View Full Version : A message from the thieves.
Voila!
10-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Keep the monster still damn't.
It's not like that's very hard, as you'd be doing SATA on the tank...and WARs can hold hate off tank just fine.
Kain99
10-09-2004, 03:58 PM
Dunno what you're talking about...I keep hate on my War just fine when I'm tanking and the mob rarely moves.
It's not like that's very hard, as you'd be doing SATA on the tank...and WARs can hold hate off tank just fine.
What he said.
Voila!
10-09-2004, 09:06 PM
Sure sure, just keep the monsters still.
Seldzar
10-10-2004, 03:33 AM
lol I think he means dont move your character when your tanking or helping the thf sata the tank >.>
Lamentation
10-10-2004, 06:05 AM
Yeah, that would be it. It's amazeing how easy it is to forget as a war that those little adjustments to move the camera a hair or what have you can easily shift the monster's tail way out of alignment for your friendly neighborhood thief...
SAVAGE
10-11-2004, 11:08 AM
I think this is towards all melee that voke first for thiefs!
Voila!
10-11-2004, 03:12 PM
It's for all the tanks, and back up tanks, that randomly provoke the monster EVEN THOUGH MY MACRO SAYS: "PREPARING TO SNEAK ATTACK Y'HEAR!? KEEP 'ER STEADY!"
It doesn't actually say that, because I'm not actually an ass, but that's the gist of it. There should be one tank, a paladin, a warrior, or a ninja. You guys don't need to share tanking duties with monks or samurai, you just make warriors look weak.
Seriously, just moving it a little bit throws everything off.
Bigokk McGock
10-12-2004, 05:21 AM
Some one needs to make a post in the THF forum that says "ANNOUNCE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO SATA YOU IDIOTS".
Then we'll call it even?
Voila!
10-12-2004, 10:08 AM
I dare you, they're so stuck up in there. Let some air out of their tires. :rolleyes:
eh voila instead of telling a bunch of end game WAR's to play their job correctly... you know what it doesn't matter, just piss off.
Voila!
10-22-2004, 11:50 AM
Thank you for reviving my week old thread.
eh voila instead of telling a bunch of end game WAR's to play their job correctly... you know what it doesn't matter, just piss off.
Pussy ranger, stay in your place, the background.
Just because I get parties faster then you, do more damage then you, and am overall more useful then you, doesn't mean you need to get uptight.
Voila!
10-24-2004, 10:41 AM
I'd rather have a bard.
Naota1369
10-24-2004, 10:48 AM
Yes...... because a bard is a perfect replacement for a ranger in a DD spot ......./clap :rolleyes:
flipmazzi
10-24-2004, 09:53 PM
Just because I get parties faster then you, do more damage then you, and am overall more useful then you, doesn't mean you need to get uptight.
You clearly have somehow missed the overall concept of this game.
Elsurion
10-24-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by flipmazzi
You clearly have somehow missed the overall concept of this game.
To be at fast as possible at 75? Being still Rank1 (Lastokans like the Gillsellers on Levi?)
Just because I get parties faster then you, do more damage then you, and am overall more useful then you, doesn't mean you need to get uptight.
Just because we aren't unorigonal newbs who pick the easiest job in the game doesn't mean we are uptight. Stick to the background you stupid jew.
Yes...... because a bard is a perfect replacement for a ranger in a DD spot ......./clap
Stfu, if you want a DD, get a warrior, nuff said. We don't need some fruit with a bow messing up our hate controle. Bards aide more in battle, most rangers are the first to run if anyone dies.
Lmnop
10-25-2004, 08:38 PM
This thread is off topic. you guys are all pointless.
TheMidg
10-25-2004, 08:52 PM
WHM is the true damage dealer :thumbsup:
Elsurion
10-25-2004, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by ddg
Just because we aren't unorigonal newbs who pick the easiest job in the game doesn't mean we are uptight. Stick to the background you stupid jew.
Stfu, if you want a DD, get a warrior, nuff said. We don't need some fruit with a bow messing up our hate controle. Bards aide more in battle, most rangers are the first to run if anyone dies.
Ok, which drug didn't you take?
To clarify, war is the easyiest job in the game. I never had leveled a job that fast as i did with war. In the Money department. Armor and 1H Axes and 2H Axes are cheap.
And ranger isn't that easy as you war-fanboy thinks, it' takes more then a provoke here and then to screw up your pld hatemanagement ;) I kick a war or /war who screws up the hatemanagement.
Ranger costs a shitload of money, like a nin. Also you have to pay close attention what is the actual hatebalance, since ranger hasn't that much def and can get ripped fast.
And a War isn't a top DD, it's medicore. Also i would take a THF, BLM, RNG, DRK, SAM, SNM before i take a MNK,WAR,BST, DRG. Unless the job is allready in my party. All i need is a tank (pld, nin or war/nin) and a /war for the Hatemanagement.
This thread is off topic. you guys are all pointless
Thanks for adding to the pointlessness dumbass.
To clarify, war is the easyiest job in the game. I never had leveled a job that fast as i did with war. In the Money department. Armor and 1H Axes and 2H Axes are cheap.
Armor for warriors is not cheap after 25, with some exeptions.
And ranger isn't that easy as you war-fanboy thinks, it' takes more then a provoke here and then to screw up your pld hatemanagement I kick a war or /war who screws up the hatemanagement.
I said I'd rather have a war on my team, how does that make me a "war-fanboy"? Please use more commas and periods please. The transition from "hatemanagement" to- "I kick a war" is made with no punctuation. Therefor you stink and your parents beat you. Your arguement sucks and only makes me dislike ranger more.
since ranger hasn't that much def and can get ripped fast.
So stay in the background and shut up. Learn how to use proper grammer while your at it.
And a War isn't a top DD, it's medicore. Also i would take a THF, BLM, RNG, DRK, SAM, SNM before i take a MNK,WAR,BST, DRG. Unless the job is allready in my party. All i need is a tank (pld, nin or war/nin) and a /war for the Hatemanagement.
You're an idiot. Samurai are useless in every party, it doesn't take a whole new class just to skill chain. Summoner sucks, nuff said. I agree about the others though, but you fucked your arguement by throwing thief in there, idiot. MNK, WAR, and DRG can do alot more for a party than a ranger can. You may out damage them some of the time, but if the hate gets wild, you need all the provokes you can get to keep it still.
My milkshake > yours.
Elsurion
10-26-2004, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by ddg
1. Armor for warriors is not cheap after 25, with some exeptions.
2. I said I'd rather have a war on my team, how does that make me a "war-fanboy"? Please use more commas and periods please. The transition from "hatemanagement" to- "I kick a war" is made with no punctuation. Therefor you stink and your parents beat you. Your arguement sucks and only makes me dislike ranger more.
3. So stay in the background and shut up. Learn how to use proper grammer while your at it.
4. You're an idiot. Samurai are useless in every party, it doesn't take a whole new class just to skill chain. Summoner sucks, nuff said. I agree about the others though, but you fucked your arguement by throwing thief in there, idiot. MNK, WAR, and DRG can do alot more for a party than a ranger can. You may out damage them some of the time, but if the hate gets wild, you need all the provokes you can get to keep it still.
5. My milkshake > yours.
1. Lol, the Chain Suit is lv24, and that one is cheap. This 35k to 40k is very cheap, also you get every single gil back when you sell it a bit higher. I did this 3times so far.
2. All your answers are like war is the only good Job in the game, all other jobs stinks. And i will still kick a war or /war who screws the hatemanagement between the tank and the thf or /thf. Since unneded provokes are not needed.
3. You really know what a Ranger does and where he stays, do you.
4. So i doubt you ever played this game, since you say Samurai stinks and does nothing. Samurai is the best TP generator Job in the whole game, not even Ranger can cope with a SAM in this department.
And you wanna do as many Skillchains in a fight as you can do. Samurai is a good SC Starter for Distortion linked with a SATA+Viper Bite. This combo does around 1k DMG raw and another 1k DMG with a MB. This one is loved midgames.
Also a THF does more DMG then a DRG can do, THF might do his High DMG every minute, but try and beat up to 1k raw DMG from a THF with a DRG in the samefight and time.
As for the records, THF does normaly 1st or 2nd most DMG in a Fight up to 55 (I don't know how it will go further up). He needs that to place the hate on the tank, the mob won't go wild if you play your part in the party, and for that is a THF needed, otherway the mob will wander :P
SMN sucks, ok you didn't played with one i asume. Otherwhise you would know what they can do. Hmm, Stoneskinga, Blinkga, other nice -ga eveything useless.
And sure a MNK, WAR and DRG can do more DMG then a RNG, go dream on. I always outdmg every other DD Job when i play Ranger except a proper played THF, then i'm even with him.
5. And yes? What will you say here?
neighbortaru
10-26-2004, 05:11 AM
dude! hate management is two words not one. stop putting them together. thank you.
as for WAR not being a DD, I'm afraid I have to disagree. If outfitted appropriately WARs play very well in the DD department (there's a HUGE thread about this started by the infamous MeleeFighter).
ddg, you sure have some warped ideas about this game. read the strategy guide much?
Elsurion
10-26-2004, 05:54 AM
I didn't say they aren't but they are not the best, they are medicore.
Someone explain wtf is this post about?
It's a month old(this thread)... and we somehow turned the subject to 'whether or not a WAR can pwnz the world with their almighty Great Axe'
1st off, yes it's wrong for Voila to come up in a WAR forum, and started flaming about no one knows how to SATA. It's not always the WAR's fault to start with. I have seen SMN standing at my SATA slave spot for some god damn reason, I think it was because he casted the almight group haste, so he needed to REST. To be exact, everyone made the same mistake, tanks like to dance around, non-SATA slave likes to stand at the spot for no reason...
Then, ddg, calm the hell down, will you? For a fact, WAR's DD ability is well below a DRK, MNK, and your hated RNG. WAR is about flexibility, you can invite a WAR for tank, or a DD... as a DD, WAR is useful for their ability to wield multiple weapons at B rank+, as for damage dealing though, WAR isn't that much special compare to a 1400+ Sidewinder, 5 hits all the time MNK, etc
DD isn't all about KILLING the monster, it's about what you can offer to the party, that's why a PT consist of Tank, DD, Healer and Nuker(Teamwork, Do you have it?). I personally would group WAR and SAM in the same category, which is the skillchain man: SAM has fast TP gain, and WAR has a lot of weapon to choose from.(Don't tell me your war only use 1 weapon now lol)
Gumbercules
10-26-2004, 06:41 AM
I'm a DRK and I can safely tell you WAR is a much better DD for a large portion of the game, mainly until we get to L3 SC.
Gryff
10-26-2004, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Elsurion
Ok, which drug didn't you take?
To clarify, war is the easyiest job in the game. I never had leveled a job that fast as i did with war. In the Money department. Armor and 1H Axes and 2H Axes are cheap.
And ranger isn't that easy as you war-fanboy thinks, it' takes more then a provoke here and then to screw up your pld hatemanagement ;) I kick a war or /war who screws up the hatemanagement.
Ranger costs a shitload of money, like a nin. Also you have to pay close attention what is the actual hatebalance, since ranger hasn't that much def and can get ripped fast.
And a War isn't a top DD, it's medicore. Also i would take a THF, BLM, RNG, DRK, SAM, SNM before i take a MNK,WAR,BST, DRG. Unless the job is allready in my party. All i need is a tank (pld, nin or war/nin) and a /war for the Hatemanagement.
War is easy? you seem to think fast exp is easy exp, tell that to your neighbourhood ninja or ranger.
As for war being cheap *_*
let me know when woodsville and juggernaut, haubergeon, sniper rings, are cheap! and thats not even a full list of endgame war equipment.
As for it being easy? no, war is frequently sata bitch or doing sata themselves, there are no WTFBBQPOPCORN jobs when they are played correctly by a reasonably able player.
As for mnk and war on your "only if nothing else" list ~_~
mnk and war are two of the best DD's in the game.
Rampage, which wars get at 55, can top 1k damage, sure you won't see a 1.2k-1.4k rampage ending a light SC, but wars get tp at least 50% quicker than a dark knight, even with comparable equipment.
Not only that, but a good war will always outdamage a good dark or monk ( comparable skill, and eq ), and added to parser logs is damage enhanced by warcry for other members and also any breaks the war uses.
Before your level 55 ass tries shouting me down, check out my job levels and think that maybe, just maybe seeing as you havn't even got 1/2 the exp for one job to 75, let alone nearly three and then add another 100k in merit point exp, you will realise I speak from long hard experience.
I used to have a shitty attitude towards war also but after log parsing hundreds of battles and dozens of exp parties I know differently, and my attitude towards a lot of other jobs has shifted as well.
As for the moron who said summoner sucks *_*
the most boring job in the game, yes.
Sucks? hell no.
Summoner is one of the best jobs to have at endgame, its just getting there thats painful.
Unholy Prince
10-26-2004, 11:45 AM
So many misconceptions put into this thread.
First of all, Voila, whos already shown the type of person he is on another thread on this board, comes and starts this, for no real reason.
To the guys who said Sam, drk, and smn before war and mnk, um, have you seen any mnk or war dps after 55? Rampage makes wars own, they are top DDs in the game, Mnk have the best DPS in the game. Drk are the "mediocre" DDs until 65 and 66 where they get their great power, Cross Reaper and Spinning Slash. Smn is usually a healer in a pt, great DD vs HNMs and stuff,but.. they don't replace a DD. Sam? Great for 2 renkei parties, but otherwise, terrible DPS, terrible damage. Drg who you said you wouldn't take, do more damage then Sam. Any TP gain? a good thf, war, or mnk can gain enough tp to SC every fight with a Rng. So what you can't go the second you hit 100%, half your WSs miss at 100% TP anyways.
War easiest job? Having to know how to do two jobs, to be flexible, to change your role at the blink of an eye? I wouldn't call that easy. No job is "easy". If its easy then your not playing to the best of your abilities.
War isn't more expensive then rng or nin in the melee department, but haveing to hold 2 sets of gear isn't cheap. Factor in Snipers, haubergeon for the DD factor alone, and thats a lot. Then add a tank suit, and gear to lvl 3 Subjobs...
I don't want to offend anyone, and please don't take this the wrong way, but it really does irk me when lowbies come on and tell the end gamers what to do or how to do it, or act like they know more then people who've experienced the game. At least do your research a little more before saying such things.:spin:
Originally posted by Gumbercules
I'm a DRK and I can safely tell you WAR is a much better DD for a large portion of the game, mainly until we get to L3 SC.
Wow! A smart, non-egotistical DRK. I didn't know they exited. :p
As weather or not if WARs our top-tier damage dealers, I let my sig do the talking. :)
Voila!
10-26-2004, 11:58 AM
Don't blame me you're all idiots. I flamed nobody.
I gave you some rope, and guess what you did with it?
Darkedge
10-26-2004, 01:19 PM
What you gave us was the message your observations were correct, and other people's experiences were not.
Unholy Prince
10-26-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by ZQM
Wow! A smart, non-egotistical DRK. I didn't know they exited. :p
As weather or not if WARs our top-tier damage dealers, I let my sig do the talking. :)
Lol so true. To Gumbercules, i respect you very much for being able to make that statment.:handsdown
1. Lol, the Chain Suit is lv24, and that one is cheap. This 35k to 40k is very cheap, also you get every single gil back when you sell it a bit higher. I did this 3times so far.
Please learn to spell, and if you're going to use computer talk , atleast use it correctly. "lv24"? You mean "lvl"? As in "level"? Chain mail is not cheap either, not for the average player. The full suit on Unicorn cost around 60k, that's not cheap for a level 24 warrior.
2. All your answers are like war is the only good Job in the game, all other jobs stinks. And i will still kick a war or /war who screws the hatemanagement between the tank and the thf or /thf. Since unneded provokes are not needed.
Stop rambling, make some sense for gods sake. I never once said warrior was the only good job in the game, you're an idiot. I don't even use warrior, unless I'm subbing it. "Hate management" is two words idiot. No one would join your party anyways, you can't even spell Hate management.
3. You really know what a Ranger does and where he stays, do you.
You mean I don't know what a Ranger does and where he stays? You fucked up again dude. Rangers stay far away and shoot arrows, occasionaly they use a Weapon skill, THAT'S ALL. Your poor typing skills are losing your fight again.
4. So i doubt you ever played this game, since you say Samurai stinks and does nothing. Samurai is the best TP generator Job in the whole game, not even Ranger can cope with a SAM in this department.
Yeah man, I've NEVER EVER PLAYED THIS GAME. I just post on the forums and prove idiots like you wrong. It's pretty sad that someone like me who has never played the game can prove you wrong in so many ways. Samurai gain lots of TP...... Wow? Unless the whole party can effectively complete a skill chain, Samurai is useless. Department? Dude, it's a job trait that they gain an extra 4-5 TP per hit, not a "department".
SMN sucks, ok you didn't played with one i asume. Otherwhise you would know what they can do. Hmm, Stoneskinga, Blinkga, other nice -ga eveything useless.
I didn't play with this one? http://www.dailygrammar.com/.
I won't even touch the rest of what you said....."stoneskinga".....
And sure a MNK, WAR and DRG can do more DMG then a RNG, go dream on. I always outdmg every other DD Job when i play Ranger except a proper played THF, then i'm even with him.
Before you said you out damage thief? Like I said before, you probably do a bit more damage. Monk, Warrior, and Dragoon are more usefull. Their job traits are more usefull during battle. We've settled this part, so stop bringing it up.
5. And yes? What will you say here?
http://www.dailygrammar.com/
So many misconceptions put into this thread.
First of all, Voila, whos already shown the type of person he is on another thread on this board, comes and starts this, for no real reason.
To the guys who said Sam, drk, and smn before war and mnk, um, have you seen any mnk or war dps after 55? Rampage makes wars own, they are top DDs in the game, Mnk have the best DPS in the game. Drk are the "mediocre" DDs until 65 and 66 where they get their great power, Cross Reaper and Spinning Slash. Smn is usually a healer in a pt, great DD vs HNMs and stuff,but.. they don't replace a DD. Sam? Great for 2 renkei parties, but otherwise, terrible DPS, terrible damage. Drg who you said you wouldn't take, do more damage then Sam. Any TP gain? a good thf, war, or mnk can gain enough tp to SC every fight with a Rng. So what you can't go the second you hit 100%, half your WSs miss at 100% TP anyways.
War easiest job? Having to know how to do two jobs, to be flexible, to change your role at the blink of an eye? I wouldn't call that easy. No job is "easy". If its easy then your not playing to the best of your abilities.
War isn't more expensive then rng or nin in the melee department, but haveing to hold 2 sets of gear isn't cheap. Factor in Snipers, haubergeon for the DD factor alone, and thats a lot. Then add a tank suit, and gear to lvl 3 Subjobs...
I don't want to offend anyone, and please don't take this the wrong way, but it really does irk me when lowbies come on and tell the end gamers what to do or how to do it, or act like they know more then people who've experienced the game. At least do your research a little more before saying such things.
Spark notes anyone? http://www.sparknotes.com/idiot-forum-whores/unholy-prince/bullshit.htm
I'll post the spark notes for those of you to lazy to go see them:
I'm an idiot and I know nothing.
Nuff said.
Unholy Prince
10-26-2004, 06:22 PM
posting a broken link really proves your point. Ouch, you got me beat... :spin:
Mind posting why I know nothing, and since i'm so wrong, what the right is? You make a flame instead of actually posting any information.
Palin was basically dead on, so I'm quite interested what you disagree with, ddg.
greysenn
10-26-2004, 07:33 PM
You mean I don't know what a Ranger does and where he stays? You fucked up again dude. Rangers stay far away and shoot arrows, occasionaly they use a Weapon skill, THAT'S ALL. Your poor typing skills are losing your fight again
Nah, most xp mobs people like to fight have negligible AE attacks. You can usually get a few knife swings in even if you're firing nonstop, so it's good for TP. Some stuff is legitimately nasty though, and in that case it is better to stand back.
Elsurion
10-26-2004, 10:28 PM
Let ddg have his dreams and his so much better spelled english vocabular. He's one who likes to mess, as you can see, in every single phrase he has some insult in it.
As for the Equipment, well most DD needs Haubergon, Snipers and other expensive stuff. Also we talked here Armor pre Genkai 1 not post.
And i doubt smn is only a whm with pets, but they are used as this in the game.
@Gryff: Well, most WAR aren't used as DD, they are used as Tanks. And for the two sets of armor. Many jobs has 2 up to 3 full sets of armor with them, so what's the point there? Also Rampage is a Axe WS, so BST has them to. Not WAR only.
And quit insulting ppls who has an other view then yourself has. Well it seems to be comon here to call someone who has another view asshat
Darkedge
10-27-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by ddg
Rangers stay far away and shoot arrows, occasionaly they use a Weapon skill, THAT'S ALL. Your poor typing skills are losing your fight again.
Unless the whole party can effectively complete a skill chain,
You hypocritical piece of trash! I'm sorry, I stopped being a grammar nanny when I as 13, when I was able to learn 'if *anyone* can read it, why can't you?'
Who actually stays in a PT that isn't SCing? As Unholy Prince said, they're best for 2 SC parties.
Mookie
10-27-2004, 12:44 AM
Elsurion, since I hit 30 9 out of 10 parties I've joined wanted me for DD rather than tank (which is good considering that is what WAR is best at, and it is what enjoy the most).
WAR is more expensive than a great deal of classes. RNG and NIN "throw" gil away, but DD equipment is definatly not cheap, and tanking gear is a hell of a lot cheaper, but a full set adds up to a pretty penny. Even pre-genkai 1 there were only 3 pieces I did not change when going into tanking mode (back, hands and belt (acc is always good)).
As for several classes carrying several sets of armor with them... I've seen NINs with DEF gear for when sh*t hits the fan, MNKs with MND gear for Chi Blast, and WARs with DD and Tank gear. Other classes may carry a few other pieces of equipment around (like THFs using attack earrings instead of dodge during normal attacks), but have yet to find a PLD carrying DD gear, or a DRK carrying tanking gear.
Yes BST get Rampage and so do DRKs, but BST cant really be considered DD unless they have their pet and they dont have the STR of a WAR to match our WS power. And as for DRKs I've yet to see 1 weilding anything but a Greatsword or Sycthe.
Also WAR in DD mode is about as easy as other classes, but you have to be ready to switch to tank mode if the PLD or NIN are in trouble/DEAD, or if they are unable to pull hate off the BLM after a Ancient magic burst (provoke+warcry and I can almost always get hate from BLM, but then I am tanking for the remainder of the fight).
But in tank mode its one hell of a hard class to play and its definatly not as easy as hitting the provoke macro. WAR/NIN (as tank) is definatly the hardest job I've played to date (except THF when I am in a group that doesn't understand sh*t about SATA) and I still prefer to be WAR/MNK for tanking just because hate management is a lot easier and I have tons of abilities at my disposal, but its still not easy compaired to a lot of other classes (MNK and RNG in particular).
As for the original topic, its hard for THFs, the party as a whole needs to know what they are doing for us to be able to function properly. As for the moving part, I find that most WARs know what they are doing. They keep right behind the mob and upclose so I can reach it. Its the SAMs and DRKs that I have the most problems with.
And I would definatly post a thread like this in the RDM forums, because there is no class that has screwed up my SATA more than the RDMs that like to melee.
Gryff
10-27-2004, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Elsurion
@Gryff: Well, most WAR aren't used as DD, they are used as Tanks. And for the two sets of armor. Many jobs has 2 up to 3 full sets of armor with them, so what's the point there? Also Rampage is a Axe WS, so BST has them to. Not WAR only.
And quit insulting ppls who has an other view then yourself has. Well it seems to be comon here to call someone who has another view asshat
past 37 war is mostly used as DD.
Bst doesnt get access to the job traits or abilities that war does.
As for insulting? no.
Its just amusing that someone with 1/5th or 1/6th the experience will tell someone who's static'd with a DD war to 68, that they are wrong :rolleyes:
4. So i doubt you ever played this game, since you say Samurai stinks and does nothing. Samurai is the best TP generator Job in the whole game, not even Ranger can cope with a SAM in this department.
If it wasn't for meditate on my samurai, I would fall behind on the TP gain very easily. >.> :sweat: I also have monk up to par, actually higher then my samurai, and I've experienced TP gain much faster then samurai.
Wow. It's good to know that no one here has yet to substantiate their arguements.
Elsurion, since I hit 30 9 out of 10 parties I've joined wanted me for DD rather than tank (which is good considering that is what WAR is best at, and it is what enjoy the most).
WAR is more expensive than a great deal of classes. RNG and NIN "throw" gil away, but DD equipment is definatly not cheap, and tanking gear is a hell of a lot cheaper, but a full set adds up to a pretty penny. Even pre-genkai 1 there were only 3 pieces I did not change when going into tanking mode (back, hands and belt (acc is always good)).
As for several classes carrying several sets of armor with them... I've seen NINs with DEF gear for when sh*t hits the fan, MNKs with MND gear for Chi Blast, and WARs with DD and Tank gear. Other classes may carry a few other pieces of equipment around (like THFs using attack earrings instead of dodge during normal attacks), but have yet to find a PLD carrying DD gear, or a DRK carrying tanking gear.
Yes BST get Rampage and so do DRKs, but BST cant really be considered DD unless they have their pet and they dont have the STR of a WAR to match our WS power. And as for DRKs I've yet to see 1 weilding anything but a Greatsword or Sycthe.
Also WAR in DD mode is about as easy as other classes, but you have to be ready to switch to tank mode if the PLD or NIN are in trouble/DEAD, or if they are unable to pull hate off the BLM after a Ancient magic burst (provoke+warcry and I can almost always get hate from BLM, but then I am tanking for the remainder of the fight).
But in tank mode its one hell of a hard class to play and its definatly not as easy as hitting the provoke macro. WAR/NIN (as tank) is definatly the hardest job I've played to date (except THF when I am in a group that doesn't understand sh*t about SATA) and I still prefer to be WAR/MNK for tanking just because hate management is a lot easier and I have tons of abilities at my disposal, but its still not easy compaired to a lot of other classes (MNK and RNG in particular).
As for the original topic, its hard for THFs, the party as a whole needs to know what they are doing for us to be able to function properly. As for the moving part, I find that most WARs know what they are doing. They keep right behind the mob and upclose so I can reach it. Its the SAMs and DRKs that I have the most problems with.
And I would definatly post a thread like this in the RDM forums, because there is no class that has screwed up my SATA more than the RDMs that like to melee.
I don't know if any of this is about me, because I'm not reading it. Get a live journal and shove it.
Its just amusing that someone with 1/5th or 1/6th the experience will tell someone who's static'd with a DD war to 68, that they are wrong
I know this was not aimed at me, but shut up.
You hypocritical piece of trash! I'm sorry, I stopped being a grammar nanny when I as 13, when I was able to learn 'if *anyone* can read it, why can't you?'
Quitting cold turkey must be hard huh? How long has it been, 3....4 days?
Who actually stays in a PT that isn't SCing? As Unholy Prince said, they're best for 2 SC parties.
Ummm, everyone from levels 1-50. Samurai play one role and one role only, wich is sad. Most classes can provide 2-3 roles in a fight, unless they're BLM or WHM.
they're best for 2 SC parties
Wtf?
Let ddg have his dreams and his so much better spelled english vocabular. He's one who likes to mess, as you can see, in every single phrase he has some insult in it. "Vocabular"...... I like to mess? Phrase? Oh......kay........
Palin was basically dead on, so I'm quite interested what you disagree with, ddg.
Did you read any of my posts?
What you gave us was the message your observations were correct, and other people's experiences were not.
He was right.
posting a broken link really proves your point. Ouch, you got me beat...
I'm sorry they removed that section of the site, it seems people were actualy become less intelegent after reading it.Mind posting why I know nothing, and since i'm so wrong, what the right is? You make a flame instead of actually posting any information.
I made a flame? Right.... I was just letting everyone know that the whole mini speach you gave us was obviously filled with bull shit. Why you ask? Your mother. I don't need to explain my reasons to you nerds. Just /em stfu ok?
This thread needs to be closed, its off-topic already... and what's more, Voila shouldn't have started such a flame bait post >_>; (yes, we know there are tons of idiots that don't know how to cope with SATA for some god damn reason... NEWS update: lv70 PLD never seen SATA before... suspicious?)
ddg (interesting how a grammar whore doesn't even know to capatalize the first letter in a name), it's obviously from your posts you are just a troll. You respond to every post, even if it's not directed to you and if they defend the point you were making earliar, in a negative fashion. Your hypocritical manner is proof that you post simply to get a rile out of everyone.
I suggest people to stop responding. Don't feed the troll under the brige.
ddg (interesting how a grammar whore doesn't even know to capatalize the first letter in a name), it's obviously from your posts you are just a troll. You respond to every post, even if it's not directed to you and if they defend the point you were making earliar, in a negative fashion. Your hypocritical manner is proof that you post simply to get a rile out of everyone.
You mean my name? "ddg" is not a name, does "ddg" actualy look like a name to you? Idiot. It's random letters I use for message boards/screen names. My hypocritical mannor? I'm now labeled a hypocrit because I didn't capitalize the first "d" in my message board name? Good job on embarrasing yourself once again! Dumbass!
Unholy Prince
10-27-2004, 08:58 AM
calling Nny a dumbass simply proves your ignorance. You don't know the person on the server or his accomplishments, so don't assume.
As for the 2 SC party, of course i'm talking about a war or nin melee as tank. Lets say your melee line consists of Sam, thf, and War at lvl 60. Eppi > Dancing Edge and Eppi > Rampage. 2 pretty strong SCs. Thats where a Sam truely shines, assuming there is a blm in the party, and even still, a well equipped Rng can do basically the same thing.
You stay in a party thats not SCing at lvl 40-50? Well that must have been a long level grind, and obviously you don't make or lead your own parties. Any experienced party leader invites those people who know how to SC, even in valkurm. The only time its not required to do a SC past dunes is probably Pots in the 70's, though i may be incorrect in another situation if anyone wants to add.
What i was asking of you before was why my post was "BS." If you can't post your reasons, then don't say it. Why bother telling people when you can't support it. Just another opinion of yours, unsubstationated. Its like telling HNM LSs that they are tanking the Gods wrong, but offering no support or a better way to do it, or why its wrong.
Anyways, i'm stopping posting as well, all you do is bash and tell everyone that someone is wrong, when you don't give facts, parser results, or any statistical information about it. All you do is give your opinion. Thats fine and dandy, keep your opinion to yourself instead of telling the people who have experienced the game firsthand what is correct. I guess we're just too stupid to be on your level. :spin:
Originally posted by ddg
My hypocritical mannor? I'm now labeled a hypocrit because I didn't capitalize the first "d" in my message board name? Good
job on embarrasing yourself once again! Dumbass!
I meant your hypocritical manner in that before you were defending WARs. Now, anybody who defends WARs you call a dumbass. How does that work? I'm not all to sure, a trolls brain is a funny thing.
Originally posted by ddg
You mean my name? "ddg" is not a name, does "ddg" actualy look like a name to you? Idiot. It's random letters I use for message boards/screen names. My hypocritical mannor? I'm now labeled a hypocrit because I didn't capitalize the first "d" in my message board name? Good job on embarrasing yourself once again! Dumbass!
This is the 1st time I post a flame bait on purpose.. forgive me, just want to point out... "Actually" is double L.... nice mistake of a grammar whore who flame everyone for their grammar when himself can't even spell this simple word.... Oh, just a side note, I am chinese, my english sucks.. :angel:
Personally, when I flame anyone for anything, I would make sure I am perfect in it before flaming, is that different in the country you are from? ^^ Is it normal to bitch at other's english, when yourself can't spell?
Darkedge
10-27-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Cali
This is the 1st time I post a flame bait on purpose.. forgive me, just want to point out... "Actually" is double L.... nice mistake of a grammar whore who flame everyone for their grammar when himself can't even spell this simple word.... Oh, just a side note, I am chinese, my english sucks.. :angel:
ddg is going to call you a 13 year old now, just as he did to me.
I think the biggest issue is how idiots are not bound by logic, which is why these arguements keep going.
On that note..
Most classes can provide 2-3 roles in a fight, unless they're BLM or WHM.
Which classes, and which roles? Pre 50 thf is the only one who can TA.
EDIT: put SA instead of TA..
Let's see if I can cover this all in one swing.
calling Nny a dumbass simply proves your ignorance. You don't know the person on the server or his accomplishments, so don't assume.
I called no one named "Nny" a dumbass, dumbass!
As for the 2 SC party, of course i'm talking about a war or nin melee as tank. Lets say your melee line consists of Sam, thf, and War at lvl 60. Eppi > Dancing Edge and Eppi > Rampage. 2 pretty strong SCs. Thats where a Sam truely shines, assuming there is a blm in the party, and even still, a well equipped Rng can do basically the same thing.
I don't know where you're comming from with this. I'm not arguing any of this with you, you are correct. Samurai are good for SC, that's all. You happy?
You stay in a party thats not SCing at lvl 40-50? Well that must have been a long level grind, and obviously you don't make or lead your own parties. Any experienced party leader invites those people who know how to SC, even in valkurm. The only time its not required to do a SC past dunes is probably Pots in the 70's, though i may be incorrect in another situation if anyone wants to add.
How do you know who is good or isn't good as SC before you play with them? Unless you know them. I only party with my LS, so that's not a problem. Call yourself a winner there too if you like.
What i was asking of you before was why my post was "BS." If you can't post your reasons, then don't say it. Why bother telling people when you can't support it. Just another opinion of yours, unsubstationated. Its like telling HNM LSs that they are tanking the Gods wrong, but offering no support or a better way to do it, or why its wrong. I provide enough information for any normal person. Any other person; anal, losing the arguement, with too much time on their hands, might want more proof for any hopes of regaining respect by winning an arguement. So if you require more, blow me.
Anyways, i'm stopping posting as well, all you do is bash and tell everyone that someone is wrong, when you don't give facts, parser results, or any statistical information about it. All you do is give your opinion. Thats fine and dandy, keep your opinion to yourself instead of telling the people who have experienced the game firsthand what is correct. I guess we're just too stupid to be on your level.
Read my above comment, there's no reason to provide more for anal newbs like you. Keep it to myself...? No? That's what these forums are for, COMMUNICATING WITH OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT FFXI DUMBASS. Even if you think I'm "bashing" or "flaming" or whatever you want to call it. It's not that you're stupid, ignorant is more like it.
I meant your hypocritical manner in that before you were defending WARs. Now, anybody who defends WARs you call a dumbass. How does that work? I'm not all to sure, a trolls brain is a funny thing.
I was never on anyone side. I'm simply arguing two points, because two arguements have risen from this thread. I personaly care for neither, only proving you and the rest of the refresh whores wrong. I'm a troll now? That makes me stupid? You're calling me a fictional creature that lives under a bridge, and I'm stupid? Nice job defending your e-honor.
This is the 1st time I post a flame bait on purpose.. forgive me, just want to point out... "Actually" is double L.... nice mistake of a grammar whore who flame everyone for their grammar when himself can't even spell this simple word.... Oh, just a side note, I am chinese, my english sucks..
Flame bait? Typos happen, spelling something incorrect doesn't regard grammer, it regards SPELLING, idiot.
1.
1. The study of how words and their component parts combine to form sentences.
2. The study of structural relationships in language or in a language, sometimes including pronunciation, meaning, and linguistic history.
2.
1. The system of inflections, syntax, and word formation of a language.
2. The system of rules implicit in a language, viewed as a mechanism for generating all sentences possible in that language.
3.
1. A normative or prescriptive set of rules setting forth the current standard of usage for pedagogical or reference purposes.
2. Writing or speech judged with regard to such a set of rules.
4. A book containing the morphologic, syntactic, and semantic rules for a specific language.
5.
1. The basic principles of an area of knowledge: the grammar of music.
2. A book dealing with such principles.
Quoted from: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=grammar
Dumbass.
Personally, when I flame anyone for anything, I would make sure I am perfect in it before flaming, is that different in the country you are from? ^^ Is it normal to bitch at other's english, when yourself can't spell?
The chinese, perfect? That's a good one, fits right in with your communism. Perfection and ignorant equality are two different things. Yes it is different in america. You see, in america, we have freedom. Can you say freedom? I'll let that sink in for a bit. I bitched at no ones "english". I insulted their grammer, wich is different then "english". I can spell just fine, misspelling one word does not declare yourself one who can not spell. Using incorrect grammer in several full posts IS enough to say that one has poor grammer. Bitch.
ddg is going to call you a 13 year old now, just as he did to me.
No I'm not, idiot.
I think the biggest issue is how idiots are not bound by logic, which is why these arguements keep going.
Thanks for admiting your problem. You win!
Which classes, and which roles? Pre 50 thf is the only one who can SA.
Warrior- Can effectivly deal damage, and take the hate in emergencies, if not tanking the whole fight.
Ninja- Can pull effectivly using Utsusemi (spelling? I'm not a ricer, sorry). Can effectivly tank while subbing warrior. Can deal moderate damage and participate in mulitple skill chains by utilizing the dual wield effect. Keeping two types of one handed weapons allows them to swich back and forth, depending on what weapon skill is needed for the chain.
Ranger- Can pull, deal damge.
Monk- Up to 30 monk can tank fine, with the correct gear. While also dealing massive damage.
Thief- They can pull and controle hate, dealing critical hits for decent damage every 1 minut.
Redmage- They can heal, enfeeble, and melee. Suck it.
Bard- They can buff, and heal using Regan type songs (sorry I'm not too educated on Bard songs)
Beast master- Let's not even touch this ok? They CAN charm monsters, and melee them... Let's just not touch this one.
Dark Knight- Melee and enfeeble.
Dragoon Knight- Deal lots of damage, support the party using Wyvern breath, or deal more damage with it. Up to 30, they can tank.
Paladin- Tank, and heal.
Summoner- Heal with summons, deal damage with summons.
I guess that's it, dumbass.
Tomoh
10-27-2004, 05:06 PM
ddg is banned through accumulation of warning points.
Mookie
10-27-2004, 05:16 PM
Great job Tomoh!
Glad there is atleast one forums on the net that bans trolls ^^
Voila!
10-27-2004, 05:20 PM
This post should be banned through accumulation of idiots. :|
Elsurion
10-27-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Darkedge
Which classes, and which roles? Pre 50 thf is the only one who can SA.
But please use it only if you have a good Tank or a good Thf/Tank duo, or you'll likely get the hate on you.
And for the others mocking about my english, hell i'm not an english native. English isn't even my main!
And this will be my last post in this thread.
Regulat0r
10-27-2004, 09:55 PM
Voila, why do you always have a attitude problem?
Darkedge
10-28-2004, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Elsurion
But please use it only if you have a good Tank or a good Thf/Tank duo, or you'll likely get the hate on you.
And for the others mocking about my english, hell i'm not an english native. English isn't even my main!
And this will be my last post in this thread.
I meant TA, my bad. :(
Voila!
10-28-2004, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Regulat0r
Voila, why do you always have a attitude problem?
It's passed down from post to post.
And this will be my last post in this thread.
Thank god, your stupidity was becoming contagious.
neighbortaru
10-28-2004, 01:34 PM
jesus-fucking-christ ddg! didn't you get the hint the first time you were banned?
AtraposBLM
10-29-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by ddg
Warrior- Can effectivly deal damage, and take the hate in emergencies, if not tanking the whole fight.
Ninja- Can pull effectivly using Utsusemi (spelling? I'm not a ricer, sorry). Can effectivly tank while subbing warrior. Can deal moderate damage and participate in mulitple skill chains by utilizing the dual wield effect. Keeping two types of one handed weapons allows them to swich back and forth, depending on what weapon skill is needed for the chain.
Ranger- Can pull, deal damge.
Monk- Up to 30 monk can tank fine, with the correct gear. While also dealing massive damage.
Thief- They can pull and controle hate, dealing critical hits for decent damage every 1 minut.
Redmage- They can heal, enfeeble, and melee. Suck it.
Bard- They can buff, and heal using Regan type songs (sorry I'm not too educated on Bard songs)
Beast master- Let's not even touch this ok? They CAN charm monsters, and melee them... Let's just not touch this one.
Dark Knight- Melee and enfeeble.
Dragoon Knight- Deal lots of damage, support the party using Wyvern breath, or deal more damage with it. Up to 30, they can tank.
Paladin- Tank, and heal.
Summoner- Heal with summons, deal damage with summons.
I guess that's it, dumbass.
Let's see here. You were saying that Sam was the only job with only one purpose, other than BLM and WHM? Let's look at your reasoning:
WAR - DD and Tank. Tanks well throughout the game, although not an ideal choice from about lv37-lv74 (Flash makes PLD suddenly much better at keeping hate, and not having Utsusemi: Ni makes Nin better at avoiding damage. War is still a close 3rd to tanking in that time span. At lv74, War/Nin might actually be better than Nin/War, but I have no experience saying one way or another). We basically agree here, only WAR's can be more than just a back-up tank, and they're actually the best tank for the first 37 levels of the game.
NIN - Pull using utsusemi? Do you mean that if you use /nin, you're a better puller due to blink? Well...sure, but that doesn't really prove anything about Nin. In my assorted 170+ levels of this game (72 as blm, 36 as whm, 22 as rdm, 10 as war, mnk, nin, and sam), I've seen nin pull exactly Zero times. Why? You generally don't have the tank pull, because to make Chain 4, 5, and the occasional 6, it's much easier to have the puller (usually a RNG/NIN, THF/NIN, WAR/X, or in some of my fun parties, BRD/WHM) leave before the mob is fully dead to make sure that travel distance is not the reason why you missed a chain. Also, NIN make great tanks from 12-20ish (2 nin in the Dunes makes partying ridiculously easy). From there, WAR or PLD make better tanks until lv37. From there on, NIN make better tanks for slow, hard hitting mobs, and PLD make better tanks for anything else. PLD also holds hate better, but NIN can compensate using a lot of ninjitsu. Also, if you have more gil than you know what to do with (namely, MILLIONS of it), NIN/BLM can be an effective DD and simultaneous Tank. However, to do that requires an assload of cash, and I believe is only feasible from lv51 on (elemental staves become available at lv51). NIN 2 hour is very handy when you pull something that you just can't handle. Dead mob and no penalties on death = sweet. It's also a handy warp for those of you without BLM 17.
MNK - mainly agree with you, although they're one of the more consistent DD. I'm not sure about MNK tanking abilties - I know they can tank in dunes and Qufim, but I'm not positive how much further they can take it. Ask a MNK who's tanked. I'd be willing to let a MNK with good gear tank as late as Gustav Tunnel though (lv38-40), maybe even further if it was someone I trusted.
THF - Agree with you here. But it's basically one role - Hate Control. Even their burst damage is a form of hate control. Basically, you invite a thf to allow other DD's to do more damage. The fact that THF comes with damage is more or less irrelevant. If SATA + VB did zero damage, but had the added effect of making it impossible to get the mob off the PLD, a THF would still be invited for that reason. Well...maybe not Zero damage...but you get the point. The damage is a bonus, not a role. THF has one role (albeit a complicated one)....does that make them useless?
RDM - One of the most versatile jobs in the game. Melee's effectively from 1-30 with normal gear, 30-50ish with exceptional work (Reference: Ruic, lv52 RDM/NIN in an abnormal party). Master enfeebler, second best party supporter, endurance healing. For many levels, is tied with WHM for best healer.
BRD - One role - Party support. The fact that they do numerous things is irrelevant. Ballad, Madrigal, debuff. The fact that they only have one role is NOT a downside - it just means they're great at what they do.
BST - I have not partied with a BST, nor have I played one to any level. Let a BST comment.
DRK - Enfeeble? Erm, unless you mean they can cast 1 absorb per battle...then sure, that's enfeebling. However, even that enfeeble does one thing - increase the damage done by the party. If you invite a Dark, you want Damage, plain and simple. That's all a DRK is good for, and they're not the best at it until about lv68. Even then, it's arguable. DRK's are valuable for their DAMAGE. Period. One role does not equal bad.
DRG - Sure, in lower levels, can tank, just like anyone with /war can tank. Most DRG's use a /melee, and as such, Wyvern Breathes are usually non-existant (except adding to the DRG's WS damage). Upper levels, the plight of the DRG is saddening, as they can't really do much of anything. At the same time, I've partied with a few DRG's in the past few levels (one at 70, one at 71) who managed to hold their own. It's just that other jobs would've been better. When a DRG get's Pentathrust, it's king damage dealer for a level or two. Other than that, they're mainly average DD.
PLD - With *very few* exceptions, PLD = Tank. Period. They're the best at holding hate bar none from lv37-75. Before then, they struggle with holding hate when compared to a good War/Mnk. Talk to Rugal about the very limited times a PLD can be an added DD, and the expense at which it comes. Also, ask any PLD, they cure not neccesarily to heal, but instead to retain hate. Either way, it goes back to the fact that PLD = tank. Again, one role does not equal bad.
SMN - They're a whm with different buffs from lv1-lv66 (or 68...whenever it is that Fenrir gets Eclipse Bite). From then on, they're more or less a WHM with 1 minute burst damage. Gilthanes and I partied for lv70 a few times (he went lv70->71, I went from ~2k into level to ~30k into level). We both argreed that barring the few occasions where Garuda would do 1400 damage with Predator Claws, I was dealing more damage more consistently. SMN's are incredible helpful to have, however, in HNM fights. Earthen Ward (stoneskin-ga) and Aerial Armor (blink-ga) make fights against mobs like Fafnir much easier, requiring much less healing of the melee's who can't do anything to avoid taking damage from AoE attacks. They're also great for having Hate-Free damage, although this is mainly a moot point, as any DD who gains hate simply temp-logs and comes back Hate-Free.
As for the ones you forgot:
RNG - Damage, damage, damage. Yes, they can pull....so? If you invite a RNG, you want DMG. They spend the most of the game as top dogs of damage, who can only arguably be said to be second best to BLM's. Frequently, a RNG's ability to unload damage and keep going (/nin) makes them great for long battles where intense damage is needed (BCNM's). One role does not mean bad.
SAM - Just like any other melee job, can tank 1-25 with /war just fine. As a DD, SAM serves one of two purposes. One, it's to make a renkei with another melee damage dealer and the tank (which for a long time, rng *cannot* do, although they can in higher levels). Or, it's to do 1 renkei with 1 partner. If this is the case, the samurai can frequently do 2 weapon skills for every one that their partner gets off. This elevates SAM damage to be on par with most other DD's. SAM are very helpful from lv30 on. SAM can also be a *very* good damage dealer once they learn Sidewinder at lv58/29 SAM/RNG (I might be off a level or two on that). Two roles - DD or Renkei maker.
BLM - One role? Erm...k, thanks. Damage, and back-up healer. Also, for a good portion of the game, emergency party rescue in the form of escape (until RDM can get it from sub), and second best person to try to Sleep adds (elemental seal). Well...I guess they're actually the 3rd person to ask to sleep adds (BRD - RDM - BLM). Also handy to take along for Warp II. Don't have one? Have fun walking back from Sky...
WHM - One role. Healing. For many parts of the game, the best Healer in the game. Also, makes any party safer by having the higher raises. One role does not mean bad. Also, until lv72, only job able to make leveling in faraway places easy. Don't have one? Have fun walking to Yhoator jungle, Xarcabard, or Altepa.
Just because a job has 1 role doesn't make it bad. By your logic, nobody should invite BRD's, PLD's, WHM's, DRK's, or RNG's (and from 30+, MNK) because they only have one role. Why is that so sad? Is a Doctor sad because he doesn't know how to repair a car? No, he specialized in something, foregoing other studies, to become the best at what he could do. Since when did specialization = bad? Seriously man...you think you're awesome because you make arguements from what you've read, but until you play this game, and play it to a respectable level (~65 at least), your opinion is rather difficult to take seriously. Also, lay off the grammar whoring. Attacking the surface of someone's arguement only proves that you can't touch the arguement it presents. Weak.
Unholy Prince
10-30-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Also, lay off the grammar whoring. Attacking the surface of someone's arguement only proves that you can't touch the arguement it presents. Weak.
best quote to come out of this thread. I'm remembering that one.
Ashtyr
11-17-2004, 08:17 AM
There's a reason this game is teamwork-based. Some of you need to go back to listening to Linkin Park while pretending you're Squall and angsting about how much your life sucks and how you don't need anyone else.
Fags.
Tomatoes
11-17-2004, 08:47 AM
BST - I have not partied with a BST, nor have I played one to any level. Let a BST comment.
In PT setting, rivals RNG in total damage output when including jug pet damage. However, is limited to 1h Axe for SC options. Also, doesn't gain TP as fast as more dedicated melee classes imo. Can also handle occasional links relatively safely.
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