elvaan or mithra?

[MurviD]

sooo...
i tried rng out with my liiitle taru, and im loving it. gotten to 16 so far ^^
i soon realized that i would be better off with another race for all those lovely meleejobs i wanna try out.. created a mithra, got it up to 10is in many jobs.. thought again.. elvaan? i already have an elvaan at 20ish from an earlier "rethinking" so maybe i can use that?

now, rng is in short terms r.acc > r.att > agi > str... or thats what ive heard.. elvaan has around lvl60 8 more str i believe, and mithra around 7ish more r.acc..
but hey, you are still going to boost r.acc as freakin hell, -acc+r.acc rings, archer/hawker knifes, drones, you name it.. but then again, a ranger can never get enough r.acc, can they?
ive allso read that 2str=1r.att and 1att.. but att (both r and regular) raises the average dmg and the str boosts the max dmgso just raise your att/r.att wouldnt be as efficient as if u got a little more +str... and a mithra rng with +str items would get flamed in notime, whilst a rng elvaan with +r.acc items would be more then welcome..

i want the highest dmg possibly done, to a certain cost that is.... would the fact that i do have more str, balance out the dmg say a mithra would do with berserk.. berserk is active for 2 mins, and has a timer on 5. so they do has berserk activated 2/5 of the time.. would my dmg even out those other 3/5? or maybe even succeed theirs?

gaaah, another long post... another un-understandeble (?) post.. hope you guys get some of it ^_^

cheers

p.s. search function did not work when i tried it, if this has already been discussed, can you please post a link? thx :)

[Macht]

STR and AGI are both quite important to a RNG. Out of my testing though I've seen that Rng. Acc. is very important, after that STR/AGI, and lastly Rng. Att. So because of that Elvaan or Mithra are fairly equal as RNGs the Elvaan will have a very slight upper hand with their STR but it isn't enough to make them superior to Mithra.

So really it's your decision which you want, just the two races are going to have at 1 point a couple of items that focuses on the opposite of their strengths. So a Mithra eventually will have a few +STR along with all their +Rng. Acc and +AGI items, and an Elvaan will just have more +AGI to offset their difference.

In the end it's more the players skill then anything.

[greysenn]

Oh for the love of god noo..

Please allow me to redirect you to an earlier post.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32270

Bottom line: Whoever has better gear is going to win. If you want it more precise, you'll need to parse a high level elvaan and a mithra side by side, (with identical gear, since I'm presuming thats what you're after) and see who does more damage.

[Macht]

Originally posted by greysenn
Oh for the love of god noo..

Please allow me to redirect you to an earlier post.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32270

Bottom line: Whoever has better gear is going to win. If you want it more precise, you'll need to parse a high level elvaan and a mithra side by side, (with identical gear, since I'm presuming thats what you're after) and see who does more damage.

It's exactly my point greysenn, the gear in the end is all that really makes the difference. Other then that the Elvaan and Mithra have an almost unmentionable difference in damage.

[greysenn]

Yeah, you posted before I got mine up. You fast typer you.

[2.0]

Elvaan with uber gear > Mithra with uber gear

[poweryoga]

I don't really think that's true but elvaan look like giraffes. :thumbsup:

[Peppara]

Originally posted by poweryoga
I don't really think that's true but elvaan look like giraffes. :thumbsup:


lol


I think its the gear that seperates a good rng from a bad rng. I dont think race plays a major role. I know tarutaru RNG and they perform decently you just need the right gear.

[Timoham]

In my experience most elvaan RNGs have really sucked it up and had the accuracy of a level 1 SAM against a level 30 mob. Then again most of them were also all /THF and had shitty gear, so it could just be that most elvaans playing a RNG are only doing it so they get the gangsta style bow and not playing RNG to kick ass. I did see a video of a Maat battle of an elvaan with an ebow taking out Maat with Sidewinder -> EES -> Barrage -> Sidewinder.

I do have to agree the gear is what makes the RNG. At lower levels though, before you have the ability to get the gear, mithra make much better RNGs just because they can actually hit >.>

[neverwinters]

elvaan = high dmg low acc
mithra = low dmg high acc

[Macht]

If you really look at it from lv. 1 Elvaan and Mithra RNGs have very little difference Elvaan will have 1 more STR and Mithra will have 1 more AGI. That isn't even enough to make any huge impact in anything you do. Once you reach lv. 75 Elvaan will have something like 8-10 more STR and Mithra will have 8-10 more AGI. Now compensating that shouldn't be a problem at all for either race.

Yes when you play the game Race makes very little difference damage and accuracy wise it'll translate to at the most being 5% of the overall formula. The other 95% will come from how the player sets up the character with gear and such.

The biggest advantage though that Taru get is they can sub just about any mage with melee and make it look like a very well combination if done right. They have that ability because they get a higher INT and MP, but again any race can compensate it if they wanted.

So there really isn't that huge a reason to debate it. Like I said because of how damage output works Elvaan has an advantage but it's very slight in light of the fact that their accuracy ends up balancing their damage out to what a Mithra does. Same goes with a Mithra's damage balancing out with their accuracy, and other races balancing themselves in the job at different focuses.

[Timoham]

At 59 with no subjob elvaan have 50 str and 50 agi. Mithra have 40 str and 64 agi. That's pretty damn significant either way if you ask me.

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/Status_calculator.htm

And Level 1 also isn't really the issue. It's before you get all the +racc stuff. At 20 elvaan have 20 str and 20 agi. A mithra has 16 str and 26 agi. If you ask me, that additional agi makes a huge difference without the archer knives.

[Lilya]

Elvaans have cooler ears. but they have real low accuracy and that's one of the most important thing that a ranger needs or else you would just be wasting amo which costs money.:angel:

[Macht]

Originally posted by Timoham
At 59 with no subjob elvaan have 50 str and 50 agi. Mithra have 40 str and 64 agi. That's pretty damn significant either way if you ask me.

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/Status_calculator.htm

And Level 1 also isn't really the issue. It's before you get all the +racc stuff. At 20 elvaan have 20 str and 20 agi. A mithra has 16 str and 26 agi. If you ask me, that additional agi makes a huge difference without the archer knives.

I doubt the validity of that calculator. Not only does it have HP wrong on my characters setup but it has AGI wrong as well. It's showing my stats at lv. 54 being to high in AGI and to low in HP.

Stat calculators are taking assumed formulas and making a result out of it. The common error that will occur with these formulas is the larger the numbers get the larger a discrepency shows up. This discrepency is usually more and more of a result of an error in the equation.

EDIT:

Biggest possibility of the error is that the person creating this calculator assumed that all stats increase by a percent amount. Given the complexity of this game I doubt they would of done that because when request character stat information there is an obvious pause that very much resembles that of a data query. So the stats are being queried off an obvious database which then means any stat can be adjusted or altered how the developers see fit.

So taking that percentage display route isn't the best way. The reason is because it WILL be wrong the higher you go in level, which is what he pointed out in his notes after lv. 60.

[Timoham]

Are you sure you included your subjob? :P It calculates it correctly for my character for every job as long as my subjob is levelled

[poweryoga]

race doesn't matter as much as equipment.

since you won't be holding uber equipment for most of the game, Acc is the most important for almost all rangers, minus the top lvl 75 ones that already have Kotes and those relic bows plus AF2s etc.

Being that, having more agi > str since elvaans have terribly low agi even if they sub nin.

I just think being mithra lets you sub war without as big of a penalty, but I'm not getting into a subjob argument as there's enough of those floating around that I don't need to start another one.

:spin:

[Reisuki]

Since I started my RNG on my character i have wondered;

"Should I make an Elvaan or keep my Mithra?"

Like most have mentioned, Mithra have higher AGI so they have higher natural accuracy and Elvaans have higher natural STR and thus they have more damaging attacks.

Again, like most posters in this thread have mentioned, equipment plays a much larger factor in the effectivness of your RNG than your race does.

So it my opinion it comes down to two chioces.

Mithra - Gets TP faster, High Accuracy
Elvaan - Moderate Accuracy, Harder-hitting weaponskills

In the end i decided to stick with my mithra, mainly because i don't liek throwing money away, missed arrows, so less misses mean i'am a happier RNG =^-^=

[Macht]

Originally posted by Timoham
Are you sure you included your subjob? :P It calculates it correctly for my character for every job as long as my subjob is levelled

Yeah, when I tried it the formula was off. It wasn't huge difference but from how it was off and looking the string code for it I do feel it's calculations can't be trusted fully to be pitching it as this Race is better this Race because this calculator not from Square Enix say so.

Not to mention that the way it's displaying data, and how it calculates those can be thrown of badly. My Sub's actual level is 40, if I had put that in there instead of forcing it down to what it's at with the Mains current it will go off drastically.

This leads to show that it's displaying incorrect data stating it to be actual, so I will not trust it. When I create stuff like this I make sure that it's historic will remain acurate no matter what, so If I put in a sub of hading 5 or having 60 what info it gives me will remain accurate. This calculator however doesn't and makes gaps were info on those levels are incorrect.

Anyway again as far as stats affect to the jobs ability is usually a direct relation. So 1 STR would translate to 1 damage and 1 AGI probably translates to .1%. So with 10 STR you do 10 more damage and 10 AGI you get 1% accuracy boost. Saying that the base accuracy is 80 for both and the base damage done is 100. Then out of 100 shots you'd end up with the one that has higher STR doing 8,800 damage and the one with higher AGI doing 8,100 damage.

Now up the shots to 200 and you got STR = 17,600 and AGI doing 16,200 damage. So after 300 shots it's 26,400 damage and AGI it's 24,300. Now how much AGI effects accuracy I've never seen much testing or done much to see how much it is that accuracy is increased for each AGI added.

The thing you can be quite sure about is that the percent increase by race isn't going to be larger then 5%-8% which if you do the math on that you'll see then that having more AGI or more STR is going to be nominal improvements.

So in the end it justs rely largly on the gear you focus on and how much a skilled player you are. On top of that if you take the numbers to more drastic calculations you'll see more what the playstyle of each race is.

For example doing 4,000 shots as the test and assuming that 80% is the base accuracy then a Elvaan will hit 3,200 shots and a Mithra assuming it's 8% better in accuracy then the Elvaan they'll hit 3,520 shots.

So what it ends up boiling down to is when the Elvaan has a luck streak and it hitting more then normal he's going to outdamage the Mithra so will have to fire less then the Mithra. However the Mithra at it's best is only going to match the Elvaan's standard best ability and regardless of hit or miss will have to shoot more arrows to match the damage.

So as a result of that the Elvaan could potentially save himself money if he keeps a close eye on how well he's hitting and be outdamaging a Mithra if he's lucky. This means the Elvaan has to be more observant of what he is currently doing to achieve that accuracy. The Mithra however doesn't need to bother watching the numbers as closely because weather hit or miss they'll still have to fire a set amount to stay matched.

So a Mithra will be more conserned on the damage they are getting out as opposed to the Elvaan being more conserned on how accurate he is and paying attention for sudden streaks of great accuracy. In the end it's still balancing out because it's playing a game of probability.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Macht
Anyway again as far as stats affect to the jobs ability is usually a direct relation. So 1 STR would translate to 1 damage and 1 AGI probably translates to .1%. So with 10 STR you do 10 more damage and 10 AGI you get 1% accuracy boost.
If this were true, then the accuracy difference between an A rank weapon and a C rank weapon at LV60 is only 2.6%.* An A and E rank weapon would only be 6.4% apart in accuracy.

Your formula, while admittedly hypothetical, does not seem to match up to reality.

*10 AGI = 5 RACC, and if 5 RACC = 1% accuracy increase, then 1 RACC = 0.2%. Skill difference @LV60 between A and C is 13 (which means an advantage of RATK+13 and RACC+13 for higher skill cap). 13 * 0.2 = 2.6% accuracy increase.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Spider-Dan
If this were true, then the accuracy difference between an A rank weapon and a C rank weapon at LV60 is only 2.6%.* An A and E rank weapon would only be 6.4% apart in accuracy.

Your formula, while admittedly hypothetical, does not seem to match up to reality.

*10 AGI = 5 RACC, and if 5 RACC = 1% accuracy increase, then 1 RACC = 0.2%. Skill difference @LV60 between A and C is 13 (which means an advantage of RATK+13 and RACC+13 for higher skill cap). 13 * 0.2 = 2.6% accuracy increase.

I don't see the point you were trying to get at with that? The calculations done was following the same job with different races. So a weapon skill such as archery shouldn't have a difference since it's the same job. The equation was just focusing purely around a hypothetical relation showing 1 constantly stated factor (1 STR = 1 damage) and a hypothetical factor to show it's impacted relation (1 AGI = .1% accuracy).

Please provide more detail of what point you were trying to make, I keep re-examining the post and can't see what relevance it had to this post.

[Spider-Dan]

The point is that if 1 AGI was only 0.1% accuracy increase, then there would be very little difference (less than 3%) between A and C rank weapons at LV60. Since there is a significant difference in accuracy % between A and C rank weapons at that level, we can therefore deduce that you assign far too little accuracy value to AGI.

[oozma]

1 agi = 0.5 ranged accuracy, im pretty sure

[Reaperx90]

I honestly don't see any valid reasons to try to get the highest damage possible. Big numbers are pretty and all, but they don't work to the advantage of the party. For example:

Say I do 100-120 DPS(damage per shot). The first shot I fire turns the enemy to me (and at my level, 33, it pretty much does). I have to tank the thing until the tank can pull it off of me - and the mages are curing me so hard that they're getting too much hate and taking damage. The enemy's all over the place so there is less damage being done to it, etc. And if I continue to fire while the enemy is on me, the tank's provoke might not even pull it off of me.

Now say I do 80-100 DPS. I'm still vastly outdamaging everyone in my party, but I can fire one shot every few seconds without the enemy so much as turning an earlobe to me >.> The enemy's damage output is lessened due to all of his attacks being directed at the most defensive player, and he falls faster because he is standing still, thus allowing all of the melee to actually attack him.

These situations are hypothetical, and good tanks can very likely maintain aggro through a 120 damage shot, but "good" tanks are admittedly difficult to come by. On the other end of the spectrum, bad tanks can't even keep hate through a 80 damage shot...shoot, I've almost considered not eating food so I could freaking fire two shots without pulling hate >_<

The damage gap between RNGs and other heavy melees may close later in the game, making twinking one's damage potential less devastating, but until that happens I would go all out R.Acc+AGI - the innately huge damage in ranged weapons will do more than enough damage.

[greysenn]

You won't run into tanks that can keep hate off of you until the mid 40's and 50's. Then you can shoot all day long, berserked with weapon of choice and still not pull hate. (At least on the hard shelled stuff.)

[Fingolfin]

Well I'm going to be a mithra, for less misses. I don't like to hear myself roar 'AARRGGHH' when I miss.

[Timoham]

Originally posted by Reaperx90
I honestly don't see any valid reasons to try to get the highest damage possible. Big numbers are pretty and all, but they don't work to the advantage of the party. For example:

Say I do 100-120 DPS(damage per shot). The first shot I fire turns the enemy to me (and at my level, 33, it pretty much does). I have to tank the thing until the tank can pull it off of me - and the mages are curing me so hard that they're getting too much hate and taking damage. The enemy's all over the place so there is less damage being done to it, etc. And if I continue to fire while the enemy is on me, the tank's provoke might not even pull it off of me.

Now say I do 80-100 DPS. I'm still vastly outdamaging everyone in my party, but I can fire one shot every few seconds without the enemy so much as turning an earlobe to me >.> The enemy's damage output is lessened due to all of his attacks being directed at the most defensive player, and he falls faster because he is standing still, thus allowing all of the melee to actually attack him.

These situations are hypothetical, and good tanks can very likely maintain aggro through a 120 damage shot, but "good" tanks are admittedly difficult to come by. On the other end of the spectrum, bad tanks can't even keep hate through a 80 damage shot...shoot, I've almost considered not eating food so I could freaking fire two shots without pulling hate >_<

The damage gap between RNGs and other heavy melees may close later in the game, making twinking one's damage potential less devastating, but until that happens I would go all out R.Acc+AGI - the innately huge damage in ranged weapons will do more than enough damage.

o.O If you have a tank who can't keep hate off the WHM, you have a REALLY bad tank. Think RIDICULOUSLY bad. And a RNGs job is to do as much damage as possible. Only time my tank loses hate (which still is not often) is with a barrage. Even when that happens, there's cover. That's of course assuming you have a PLD tank. My static actually has a Galka WAR/MNK using a Gaxe as a tank and he NEVER loses hate.

[sharlngan]

do you want to hold guns/bow cooler than other races? elvaan it is =p even tho when we run we look sooooooo gay

[DrSerpico]

If you love high damage figures, go elvaan.

If you know you're gonna get a fit and fling your keyboard at your dog when you miss sidewinder no. 54623, DON'T go elvaan.

Elvaans are for damage freaks that get turned on by high numbers. With elvaan, you WILL get high damage.

With mithra, the blms will be a bit happier. Both admittedly work fine, and as many already pointed out, gear is the biggest "make or break" for a ranger, not race.

Good luck with ranger! ^^

[sharlngan]

i dont miss that often =p only on extremely high evasion monsters ie perytons ._.;

[Ariagiovanni]

Today in garlaige citadel I was outdamaging and hitting more than an Elvaan ranger of the same level in my party. I'm tarutaru, and i was doing roughly 5-7 more damage than him per shot, and hitting more. I had better gear.

[Ljarin]

If I was choosing I'd pick Mithra anyday, who on earth would want to look like a giraffe ;;