Tp :(

[Wings of Icarus]

Any way around the slow TP building issues with DRK/THF? I can sub /sam and be ready for renkei every battle -_-, warrior's double attack helps TP also...

As a DRK, it makes me feel gimp when the other melee is ready for a skillchain and I'm @ like 86 tp -_- by the time I get to 100+, i hear "Save" cause the mob is at half life or less.... it really hurts the xp/hr by this issue...

Is it something that I'm going to have to deal with. no way around it ? :(

[Arli]

No way that i've seen. The only saving grace I have is playing a Mithra. The accuracy gear helps alot too for avoiding those no-TP whiffs. I wouldn't be too worried about the TP issue.

As it stands now, i'm in a static PT with a THF ( you think YOU have problems with renkei ;p) so outside of Vorpal Scythe > Dancing Edge > Distortion we really haven't done anything else. Now that I recently learned Guillotine, I find that i'm not participating in renkei as much. Battle usually consists of me tricking buffed Guillotine onto the tank, using sneak attack when it comes up. The THF just busts his sneaked Dancing Edge from the other side of the tank while I keep tricking Guillo. I can't say that I like the process, but it works fairly well and I'm contributing more damage than with Vorpal Scythe.


Any higher level DRKs have some input? I'm horrified at how we're supposed to function when we get our 220+ WSs.

[FattMusiek]

Unfortunately, a THF sub gains TP slower than SAM and WAR, no Meditate and Double Attack. My advice to you is to join parties with a BRD or where you're the highest level. If you're kind of low for the area, you're going to miss a lot. That's pretty much the only advice there is to give - don't miss.

:-/

[Awntawn]

Originally posted by Arli
As it stands now, i'm in a static PT with a THF ( you think YOU have problems with renkei ;p) so outside of Vorpal Scythe > Dancing Edge > Distortion we really haven't done anything else. Now that I recently learned Guillotine, I find that i'm not participating in renkei as much. Battle usually consists of me tricking buffed Guillotine onto the tank, using sneak attack when it comes up. The THF just busts his sneaked Dancing Edge from the other side of the tank while I keep tricking Guillo. I can't say that I like the process, but it works fairly well and I'm contributing more damage than with Vorpal Scythe.

ouch. IMO subbing war and continuing with vorpal > dancing is still the optimal way to go. Guillo is strong, yes, but it doesn't make up for the damage that the THF isn't doing by not being able to sneak-trick. In fact even if you do use guillo, you're probably better off subbing war so the THF can sneak trick WS off the tank to put the target back afterwards, even if there's not renkei.

Bad for the DRK's self-esteem, yes, but more effective for PT. Simply put, all I can say is that DRK shouldn't set PT with THF :sweat: Your whole party will start thinking DRK sucks too if you continue like that >.>

[Arli]

Yeah I know, it sucks horribly, but I don't have much choice without replacing the THF. I really would like to be able to use Guillotine in PT, but its a death-wish without Trick Attack. Vorpal has gotten so incredibly boring (not to mention its haphazard damage) that I feel pretty useless in PT.

I'm really concerned about keeping WAR sub post 60 because its getting harder and harder for my static PT PLD to keep hate, even WITH SATA Dancing Edge due to the unholy proc rate I seem to be getting with Double Attack.

Surely, there's GOT to be a better way outside of ditching the PT THF?

[FattMusiek]

Originally posted by Arli
I really would like to be able to use Guillotine in PT, but its a death-wish without Trick Attack.

Meh, I don't agree. Since it's a 4 hit weaponskill, only one of those four hits are transferred onto the tank. This is why I think WAR should be subbed until you get Cross Reaper.

[Arli]

Ah, that makes sense. I was under the assumption that unlike Sneak Attack (which only gives you a crit on the first blow) Trick Attack transferred hate of the entire WS. Thanks for clearing that up ^^;

Back to WAR SJ and Vorpal Scythe for another 5 levels ;_;

[Gumbercules]

I'm in a static with a THF too. Basically I plan to do Vorpal to DE until I can do Swift Blade > Cross Reaper and sub THF with that.

Then if we need to do light I guess we can do RLB > Sickle > Shark Bite.

Kinda sucks not being able to SC so well with THF, but my static PT is the best group of players I've played with and we're good friends.

[SlipA]

you're gonna have to ditch either the drk or the thf eventually, post 66 it just doesnt work, you're going to have one of the worst pt setup possible for the next 200k exp or whatever it is

[Ungerpurr]

Er. Sneak attack only works on the first attack. Trick attack most definitely does work on all hits of a multi-hit WS. I was camping eldieme coffer key with 55 pld (and rest of group, of course) tonight, killing tomb mages and warriors. Somehow I doubt she would've been able to keep hate if only the first 160 damage of an 800 damage Raging Fists was tricked onto her, considering that I'd usually already have drawn hate by 20% into the battle, and tricking 1 regular crit's worth of damage (1/5 of total raging fists damage) would've meant exactly nothing.

I'll assume you were very tired when you posted that, Maxim. ^^

[Arli]

Hm, anyone else done any research on this? I'd really like to know, because even if it does delay the renkei - i'd like the security of dropping the damage of Guillotine onto the PLD at the earliest opportunity of a fight then going into the usual Distortion renkei.

Anyway, i'm not ditching my THF, nor am I leaving my LS perma PT.

Comradery > Experience Points

We can still execute Light and Darkness, though it'll have to be 2 man renkei instead of 3. While not *optimal* it still gives us options. I figure at the very least the PLD will have NO problems with losing hate. Wish me luck ^_~

[SlipA]

you can only make darkness, afaik. Savage blade, spinning slash, sharkbite, and evisceration are all the same elements. As i learned the unhappy way, RLB> Sicklemoon makes scission not fusion, so no light renkei. Also means no gustav or king ranperre's tomb pts, love monks :D I've heard of thieves using h2h, but never seen it 60+ outside of skillup parties. Thf is good to partner with just about anything but drk, and drk is good with just about anything but thf, it seems like :(

[univox]

Whether Trick Attack works on every hit or not, it still works well enough in my experience. I have yet to see a mob turn to me after a tricked guillotine, and that's the whole point isn't it? I certainly can't say the same for a non-tricked guillotine.

[Suntan2]

You could do a sucky
Red Lotus Blade > Cyclone > Spinning Slash

[Ednoon]

no THF will do WS that can't go together with Sneak Attack. Cyclone is wind dmg WS.

about Trick Attack Guillotine, only first hit counts, if you miss first hit and land the rest you will get aggro. if you do it with sneak attack you will land 1st 100% but if you get 4/4 Guillotine in you might have aggro issue.

about the TP thing, its gonna be like this all the way till 75 especially Skill Chain with DRG, MNK, RNG.
dont look at as you are slowing down the PT, "Save" only means you can SC at the start and pushing chain xp. its all how you play it. i dont remember who was not happy to see chain 5 xp.

[gix]

it's not -that- big of a deal if you can manage save -> 0 2 4
and SC 1 3 5. 4th is probably the hardest one but if you turn on SE you can do it.

[gix]

on a sidenote. if you want to make darkness you can do:
Shark Bite -> Cross Reaper -> Swift Blade. it's not the greatest SC dmg but your mages should be able to easily double burst it.

[SlipA]

Not to sound mean, but if you're still getting hit after guillotine followed by fuidama dancing edge....either your tank or your thief really suck, or maybe you're fighting the boreal hound for exp.

[Awntawn]

Originally posted by Ednoon
about Trick Attack Guillotine, only first hit counts, if you miss first hit and land the rest you will get aggro. if you do it with sneak attack you will land 1st 100% but if you get 4/4 Guillotine in you might have aggro issue.


No

stop missing trick attack :p

[Ungerpurr]

Trick must work differently for guillotine than it does for raging fists, then. There's no other way to explain a skeleton staying locked onto a 5-levels-lower paladin after trick + RF, when it was on me before trick + RF, than that all 5 hits count towards trick attack for RF. Even if I did the WS when mob was at 80% (at which point the mob was already on me), and RF did 40% damage, the mob was locked onto the paladin for the remainder of the fight. No way that would be the case if trick didn't work for the entire RF.

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by Arli
No way that i've seen. The only saving grace I have is playing a Mithra. The accuracy gear helps alot too for avoiding those no-TP whiffs. I wouldn't be too worried about the TP issue.

As it stands now, i'm in a static PT with a THF ( you think YOU have problems with renkei ;p) so outside of Vorpal Scythe > Dancing Edge > Distortion we really haven't done anything else. Now that I recently learned Guillotine, I find that i'm not participating in renkei as much. Battle usually consists of me tricking buffed Guillotine onto the tank, using sneak attack when it comes up. The THF just busts his sneaked Dancing Edge from the other side of the tank while I keep tricking Guillo. I can't say that I like the process, but it works fairly well and I'm contributing more damage than with Vorpal Scythe.


Any higher level DRKs have some input? I'm horrified at how we're supposed to function when we get our 220+ WSs.

DRK and THF do NOT work together at all.

The only thing I could think of is doing a darkness renkei with the PLD but once you hit 67+ you really need to remove the THF from your static.

You guys can NOT make light at all unless the THF has H2H levelled.

[gix]

it's possible to make light, it's just no thf would ever use Cyclone.

[Ungerpurr]

Thf with HTH...the accuracy issues would be godawful, thus making the skillchain a once-every-three-fights kinda thing. For reference, at 67 a thf has 184 HTH skill, compared to a monk with 236.

In a PT with PLD and THF, you'd probably want a Sam, right? 2-man Dark skillchain (assuming Sam/thf, Swift Blade -> Tachi: Gekko), or three man Light skillchain (Sam/war is good here, Red Lotus Blade -> Tachi: Koki -> Shark Bite). All of this at level 65, and you would get 2-man Light skillchain at level 71.

Or, you could have a Ranger, have 2-man light skillchain at level 65 (Arching Arrow/Heavy Shot -> Shark Bite), and 3-man Dark skillchain (although weak, with <insert almost any ranger WS here> -> Dancing Edge -> Swift Blade).

Or, you could go with warrior...2-man light skillchain at 65 (Mistral Axe -> Shark Bite), and 2-man Dark skillchain (although weak, with Swift Blade -> Full Break).

Blah blah blah blah...etc. The possibilities are endless, except with THF + DRK. The buck stops there; it just doesn't work. Either the DRK or THF really should be replaced, or those 40,000+ XP levels are just going to draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.

The static PT we're setting up in my LS right now is going to be PLD DRK MNK BRD RDM WHM/RDM. We can make both strong Light (66) and Dark (65) skillchains right out of the box thanks to the versatility of Drk.

[Gumbercules]

Goddamn it that sucks.

[Dano]

there is an alternative, I'm not sure what's a thf's rating on clubs, but once when i was xping in king's tomb, there was a thf using clubs and was doing true strike(i think that's the name) for 700-1000 dmg (SATA) and it will end wif fusion so the mnk can dragon kick off it. The thf was subbing nin, she was using club for prime weapon and dagger on the off hand, i dont see her miss much as she is a mithra and they were doing the sc like what we'll normally do.

so i don't think it's impossible for a drk to chain wif a thf for light, you'll just have to use yer head abit.

[Xephoid]

Trick attack transfer the hate of the entire WS. No doubt about it. Never gotten aggro when I tricked guillotine, even if the first hit missed. Not to mention if you think about THF that trick dancing edge (5 hits) or MNK/THF that trick asuran's fist. If it's only first hit, that wouldn't work now would it. :) Trust me, it's the whole WS.

As for DRK + THF party. Yeah, i would avoid at all cost. Try to find someway of fixing it. Replace the THF with a WAR or RNG, and you'll be all set.

[iforget]

I think thief gets an E in club. I guess its a tossup between h2h and club fo them then :sweat:

[Arli]

Well, it's going to require some discussion, though there's a possibility. One of my LS up and coming permas has 2 DRGs and are in need of either a DRK/THF or THF/NIN for hate control once they break 60, so either myself or my perma THF will be traded for one of the DRGs.

Red Lotus Blade > Leg Sweep > Spinning Slash > Light

Red Lotus Blade > Penta Thrust > Cross Reaper >Darkness



I did some testing on the hate transfer of Trick Attack, it does appear that it includes the damage from the entire WS and not just the first hit like Sneak Attack.