melees and hnm an gods

[Capathyst]

one of hte main reasons i want to play ffxi is hdoing hnm and gods and stuff like that but what i hear melee isnt good for these? is this true? if it is how can i be a good melee for hnm/gods/etc ?

[TheMidg]

DRK stay in for Stun.
RNGs stay in because they're the best melee to be in battle.
MNKs are subbed in for Chi Blast
All other melee subbed in for spirits within

Hope this was useful.

[Sheng]

What about PLD and WAR ?

From what I read, PLD are in for tanking/kiting and so are WAR.

[Uroboros]

PLD main tanks, and are the most consistent/easiest tank option on really hard mobs. WAR can main tank HNMs but it requires more work and more of a team effort than a PLD tanking so most shells don't do it. It's doable though. WAR/NIN is probably the best kiter due to having both a strong provoke and blink, and WAR/THF can DD as well as any melee/THF can.

[TheMidg]

He was asking about melee, not tanks.

[Sheng]

I'm sorry TheMidg, WAR and PLD are indeed melees, unless you consider them as mages...

:handsdown

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by TheMidg
He was asking about melee, not tanks.

Originally posted by Sheng
What about PLD and WAR ?

From what I read, PLD are in for tanking/kiting and so are WAR.

[Blood Red Poet]

Uh....

WARs are a hybird of tank/damage dealer.

Anyway here is how it works: Tanks(PLD NIN), Melee(DRK DRG SAM RNG* THF**), and Mages(WHM SMN BLM* BRD*** RDM***). WAR could be either tank or melee.

*-Often considered another group named "High-Dmg dealers"
**-Often considered another group named "Hate Control"
***-Often consider another group named "MP Refresher"

Thats how the game works, and how the game worked before you started playing. Midg(ardsormr!) is right.

[Kailea]

Tanks(PLD NIN)

I would not consider NIN as a tank..... the only reason NINs tank is because of Utsi and with out that they cant tank at all where as PLD and WAR can tank with out any skills other than voke

and I am sorry but RNG is not "melee" it is range, yes RNG does physical damage but it should not be called a Melee class. Melee is a term used for upclose combat...and that is defenatly what RNGs do NOT do.

it would be more like this....
Tanks: PLD WAR
Melee: THF NIN (does damage but not enuff to be called DD)
DD: SAM DRK DRG
Range: RNG
Magic: WHM RDM BLM SMN
Solo: BST

now this does not include WS or skills like Utsi because they are limited

[Pounce]

it would be more like this....
Tanks: PLD WAR
Melee: THF NIN (does damage but not enuff to be called DD)
DD: SAM DRK DRG
Range: RNG
Magic: WHM RDM BLM SMN
Solo: BST


So why is a THF and NIN a "melee" and a DRG/SAM/DRK A "damage dealer" and a RNG a "Range"? I'm sorry but that doesn't compute.

And NIN is a tank. It has some ability to deal good damage and debuff, but 99% of the time people will invite NIN to tank, and that by definition makes NIN a tank, no?

For that matter, at higher levels people will invite WAR as a DD more so than a tank.

Granted, it's really an issue of semantics.

Here's a better list, based on what people will invite various jobs for.

Tank: PLD, WAR, NIN
Melee DD: WAR, DRK, MNK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG
Healer: WHM, SMN, RDM
Refresher: RDM, BRD

[Icemage]

*thinks the people below level 70+ who have never been on an HNM hunt should stop posting uninformed opinions based on lower level experiences*

Vs. Non-kited HNM:
Tank - PLD/WAR, NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN
Damage - RNG, BLM, SMN , non-/THF DDs
Damage/Hate Control - THF, and /THF DDs
Healers - WHM, RDM, SMN (and occasionally BLM)
Support - RDM, BRD, SMN

vs. kited HNM:
Tank - PLD/WAR, NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN
Damage - MNK, RNG, BLM
Healers - WHM, RDM, SMN (and occasionally BLM)
Support - RDM, BRD, SMN
Spectators - everyone else


Icemage

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Icemage
Damage - MNK, RNG, BLM
Spectators - everyone else

SAM/THF can do up to 1k every 6 minutes against kited HNM. Although not close to MNK, RNG, or BLM damage, that's still good damage (And obviously the /THF isn't there for hate control, but is there for the damage).

And ofcoarse there's sleep pots for other melees, but there's no need for that at all unless your loaded. :o

[kumaeru]

<3 war/nin tank on Kirin, Genbu, Suzaku. Makes it too easy to kill. All you need to stun is the ga's, and let the utsusemi eat the lvl 4 spells and ancients XD.

*thinks the people below level 70+ who have never been on an HNM hunt should stop posting uninformed opinions based on lower level experiences*

woo icemage hit the nail right there :p

Hate displacement with /thf is almost irrelavent besides doing more dmg on WS. Hate displacement with the /thf is usually only used on easier HNM/ lesser HNM's, or when there is only a few people required to take down an HNM efficiently. Thf sub is also used to get TP, because the hit rate on high HNM is rather low. Except that doesnt matter on Fafnir/Nidhogg...

The bulk of the dmg does goto Blm, Rng, Mnk on all HNM. I still do consider Drk dmg.. however comparitivly to the high dmg jobs, Drk can do a good amount of damage, but usually they are in just for the fact that they can do decent dmg and stun ><;

tbh.. Thief is in for 2 reasons.. TH2/3/4 OR to fit a renkei so Blms can burst for more damage more often.

On Kited HNM.. ie. King Behemoth (which is usually a Spirits Within fight for most melees), or Kirin. Melees usually just follow around chasing after the NM attempting to hit it and gain TP for WS. Its not needed though, but it helps. I've seen Kirin go down very fast due to the amount of Rng and Blms available. Even some LS' just kite the 4 gods while Blms and Rng kill kirin while being kited and casting stone5/ga4.

To answer the question, if you want to be a "good" melee who is active in main alliance all the time, be a Rng. You can do high damage, be very helpful ie. throwing winds on gods, Shadowbinding if needed, and even tank some HNM/Gods if it's needed.


Also basically, if you need to use sleep potions or what not, then you/your LS probably isnt ready to be fighting that NM. I can see using remedies on jormungands aoe paralyze.. cause thats just really annoying, or antidotes for Serket maybe.

[sudo]

bst = solo....

hrm....

http://yarrthepirate.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2718


I really wish they change smn to where they can work vs Kited mobs as DD also. I mean having the mob move 5 feet and be out of range, bp timer wasted, MP sucked, and worse avatar stuck out, or avatar taking 30 seconds to get to the right distance cause of pathfinding stupidity really needs to be fixed somehow.

But ya in general icemage is pretty much correct.

though I'd like to change the "spectator" aspect of his job break down list because you will almost ALWAYS need extra non-allianced pts for add / agro control. Allianced brd's are not good enough vs a lot of HNM's extra agro.

Bst are very good at this job and it doesn't seem like anyone's remembered that they are needed for a few fights too. Not as DD of course (though our pets are decent DD in themselves , and yes, I mean HQ summoned broths, Not RNG super DD lv but not exactly off the map either. an IT spider on bst 2hr is a mighty nice pet too. I'm not sure who'd do more damage, Rng or IT spider... )

Spectators are going to be needed quite often for adds. One alliance won't be enough vs a lot of these things.

Oh ya, also for kited mobs, bst pets can run and hit the mob even if the mob is moving. Pets are not under the same contraints as pc's for melee hitting moving things.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by kumaeru
Also basically, if you need to use sleep potions or what not, then you/your LS probably isnt ready to be fighting that NM. I can see using remedies on jormungands aoe paralyze.. cause thats just really annoying, or antidotes for Serket maybe.

If that was pointed at me, I clearly mentioned it wasn't nessicary.

However, as a DRK v.s. Kirin (When Stun is void), you can either TP up quickly by Sleep Potions, or TP up a lot slower by normal hits. Which is better? Sleep potions, obviously.

[Kayoto]

A well-equipped SAM/THF will be among the top damage dealers on HNMs (Above or on par with MNK, below RNG, and BLM damage varies a lot with equipment). Chi Blast is a 3 min. timer for ~700-1200+ damage (depending on the MNK's MND gear), and Meditate is a 3 min. timer for 800-1200+ SATA+WS (depending on the SAM's STR gear). So.. no, not everyone else is a 'spectator.'

[Icemage]

Um... I'd really like to see proof of a 1200-damage SAM WS from anyone on any of the harder HNM or gods. As far as I've seen, even Tachi: Kasha doesn't hit for better than 1K even on XP-worthy monsters.

Sneak Attack is nice, but doesn't really add all that much damage when subbed (all it does is guarantee the first hit of the WS lands as a weak critical hit), and Trick Attack adds no damage bonus at all when subbed - all it gives is hate transferral.

That, and trying to land SATA anything on a kited enemy is enormously tricky. :P


Icemage

[poweryoga]

its possible to break 1k dmg from sam WSes.

http://ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47889

Really expensive though. However even if sams do say 800 damage per SATA it'd be pretty good damage output considering they get tp relatively quickly.

[Brennon]

~700-1200+(depending on the MNK's MND gear),

this is my range for chi blast right now, and i don't have good MND gear, nor have i blasted with any etudes yet. No kirin osode, no kirin pole, no suzaku sune-ate, . . . hell i don't even have all the best MND gear that is bought on AH yet. (though, i'm constantly camping the AH trying to find it, and i'll likely start getting the god gear soon as well) . . . so i'm hoping that my range does up by a good bit when i Do get those gears.

[Mithrael]

To land sneak attack on a kited enemy, the tank need only stop for 10-15 seconds. It's simple, the person who starts the skillchain calls in chat "Light Incoming," the tank stops, first person goes, second person sneak+ws for light (or dark depending), tank takes off. Kirin doesn't do so much damage that the tank can't hold it for 15 seconds.

Sneak does add an reasonable amount of DMG when subbed for 1-hit renkei closers like DRK. Spinning slash on Kirin without sneak can be in the double digits depending on how the dice rolls. With sneak attack you see more respectable numbers (400-800 for me, but I'm not 75 yet).

The reason for sleep pots, as ZQM mentioned, is for efficiency. Can you do it without, of course you can. However, a DRK cannot gain 100% TP in less than a minute meleeing with a THF sub even with 100% accuracy. It's not possible given the delay of the weapon. However, you can have it easily if you don't mind spending 2 or 3k gil (a drop in the bucket) for sleep pots. Why not, anyway? The RNG are spending plenty of money for the fight, there is no reason the other melee shouldn't be willing to spend 9K for a stack of sleeping potions.

[Izual]

Originally posted by Icemage
Um... I'd really like to see proof of a 1200-damage SAM WS from anyone on any of the harder HNM or gods. As far as I've seen, even Tachi: Kasha doesn't hit for better than 1K even on XP-worthy monsters.


Agree completely, SAM can hit pretty hard on ws sometimes but I've never seen numbers in 1200-ish range consistently.


Originally posted by Icemage
Sneak Attack is nice, but doesn't really add all that much damage when subbed (all it does is guarantee the first hit of the WS lands as a weak critical hit), and Trick Attack adds no damage bonus at all when subbed - all it gives is hate transferral.


Definitely disagree here. Sneak from /thf does almost nothing for a regular hit, but it can make a huge difference on some weaponskills, particularly 1-hit ws with a high damage modifier. It also seems much more evident on very strong HNM. When my ls fights Tiamat or Jormungand I fight as drk/thf and use SA spin slash on them. I couple times sneak has missed and it usually hits for 300-500 damage. When sneak connects, I usually average 1100-1300 damage. That's a massive increase by any standards.


Originally posted by Icemage
That, and trying to land SATA anything on a kited enemy is enormously tricky. :p


Yeah it's a huge pain in the ass:p There's a trick to it though, really you just need some experience doing it and you'll get pretty good. My regular SA still gets jacked up a lot but I almost never miss SA ws anymore.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Mithrael
Kirin doesn't do so much damage that the tank can't hold it for 15 seconds.

Actually, back-to-back unresisted Whirlwinds/Sandstorms is around 2k damage in just a couple of seconds. Although PLDs don't have to worry much since they have high MND and a lot higher HP, as a WAR (And I'm sure NIN as well) this is what kills me most of the time. :(

[Izual]

There's no reason for a tank to ever stop running in Kirin fight, unless he doesn't have a choice (bound, slept etc.). Kirin's spells give /thf melee more than enough time to get a ws off. If you're really fast, you can also do it when he does the special ability 'heat breath' because it's casting time is a bit longer than his other abilities. Of course, there is always the possibility that he will turn mid-cast, but if you're watching what is going on around you, it's usually not to hard to time it up right.

[Mithrael]

Perhaps. I've only done 5 Kiring fights at this point, so I can't claim that I'm a pro. I've yet to see a tank die due to stopping, but it's certainly possible. In either case, it's not impossible (nor impractical) to SA or SATA close renkeis on Kirin.

[Asherek]

Originally posted by TheMidg
All other melee subbed in for spirits within


Not necessarily true. :sweat:

We have our melees (THF, DRK, WAR) do more then competant damage on Gods (excluding Kirin) without too much trouble. They can perform some very decent Renkeis which in turn help BLM's MB on Gods.

It's very nice to see when 5 BLM all MB on Genbu at the same time. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Kailea-D
I would not consider NIN as a tank..... the only reason NINs tank is because of Utsi and with out that they cant tank at all where as PLD and WAR can tank with out any skills other than voke

You have zero clue about what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

NIN is an excellent tank; NIN, WAR and PLD all have their uses as endgame tanks. Get some real experience and then come back please. :spin:

and I am sorry but RNG is not "melee" it is range, yes RNG does physical damage but it should not be called a Melee class. Melee is a term used for upclose combat...and that is defenatly what RNGs do NOT do.

For all intents and purposes, RNG are "melee". Don't get technical with the specific semantics, this is merely used to group the various classes into categories. They don't cast magic, don't perform support and don't intentionally tank :D , so they're melee.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by Icemage
Um... I'd really like to see proof of a 1200-damage SAM WS from anyone on any of the harder HNM or gods. As far as I've seen, even Tachi: Kasha doesn't hit for better than 1K even on XP-worthy monsters.

Sneak Attack is nice, but doesn't really add all that much damage when subbed (all it does is guarantee the first hit of the WS lands as a weak critical hit), and Trick Attack adds no damage bonus at all when subbed - all it gives is hate transferral.

That, and trying to land SATA anything on a kited enemy is enormously tricky. :P


Icemage
At even level 69. Used on same mob. SAM/WAR Gekko at 300% = 650 damage. SAM/THF Gekko at 300% with same equipment = 1015 damage. Me thinks it's a bit more than insuring a critical hit on WS. Mob was IT+ Dragonfly type in Dragon's Aery.
I've also seen a 1,400 Kasha on Genbu XD Not from me though.

[Halato]

Melee's do better than the pictures most people paint... but they have to have top-notch gear to do 1/4th as well as a ranger or blm.

The thing is... most melee jobs can put up similar numbers to ranger (or better) with their weaponskill against a god or HNM, But rangers can deal 100+ damage a pop on each attack, and melees just don't come close.

The truth of the matter is that ranger is a broken job. It's leaps and bounds above every other damager in any situation, and they can sub Ninja (the most defensive sub job in the game) and GAIN DAMAGE DEALING ABILITY FROM IT in multiple ways.

On top of that, they can attack from outside AoE range. Who's brilliant idea was it to make attacks from a safe distance also the strongest in the game?

Have a battle you can't win? Idiot! You needed more rangers.

To this day, I can't figure out if it's the ranger job that screws the other melees, or ninja sub.

[ZQM]

That's like comparing a BLM to a RDM on who's going to MB for more damage. Each job has a different role.

WAR's do the biggest damage WS onto the tank. ~1.3k damage coupled with ~800 damage Spirit's Within at the start and tank won't lose hate very easily throughout the whole fight. Can a RNG do that? And also means a RNG can go full out without having to worrying about getting hate.

DRK's can stun. While BLM can stun, when a mob starts casting -ga right after the BLM's start to MB, DRK's stun is irriplacable.

And something else I found interesting was that a RNG posted on another forum how a WAR was the highest damage dealer when parsed against Seiyru and Suzaku, while RNG won on Genbu and Byakko. In the case of this, the WAR had madrigral to help hit rate. Madrigal, Sushi, and Aggressor and a WAR wouldn't miss very often (I don't miss often as is with only Aggressor, never had Madrigral nor do I want to use a 3k food for a 5 minute fight. People make a big deal about God's evasion and it's really not that bad), Berserk and Double Attack for added damage, and add in having the strongest WS in the game and WAR's damage deffinatly wouldn't be bad

[Halato]

I think you missed the point:

That's like comparing a BLM to a RDM on who's going to MB for more damage. Each job has a different role.

WAR's do the biggest damage WS onto the tank. ~1.3k damage coupled with ~800 damage Spirit's Within at the start and tank won't lose hate very easily throughout the whole fight. Can a RNG do that? And also means a RNG can go full out without having to worrying about getting hate.

The simple fact of the matter is that no one really cares when a ranger gets hate at that level if they can shake it. They get 9 evaded hits before it even becomes an issue. If the mob has gravity, it's a non issue, the ranger doesn't even have to stop attacking. Shadowbind will stop a god in its tracks also.

And as far as a ranger being able to go "all out" after a warrior lays 1.3k damage onto the tank with a SATA... A ranger can basically erase that 1.3k whenever they want with sharpshot > barrage > weaponskill.... and then be very near to weaponskilling again.

If you parse a ranger and warrior against a god, and the war comes out on top, then it was a summoned god from Kirin, the ranger is holding back, or there is an immense equipment difference.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Halato
The simple fact of the matter is that no one really cares when a ranger gets hate at that level if they can shake it. They get 9 evaded hits before it even becomes an issue. If the mob has gravity, it's a non issue, the ranger doesn't even have to stop attacking. Shadowbind will stop a god in its tracks also.

9 shadows wear rather quickly against Gods without Haste (That's even if you can get off :Ichi in time, a God turning to you and Double attack while your mid shot won't give you a lot of time at all to get Ichi off). And it can become an issue before then. I'm sure the RNG would love to have a Diaga/Triple Attack>Razor Fang, Poisonga>Heabutt, Fang Rush, or Suzaku's/Seiyru's 2hr activating onto them. Most of those put a tank into Red HP, those are going to kill the RNG (2hr's depending on how fast stun/bind+run away happens).

And you're also leaving BLMs out of the picture.

And as far as a ranger being able to go "all out" after a warrior lays 1.3k damage onto the tank with a SATA... A ranger can basically erase that 1.3k whenever they want with sharpshot > barrage > weaponskill.... and then be very near to weaponskilling again.

With 1.3k onto the tank and 800 from Spirit's within, that voids the RNG going all out (RNG WSs are extremely weak (And while Slugshot is "ok", you're also risking missing if you don't have a BRD) and barrage isn't all that good when talking about burst damage. EXP they rape, but this isn't EXP). Then you add in everything else the tank does void out the RNG normal attack. Can the RNG do that and not get hate without 1.3k damage onto the tank? No.

[Halato]

You are right, warriors are the superior job.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Halato
You are right, warriors are the superior job.

Thank you for completely ignoring the whole point I was trying to make, never mentioning one class being supeior to the other but stating they have two different roles.

[Halato]

Look, I'm sorry for being an asshole about it... I know I was. I'm sorry.

But every melee has a story to tell...

Sam/Thf can do a weaponskill + SATA every minute, and if they seriously beef up their STR, the numbers are very impressive.

War/thf can put up the same numbers, slightly less often, and deal better damage between weaponskills.

3 mnks can take one alliance slot and deal 1100-1500 damage per minute and spread the hate between 3 people.

Drg/thf can deal moderate SATA damage and they have a pet that actually seems to ignore mob DEF *some* for more impressive DoT than anyone gives them credit for.

Drk/thf gains TP a bit slower than a war/thf but they trade that for having a stun.

All do much better than anyone gives them credit for... Yet, there's not an HNMLS on the planet that wouldn't trade 2 of any of those for an extra rng/nin. They deal spectacular damage, can modify their hate level easily, can kite better than anyone if the need arises (they have shadowbind and are at range to start), and can negate enough number of attacks that would kill most of the above jobs (6 at a minimum).

I have this theory that squeenix balanced the jobs by damage/durability/utility. If there was some way to equate those 3 factors, rangers simply blow all other jobs out of the water. That's what I mean about ranger being a broken job.

[ZQM]

And I agree. RNG is better in the long run. However, like you said, "All do much better than anyone gives them credit for."

I'm in at the start of the fight, I make Darkness for BLMs to burst and I place huge hate onto the tank. Then I disband for a RNG. In those 3-10 seconds, I am better then a RNG in that situation. I do more damag ethen they could do, allow the BLMs to burst, and place it all onto the tank. Ofcoarse, a RNG will easily outdamage that later, have shadowbind for 2hr, ect ect and will be the "best" looking at the whole fight, but WAR/THF still does shine even if it's only for a couple of seconds. A /THF at the start of the fight, skillchaining, and disbanding for a RNG WILL be better then RNG in all the time.

Ofcoarse, that's only Gods. Anything kited, RNG wins easily over all jobs, but in those situations WAR should be kiting. Against Faf/Nidhogg, RNG will do a lot more damage however it's arguable that BLM is better against them and melees create light for BLMs (Ofcoarse, RNG creates light but what I mean is that it's arguable if 2 WAR|DRK + 2 RNG is better then 4 RNG in that stiution) and in this situation a RNG getting hate is a LOT more dangerous then any of the above mentioned. And on Aspid, PLD in Koeing and Joyeuse tends to be best damage dealer. :p (Though that depends more on your strategy).

[kuu]

Except maybe the new dragons. Rangers are worthless more or less there.

Sam>all

as someone blabs out the first words when you ask about a so and so dragon.

OF course having solid backup works wonders too.

[kumaeru]

It does get rather annoying however when many melee are being replaced by Rng in main alliance in god/hnm fights.

And well I know Rng helps take down things rather quickly, which is all nice, but for how much work others put into their jobs and have a Rng replace them can be frustrating. Kirin took 43 mins last I did it from pop to drop (before this Steam Cleaner BS), using 6 Rng and 4 Blm. I actually chose to use a friends Rng instead of playing my own 75 Drk, and /follow "chase" kirin for TP.

New CoP dragons are hard, and Rng seem to only give it TP more than anything. Sam's do help a ton on Dragons.

Warriors are very good at hate gain with their WS' and enimty. But besides Gods/Kirin and minor HNM I dont see many War's actually tanking the big 3. A 2k dmg Steel Cyclone is certainly something worth looking at when killing Fafnir.

It is hard for a /thf to SATA WS onto a god/HNM yes. And its stupid when they lose TP cause mob goes away. However if the player knows anything about what he's doing, he will know when to use WS. KB still usually is just a Spirits Within fight anyways.


The "Classic" Kirin fight was to aspir all it's MP while kiting, and when it was 0, to then tank it and kill it like any other god. It is easy for Pld to tank. Ga4 and Stone5 is usually the problem with Kirin.

The New way of Kirin killing is to kite the entire time and kill with nukes and Rng's. While having Mnks or Sam Chi Blast / Spirit Within by swaping spots in alliance when ready. And having high damage melee getting TP and renkei'ing for bursts.

Although Rng can do 3 way Light rather easily, and Blms can just burst on that.

w/e though.. taru drk XD, least I got stun.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by kumaeru
But besides Gods/Kirin and minor HNM I dont see many War's actually tanking the big 3.

You mean the 3 Kings (Aspid, KB, Nidhogg)?

Aspid I'd say WAR is the best. The extra shadow lost by subbing NIN is eaily outweighed by maxing out haste. Also, WAR easily beats NIN in hate thanks to a massive amount of enmity. NIN normally can't pull it off of me. While EXP generally turns people off on how much +enmity means, you realize it when you start tanking HNM. Stacking it on, I'm normally up there with PLDs in hate when kiting Kirin.

However, this just allows WAR to build up hate extremly well. In the case of Fafnir/Nidhogg, you need snap-aggro instead of built up aggro, which is where PLD easily excells over WAR (And spamming cures onto oneself is massive, massive hate). Although I've never tanked him, watching the PLDs make me realize that all of the +enmity in the world doesn't matter if you don't have several tools to grab it back with. Not that WAR can't tank it, but in this case PLD is so much better. I'd still like to try at some point though. :)

In the case of KB, always asleep when he pops. :zzz:

[Bigbird]

Rng > War!

[ZQM]

First time I've parsed a God run, we did 1 Seiryu and 1 Suzaku.

Suzaku:

Nny: 2523
WS damage: 1673

RNG:
Rooney: 4390
Vidaneai: 4161

BLM:
Sydok: 3168
Havocdemon: 3298
Nivlakian: 2425

SMN (Two SMNs there but both Levi's come up as one character):
Leviathan:2252

So as seen, RNG owned him (Which would be expected, since it's a Bird) but I hardly did less then then BLMs and even beat 1. Also beat the two SMNs combined

Seiryu:
Nny:1935
WS Damage:991

RNG:
Rooney:2744
Ishizu:2437

BLM:
Sydok:2253
Havocdemon:4455
Nivlakian:3885

SMN:
Leviathan:2575

Why bring up my WS damage? I was paralyzed for my first Steel Cyclone against Seiyru, cutting it's damage basically in half. Also, thanks to another Deadly Shriek at the end, I wasn't able to do a third WS. If I wasn't paralyzed in those two situations, my damaged would have been upped a lot. Hypothetically speaking, if I did 1673 WS damage like I did against Suzaku (682 WS damage difference), I would have done 2617...more then the SMNs, one of the BLMs, and one of the RNGs...and only 100 behind the other RNG.

I'd also like to point out I wasn't built for this. We were low on members. I was built for being in at the start, Skillchaining, then disbanding for a RNG. If I were to be built for a whole fight instead of being in for 5 seconds, my damage would have done a lot more. Next time I'll be bringing proper equipment and parse that.

So yeah, I wouldn't dismiss WAR. :)

Here's log: http://www.pplsdbz.net/~zquestionmark/ffxi/021005-Report.rtf

[Halato]

Well, if we examine what you posted above, we see that rangers attack from range (no paralysis for them), deal more damage, and can still sub Ninja without losing damage.

Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that?

I'm ok with them dealing a lot better damage than everyone else... But giving them attacks from outside of AoE range and the most defensive sub in the game just seems overboard.