When to tell you have enough defense...

[Anakron]

For melees and RNGs, it's generally accepted (as far as I know) that if your attacks consistently do the same damage to a mob, it means that your attack vs defense is capped by your strength or weapon. So would a mob hitting us (the PLD) for somewhat consistent damage (it'll probably never be as consistent as example above) mean that we have enough defense so we're at the bottom of the "damage curve" and that we should increase VIT to lower the actual damage curve?

[Dark Aphalite]

After around Lv50, VIT > DEF certainly.
For example at 50 many PLDs go for Phalanx Rings for the DEF+10 on both but as soon as they hit 53 they go for the Chrysoberyl Rings as VIT becomes a lot more important around that level.

And to answer your question yes. There is a limit to how much Defense will remove the damage taken but +VIT will increase that amount, just like how MND works for cure potency.

[Anakron]

Yeah, I've read all about the Vigor vs. Phalanx rings things, and that VIT is better than Defense past 50. I guess my question was would it be possible to switch between the two depending on certain mobs (even though generally, Vigors are better) and if the difference is something we can see without the use of a parser.

[Elesirdur]

But defense still does play a major part in damage mitigation. For example:

I was exping off Processionaires in Boyhada a few days ago and since I hit 65 I figured I wouldn't be taking too much damage, so I played a few battles with Defender off (I normally have it up constantly except when I have to participate in a renkei). I wasn't hitting that much more often, even with my Life Belt on, and was taking anywhere from 80-100 dmg/hit. I decided to pop Defender up and my damage dropped to 60-80 dmg/hit. Even critical hits rarely went above 105 and I was hitting just as often (but rarely for more than 25 damage).

I guess it's personal preference wether you want to play with Defender constatnly up for the extra defense, but I certainly like it. I'm usually at about 485 Def w/Schallops Tropicale naturally and about 590~something with Defender up. I'll take a lot less damage for hitting a little less any day. (`'-'~)

[imac2much]

At a certain point, it's true that Defense becomes less important. However, when you are fighting IT+, defense will become more of a factor. However, it's not hard at all to put up Defender, so that you have both Defense and VIT at once... because in most cases, if something is SO strong that your added defense becomes significant, you aren't hitting them for squat anyways.

However, at high levels you rarely fight IT+... for instance, if you are figthing tigers and cockatrices in Kuftal, they're usually at a level that you can do decent damage with weapons like Joyeuse and even Espadon. However, if you want to end a chain with a Dragon (gosh I can't remember the monster's name :( ) , you can pop defender and notice the difference.

I remember when I hit 73, I did a little test in Kuftal. First with level 72 equipment (and unequipped my rosenbogen), I popped defender on VT cockatrices and tigers... I still basically took the same amount of damage. However, when I switched to full adaman + koenig shield + rosenbogen, I noticed a VERY significant reduction of damage. VIT just seems that much more important than Defense at high levels.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: don't build your high end equipment setup around Defense, try to build it around VIT. Because when you're in a pinch, you have a JA to instantly increase your Defense... you have no such JA for VIT. And in the few situations where Defender will help a lot, you won't be hitting the monsters for much anyway.

[LordBiGGs]

i for one use vit gear and always keep up defender. even with defender i rarely hit for 0 in parties so i still get the enmity+. i personally dont care if i hit for 1 rather than like 40, as long as i'm not hitting for 0 and get that enmity+. defender definitely lowers damage and seems to keep hate better.

[csBahamut]

Defender does nothing for the damage I take, except on stuff like a Ladon(the wyvern Rugal was referring to). You need to look at it from another point of view too. Is that 10 less damage really worth the 20-40 dmg per hit you do? Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Now don't do all out with offensive gear, but don't sacrifice all your offensive power for defense. There's a point to how much damage you should reduce. In fact, if you take too little damage, you won't be able to hold hate. If the monster is consistently hitting me for 70-90 dmg, then I tend to lose hate a lot easier than one hitting me for 90-110. For monsters hitting me for 120+, then defender comes into play, cause again, I'm not doing jack in the way of damage as is.