would fish kill my melee damage?

[dirtyclown]

my warrior's only 10 right now, but i'm planning on taking it to ~37 once i get my axes and equipment ready. what i was wondering is, will fishkabobs kill my melee and hurt my tanking ability since i don't have the cure spam like paladins? or would mithkabobs help me out more? i plan to bring DD gears (what little options there are for 10-30) and tanking gear based on party preference.

[Lmnop]

definitely won't kill your tanking ability. You'll deal just as much damage as all the other warriors in those levels that aren't even using food since fish doesn't actually hurt your offense. I'd definitely use meat if there's someone else to be designated tank though.

[dirtyclown]

it lowers attack though, doesn't it? so my average damage would fluctuate a bit right? if that's all, then i'm going to have like 6 stacks made for my trip to hell. and thanks for the info by the way. much appreciated.

[Macht]

With WAR they are a quite flexible on which foods to use. Some of tricks I used that worked quite is I brought defensive and offensive gear along with the best weapon(s) I could get.

When some else was Main Tank and there another doing Sub Tank then I'd equip on DD gear and use Meat Mithkabobs, then buff with Berserk. If I got hate and isn't taken from me I'll knock Berserk off and slap on Defender and Defense gear (Macro!), because of Meat Mithkabob my damage now goes from exceeding the other Melees to matching or slightly less and my defense becomes quite good.

Then when I'm Main Tank which of the two I use become situational. If there are BLM and RNGs that just go nuts with their attacks then I'll use Defensive Gear along with Defender and Meat Mithkabob. My defense isn't as great as it can be but I'm able to hold hate better when you got those players going nuts.

In a party without that situation occuring and I'm Main Tank then I got Defensive Gear along with Defender and Fish Mithkabobs. In a party with a PLD that thought he was decked out he looked like a fool (He had decent gear but no food and no defender) because I took 1/3 - 1/2 the damage he was taking. He was taking anywere from 30-80 damage I took 8-40 damage (Of course once PLD/WAR reaches 50 that changes).

WARs to me are actually the best Tanks until lv. 50 provided that they are equipped correctly to tank. WAR/MNKs are the best tanks and WAR/NINs are kind of second best.

[Russta]

Originally posted by dirtyclown
it lowers attack though, doesn't it?

Technically no, but if you're eating Fish over Meat than you are theoretically lowering your attack.

[Darkedge]

Originally posted by Russta
Technically no, but if you're eating Fish over Meat than you are theoretically lowering your attack.

Hmm... what if youre in those newbie parties that don't use/can't afford food? Then I would assume Fish wouldn't hurt.

[dirtyclown]

i tried it tonight in a party. fish killed my melee damage, i went from hitting for around 25-36 to hitting for 0-10. attack dropped to 36ish, but my defense went to nearly 100. i decided to use meat afterward, just so i could manage hate with my axe. this was in a lvl 10 party against lizards in valkurm, by the way.

[lionx]

Would there be any reason to use Fish ever? I would think vs Pugils or something like that in Qufim or Valkurm...or would Defender be ok vs hard hitting mobs like those? What about beyond the beginning 30 lvls?

[dirtyclown]

Originally posted by lionx
Would there be any reason to use Fish ever? I would think vs Pugils or something like that in Qufim or Valkurm...or would Defender be ok vs hard hitting mobs like those? What about beyond the beginning 30 lvls?


i'm thinking maybe only paladins should use fish on a regular basis. i plan on making much use of defender once i get it, and i'm also going to keep eating meat kabobs. because hitting for 4 damage with a great axe is just embarassing. as my red mage i haven't seen too many warriors tanking at all, so i have no clue if they'd use fish or what. i would imagine so, since at that lvl your attack doesn't take such a hard hit from the fish.

[manote]

you don't need tank food before garlaige. i didn't use any (noob XD) but during garlaige tank food is nice because the bats like to hit for 100+ criticals....alot..that's also due to my extremely low elvaan agi so as a mithra you should be a little better off.

[greysenn]

You don't have to use tank food, but you should, even if it's something as minor as boiled crayfish (Which work almost as well as the kabobs at those levels.) It helps immensely with hate control if your gear is up to date.

[Lmnop]

Fish Mithkabob: Dex +1, Vit +2, Mnd -1, defense +25%

doesn't hurt my melee. And it's the only thing letting me tank w/out defender (which DOES kill my melee and thus hate). Plds usually strive for steamed crab over fish due to the bigger Vit bonus.

[Armando]

At least before 30, as long as you make full use of Boost and Provoke you should have hate to spare, so eating Fish Mithkabobs shouldn't hurt you one bit. Besides, there's plenty of WARs that get away with using sub-par weapons and no food, you should be able to tank well with Fish Mithkabobs. I prefer using a Great Axe with Meat Mithkabobs to maximize my damage and hate. I've never really had much trouble tanking up to 30, although this is probably suceptible to change post-30 and I'll have to make use of Defender on the tougher mobs, or Fish Mithkabobs if we'll be constantly pulling stuff that hits hard. To answer the question if the poster, if you don't have a sub you'll probably want to use Meat Mithkabob, because you miss out on a lot of hate by not having Boost. Once you get Boost, you'll have so much hate it doesn't really matter.

[Ungerpurr]

War/mnk can get away with fish, defender, etc., and still hold aggro more reliably than any pld up to at least level 37. War/nin on the other hand, needs meat to hold aggro. Don't underestimate the power of boost as an aggro-holding tool.

[kuroitsuru]

it might be possible for a war/mnk to hold hate as well or better than a pld up to 37, but do they? I have yet to see it happen. It's a lot less true lately it seems, but plds tended to know what they were doing and were therefore very good at hate management. I dunno what happened but on my last couple trips up to 30 I ran into some horrible plds who knew next to nothing about tanking.

I will agree and say war/mnk can be an awesome tank, if played correctly. However war/nin is not a good tank, they are horrible with hate, so the bit of mp you save for your mages with utsusemi is hardly worth it. With /mnk you have boost, focus, and counter attack to aid your hate management. with /nin you get utsusemi and some weaksauce elemental ninjutsu, and dual weild, but the only advantage of the first dual weild is gaining a few extra stats from a second weapon, there is no delay reduction yet.

I may have had one or two sucessful war/mnk tanks so far in my game career so I can't really say much about the limit of their abilities compared to pld, perhaps I will be able to test it for myself when I need to level my sub for pld again.

[Lmnop]

up til around the 40s, a war/mnk can (not always, just *can*) out tank a pld. It should be til level 37, but it usually takes them a little while to get used to using flash. In these levels, I sometimes wonder what would happen if the war tanked and the pld cure him. A war/mnk on fish does very well until plds get the hang of their jobs (if they ever do).

As for war/nin. I agree they're just Fake-Tanks. The hate tools just aren't there. Toss a bard into the picture, things change. This can happen as early as level 39 (battlefield elegy). With a bard, a war/nin just tanks better. But still can't hold hate as well as a pld or a war/mnk that magically got evade +1000. Meat does help this, but the damage a war/nin takes when he DOES get hit is just scarey when not on defense food. I don't like offensive tanking unless I have a good bard around but.... I prefer war/mnk.

[Darkedge]

As a War/Mnk, when invited to DD I'll try to steal hate as much as I can (w/o using provoke) just to keep PLD or NIN on their toes..granted I'm only level 24 right now, I've taken hate of PLDs as a subless MNK, cuz I care to spend a lot of gil on equipment.

Being the only tank in the party, I've noticed that TA THFs can take hate from me, if they TA before my second voke. Thats about it, or RNG if I chose not to boost/voke. 40-60 Damage from GAxe is nice.

I'll start leveling again after I kill my 2-3 dragon, so I'll learn more about War/Mnk tanking up to lvl 37.

[Cri]

Are you kidding me? War/nin are fake tanks? Umm...yeah you guys need to learn your stuff before you post. Emnimity+ gear. Viking axes...combat casters axes. Provoke defender war cry. I do 30 dmg to crawlers in cn with defender on(per hit..so thats 60 dmg with dual weild)(also count into effect that we have double attack which hits up to 4 times)... not only that this includes 200dmg regularly with avalanch axe. so please, dont assume that we cant tank. Not only that but you get awesome ws higher lvl that help a ton. Sorry if i sound rude, but thats just rediculous.

[Unholy Prince]

Sure war/nin is on decent tank, but war/mnk is better, heres why.

War/nin has very few hate keeping tools. Provoke, and DPS, isn't enough. Warcry maybe if your in a jam. When rngs start doing sidewinder every fight, thats not gonna hold. As a blm, even after second voke i pull hate off with a tier 3 spell, unless at the very end of the fight. Even after a SATA Dancing Edge. Perhaps i've been with some subpar war/nins, but the ones i've been with have had good gear, opened with Rampage every fight, used food etc, and still couldn't keep hate better then the war/mnks i've been with.

Also, when the war/nin runs out of shadows, your def and eva is so low your gonna get hit for A LOT. Unless you have a good blm or drk who know your playstyle(static party for example), but you don't get many of those in pickups. The MP you save with your few shadows is nullified by the massive amount of damage taken once the shadows are down, many times more is used. Of course this all changes at 74, but by then, its not as important.

As a blm, of course i'm biased to plds, but my 2nd choice in tank would be a war/mnk, and a lot of my friends at similar and higher lvls agree.

[Cri]

No no, i wasnt saying they were better than war/mnk. I was just saying that they arnt a FAKE tank. Im not sure, i havent been in a party in which the rangers/blms and other dd's have taken hate away from me. I still think they are very good at tanking. The mob misses the first 6 or more hits against it++, slap on defender. But w/e i dont want to argue. I think with the right person, they could be as good as any paladin or ninja out there. I just want some awknowledgement that war/nin are good and not just some stupid replacement for a pal.

[Lmnop]

fake-tank is what I call them, and yet I tank as war/nin.

What I mean to say is, they just work a lot differently than a normal tank. I need someone to stun, flash, elegy, etc. the mob if I wanna continue to NOT take 100 dmg/swing. War/mnk just takes a beating, uses defense food and uses defender if needed.

You wanna true fake-tank? invite a war/pld. Makes you wanna vomit.

[dirtyclown]

Originally posted by Ungerpurr
War/mnk can get away with fish, defender, etc., and still hold aggro more reliably than any pld up to at least level 37. War/nin on the other hand, needs meat to hold aggro. Don't underestimate the power of boost as an aggro-holding tool.


i use Boost whenever it's up. the night i lvled warrior a bunch we were getting "assisted" by a high lvl white mage. the mobs only turned to her when i let them. that convinces me completely that boost is an excellent hate tool.

[kuroitsuru]

Boost is your hate tool =P, you get it every 15 seconds which is awesome.

You also get the evasion up skill and the accuracy up skills from war and monk.

And when you get to AF level, think about how that +8 emnity from the body piece is gonna work with a boost every 15 seconds, I mean jeez.

/mnk makes war extremely accurate, enough to make the need for snipers non existant for tanking purposes.

What's great is if you use a great axe, you can supply your party with the break weaponskills, full break in particular, which I've heard helps out a lot through the course of a fight when used at the start.

That's all I can think of right now.

edit: I looked it up out of curiosity and war gets something like +15 emnity in full AF, I know youll be replacing a lot of it for better def gear, but I think most wars will use the pants and body to tank with, so theres +10 emnity right there, 3 for hands, and 1 for each head and feet.

I play pld, and so that +15 emnity makes me jealous, we get +8 total from our AF, I guess on the upside, we can wear our entire AF and its pretty much the best until 73.

[greysenn]

War/mnk can get away with fish, defender, etc., and still hold aggro more reliably than any pld up to at least level 37. War/nin on the other hand, needs meat to hold aggro. Don't underestimate the power of boost as an aggro-holding tool.

For war/mnk I think defender is generally trash for xp groups unless you've just got so much hate built up you can hold aggro reguardless. Boost hate is nice, but another large portion of your hate comes from straight up damage, and defender outright cripples it.