I have been lvling a Taru WAR for long time now. I have been decsriminated in EVERY pt i have joined so far. Either some cocky elvaan or some fat ugly galka all the time x.x; Mages never complain just these stupid melee based races...
Lets give a few examples...
Back before subjob in Valkurm fighting Lizards with top VIT/DEF gear...pt setup was WAR WAR BLM WHM SAM...other WAR was Elvaan with Sword/Shield using no food in Scale alone no rings belts etc. I was using Fishkabobs...the Elvaan insisted on tanking...so i decided to over voke him. I kept the hate away from him and didnt die once. The cocky elvaan that he was disbanded in a huff.

2) Fighting Pugils in Valkurm was a scary thing but in full Lizard,War belt+1 VIT+2 Rings and Silver+1 rings i bravely provoked. This time it was a Mithra MNK...who thought he should tank over me. Screwdriver rarely was ready in time or i dodged it for some strange reason. The MNK provokes and gets one shotted by Screwdriver...

3) In Qufim now with full chain mail +2 VIT War belt etc. First a nice guy Hume MNK tried to keep hate away from me...didnt work. next a Galka PLD...VERY gimp i had more DEF then him @.@; I kept hate from him as well...this last one was the last straw. A SMN was complaining about main healing so i got a WHM to come from Bastok Markets with rank 5. PT atm was THF WAR BLM BLM SMN. One BLM had to go so i replace with an Elvaan BLM named Otter. He comes on to the pt and sees the SMN is leaving. The BLM states "Theres a BRD LFG get him he can heal" I say..."No...BRD cant main heal...hes hume to boot,a taru possibly...but not a hume" The blm comeback..."WTF Your one to talk mr Taru WAR...loser" kicked him and the SMN to follow. PT that lasted 6 hours disbanded because he didnt think i could tank. He later /tells me...
>>Otter You Suck.
<<Otter No you suck!
>>Otter you cant even come up with your own retorts...what are you 8?
<<Otter ...yes im 8
>>Otter Taru tank bwahaha loser.
<<Otter coming from the Elvaan BLM
>>Otter Im a 64 BRD loser
<<Otter and you think they can main heal? rofl
>>Otter BRD DONT USE MP YOU LOSER.
>>Otter then why did you say for him to be a healer?
<<Otter I NEVER SAID MAIN HEALER.
>>Otter you said for him to replace main healer...implying you want him to be main healer.
<<Otter BRD DONT USE MP!!!!
<<Otter /tell Bob and tell him that.
>>Otter w/e im 64 BRD i know what im talking about
<<Otter Bob-75 BRD
>>Otter whatever...welcome to my blist.
(Ragnarok server btw...Bob=Not the 75 BRD i know though ;))
This guy had the intelligence of a bug...and i doubt hes actually a lvl 64 BRD...should have asked for his in game BRD name...Well my point is TARU CAN TANK and are not to be descriminated...i have the best gear a tank can have at my lvl and i deserve the respect that comes with my gear. I didnt spend 200k on my armor to be put down by race...

BTW this has been posted at all the forums i visit so if it looks familiar you know why ;)

Haha. I descriminate (well right now its prejudice) by rank, not race.
I will say I feel more comfortable with Elvaan PLDs, but one of my greatest parties as a whm had a taru pld and a taru DRK. (along with taru brd..and I think an elvaan blm, dont remember)

But yeah it's real crap that people act this way. I like how he attacks your age, and doesn't back up his crap.

I'm lvling my character, and I'm more knowledgeable than my linkshell and most ppl I party with at this point, but I'll act a newbie and ask if certain jobs are good, and why to use certain weapons.
The best ive gotten was someone claiming a 68 war with AF, 54 dark, and WARs using GSword as primary weapon (all from same guy). ^^ His war is only lvl 30 btw, I /sea 'd him one day when his linkpearl was off.

Yea, top gear + def food, you still won't get any love. =( I feel you, bro. There's gonna be a bunch of ppl who don't have a full understanding of what works - and you're gonna get crap for it. If you want an easier time, make a set PT that appreciates your efforts.

Well your post talks about how you hate being discriminated against as a taru tank, but you discriminated against the elvvan blm and the hume smn as well as call the “melee based� races stupid. You should understand that with the same gear and assumeing equal skill that most any other race would be better at war tank same as assuming that with equal skill and gear taru would be a better mage then most any other race. If the party invited you to tank then you should be the tank if not do the job you were invited to do, no pt that I’ve ever been in starts without designating a tank. So don’t feel too bad because every race gets discriminated against for another in every job and it sucks if you not the “ideal� race for that job but I guess that’s just the way things are in this game. (Visualize) A Galka and Taru whm are you pt and your leader who’s main healer? I’d just feel better with an equally equipped and skilled taru whm it just seems that their race is better it.

Ps. I hope that made sense its only my second post.
:sweat:

Meh, I tanked VT Weapons in Ru'Avitau for a leveling party the other day with Monk sub. I took no more damage than any average Paladin, race or otherwise, would have in the same position. Anyone ignorant enough to think you can't tank doesn't deserve you in their party.

So Russ are you saying that a race with a with higher vit and hp's
wouldn’t be a better tank? That’s like saying a race with higher int/mnd and mp wouldn’t for blm/whm mage. Higher vit means less damage but like I said before if you were invited to be tank then they should have no problem with you. When ppl see more then one race of the same job seeking pt they think of the basic race stats because they don’t know what gear you have If I‘m seeking pt as a blm and if blm’s of any other races are seeking I can pretty much count on me being the last picked up (I have a 50/50 chance with galka they have better int lol). So feel better in the fact that if you ever decide to play a mage you’ll see the other side if the coin lol. :)

Yes but a well-played, well-equipped taru taru war is MORE than adequate (sp?) to tank pretty much anything. Lower level ppl dont understand that just because hes a taru doesnt mean he will automatically suck D;

Originally posted by Maxamillian
So Russ are you saying that a race with a with higher vit and hp's wouldn’t be a better tank?

In some ways, yes I am saying that because playskill>equipment.

Originally posted by Bluejoker1118
I have been lvling a Taru WAR for long time now. I have been decsriminated in EVERY pt i have joined so far. Either some cocky elvaan or some fat ugly galka all the time x.x;

Let's get something straight you fat toddler, Galkas are anything but fat. They are mesomorphs (thick and muscular) and ripped to all hell. Only playable race in the game that has the trappings of a six-pack (no other race has a defined ab-region) or defined musculature is Galka. The only obese playable race in the game are... Tarutaru (to be fair, some Galka and Hume NPCs have guts). Tired of hearing "omg Galka so fat" from unoriginal 'tards. Can't you people get some fresh material? No, I'm not overreacting or a bit touchy. Its just the "Galka are not fat" rant has been kindling in my mind for a while. :)

Ugly? Well, that's in the eye of the beholder...

That aside, I agree with Russta that playerskill and equipment will supercede any race benefits in many cases. However, that's not to say race doesn't matter, because it does. This is doubly apparent in situations where both players are within adequate gear or playerskill tiering with respect to one another. Let's face it, this game is not difficult to be a good player in.

Why is it so hard to understand that people feel more secure with a Galka or Elvaan tanking than a Taru? Its the same damn premise as I, a Galka/Elvaan (currently leveling an Elvaan through the lowbie shitfest) feeling more secure with a competent Taru WHM healing my ass. The room for error is greater, the stress is less for those supporting you, etc.

Also WARRIOR is an MP-less job, so the pro-Taru PLD stance of mythical uber-hate control goes out the window. Players of similar skill as a WAR hold hate the exact same way. The only difference seperating competent players as a WARRIOR is without a doubt their HP and VIT.

So yeah, I can understand where the discrimination comes from and yeah, it does suck. Keep in mind, I've gotten the same dosage of it when leveling Galka WHM (though I'll be fair and admit the ease of finding PT as a Galka WHM is vastly greater than finding one as a Taru WAR). In your case, you happily proved them wrong since you went the extra mile to gear up and eat food (as I did with my WHM), but anyone playing a Galka or Elvaan and playing like you did can go a step further.

And that really, is the sad truth about this game.

and i would like to point out that galka are stinky and have stupid names for ther NPC's and they always sit on me x.x; :mad:
i have galka friends and i make fun of them for being galka like i make fun of elvaans and call them dhamal's i call taru's onion's but i dont discrimante when it comes to play abillity if you really wana be a Taru war go at it!! taru's have awsome Dex and Agi
not as good as Mithra but if you want to play Taru and be a war go for it dont let anybody hold you down

Originally posted by Maxamillian
Well your post talks about how you hate being discriminated against as a taru tank, but you discriminated against the elvvan blm and the hume smn as well as call the “melee based� races stupid. You should understand that with the same gear and assumeing equal skill that most any other race would be better at war tank same as assuming that with equal skill and gear taru would be a better mage then most any other race. If the party invited you to tank then you should be the tank if not do the job you were invited to do, no pt that I’ve ever been in starts without designating a tank. So don’t feel too bad because every race gets discriminated against for another in every job and it sucks if you not the “ideal� race for that job but I guess that’s just the way things are in this game. (Visualize) A Galka and Taru whm are you pt and your leader who’s main healer? I’d just feel better with an equally equipped and skilled taru whm it just seems that their race is better it.

Ps. I hope that made sense its only my second post.
:sweat:

yes i did descriminate the Hume BRD...because the Elvaan BLM wanted him to main heal. OH i descriminated the Elvaan BLM cause he had no +MP gear and had a total of 100ish MP...no thanks

I don't like Taru warriors, they get one shotted too often. I had a party where every leveled twice but the taru war because he INSISTED on tanking the greater pugils and was continuously being screwdrivered.

Fortunately for me I don't run into the taru tank too often because it's me who tanks. I'm a mithra and I tank well. No single shot deaths and I hit pretty hard to boot.

he sounds gimp since ive never been one shotted by screwdriver

Dude you talk about how you hate being discriminated against, but then you discriminate just as much. That was one of the more hypocritical posts ive seen on this forum.

If you are going to discriminate against others, don't whine and complain about how others discriminate against you. People who can dish it but can't take it are worthless.

It is a fact that any well prepared player can make any job good, just as any under-prepared player will make it easily as bad, regardless of race. Based on this, it is a fact that there is nothing wrong with a Taru WAR. Only inexperienced players will say otherwise.

However, you can't deny that the other races are better for tanking. A well prepared Elvaan WAR is better than an equally prepared Taru WAR.

Also, I must say that I'm a very proud tank (it seems that you are too), if some little Taru is trying to out tank me after the party has decided that I am tank, that pisses me off. Doing that is just creating anger that is unneccesary. I realize that the party made a wrong decision by picking the inferior tank, but u could at least give the other guy a chance, and if he isn't doing the job well then suggest that you should tank as well. Its a much nicer way of doing things.

In response to your second case, the mithra mnk is just an idiot.
Otter is also an idiot.

I'm not trying to flame, its awesome that you are a well prepared Taru, but you seem to play like you have a lot to prove, because you want to prove that Tarus can be good tanks.

Originally posted by Bluejoker1118
yes i did descriminate the Hume BRD...because the Elvaan BLM wanted him to main heal. OH i descriminated the Elvaan BLM cause he had no +MP gear and had a total of 100ish MP...no thanks

read this before you say im a hypocrite...

Hey, Troll! It's time to for lunch!

are you calling me a troll....

ya blue you're right i hate that. Thats why i quit taru warrior..they wouldnt even let me DD and i tried taru drk but i was kicked because there was an elvaan drg looking for a group...and yes i had good equipment

Originally posted by Bluejoker1118
are you calling me a troll....

Why would you ever think that!? :)

In response to the above posters, he discriminiated against other races because they weren't properly equipped to make up for their shortcomings. His point is that he is discriminated against purely because of his race, despite being better equipped and better prepared than the average WAR, most of which are the "proper" race; and to top it all off, he's discriminated against by people who are underequipped, and think they are superior, once again based solely on race. Never in his post did he discriminate without proper reason.

It's been said before, but player > equipment > race. And yes; if you have two players of equal skill and the same equipment, the one with the "proper" race would arguably be "better." However, this argument isn't completely valid because a) not two players are the same; different players have different experiences and talents as well as different flaws and biases; b) rarely ever will two people have the exact same armor; c) if they're of different races, they should equip armor to try to balance out their weaknesses; d) if they're both properly equipped and both are good players, both will do well.

Also, Taru do have some advantages over Elvaan and Galka. They have higher AGI and DEX (not as much as Mithra, but still that's not a fair comparison.) Tanks tend to underestimate the importance of AGI; sure, it increases your evasion by a minimal ammount, but it does so much more - it increases how often you block and parry, and how often critical hits are scored against you. Likewise, having higher DEX gives them more chance to score critical hits. Also, the difference between stats isn't that big when it comes to meleeing, especially in the low levels. A level 18 Elvaan MNK/WAR only had 4-5 less points in DEX and AGI than a Mithra MNK/WAR, both naked. Likewise, the Elvaan had 3-5 more points in STR and VIT. Note that these two races are the extremes, so the difference between an Elvaan or Mithra and a Hume, which is the average race, would be what, 1-3 points tops? This can easily be balanced out with stat rings. Sure, the gap in stats gets bigger as you level, but the accessories will also give bigger boosts to stats.

Again, player > equipment > race. The original poster may be a Tarutaru, but he is more than properly equipped, eats his food, and knows what he's doing. There's no reason why he should be discriminated against when he takes all the measures necessary to not only compensate for his race's shortcomings, but excell as a tank overall. And again, sure, another player with the same skill and armor (which I honestly don't see happening) was a better race, it doesn't matter that he's a Tarutaru, because he will tank well anyhow.

If you don't know the player you pretty much skip the first part of the equation. Maybe we should all have lunch and get to know each other before we play so we can ignore the two +1 Str rings the whm is wearing and that the blm is subbing thf at level 13 for steal to make money.

Equipment is what tells us the player is actually trying to play the game well. I don't look for good people, I look for the well equipped because most of the time they know what they are doing.

It's a little hard to check equipment when you're staring at list of seekers and the only things you can check are on the list.

First cutoff is the jobs I need to invite. After that, player skill and equips.

Generally assuming things, people with high rank should be well equipped since they have played the game to a higher level, and have some more experience. It is of course, the safest choice I can make. The only things not keeping me from inviting a high rank person is if there is another person seeking I know is a good/decent player, or someone has a well advertised comment with what I’m looking for.

My only real discrimination is people with low rank (usually 3 and below), no sub or under-leveled sub, and poor reputation/intelligence (are they seeking while anon, only speak in single word sentences, arrogant?). These are pretty good warning signs to all that this player might be a hazard to the PT.

If I have no choice but to pick from a pool of less than on par players (e.g. valkurum), I will start looking for anything that will seem better than other choices. And eventually race plays a part in that.

In normal cirumstances, race to me is not even a consideration except in extreme cases. I might be a bit hesitant to invite a galka whm due to the importance of an MP pool when we get an add or somthing goes horribly wrong, but that thought usually passes in a minute or two. Especially since you don't get much to pick from at higher levels. :P

Voila! said: I don't like Taru warriors, they get one shotted too often.

In my opinion I've seen Taru WAR Take more shots then a elvaan WAR :X Same gear. Maybe he was lucky, maybe not. but Just because Taru have less HP doesn't mean they are all one shotted. that mainly applys to Mages.. idiot.

Originally posted by Jonishush
In my opinion I've seen Taru WAR Take more shots then a elvaan WAR :X Same gear. Maybe he was lucky, maybe not. but Just because Taru have less HP doesn't mean they are all one shotted. that mainly applys to Mages.. idiot.


In all the time I've been playing, I've been one-shotted exactly once. I've survived alliance-wide wipes (read- the bomb in Ifrit's near Ash Dragon exploded....killed 14 of the 18 people in our alliance. I didn't die, despite having the fewest HP in the alliance save the Taru SMN (who also didn't die)). The only time I ever got one-shotted was a freak accident with a monkey in the Den of Rancor. It used some weird special on me (It was a 4xBLM/RDM/BRD party) for 950 damage. I had somewhere around 720 hp.


I'm a taru BLM. Tanks have several hundred more hitpoints than I do. I've yet to see a taru PLD that took a significant amount of damage more than other tanks. The difference is even smaller with warrior's and ninja's, as the amount of damage they take is much more dependant on the gear they're using than the race they're playing. If anything, when looking for a tank, I tend to discriminate *towards* taru's, simply because there's a much higher chance that a high level taru tank got there because he had great gear than the Elvaan or Hume PLD that got invites no matter what. Plus...taru's spend more time LFP...gives them more time to farm :P

I'm willing to admit that I discriminate against Taru melee and tanks. Off the bat I'd rather have another race for that job, but as others have said they can still do just as well as anyone else. If I am unable to check gear, I'll pretty much always invite a Galka, Elvaan, or Hume PLD over a Mithra or Taru. I'm definitely biased, but I'll give any job/race combination the chance they deserve. It's not like I'll refuse to party with the other races.
On a side note, if tank is a NIN I personally like Mithra and Galka the best. Taru NIN can die mad quick if they get stuck with their blink down. Another reason is that a couple of the best parties I've ever been in have been with 2 different Galka NIN tanks I know (secondary jobs and from the same LS).

*Edit: This is much less of an issue at the low levels you describe, especially if you have superior gear. There is tons of room for error at these levels as it is. When I stopped leveling my SAM at around 54 or 55 to get my WAR to 37, I was shocked to compare how a damn bad party can still get great xp at a constant rate. What I would have considered a terrible party at 55 was doing absolutely fine at 32/33.

Join the club.

I had a taru ninja in the party tonight, couldn't keep much hate. Luckily I don't mind taking hits.

Uh, that doesn't mean all Taru NIN suck.. ;\

If anything, when looking for a tank, I tend to discriminate *towards* taru's, simply because there's a much higher chance that a high level taru tank got there because he had great gear than the Elvaan or Hume PLD that got invites no matter what.

Tanking equipment is relatively inexpensive because there isn't as many tanks as there are damage dealers. People will invite tanking classes just because they're tanking classes with no regard for race.

Taru should stick to what they're good at.

im not even going to read this. race is shit.

Individual Skill > Equip > Race.

You've got it all backwards:

Race > Equipment > Skill

Get it right next time.

Just to prove my point, some people include what rare item they bought from the AH and for how much. Why? Equipment > Skill. You won't find any "Black Mandy starts casting Flood. Random Drk casts Stun. Black Mandy's casting is interrupted." Nobody cares, anybody can do a Drk's job, but not everybody can enhance a Drk's job with sniper's rings and whatnot.

It may be: Equipment > Race > Skill. We really shouldn't be trying to compare individual skill though, since you are in a party of six where you rely on your team mates. A may have to keep hate, but he might keep it better if the Blm would lay off the nukes a bit to help him out. It isn't soley on the tank to be sure he/she keeps the hate.

Race is important though, I consantly out SA Elvaans and Galkas. Always and forever. I'd rather have an Elvaan or Galka paladin over a taru one. I've had many taru tanks, and they could hardly keep hate.

Nope, he was right.

A taru PLD with good Equipment can do just fine as a Galka PLD. a taru PLD just can't hold a doubble sickleslash very good.

Also skill is more important then race, since the unskilled player ruins exp over time. e.g. THF can't do his maximum output, because the <race> PLD voked/Flashed like mad at beginning, that's around 200 to 400 dmg depending on mob who where wasted. And no drk don't deal that much dmg to compensate this.

elsurion, just disregard voila's comments - he's trolling. just trying to anger people into talking to him.

Actually I've edited my post to be less trolly, you guys sure responded quick though.

nope, skill always trumps all those.

how someone uses those skills of that job is more important. always. equipment can ALWAYS outproduce race bonuses.

not everyone is quick on the draw with stun, know how to time a weapon bash, know what spells/enfeebles are needed, know how/when do use certain abilities. not everyone knows how to use equipment to its most effectiveness. not everyone knows how to finish chain5's.

skill always greater then stats. any day of the week.

My definition of skill is pretty stringent. Knowing when to stun is a matter of timing, and knowing to stun is knoledge. There's no skill in pressing a button and watching your character do all the work. Skill would be having an active effect on the outcome of Stun.

A party as whole would need skill, not individual players.

"I've had many taru tanks, and they could hardly keep hate."

That has less to do with the fact that they were taru and more to do with the fact that the rest of the party couldn't control their own hate. A galka PLD is not going to hold more hate than a taru simply because hes a galka.

You couldn't be more wrong!

The damage the tank does, along with the damage he/she takes translates into hate gain and loss. Tarus take big damage, and do little damage.

I've partied with a certain elvaan paladin a lot, and he can always keep hate off my 120+ damage sneak attack. He does just about as much damage as I do on normal attacks, but takes way less damage.

I partied with a tarutaru paladin who would always lose hate with the same sneak attack I used when partying with the elvaan. It did around the same damage, but I did more damage with normal hits. I could instantly pull hate at any time during the fight with steal. It was pathetic.

They were both casting cure spells, on themselves and on others to keep hate, but the tarutaru just didn't have the home game advantage that the elvaan did (homegame advantage being a race that benefits more as a tank).

Half the tarutaru out there admit that their race sucks at tanking, but the rest of you feel as if I'm threatening your life or something. It's well known fact and always will remain true. Any equipment you purchase to make tanking easier, everybody else will also purchase and still be better at it then you.

Stick to the mage classes.

I could say a few nasty things to Voila but I don't see how that would benefit anyone. That said, let's move on:

first off, when Voila defined skill, he defined skill at playing HALO, which is not even remotely close to FF. I'd describe it more as an intuition.
I've played as DD Warrior in a lot of parties with paladins. I've had Pallies of all the races. Sometimes, the paladins could keep hate, but I knew at any given time, my own Voke would pull hate to me (sometimes no voke needed). With other paladins, my vokes are useless. The sad thing is, 90% of paladins fall into the first category that I might as well tank and have the pally just sit back and cure me. My last paladin was very good. Hume paladin (subpar race, I suppose.......), held hate so well that I couldn't save her when whm DCed.
OK, so the point is that skill does exist. While the FPS 'twitchy' skill is where ninja tanks come in, paladins do require a lot of intuition to know when to do what. And in that, race has too little of an effect. Some of my worst plds were galka or elvaan.

Taru can do just fine at melee/tanks whatever. That being said, their hp makes life more stressful for healers if they are front liners. It also means they get tore up faster if they get hate from something that they shouldn't... but hey, there's gotta be some trade off.

That being said, if you're being noticeably creamed in any jobs performance, it's because of gear/food/level. Skill does play a fair role in timing, skillchains and not getting you killed in the first place, but it's not like it really affects your hit rates, damage taken when you get hit (although it may affect how long you get hit for :p ), etc.

Originally posted by Lmnop
I could say a few nasty things to Voila but I don't see how that would benefit anyone. That said, let's move on:

first off, when Voila defined skill, he defined skill at playing HALO, which is not even remotely close to FF. I'd describe it more as an intuition.
I've played as DD Warrior in a lot of parties with paladins. I've had Pallies of all the races. Sometimes, the paladins could keep hate, but I knew at any given time, my own Voke would pull hate to me (sometimes no voke needed). With other paladins, my vokes are useless. The sad thing is, 90% of paladins fall into the first category that I might as well tank and have the pally just sit back and cure me. My last paladin was very good. Hume paladin (subpar race, I suppose.......), held hate so well that I couldn't save her when whm DCed.
OK, so the point is that skill does exist. While the FPS 'twitchy' skill is where ninja tanks come in, paladins do require a lot of intuition to know when to do what. And in that, race has too little of an effect. Some of my worst plds were galka or elvaan.

http://www.champion-karate.com/misc/random/gwb1.jpg

With that being said, a rabbit will not make a good hunting dog will it? By definition, the rabbit must be a dog. Rabbits aren't born with the aggressive trait, and they don't hunt. They hop around, chewing on grass. So for a rabbit to make a good hunting dog, it needs the neccessary state of mind and intuition. Dogs are BORN, they COME WITH, this trait that allows them to chase down animals and rip them to shreds.

So for some one to build up skill in a certain area, they need a foundation to build upon. Tarutarus are given a playground for a foundation, while elvaans and galkas and humes are given acres of land to excell with.

We could argue this to death, but I've got the upper hand and I'm just biding my time. I'd like to see how much longer you guys can stand to be wrong until you start flaming me.

Tarus might be the BEST paladin because their huge manapool allows them to be far more cavalier with MP use than any other race, retaining more hate through curing and staying alive just as well, while simultaneously lessening the need for a WHM as PLD pts usually do. As a NIN, it barely matters, Tarus are second in DEX and AGI, both stats important to NIN, and a good NIN in any race gets hit like four times an hour so it doesn't matter. Most NIN hate comes from ninjitsu and not getting hit, doing decent damage (any race as NIN will deal more dmg than any race as PLD regardless) is a bonus. Besides, any race can wear Kote, any race can wear Byrnie, any race can wear snipers.

If anything ok MAYBE Taru WAR/NINs suffer compared to other races, but actually? Not really. Taru WAR/NIN tanks gods for my LS, I know of several other Tarus that tank on other servers, and you can find pics of players like Russta on this very forum talking about tanking as Taru.

And finally, there is one...ONE...melee stat that really matters. Accuracy. Another poster said it best, "when you miss you do no damage and gain no TP." No one gives a shit if any job as any race does ~4 more damage per hit or whatever if they don't hit to begin with. Every race can wear snipers, optical hat, +ACC weapons, lifebelt, whatever, and the +/- dex component of certain races vs. others means basically fuck-all in the end, in the end every race wears at least +50 ACC or more and every race does basically the same damage. In the end the only meaningful racial differences are HP/MP, and if anything MP is a much huger divide than HP. HP is pretty easily overcome. MP you need abjuration.

In conclusion you're wrong. Sorry.

Uh-huh...

Tarutaru Pld- Loses so much hate from the massive amounts of damage that healing really doesn't help with keeping the hate. In this situation it might be best to let an Elvaan Whm tank because death = no hate.

Tarutaru Nin- Are you shitting me? Go chang eyour job to whm. You have NOTHING to hold hate, and besides a flimsy provoke, NOTHING to gain hate.

It's like you people are REALLY retarded. Somebody needs to donate their car to Melwood so I can get payed for teaching this special learning program.

Originally posted by Voila!
I don't like Taru warriors, they get one shotted too often. I had a party where every leveled twice but the taru war because he INSISTED on tanking the greater pugils and was continuously being screwdrivered.

Fortunately for me I don't run into the taru tank too often because it's me who tanks. I'm a mithra and I tank well. No single shot deaths and I hit pretty hard to boot.

:mad: fuck you.... im taru WAR and i tank better than some of these shitty PLD with MNK sub
i have had NO problem getting to 54 so t(^.^t) you

Originally posted by Voila!
Tanking equipment is relatively inexpensive because there isn't as many tanks as there are damage dealers. People will invite tanking classes just because they're tanking classes with no regard for race.

Taru should stick to what they're good at.

BTW... Taru are good at any Job if they know what they are doing, Dipshit.... your just one a cocky person who thinks galka HAVE to be MNK or elvaan HAVE to be WAR and taru HAVE to play mage .. well i got news for you... ive seen some galka mage who own the shit out of taru mages
and taru melee/tanks who own the shit out of any other race

Only a retard would argue how a race shouldnt be doing a certain a job. It's a game, people play however they want and if they try hard enough they'll make it work. We have a Taru PLD in LS and has tanked every HNM there is. That's more than Voila has ever done that's for sure. :rolleyes:

Voila just can't stand that people break the mold to have fun and succeed at it. You're nobody Voila, you can't tell people how they should play a game that's for fun. You just come off as ignorant and arrogant.

You got me all wrong Hobojoe. I believe each race should play to it's advantages. Tarus have more MP then other races, so what should they do with that MP to make the best of it? NOT TANK.

I can tank 50x better then any taru and I HAVE. My retired Elv War/Nin tanked better then ALL of the TWO taru tanks that had the balls to level that far at the time, and he certainly tanked better then some of the paladins out there.

Guess why there aren't many taru tanks 40+. Because they suck. Why would SE give the different races different stats? BECAUSE IT MATTERS. It always has and always will.

Originally posted by Rudo
We have a Taru PLD in LS and has tanked every HNM there is.

Shit, my bullshit detector just went off. Let's see, where's the source... oh it's you.

Good job dumbass, if there's anything worse then a tarutaru tank it's a liar. Your reputation is ruined, and now nothing you say can be trusted. Unplug the internet and take a toaster oven bath for the good of mankind.

We also had a 75 taru PLD tank many hnms. Simurgh, Serket, Roc, Genbu, Zipacna (NM I guess, but tough), Suzaku - she tanked those all.

Well sir i do belive you have us taru's pined wrong. For example Taru's happen to have the second highest AGI witch is awsome for ninja's. So basiacly as long as you have enogh cash for awsome gear Taru's can blink tank w/ the best of them.

As far as your comment about tarus have nothing to grab hate besides flimsy provoke um... well i wasnt aware of any race spasifec hate grabing traits so correct me if im worng that comment made no sence.

And lasty for you comment on switching our job to whm well.... why would you want us to do that? Taru's have the one of the lowest MND. If you go buy our stats we make the best BLMs becouse we have the highest INT. Buy your ressioning all elven should be the ones playing as whm.

So i would advise you to look more closley at the facts before you start calling people retarted.

I advise you to take your own advice. The taru's natural large pool of MP excells them into any mage position. Mnd isn't as important to a Whm as Int is to a Blm. Most of the Whm's spells are based on the magic skills themselves. Elvaan's MP is fine and dandy, but when things get rough I'd feel better relying on a taru mage who can continue dishing out the magic with a capable tank.

I think you guys have me pegged all wrong. Being a materialist, I base my ideas, opinions, and form my facts off personal experiences. Not just one or two experiences, but several. My FFXI career extends back into the days of importing after beta closed and expands over several characters as I tried to find the niche that suited me best. As a thief I often create a lot of hate that challenges the tanks, thusly I'm able to compare and contrast and see the differences clearly.

I'm sorry if my material experiences don't match your idealistic logic, but a dog is a dog, a cat is a cat, and a taru tank is a taru tank. There's no saying that I must have partied with the crappy tanks, or I'm being too hard on them, or that I'm just plain wrong.

With this post I've tried to soften the thread up a bit and lean away from the flaming that was welling up here. Follow my example, please. I'm sorry if I've offended any of you; I noticed my posts got angrier and angrier. =/

Whatever Voila. I'm in Lunarians, the first NA HNM LS to kill every HNM in Bismarck besides the new Dragons of course. I've seen every type of tank race/job combo in HNM action. I myself as WAR/NIN have tanked/kited everything there is(again except the new Dragons). The Taru PLD from my LS in question has full Koenig short of boots and does a hell of a job tanking. He has fun doing it and gets the job done. So please keep on talking crap you don't know about cause you look more ridiculous with every post you make. :zzz:

I’d like to point out that I rather like Voila. I agree with him with most things except this thread. And I thank you for the attempt to soften the thread but I just want to point out some things…

I've had many taru tanks, and they could hardly keep hate.

Oh really?

I partied with a tarutaru paladin who would always lose hate with the same sneak attack I used when partying with the elvaan. It did around the same damage, but I did more damage with normal hits. I could instantly pull hate at any time during the fight with steal. It was pathetic.

I only took part of this story since you know the rest. Something in the wording just got to me so I had to dig deeper

I can tank 50x better then any taru and I HAVE. My retired Elv War/Nin tanked better then ALL of the TWO taru tanks that had the balls to level that far at the time, and he certainly tanked better then some of the paladins out there.

Oh never mind, I guess when you said many you meant 2.

Fortunately for me I don't run into the taru tank too often because it's me who tanks. I'm a mithra and I tank well.

I'll ignore the fact that Mithra have a low Vit growth too.

I’ll also just forget about the doublespeak and get to the point: I don’t believe you. You don’t have nearly enough experience with taru tanks to justify your claims.

Good job dumbass, if there's anything worse then a tarutaru tank it's a liar. Your reputation is ruined, and now nothing you say can be trusted. Unplug the internet and take a toaster oven bath for the good of mankind.

Hmm not only do I feel like someone should report you for being such an outright asshole, I believe if you stopped whining about taru tanks and started looking around the forums some more, you’d see some very interesting posts by Russta.

On another note...

Not just one or two experiences, but several. My FFXI career extends back into the days of importing after beta closed and expands over several characters as I tried to find the niche that suited me best.

Maybe if you weren’t so bent on the importance of race, you wouldn’t need so many characters?

By had I mean had in a party, not owned as an actual character. I'm not sure if that's what you're thinking, but I've also been at the same level as many other taru tanks as my Mithra character, and my past Elvaan characters.

I only chose Mithra this time because I was going to level thief. I did have to tank a little bit while leveling warrior to 30, but oddly enough there were a lot of paladins. I never said my mithra character could tank better then an elvaan or galka, because she couldn't. My Elvaan War/Nin who was at 52 could keep hate very well, and as far as I could remember tarus had given up ninja by then and there was one or two taru plds.

If anybody is whining, it's you guys. I've layed down the facts. I havn't whined, or complained, because there's nothing to whine or complain about. My point still stands, people should play to their strengths which means tarus shouldn't tank.

Try playing a non THF nor mage past 40 and tell us race matters. Kthxbey.

Are you kidding me?

well im a taru War and low lvl too. and sometimes its hard and sometimes its really fun. i like have hume wars underestimate me little guy and then i end up doing more dmg than they do. i know im only lvl 6 but i party sometimes just for fun. for instance when i was partying with the hume and we both had about 125%
TP we pulled out Fast blade. mine did 32 dmg and his did 14. then the other ppl in the party laughed at him. i didnt cuz i had the bronze sword and he had the onion sword. but still its only 1 dmg difference between the 2 swords so my guy was a better dmg dealer. and actually the party worked out great cuz he had more HP so he tanked and i dmged the monster. we had a taru brd and a galka whm. i gained 2 lvls that day. o yeah and we were the same lvl.

If anybody is whining, it's you guys. I've layed down the facts. I havn't whined, or complained, because there's nothing to whine or complain about. My point still stands, people should play to their strengths which means tarus shouldn't tank.

Facts? What facts? You haven't posted numbers, you haven't posted parser logs, you don't have any testimonies other than your own biased anecdotes, of which we have no proof that they even happened to begin with. You have no facts. When it comes down to it, we're arguing about numbers. We're arguing about how Tarutaru are supposedly so inferior at anything that isn't a mage job because of their "inadequate" stats. If you wanna argue about numbers, how about you show some real numbers? Or at least try using real logic...

Let's see...Tarutaru have lower STR and VIT and HP than Elvaan and Galka, supposedly the only races fit to tank. However, Tarutaru have higher DEX, AGI, and MP. People underestimate how important AGI is to a tank. AGI reduces how often the enemy scores critical hits on you and how often you block and parry. Taru PLD also have the higher MP pool working in their favor. MP is worth much more than HP. 8 MP will give you 30 HP when you cast Cure. DEX raises accuracy and increases the odds of scoring a critical hit. So, the Tarutaru has to work on his VIT and HP to tank. He can focus most of his equipment towards those, and he'll still have decent AGI and DEX and MP. The Elvaan, on the other hand, would want to put at least a bit of his equipment to raise his AGI and DEX some.

Oh, yes, and there IS a cap on STR and Attack. An Elvaan would hit that cap first.

Again, Skill > Equipment > Race.

You need to know how to employ your job abilities, when to draw hate, when not to draw hate, what to do in case of adds, how to skillchain properly, how to be a good trick partner, how to get the most out of your character with equipment, how to get those high exp chains, etc. Everyone needs proper equipment, or else they'll suck. Period. The least important factor is Race. Any stat differences can be compensated with equipment and merit points. And the difference in stats isn't big enough to not make x job viable for y race as long as they have the proper equipment anyways. Besides, people have to adapt. If you aren't taking that much damage, why go all-out defensive anyways? It'd be more useful to lean a bit more towards the offensive side. If the monster is hitting you very hard, then you'd want to sacrifice some of your offense for better defense.

Frankly, using an argument like "I've seen such and such Taru suck at his job" is preposterous. First of all, anyone can suck. Secondly, there's so many variables that you can't really claim that he sucked because he was a Taru from an anecdote like that. You have to think about what they were fighting, the equipment the people have, how they played, where they camped, the party setup, etc.

Tarutaru DD and Tank is perfectly viable. You just have to know how to.

Beecroft, you can gain levels 1-10 in a day. More if you don't get sick of playing after that. =/

Facts are facts, it doesn't matter if I don't know why they are facts, or if I don't have the proof to prove they're facts. They're still facts.

Race/Jobs that are viable per se, but would result in less EXP: Elv/Rng, Tar/Pld, Tar/Nin, Elv/Blm, Glk/Whm, Glk/Blm, Tar/Drk, etc, etc... The trend continues. Parties that invite those race/job combinations will be gaining less EXP due to more downtime or having to take more time to kill the monster, or whatever other reason because they've included races that weren't made to excell in that specific job.

Just like parties have to be assembled with a healer, a nuker, a tanker, and damage dealers to do the best it can, so does a character. Can you tell me why you'd invite a whm to heal instead of two blms? Because the blms wouldn't have the spells a whm would at that level and it could result in a death, and would result in less EXP.

Any race/job combo is viable, but to do the best a party can, they have to invite the 'extremes'. Inviting two war/whm to share tanking duties means more hectic healing for the whm(War/Whm mp pool is pathetic), one less slot for another required job, and a hassle at SATA for the thief if you've invited one. With a paladin you've got a single tank, another spot open for a more damaging job, and only one target for the whm to heal. So by inviting a Taru Pld/War you're inviting less of an extreme then if you invited an Elvaan, or Galka, or Hume.

I think we can all agree that Tarus shouldn't even attempt the Ninja job because it cuts off their oh so important MP pool.

If you're all up for fun or whatever the old noob's excuse is go ahead and mess around. Have fun while your friends level past you.

I'm tired of having to bring up the same point over and over just to refute the same point over and over. You've made your point about equipment and skill, and I've made my point about basic stats and party configuration compared to character configuration. Bring up some new points or I wont bother posting again.

I've typed this out in a rush and understand it may not make complete sense, so instead of trying to refute that you think I'm saying ask me what I'm really trying to say if you don't understand.

Um... Do you even play the game?

Any race can play any job. Skill > equip > race.

Taru's can play ninja, pld and all that. MP Pool? On nin?

You words are shit.

I myself am a Elvaan Ranger. You make it seem that we cannot hit the broadside of a barn.

Your words are shit, Do you even play the same game?

Lol...Elvaans don't make bad RNG. STR is just as important for ranged attacks and WS as it is for normal attacks.

Thing is, on paper what you say is true: Some races are "inferior" than others and the party would be better off with the "proper" race-job pairings. In reality, the stat differences are too small to hurt your exp/hour. And the whole point of a Ninja tank is that he won't take any damage. AGI helps them with that. Two WAR/NIN can take minimal damage too. This is starting to get old, and fast. Come up with a real argument and maybe I'll hear you out. From this point on, I'll just ignore your trolling, and I suggest everyone else do the same unless you want this to drag out for 5 more pages.

lol. i've held my tongue for quite some time now, but the more I read your posts Voila, the more I think you are getting your facts from the strategy guide than from practical experience.

addendum:
You know, by your own very logic, no one should invite humes at all because they are "not made to excell" in any job.

WHen I was leveling DRK in the Dunes way way way back who knows when, we had a Taru WAR as tank.
We got aggro'd by a Goblin Gambler (strongest goblins in the dune) and the Taru WAR dies, followed by a couple others (we all would have died if it hadn't dropped its gob bomb), anyway our Mithra WHM kicks him because she blames all our deaths on his race. But in reality we were level 13 fighting the strongest gob in the dunes, we were just asking for death.
I felt really sorry for the Taru though because he only spoke French, and didn't even understand why he had been kicked.

I have seen every race tank and every race is able to tank, you just have to keep Taru at higher health than other races because some mobs WS can really mess them up.
I could really only see lazy healers having problems with Taru tanks.

well i cant gain 1-10 lvls in one day
i can gain 1-4 lvls in one day and i dont really care how long it takes. like lvling whm is super hard cuz i cant hit for much dmg very well. im sorry im not as fast as you obsessed ppl.:mad: :p

omg Voila! i just read your post cuz i skipped over it when i first posted cuz i knew it would be bull crap. you talk like its the frikkin presidential debate. it is just a video game, it is meant to be fun and not taken too seriously. i mean sure i get mad when i die, who doesnt but its just a game. i am a taru war and i am having a ton of fun going against the grain. at least i am enjoying the game and not going by the book and doing just what my race excels in. sure i have low hp and dont do as much dmg as some other races but it is still a blast to slice up monsters and see it coming from a little guy who is underestimated. too me it sounds like your just a n00b readin the strategy guide and swearing by it, and that is just a dumb thing to do when it is, after all, just a game.

lol Dude... Voila... Do yourself a Favour and STFU!

Elvaan RNG owns and Taru PLD owns... etc etc...

High lvl Galka WHM on my server names Mondey and he kicks ass! Mondey is also a high lvl RDM. You got no idea wtf you are talking about.
Yes I will admit, that on Paper, that Taru are the worst Race for WAR. But, that doesnt mean that it can't be played to be the Best Character.

JP Taru Warrior named Jacky on lakshmi, out level'd everyone I know, he has to be doing something right. I PT'd with him when I was a 50+WHM but I was on another Job, in dunes. (he was lvl16 at the time, I was leveling SMN.) He kicked ass, Tanked Pugils for us and did a Good job. He had MNK sub at the time.
I met him again 2weeks later and he was lvl39 in CN, I was leveling Ninja. He had THF sub this time and was doing SA+SturmWind and once again, Kicking ass.

When I finally went back to WHM, and when I finally reached 60+ he was already in the 70's as a Taru Warrior.
He reached 75 not long after it, I checked him and talked to him as often as possible. (because Taru Melee rock.) Hes fought Gods including Kirin.

So before you start typing, do something impressive and actually think about what you are saying.

kthxbye

I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with a taru tank, but some of these posts are just ridiculous. Tarus can be great tanks, and therefore a player who wants to be taru but also wants to be a tank shouldnt have a problem. That goes for all race-job combos.

However, each race has defining stats (obviously, otherwise races would only differ by looks). At the same time, each job has stats which are most important to the job. The ideal would be to pair the job's important stats to the race's defining stats. Its common sense.

If you come accross an amazingly skilled Taru Tank with sweet armor, he would be even better if he were Elvaan with the same armor and skill. That is a fact that you cannot deny.

Taru tanks are fine, though I still want to know if a PLD taru can stand sickle slash and such as well as an Elvann or Galka... But I would never care about race...

I have seen galka mages doing better than other mages, as I have seen taru tanks better than others... though the Galka WHM25 doesn't have enough MP for raise is a bit scary =_=;;

Originally posted by Cali
Taru tanks are fine, though I still want to know if a PLD taru can stand sickle slash and such as well as an Elvann or Galka... But I would never care about race...

I have seen galka mages doing better than other mages, as I have seen taru tanks better than others... though the Galka WHM25 doesn't have enough MP for raise is a bit scary =_=;;

False. I had over 200mp at lvl 25 as a GAL whm/blm.

If you come accross an amazingly skilled Taru Tank with sweet armor, he would be even better if he were Elvaan with the same armor and skill. That is a fact that you cannot deny.
The statement itself is true; however, as I've stated before, this isn't a very good argument, because:
1) The odds of finding two players with the exact same armor is small.
2) Different races have different weaknesses, and each player should at try to cover up these weaknesses to a small extenct (An Elvaan WAR shouldn't focus all his stats into AGI and DEX just because he has little of it, but he should boost it a bit aside from boosting his VIT and STR so they're not so low) so they really shouldn't have the exact same armor.
3) Skill. The Elvaan could be a bad tank, so picking him over the Taru just because he has base stats that would benefit his job more isn't always the smartest move. Also, no two players are the same - each has their own strengths and weaknesses, prejudices and biases, and different experiences in-game, both will handle different situations differently even if it's just a small difference.
4) Taru does have its merits. Higher AGI and DEX than an Elvaan, basically. And AGI does matter, as it reduces the odds of having a critical hit scored on you, as well as raising your parrying/blocking rate. DEX helps them score critical hits and gives them extra accuracy (Note: I didn't say Elvaans have bad accuracy). If he has proper armor, he should be able to take and deal out the hits well enough, and he'll have those stats working for him in his favor, just like the Elvaan will have his own particular base stats working in his favor. Both have their advantages.

This being said, even if by some bizarre coincidence both Warriors had the same armor, it wouldn't be a fair comparison. I can see what you're getting at, though.

I have seen Taru Plds take sickle slash perfectly fine.

I play pld every now and then and i have servived screwdriver on a number of times.

Once when playing as my War i got 1hit kill from Sickle slash that was because i really up set the damn thing hitting it with Sneak Attack + Sturmwind = Sweet. I had berserk on so my def was extremly low so i died.

I have only seen and experience taru 1hit kills when the taru is using berserk any other time they live though 1 hitters just fine.

Oh cool, that's the only thing I'm not sure of about Taru tank, because the only Taru PLD I had was around lv40? against those helm beetles in nest, so was wondering how well are a taru tank vs some 3x attacks.

>>Baradak Sorry, that was what I was told about Galka whm25 not having MP for raise, I have never partied with one yet, the Galka mages on my servers are usually higher or lower lvl than mine ^^;;

I would say, like Mithra, Taru would make better tank as blink tank, rather than HP tank like Galka, or Elvaan would excel in.

A pld is not all about its Hp's ya they r a good thing but a good pld can work with his Mp very well.

Timing cure's to keep his Hp's up and keep hate is a thing taru can do very well at a taru pld has a hell of alot more Mp, Playing pld as a taru u need to be pretty skilled at getting ur cures in on time, With a galka or elvaan ya they have lots of hp's so they dont need to worry about casts getting interupted as much.

When i play pld i do my best to cure as much as i can so i dont get one hit from having like half health. I always try and keep myself 3/4 of health and doin this keeps hate very well.

U could say if its all about Hp's then why not just go with a galka war/mnk they have a hell of alot of Hp's but i say the plds best friend is mp having the mp to keep hate and to keep urself alive.

Its like everyone says Player Skill>Equip>Race.

We taru can make up for a weak points anyway like r str is not so high but i have my drg lved to up lv52 and i have +17 Str without food and i always use Mithkabob.

So any weakness can be fixed with the right gear.

Armando, your points are all valid, but they are also all unknowns when initially trying to create a pt. The only things you know when finding pt members are job/subjob, lvl, rank, race and nation.

Nation is basically meaningless and we are assuming that job, subjob and lvl are the same, so the only modifiers are rank and race. It's perfectly legit to choose the higher rank because it indicates more experience.

But if I see 2 pld/war of the same lvl lfg, one is a Elvaan and the other is Taru, and you have never pt'ed with either of them, I'm going to pick the Elvaan everytime.

Given the knowledge I have in that situation, which happens more than 75% of the time, the Taru has nothing on the elvaan, absolutely nothing.

Now the other 25% of the time there are other factors, which mainly result from comments. TNL, Equipment, etc..

Most of the time though, picking the Taru over the Elvaan is completely unjustified.

Originally posted by flipmazzi
But if I see 2 pld/war of the same lvl lfg, one is a Elvaan and the other is Taru, and you have never pt'ed with either of them, I'm going to pick the Elvaan everytime.


I'd pick the Taru. I don't like downtime.

Tarus are excellent exp PLDs, maybe the best.

Originally posted by Uroboros
I'd pick the Taru. I don't like downtime.

Tarus are excellent exp PLDs, maybe the best.

I agree. Not only that, if you're above lv30 or so, you'll find that taru Paladins have had to deal with racial prejudice all the time, and as such, take great pride in showing that Taru's make perfectly good Paladins. That tends to mean they have above average gear, use food, and can time cures excessively well. Elvaans riding on things like blind invites because their Elvaan tend to be different. However, after a certain level (I'd say around lv50 or so), all paladins tend to have great gear, since the majority of it isn't that expensive, and most Paladins are tanks because they take pride in what they do. There are exceptions like everything else...but the higher you get, the angrier paladins get at the fact that Ninja's "are so much better" (most paladins believe that much more strongly than anyone else. Ironically, most Ninja's think that Paladins are much better at everything. Typical penis envy inherent in competition with non clear "winner"). This drives paladin's to have the best gear that they can get.


Anyways, I also personally prefer Taru Paladins to other races. Why? Because when the inevitable "Oh Shit" occurence happens, Taru's usually have more MP in reserve to deal with it. Yes, there's more time before he's at full MP again, but it's usually before the mages recover, so his extra recovery time is usually moot. In addition, Taru PLD's work exceptionally well with the BLM/BRD/RDM backline that is frequently popular. The same is true of Ninja's, but Paladins usually require too much healing to be feasible without a WHM's higher Regens.

For a paladin (or any tank) during most emergency situations, you want extra HP more than extra MP.

Tarus are the worst paladin, although you could make a good argument for Mithra too. Elvaan/Galka are the best.

The very best exp paladin is going to be the one who takes the least amount of damage (and maybe does the most, too, PLDs do engage and any damage helps quicken exp). Having a 14-15 point VIT advantage over Taru is a huge bonus for Galka PLDs. Think of the number of times you're hit in an hour. That's going to be noticeable damage reduction almost every single hit... over the course of a party that's a lot of MP that the healers have been saved.

Taru PLDs are decent, even though they're the worst... but I wouldn't invite one if it were my group except as a last resort. The extra MP is wasted after 41, mostly, you're limited by your MP refresh rate, and hate control is a matter of skill more than anything. A Galka or Elvaan PLD who holds hate acceptably has no downside.

There's safety concerns as well.

My personal opinion is taru make the best plds because they have great Mp they can hold hate better with the Mp they got and still be able to give less downtime i aggre with AtraposBLM.

Having a galka pld that runs out of mp pretty quick just takes the whms mp more which offers more downtime which is not to fun post 55 since the exp needed per lv is a hell of alot higher.

The whole pld or nin thing ya some people perfer different but i hate having nin tanks ok they dont take as much mp but its boring just sitting there casting haste after haste and a bar spell every now and then and a few cures when the nin loses utsumi (i know i spelt that wrong but i dont care to much).

Mp = Key to hate control and key to keeping u a live.

U say pld dmg helps but plds dmg sucks only good thing is sprits within but if it was not for that and any dmg helps lets just have the whm and blm melee as well thats extra dmg and they will do just as much as pld.

Also post 70 there is pld gear that decreases str but increases vit a hell of alot a pld with that gear is goin to do basicly no dmg but take alot of hits.

Originally posted by Ozymandis
For a paladin (or any tank) during most emergency situations, you want extra HP more than extra MP.

Tarus are the worst paladin, although you could make a good argument for Mithra too. Elvaan/Galka are the best.

The very best exp paladin is going to be the one who takes the least amount of damage (and maybe does the most, too, PLDs do engage and any damage helps quicken exp). Having a 14-15 point VIT advantage over Taru is a huge bonus for Galka PLDs. Think of the number of times you're hit in an hour. That's going to be noticeable damage reduction almost every single hit... over the course of a party that's a lot of MP that the healers have been saved.

Taru PLDs are decent, even though they're the worst... but I wouldn't invite one if it were my group except as a last resort. The extra MP is wasted after 41, mostly, you're limited by your MP refresh rate, and hate control is a matter of skill more than anything. A Galka or Elvaan PLD who holds hate acceptably has no downside.

There's safety concerns as well.

Responses like this astound me with their ignorance, especially coming from someone who has breached lv60.


First of all, ask any paladin (or whm for that matter) how much damage difference Taru's take. At the most extreme, a taru might take 5-10 damage more max, and 0-5 damage more on average. I knew a taru paladin (Hamasaki) who had 12 VIT *more* than the same level Hume paladin (nameless), had only 100~ less hp, and nearly 300 more MP. What's bad about that, exactly?

Second of all, the majority of people who have EXP'd with a good Taru PLD have agreed that they make *by far* the best EXP paladins. They don't take noticeably more damage, they don't do noticeably less damage, and the fact that they have less HP is more than made up by the fact that they have more MP - think of it this way, every 24 mp they have more than another race is 180 hp more that a Taru effectively has. And no, it doesn't add more downtime because the taru PLD will NEVER BE RESTING LONGER THAN THE MAGES. Yes, if you compared the 2 paladins side by side, the taru will rest longer, but in the setting of the PARTY, that difference is irrelevant due to the fact that the mages will be using more mp, and despite a faster regen rate, will still need to rest longer.

Thirdly, for any type of blink tank (be it Nin/War, War/Nin, or otherwise), HP is just as irrelevant as MP is. Why? Because you the entire reason that you can tank is because YOU AREN'T TAKING ANY DAMAGE. In that case, you could argue that a Taru, with higher DEX, will hit more frequently, therefore do more damage, therefore hold hate better. However, the stat differences are minimal, so this arguement is just as immaterial as any of those above. Again, you could also argue that a Taru has higher AGI, so will evade better than a Galka/Elvaan, but here also the stat differences are minimal, particularly as you get into the upper levels.

Lastly, HNMing is the *only* time that a Taru tank might die more frequently than a different tank. However, I have no direct experience proving one way or another, so I will refrain from commenting here. I will, however, say that on Midgardsormr, the same tank I mentioned before (Hamasaki) is currently lv75, and I watched him tank Fafnir with no deaths, and not really any trouble. So it's possible, at least.

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Thirdly, for any type of blink tank (be it Nin/War, War/Nin, or otherwise), HP is just as irrelevant as MP is. Why? Because you the entire reason that you can tank is because YOU AREN'T TAKING ANY DAMAGE. In that case, you could argue that a Taru, with higher DEX, will hit more frequently, therefore do more damage, therefore hold hate better. However, the stat differences are minimal, so this arguement is just as immaterial as any of those above. Again, you could also argue that a Taru has higher AGI, so will evade better than a Galka/Elvaan, but here also the stat differences are minimal, particularly as you get into the upper levels.

Responses like this astound me with their ignorance.

AtraposBLM great post.

On kujata i see alot of plds with dark staffs for when they rest which is very handy i use one for my whm all the time when resting it helps alot.

Not all plds have dark staffs but alot do especially taru plds that i have ptied with there is always a brd or rdm in pty as well past 40 and at 41 refresh is very nice, Plds perfer refresh to ballads since it last longer.

So even if a pld runs low on mp with dark staff + refresh or ballad they will be at max befor any whm or blm that only uses half there mp.

Dark staff has droped in price so much since i got mine and i think more and more plds r getting them there 100k last time i checked but when i got mine i think it was 180k and i got that at that price because there was so many on sell.

I have had a guy on the server saying dark staffs r useless and not worth the money but i dont even think this guy has a job over 50 he was bragging on about how his rdm is like lv70.

This is a War tread anyway no matter how it work a good player can always make up for there weaknesses. I was lving today in Crawlers nest with 2 drks both were 2 lvs higher and me one with scytes and one with great sword i was using great axe my dmg was doin teh same and sometimes more and darks acc sucks big time.

We taru rock we can match any race at any job and even surpass any race.

Tarutaru - Impossible to gauge.

Anyone that sayz other wise is just jealous and more than likly never ptied with a proper taru melee.

We taru were not the strongest race and as some races think were all this we got uber str they get a little slack on gear no point got for that extra bit of str there we got lots of it. Taru melee pride r self on being the best we can we will spend alot of time to get that extra bit of str or vit no matter what stat we need we will always try and get the best stuff to increase even if its a extra point we will try and get it.

At first i started melee because i though it would be a challange to get melee to work very well with a taru since r str is so poor but with alot of work we can increase r weakness so we can be at r fullist at 52 with my drg i had +17 str i worked very hard to get all that gear for drg just to get the best i could and i could probly have got a little extra str there but like another +2 if i worked a little harder but there was no need for it my greatest thing i did with drg was lving in gariel cital in the basement i was lv 50drg/war berserk - mithkabob - double thrust chamber beetle 450dmg i loved it when i did that and im really happy that i pushed it that far. i had the same gear which gave me +17str i still have extra dex there too and Vit.

Drg is my fave job out of every job i have played and i have all but 4 jobs around lv40 the 4 jobs not at that lv is nin with i refuse to lv and rdm which im not to interested in at the moment and brd which is lv8 and bst which is lv15 and i have signa and hope rings and noble ribbon and bird whistle when i hit lv17 with bst and equip my signa i will have +17 chr the only reason i am lving bst is because i have a duo set up with a ls member.

A taru's pride in there job is a wonderful thing.

Originally posted by Daziz
Having a galka pld that runs out of mp pretty quick just takes the whms mp more which offers more downtime which is not to fun post 55 since the exp needed per lv is a hell of alot higher.

The whole pld or nin thing ya some people perfer different but i hate having nin tanks ok they dont take as much mp but its boring just sitting there casting haste after haste and a bar spell every now and then and a few cures when the nin loses utsumi (i know i spelt that wrong but i dont care to much).

The PLD's job is not to be a healer. It's to take as little damage as possible, and to hold hate. Also to do damage, not much but some. Tarus are good at holding hate and doing a lot of their own healing, but with low HP, low VIT, and low STR, they're inadequate at the other aspects of being a PLD.

Let me tell you how you can make yourself useful in a party with a ninja- throw out a Flash every now and again. Don't spam it, that might cause hate problems, but a few casts will help make life easier for your tank :)

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Responses like this astound me with their ignorance, especially coming from someone who has breached lv60.

Sorry, I've never had a really good Taru tank that impressed me. The best PLDs I've ever seen in action were Galka and Elvaan.

First of all, ask any paladin (or whm for that matter) how much damage difference Taru's take. At the most extreme, a taru might take 5-10 damage more max, and 0-5 damage more on average. I knew a taru paladin (Hamasaki) who had 12 VIT *more* than the same level Hume paladin (nameless), had only 100~ less hp, and nearly 300 more MP. What's bad about that, exactly?

The small difference in damage per hit will add up over time. Obviously individual hits won't show a large difference, but eventually the Taru will have taken a lot more damage.

That Hume PLD must have had awful gear :(

Second of all, the majority of people who have EXP'd with a good Taru PLD have agreed that they make *by far* the best EXP paladins. They don't take noticeably more damage, they don't do noticeably less damage, and the fact that they have less HP is more than made up by the fact that they have more MP - think of it this way, every 24 mp they have more than another race is 180 hp more that a Taru effectively has. And no, it doesn't add more downtime because the taru PLD will NEVER BE RESTING LONGER THAN THE MAGES. Yes, if you compared the 2 paladins side by side, the taru will rest longer, but in the setting of the PARTY, that difference is irrelevant due to the fact that the mages will be using more mp, and despite a faster regen rate, will still need to rest longer.

Oh god not the "effective HP" argument.

That MP>HP theory is only relevant for one class- beastmaster.

Having more HP has one benefit*, but it's a big one- survivability. Against mobs that have big special attacks, a tank needs as much HP as he can get. In link situations, a tank needs as much HP as he can get. It's crucial for a tank to be able to survive. When the tank dies it's likely that others will follow.


*Well, two- Spirits Within.

Thirdly, for any type of blink tank (be it Nin/War, War/Nin, or otherwise), HP is just as irrelevant as MP is. Why? Because you the entire reason that you can tank is because YOU AREN'T TAKING ANY DAMAGE. In that case, you could argue that a Taru, with higher DEX, will hit more frequently, therefore do more damage, therefore hold hate better. However, the stat differences are minimal, so this arguement is just as immaterial as any of those above. Again, you could also argue that a Taru has higher AGI, so will evade better than a Galka/Elvaan, but here also the stat differences are minimal, particularly as you get into the upper levels.

Have you ever partied with a blink tank? You're a 70+ BLM, so you must have. Here's a little secret:

Blink tanks do get hit sometimes.

Ideally, a ninja will be able to keep shadows up all the time. Realistically, there will be times when double attacks or just bad luck will leave you exposed.

This is why HP is CRITICAL for a ninja tank. We take heavy damage (with my equipment setup I have no defense whatsoever) so all you can do is survive until your timers are ready.

Tarus have the same DEX as Hume and Galka. The only race who they surpass in that area is Elvaan. And Elvaan have a lot more strength... Taru does the least damage as ninja. In their favour, as you said, higher agility. Even with that, Tarus are arguably the worst ninja.

I've partied with Taru tanks before. They were never the main tank, but I have partied with a few. In those occurances, they did very well at back up tanking. Admittedly they were "we need a 6th member, just find somebody so we can level," but they turned out to be an asset to the team.

I've never partied with a Taru PLD, however I have watched a friend party with a Taru PLD. They were Rank 7, and had a Lv.70 BLM, and Lv.50 WHM. They had plenty of gil to support them, and plenty of know how. With 3 trigger happy BLMs in the group, he held hate with no problems at all. If I ever had the chance, I'd pick that Taru PLD over any other tank just from seeing him in action.

But I must confess to selecting certain races in certain jobs while searching for party members. You check Jeuno for a tank, you see two PLDs, one's Elvaan, the other Taru. Both the same level, same rank, neither have anything compelling listed in their search comments, so we grab the Elvaan.

We know that Elvaans have higher HP and VIT over a Taru. The fact that the Taru may have 150+ more MP then the Elvaan doesn't really come into consideration.

It's not really fair that we do this, but we do. Same sort of thing goes on when we select mages. You see a Taru SMN/WHM and you select them over an Elvaan or Galkan WHM/BLM. Hell I've been kicked from parties as an Elvaan RDM before. Nevermind I have MND+20 or INT+17 as needed, and plenty of MP+ equipment, as stated in my search comments. I've joined parties to hear the leader say another player is complaining that an Elvaan mage was invited at all. After 10 minutes of fighting that same person is singing my praises.

And there's where the last train of thought comes into play. A Taru PLD has to do a lot to impress upon their party members. In a way they have to have a chip on their shoulder. They think that they were only invited because nobody else was around, and the party already worries that they will fail. So they come in with kick ass armor, and kick ass skill. Doing everything they can to make them think they are the greatest PLD on the server. I know that's the same mind set I take into being an Elvaan RDM.

Topic hurting eyes, must stop checking.

I will say I like Galka PLD about as much as I like the flu. Sorry to gank an LJ photo but this (http://www.xs4all.nl/~ultrast8/ffxi/live/girtablulu.jpg) sums up my thoughts on Galka PLD.

War-I've yet to see a good taru warrior. Even the one in all HQ eqiupment got owned and was of high rank. HP,VIT,STR are the most importent stats, and while it's possible to overcome a weakness, there isn't enough equipment slots to overcome 3 MAJOR weaknesses.

Ninja-I like ninja tanks no matter the race but taru would be my last choice. In la la land ninjas never ever get hit or a 2nd mob(link/add). However FFXI isn't a nice little ideal place. When they get caught without utsusemi up or a 2nd mob I'd definitely want the ninja with 100s more HPs.

Pld- I have nothing against inviting taru plds at all. However I disagree with taru being the best, I feel galka is. If I saw 2 or more plds seeking from different races, and all things remained constant except their race, well it would depend on the current setup. With a hate controller such as thf, plds can afford to expand less mp, making galka the best option and elvaan equally darn good. But pld is one of those jobs that in xp situations can be played very well with any race because every pld is better in different situations. Remember though it's 2 major advantages(HP+VIT) and a minor advantage(str) vs just one major advantage(mp). You figure out what's overall better. Also some other things...

-0-10 damage difference a hit can really add up in battles that aren't short. Such as battles inbetween those lvl 3 SC during tp building. In the battles inbetween that last a decent amount of time when tp is being built, a taru is going to take far more damage over time. Battles shouldn't last long enough that a pld had to use all his MP to keep hate anyway.

-Pld damage might not be a ton but it's actually worth mentioning. They have a 4/5 str rating surprisingly, and total damage per battle they can score 5-10% out if they're above your average player.

-While yes with tons of def and vit gear the disadvantage of taru can be overcomed somewhat, a galka's mp problems can equally be eased a bit. Starting off battles with HP>MP rings alone gives an extra 40-50 worth of mp to use at the start. They could get more mp if they wanted in other pieces. And after expanding the mp given in equips, switch over to their vit and all def equips.

The best pld I've seen was a galka which did what I just said. Started with +mp gear and after using it up switched to vit gear. He had absolutely no hate problems, and could even hold hate off a 300-500 SATA+VP+SC if I did it midbattle off the DD. This was in the late 40s and should speak for itself. If the galka pld is holding hate fine as is, what good is extra mps he'll never need? Assuming the main healer has more than enough mp.

Besides 75% of the people on these boards and in the game are biased against galka anyway. Most people are pro mithra,elvaan, or tarutaru anyway. The humes can't win debates with all middle of the road stats but we never get owned either :)
Then there are galka. By far the least liked race overall, so taru>galka replies really don't surprise me.

Taru-It's no fair!!! We can overcome hp,str, and vit advantages with only 12 equipment slots while maintaining our strengths! Everyone should invite us first.

Galka-... Ya I know what you mean, I bet I could go all out mp which is only one disadvantage to overcome and pull the hard route off too.

Everyone else- OMG noobzer, wtf R U talking abuot smelly galka?

I see it too much, everyone encouraging the taru most of the time saying it can be done effectively to pull the hard combo off with the right equipment. Then these people turn around and spit in the galkas' faces trying the same things, usually.

Seven pages arguing over something that's all based on personal opinions and past experiences :rolleyes:

Voila! I wish you will silence your trap.. your giving us mithras a bad name ; ;

My b/f is a taru.. and a 75 Ninja.. I lvled with him all the way through with many jobs. His PLD is 55 (quit because that kind of tanking did not interest him), and his warrior is currently level 64 (hes leveling this on the side for just fun).

I'm a mithra, if you couldnt tell ><, but when we began the game our roles were reversed. He was a Tarutaru WHM, I was a mithra Warrior (by the way mithra warriors/plds are about as weak (stats wise) as tarus if you want to go there). We switched later on because I enjoyed the magic side of things and he enjoyed the melee side of things, specifically tanking..

We talked it over and we were ready to actually switch races almost, except he was going to go hume male, and me tarutaru female because they seemed like the best races for the jobs we wanted to play. But we later decided not to bother because we wanted to be the races we wanted to play (he was a gnome warrior in EQ and the first on our server to do any major tanking on big bosses and the first gnome warrior to reach any high level when they kept increasing the cap).

Well going from 1-75 with a tarutaru ninja has its advantages and its disadvantages.

First thing is first though.. He has only been oneshotted as a ninja 0 times. Never have I seen him die from one special attack or anything.

Second, his dmg is really well, a little bit higher than our friend whom is a mithra ninja.

Third, he keeps hate really well. Any ninja will lose hate depending on how extreme the party is going with dmg, like a rng spamming arrows will get hate even if the ninja tank was a galka or elvaan.

Fourth, he dodges a lot, and I mean a lot of attacks. Perhaps its his equipment or perhaps its his race + skill.. i'm more on the skill side.


Voila! I gotta tell you.. any ninja will get hit, if you didnt know, i'm assuming your possibly below level 40 maybe even 50, just based on your opinions.

Warriors, it is obvious that any other race will do more dmg with the same equipment than a taru. But your leading people to think that a taru warrior will hit for say 30-45dmg with 2 axes, and any other race will hit for 70-100 dmg.. This is obviously false. The dmg difference is probably about 5-10dmg if both warriors had the same equipment.

The only real factor is Hitpoints. There is nothing a taru can do to compensate their low hp to equal that of a galka, same goes for MP if you were talking about galka mages.

Get over yourself Voila!.. Mithra is possibly the worst race to be a tank (minus ninja) if you wanted to play the race card. Just barely surpasses a tarutaru.

Originally posted by JungBunny
Voila! I gotta tell you.. any ninja will get hit, if you didnt know, i'm assuming your possibly below level 40 maybe even 50, just based on your opinions.

Get over yourself Voila!.. Mithra is possibly the worst race to be a tank (minus ninja) if you wanted to play the race card. Just barely surpasses a tarutaru.

What the?

I'm currently a level 36 thief that does 350+ on normal SATA, and 500+ with SATA VB. If I'm giving Mithra a bad name, the rest of you are too. I don't see how my +15 Dex, +12 Agi, and +4 Str among other things make us look bad. =/

By the way, my arguement was that ninjas would get hit as opposed to one based on ninjas having blink up at all time. I took warrior to thirty first because it get's a lot of invites up until thirty.

From the looks of it your boyfriend is a very skilled player, and my original arguement was taru don't make the best tanks and I stand by it. Your boyfriend would be unstoppable as a hume, elvaan, or galka.

Voila.. hes unstoppable already as a taru lol.. being a hume/galka or elvaan will only hinder his ability as a ninja due to tarus high agi..

He rarely gets hit, only when someone else in the party does something that requires him to regain agro and focus on that more than counting shadows. This is rare, and only happened in pickup parties.

I'm glad hes taru.. because nothing is sexier than a tarutaru ninja using blade:ten :X

WRONG

nothing is sexier than a taru unleashing Asuran Fists or Tachi:Gekko

I'll back up LotusWing on the taru Asuran fist bit. :thumbsup:

Mithra make the worst tank... lol

Mithra has more hp than taru, more/same AGI as taru, more VIT than taru.... Why are they the worst when taru has all those tank disadvantages? O.o; If you talk about a PLD, then it may be is true.. but even as a Mithra PLD, I can tank better than any supposedly BEST tank race I met. From what I know, tank is about holding hate, as a Mithra myself, I will be modest, and say I can hold hate better than all those tanks I partied with. :p

Anyway, Taru's Dragon Kick is the best, or Minstrel axe(sp? the throw axe WS)

Originally posted by JungBunny
Voila.. hes unstoppable already as a taru lol.. being a hume/galka or elvaan will only hinder his ability as a ninja due to tarus high agi..

He rarely gets hit, only when someone else in the party does something that requires him to regain agro and focus on that more than counting shadows. This is rare, and only happened in pickup parties.

I'm glad hes taru.. because nothing is sexier than a tarutaru ninja using blade:ten :X

Unstoppable... in Ballista? I think not. He'll be trampled on by just about any other job.

Taru aren't sexy at all... Once your blood-alchohol level comes down a few notches I'm sure you'll feel differently.

Okay voila i'll talk about something useless since you brought up bastilla :X.. That perhaps has nothing to do with what we are talking about.. what the heck is wrong with you?

And the above mithra.. I believe mithars make good tanks.. Tarus make good tanks as well as any other race.. Simple fact is a lot of people cannot play Ninja and so go with PLD so they can somewhat slack more.

Okay dont give me that bull about PLD make better tanks overall ect. ect... Its just a little known fact that it takes a lot more skill to play a ninja than a pld, i'm not saying nin are better than pld, just they require more skill to be on the same lvl as a pld.

Taru nins have it harder because they have a smaller gap of mistakes due to their HP.. but so do mithra ninjas. Ever see a mithra ninja tank something 60+ without any shadows? They go down about as fast as a taru, as do humes. Elvaans and galkas can take a couple more beatings, but in the end, their hp is going to be loss just as fast. It really depends on your WHM and how quick they are with heals.

I'll be modest here and say I make one of the better healers for ninja tanks having growing up with my b/f's taru ninja as main tank for 75 lvls. I learned when I can/cant slack off on cures or being prepared with them. :rolleyes:

Bastilla is crap lol.. unless you try to go like taru nin vs hume nin or something like that.. even then my b/f defeated a galka nin @75 in bastilla :).. How did he do it? skill.. was the galka a loser or messed up? Possibly.. i'm not saying he can defeat all galka ninjas, but the galka could not hit him for nothing.. both had same gear pretty much, since they are in the same LS.

1. its Ballista not Bastilla
2. Voila is probably posting just to piss u guys off
3. if u pt with someone that is either gimped, has no skill, or a pest, then kick and invite someone else

end of story, goodbye

Thanks for wrapping that up for us Lotus, I can finally die in peace. You forgot to add number four: 'Facts are facts and if we wanted a soccer ball for a tank we'd invite Mia Ham.'

Statistically, and through popularity, Elvaans and Galkas and Humes and Mithras and the imaginary race of mice-men I made up just now for the sole purpose of proving my point, are better tanks then taru.

There's level 75 ninjas in each of the three most popular En HNMLSs on Seraph, and none of them are Taru.

(| Hmm... |) (| What? |)

Originally posted by Voila!
There's level 75 ninjas in each of the three most popular En HNMLSs on Seraph, and none of them are Taru.

:confused:

So because someone's personal preference on aesthetics makes the other class suck?

I guess that means that every person whore decides to play a mithra is a 2-dollar whore looking to get some cyber action going on.

ZQM... HAHAHA.. your wrong! i'm 1.5 dollars :) or for lotus thats one dollar and fifty cents..

Get a life lotus :X.. n/m forgot you majorezfd inenglizzh hepls em unerdstandz? :angel:

Voila all that proves is that everyone one of those ninjas wanted to be a hume elvaan galka, w/e.. on my server theres a lot of taru ninjas 75 in HNM ls.. not over 40 but i can actually name around 4-7 that are 75. Perhaps ninjas on my server are just more skilled? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Russta
Seven pages arguing over something that's all based on personal opinions and past experiences :rolleyes:

;)

Hopefully this is my last post in this thread.
First off, I would like to say, like I've said all along, that I respect Taru tanks.

This argument for Tarus being better tanks because they have to "work harder" is absolute BS. Every solid played in this game wants to be the best they can be. Tanks especially because their job is so obviously vital for a pt. There have been times where i haven't held hate well, so what did I do? You think I just ignored it and hurt xp for a different pt? NO, I went and fixed it, because I want to be a good tank. Whether it meant, getting better equipment, getting food etc... I got better. Its called a learning curve and every FFXI player goes through, but in different ways. Elvaan and Galka tanks are not spoiled, but their learning curves differ than what tarus have to go through.

Also this stuff about Tarus having a "chip on their shoulder" because they are the minority of tanks is also BS.
Analogy:
In Basketball, the majority of good players are black, yet there are some white players also. Now, these white players are very good, some just as the black players in fact. However, anybody who suggests that most white players would be better just because they are less of them, and they have less natural skill, therefore they have more to prove and try harder, is in reality flat out wrong. In works in theory, but only because you assume that other players dont have motivation.

ELVAAN are the pimped out, thugging black ballers who dominate the tanking world.

You cracka ass TARU need to know your role.

ehh.. okay i'll listen to you level 41 warrior/ninja ; ;

maybe you should go back to your role and be more of a listener than a speaker ;)

Originally posted by flipmazzi
Hopefully this is my last post in this thread.
First off, I would like to say, like I've said all along, that I respect Taru tanks.

You cracka ass TARU need to know your role.

u kinda contradicted urself :confused:

Jungbunny, Flip is a War/Mnk. Good job :thumbsup:

In Basketball, the majority of good players are black, yet there are some white players also. Now, these white players are very good, some just as the black players in fact. However, anybody who suggests that most white players would be better just because they are less of them, and they have less natural skill, therefore they have more to prove and try harder, is in reality flat out wrong. In works in theory, but only because you assume that other players dont have motivation.

sorry people below level 70 dont mean much :biggrin:

people like Voila make Lenny sad. T_T

i have mad respect for anyone that can tank anything alot bigger than they are. i got to see a Taru tank king behemoth the other day, it was so cool.

Below 70 or not doesn't mean you are newbie or godly or whatever... It just a number in game, to be proud of such thing is pathetic to start with...

If taru can tank, they can tank all the way from 1-75, you don't need 70 lvls to realized that, if you do need that much time, you are... a little too... 'smart' :angel:
And the fact is, taru can tank, just like galka can be mages.

wow cali I'm sorry you cannot tell a joke :rolleyes:

:thumbsup:

the only thing I'd like to add to your last sentance Cali is, yes they can, but they need to work very hard at it.

This argument for Tarus being better tanks because they have to "work harder" is absolute BS. Every solid played in this game wants to be the best they can be

He makes a good point. Alot of you are stating because taru tank is harder to pull off successfully, that almost all taru tanks are skilled. This is infact like he said, absolute BS.

Do players honestly see a 60 taru and 60 galka ninja or war tank seeking and think "Hmmm I'll get the taru because he had to work harder." That's like taking the statement "Money doesn't always equal happiness" , and then saying " Rich people are sad because they have money and poor people are happy be nature."

Some of you are assuming the heavier races automatically don't care about their equipment because of race advantages.

Your basketball analogy really doesn't fit.

White guys dont have -10 jumping skill compared to black guys, or -10 motivation.


What is a simple reality is that tarus have a smaller margin of error, and speaking as a taru ninja, any other race can take 600 damage or so ( 912 hp @ lvl 68 in my exp gear ) and not be too worried, do it to me and I'd be on 300hp, all it takes is a lucky WS to finish me off.

Taru tanks have to learn to work to lower margins than any other race, we'll recieve more deaths ( all those times you survived at 1-400hp, we taru probably would have eaten it ), and as a result more taru tanks probably quit than any other jobs, resulting in a more skilled field of tarus than any other race at higher end.


that by no means is dismissing elvaan/galkan/hume/mithra as "lower skill", your just as likely to have an equal number of highly skilled players, we just have a higher % ratio of good to bad :-]

/clap Gryff.. thats what i was trying to say :X

Originally posted by Gryff
Your basketball analogy really doesn't fit.

White guys dont have -10 jumping skill compared to black guys, or -10 motivation.


What is a simple reality is that tarus have a smaller margin of error, and speaking as a taru ninja, any other race can take 600 damage or so ( 912 hp @ lvl 68 in my exp gear ) and not be too worried, do it to me and I'd be on 300hp, all it takes is a lucky WS to finish me off.

Taru tanks have to learn to work to lower margins than any other race, we'll recieve more deaths ( all those times you survived at 1-400hp, we taru probably would have eaten it ), and as a result more taru tanks probably quit than any other jobs, resulting in a more skilled field of tarus than any other race at higher end.


that by no means is dismissing elvaan/galkan/hume/mithra as "lower skill", your just as likely to have an equal number of highly skilled players, we just have a higher % ratio of good to bad :-]

Exactly. When I tried to make this point, I was talking about lower levels. Yes, you'll find lots of newb taru tanks, and lots of newb other race tanks, but if you see a Taru tank, you're more likely to see someone who's either playing a second job, or someone who is determined to tank as a taru. Simply, there's just a higher chance at lower levels to see a taru decked out than a different tank decked out. I'm not saying that's how it always is, but if you're looking at two tanks LFP, one taru, one other, I'm going to pick the taru because chances are that taru is one of those determined ones. IMO, that would be a better fit for my party than a random newb who thinks his elvaan is 1337 and doesn't need gear.

By NO MEANS am I saying that all taru's are more skilled/dedicated. I just meant that in lower levels, where the playing field is larger, and the chances of getting someone who has no clue what they're doing is much higher than 50+ or 60+, picking a taru gives you a much better chance of getting someone with good gear. In my original post, I went on to say that by 50+, everyone (including first timers, and former slackers), tends to figure out what they're supposed to do. Many people that pick Elvaan, Galka, or Hume, do so with the intent of becoming a tank, and so they picked what they felt was the best race for it. These are the people that are well equipped, above and beyond the average, and will make the *best* tanks, period. My point, however, was that the vast majority of players are *not* like that. As Gryff said, those lazy tanks that play taru tend to get weeded out quicker and sooner than other races, so your chance of getting a dedicated taru is higher than getting a dedicated Hume/Elvaan/Galka/other.


By no means am I saying that equally equipped Taru's and equally equipped Galka's will tank the same. However, against certain mobs (in particular, ones that don't have High-Damage specials (sickle slash)), Taru's make the best choice to exp with, as their MP advantage makes it easier to chain. Against those with high-damage specials (Spiders, HNM, Manticore), more HP becomes a much bigger advantage than more MP, and you would rather have a Galka, Elvaan, or Hume tank than a Taru. Bottom line though, the stat differences are *minimal*. The only difference is HP/MP. Sometimes one is better than the other - saying it always goes one way is just silly. Even though sometimes its better to have more HP than MP or vice versa, I've personally seen it done in the opposite fashion as well (Galka's tanking low-damage but long lasting fights, and taru's tanking high-damage but short fights). Taru tanks require different playing styles, just like Hume tanks play differently than Elvaans, and Elvaans play differently than Galkan.

my prob with Taru NIN's is if that one WS gets by from the mob, that taru is DEAD....>_> (Sickle Slash, Uppercut, and that manticore one come to mind of one-hitting Taru NIN's for me)

Originally posted by Hisdon
my prob with Taru NIN's is if that one WS gets by from the mob, that taru is DEAD....>_> (Sickle Slash, Uppercut, and that manticore one come to mind of one-hitting Taru NIN's for me)


never died to any of those WS.

deadly hold in teriggan has hit me twice, and only for 400-500 each time, not exactly stellar.

http://www.pplsdbz.net/~zquestionmark/ffxi/ouch.JPG

OWNED

yesterday my pt had 2 tarus, in khazam, main tank and puller, the tank didnt have the topnotch armor or anything, but he did fine oO, i, a rdm, was main healer since we had no whm, and i rarely had less than 100 mp, which means the tank and sub tank were doing a good job managing the hate, i didnt, for a second, think that tarus cant tank, they can, plus, i bet theyre even beter than the galkas or elvaans, why? because they have to work real hard to be the best because of stat differences, and they do it, and only the best can do it, makes sense

My b/f been hit with a lot of WS's but never got one shotted like I said earlier except for one time but that was in the 50-55 range that it happened and I fell asleep on the computer so he was getting hit and then he used the WS that finished him for 385hp..

So taru's getting Oneshotted or you believe that happends all the time is false.

Originally posted by ZQM
http://www.pplsdbz.net/~zquestionmark/ffxi/ouch.JPG

OWNED


*_*

Like I said, I've been exping there for a while and will be for a bit longer, Only taken two deadly holds, both for 400-500, and my defence is like 200 :/

Originally posted by ZQM
http://www.pplsdbz.net/~zquestionmark/ffxi/ouch.JPG

OWNED
Haha!

Nothing like seeing the maintank's HP go from full to 0 in a split second to wake a party up.

This thread sure is silly.

Originally posted by Gryff
*_*

Like I said, I've been exping there for a while and will be for a bit longer, Only taken two deadly holds, both for 400-500, and my defence is like 200 :/

My defense is something like ~160ish (Funny how a NIN tank has more DEF and VIT then a WAR tank :o), got hit several times but only died once. That was only one of two times that I was hit for 1k+, other's were 400-500. ;) Funny to laugh back on though.

One time though, we had a RNG/WAR....died 3 strait skillchains when doing Sidewinder > Dancing Edge. Mob turned to him right after Sidewinder and one-shotted him with Deadly Hold. :p

EDIT: Just to add, the RNG was a hume.

Exactly. When I tried to make this point, I was talking about lower levels. Yes, you'll find lots of newb taru tanks, and lots of newb other race tanks, but if you see a Taru tank, you're more likely to see someone who's either playing a second job, or someone who is determined to tank as a taru. Simply, there's just a higher chance at lower levels to see a taru decked out than a different tank decked out. I'm not saying that's how it always is, but if you're looking at two tanks LFP, one taru, one other, I'm going to pick the taru because chances are that taru is one of those determined ones. IMO, that would be a better fit for my party than a random newb who thinks his elvaan is 1337 and doesn't need gear.

My whole post was about not making dumb assumptions and here you go and make a stupid one.

"More likely to see someone who's either playing a second job, or someone who is determined to tank as a Taru."

Completely not true. Nothing about seeing a low level taru tank leads one to think that they are playing a second job. Using your same reasoning (which is completely arbitrary). I could say that its not only the taru's first job, but he is also a super noob and doesnt even realize that different races have different stats. In the same strain, nothing about seeing a Elvaan/Galka tank makes you think that they are noobs.
I judge a noob as:
1. someone who doesn't know their role in a party
2. someone who doesn't use macros
3. someone who doesn't know how to skillchain
4. someone who doesn't know how to "talk in blue"

There are several other things, but my point is, if you are going to judge noob status by race and job you need to be smacked.

There are more reasons to be a taru tank then trying to prove people wrong. People choose tarus because they are cute and fun. People pick melee because they like physical combat as opposed to magic. The beauty of this game is that it lets you do both. Also, if you main effort is to prove tarus can be good tanks, your efforts are futile, because every smart player knows this. (I have never said tarus are bad tanks, i only say they arent better than elvaan, you can check the whole thread for yourself if you wish.) The only players who won't acknowledge that tarus can tank are the ones you don't want to be partying with in the first place.
Now if you want to assume the Taru is determined because he's taru, you have to assume that the elvaan is determined because he's elvaan. It's the exact same logic. The only difference then, is skill. If you dare say that taru's are more likely to be skilled because they are Taru, you deserve to be smacked again.

Gryff's post has been the only good pro-taru post in a while. I know that all you deep inside realize that the only thing that makes a Taru tank good is the individual player's skill. As gryff said the margin of error is smaller, but skill is not something you can determine unless you have actually played with the person before. So why would you pick the player with the smaller margin of error? It just doesn't make sense.
Let me put it this way, I'll pick the Elvaan over the Taru everytime is all other known aspects are similar., But if the Taru is the only option, of course I'll pick him. I'm not some idiot who is going wait around for an elvaan or galka tank.

This is just an aside but how does a manticore get your shadows down to actually hit you? I tanked one of those in Onzozo last week... after getting stuck with Hojo and Carnage Elegy its delay was like... 20 seconds :biggrin:

Double attack + tail whip, you = fucked.

:)

yeah, sometimes they'll double attack and take the shadows off, then wip out their WS

Originally posted by flipmazzi
My whole post was about not making dumb assumptions and here you go and make a stupid one.

"More likely to see someone who's either playing a second job, or someone who is determined to tank as a Taru."

Completely not true. Nothing about seeing a low level ta