I just started a new character as an Elvaan....

[Dnias]

Should I level both great axe AND great sword as a warrior? Or just wait till I get DRK to level greatsword and scythe?

[Arli]

Well, as a DRK you're going to be using both Scythe and Great Sword extensively throughout your career, so using your WAR job to level either or them won't be a huge benefit.

Once you get Great Sword's Power Slash, you'll be using that pretty extensively till you get Vorpal Scythe. Reason being is that they open the Distortion renkei. A good DRK will keep them both capped - every level.

If your path is going to be WAR to 30, then DRK - I suggest you just stick to a sword and shield and dabble in Great Axe and Axe. The reason being is that as a WAR, you're going to be expected to be a tank till about level 30. Since its a new character, you don't have open access to the NIN support job and Utsemi: Ichi at the get go, so the dual Axe-wielding Blink WAR is out of the question.

Now before my fellow DRKs jump down my throat and tell you you MUST level Gsword to lessen the pain of keeping it capped, let me tell you that if you intend to take the job to the very end and fight some of the hard HNMs, you're not going to be using ANY of the 2H weapons - you're going to be using Sword for Spirit's Within. So, by sticking to the traditional sword and shield routine as a WAR you a) get to be a non-gimp tank and b) level a weapon you'll be using alot in the end-game without having to endure the PAINFUL process of leveling it up from scratch.

The best advice I can give you is to concentrate on sword/axe & shield when you're in a tank role as a WAR, and try to keep Great Axe leveled in PTs where your just a damager and not primary tank. When you swap to DRK, you'll have decent skill in 3 important weapons that a DRK won't have to worry about while they're concentrating on Scythe and Greatsword. It is MUCH better to have several decently leveled weapons for different situations than have one weapon maxed out that can prove ineffective in several occurances.

Also, our 2HR works best when used with a fast *accurate* weapon - namely a 1-handed sword or axe, so it pays off to keep them both up to par. If you haven't guessed by now - I keep a scythe, Great Sword, Sword, Axe and Great Axe with me at all times. Its a bitch to keep them all capped, but its worth it due to our excellent skills (B to A+) in melee weapons.

DRKs can get the multi-hit Axe WS Rampage at level 56, and its a wonderful tide me over till Guillotine for farming. Lets not forget Shield and Armor Break on Great Axe can really turn the tide in a battle if used early on.

[Kailo]

Arli has a great point, and her advice should by no means be shoved aside, but I have a bit of info to add myself:

I used G Sword and G Axe as a WAR when I was lvling to 30, and I had no problems keeping them both capped. Because I had G Sword capped for my WAR, it made actually obtaining the DRK flag a lot easier (WAR is the only class other than PLD and DRK that can equip the Chaosbringer for the quest). Also I won't have to bother capping G Sword with DRK until I ding 29. I get to sit back with my Scythe and finally have a chance to fight battles with a capped weapon, instead of constantly switching (thus breaking SCs sometimes, and generally causing havoc if I truly want to keep G Sword and Scythe capped as a DRK) to skill a different weapon.

What I also did was lvl 1h Sword along with Dagger with my THF, so I still have the option of using it with my 2 Hour and I can also gain Spirits Within without starting from scratch. IMHO lvling 1h Axe for DRK isn't worth it. I can get by with having G Sword, Scythe, and 1h Sword skills lvled, and I also get the luxury of having G Axe lvled as well. DRKs will generally have to lvl THF at some point anyway (unless a static PT has a setup with you as a DRK/SAM or DRK/WAR) so lvling Sword during that time seems like a good idea.

This is just what I did, and it works for me. Luckily a big bunch of PLDs were lvling their way up at the same time I was lvling WAR, so I didn't have to tank with a 2h weapon. You're situation could be different, and you'll have to change accordingly. However, this method seemed to work the best for me.

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by Arli


Now before my fellow DRKs jump down my throat and tell you you MUST level Gsword to lessen the pain of keeping it capped, let me tell you that if you intend to take the job to the very end and fight some of the hard HNMs, you're not going to be using ANY of the 2H weapons - you're going to be using Sword for Spirit's Within. So, by sticking to the traditional sword and shield routine as a WAR you a) get to be a non-gimp tank and b) level a weapon you'll be using alot in the end-game without having to endure the PAINFUL process of leveling it up from scratch.



I don't know where you've learned how to fight the hard HNMs, but a DRK is there for sleeping potion + opo opo neclace.

Our job is the level 3 renkei so the 12 BLM's we bring can burst it to hell.

Your 600 damage spirits within means nothing to a mob with 100000+ hps.

[Arli]

Funny, last I checked, the only *real* role a DRK had in an HNM hunt was to Stun, but to each his own.

My comments are based on how i've observed DRKs used in the Japanese HNM LSs on my server and is also being practiced by other 70+ DRKs, and is apparently quite effective, since it allows them to contribute consistent damage (because melee damage on an HNM is laughable) outside of their primary role of being a Stunner.

Though I don't seem to follow your logic about renkei on an HNM. Since DRKs usually close renkei and most HNMs are rediculously resistant to physical attacks - your nerfing your end-renkei damage anyway. Sure you set up your mages for a burst, but I think your mages would be more effective maintaining a consistent nuke cycle than waiting on the melee to renkei.

I know full well that the key to defeating an HNM is magic damage, but somehow I fail to see how charging TP with sleep potion and opo-opo necklace to set up a Burst every few minutes is significantly better than letting the mages do their own thing and letting the DRKs toss in 600-700 damage every 40 seconds or so, or even allowing them to melee to build their TP. As it stands, why on earth would you want to sleep your Stunners when they play such a vital role in keeping the mob from using their abilites?

BTW, good idea Dark^Impact about leveling sword with your THF, I had forgotten that THF have a fairly decent rating in 1H sword.

[MAK]

don't know where you've learned how to fight the hard HNMs, but a DRK is there for sleeping potion + opo opo neclace.

You are there for stun and DoT... with that kind of strat it would take you 2 hours to kill even roc..

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by MAK
You are there for stun and DoT... with that kind of strat it would take you 2 hours to kill even roc..

Roc is not a HNM.

We are talking about Gods and Fafnir etc.....

use Opo-opo , chug 4 potions and go.

Rinse and repeat.

You are correct, I do agree with you that the only real role we have against those gods is to Stun.

However, the 12 BLMs would much rather prefer a Light renkei than a 650DMG spirits within.

Your strategy would take much longer that ours.

[MAK]

No, Roc is still a HNM he is just a weaker one. I still dont think you should let a DRK sleep himself for TP, DRK is still mainly there for DoT and Stun. The only way i would do that is if you where lower then 70 and were missing like crazy. Even if you do that you should sub in and out other players so the person sleeping isnt in the allaince...

[Aldo]

DRK/WAR hits Fafnir quite decently with no sniper rings on *grin*

[Brothershadow]

Arliman I like your style and cant wait to obtain Spirits when offered. I love blasting off "Blood Weapon" while two fisted
with either swords or clubs. Ive been pain stakingly trying to keep
all 4 of my weapons capped (only using NIN sub for soloing).
You guys think I should skip on the one-handed axe and stick
with my 4 already? Been also considering picking my Bow back up
on the rumors of the "lightning bow.

[Arli]

Well, if the DRKs in the Alliance are able to consistently gain TP by virtue of hitting the mob, then sure - a massive level 3 renkei would be wonderful.

Of course, since you mention opo-opo necklace as the primary means of TP gain, I'm assuming that the DRKs aren't hitting worth crap. I'm gonna have to say that sleeping your stunners in the middle of the battle, even if its for TP gain, is still an awfully calculated risk. If the HNM is charging a special, I doubt the DRKs will be able to get Stun out even if your WHM is fast on the draw with Curaga to wake them up. I'm not criticizing the efficacy of it, because if you've used it and it works, more power to you. I just don't agree that it's a *safe* tactic to use given the unpredictable nature of some of these HNMs.

[FattMusiek]

I don't mean to be rude at all, but Arli, you seem pretty sure of yourself. What HNMs have you fought at 60? A DRK isn't as useless as they're made out to be against HNMs. Their primary role isn't to Stun and use Spirit's Within. As DRK/THF, I would rather close a skillchain so BLMs can burst off of it. Against Tulia gods, I would open with a 300% Spirits Within, though. Against most other HNMs, chances are you aren't going to have a fully charged TP meter for Spirits Within. Against weaker HNMs such as Behemoth, Serket, Roc, and Simurgh, using a one-handed sword is pretty stupid. The Opo-Opo necklace trick is good against the harder HNMs, but it's expensive and unncessary for most others.

And before you ask, yes, I have Spirits Within. Stun is great though.

[Aldo]

DRK is not that useful if you compare it to other jobs, lets say THF/BLM/PLD are on the #1 list for harder fights.

[Arli]

Maxim,

Sorry if I sound matter-of-fact, its just my nature ;p
I can't base any of this from personal experience, because i'm nowhere near high enough level to contribute to an HNM or God hunt. I'm just passing on the information I had gotten from some of the higher level DRKs I know, both Japanese and NA about their roles in such hunts. I'm not saying the strategies voiced in this thread are dead wrong - because I have no personal experience to counter it, i'm just debating the rationale based on what functional knowledge I have of the job and the WS available to us. I do appreciate seeing so many different strategies for DRK in what I had thought to be a classically static role in an HNM hunt - the stun whore.

What I'm trying to figure out is the logic behind some of the strategies outlined for a DRKs in such hunts. Stun makes sense - because of the devastating attacks HNMs deliver. Believe me, I didn't understand initially why Spirit's Within was used against an HNM in the first place when I was told about it being used by DRKs in a God hunt. But, the fact that its damage that ignores a mobs defense made sense that it would be consistent, reliable damage. However, it seems to me that using the sword against an HNM would seem to build more TP for the mob than allow you to build TP to contribute damage to the enemy. Though how effective are DRKs at landing regular blows on HNMs with Scythe and Great Sword? I was under the impression that the damage from our classic weapons wasn't remotely effective and that our hit-rates against HNMs were poor, making TP gain for level 3 renkei a problem. Clarification is obviously needed.

Strangely enough, i've seen a few japanese DRKs tango with Behemoth with DRK/NIN weilding 1-handed Axes... I have no explaination for that one.

I've played DRK enough to know that even with accuracy out the ass, we still miss alot more than we'd like, so the Opo-opo method of TP gain makes sense - but only for the opening blows. Perhaps I misunderstood Mikasa in that the Opo-opo trick is only used for opening the fight - as it sounded like it was used throughout? With the importance of Stun in such a fight, I can't fathom using that technique continuously in melee. If people manage to do it several times within the fight and it doesn't endanger the alliance, then more power to you - It just doesn't sound safe to me.

Now that we've completely derailed this topic, what's the most effective alliance setup you guys have used when taking on the Tu'Lia gods - and what strategies do you use ( all-out blitz, kite, MP war of attrition etc.) I keep hearing "The more BLM the better", but is it really JUST a BLM convention, or are other jobs as desireable? Aldo mentions THF as being desirable, but what makes them more desirable than a DRK/THF if we can Sneak/Trick also? I still have a ways to go, but i'd be interested in hearing what works well and what doesnt.:sweat:

[Aldo]

THF for the treasurehunter and THF knife to improve drop. Although it would be nice to sub THF for every fight, some you have to sub WAR because you can't pincer the monster.

[Awntawn]

for HNM, drk is in essense just a stun whore ;p blms suck at stunning cuz they got too many other things to care about, and often are stuck mid-cast when the need arises. drk has nothing to do but stun, so unless they suck, they don't mess up very often XD