help me out

[neontsukasha]

alright, i have blm 30 and its my fav job compared to my others, i want to go back but i rushed so much as a newb that i had 120k worth of missing spells what should i do? should i just leave it alone or just make it die alot and delvl over and over?o rwhat?

[SephirothYuyX]

Farm..

[Thegod]

depends what spells your missing.

i'd farm for all elemental debuffs i.e. drown frost, shock, burn ect.

i'd first make sure i had all elemental spells i.e. stone2 wateraga blizzaga ect.

i'd do the quest for drain and aspir and sell them to make gil to buy other more usefull spells, know that your gonna have to buy them back.

[mdn]

there aren't "more useful" spells than aspir and drain.

[riceburner4540]

i have to agree with mdn on this one. selling drain and aspir is a terrible, terrible idea. drain is the most mp efficient spell in the entire game. it gets more powerful as you level...and at my level, i can do up to 250-280 with a drain and heal as much. ignoring the healing aspects of it, thats 11.9 to 13.3 damage per mp!! just for comparison, a blizzard III will do...say...580 for me. thats a mere 4.8 damage to 1 mp. and aspir...well, free mp...need i say more?

now...when you're saying you're missing 120k worth of spells, i'm assuming you're including drain and aspir, since your other spells combined shouldn't cost that much. quest for those, ignore the spikes and perhaps the -ga spells, and that should leave you with stone II, water II, and the elemental debuffs. i'm going to assume you have warp, escape, tractor, and sleep (since they're pretty much necessities...not to mention cheap or questable). if you're missing other spells, quit blm now. make it a priority to own every single target, non-ancient nuke the moment you can use it....except maybe water IV. remember, spells > equipment.

[Senate4242]

In my many trips through Garlagie I was very suprised at the amount of BLMs without Sleep or Escape. It was very sad each time as those are both VERY useful there.

[TheMidg]

Thegod, thanks for the random picture. It proved quite useful :rolleyes:

Originally posted by riceburner4540
make it a priority to own every single target, non-ancient nuke the moment you can use it....except maybe water IV. remember, spells > equipment.

Water IV is an incredibly important spell to own...

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by TheMidg
Thegod, thanks for the random picture. It proved quite useful :rolleyes:



Water IV is an incredibly important spell to own...


Not really. There's never really a reason to cast it, seeing as when you get it, there are more efficient spells to cast if you don't have a Water Staff. If you do have a water staff, then when you get it, it's simply too much aggro. I'll give numbers:
Without water staff, it does ~630 or so damage max. Possibly more, possibly less, but that seemed to be about the most I did (water day knocked it up to around 700 damage). To put that in perspective, for less MP, I could cast Thunder III, which, with a thunder staff, does about 650 or so damage. Or, if I wanted to spend even less MP, I'd cast Blizzard III for 600 damage. Both of which are much smarter options for the damage/mp ratio.

With a water staff, the spell becomes much better. I usually did about 720-730 damage with it (760 or so on water day), consistently. The problem with that is that its almost never feasible to cast that kind of spell at lv70-71 (maybe it gets feasible later, but I'm not that high level yet). I could either cast a B3, a T3 and my Firaga/Blizzaga III burst, or I could cast 1 Water IV, get hate, mess up the skill chain, and probably miss the burst. I'd pick the two smaller spells, over the one large spell.

Other than that, the only other instance you would use Water IV would be if you're HNMing. The main use there would be on Fafnir/Nidhogg. There, I find that my IV line of spells gets *heavily* resisted (keep in mind I'm still only lv71). Therefore, I don't tend to cast Water IV as its a huge MP sink for not that much damage. Also, resists tend to be fairly random on HNM. Therefore, I'd rather pick a spell that does less damage, and save some MP. Why? Because if I get the random near-full-damage cast, it's much more usefull to my shell if I only do ~400 or so damage, rather than ~650 or so damage, seeing as if I suddenly do 650 damage I'll get hate and die. Then I'm out of comission for a long time...meaning I'm utterly useless to the shell. I wouldn't consider buying Water IV unless I already had a Water Staff.


For some reason, I have a much harder time landing IV's than I do landing III's, regardless of the mob, unless I'm using the appropriate staff.

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Not really. There's never really a reason to cast it, seeing as when you get it, there are more efficient spells to cast if you don't have a Water Staff. If you do have a water staff, then when you get it, it's simply too much aggro. I'll give numbers:
Without water staff, it does ~630 or so damage max. Possibly more, possibly less, but that seemed to be about the most I did (water day knocked it up to around 700 damage). To put that in perspective, for less MP, I could cast Thunder III, which, with a thunder staff, does about 650 or so damage. Or, if I wanted to spend even less MP, I'd cast Blizzard III for 600 damage. Both of which are much smarter options for the damage/mp ratio.

With a water staff, the spell becomes much better. I usually did about 720-730 damage with it (760 or so on water day), consistently. The problem with that is that its almost never feasible to cast that kind of spell at lv70-71 (maybe it gets feasible later, but I'm not that high level yet). I could either cast a B3, a T3 and my Firaga/Blizzaga III burst, or I could cast 1 Water IV, get hate, mess up the skill chain, and probably miss the burst. I'd pick the two smaller spells, over the one large spell.

Other than that, the only other instance you would use Water IV would be if you're HNMing. The main use there would be on Fafnir/Nidhogg. There, I find that my IV line of spells gets *heavily* resisted (keep in mind I'm still only lv71). Therefore, I don't tend to cast Water IV as its a huge MP sink for not that much damage. Also, resists tend to be fairly random on HNM. Therefore, I'd rather pick a spell that does less damage, and save some MP. Why? Because if I get the random near-full-damage cast, it's much more usefull to my shell if I only do ~400 or so damage, rather than ~650 or so damage, seeing as if I suddenly do 650 damage I'll get hate and die. Then I'm out of comission for a long time...meaning I'm utterly useless to the shell. I wouldn't consider buying Water IV unless I already had a Water Staff.


For some reason, I have a much harder time landing IV's than I do landing III's, regardless of the mob, unless I'm using the appropriate staff.

Why are you giving me all these pointless information, much that is incorrect? The fact of the matter is it's a spell that you should learn the moment you level up to 70, because it's quite useful. Seriously, what you're saying makes no sense. I have Stone IV but why would I cast it when I could just cast Thunder III?! I guess I should just start casting Stone I instead of Thunder III! :rolleyes:

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by TheMidg
Why are you giving me all these pointless information, much that is incorrect? The fact of the matter is it's a spell that you should learn the moment you level up to 70, because it's quite useful. Seriously, what you're saying makes no sense. I have Stone IV but why would I cast it when I could just cast Thunder III?! I guess I should just start casting Stone I instead of Thunder III! :rolleyes:

Yes, your argument made perfect sense. It did in fact refute all of my points. Not only did you make valid arguements, you also provided valid reasons, that weren't just flippant bull shit remarks that were completely unrelated.


Hey, let's all play the "I'm too cool to admit I'm wrong game" and be just like Midg!


Seriously, if you want to try to point out how I'm wrong, how about you say something other than something so stupid as "I guess I should just start casting Stone I instead of Thunder III!", because that showed exactly how wrong I was. Maybe if you had a valid point, I could've said, hey, I was wrong. But no, you once again have nothing to add. Thanks though Midg.


My point stands. I know many a BLM without Water IV, and having Water IV, I don't feel like any better of a BLM. You'd be better off spending that gil on something better, like another staff, or the Igqirra (sp) gear, or anything else. Personally, if I didn't have the spell, I would spend time LFP in Beadux (sp) trying to get the thing to drop by killing Sapphire quads (which, coincidentally, you can kill during the 66-70 time, and they also conveniently drop Testimonies), and save my money for better things.


But hey, blindly saying that you need every spell the moment you can learn it is good advice too :rolleyes:


**EDIT** Just because I feel that what you said was totally out of line, I'll continue with something else you said.

Why WOULD you cast Stone IV when you can just cast thunder III? I'll answer it for you. You wouldn't. Since learning the spell, I have not cast it once. I could probably count the number of monsters that are weak to stone on one hand, and no matter what, Stone IV is simply much more inefficient than Thunder III is. Maybe we should all be like midg, and cast are highest numbered spells whenever we can, but I personally choose to cast the highest damaging spells with the best MP ratio that I can without making the paladin have to cover me every fight because I keep ripping hate. I bought Stone IV anyways, knowing I would almost never use it, simply because I don't feel right when I'm missing a spell. I also tend to have enough gil when I need it to afford whatever I need to buy. Other people don't have as much time as I do (and I don't have as much time as most people), so honestly, if you had to skip one spell, I could understand skipping Water IV. It's grossly over priced for a spell that is *rarely* castable. Honestly, I prefer to have priorities over what I buy and not just buy every new spell / peice of gear that is available the moment is available.

[Crowzukin]

I've used Water IV a lot. In fact, I use all of my spells. The only spells I don't have are Stonega II and Quake. Stonega II because you almost never do Stone MB until you fight Toramas and that's only if your skill chain setup allows for it, but by that time you have Stonega III. Quake because well... the ancient magics are basically optional as long as you have a couple to kill Maat with.

In my opinion, there are no completely worthless spells. If you don't have enough money to get the spells you need, then you should stop leveling and farm or something until you do. Just don't buy gil online.

[Sanim]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
I bought Stone IV anyways, knowing I would almost never use it, simply because I don't feel right when I'm missing a spell.

It happens the same to me :sweat:

Well, in my opinion there are 3 kind of spells: indispensable, useful and "the others".

Indispensable: Drain, Aspir, Escape, SLEEP line, Blizzard-Thunder-Wind-Fire lines, Bio I-II, Blind, Bind,.. and some more.. like elemental debuffs (<- must have!!)

Useful: Warp I-II, Tractor, and maybe 1 or 2 more. Here you could add -ga line of spells, not indispensable but quite useful under certain situations..

"The others": well, water and stone, aren't really useful.. But you REALLY should try to have them. A friend of mine, says that every blm should have all the spells (early or later, but try to have them). Spikes line is really stupid unless you farm a lot..

I completly agree with Atrapos.. there are times a inferior line spell can be better than an other superior..

Before starting you should know that BLM is an expensive and difficult job.. :zzz:

Good luck ;P

[TheMidg]

Atrapos, please stop casting Thunder III because Blizzard III is more efficient.

Originally posted by Crowzukin
I've used Water IV a lot. In fact, I use all of my spells. The only spells I don't have are Stonega II and Quake. Stonega II because you almost never do Stone MB until you fight Toramas and that's only if your skill chain setup allows for it, but by that time you have Stonega III. Quake because well... the ancient magics are basically optional as long as you have a couple to kill Maat with.

In my opinion, there are no completely worthless spells. If you don't have enough money to get the spells you need, then you should stop leveling and farm or something until you do. Just don't buy gil online.

Well put, in fact those are the only 2 spells I don't have as well.

[mdn]

atrapos has a point though.

by the time you're a high enough level to cast water iv, you'll be doing light and dark skillchains which will give you an option on what to cast on it for the burst, and if you want to burst a water spell, you already have waterga3 so you can burst that. i dont' know how much it costs on other servers, but i'd rather spend the 250k on another staff. yeah you can and should get it eventually, but it isn't necessary to have it the second you turn 70.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by TheMidg
Atrapos, please stop casting Thunder III because Blizzard III is more efficient.



Well put, in fact those are the only 2 spells I don't have as well.

Way to go Midg, you once again show that you bring nothing to the table.

Let's do simple math here:
Water IV, no water staff:
630 damage average (less so if you're in a 72+ party leveling on bones, manticores, or weapons)
Blizzard III, ice staff:
600 damage
Thunder III, lightning staff:
650 damage
Water IV, water staff:
750 damage

Let's see here. If I dont have a water staff, I could use a spell that costs more MP than Thunder III, and does less damage. There's a great idea. Or, we could do slightly more damage for more MP than damage difference by casting Water IV instead of Blizzard III. Another excellent choice. Way to defeat my arguement Midg.

Or, if I do have a Water Staff, I can cast a 750 damage spell that rips hate 9 times out of 10, meaning I make the whm waste mp healing me (no whm likes to leave you at low MP to drain HP back), or I mess up a skill chain, or any of numerous other options that could happen. Why would I ever want to cast this spell? Burst? I burst with Firaga III (fire staff) or Blizzaga III (ice staff) depending on whats being made...so once again, answer me when Water IV is the best spell to cast...

Buy it at lv75 or when you go to fight Fafnir, or once you have a water staff. lol

[Crowzukin]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Water IV, no water staff:
630 damage average (less so if you're in a 72+ party leveling on bones, manticores, or weapons) Manticores are weak to Water, nothing else.

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Blah blah blah more usless information, I think I'm always right!

MORE MP =
MORE DAMAGE

What is so hard to understand?

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Crowzukin
Manticores are weak to Water, nothing else.

They also take a good deal less damage per spell. Also, I have never found a monsters weaknesses to do anything but make it easy to land spells. Excluding slime, using the type of spells that the monster is weak to has never given me more damage.

Originally posted by the bumbling idiot
MORE MP =
MORE DAMAGE

What is so hard to understand?

. . . Was this even relevant? Why keep posting gibberish? Keep it up though, it certainly is amusing.

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
. . . Was this even relevant? Why keep posting gibberish? Keep it up though, it certainly is amusing.

What's more amusing is your logic. Let's take a look at it shall we: I don't have a Water Staff but I have a Thunder staff which will make Thunder III do more damage! I don't have a Water staff so Water IV is less effecient therefore making it a dumb spell! So your equipment decides wheter a spell is worthwile or not it seems. And for the record, Water IV does 675+ dmg on average.

And you want to know when it would be more useful? Let's see, the last PT i was in the Renkei was Distortion -> Darkness. Since the THF went second I did Blizzardga3 on Distortion followed by Water IV on Darkness since there was no time for Ga spell MB because the Ninja finished the renkei.

[Tikki]

More mp = more damage != efficiency per mp. If you don't know this, perhaps it is time to rethink your occupation. Doing the most damage per fight with the least amount of mp is a major part of this job.

If I have a spell that keeps getting resisted but a lesser spell always lands for full, I'm going to pick the lesser spell to be my mainstay. (without getting retarded and using say, Stone over Bliz II) By your logic, I should be using Stone III on everything since it's my 'biggest, baddest spell'. If anyone in this thread is going 'lalala, I'm right and you're not' it's you.

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by Tikki
More mp = more damage != efficiency per mp. If you don't know this, perhaps it is time to rethink your occupation. Doing the most damage per fight with the least amount of mp is a major part of this job.

If I have a spell that keeps getting resisted but a lesser spell always lands for full, I'm going to pick the lesser spell to be my mainstay. (without getting retarded and using say, Stone over Bliz II) By your logic, I should be using Stone III on everything since it's my 'biggest, baddest spell'. If anyone in this thread is going 'lalala, I'm right and you're not' it's you.

You took the words right out of my mouth :handsdown

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by TheMidg
You took the words right out of my mouth :handsdown

Hey midg, you were the one that said More MP = More Damage. Did you not? Let's take a look, shall we?

Originally posted by TheMidg
MORE MP =
MORE DAMAGE

What is so hard to understand?

That was you, right? You even made it like 900 feet tall so we all would notice it. Now...let's see who Tikki was talking about, k?

Originally posted by Tikki
More mp = more damage != efficiency per mp. If you don't know this, perhaps it is time to rethink your occupation. Doing the most damage per fight with the least amount of mp is a major part of this job.

Ok, by all accounts, she would be responding to your own statement of More MP = More damage. Right? Do you follow me so far Midg? Ok, now Tikki goes on to say:

Originally posted by Tikki
If I have a spell that keeps getting resisted but a lesser spell always lands for full, I'm going to pick the lesser spell to be my mainstay. (without getting retarded and using say, Stone over Bliz II) By your logic, I should be using Stone III on everything since it's my 'biggest, baddest spell'. If anyone in this thread is going 'lalala, I'm right and you're not' it's you.

Once again, this is in response to YOUR ARGUMENT Midg, no? And it would be affirming what I said, right? I mean seriously, is it this hard to follow? And then to top it all off, you say this:

Originally posted by TheMidg
You took the words right out of my mouth

Seriously...does anyone else find it amusing that he just owned himself? I don't even have to say anything else.

[TheMidg]

Not casting a spell that gets heavily resisted goes without saying.

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
Once again, this is in response to YOUR ARGUMENT Midg, no? And it would be affirming what I said, right? I mean seriously, is it this hard to follow? And then to top it all off, you say this:


Forgive me for forgetting to delete part of the quote :rolleyes:

[AtraposBLM]

Since Midg can only take into account the parts of posts that support his arguement and ignore everything else, I'm not going to bother responding to him anymore. I've argued with a brick wall for enough time.

[riceburner4540]

What's more amusing is your logic. Let's take a look at it shall we: I don't have a Water Staff but I have a Thunder staff which will make Thunder III do more damage! I don't have a Water staff so Water IV is less effecient therefore making it a dumb spell! So your equipment decides wheter a spell is worthwile or not it seems.

well, yeah...
think about it. without a water staff, my water IV did roughly 30-40 damage more than my thunder III but costs an additional 16 mp. that doesn't sound too bad, BUT without a staff to back it up, the resist rate goes way up, especially since i haven't xp'ed on anything that is weak to water since the 50s. i would MUCH rather cast thunder III and blizzard III for a little bit less damage, but with much better efficiency and less resists.

the last PT i was in the Renkei was Distortion -> Darkness. Since the THF went second I did Blizzardga3 on Distortion followed by Water IV on Darkness since there was no time for Ga spell MB because the Ninja finished the renkei.

it always seemed like waterga III casts faster than water IV...i dunno, never tested it. there are a couple problems with waterga III though, the insane mp cost and the AE effect...in this case, i agree, water IV *might* be useful but in such an SC/MB especially with a nin tank, i'd expect the nin to lose hate. the only time a nin+thf ever held hate was during battles in which i casted no nukes outside of the MB so unless you actually killed the mob with the 2nd MB, you're in a world of hurt. personally, i'd use blizzard III instead of water IV. faster cast and nearly 800 damage MBed.

edit: changed to past tense...heh

[Sanim]

LOL

Please continue :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

This is too good :thumbsup:

[Crowzukin]

You guys don't have Water staves? Well then of course Water IV is going to suck for you...

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by riceburner4540
it always seemed like waterga III casts faster than water IV...i dunno, never tested it. there are a couple problems with waterga III though, the insane mp cost and the AE effect...in this case, i agree, water IV *might* be useful but in such an SC/MB especially with a nin tank, i'd expect the nin to lose hate. the only time a nin+thf ever held hate was during battles in which i casted no nukes outside of the MB so unless you actually killed the mob with the 2nd MB, you're in a world of hurt. personally, i'd use blizzard III instead of water IV. faster cast and nearly 800 damage MBed.

Ga3 spells casting times are longer than Level 4 elemental spells.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Crowzukin
You guys don't have Water staves? Well then of course Water IV is going to suck for you...

Congratulations, you got my point about 50 posts later. However, if you have a water staff, this spell will rip hate 8 out of 10 times with a paladin, and 10 out of 10 times with a Ninja (If I get a non-resisted Water IV for ~700 damage, I get hate every time). So even with a water staff, at lv70, 71, and 72, this spell is simply too much damage outside of MB, and not enough damage in an MB. Also, the times that I've been able to double MB are few and far between - most parties simply aren't set up for it. And in that case, I choose to go Blizzaga III -> Blizzard III. Why? The extra damage from Water IV was either overkill, or too much hate for me to live through.

[Crowzukin]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
And in that case, I choose to go Blizzaga III -> Blizzard III. Why? The extra damage from Water IV was either overkill, or too much hate for me to live through.
Blizzaga III does way more damage than Water IV, or even Blizzard IV for that matter. I'm not understanding this.

[TheMidg]

Originally posted by Crowzukin
I'm not understanding this.

Don't try to.

[Crowzukin]

Originally posted by TheMidg
Don't try to.
OK.

G'nite :zzz:

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Crowzukin
Blizzaga III does way more damage than Water IV, or even Blizzard IV for that matter. I'm not understanding this.

Blizzaga III > Blizzard III instead of Blizzaga III > Water IV. Am I speaking spanish?

[Random]

Wtf kind of tanks are u pting with when 700 dmg rips it off them... theres seriously something wrong with that, i burst blizzaga III for 1100-1300 and tanks usually hold it.

[Coinspinner]

Are they getting tricked on during the SC? That'd be part of the answer... even if I was borderline before the SC I rarely pull the mob with my MB if Trick Attack is used on the tank.

If not, I'm farked.

*wishes Blink had Utsusemi Ni's cast time*

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Random
Wtf kind of tanks are u pting with when 700 dmg rips it off them... theres seriously something wrong with that, i burst blizzaga III for 1100-1300 and tanks usually hold it.

I mean 700 damage during the course of normal fighting, not burst. Burst for me tends to be very close to 1400 damage if on normal mobs, 1200 or so on magic resistant ones (weapons, manticore). For me, I start fights slow, and amp it up as we go. 700 damage is too much to start a fight, and too much before a burst. Meaning, I would have to time it perfectly every cast so that I timed the 700 exactly with a PLD's hate-gaining abilties, and risk screwing with the skillchain. Personally, the only time I risk gaining hate is if we're on Chain 4/5, depending which one has a skillchain set for it. And mainly, I've found that the majority of melee's I've partied with the past 10 levels or so are able to skillchain almost every battle, so I try to keep up damage, but using 700 damage before the burst is silly - the renkei+burst usually kills a mob from half dead, so you really don't need to nuke much before you kill the mob entirely.

[Thegod]

WASNT THIS THREAD ABOUT HOW THIS GUY CAN GET THE SPELLS HE NEEDS?

oops caps

just curious