How to calculate accuracy?

[bigbig1982]

So I'm just wondering if its better a +15% accuracy food or a +15 one, but I cannot get it if I dont know my base accuracy. Is there any way to calculate it?

[Pai Pai Master]

Moved to Most Frequently Asked Questions forum.

[iglak]

accuracy = weapon skill lvl + (DEX/2) (plus starting accuracy. what you have when you have 0 dex and 0 skill)

this assumes that weapon skill level adds to accuracy in the same way it adds to attack. this also assumes that DEX acts on accuracy in the same way STR acts on attack and VIT acts on DEF

[Mithrael]

There are two misconceptions here.

1.) DEX/2 is not an accurate equation for accuracy. I don't feel like digging up the interview or the countless other posts on this forum or other forums with genuine parses that prove this to not be true, but that this has been covered. DEX->Acc and AGI->Racc are non-linear relationships.

2.) Accuracy+15% does not mean you figure out what your quantifiable accuracy number is (say... 100+52) then multiply by 1.15. It means you hit the mob ~15% more often, until you hit the cap. So if you normally hit for 60%, eating accuracy+15% food means you'll hit roughly 75% of the time. It never quite works out that perfectly, but that's the jist of it.

Unless you were perhaps lv.1, accuracy+15% should always yield greater results than accuracy+15.

[Balfree]

square should clarify this once and for all

i mean, when i buy a game i can tolerate that there are hidden secrets like hidden weapons and hidden areas, but not clarifiying what the info on your stats means is too much, thats like allowing you to write, but not allowing you to learn how to -.-

[iglak]

Originally posted by Mithrael
1.) DEX/2 is not an accurate equation for accuracy. I don't feel like digging up the interview or the countless other posts on this forum or other forums with genuine parses that prove this to not be true, but that this has been covered. DEX->Acc and AGI->Racc are non-linear relationships.

2.) Accuracy+15% does not mean you figure out what your quantifiable accuracy number is (say... 100+52) then multiply by 1.15. It means you hit the mob ~15% more often, until you hit the cap. So if you normally hit for 60%, eating accuracy+15% food means you'll hit roughly 75% of the time. It never quite works out that perfectly, but that's the jist of it.
1) as far as i know, this is unknown. the interview only says it's more beneficial to raise accuracy by raising it directly, not that DEX-> acc isn't a linear relationship. and since the formula of acc stat -> hit % is, to my knowledge, unknown, as well as the effects of DEX on hit %(independant of accuracy stat), i don't believe this has been proven, or even come close to it.

2) that would explain how they got the information.... i was wondering how they could identify the effects of the food as accuracy + 15% without knowing the formulas for accuracy.
but, how do you know? can you point us to where this is stated?

[Alontier]

Mithrael is correct in both regards.
This was listed in the latest official guide Vana'diel World Report (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4757513429/elemen-22/ref%3Dnosim/249-7795348-2450709).
Very nice and detailed list of food and effects etc in this 700 page brick (http://ff11-photo.dynsite.net/joyfulyy/img/16577_1.jpg).

[Centurion]

Originally posted by Alontier
Mithrael is correct in both regards.
This was listed in the latest official guide Vana'diel World Report (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4757513429/elemen-22/ref%3Dnosim/249-7795348-2450709).
Very nice and detailed list of food and effects etc in this 700 page brick (http://ff11-photo.dynsite.net/joyfulyy/img/16577_1.jpg).

:eek:
I never knew a resource like this existed, is there an English version available, or in the works?

[Mithrael]

1.) I won't bother because it can never be "proven." There has been plenty of work to demonstrate that DEX does not have a 2:1 relationship to accuracy. There is great difficult in proving anything with a random component though. For example, adding dex increases your critical rate. Since critical attacks can never miss, your accuracy is increased through a side channel. In any case, your formula, whether the dex part is right or not is extremely suspect. Another reason for this is that each point of weapon proficiency adds something closer to .7 accuracy instead of 1. again, you can dig up the posts if you want more confirmation of this.

2.) I parse all of my exp and merit parties. it's very clear when you parse yourself over the course of month what each food effect does for you.

[Russta]

Originally posted by Centurion
I never knew a resource like this existed, is there an English version available, or in the works?

JP ONRY!

[iglak]

Originally posted by Mithrael
Another reason for this is that each point of weapon proficiency adds something closer to .7 accuracy instead of 1.
is that +.7% hit percentage, or +.7 accuracy stat? or are they the same thing?


you can dig up the posts if you want more confirmation of this.
can you look them up please? i can't seem to find them.

i found this thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51367&highlight=accuracy), which gives some insight into the matter.
and this thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46625&highlight=weapon+AND+skill+AND+level+AND+accuracy) , which says what i said, except has an extra formula for lvls 61-75.
but i can't find anything that supports what you said (and i can't read that book either).

[ifandbut]

Originally posted by Russta
JP ONRY!
What's the deal with that anyways. Sometimes I get tirred of seeing great books about final fantasy (any game) and I only see them released in Japanese. I thought Americans were just as big of Final Fantasy Freeks as Japanese were.

[Mithrael]

.7 accuracy, since clearly, once your weapon proficiency is greater than 142 you'd exceed 100% accuracy if it were .7%, which is impossible. Biggok's Data (look at his equations) assume .9 accuracy per level of weapon proficiency.

I'll just have to concede to you. I can't find the posts, and the search function of this board is nigh useless since you can't search for anything under 4 letters. I seem to recall most of the ones supporting the <1:1 relation of skill to accuracy involved Rugal. DEX<->Accuracy has been hased out many places, trying to find it is difficult since every abbreviates DEX and Acc instead of Dexterity and Accuracy. Anyway, I have no intention at the moment to level an alternate job, and my DRK is already 75... so, that pretty much dissolves any support for my argument.

I will say flat out that I believe there is an error in the thinking of many of the equations that people come up with for things in FFXI. They almost never include a basis for your level vs. the mob level. If you fight any mob that cons IT, then fight it again and it cons VT, your accuracy improves immediately, even before your weapon proficiency caps again. Another example is how hard PLD74 get hit vs. PLD75 in dynamis, or against Sky Gods, etc.

Consider for a moment how you're able to hit mobs at lv.1 with relative frequency before you even have weapon proficiency. How does that compare to once you're lv.10, lv.20, lv.30, lv.40, lv.59? Does a lv.24 Mithra THF/NIN DEX36+18 (102 accuracy with capped dagger) have the same hit rate as an unequipped lv.30 THF/NIN with DEX43 using a sword? (103 accuracy)? What if the mob is easy prey to both of them? What if the mob is lv.30 (IT to the lv.24 and EM to the lv.30)? They may both con "Low Evasion" but can the lv.24 really hit the IT mob as often as the lv.30? My guess is no.

[imac2much]

Actually Mithrael, I believe Apple Pie informed me that there is a 1:1 correlation between weapon proficiency and weapon accuracy for levels ... 1-60 I think. It might be 1-50, but I can't remember. I'm in the same boat as yourself, it's hard digging up the old threads where I used to talk about this due to the sheer abundance of threads talking about DEX or ACC. I'm pretty sure Apple Pie stated that at the higher levels (61+ I suppose), each level of weapon proficiency added the equivalent of 0.9 accuracy.

I have nothing to prove this except from what Apple Pie told me, and I believe he got it from a japanese resource. I didn't test this stuff personally, so take it with a grain of salt.

As for what Mithrael said about DEX + ACC relationship, I agree... it is not a direct correlation. I can attest to this from different experiments I performed with various equipment setups (all parsed) ... but then again, even then much of the experimentation is hard to deem foolproof since there will always be a variable I can't easily control (monster level/type/etc).

[JP_Ikari]

Originally posted by ifandbut
What's the deal with that anyways. Sometimes I get tirred of seeing great books about final fantasy (any game) and I only see them released in Japanese. I thought Americans were just as big of Final Fantasy Freeks as Japanese were.

I wouldn't know about that, if there are a ton of American's that's FF "phr33ks" I still don't think it compares to how many japanese FF "phr33ks" there are out there hehe.

As for the books, there really isn't any company that's dedicated enough to go into full detail on most of the books. I mean I haven't even seen the m00k book for this game, but knowing how the japanese are, their books are insanely detailed and are hundreds of pages longer than what we see here. Now, getting it translated, I don't know why most companies won't, but it's either the company that created it doesn't wanna sell it to the American companies, or maybe because the American companies would rather create one for their own.

JP

[murmur]

Well, in my opinion, translating from one language to another is a very timeconsuming and daunting task, and unless there's already a well established demand to do so (English to Spanish -- Japanese manga to Other Asian countries), it takes a lot longer to translate and make sure it sounds natural while still conveying the meaning from the original language. I'm already really impressed with how their updates are always so courteous and informative -- even in English. But will the cost and time spent of translating books into english really be worth it when most won't be buying these? Seriously... I highly doubt the majority of American players will, instead we'll rely on those that do buy it to inform us online. >_> Even if it's free, Americans can be so critical and ununderstanding if any part is stated poorly in English. Land of Lawyers.

"Well it said right here OFFICIALLY that dex does blah and blah." No mercy for translation mistakes.

So I'm glad Square is careful that what they do give us is of good quality, rather than quantity. They're doing a damn good job in my opinion with fast updates and responses to problems, etc. ^^

[ifandbut]

Originally posted by murmur
So I'm glad Square is careful that what they do give us is of good quality, rather than quantity. They're doing a damn good job in my opinion with fast updates and responses to problems, etc. ^^

I do agree with that. I'v been playing Star Wars Galaxies on and off for about the past 2 months and I'v talked to some people that have been there sence launch and some bugs that were in the launch version are still there today, 2 years after launch.

From my experience, Final Fantasy is 99% bug free, only the extreamly random or hard to reproduce bugs (like falling under the walk way in kazham) are still present simply because they are so hard to track down and the fact they dont do anything that cant be fixed in 20 secs with a GM call.

[ominub]

eh I see things like a bit differently... lets say you raise acc by 5(EDIT snipers ring) and scythe skill by 5(the earring from divine might, forgot name ><) I bet the scythe skill+5 will mean ALOT more than the assult earring. I know many people you see a different with skill rather than actual acc giving gear.

Skill always means more than everything else.

Lots of people I know noticed skill helps alot more on everything.

[Alontier]

I've been looking through JP pages and the most accepted hypothesis seems to be:

Skill less or equal 200↓
Accuracy=WeaponSkill+(Dex/2)
Evasion=EvasionSkill+(Agi/2)

Skill over 201↓
Accuracy=200+(WeaponSkill-200)*0.9)+Dex/2
Evasion=200+(EvasionSkill-200)*0.9+Agi/2

Now if this is correct then you'd benefit more from raising Accuracy/Evasion after reaching 200 Skill rather than the Skill itself.

ps.
Sushi (30min, +Acc15%) ~2500gil
SniperRing:500k=200pcs=3000h=124days of Sushi
ScorpionHarness:5M=2000pcs=30000h=1250days=3years of Sushi
15% is +3acc for every 20acc so at lower levels you don't benefit much from sushi.

[ifandbut]

Originally posted by Alontier
Sushi (30min, +Acc15%) ~2500gil
SniperRing:500k=200pcs=3000h=124days of Sushi
ScorpionHarness:5M=2000pcs=30000h=1250days=3years of Sushi
15% is +3acc for every 20acc so at lower levels you don't benefit much from sushi.

So, around what level would you recomend to start to useing sushi?

[Alontier]

Originally posted by ifandbut
So, around what level would you recomend to start to useing sushi?
Hard to say when as it depends on your race, job, equipment, weapon etc.
There are too many variables to give a specific answer to your question.
You'd better calculate that yourself but I'll give you an example calculated with
Elvaan stats, (race Dex rank E, job Dex rank B, weapon rank A) without any equipment bonuses.

ex1:
Nin/War lv20
Dex23, WPSkill63 = ~74Acc
Sushi +15% gives +11.1Acc

ex2:
Mnk/War lv30
Dex32, WPSkill93 = ~109Acc
Sushi +15% gives +16.35Acc

So at level 20 I would probably be better off eating Jack-o'-Lanterns (+10Acc)
but at level 30 I gain more from eating sushi.
You start gaining more from sushi once you have above 67Acc (10 / 0.15 = 66.666 ~ 67)
but I'd wait until I have over 70-75Acc.

+16Acc at level 30 with sushi is quite a gain considering that you'd
only get +4Acc from wearing 2 Archer Rings at that level.
But this doesn't mean that you can skip your Acc gear cause
your gear bonus gets the boost from your food^^

[ifandbut]

Originally posted by Alontier
You'd better calculate that yourself but I'll give you an example calculated with
Elvaan stats, (race Dex rank E, job Dex rank B, weapon rank A) without any equipment bonuses.

This brings up another question :spin:
How did you asign the ranks for the stats for race and jobs. I'v seen a web page that asignes weapon skill ranks based on job (Thats how I know RDMs have a B in both Sword and Dagger) but I have not seen a site that does the same for race and jobs.

Could you please post a link :handsdown

EDIT: Here (http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gbox/ff/skill-e.html) is the link to the page I was talking about so you have a reference.

[Alontier]

Originally posted by ifandbut
[B]This brings up another question :spin:
How did you asign the ranks for the stats for race and jobs. I'v seen a web page that asignes weapon skill ranks based on job (Thats how I know RDMs have a B in both Sword and Dagger) but I have not seen a site that does the same for race and jobs.

Could you please post a link
This was listed in the latest official guide Vana'diel World Report.
Not sure if I've seen this mentioned on a EN page but here's a link
to JP pages that has RACE/JOB Stats Ranks listed.
http://chuc.jp/ff/tips/status.php
OR
http://miara.sakura.ne.jp/ff/data/d_cap.htm

I usually can find most of these things through these pages:
http://yukke.sub.jp/ff11/
http://miara.sakura.ne.jp/ff/
http://chuc.jp/ff/
http://www5.plala.or.jp/SQR/ff11-index.html

[Treth]

How do critical hits come in? Are critical hits just determined by ur acc+? or is it something seperate, only reffering to DEX?

example: u have +16 acc and u make critical hits idk 5% of the time

u have +8 DEX and u make critical hits 8% of the time

I'm not sure of anything at all... im just curious. If u want more crits, do u raise ur DEX or acc? or does it basically matter wat lvl u r, like Alontier said?

[Alontier]

Originally posted by Treth
How do critical hits come in? Are critical hits just determined by ur acc+? or is it something seperate, only reffering to DEX?

example: u have +16 acc and u make critical hits idk 5% of the time

u have +8 DEX and u make critical hits 8% of the time

I'm not sure of anything at all... im just curious. If u want more crits, do u raise ur DEX or acc? or does it basically matter wat lvl u r, like Alontier said?
Can't remember where I saw this but what I can remember is that
you gain 0.2%critrate for every Dex, and that it wasn't affected by weaponskill at all.
Also, I never said that level affects Accuracy (or Critrate) directly,
but your Dex and WeaponSkill(cap) increases with each level and that at lower levels
you won't have gained enough Dex for sushi to be effective food.

[kuu]

Yes there is lots of work done on these topics.

Suffice to say, just rough it, and make educated guesses.

It's really hard even with a parser, as abs spells, monster skills, frost, etc, get in the way of things.

There may even be a lvl requirement to it. Jumping from one level to the next may produce a hit increase that just stats won't compensate for.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Originally posted by Alontier
Mithrael is correct in both regards.
This was listed in the latest official guide Vana'diel World Report (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4757513429/elemen-22/ref%3Dnosim/249-7795348-2450709).
Very nice and detailed list of food and effects etc in this 700 page brick (http://ff11-photo.dynsite.net/joyfulyy/img/16577_1.jpg).

What page?

[iglak]

ok, so... i was right?
not including when skill is above 200.

[Valdrien]

Originally posted by Mithrael
2.) Accuracy+15% does not mean you figure out what your quantifiable accuracy number is (say... 100+52) then multiply by 1.15. It means you hit the mob ~15% more often, until you hit the cap. So if you normally hit for 60%, eating accuracy+15% food means you'll hit roughly 75% of the time. It never quite works out that perfectly, but that's the jist of it.

How can this possibly be the case? It's well-established that something around an 85% hit rate can be achieved with typical accuracy gear like snipers, life belt, etc. But I have not heard of anyone achieving a 100% (or even 95%) hit rate with this stuff and sushi.

If sushi is a "hit rate+" food and not an "accuracy+" food then what is the meaning of the cap? Most sushi is said to cap at "39", but if that's not +39 accuracy, then it is +39... what, exactly?

[Alontier]

Originally posted by Mithrael
2.) Accuracy+15% does not mean you figure out what your quantifiable accuracy number is (say... 100+52) then multiply by 1.15. It means you hit the mob ~15% more often, until you hit the cap. So if you normally hit for 60%, eating accuracy+15% food means you'll hit roughly 75% of the time. It never quite works out that perfectly, but that's the jist of it.

Originally posted by Valdrien
How can this possibly be the case? It's well-established that something around an 85% hit rate can be achieved with typical accuracy gear like snipers, life belt, etc. But I have not heard of anyone achieving a 100% (or even 95%) hit rate with this stuff and sushi.

If sushi is a "hit rate+" food and not an "accuracy+" food then what is the meaning of the cap? Most sushi is said to cap at "39", but if that's not +39 accuracy, then it is +39... what, exactly? I misread Mithrael's 2nd point the first time.
Accuracy is a skill and not hitrate, same as Evasion is not evasionrate.
Sushi is accuracy+ food that boosts accuracy skill while Bardsong "Sword Madrigal" boosts hitrate
Hitrate seems to be calculated through Attackers accuracy against Defenders evasion.
With a gain or loss of 1% for every 2 difference.

ex
DEva > AAcc → 50%-(diff/2)% (Will /con "Low evasion" with a diff over 20?)
DEva = AAcc → 50% hitrate
DEva < AAcc → 50%+(diff/2)% (Will /con "High evasion" with a diff over 20?)

Evasion Rate Cap = 80%
Hitrate Cap = 95%


Drogen_Shomuro
I'll post again when I'm off work and have looked it up again.

[Valdrien]

Originally posted by Alontier
I misread Mithrael's 2nd point the first time.
Accuracy is a skill and not hitrate, same as Evasion is not evasionrate.
Sushi is accuracy+ food that boosts accuracy skill while Bardsong "Sword Madrigal" boosts hitrate
I see. This makes more sense, especially the bit about Madrigal. From the testimonials I have read from so many melee DDs, it seems to have a more profound effect than merely increasing the accuracy parameter. I'll bet Prelude is the same way.
Hitrate seems to be calculated through Attackers accuracy against Defenders evasion.
With a gain or loss of 1% for every 2 difference.

ex
DEva > AAcc → 50%-(diff/2)% (Will /con "Low evasion" with a diff over 20?)
DEva = AAcc → 50% hitrate
DEva < AAcc → 50%+(diff/2)% (Will /con "High evasion" with a diff over 20?)

This perhaps needs a revision to include the relative levels of the attacker & defender. When skilling up a weapon on much lower level mobs, for example, we seem to have well over a 50% hitrate even when the mob cons "high evasion" due to our low weapon skill.
Evasion Rate Cap = 80%
Hitrate Cap = 95%
So no matter how much +accuracy gear and sushi we pile on we will still miss 1 in 20 attacks. Yet people still say "you can't have too much acc" :(
Drogen_Shomuro
I'll post again when I'm off work and have looked it up again.
:handsdown Please pass along all the information you can, if you feel you can translate it accurately! :handsdown