DRK/BLM = Underestimated?

[Baph]

Hey everyone, I'm a DRK/BLM and I have been reading most of the post on this forum, that "Warrior is the best subjob". But I have to disagree, I think subbing Black Mage is a wonderful way to deal extra damage onto the damage after that. I would swing, and as im waiting for my swing delay to go away, I'd cast a powerful spell, then like 2 seconds later I would swing causing more damage. I would just like to know why people have ridiculed subbing Black Mage for a Dark Knight. Thank you.

[Bluejoker1118]

Because your wasting MP on Elemental Magic...which DRK already have and missing out on Berserk and other important skills...please go lvl WAR and THF and dont Melee/Mage its useless in XP *hopes for no one to flame ><;* if im wrong any DRKs higher then me please correct me

[Jaggywaggy]

1.30-60 without /war you can't set up SATA for thief

2. This puts more focus on your mp and less on your tp. As any of the main melee damage dealers in a party you're expected to focus on pure melee damage and SCs.

Maybe the larger mana pool would be nice solo and vs HNMs, but I can't comment on the HNMs too much. No experience, just what I've read on these boards the past months since near release.

[Rogan]

you probly liek it cuz you can basically get away with doing anything around your lvl range, you'll soon see it's...quite terrible

[Lightfoot]

a DRK main focus is massive melee damage. being a DRK/BLM only gimps you becasue then you cant do either as well as somone else. you cant cast better then a BLM/WHM and your melee skills get the shaft too. the only reason DRK can cast spells is becasue we are the mirror oppisite of a paladin it should not be a main focus in our lives.


Let me ask you this... how many PLD/WHM do you see? very very few becasue its not what a paladin was ment to do. DRK/BLM is not what we are ment to do.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

at low lv everything can work
but once your lv +30 you will know if your SJ suck or not

i pted with drk/blm before his elem magic is caped (he have rdm lv 30)

anyway we was fighting crabs at qufim and his spells do very respected damage (damage was 3x his norml swing)

[Crowzukin]

Go read Awntawn's sub job guide

[Matkun]

Originally posted by Baph
I think subbing Black Mage is a wonderful way to deal extra damage onto the damage after that. I would swing, and as im waiting for my swing delay to go away, I'd cast a powerful spell, then like 2 seconds later I would swing causing more damage.

That's the problem with your idea though. It doesn't work that way.

Scythe 528 Delay swing time is 8.8 seconds. But spells pause that.

So you swing, deal 100 damage, 8.8 seconds left on delay
2 seconds after, you start casting a spell, 6.8 seconds left on delay
Weapon Delay pauses, spell takes 6 seconds to cast
Spell finishes casting deals 50 damage, 6.8 seconds left on delay
You wait for 6.8 seconds, then swing again for 100 damage.


Our elemental nukes don't deal enough damage to warrant pausing our melee damage. Basically, you can swing for 100 damage, or nuke and use up MP for less then that in the same time.

What's better, 100 damage, or 50 damage plus mp used?

[Langolier]

That's one of the things that irks me about this game; why do we get Elemental magic at all? It seems to be mostly useless. That's why I say we should get one or two magic attack bonuses, just enough so that casting elemental magic would actually be worth it.

[Matkun]

Only useful times is when the monster uses a serious def-up, and our melee damage goes in the hole, or in cases where we can't hit at all..

Also against elementals and Jelly types I've found it pretty useful.

[Mishimaro]

Don't know what to say to this, that hasn't been said already....

But hey if it works for you, and you like it then use it.... :thumbsup:

[tdh]

I've often wondered why we have Elemental Magic skill and spells, but at the same time, I use them at times. I almost always Magic Burst. Sometimes the damage is equal to what one of my single hits would be, others it's higher, and usually it's lower. (Fire MB for an average of 25dmg. lol)

But hell, why even give us MP if our 1st Dark spell is @ Lv.10. And even then, we'd get spells even less then PLD.

Drain - Lv.10
Bio - Lv.15
Aspir - Lv.20
Tractor - Lv.32 (Is this a Dark spell?)
Absorb-MN - Lv.35 (Can't remember the exact level)

So @ Lv.35 we'd have all that MP, and 5 spells. Being Elvaan I never cast Bio. I haven't used Tractor since the 2nd Jungle. And a 1 minute count down for Drain and Aspir? With only a certain number of mobs you can cast Aspir on, why even give DRK MP or spells at that point.

[Baph]

Ok, I know im going to get Blammed for this but when im in a PT when people need a black mage, AS THE MOB IS COMMING, I can cast Bio, Blind, and give myself Blaze spikes (now dont you think spikes would be good for a DRK?). Also Il throw in a spell cast here n there, and I hit average for a DRK even with my BLM sub, so I would just have to say I'm going to keep it, I have met Lvl 60's with BLM subjob and they say that they are doing Great, if not more damage than others. Just my opinion:thumbsup:

[Drynavere]

Baph.... Why must people like you share their opinions when they know it is only going to get the whole board worked up about how much you suxorz. -_-

Let's see now... your a taru DRK... a DRK/BLM at that... and you do 'average dmg compared to any other drk'... LIE!

You swing for damage, cast a spell for half that damage, and then swing again shortly after?... LIE!

'I've talked to high level 60+ drk/blm and they do great if not better damage'... LIE! There is no way on earth that a level 30 blizzard element spell, coming from a dark knight, whose elemental magic is weaker than my left ankle(im right footed), is going to do more damage that a DRK/THF of the same level, doing a SATA WS onto the mob....

Dryne hits the Lame Beetle for 1432 damage!
Magic Burst! Baph hits the Lame Beetle for 3 damage!

/hurray...

I was in a PT this morning, with some retarded sam/war, when I was leveling my THF subjob, which, thank god, is capped at 37 as a subjob now... And he just wouldn't leave the fact alone that I said drk/blm sucked... He was telling me he was a level 75 blm and 73 drk 'on his other account' (yeah fucking right loser...), and that he did better damage than any other job out there.... LIE!

Why must people fail to realize, in a game like this, an MMO, there are JOBS... that's why they are called that... JOBS... If a DRK was meant to hold its badass scythe sitting in the backlines throwing little dicky balls of fire at the mob... they woulda called it the I-look-cool-and-badass-but-am-just-meant-to-sit-here-with-my-600-attack-and-throw-fire-for-60-damage knight.... or something along that lines.

I will NEVER, NEVER EVER EVER invite a Drk/Blm into my party (mostly because I would BE the DRK in the party...), because hes gonna swing... cast some lame magic for 10 damage, and then swing again once more before the fight is over... USELESS!

You'll have a rough time as it is getting invites as a taru DRK, nevermind a drk/blm... (Good Bye.)

Edit: Why on earth would a DRK EEVVEERR need blaze spikes?... If your getting hit as a DRK, either your tank sucks, or your too uber... and I have a feeling in this case it won't be the latter.

[fuz]

He's not on your server, and he's not on my server. I don't really care waht he does since I'll never PT with him, nor will any PT that has half a brain. Let him sub blm and find out the hard way if he doesn't want to listen to the advice of the FAQ stickied above.

I sub blm on my drk personaly. Well, only when I quest and want to warp out. ;P

[tdh]

DRK/BLM is only good for doing Missions, quests, or just moving around town. Doing Rank 5 mission was a snap as a DRK/BLM. Get my magicite, then Warp outta that hole. Wait for the rest of the crew to get back to Jeuno so we could head off to another hell hole and do that one.

If I'm ever running around as DRK/BLM I make sure my /search information says what my subjob will be!

I did accidentally go to the Crawler's Nest as a DRK/BLM once, I immediately Warp'd out, changed subjob, and ran back.

I have a seen a lot of people use RDM sub, which has never made any sense to me, but they do it. I guess they think Enthunder on top of your damage makes a huge difference or something. If you want Enthunder, make sure you always party with a SMN. /sigh

There used to be 3 viable subjob choices for DRK. WAR, THF, SAM. After the TP nerf I don't see many DRK/SAMs any more. And as of late there's been a huge debate/argument about DRK/THF.

So make sure you have WAR and THF ready for party use.

[Lightfoot]

Why must people fail to realize, in a game like this, an MMO, there are JOBS... that's why they are called that... JOBS... If a DRK was meant to hold its badass scythe sitting in the backlines throwing little dicky balls of fire at the mob... they woulda called it the I-look-cool-and-badass-but-am-just-meant-to-sit-here-with-my-600-attack-and-throw-fire-for-60-damage knight.... or something along that lines.



LMAO, could not have said it better myself. if you want to look cool casting magic be a friggin mage and get it over with

[Aggememnon]

I'll give ya props for trying a new job combo but you are assuming too many things. 1, the game is very different pre-30..hell even pre-50. Things work under 30 that dont later, not that blm sub works but thats not my point.

2, as said earlier this game is very cookie cutter happy. Yea, there might be 1 or 2 job combos that work, but unless you want to gimp yourself hardcore, stay in those combos. This is why I hated paladin alot because there was ONE sub I could use or id be a gimp.

The fact is people invited drks (well if the people know wtf is going on) to do mad MELEE dmg , our absorb lines are like a bonus. You're damage is already lower because of Taru race and subbing blm will gimp your stats and make you do even less.

I'm on your server if you want to talk about it sometime I'd be happy to throw some advice your way.

[Crowzukin]

Here is what DRK/BLM is for: Warping back to your mog house so you can change your sub job.

[Mishimaro]

I didn't think this would go on for this long.... But it happens!

:cool:

[Baph]

Thank you everyone for your opinions, especially Aggememnon, for having the decency to give an actual opinion, other than "Im the best of the game, im the best it can get, anyone who trys anything else is.. a gimp"., aka Dyne or w/e. And anyway, I'm in a static party, and everyone says its ok that i subbed it, because we have some crazy subs there just to have fun, because in fact, its a game, its to have fun with, not to stress and tell other people that they can do that, but they will SUCK SO BAD THAT THEY SHOULD STOP PLAYING, or w/e. Thanks to everyone who posted :D

[Blood Red Poet]

DRK/BLM sounds interesting. I do suggest you being a Tarutaru, that you do switch to WAR sub when you hit 30. Your low STR can easily be made up by the that ability. EDIT: that ability being Berserk. It increases +25% or whatever attack.

Personally... someone who subs DRK/THF before 60 seems more gimped to me. DRK/BLM may work well as a Tarutaru and will be a lot better than DRK/THF(until 60). GL on your journey to be strong in Vanadiel. Don't let cocky asses who like to call you a noob because they are twice your level hold you down. Also learn not to kid yourself... if you know you could be stronger, be stronger.

People say RDM/DRK is gimped, I don't agree. People say DRK/THF pre-60 is not gimped, I don't agree. So not everyone has all the answers.

[Baph]

Thanks Blood_Red_Poet, youve been the most helpful and optimistic person ive heard :D Your right, I could be better, but hey, this is what I like doing, So im gonna stick with it for a while :D Thank you :)

[Moo]

Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
People say RDM/DRK is gimped, I don't agree. People say DRK/THF pre-60 is not gimped, I don't agree. So not everyone has all the answers.

/agree
RDM/DRK is uber for Chainspell + Stun.
Warrior subjob is so much better than Thief before 60. Sneak Attack once every few minutes is not nearly as good as double attack + berserk. It all changes once you hit 60 and get trick attack, though.



As for DRK/BLM.....

Why?

Let me tell you a little story about a party I had in Quicksands Caves at 52ish. Our MNK had to leave so the leader invited this taru DRK/BLM. So he gets there and we set up a skillchain for him and the thf. He only got to 100% tp one time the entire time because he kept nuking and had to sit between battles to get mp back. He instantly made our party from badass (PLD MNK THF BLM RDM BRD) to uber suckage. After about six battles, we finally convinced the leader to boot him. We waited around for like 10 minutes and a Taru DRK with a warrior sub popped up so we grabbed him and our party started owning again, even moreso than it did with the MNK in it. Both of the DRKs had almost identical equip, also.

Does /BLM have any spells that help you at all? All I can think of is Warp and those BLM only debuffs (which suck). All the elemental spells you get with your DRK job before you get them with a BLM sub.

Elemental Atk + will make you do like 10 more dmg per spell (if even that) woot!

Casting spells has a big disadvantage: you have to sit and /heal. TP gone = even less melee damage for you and less skillchains. And if you don't /heal and keep your TP, your BLM sub just went to waist. hmm... have I made my point clear yet?

Honestly, you might as well just sub nothing. The difference would be about 50mp, and that's it.



What is your reason behind subbing BLM if you know it's gimped? (it is if you haven't figured it out). Being lazy is a really bad excuse IMO. So is trying to be different. Why gimp yourself?

Honestly, you're screwing over yourself and the poor souls that have agreed to make a set party with you. Don't be surprised when they boot you for someone with a decent subjob.

[Rones]

And I thought whms were harsh on those who subbed dumb stuff. :sweat:

[Langolier]

This has really made me wonder what the point of our Elemental spells is, they seem to be worthless to me. I only keep it capped for fun. I really do a think Magic Attack Up 1 or 2 would be nice. Just something to make those spells worth casting. That or ehance our DRK spells.

[Blood Red Poet]

Does /BLM have any spells that help you at all? All I can think of is Warp and those BLM only debuffs (which suck). All the elemental spells you get with your DRK job before you get them with a BLM sub.

Elemental Atk + will make you do like 10 more dmg per spell (if even that) woot!

:/ you seem to not understand what those spells do. Elemental Debuffs are the strongest DoTs in the game and can stack up to three. If you no BLM in the party(which IS possible, but rare) this could be useful.

Okay this how I would play a DRK/BLM. (not sure at what level do, so just bare with me)

THF comes back with a a mob. I use stun and Elemental Seal + *highest level spell I can use* to steal aggro. THF does SA + TA on PLD(or other tank). I quickly use Aspir. The battle goes on as I use all my abilities to take berserk's place. I use Aspir asap again.

Next pull or the pull after... ect, now having no Elemental Seal I instead use Drain(still damage from the pulls before), maybe followed by a nuking spell(which has a good chance to be resisted tho). Also, I now would spam Aspir. If we plan to do a full rest after the current battle, I would nuke a bit more.

I would serve as an Elemental Debuffer if their was no BLM. I would only nuke once into a battle not counting the first one. Spamming Aspir would be vital, and juices would help.

I would rest only when someone goes AFK. The only difference in my equipment of a DRK/WAR vs a DRK/BLM would maybe the additions of juices. Levels 41-60(?) I would be granted with Refresh.

Disadventages: Do little less damage in battle... in that case never invite a MNK without Kotes and no can do small debuffs seconds into the battle. The latter one is barely worth mentioning.

And with that, I just out did every single post in this thread. Please don't give me "STFU noob" attitude, because unlike someone new to the game, I won't take it.

[fuz]

Dark, even a taru doesn't have the MP to sustain this kind of casting. Aspir gets resisted a lot, and if that doesn't make things bad, the fact that many enemies have no MP to drain will.

Spell - MP - Recast

Drain - 21 - 60
Aspir - 10 - 60
Stun - 25 - 45

Absorbs - 33 - 60
Elemental Enfeebs - 25

Stone - 9
Water - 13
Aero - 18
Fire - 24
Blizzard - 30
Thunder - 37

Stone II - 43
Water II - 51
Aero II - 59
Fire II - 68

Tell me where you can get enough MP to cast just 1 of each in a battle, because even at lvl 60, I can't do it past the 2nd fight--even with refresh. Aspir just doesn't have a short enough cooldown to spam, gets resisted a lot on ITs, and if you keep casting all the time you'll keep delaying your attacks.

My normal routine is provoke (if there is a trick attacker that's not me), absorb, hit, absorb, aspir, hit... aspir... WS, MB... hit... mob dies. Stun only when necessary. This already drains half my MP and aspir at best can recover 50% of it since it gets resisted, or doesn't absorb much. Some mobs don't even have MP so I can only cast one absorb if I still want to have MP for the last chain.

You also can not feasibly land a nuke for more damage than a regular hit unless it's on a skillchain, and if you end up resting and draining MP, it's not going to happen. At later levels you need to use a lvl 2 spell to do anything worthwhile and it drains a huge chunk of MP that would be better spent on an absorb to help you hit. I just MB lvl 1 spells on occasion to skill up. :P Lucky if it does 50 damage.

Juice is nowhere near enough to sustain the constant casting of enffeebs/debuffs as I've had the experience of seeing drk/whm in action along with a brd. Still have to rest... Heck, we don't have enough int bonuses from equips and whatnot to get the debuffs to stick and work the way they are supposed to since we load up on acc+ items instead.

And without berserk, your regular hits suck--terribly. With meat kabobs and berserk on I hit for about double the damage compared to a non-buffed attack. Berserk drops and suddenly my 100-130 a swing is down to 70-100. Unbuffed? I barely average 70. No amount of casting is going to make up for 3 minutes of this kind of damage, and this isn't including the extra damage from double attack, the faster TP gain and stronger WS.

There is just no point to blm sub in a exp PT in my eyes.

[Blood Red Poet]

I agree to /WAR is better, but /BLM can be done if /THF can.

Don't forget I mentioned buying drinks. If RNG and DRG(with batteries) can make themselves more powerful with items why not DRKs?

[Joshumaru]

Originally posted by Baph
And anyway, I'm in a static party, and everyone says its ok that i subbed it, because we have some crazy subs there just to have fun, because in fact, its a game, its to have fun with, not to stress and tell other people that they can do that, but they will SUCK SO BAD THAT THEY SHOULD STOP PLAYING, or w/e.

Normally, I'd agree with this. But this is a game where you rely on five other competent people to do well. You can be a drk/blm for fun sure, but all you'll be is a nuicance to the party you're in. When you're 'fun' gets in the way of the success of five other people who are doing their best to play this game as well as they can it's not a good thing.
If you're in a static party fine, whatever, but just know you're slowing yourself and everyone else you party with down.

[Regulat0r]

I AM THE UBER TARU MELEE THAT DOES HUGE DAMAGE WITH MY BLM SUB AND CAN EASILY TURN THE TIDES OF BATTLE WITH MY WEAK ELEMENTAL SPELLS.


RAWR!

[Moo]

Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
:/ you seem to not understand what those spells do. Elemental Debuffs are the strongest DoTs in the game and can stack up to three. If you no BLM in the party(which IS possible, but rare) this could be useful.

Okay this how I would play a DRK/BLM. (not sure at what level do, so just bare with me)

THF comes back with a a mob. I use stun and Elemental Seal + *highest level spell I can use* to steal aggro. THF does SA + TA on PLD(or other tank). I quickly use Aspir. The battle goes on as I use all my abilities to take berserk's place. I use Aspir asap again.

Next pull or the pull after... ect, now having no Elemental Seal I instead use Drain(still damage from the pulls before), maybe followed by a nuking spell(which has a good chance to be resisted tho). Also, I now would spam Aspir. If we plan to do a full rest after the current battle, I would nuke a bit more.

I would serve as an Elemental Debuffer if their was no BLM. I would only nuke once into a battle not counting the first one. Spamming Aspir would be vital, and juices would help.

I would rest only when someone goes AFK. The only difference in my equipment of a DRK/WAR vs a DRK/BLM would maybe the additions of juices. Levels 41-60(?) I would be granted with Refresh.

Disadventages: Do little less damage in battle... in that case never invite a MNK without Kotes and no can do small debuffs seconds into the battle. The latter one is barely worth mentioning.

And with that, I just out did every single post in this thread. Please don't give me "STFU noob" attitude, because unlike someone new to the game, I won't take it.

Holy crap, this is retarded. I can't believe you even try to argue.

Other than elemental debuffs (which a whm/blm or rdm/blm can do better than you) and elemental seal (woot, once every 8 hours! /sarcasm) can be done by a DRK with a Warrior sub. Difference is, they will be doing twice the damage that the BLM sub will.

Fuz already disproved your "OMG I CAN CAST ASPIR + DRAIN AND SPAM NUKES ALL DAY" theory. Not to mention, most exp mobs don't even have MP for you to use Aspir on.

And comparing youself to DRK/THF pre 60, is also gimp. You basically saying, well if this gimp can make his way to 60, then I'll be able to gimp my way all the way to 60 too!

BTW, your english when you are talking about MNKs was so confusing that I couldn't make out what you were saying. I'll assume that you were talking about how much DRK > MNK. You can level all the way from 30-75 on bones. I leveled my BLM (level 67 now) in a set party that was NIN MNK MNK BLM RDM BRD all on bones in many places that most exp parties don't even touch (Sea Serpent Grotto, Eldieme, deep Garlaige, Gustave etc...). Let me tell you that MNKs damage on bones cannot be matched by hardly anyone. You'd have to have a tricked out ranger shooting silver bullets on a fly to compete to the dmg a decent MNK can do to bones. I'd much rather have a MNK right now than a DRK. DRK/BLM doesn't even come close.

DRK/BLM it utter shit. period.


















one more thing:

STFU noob

[Regulat0r]

STFU noob

Im reporting you because STFU is not a word.

[Lmnop]

...Do little less damage in battle... in that case never invite a MNK without Kotes....

i.e the difference in damage is like monks with kote versus monks without them.

and I don't think a dark should ever be a trick buddy, subbing war for voke is a moot point. But I digress

[Joshumaru]

Drk have more VIT than war, just less HP.
Would you expect a war to be a trick buddy? If so then why not a drk?

And I just noticed...
"Also, I now would spam Aspir"
wow...you can't spam something that has a 1 minute recharge...using a move once a minute isn't spamming...spamming is using the same move over and over, not using a move once the 1 minute recharge time is up

[Hisdon]

have fun with your static, you sound like a DRK I know in a static who's gonna use WAR sub and Scythe only for life cause their static says they can. To me that's the stupidest and greediest thing one could say. Why? Cause I work my ass off to be better than these players and they get statics, wow I love this game :thumbsup:

also Bloodredpoet...have you actually tried those things? I've seen them, and tried them. I'll tell you know, THF sub completely gimps all dmg you'll do per hit period. It makes your hits go from strong to avarage automatically. THF sub is used only for 1 thing: ending skillchains. I don't care about my per hit dmg as long as I get to hack half the mob's HP off in 1 swing and get no hate for it d(^^)b However I hate the fact that I lose those attack bonuses, Berserk, Double Swing, and yes /WAR just plain hits harder than /THF...don't tell me wrong cause I've tested both pre and post 60...(you can't hack half a mob's HP off till 65, and 60 is the earliest THF sub really gets useful, pre 60 it DOES GIMP YOU)

/BLM is retarded, I'm sorry if this offends you but it's true. All the reasons have already been said so I'll say no more, but +65 you'll almost always be using /THF (unless your in a mage pt, such as:PLD/DRK/BLM/BLM/RDM/BRD, works really well and mages love it, in these pts you sub WAR to make up for the lack of a 2nd melee...btw, DRK's are almost always the other melee in these pts ^^)

[Blood Red Poet]

I think when I say spam I mean asap, of course you can't 'spam' Aspir @_@. I agree /WAR is better, personally would prefer a /WAR(below 60 at least, then /THF is good as well). What I was saying that if someone can do decently as a DRK/THF, it is not impossible as a DRK/BLM.

My MNK statement: Sorry if it was unclear, too tired to check if I missed up in grammer or anything. The attack bonus you losing from /WAR isn't huge and can be comparable to a MNK without Kotes at level 34(not much higher). Now I am not saying DRKs should be without it, once again I do think DRK/WAR is the better job combo. I have never tried it, and that is all in theory. But until I see some screenshots or believable summeries outside "IT is TEH suck!", then I will believe it.

Oh yeah, grow up. :rolleyes:

[Ungerpurr]

If you're going to be a taru drk/<mage>, at least be a drk/whm so that your MP is useful. I'd much rather have the level 25 drk/whm using cure 2 and healing for 75 than using fire and nuking for 35, for the same amount of MP. It's STILL gimp, but at least it serves a purpose.

With all due respect, it doesn't appear, by your sig, BRP, that you have played a melee job past the extreme low levels. Your experience as a melee is rather limited, and it is far better to withhold giving advice when you don't have experience in the matter than to postulate about it.

A black mage sub does not add anything, AT ALL, to the primary purpose of a dark knight, which is to do melee damage. Spell damage from a dark knight is not meant to be good, and indeed, it isn't. The only reason they even have elemental magic at all is because they're supposed to be the anti-paladin, where paladins get divine, healing, and enhancing magic, and dark knights get dark, elemental, and enfeebling magic. The only time elemental magic is ever worth it, as a drk, is during magic burst.

Look at a rdm if you want to see a barely-capable nuker. Granted, they have a lower elemental skill than drk (partially offset by their ability to use ice staff without gimping their job, unlike drk), but even with far superior elemental magic spells, they still are nearly worthless at nuking once you get into the 50s+. At my level, for instance, on an impaction or fragmentation...rdm bursts thunder 2 for ~300 damage (at best), blm bursts thundaga 2 for ~730 damage. Drk could burst thunder for ~120 damage (maybe...).

As for thf sub...while not as offensively oriented as war sub, it does at least add to a drk's melee ability, by allowing them to make the best out of their weak pre-60 weaponskills. For example, drk can be a *passable* distortion closer with Slice, using SA + LR + SE.

[Zafron]

BRPs entire strategy is based on his experience xping in the 50s, where just about every mob you xp off of can be aspired. That changes in a hurry.

Toromas
Sand Cockatrices
Processionaires
Darters
Skimmers
Eldar Goobbues
Tormentors
Steelshells
bones

From 60-70. These are probably the most popular xp mobs. Of all these mobs only steelshells can be aspired(and 3/4 times they will resist even with AF helm). Thus you are completely dependendant on RDM and juice. Often times you will be the last refresh in a 5 player refresh cycle. It is very difficult to keep the 5th player in the refresh cycle in a constant state of refresh. If you are burning through your mp casting elemental spells on top of those vital absorbs either you will run out of mp quickly and RDM wont refresh you, or RDM might keep you refreshed at the expense of keeping the mob debuffed/dispelled and you hasted(a very very bad thing). And before someone trys to bring it up, BRD will do virtually nothing for your mp generation. You will have minuet and madrigal on you 90% of the time assuming the BRD isnt a fool and you are in a good group with little downtime.

All this to cast crappy elemental spells that a BLM could cast 30 levels ago for more dmg. lv33 BLM can burst Water II on Distortion SC for 200dmg on IT mob. A lv67 DRK with capped elemental can burst Water II on Darkness SC for 120dmg on an IT mob. How much dmg do you really think BLM sub could add? Enough to sacrafice the ability to close SCs for anywhere from 1500-3000 WS+SC dmg(my personal best is just under 2700) without gaining a single shred of hate?

Everything Hisdon said is absolutely true. Although i dissagree about the mage party. I just xped in that exact settup as drk/thf and with great success by doing SATA on the BRD. we were doing swift>cross>stone IV*2 for 3-4.5k total SC dmg, and in 6 hours BRD only died once when he didnt stoneskin. Its definately a high risk high reward setup, but its fun as hell if your brd is crazy and will agree to it.

Bottom line is drk/blm is a horrid job combo for anything other than travelling. I would do a dmg parse comparison with my static of drk/blm vs drk/thf to illustrate my point if it wasnt so blatantly obvious. Hell even if i wanted to my friends would just /slap me.

[Regulat0r]

Hey guys check out my new Drk/Blm!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/Regulat0r/tarublm.bmp

I <3 him.

[Blues Hawk]

using DRK/BLM for anything other than warp is completely worthlses

DRK is a melee job with the main magical focus being Stun and Absorb spells with an occasional MB if you have the MP to spare.


It may not be terrible but there's no way you can use your job to the full potential as DRK/WAR, DRK/THF, or DRK/SAM

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Zafron


Everything Hisdon said is absolutely true. Although i dissagree about the mage party. I just xped in that exact settup as drk/thf and with great success by doing SATA on the BRD. we were doing swift>cross>stone IV*2 for 3-4.5k total SC dmg, and in 6 hours BRD only died once when he didnt stoneskin. Its definately a high risk high reward setup, but its fun as hell if your brd is crazy and will agree to it.



I'd of subbed THF and fuidama'd onto the BRD, but she was JP and didn't like that idea :P

[Karinya]

I love all the level 60+ drks telling the level 30 that he should sub war for double attack, or thf for trick attack.

Morons. Those abilities have level requirements, he *wouldn't get them* for another 20+ levels even if he subbed those jobs.

What subjobs are appropriate for a given job VARIES WITH LEVEL. And sometimes race too. Awntawn's guide was written by an elvaan, whose piss poor int is nicely complemented by their crappy mp. Of course he's going to consider DRK magic useless. Have any of you even seen a skilled taru drk? They use magic all the time. (So do skilled hume and mithra drks, just not quite as much because they don't have taru MP.) DRK isn't a pure melee job - if you wanted to turn on autoattack and fall asleep until SC time, you should have chosen mnk.

It is likely that at 50+ he will want to change sub to war, and at 65+ change again to thf. (Or have several subs available depending on party composition - although many players are too lazy to maintain multiple subs.) But that says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what subs are good around level 30.

All that being said - there is so much spell overlap between drk main and blm sub that it still might not be that good, although it does give you more mp (a lot more since you're taru). The Shock series is quite strong (though often underestimated by people who don't know how they work), if you can land them, but you should generally have a BLM who will be casting those anyway if he's not an idiot. (DRK/BLM in general may be more useful if you can't get a BLM. But most parties without a BLM are bad anyway.) Manage your MP and TP carefully so you can rest without losing TP (because you just used it) and without causing downtime. Higher INT means your Aspir will get more MP and be resisted less, but it still isn't 100% successful.

I'd advise you to try /war and /thf too, before you decide what is better. Pay attention to how much damage you deal with regular hits with each sub (don't forget berserk with /war, although you probably shouldn't stack it with LR or Souleater because you will get too much hate), with WS (sneak slice is pretty strong especially as a Distortion finisher - again, beware of stacking too many attack ups), and with magic; and to how often your absorbs are resisted, once you get them. (/BLM will help your resist rate, especially with Elemental Seal, but if you give up a lot of melee damage it may not be worth it. On the other hand Absorb-VIT or -AGI boosts *everyone's* damage/accuracy...)

Once you know the benefits of different subs - for your race, at your level, with your equipment and party setups - make your own decision on what sub is more effective. If it bothers you to go against the majority, remember that the majority levels in Garlaige at 31, trains 385737 bats to the zone and then shouts for raises. :rolleyes:

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Karinya
(/BLM will help your resist rate, especially with Elemental Seal, but if you give up a lot of melee damage it may not be worth it. On the other hand Absorb-VIT or -AGI boosts *everyone's* damage/accuracy...)



dark magic is dependant on skill alone nothing else effects it :/ Elemental Seal has a 15 minute cool down so even if it did work it'd be once every 1-2 chains.

About the moron thing, I think you understand we arn't telling him to sub /WAR or /THF at 30 for trick attack and double attack, but they are other bonuses that those subs would give...and yes, he's GIMPING HIMSELF SEVEARLY by subbing BLM.

[fuz]

Originally posted by Karinya
Awntawn's guide was written by an elvaan, whose piss poor int is nicely complemented by their crappy mp.[/B]

He's hume, not elvaan. :p

[Moo]

Originally posted by Regulat0r
Hey guys check out my new Drk/Blm!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/Regulat0r/tarublm.bmp

I <3 him.

:handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown :handsdown

:thumbsup:

[Armando]

I'm not touching this subject, because I think I would just be repeating most of you have said. I believe DRK/BLM sucks for the most part. Maybe below 20...but then again, why not just sub MNK 'til 20 and have Boost? And then at 20 you can use the alternate sub job of RNG for the +10 Accuracy up til 30. Then continue with /WAR or /THF.

Basically what I wanted to point out is that you get Elemental Magic because you're the Arcana Killers. Not that it makes much of a difference in an EXP party except for a somewhat decent MB at lower levels, but that's part of what you are. Besides, you're the mirror opposites of PLD as someone said. They get the main WHM spells, you get the main BLM spells.

[Zafron]

Originally posted by Karinya
I love all the level 60+ drks telling the level 30 that he should sub war for double attack, or thf for trick attack.

Morons. Those abilities have level requirements, he *wouldn't get them* for another 20+ levels even if he subbed those jobs.


I just had to call attention to this statement. After reading it i went back and looked at all the posts by the level 60+ DRKs, and didnt see a single one telling the original poster what to sub or what not to sub.

If you look at his original post, he is not asking what to sub, he is asking why DRK/BLM is so ridiculed. And people with experience are answering that question precisely. His level has nothing to do with his question or our answers. And fyi your response had nothing to do with what he was asking.

Next time you feel like making an attempt at being condecending take it someplace else please.

[Lmnop]

Haven't been here in a while but.....




Drk have more VIT than war, just less HP.
Would you expect a war to be a trick buddy? If so then why not a drk?

don't Whms have the same vit as a war? =P Anyway.... once upon a time in CN, I was a warrior and the dark knight was my trick buddy...... warriors aren't plds. It makes it harder for drks to use SE, LR, ... Good ol' berserk. Well, this isn't the topic so I won't go into depth. It's hard for drks to be good friends with thieves. If I'm gonna have a drk in my party, a thief seems to make hate *harder* to hold instead of easier.

[Draconis]

I will go ahead and voice my opinion here.


Drk/Blm like many has said, is okay Pre 30th Level.


At level 30 is when you truly hit the damage dealer status of being a Dark Knight.


Let me give an example. At level 50 I had an attack total of 263.

Gear for that level is as follows:

Barbarian Scythe
Spike Necklace
Two Beetle Earrings +1
Valkyrie's Mask
Mythril Breastplate
Royal Knight Mufflers (( +3 acc gloves if name is wrong))
Mythril Cuisses
Mythril Leggings
Raptor Mantle
Life Belt
Sniper Rings x 2

Farmed for the sniper rings when I hit level 42. Gods am I glad I did. Prices have freaking skyrocketed on those things.


So, basically that gives me an ACC bonus of +23 from gear, not counting the -5 from the Scythe. Counting the Scythe, it's a total Acc bonus of 18.

Now then, to give an appropriate example of what occurs with /War subjob, I'll go ahead and try and actually explain the difference between Blm sub and War sub Post 30.

Unlike others who just post " This SUCKS!!! " And then don't even go into real detail as to WHY it sucks. They are speaking the truth of it, but it's helpful at times if people actually go into a detailed explanation of WHY.


Now then, Let's say I eat a healthy dose of Mithran Crack. (( Meat Mithkabob. )) Suddenly my Attack rating skyrockets to over 300. Now, any Drk/Blm can do this and still add damage via Mithran Crack.

However....we now add Berserk to the mix. Berserk lasts a total of 3 Minutes and generally is very helpful. It stays up a good long while. Suddenly My attack jumps even higher.

Add Last Resort to the Mix? Sure! Why not! Let's assume we're doing a Skillchain with the buffs on temp.

Suddenly with Meat Mithkabob+Berserk+Last Resort my attack skyrockets to around 430.

Now memory may be a little dull, I've been sick recently and It's been a while since I've fought IT's in an Exp pt because I am currently in another one of my Farm till I drop from exhaustion phases.

But generally speaking what I would see on Average against IT's is sometimes roughly a damage parameter of around 130-146ish Roughly per hit. Mind you I could be wrong. As I said, it's been a while. A month straight of farming does that to a person.

Now then, that's normal hit per hit for me. Now, add in all the buffs. Suddenly my damage per hit roughly gets in the area of around 172-198ish, sometimes exceeding 200 per hit. Add in the fact that as a Mithra Drk, I can crit the mob More often then others. Usually for around 250ish to 300 roughly.

Vorpal Scythe however...ugh...well, I won't go there. Let's just say I wish it was alot better.


/War sub DRASTICALLY increases your total damage output hit per hit by a great amount. Now /Blm can down a Mithkabob to help assist with their damage output, but the greatest problem with /Blm is that those who sub it suffer a " Mass Casting " Syndrome that I've noticed.

Really, your elemental spells are there solely for the purpose of Magic Bursting in my opinion. As a Taru Drk you have a ton of Mp, which post 40 you will learn comes in VERY handy for throwing out absorbs like nobody's business. Many a day has there been when I wish I had a Taru's MP pool for throwing around spells and still not worrying about asking the Rdm for Refresh. You also do not run into alot of Mobs you can Aspir either, and even if you do, the resistance against Aspir is pretty high. It won't give you much mp back. Maybe an absorb and a poison if your lucky. Enfeebles I would'nt worry about. They are there mostly for pulling or Sleeping/Binding an add or a Link.

Also I want to add, with your elemental spell line of Mark I style spells, you won't nuke for much, even with your Taru Int. You won't be able to compare to a level 50ish Blm in my LS for example, with over 105 INT on him compared to yours. Int is not a strong point for a Drk. To give an example, your spells will be resisted alot, and if you are lucky, do around 30 dmg to an IT mob. When you do a MB, it's far more due to the Skillchain. Level II spells even get resisted alot, and for the MP cost, I only suggest using them for a Magic Burst period. As otherwise they are a waist of time and less powerful then a normal scythe hit.




The big problem is post 30 if you sub /Blm you lose alot of your true damage potential as a Dark Knight, and this will hurt you in the longrun. I am happy to see you have a static party and am glad you have a set up like that. It will make your experience more enjoyable. but I hope the reasoning and examples I have given here help.



Oh, btw, on casting and weapon delay. Two things. I noticed others posted some thoughts on this, I cannot help but feel that information is incorrect.

One, Casting spells does not interrupt the flow of the Scythe hit hardly at all. You have roughly 8 seconds between each scythe strike, depending on weapon delay. In tests usually a Kung Fu Rutubaga (( Mandy )) can get in 2 monk style hits before your next scythe hit lands.

Now, strike with a hit, then cast a spell with a timer less then 8 seconds. You will notice the mandy only makes 2 attacks before your next scythe strike, even though you cast a spell. The casting MIGHT offset the delay by a small amount, but not by much. Casting spells does not really offset weapon delay unless the timer is longer then 8 seconds or roughly closer to that amount of time on the spell.

Now, on the other hand, I HAVE seen constant casting completley FUBAR TP Generation for some damn reason, as I have noticed at times after casting Absorbs, I miss more. >.<

Dunno why, but it's what I have noticed. Keep that in mind, as Drk's do become vital in the skillchain later on in levels.

Hope this Helps,


Draconis

[Regulat0r]

To long, didnt read, so I skimmed. A few words caught my eye though like "This sucks", "Mithra Crack", and "FUBAR". But its a good post none the less :thumbsup: .


I think most of us at the boards agree with this:

Pre lvl 30, do whatever you want because no one really cares.
After lvl 30, lay down the crack pipe, take a shower, put on your work cloths, and go do your job.

[Regulat0r]

To long, didnt read, so I skimmed. A few words caught my eye though like "This sucks", "Mithra Crack", and "FUBAR". This makes your post excellent :thumbsup:

I think most of us at the boards agree with this:

Pre lvl 30, do whatever you want because no one really cares.
After lvl 30, lay down the crack pipe, take a shower, put on your work cloths, and go do your job.