Thieves have it so easy making money, just pick a coffer right?(evidence inside)

[crowly]

I'll just you know, pick this lock and take the treasure out of this coffer here...

Picture 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/kibz/Kib050316202157a.jpg)

Uh oh this coffer has teeth! And I'm in the middle of a ton of IT orcs stunned without invis... No matter, exit is just around the corner. And I have my shadows up ~.^




Picture 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/kibz/Kib050316202305a.jpg)

Turns out, my warp cudgel had an hour left on it...and mimics port you back to themselves.
~~~~

/sigh and people act like we have it so easy compared to them >.>; even though our equip costs more than most jobs too...

[SlizenDize]

Will they still be mimics if you use tools to open?

[Kyrial Arthian]

Originally posted by SlizenDize
Will they still be mimics if you use tools to open?
Yes, they can. I only use Thief's Tools, and I have gotten a Mimic once. I usually am successful, even if it takes a couple tools sometimes. But people overestimate just how much can be made from coffers. Certainly no more than you can make farming any other way. :P In fact, depending on where/what you farm, there are a lot better options nowadays than picking coffers.

[little ninja]

yeah right, back in the day castle oz was the thfs hang out. an all my thf friends managed to pick the locks on all there coffers. with very few mimics.

sure beats waiting for countless hours to go looking for a key only to never see one drop, or get out looted. :rolleyes:

i will show you thfs no pitty, you do have it easy. thf/war in the 60's can out pull anyone. plus you guys have a better drop rate %, or you can sub nin an have an easier time using utes, hell you thfs can use bloodbolts, an cure yourself with little to absolutely no downtime.. so spare me this were so poor crap. :rolleyes:

try ninja full time. an whats worse is that its gets more expensive with dynamis, hnms, gods. exping. an helping out random ls mates. thf is in the lower end of being an expensive geared job.

[crowly]

Ya, because scorp harness and flora cote are so much cheaper than haubergeon XD(just 2 body pieces needed by 60 imo)

Not to mention the fact that we don't get invited to BCNM's >.>;


But damn I was having some good luck til then XD picked eldieme coffer for my pld af, then monastic cavern for thf af, even got a few nest coffers...then it decided to bite >.>;

[SlizenDize]

I think thieves always steal gold beastcoins of all mobs >>
I mean they gotta get rich of that.

[Lahfiel]

You need to be high enough to kill them, no more coins after successful steal.

[little ninja]

last time i saw, those bad boys where 20k a steal. so even if you can only steal 3 or 4, thats still 60-80k for 15-20 mins work. plus the ability to use t.h2 will increase your drops more then it would for me..

why is a scorpion harness useful to a thf? especially in an exp pt. its not like your tanking the mob like the ninja is. an most thf sub nin, so you have utes taking the hits. an i know the haub is a sweet peice of armor an its stats greatly improve the damage output of the melee.


im still curious how you picked the lock for your pld af with your thf. because coffers are job only openings. so if you dont open it with your pld, all you will find in there is money. or items? as i always thought an was toldsub thf doesnt allow you to pick a lock..
:confused:

[Kyrial Arthian]

First off, gold beastcoins are very hard to steal, even with full AF with all its Steal+. And if the mob is not sight aggro with no scent pursuit, then you're pretty much screwed unless you can kill it (which means you'd have to be pretty damn high-level). And if you can't kill it, you better hope someone else does, because once you've stolen one from it, you can't get another one from it until it dies and respawns. :P And the coins are 10k/piece on Quetz, though they are 160k/stack.

Second, Scorpion Harness is needed by THFs in XP PTs for the Accuracy, not the evasion. Dancing Edge is a 5-hit WS, and if only 1 or 2 of those hits connect, your damage isn't gonna be that great. Not to mention we need to build TP as quick as possible. The evasion just helps immensely when soloing.

Yes, we can solo quite well in the higher levels. And yes, we have TH2. But until you've used Treasure Hunter II, I suggest you not comment on it. It can help immensely at times, but most of the time I find myself wondering wtf it even does, because my drop rates actually seem WORSE with some stuff than those without even TH1. :P

As for AF coffers: I'm fairly sure you can open your AF coffers as another job, so long as there is not something in that coffer for the job you're using to open it.

As for picking coffers for money: you don't see people doing it anymore, do you? Because Astral Rings were the only big-money item in coffers before. And now they are not in there, they are BCNM drops.

So quit with the "oh, THFs have it easy they are all rich and don't need anywhere near as much gil as us" bullshit. Yeah, NIN and RNG are expensive jobs and we don't need as much as gil as them. No one does, those are the 2 most expensive jobs in the game. But we still need a crapload of money, and we're not the gods of making money that everyone seems to think we are.

[kowboy]

Originally posted by Kyrial Arthian

As for AF coffers: I'm fairly sure you can open your AF coffers as another job, so long as there is not something in that coffer for the job you're using to open it.


The only AF related coffers you can open as another job is the one in which you recieve Key Item: Old Gauntlets. Which is what Crowly did.

The contents of a coffer are decided 1) The current job you are questing for Guslam (Borghertz xxxx Hands). 2) Your job. (excludes old gauntlets, see above). If you accepted Guslam's quest for Ninja and open a Ninja coffer (such as Boyahda) as Thief, you will recieve map/gil/etc. The only thing that supercedes those 2 parameters is a coffer in which an AF3 key item is found. Say you are on NIN AF3 (already killed NMs), which requires a key item from Kuftal coffer. You currently have Guslam's quest for Samurai and open a Kuftal coffer as Samurai, you will recieve Key Item for Ninja AF3.

I have spent alot of time redoing coffer keys and such because of how many jobs I've tried to get coffers for and skipping some pieces and later trying to get those pieces. I pretty much have it all narrowed down to a science now.

[little ninja]

i asked my thf ls mate if hed go try an see how many gold coins he could get. he managed 5 in 50 mins. not bad if you ask me. depending on your server. thats 50k - 100k. an even at 60 wen we used to duo farm. hed sneak atk with dancing edge i believe it was. an did close to 1k damage every time. while i was doing a cool 250 with blade retsu.

an seeing as im a 70 ninja. i have never pted with a thf who wore a scorpion harness. an they did there job very well. pullin with status effect ranged weapons. tricking onto me then moving so i new when to voke. knowing what there weapon skilled with what. thats what makes them a great thf. not a 6 mil body armor. hell you miss you miss. your gonna miss regardless if you have a harness or not. so take you own advice. since you dont own one, dont comment on how much better you will be with it. cause you dont know..

your right i can not comment on t.h2. but its not like i havent seen the proof that drop rates are better with it, then they are without it. there was a post just written about it. i can comment on t.h1, an how my drop rates are slightly better. yeah some days it utter crap. but then again some days im in love with it..

[Elsurion]

One thing i noticed about TH1 and TH2 is actual the moonphase (yea, stone me NOW) and the amount farmed in the zone.

I'm getting more and better drops at Full Moon and New Moon, crappy drops in the inbetweener (around 40 ~ 50% Moonphase)

As for RNG being an expensive job, it don't have to be. Just skill craftings. I make my own ammo, saving up to 15k/stack (silver), depending on ammo. But you have to spend up to 500k for all crafts needed to raise, if you buy everything.

Nin is the same way, but as far i know you don't need 60 Crafts for the most tools. I don't craft NIN Tools at the moment.

[little ninja]

Originally posted by Elsurion
One thing i noticed about TH1 and TH2 is actual the moonphase (yea, stone me NOW) and the amount farmed in the zone.

I'm getting more and better drops at Full Moon and New Moon, crappy drops in the inbetweener (around 40 ~ 50% Moonphase)

As for RNG being an expensive job, it don't have to be. Just skill craftings. I make my own ammo, saving up to 15k/stack (silver), depending on ammo. But you have to spend up to 500k for all crafts needed to raise, if you buy everything.

Nin is the same way, but as far i know you don't need 60 Crafts for the most tools. I don't craft NIN Tools at the moment.

i actually agree with you moonphase places a big part in what is actually dropped. on some days i get way more of a certain drop, then i do on other days.

an actually a ninja needs to have most crafts at 60 for most of our spells. alch,woods,clothes,goldsmithing. all have ninja tools, an because some require a second craft, you have to lvl foods, smithing, but if you can do so. you in the end save loads of gil.

[Elsurion]

if you seriously taking rng or nin further then 40 then you'll better start crafting, since you'll need lots of stuf to reach higher levels.
And making up to 70% of the holy bolts HQ is really nice :)

[Cremonte]

meh. i know coffer picking isn't the end all best way to make money for thieves but still... i mean, someone on my ls decided to spend a little bit in fei'yin... the next day he had half a dozen life belts, going for 70-80k each. he would find + pick chest, log and watch tv then repeat in a half hour <_<;

all this while, i was camping a nm (from what i've done, the best way for me to make money at the moment) only to have pol dc when he popped... someone else got claim and the drop /sigh

not to mention said person was a thf :-"

but yeah. thieves do have it pretty easy making money... if you see a coffer you can pick it, even if you aren't hunting - same with a chest or whatever. as far as stealing coins goes? my first bibiki party ever, the thf had 12+11 gold coins at the end of it.

/wishes he had a thf ;_;

[ClydeArrowny]

meh. i know coffer picking isn't the end all best way to make money for thieves but still... i mean, someone on my ls decided to spend a little bit in fei'yin... the next day he had half a dozen life belts, going for 70-80k each. he would find + pick chest, log and watch tv then repeat in a half hour <_<;

all this while, i was camping a nm (from what i've done, the best way for me to make money at the moment) only to have pol dc when he popped... someone else got claim and the drop /sigh

not to mention said person was a thf :-"

but yeah. thieves do have it pretty easy making money... if you see a coffer you can pick it, even if you aren't hunting - same with a chest or whatever. as far as stealing coins goes? my first bibiki party ever, the thf had 12+11 gold coins at the end of it.

/wishes he had a thf ;_;

Literally 70% of the coffers I pick have been mimics. Picks cost a few K, then warp on mimic out costs either CP, gil or exp. When I'm successful I usually get a 1k stone or 6k gil in the coffer. I usually break even on gil in coffers, lose exp if unlucky.

For chests, if youre not successful, you get weakened state for 30min-1hr. When in this state you can not pick chests or coffers...fun way to burn an hour :/

Last time I tried camping fei yin....I was active the whole time for 10 hours. Got lucky and no weakened state, had all coffer pops memorized, got 1 belt with competition. 7k an hour including chest gil, nice -.-;

Also even with steal+9 I'm lucky to get 1 gold beastcoin an hour when killing gold coin tier mobs and stealing once every 5 mins.... 8k an hour, better than life belts I guess

i asked my thf ls mate if hed go try an see how many gold coins he could get. he managed 5 in 50 mins. not bad if you ask me. depending on your server. thats 50k - 100k. an even at 60 wen we used to duo farm. hed sneak atk with dancing edge i believe it was. an did close to 1k damage every time. while i was doing a cool 250 with blade retsu.

an seeing as im a 70 ninja. i have never pted with a thf who wore a scorpion harness. an they did there job very well. pullin with status effect ranged weapons. tricking onto me then moving so i new when to voke. knowing what there weapon skilled with what. thats what makes them a great thf. not a 6 mil body armor. hell you miss you miss. your gonna miss regardless if you have a harness or not. so take you own advice. since you dont own one, dont comment on how much better you will be with it. cause you dont know..

your right i can not comment on t.h2. but its not like i havent seen the proof that drop rates are better with it, then they are without it. there was a post just written about it. i can comment on t.h1, an how my drop rates are slightly better. yeah some days it utter crap. but then again some days im in love with it..

Ok, when a thf is soloing, guess what. He doesnt have too much of a chance to use SA and never gets to use TA. That drops the 1k DE down quite a bit. First you lose the crit damage SA gives. Also you lose the guarantee that 2 of the hits in your WS will connect(the first hit of your main weapon and the extra hit your sub weapon gives) which means possible misses which calculate into lower WS damage as well. Also, at lv70, blade retsu is one of the weaker nin WS. Try using Ten and see what dmg you can do then. In exp PTs i see it do do 300-500 dmg on average, should be same or better results on farming mobs.

Sooo, a nin doesnt need scorp harness either cause theyll get hit or dodge whether they have the extra 10 evade? Yes, 5mil for 10 acc is expensive; however the 10 acc /does/ help. Is it worth 5 mil: no. Can I see a clear difference in my hit rate: yes.

As far as TH2, when I farm I usually average 20-30k per hour at lv75...as opposed to friends who make an average of 50-100k an hour farming at lv60drk...I tried farming in the same spots as the drks did; problem? They killed faster at lv60 than I do at lv75 so I came out with a whopping 12k an hour at that spot.

How do I, as thf, afford expensive stuff: simple spend a lot of time farming. 5,000,000(SH) gil at 20,000 per hour is 250 hours. A lot of time yes, but this item is more of a luxery piece for /any/ job imho. 1,000,000(VE+LL) gil at 20,000 per hour is only 50 hours for farming. you can get that in 3 weekend days worth of time and still get 8 hours of sleep a day.

[little ninja]

is that 70% before or after the patch. cause i remember before the patch 1 thf. had a nice control over the astral ring market. after the patch i have heard majority of locks picked resulted in a mimic.

you seemed to have missed read what i wrote. i said at 60 the thf was easily outdamaging me, imo blade retsu is about the best thing you could farm with til blade jin came along. an honestly, if you cant pull of s.a onto a mob. then A. that place is way to crowded. B. you never were farming the right mobs.

as a nin from 60-70 i can say that id adverage around 50k-100k an hour depending on where i was at. an if things were dropping. an guess what. i was never where it was crowded. to hear a lvl 75 thf barely makes 20k an hour makes me wonder what you been doing wrong.

i own a S.H. does it help me out is another question all its own. an you can test it a million times. an never come to a correct answer. mobs are all different. an every little thing effects the outcome of the battle. so to clerify. is S.H nice t o have ? yes. is the S.H a must? NO!

[ClydeArrowny]

70% before patch. It was before warp cudgel and I had no CP for warp scrolls. Lost about 40k exp from mimics --; Only reason I kept going so long was peer pressure...

On sound agro ep+ mobs you cant land SA unless you sub whm or burn silent oils. On these mobs, I usually find /nin much more useful than whm and silent oils being 1k each...no thanks(most harder things I farm are sound agro.)

When I farm rare but expensive drops that are from regular mobs, I go 5+ hours and no drop. Easier NMs I dont feel like competing with gil-seller crews. Harder NMs which I need /nin for I lose pull to people with voke.
Goobbues = 20k an hour average w/o competition.
Silk in saruta = 15-20k an hour with moderate to no competition
Tigers = 8-20k an hour depending on competition
High tier beastmen = ~19k an hour
Goldsmith desynthing = 15-20k an hour
Spiders = umm...1 web an hour when I'm lucky, like 5k
Less known farming I dont want to reveal = varies greatly. I can lose 30k an hour from consumables or make 200k an hour if /very/ lucky.....for a while i was making 40k an hour average which seemed to be great, however horrible results recently of pure gil loss have turned it to about 20k an hour. 7 hours of spending 30k an hour and no drops really hurts the pocketbook so Ive sorta stopped doing this for now.

The best gil I ever made as per gil/hr is NMs. However to do this I need a 7-10 hour block of time free, which I haven't had in quite some time. I got about 90% of the NM pops and I guess it would average about 40k an hour.

When I farm stuff which I am only limited by the pop, I keep track of the pop timers for each mob so I know exactly when it will pop. In some locations I even have a mental image of the pop spots for each mob pop from farming so long.

Imo, the biggest limiting factor of thf is the slow kills. That or my server is gay...or I just have horrible luck even with TH2 --;

[Lahfiel]

If you're a cheap THF, just taking it up for kicks, you don't really need scorpion harness. It's a luxury to have, but the benefit is noticeable. THFs in only DEX/AGI gear don't cut it after so long. When other melee start doubling your TP it becomes apparent.

A career THF, it's a valuable asset. You don't seem to have noticed THF has higher evasion cap than NIN. With the addition of status bolts THF can solo a lot of things. Especially when you can use Utsu: Ni again. In the right hands a THF solos better than a NIN.

I don't know exactly what you're trying to justify though. The numbers you gave aren't much worse than THF. When I use my friends 75 THF to farm I can average 80k an hr, unless I get lucky and a good spell scroll drops. If I pick coffers at the same time it only bumps up to 100k in the best situation. In the worst situation I die to BLM type beastmen, or if I'm not careful and Hide wears off in a bad spot. Those numbers are using rabbit charm, thief's kote, af.

[dworkin]

i think you have been having bad farming luck is all. i know when i fight goobdues. i can average a stack of cuttings, an 2 - 3 stacks of moss in about 2 - 3hrs at the max. with only a half a stack of blink powders. 120k for the cuttings, an 10k for moss. is 150k. minus the powders is 146k net profit. so broken down this equals 48k - 73k an hour. i think farming is all about timing, an weathering its dowh falls. i can remember 1 time making 10k in 1 hr. nothing was dropping, the area was swarmming with others so i logged an took a break. an hour or so later i came back. to my surprise i was 1 of a hand full of people. i managed in the next 2 hrs to walk away with about 600k. just not to long ago i got done farming. the 1 mob dropped 3 items worth 21k. not bad for a total farming time of 30 seconds.


yeah thfs have a way better evasion cap then the ninja. they also come with avasion bonus. not to mention they have as high in the parry rating as the ninja, add in the thfs triple atk. an status effect bolts. this only makes them more dangerous. an they get better when they are able to use ni. reading how you are struggling to make money only confuses me as well.

[Shifty]

as a ninja with scorp harness, i can honesly say that the eva doesnt help on IT++ mobs at all. trying to tank dhalmals in bibiki bay, i dodged 3 attacks in 30mins of exping(+63eva). as for farming, its very noticeable. is scorp harness worth it? absolutely not...i think its for status personally, but i'm too weak to sell it...

as for farming, i have a 46 thf, cant really farm many good places, but i can say that TH2 is to random to really know if drop rates are increased. i get as good of drops with my nin/thf, plus, i can solo forever~

as for coffers, i think the only real way thier worthwhile is if your skilling up for coffer keys, and a coffer pops...i was with 8 peeps in beadeaux and coffer popped 3x on us. we each got 6k gil per coffer. soloing, you have that chance of it being a mimic, and if it is money, thats only like 30k gil. if you get it 2x per hour(doubtful) thats 60k an hour, and i highly doubt you can farm coffer mobs to raise the k's per hour.

thf really isnt that much better at farming than xxx/xxx, its just that thier are more opportunities to make money. such as stealing in exp, or having TH2 kick in and raise drops.

[Kyrial Arthian]

Originally posted by Shifty
as for coffers, i think the only real way thier worthwhile is if your skilling up for coffer keys, and a coffer pops...i was with 8 peeps in beadeaux and coffer popped 3x on us. we each got 6k gil per coffer. soloing, you have that chance of it being a mimic, and if it is money, thats only like 30k gil. if you get it 2x per hour(doubtful) thats 60k an hour, and i highly doubt you can farm coffer mobs to raise the k's per hour.
I think you're mistaken on how gil from chests/coffers works. When you open a chest/coffer in a PT and gil is recieved, each person recieves a certain fraction of what would have been obtained had the chest/coffer been opened solo. I think it's something like half, because I typically get ~6k from a chest (not coffer) in Davoi, but when I open one in a PT I everyone gets ~3k. Not sure as to the actual formula though.

Originally posted by Shifty
thf really isnt that much better at farming than xxx/xxx, its just that thier are more opportunities to make money. such as stealing in exp, or having TH2 kick in and raise drops.
I think you hit the nail on the head.

Originally posted by dworkin
yeah thfs have a way better evasion cap then the ninja. they also come with avasion bonus. not to mention they have as high in the parry rating as the ninja, add in the thfs triple atk.
THFs do have better evasion, but only slightly. At my level, I have the same cap as a NIN of equal level. Even at level 75, the difference is only 7 levels (THF with 276 and NIN with 269). So I wouldn't say it's "way better." THFs have the same evasion as NIN until 62, at which point we have 212 and NINs have 211. But yes, we do have evasion bonus, and it's Evasion Bonus III by level 50 (IV at 70).

But while we may have the same cap with parrying, THFs almost certainly don't have the same skill (unless THF is a second job and parrying is high from another job). Why? NINs are tanks, and will get a ton more skillups in parrying than a THF, who does not get hit at all in exp PTs, will. Pretty much the only time a THF gets parrying skillups is when we are farming. My parrying skill is ~90, even though my cap is 178. This is because the only time I get hit in an exp PT is when I let the mob hit me on the way back to camp while pulling to cap my evasion (I could just put up Utsusemi while pulling, but then my evasion skill would suffer immensely, and the healers don't mind throwing a Cure III or Regen II at me when I get back :P).

As for the Scorpion Harness, I think Lahfiel said it best. If you're just leveling THF for shits and giggles, no, you don't need it at all. But as a career THF, it's a valuable asset. Pre-60, it's a status item for THFs. Post-60, it's much more important. I'm not there yet, but every THF I've talked to has told me the same thing. And I can already tell that the 10 Accuracy will help a lot. When I'm building TP (i.e. not SATAing), I have a Sniper's Ring, a Venerer Ring, and a Life Belt. That's +18 accuracy. I used to have a Bone Knife +1 offhand, which was another +5, and I barely missed like that. When I switched out the Bone Knife +1 for a Hornetneedle, I noticed the difference almost right away. Right now, it doesn't matter so much, as long as I have 100TP or more by the time SATA is ready, I'm good. Extra TP doesn't affect the damage of Viper Bite, just the duration of the poison. But from what I hear/read, the more TP you have for Dancing Edge, the more damage you do (I've also heard what it affects is the accuracy of each hit, which would explain why it does more damage with more TP anyway). So the more Accuracy+, the better. And that is why THFs who want to do the best they can want a Scorpion Harness. It's nice to be called a good player, but if you're a perfectionist (like I am), just good isn't good enough.

[Kiami]

<fontcolor="FF33CC"> That is insane. You poor thing. Didn't realize they took you back. /comfort [/COLOR]