WAR - Tank or Damage dealer?

[Fandyien]

Hello, my name is Fandyien and I am a level 15 WAR. I am planning on going PLD - I use a sword / shield at all times, fo the DEF bonus, the occassional shield blocks, and the skill for PLD.

However, I have a question. I was partying in Valkurm Dunes today with a group that had three WARs. Me and two others, with both other WARs wielding Greatswords and me with a sword / shield.

The whole time we were Exping, the WARs would switch off voke, whenver someone got into the red and our WHM couldn't keep up. I had 5 Higher DEF then the rest, and I usually eat some food. I try to optimize myself for tanking. However, they were yelling at me throughout. I was told several times that WARs are "Damage Dealers" and that I shouldn't use that equipment setup. Eventually, I was kicked from the party because I didn't have any two handed weapons and my skill with those weapons was 0.

Am I wrong here? Should I use 2 handed weapons, even if I don't want to and am shooting for PLD?

My sword skill is 46, and my Greatsword skill is 0.

Also, will I get yelled at in Quifim after I finish in Valkurm?

Thanks for your time.

[elephants]

Well using axes is also a great idea for warrior. The only two weapons I'd say use as warrior are Great Axe and Axe, regardless of whether you're going PLD or not. I would recommend you change to axe, so you can keep your shield skill high, but also have the optimum one handed weapon for warrior.

As for the title, warrior do both. It's as simple as that. It's why they get Defender and Berserk.

[RedWing19]

Whenever I see a War have a sword and shield I always give a /tell to them giving them advice about how much better a axe or great axe is. When I took War to 30, I used a great axe the whole time and well I'm a pld now with no troubles. So yes, i suggest using at least a axe and shield when you are war because it is better then sword.

[ibroyles]

Just remember that when starting a new class you will be equipping your new weapon from the start anyways, so skilling up weapons isn't really a problem. I.E. with PLD you will have sword equipped, and will be skilling it up easily without any previous skills in it, so why not just use axe & gaxe with warrior until then? Weapons are easy to skill up anyways. Shield is another matter though, and you probably will benefit from increasing your shield skill with each class as you play it, because it is definately harder to skill up than weapons.

[Jaggywaggy]

If you're going pld I think you should stick to 1handed axe or greatsword. Capping sword from a starting lvl of 0 as you lvl pld will be extermely easy, don't worry about that. Getting shield skill now however helps.

If you were to go hardcore warrior I'd say greataxe and axe, both...But you said you're going pld, so I said greatsword because alot of PLDs farm with greatswords, and xp parties might get pissed if you use one in a xp party depending on how hard the mob is.

Edit: For typos

[Turlisius]

It's nice to think in long term. When I was War'ing I used a polearm and it gave me a relaxing headstart for when I got Dragoon. If you're still lvl 15 War though, especially in Valkurm, you'll prolly end up being a tank most of the time anyway. War can be nice in a pty later later, but if you're going Paladin then that wont matter to you. Those guys that kicked you out of the party just because they thought Wars were 'damage dealers' are retarded. Sure, you might have to settle for a War being a damage dealer when you're in such a crowded hell like the dunes, but if there was no designated tank then you were assuming the right thing with your shield and sword. Most wars use axes to help with dmg since real dmg dealers are so damn rare out there, but you were doing the right thing.

[Nanila]

Valkurm is one of the worst zones to level in since all the idiots flock there. So take what they say with a grain of salt.

If you're going to be a PLD, don't worry about using sword as your main weapon on warrior. You're going to be using sword for the rest of your game play as PLD, so that's more then enough time for it to always be maxxed out.

When I play my warrior, I only use axes since the skill is higher with them and I do a lot more damage with axes then swords. When I was in my 30's I was doing 300ish damage with just one handed axes (WS + Skillchain damage), which is a lot more then sword can even dream to do.

Though someone suggested to raise Greatsword since you're going PLD, as a PLD I say DON'T raise it. If you have it raised, you'll only be tempted to use it in a exp party and everyone will suffer from it. Great Sword WS's really are horriable until you're in the 60's, so it's not worth skilling up at your level. Only two WS's worth using in GS for a PLD, Sickle moon and Spinning slash (level 63 and 69 respectivly).

I would just suggest to use Axe and Sheild, since you'll be leveling warrior again some time (unless you're going all the way to level 37). That and Axes really outshine swords, and most people seem to look down on warriors who use swords (since they're the best with axes, you're basicly just gimping yourself). This also gets your sheild skill up, which is one of the hardest skills in the game to get up. You'll never have sheild and parry maxxed unless you've played for years, so it's best to start early, since it goes up sooooo slow.

[Fandyien]

Much thanks to all of you for answering kindly and intelligently.

Now I'm level 18 War/ 9 Mnk, and people don't seem to have troubles with my using a sword / shield, since I am generally the tank.

However, I can forsee problems in Quifim....any thoughts on that?

[Sheng]

Swords are not weapons of choice for a Warrior. Warrior excels in Axe and Greataxe.

You chose not to follow the advise or the people of this forum telling you to switch to axes.

My advice is the same: forget sword until you're PLD.

[Darkedge]

I had a war damage dealer in a pervious party, they pulled hate off the PLD when they used their axes but not when they used their swords. Warrior's dont get owned if they pull hate tho.

I would use Axe/Shield, and GAxe against high defense monsters maybe. Don't use sword. Don't. :)

[Macht]

Yeah, just like everyone here already states a WAR is a Tank and a Damage Dealer. Which they excel in depends on the choice of sub and your equipment.

Defensive wise a WAR gets many of the same equipment or equipment that gives same defense as a PLD. If you sub MNK though you are assuming more of a tank role in which MNK provides many extras to accomplish that (Guard, Counter, and the HP Boost trait).

Offensive wise a WAR can get many items that raises their attack a lot at the cost of their defense. If you sub a class like NIN to it then you are taking a damage dealing position. Wielding two axes along with the lv. 25 trait "Double Attack" you'll start to deal out large amounts of damage. Before you even reach lv. 25 you'll be able to get hate by just attacking, I've drawn hate off of a PLD member in parties I've had by simply just attacking.

Eventually when you get to lv. 25 with dual wield and double attack a WAR/NINs damage (with good weapons, gear) when tallied does seem quite close to what a RNG with good weapons and gear would do. At lv. 25 fighting the mandragoras in Kazham it didn't take long if I stood there flat out hitting it with all my buffs for the mandragora to turn to me and not once look at another player simply because of the amount of damage being done to it.

Of course drawing hate easily is basically the downfall to all DD classing, they can draw hate easily but because they have less defense surviving becomes harder to do.

[Fandyien]

Well, I decided to take the general advice and find myself an axe. However, I can't decide what Axe to purchase, and where to skillup my Axe. (Currently, it is 0. :sweat: )

I would skillup G. Axe, but, frankly, I can't afford a G. Axe. I only have 180 Gil, and I need to buy both Mnk and War gear.

[Moonlancer]

buy a nice, cheap axe, and then farm crystals while you lvl it up, shouldnt take to long to skill up axe to a decent lvl, and get a couple stacks of crystals at the same time, you can then buy a gAxe if you want to go that route, or keep using axe/shield and upgrade to a new axe.

edit: farm outside your starting city, at your lvl you most likely wont run into anything too hard to handle

[Armando]

Ok, this is my humble opinion, as a 30 WAR/MNK aiming for PLD:

WAR is probably the most versatile melee job. They can equip almost all weapons and armor, and have a wide gammut of skill, allowing them to be top-notch tanks or DDs, sometimes a bit of both, depending on what equipment and sub job you use. Because of the job's versatility, I'd encourage any WAR to level as many (good) sub jobs as possible and have as many weapons as he/she can, so you'll be able to adapt to any situation.

Addressing the weapons issue, I personally carry a sword, great sword, axe, great axe, polearm, and hand-to-hand weapons, in addition to +1 longbows, a boomerang, and I'm adding crossbow to my repertoir of weapons because of their debuffing bolts, at all times, and try to keep them all at decent skill levels. Granted, I am fairly wealthy and I AM going much further than what would be required/expected of the average Warrior, but it still helps. I won't say it's necessary to have all these weapons; far from it, although it helps. However, I WILL state, and this I am sure of, that there are no better weapons for Warriors than axes and great axes. They're much stronger than swords and great swords just with base stats, Warriors have higher skill with them (therefore higher accuracy and attack ratings,) and their WS are quite potent. The Great Axe's Break WS are quite potent debuffs - Shield Break, the first GAxe WS, lowers the enemy's defense quite a bit, and that not only increases your damage output, but also that of the other melees. Sturmwind (level 23) is extremely powerful and very good for skillchains. As for Axes, Raging Axe (10 skill, level 3) is also quite potent, especially for a one-handed WS. Smash Axe (40 skill, level 14) adds stun, which is perfect for stopping Bomb Tosses, and it's probably the earliest Stun WS you can get, along with Shoulder Tackle (hand-to-hand.) You won't be getting Flat Blade (Sword stun WS) until level 26.

Wether you use Axes or Great Axes is entirely up to you. Each has its pros and cons. If you use a Great Axe while tanking, and you Provoke every 30 seconds, especially if you eat Meat Mithkabobs and Boost every 15 seconds as well, the mob'll be cemented on you. At 20 WAR/MNK you get Counter, which'll grant you more free hits with your Great Axe, and at 25 you get Double Attack, giving you a higher damage output than DRKs 'til 30 even if you don't whip out Berserk (at that point all the DDs get Sneak Attack, so while you might still be doing more damage over time, the DDs will outdamage you in terms of skillchain damage.) Also, I've noticed that while you're using two-handed weapons your parrying skill goes up a lot more, that's something you might want to consider, it'd definetely benefit your Paladin. Axes, on the other hand, allow you to equip a shield, and thus allows you to avoid attacks more often, especially with /THF's Evasion Bonus, and if you're lucky/rich, with an Emperor Hairpin (which gives +10 Evasion.) Using a one-handed Axe will also help you level up your skill stat, which as stated before, goes up fairly slowly. Of course, it also depends on the skillchain; sometimes using a certain weapon will allow for a much deadlier skillchain, which if used in conjunction with Magic Bursts, might ultimately speed up your killing and exp rate, regardless of wether or not the weapon is a bit weaker. I would even encourage using other weapons if and only if the situation arose in which you could perform a significantly powerful skillchain with it (Power Slash -> Sneak Attack + Fast Blade Distortion Skillchain comes to mind.)

Don't worry about your PLD's weapon skills. Your sword will always be capped because that's basically the only thing you'll be using in the standard exp party. As for Great Sword and Polearm, those can easily be levelled on your level 30 WAR. Just beat up weak to EP monsters until your skill starts catching up, or put together your own skill-up party and kill Ts to VTs. The latter would be preferrable once your skills are fairly high but not quite capped yet, as that last dozen or so levels are quite difficult to obtain solo. For levelling a weapon from level 0, start by beating up the lowbie mobs around your home nation, and just progressively move up to higher level monsters. As your skill goes higher and your skill-up starts to slow down, move on to something bigger. Soloing EP-DC with a level 0 weapon isn't recommended, as your accuracy will be awful and that'll ultimately work against you. It's much safer and reliable to fight monsters that are close to your skill level (for example if your skill is 30, you should fight monsters around level 13-14, which are a level or two higher than what you'd be when your weapon skill cap is 30.)

In conclusion, it's my belief that unless you have very good reason not to (like skillchains, for example,) you should ALWAYS use an Axe and/or Great Axe in your parties. Anything other than that is generally just gimping your WAR.

[Nameless]

Why did you have to type in red? Why?

[Armando]

Force of habit. I've always typed in red ^^;; But hey, if it bothers you so much...*edits, removes color tags*

[Taurius]

Very simple reason why all starting out WARs should be using axe and gaxe. You'll be lvling on crabs up to lvl 25. And guess what, crabs are weak to axe and gaxe. You'll outdamage all melees(I don't put RNG as melee class >,,< so shush you RNGs) using axe and gaxe.
As for tanking purpose, the damage you recieve at lower lvls aren't that high, so sacrificing 3-5 points of defence to use gaxe isn't going to be much of a factor. And raising shield skills, not really a big deal since it's one of those skills that just take forever to lvl up. You'll have plenty of time to lvl it up as a PLD.

[Armando]

Taurius also has another good point, generally monsters won't be hitting you so hard unless you're tanking beastmen or pugils, you should live with a great axe. I'd only use an axe-and-shield for skillchain purposes or for those evil, deadly monsters (not that 5 defense will do much to save me; it's more about the ability to block attacks altogether if you ask me.)

Also, I wasn't aware that crabs are weak to axes and great axes. I thought swords, great swords, scythes, axes, and great axes were neutral to armored monsters, or something along those lines. If that's the case, then you have one more reason to use axes. If the crab's weakness to axes follows the same pattern as the other weaknesses and I'm not mistaken, you'd do 150% damage on crabs with axes.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Armando
Force of habit. I've always typed in red ^^;; But hey, if it bothers you so much...*edits, removes color tags*

Thanks, it was hurting my eyes.

[Sheng]

Originally posted by Armando
The Great Axe's Break WS are quite potent debuffs - Shield Break, the first GAxe WS, lowers the enemy's defense quite a bit, and that not only increases your damage output, but also that of the other melees.

Well, actually, Shield Break lowers the monster's EVASION, not defense.

Armor Break lowers the monster's DEFENSE.

Weapon Break lowers the monster's ATTACK.

Full Break lowers all those stats at the same time.

[Armando]

Haha, sorry, it was late night, not thinking straight. Yeah, it's Evasion. I don't even have Armor Break yet XD.

[Radamvice]

To put it real simply, regardless of your future goals it is best to use axes as warrior, either 1 handed or 2 handed. If you havent, find easy prey monsters and catch your skill up till it stops then pt with that weapon, will catch up eventually depending on your level.

The better warriors i have met happened to have several weapons skilled up to their given level, and while axes are ideal, you might end up getting pt invites for the ability to form a given renkei with an alternate weapon you happen to have with you skilled up. The higher you level the less efficient the non axe weapons become in a warriors hands, but nonetheless ><;

In a stronger pt setup i had once we were killing so fast but had one melee not part of renkei, i pulled out great sword as a pld, and sped up the fights slightly more by starting a second distortion chain. While as a pld great sword is generally a bad move as mentioned above, in some rare cases its effective, and most definately fun ^^

[Wrecgar]

Hmm, I never knew people spoke so highly of axes/great axes for a warrior. I have never meet one person that I've partied with tell me that I should use a axe weapon.

Right now I use a Great Sword for my lvl 30 WAR. It's always capped and when I lvl up it only takes a few fights for it to be capped again. I've been trying to lvl my sword skill up a bit since the last time I used it was back at like lvl 14. I'm also lvling my scyth skill up for DRK so I'll be capped on it for a while while I'm soloing the first 11 lvles or so.

I may give a axe a try. That way if I get asked to tank I can use axe instead of my GS. Probably wont do great axe since I really prefer GS to any other weapon anyways... lol

Plus lvling axe help for my BST job.

[Armando]

There's probably 3 reasons why so little WARs know that axes are better weapons:

1) Everyone loves swords. Everyone considers swords to be cool. And if they're not using a sword then they're using whatever weapon they're going to use for their advanced job. You start with a sword, and it's only natural for newbies that don't know any better to just keep buying newer swords. Also, swords can be used by a wide variety of classes.

2) The "Warriors are tanks, we take damage, not deal it" mentallity. Wrong. Warriors are indeed tank, but they hold hate through damage. It's your responsibility as a WAR tank to have a respectable damage output in order to hold hate. If you wan't to "take damage and not deal it," go PLD.

3) Ignorance is contageous. With so many WARs using everything but axes, low-level FFXI community (at least the NA community, I really shouldn't generalize and throw in JP as well, not because I think they're superior but because I simply don't interact with them) has grown accustomed to mediocre WARs using the wrong weapons (no offense to anyone who is a good player but doesn't use axes, but the harsh reality is that there's a LOT of WARs that don't kno what they're doing.) Because of that, many players often reach the mid-levels without ever having been corrected.

I used swords and great swords up to level 22. I'd heard so much about axes, and after seeing the stats on Neckchopper, I just had to get one. Shortly after I bought an axe. I saw a BIG difference in damage, with both weapons. Granted, Neckchopper is extremely powerful, but Plantbane and Centurion's Axe didn't disappoint me either. I'm a WAR shooting for PLD, but I still use axes. They're just too good not to use.

[Nanila]

I think the biggest reason why is because you start the game with a sword. When I started playing, I knew nothing about which weapon was better and all of that stuff. All I knew was that I had a sword and was doing pretty well with it. Soon I started getting better swords and got up to 30+ skill with sword. Then I found a website that said warriors should use axes because they do more damage and are better for them.

Well I bought the best axe to try it out and since I had 0 skill in it, I sucked with it (I didn't know that skill meant Atk, damage, and Acc at that time), so I just tossed it and went back to sword. I used sword all the way to 20 before I switched to Thf... and *still* used swords with my thf (well I tried daggers but you know how low level daggers suck).

If I started the game with a Axe, I would've been using that instead of a Sword.