ninja
my g/f noticed something odd the other night, it will cost her 51k to make a weapon that isnt even 9k. so yeah the prices are all messed up nowadays. dont forget beastmen blood went from 15k to 21k. now over 41k.

really i been everywhere for silk thread, those are just plain horrid drops. sometimes i feel like the silk is a rare piece of armor or something, as for prices, i dont think we will ever see normal again unless we migrate to a new world.

Nah, price spikes and falls are determined a lot by players. Just as their are players raising the prices to get something at a higher price there are also players seeking to get an item at a cheaper price.

All it takes is someone introducing that same overpriced item at a lower price for an extended period of time. That's why you see weapons and such going so cheap but the ingredients increasing to crazy prices. You have crafters working to raise their level fast so they buy ingredients so the ingredients are now increasing a LOT in price, but now all these crafters have tons off the same item they are all trying to sell and not as many people wanting them.

End result of that is the crafter to sell their item the cheapest free's up their inventory first so they can craft more again. Downfall to this is they unknowningly are destroying the money gain they could of gotten on higher items trying to take such a fast route instead of taking it slowly.

The MMORPGs their designs try to allow for free action but when you have people obsessing and powerleveling is cause a lot of artifcal inflations and deflations, it skewers values and worths of many things (This includes job combinations). You try to powerlevel and you start choosing to be exclusive on the parties you want and they must maintain for a certain length of time, this ends up causing bottlenecks and you see more sitting and waiting for parties.

Same with items, the more of the same item various people are trying to get and they are buying them out faster then stock can be kept of them then the more that items prices is going to raise and the opposite of it true too. The more of a certain item players have that they can't get sold they start dropping their prices causing the deflation.

Right now there's a lot of these artifical inflations and deflations because it seems there are many more players trying to raise their skill in a craft. It doesn't help much either when you have players not crafting but taking all the crafting items from the guild shops and selling at higher prices in the AH.

Thark601

04-19-2005, 10:17 AM

It's all about the server really, and everywhere there has been inflation, doesn't the real world do that too? Honestly it's not like it's impossible to deal with tho, cause it's not just the high end or leet eq that's raising in price, it's also items crafters use, which for the most part is items people would farm. Meaning yes you have to pay more for that item, but you can get the money easier.

Jei

04-19-2005, 12:04 PM

demand-supply really. For example bee hive chips just gone up to 10k/stack on my server last week, down to 0-2 stacks in AH at any given time. Then, there has been a mass bee-killer farming bees everywhere (including myself -.-) and last night, there were at least 70 stacks of em up on the AH.

And the price drops to 6k....

Macht

04-19-2005, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Jei
demand-supply really. For example bee hive chips just gone up to 10k/stack on my server last week, down to 0-2 stacks in AH at any given time. Then, there has been a mass bee-killer farming bees everywhere (including myself -.-) and last night, there were at least 70 stacks of em up on the AH.

And the price drops to 6k....

Now if only that was true on my server. Beehive Chips, Crystals/Clusters, Rabbit Hides, Bat Wings, Mythril Ingot, etc... have been at 0-2 stack and at 100 stacks and still the prices don't change on them.

Kailo

04-19-2005, 02:03 PM

It might just be my server, but to me, it seems that while yes, I do tend to pay more than I normally would for the same items, I can also make more money than I normally would off of items as well. And now that I take a moment to think more logically about it, it makes sense, although my logic could certainly be flawed. How I see it, just like many real world economies, prices over time steadily rise to accomodate the continued addition of more money into the system (through governmental production from what I'm used to). This effect is in a sense happening in FFXI (again, my logic speaking here, which may or may not be flawed).

As more and more gil is implemented into the "system" (flow of gil between players) through various quests, monsters, and other sources, the prices for items must increase to accomodate. If a stack of Beehive Chips costs 6k at all times, even 2 or more years from now, and gil i nthe system is always increasing, then the worth of those chips will slowly decline, because more people will have more money. Thus, items begin selling for more money because people can afford them with the extra gil being implemented, and as such, they can make more from whatever items they sell. All the item's worth stays the same, just the numbers change. I understand S-E has methods of taking gil back out of the system, but maybe their methods isn't enough to maintain worth and price in one general number range. It's kind of like (from where I'm from) how you could buy a hamburger for a penny way back in the early 1900s, but today they're much more than that (that's probably a bad example, but...work with me ^^; )

Just my thoughts on the subject. It seems right in my head, but once again, my logic can be flawed here. Feel free to post any thoughts you might have, or ignore me entirely XD

kuu

04-19-2005, 02:26 PM

Not sure on that, gil flow is being actively hedged, since last update. While effects usually take a long time to see, it shouldn't increase either.

Gil flow decreases are
Resent high range items
New AH costs
New fishing system
CoP missions that require large amounts of consumables

Macht

04-19-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by kuu
Not sure on that, gil flow is being actively hedged, since last update. While effects usually take a long time to see, it shouldn't increase either.

Gil flow decreases are
Resent high range items
New AH costs
New fishing system
CoP missions that require large amounts of consumables

Exactly as much as you have of gil coming in you also having it leaving the game through foods, ammo, ninjitsu, guild points, airships, chocobo's, potions, promyvion (2k + a full recollection for an item), and various other things.

kuu

04-19-2005, 06:18 PM

Sometimes I wonder where the "Gil" is coming from.

There's the thing, while the product of money is being increased( farming/drops/ crafting).

The phyical amount of Gil isn't. You get maybe 20-40g per beastmen killed. few k's from quests, and the very rare selling to npc, etc etc.

No one really farms "actual gil" anymore. People have claimed that there is more gil floating into the system, but in essence, it's not, as it's actually products floating in, not the gil.

The equivalent of printing money is low so why is there inflatation? There should be deflation going on.

The only thing that brought gil into the system before was the fishing system which relied heavy on NPC.

I suppose it would be easier to explain if we have banks that indirectly "print money" with data tranfers, but non exist in ffxi.

So i guess there is still a stock pile of "actual gil" somewhere, or really what might happen is a crash when printed money can't not sustain prices.

Jei

04-19-2005, 06:31 PM

kuu

04-19-2005, 09:46 PM

plus, if the money really doesn't increase, gils would soon be gone from Vana'diel because we pay for chocobo?

Choco, AH fee, buying from NPC(crafting), Bazzaring in Juneo.

Anything that directly deals with NPCs will leave the system.

With the last update AH fee increase a lot. Sell a 5mil item in juneo and it's 500k. Takes alot of ronberries to fill that gap.

I don't think anyone farms 500,000GIL(not item) to offset 1 person that buys a scorp or something. So massive printed money is leaving the system.

As i said unless there is a stash of Gil somewhere(maybe gil farmers money holders that then sell to players)
then...

The market will crash somewhere. And for good or bad, it will be rough.

It's like going to buy a can of beer, and can't get money from the atm. You don't go" I'll trade you this fancy pen i picked up".
Everything will be adjusted for deflation.

poweryoga

04-19-2005, 10:31 PM

there's people doing quests that give tons of money. people starting characters over just to do those quests over again, or other similar ones that are repeatable to give a lot of gil. fishing/fishbotting brought in billions of gil. before rusty fishing nerf there was hundreds of people that made about 400-500k a day just by NPCing items. That alone is enough to generate enough gil so that people won't blink at buying a 1 mil ochido's kote.

there's enough gil in circulation to cause the inflation that it already did, i'm suprised the economy isn't too much worse off than it was before (for our server anyway).

Also, a lot of people get around the tax system in jeuno by just shouting or bazaaring the items. There's potential for that money to leave the system but not enough.

little ninja

04-19-2005, 10:33 PM

actually 2 quest i know of that are still big time money makers is the black tiger fangs quest in sandy. 3 tiger fangs for 2100, now imagine someone on a daily basis giving 4 stacks of those fangs a day. it really adds up. the other quest is in bastok. take a quadav helm to a npc an get 900 gil. it is a real common drop an you can easily make 30k. in under an hour, now take alot of players doing this. an you get the first wave.

alot of the drops i farm are better of being sold to a npc then try an get it passed off on the a.h. reraise scroll is one example. i can sell it to a npc with maxed fame an get about 1900 gil. to sell on the a.h is 2k. not counting the fee. then theres the fact i have to wait, an deal with people who undercut. so its more feesable to do it that way. an alot of other do this as well. next wave.

farm in a beastmen area. an see how much gil you get. i know giants in default tower drop over 100 gil a mob. i know places like beadaux. farming for drops also gets you gil. theres been times i walked out of beastmen areas with over 20k in gil alone. not including drops. last wave ?

the real cause of the flood was fishing. before the patch, people were botting rabao 24/7 turning rusties into items then selling them to the npc. everyone i know made millions from it. an others made insanely more. when that was fixed. botters still botted. you figure a botter was making anywhere from 10k-100k. depending on the skill, an rod. an we all know how many botters there were. i mean look at what port sandy an windy was like..... welcome to the Tsunami. this is what really caused the mass flodding of gil into the game.

kuu

04-19-2005, 10:42 PM

Well, from the look of it, there really are more money in the system. When i started playing the JP version 3 years ago, there was much less players. Having 100k gil in considered rich, and having 1million is considered very very luxury already. Nowadays with items being bought as high as 50million gil, without more money how can they sell?

Let me try to explain it, maybe someone with can point out a flaw somewhere because it is weird.

Gil is money, money is a standard product that can be used as a barter and measurement for any other product.

The value of an item is based on it's market, i.e. product meets demand.

There is nothing that relates Gil to a item, except as a unit of measurement.

you can have no Gil and still see a sniper for 500k, because the damand is worth that much.

The problem is the ABILITY to BUY it. You DON"T have enough gil, but you do have 25silks, let's say silk is 20k so 20x25 = 500k. But no one accepts the trade. So you go selling your silks, but no one buys your silks because they have DON'T have enough either.

So you're stuck with an item that is worth 500k, have the money to buy it, except no ability to buy it.

Thus the market crashes to create a new unit of measurement = deflation.

hope this answers your question of how 500k does not = having 500kgil.

Before a large amount of Gil came from fishing. Selling to NPCs. it's "creating" Gil, or printing money. Now with the new fishing system that's gone, there are only lessers amounts creating systems out there.

On the other hand

Lots of Gil is being taken out of the system.

alot of the drops i farm are better of being sold to a npc then try an get it passed off on the a.h. reraise scroll is one example. i can sell it to a npc with maxed fame an get about 1900 gil. to sell on the a.h is 2k. not counting the fee. then theres the fact i have to wait, an deal with people who undercut. so its more feesable to do it that way. an alot of other do this as well. next wav

I don't think it's enough to offset the massive gil suction system that is the AH fee. As i said, a single AH scorp buyer with it's 500k is a lot of tiger fangs.

But I could be wrong, maybe it does offset it.

LionhartPLD

04-20-2005, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Macht
[B]Exactly as much as you have of gil coming in you also having it leaving the game through foods, ammo, ninjitsuB] the money from those things just goes to the crafters who make them, they don't leave the game unless you're buying those kinds of things from NPCs.. which hopefully isn't the case.

little ninja

04-20-2005, 09:29 AM

when i farm an area. i will make between 50-75k in items, an anywhere bewtween 10-20k in gil. the items arent sold on a.h. instead sold to npcs cause the price is similar. sure i take a slight lose. but i can move the stuff extremely fast. so now you have 60-95k of new gil brought into the system.

when you think about it. the a.h price increase actually is one of the causes for items increase. people now put items up for sale, an increase the asking price to compinsate the a.h cost. cause what is it like 100gil for extra 2k price. i dont know if its that much. but you kinda get the idea.

really there isnt enough money outs. sure you have the airships, but you can do the quest an make back your money. plus if your just going back to your home point. most just sub blm an away they go. i see alot of people pass on the chobi an run to where they gotta go. so the crazy prices at times isnt helping much. you have the outpost. witch helps an hurts at the same time. sure it takes money out of the game. but it also takes airship costs out of the game, an chobi costs. to many in's, an not enough logical outs.

kuu

04-20-2005, 11:06 AM

eally there isnt enough money outs.

You do realize that the AH is taking aways 10% of everyone every day.

Let's say on a given day there is 50milion gil moved. Then everyday the server has to offset 5.5million actual gil. the extra 5 mil is from stuff like choco and dynamis, bazzar, crafting, airship.

This is compounded worse by the fact that prices are raising and not falling. There is higher AH fee and deflation when it crashes.

little ninja

04-20-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by kuu
You do realize that the AH is taking aways 10% of everyone every day.

Let's say on a given day there is 50milion gil moved. Then everyday the server has to offset 5.5million actual gil. the extra 5 mil is from stuff like choco and dynamis, bazzar, crafting, airship.

This is compounded worse by the fact that prices are raising and not falling. There is higher AH fee and deflation when it crashes.

really people dont use the auction house anymore. to sell the big name things, sure some still do, but not like they did prior to the patch. mostly now its small itesm up for sale. an i highly doubt the couple hundred gil it costs to put them up to sale is a good drain. the lack of speedbelts, an rarity of the e bow up for sale proves this. alot of items are now being sold by bazaar. or shouts. i hear it all the time."who needs this", or "i need this" its alot more common now then a few months back.

then again while the a.h drains 10k from player A. player B has just introduced 70k into the game. dynamis is usually a group invested thing. most trips if i want to lot i have to pay. then again what i pay to go into dynamis is freshly introduced gil. i wouldnt be surprised if other players did this as well. airship isnt used much when you look at it. an then again you have the passanger quest. so to ride from bastok to jeuno you actually make money.
as for chobi i dont ride them much anymore. no need to with outpost warping. an most times then not. along the way to whereever i go i kill beastmen. so i basically end up at evan.

if your not going to blame the rusty invasion, or the fish bot craze for the last year. an you dont think ige 's gil farmers are the prob. maybe its the simple reason ige made gil simple to afford an get. cause to be honest if people had to spend the large amount of time farming. i dont think these prices would be were they are. because the players would be hesitant to pay out 1.9mil for a pair of kotes. but what the hell they dont care right. they spent 400 dollars for 15mil gil, an when it runs out. they can do it again.

CarbonFibre

04-20-2005, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by little ninja
if your not going to blame the rusty invasion, or the fish bot craze for the last year. an you dont think ige 's gil farmers are the prob. maybe its the simple reason ige made gil simple to afford an get. cause to be honest if people had to spend the large amount of time farming. i dont think these prices would be were they are. because the players would be hesitant to pay out 1.9mil for a pair of kotes. but what the hell they dont care right. they spent 400 dollars for 15mil gil, an when it runs out. they can do it again.
Yeah, this is why the idea of deflation doesn't work. In a normal economy, prices can only rise so high before they must go back down or level off because there will only be so many buyers willing to pay that high price. As price goes up demand goes down and vise versa. In FFXI, if you can't afford something at the price it's at, a lot of people just buy gil so they can get it. That's awful because it destroys the economy and hurts even more the people who still play legitimately.

poweryoga

04-20-2005, 04:14 PM

you fail to see buying gil doesn't create more gil in the economy, it just circulates it. Most gil seller items are NOT quest based.

Fish bots on the other hand do create a lot more income if the fish are NPCed.

there's only a few way money enters the system.

1) Quests
2) Rank Missions
3) NPCing items.

everything else is circulation.

kuu

04-20-2005, 04:43 PM

ally people dont use the auction house anymore. to sell the big name things, sure some still do, but not like they did prior to the patch. mostly now its small itesm up for sale. an i highly doubt the couple hundred gil it costs to put them up to sale is a good drain. the lack of speedbelts, an rarity of the e bow up for sale proves this. alot of items are now being sold by bazaar. or shouts. i hear it all the time."who needs this", or "i need this" its alot more common now then a few months back.

Your server maybe different from my server but, I don't see that much of a change. Sure really big items do go off AH, but a good amount of it stays in AH.

I see maybe 10 snipers selled a day, 10-20 archers. 2-3 heub, 2-3 scorps, a few ebows, peacocks., etc etc.

You can't say no one does it or it only effects high end items. 10% is taken from everyone that uses the AH.

Low end items matter just as much
300 food sold a day at 10k = 3mil which of 10% = 300k leaves the system.
from that 300 food, assuming they make 1k profit, 300food ingredients x9k = 2.7mil and another 270k is left the system.

Every hand in the AH at every stage is a 10% and it adds up.

The really big gil print was in the fishing system. and the new fishing system that changed 90% of fishes are now npc as sell prices as so low to npc now.

So yea there is going to be a "boom" deflation unless my estimates are all wrong

little ninja

04-20-2005, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by poweryoga
you fail to see buying gil doesn't create more gil in the economy, it just circulates it. Most gil seller items are NOT quest based.

Fish bots on the other hand do create a lot more income if the fish are NPCed.

there's only a few way money enters the system.

1) Quests
2) Rank Missions
3) NPCing items.

everything else is circulation.

no it doesnt create more money. i never said that. i said it eliminates the time a player would have to get an item. thus the prices dont steadly come down. then another player goes this route . til eventually its sellers begin to raise the prices. with nobody legitly farming for there gear anymore. you will never see stead decline of the items.

in not the quests that bring in the money. its more or less the repeatable quests. such as tiger fang quest, an the quadav helm quest.

you also forgot mob dropped gil. over time it really adds up,

Jei

04-20-2005, 05:05 PM

gil drops and chest hunts yea... reminds me of myself long ago :sweat: definitely not a huge amount but they add up. I used to make 60-80k a day farming keys and open chest in davoi without putting any items on AH.

poweryoga

04-20-2005, 08:12 PM

post wasn't directed at you little ninja, its for people that think "oh if I sell stuff on the AH i bring money into the economy"; it doesn't.

i forgot about gil dropped by mobs and opening coffers, but the main point was that the gil gets circulated, not created when you put something on the AH.

little ninja

04-20-2005, 10:42 PM

lol kuu you make a good point til players like myself enter the pic. i have 2 farming days tuesdays an thursdays. on one of those days i will average about 100k to 250k in gil an items. the sad part is i dont put it up on the a.h. so thats alot of new gil put into the system. i trust me when i say i know im not the only one that does this. also point out the certain repeatable quests others do for gil. x's how many do this a day. an you basically have the a.h an its fee being poured right back intot he system..

theres a mathmatical flaw to your numbers. an that is it dont matter what a player bought the item for. it depends on how much the seller put it up for. but your numbers rounded up make a very solid point. but truth is we wont ever really know exact totals left out of the system. each day

an while on the subject of the a.h. isnt the jeuno a.h price tax higher then the other 3 cities. i know prior to the patch it was. or it felt like it was. but then this would change your numbers even more.

i dont see e bows selling in the a.h as much as i used to prior to the patch. same with the peakcock charm, or speed belt / sonic belt. i can figure the body armor such as haub, an s.h would. but then again ive heard alot more shouts from the crafters getting rid of them without going through the a.h, or jeunos bazaar tax.

curious on this, lets say ige has 900 mil gil. now they dont sell it for a month. dont craft with it, dont spend any of it other then to sell drops. then all of a sudden sell 15 mil to numerous players. wouldnt this techincally be considered a flood of new gil into the market ??? cause if you have gil an hord it, your not introducing it into the economy. basically it does nothing except stays dorment.

little ninja

04-20-2005, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by poweryoga
post wasn't directed at you little ninja, its for people that think "oh if I sell stuff on the AH i bring money into the economy"; it doesn't.

i forgot about gil dropped by mobs and opening coffers, but the main point was that the gil gets circulated, not created when you put something on the AH.

" you fail to see" made me think that maybe it might have been directed towards me, or possibly someone else.

no offense taken.. :thumbsup:

kuu

04-21-2005, 12:21 AM

lol kuu you make a good point til players like myself enter the pic. i have 2 farming days tuesdays an thursdays. on one of those days i will average about 100k to 250k in gil an items. the sad part is i dont put it up on the a.h. so thats alot of new gil put into the system. i trust me when i say i know im not the only one that does this. also point out the certain repeatable quests others do for gil. x's how many do this a day. an you basically have the a.h an its fee being poured right back intot he system..

Possibly. As you said I don't have real number, unless i do survey on the AH, which anyone is inclined to do.

There is a problem in your offset numbers as well though.

Farming monsters for quest rewards, coffers, beastmen(monsters don't drop gil, only beastmen) is LIMITED by spawn rate.

I give 2 maybe even 5 people can spawn 100k in fangs,
and the same with coffers, where sometimes it's items, sometimes it's gil + a 30 min respawn rate.

Off the top of my head if there is really a mass genocide of rewardable monsters + chest/coffer(rare) printing gil, you can maybe punch in 5 maybe 8 mil of printed gil per server.

On the other hand AH is perhaps the exact opposite. It is compounded by more people, adn the faster people are. Say you make shihei, going into the basics, first you buy nebu(no one buys it from NPC) -> then you buy logs(rarely can you buy from npc) -> again repeat, till the final product of shihei which you sell in juneo again.

While there are a portion of people that farm their own and craft, most just buy from AHs.

btw i have check the update and found out my numbers are indeed wrong, i've been throwing out 10% when in reality it's only 2% per single item and 1% per stack. 5mil = 5000k x .02=100k.

So I admit my inflation of numbers, but it's still a sizable chunk as making a scorp = vem claw which would be brought off AH again another 100k or so drained.

Maybe it does offset it...maybe not, there is a lot of printed gil taken out of the AH, everything from cystals to SH at every stage is drained.

And I run pass glaicers every other day, maybe 10% I see tiger farmers.

kaply

04-27-2005, 12:39 PM

So, let me see if I can sum this up for people who are wondering how the economy would affect them as it currently stands vs. how they were before.

If you were used to farming crafting goods, you'll still spend the same amount of time as you did before you left. Price of crafting goods has gone up and at the same time, the price of crafted products has gone up.

If you were used to farming drops to sell to vendors, you'll be spending MORE time farming than before you left. Since price of vended goods remained the same but price of crafted products has gone up (2 assumptions, you want the crafted products, and there are no new areas with drops that sell better than you were able to get to before).

So, in essence, nothing's changed -.-

kuu

04-30-2005, 03:52 PM

No Lots of things have changed.

1: less items are used to NPC(newfishing system, etc), and thus funneled back into the system
2: more consumables
3: Lots of gil is being sucked away via AH fee

Lots of things have changed, but yet prices still increase.

Thus my hypothesis is:

something will go boom, because it's an unbalanced market.

Did you actually read the posts...? like the important difference of Gil making as opposed to Gil redistributing.

poweryoga

04-30-2005, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by kaply
So, let me see if I can sum this up for people who are wondering how the economy would affect them as it currently stands vs. how they were before.

If you were used to farming crafting goods, you'll still spend the same amount of time as you did before you left. Price of crafting goods has gone up and at the same time, the price of crafted products has gone up.

If you were used to farming drops to sell to vendors, you'll be spending MORE time farming than before you left. Since price of vended goods remained the same but price of crafted products has gone up (2 assumptions, you want the crafted products, and there are no new areas with drops that sell better than you were able to get to before).

So, in essence, nothing's changed -.-

did you even read the posts? Putting up anything on AH doesn't increase the gil supply. If anything, it decreases it due to the AH fee. you CIRCULATE the gil, from one person to another.

Farming drops to sell to vendors is bad farming and and even bigger waste of time, and if you have anything worth selling, you won't sell it to the npc anyways, because somebody will buy it. It doesn't matter if you craft it, put it on the AH, give it to a friend to HQ.... IT DOESN'T INTRODUCE MORE GIL INTO THE ECONOMY UNLESS YOU NPC IT. if you buy something from the NPC, gil LEAVES the system.

read the posts before posting weird statements like that please.

My guess on the current gil inflation is that there's is still a lot of gil being introduced via monster NPC items (stuff like thunder IV that get npced regularly) or some other gil source. Gil is leaving the system faster than the sinks are providing and thus bringing inflation up.

Its pretty logical.

little ninja

05-01-2005, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by poweryoga
Farming drops to sell to vendors is bad farming and and even bigger waste of time, and if you have anything worth selling,

actually i make more money selling to vendors then i do to the a.h. reraise scrolls are 1953 or somewhere close to that number from the vendor, the auction house it sells for 2k. thats not adding in the auction house price. so basically im losing what. 20gil..
another thing i farm that i sell to a vendor is mauls. ruffly about 2400. on the a.h you may find them for anywhere between 3k. so now average in the a.h sales tax, im only really losing about 400gil? another thing im doing is cutting out the time it takes to sell. like a thf. i steal from the mobs, an then i pawn it as soon as possible.

so please point out the waste in time. an how exactly is this bad farming. i mean this system i do nets me almost 100k every 2 hrs or so.

actually if gil was leaving the system as much as you say it is. then ultimately the prices will slowly decline. cause players wont have the money, however this is not the case. nor sadly it never will. you guys forget 1 factor we can not leave out. IGE dorment gil. or actually any other of these other gaming sites gil. what happens when a player wants a haub, an cant afford it, or is 2 lazy to farm for it. he goes an buys 15mil gil, thus once non exsistant gil. is now circulated into the economy. so if ten people come to this point ingame. an all go the same route. 150mil is now brought back into circulation..

players A-X tradeing around 300mil gil. now players Y an Z sells gil to 10 players through A-X. now your looking at 450 mil into the trading system. then the 300mil it once was.