"Recycling"?

[Soliloquy]

My friend saw a RNG in AF2 the other day. He was looking at the stats (at my request >.>), and noticed that on the headgear, it gave a boost to "Recycling". I looked around to see if I can find any info on it, and could only find one thing - the person posting wasn't sure, but thought it was a trait that would randomly activate, saving the arrow (or other ammunition) from being used.

Does anyone know anything about this?

[Serpent]

lol yeah I been wondering about it to XD

[oozma]

unlimited shot every 5-10 shots..
i.e you dont use an arrow

[Lilith]

Doesnt that mean you can shoot a conquest arrow like every 5-10 shots?Cool if you are from win;D

[Kunami]

It's a random determination. So it may or may not happen. where as US always works. It just saves you a little bit of gil thats all.

[2.0]

Yeah so in other words it sucks.

[greysenn]

Yeah, because 10-20% savings in arrows sucks.

[2.0]

Yeah level 75 people really need to worry about saving arrows.:angel:

[poweryoga]

rather ignorant belief that all lvl 75 players are filled with millions of gil. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

only an idiot woudn't try to save arrows when he/she can.

[TaruSGonEWilD]

sounds like a very helpful skill, I would like to see the percentage upped a bit but thats only cause I'm a cheap skate when it comes to throwing gil at mobs for dmg. Yes I do go with the best available equipment and arrows but I still don't like it :sweat:

[2.0]

Ok let's compare level 70ish ranger headgear shall we?

War Beret HP+10 INT-3 Accuracy+7 Ranged Accuracy+7
Extra accuracy always a good thing.

Optical Hat Accuracy+10 Ranged Accuracy+10 Evasion+10
Even more accuracy. Can't complain about that. A bitch to get but well worth the effort.

Which now leads us to the...

Scout Beret HP+15 MND+4 Enmity-3 Recycling
No accuracy whatsoever. Pretty useless stats for a ranger but hey I get to save 3 arrows in a stack. Only item in the game with the precious recycling ability too.

Bottom line: Recycling still sucks. And if you're level a 73+ ranger(the requirement for using the Crap Beret) worrying about conserving arrows then you suck too.:)

[Rhayn]

I'd have to say that AF2 hat is probably most useful when helping lower levels with AF coffer keys, genkai items, other quests, farming, or showing off. You shouldn't have much trouble hitting these so the accuracy+ isn't needed and there's no point wasting more arrows than you already are. Plus, you can boast having AF2... not that an Optical hat isn't boastable, but in my opinion it's quite ugly. ;)

[greysenn]

Accuracy that you might or might not need depending on what you're fighting.. considering a good amount of the stuff out there is now VT and below, IE, easy to hit.

I certainly wouldn't wear it for HNM or dynamis.. but thats a whole different animal.

If (Thats a big if) it is as high as it sounds, you're dismissing 10-20% savings in ammunition for a pathetic increase in hit rate on most stuff. That's 1-2 stacks out of 10, not 3 out of 100.
The hat sounds like a winner to me for non-alliance situations

[2.0]

Wow. I must be in the Twilight Zone. How anybody could possibly think that the Crap Beret is even a tenth of the item the other two head pieces is beyond me. Ranger can never and will never need too much accuracy.

If it was a level 53 headpiece. It might be (not really) be worth something. But since it's a level 73 item it's absolutely useless unless you're helping people out like the other guy was talking about.

[greysenn]

You are correct. It is a toy. That does not diminish it's usefulness in those situations however.

[poweryoga]

Someone's not getting the fact that the cap is not meant for exp parties.

Farming, AF, NM hunting, Screwing around, etc all eat arrows. of course there's better hats for exp parties, every ranger and their mom knows about the existance of Optical hat and war beret.

But there's just dumbasses that think once you get the scout hat it stays on your head forever and can't possibly use another hat ever again... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

there's times you can save arrows, and there's time that you use them like water. Having something that lowers your farming cost doesn't suck.

(wearing optical hat while farming? Pretty useless)

HNMs are a different story.

[2.0]

Think about it this way. If the Crap beret was an item that you could buy would you? So that you could use it on the off chance that once in a while you might save 3-5 (lmao at actually thinking it's 10-20) arrows/bullets in a stack? If you say yes then I'm pretty sure you're lying.

It's free so if it comes a ranger's way why not get it. But at level 73 it has no real practical purpose whatsoever.Who the hell's still farming at that level anyway?

[Macht]

Originally posted by 2.0
Think about it this way. If the Crap beret was an item that you could buy would you? So that you could use it on the off chance that once in a while you might save 3-5 (lmao at actually thinking it's 10-20) arrows/bullets in a stack? If you say yes then I'm pretty sure you're lying.

It's free so if it comes a ranger's way why not get it. But at level 73 it has no real practical purpose whatsoever.Who the hell's still farming at that level anyway?

Hmm, I would farm still. For my own satisfaction, but hell something that saves me arrows when I goof around sounds great. Since I do goof around a lot there, any item that saves me money seems worth it. Besides the - Enmity is fun to play with, you're new to this board arn't you 2.0?

Anyway besides that question, the only point you should consider is sooner or latter it is fun to just get an item to play around with. It doesn't have to have any significant purpose other then as being a trinket to show off that you've obtained something that not to many others have.

Great item to show of to new players for the fun of it.

The one thing though that does consern me is people thinking that hoarding a huge amount on 1 specific stat will give a great return to them. If this game is coded like anything of the 20 MUDs I've done coding in then the biggest thing you should know is pushing 1 stat after a certain point the return you get for it falls of to were you'd actually benefit more raising something else instead.

Hell 1 MUD I did coding for has a string in it were it's entire purpose was to influence players decision on what they played. If you played a job or combination that currently had a high number of players playing you effectiveness would be reduced, but if you went unique or with the lesser numbers you get a greater return in effectiveness. This was hidden coding in the game FYI, those actually playing were never to know it's existence. It's purpose was mainly to give something popularity by become unusually effective so that word of mouth would influence it.

I'm not saying that SE put this in their coding, but they have made it clear that many of their items have hidden gains. So I wouldn't be to quick to judge an item because of the gains that are given openly about it.

[Rhayn]

Originally posted by 2.0
Who the hell's still farming at that level anyway?

People who know a spot where they can make 40k/hr on a good day, who hate waiting 3 or more hours for an HNM to spawn only to lose claim or not get drop, or who would like to be able to make money solo. ;)

Also, don't forget moderately difficult NMs that only require a small party to kill. A good ranger shouldn't have trouble hitting anything that would be "even match" or lower, even without some of the +acc gear, so all that +acc extra is just wasted space at that point. Also, there comes a point where additional +acc has less and less effect, even against exp mobs. If you find you're barely ever missing, there's no reaon not to wear it.

I'm not trying to argue it's better than those other gears, but trusthfully, AF2 isn't supposed to act as the "be all, end all" gear. It's designed to offer a balanced set of traits and abilities that all benefit the job in some way. Just look at normal AF and you can already see it designed this way.

[2.0]

You know that when you quote people you should really read what you're quoting Macht.

Would you buy it? Would you? It's free so of course you're gonna take it if it comes your way. But you wouldn't spend a ton of money on it and you know it.

Like you said it's a great (really?) item to show off to new players for the fun of it. And like I said at level 73 it has no practical purpose whatsoever.

I'm not gonna say too much to the rest of the foolishness of your post. I will say this. You can't have too much ranged accuracy. I don't need some coding,or algorithim,or whatever to tell me otherwise.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by 2.0
Would you buy it? Would you? It's free so of course you're gonna take it if it comes your way. But you wouldn't spend a ton of money on it and you know it

It depends on how much it costs. It's suppose to be a money saving item, so paying hundreds of thousands of gil on it is quite rediculous. If it's 5k, then why not? More money saved overtime then you spend on it then.

[Macht]

Originally posted by 2.0
You know that when you quote people you should really read what you're quoting Macht.

Would you buy it? Would you? It's free so of course you're gonna take it if it comes your way. But you wouldn't spend a ton of money on it and you know it.

Like you said it's a great (really?) item to show off to new players for the fun of it. And like I said at level 73 it has no practical purpose whatsoever.

I'm not gonna say too much to the rest of the foolishness of your post. I will say this. You can't have too much ranged accuracy. I don't need some coding,or algorithim,or whatever to tell me otherwise.

Sorry, obviously you didn't get mine either. As for you asking me if I'd buy, answer is Yes. Again it's still an item for me to play with free or not.

The point I was making is that most RPGs code stat boosts and bonuses you get from gear on a curve, eventually the curve becomes so steep that an item that looks good like +10 Accuracy will in fact not benefit you as much because it's been pushed so far already. In that case focusing on Strength, Magic resistance, Evasion, anything else is more beneficial.

That is evidence I've found time and time again in all my programing and coding of games on this type of genre.

[2.0]

I understand that for a lot of jobs being an accuracy whore eventually gets diminishing returns. Ranger however is not one of those jobs. As long as Sidewinder is still a useful weaponskill Ranger will not have "enough" ranged accuracy.

[Rhayn]

The ranger in my set hits with Sidewinder about 93% of the time to IT monsters. Not much room for improvement there. :P

[Macht]

Originally posted by 2.0
I understand that for a lot of jobs being an accuracy whore eventually gets diminishing returns. Ranger however is not one of those jobs. As long as Sidewinder is still a useful weaponskill Ranger will not have "enough" ranged accuracy.

Hmm, still not getting it. Sidewinder is designed with an innate Accuracy effectiveness, the TP counts as part of it. So this means no matter how far you push accuracy it's going to reach less and less of a return, this includes the return it will give for Sidewinder.

So now with anyone smart in making these curves they just code it so that at a certain point it hits it's 100% Accuracy (more like 80% - 97%, for realism purposes). So all you do when you pump that accuracy so high for a skill like Sidewinder is reduce how much TP you need for it to cap of at it's 100%, since almost no one waits for 300% TP. Once you've reached that point which I'm sure you will before you have all these +10 Accuracy, probably with just a couple and level you'll reach it.

At that point any extra Accuracy you collect isn't going to benefit you, what benefit is pushing sidewinder so that only 10% TP is needed to cap off the possible accuracy you can do with it when you'll still need to make 90% to use it. There is no benefit then of that extra accuracy, which you could of instead balanced it so that at around 100% TP you reach the max and have a nice attack bonus to improve it's damage even more.

The ranger in my set hits with Sidewinder about 93% of the time to IT monsters. Not much room for improvement there. :P

If that doesn't prove my point any clearer then I don't know what will....I bet his ranger doesn't have every single one of those +10 Accuracy items. Actually looking at his level, that Ranger doesn't.

[2.0]

Macht which headpiece do you think is better? War Beret or Scout Beret? Optical Hat or Scout Beret?

[Macht]

Originally posted by 2.0
Macht which headpiece do you think is better? War Beret or Scout Beret?

Depends how the rest of my equipment is setup. If I've already got like +35 or +40 Range Accuracy in equipment then the -Enmity and the added MND for Magic Resists seem more beneficial. However if my rings/weapon/necklace didn't give me that accuracy or something close to it then War Beret would be better.

I'm not enticed like some fox to a shiney object, I look to see how much more that item is turely going to benefit me keeping in mind that curve.

EDIT:

At lv. 35+ I've had +27 Range Accuracy. After swapping the items I have from there with a few others it reached 35, that is just from equipment alone add in the Accuracy Bonus and I've already got a lot more then I'll need. So I've been focusing more around Strength and other things already anyways, think you know you're accuracy is high enough if you can constantly hit 300% TP before anyone else in your parties can even get 100% TP.

In fact the parties I was in last night that exact thing was happening, even 1 situation were I gained 500% tp (200% TP used, then gained another 300% TP) before another had 100% TP. So that seems to indicate I'm hitting very well and don't have any extra need for Accuracy.

[2.0]

Originally posted by Rhayn
The ranger in my set hits with Sidewinder about 93% of the time to IT monsters. Not much room for improvement there. :P

Not saying I don't believe you but you're gonna have to explain to me how that's possible. Certainly a bard's involved. You seem like you did some research on it though.

[Soliloquy]

Wow, this topic got a lot more replies than I expected it to. @_@ Thanks for the info!

BTW - +40 R.ACC isn't that hard to get. You can have it at 30 - two archer's knives is +20, ranger's necklace is +5, horn arrows are +5, beetle rings +1 are +4 apiece, and War Bow +1 (or even the older Power Bow +1) is +2.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Soliloquy
Wow, this topic got a lot more replies than I expected it to. @_@ Thanks for the info!

BTW - +40 R.ACC isn't that hard to get. You can have it at 30 - two archer's knives is +20, ranger's necklace is +5, horn arrows are +5, beetle rings +1 are +4 apiece, and War Bow +1 (or even the older Power Bow +1) is +2.

Yes, more to my point we get so much R. Acc that try to horde every scrap we can find in the end just hurts us more then helps. It's far better to give up some +R. Accuracy if it isn't needed to improve damage or something else.

[Rhayn]

Our set is pld/thf/rng/whm/blm/rdm. We use Shock to lower AGI and Gravity to lower evasion. She's Hume RNG/NIN and renkeis with our THF for Sidewinder > Dancing Edge > Swift Blade (if I have TP). The thief positions behind me, so we rely on Sidewinder to hit and turn the monster for it to work.

Gear is currently like this:

War bow+1 (rgd acc+2, rgd attack+18)
Scorpion/Demon Arrows (rgd acc+5)
Fransisca (rgd attack/acc+7)
Archer's Knife (rgd acc+10)
Full AF (AGI+4, rgd attack+5, rgd acc+10)
Ranger's necklace (rgd attack/acc+5)
2x Drone Earrings (2x AGI+3)
2x Scorpion rings+1 (2x rgd acc+8)
Royal Knight's belt+1 (AGI+2, rgd acc+5 outside nation control)
Amemit mantle (rgd attack+10)

Totals:
Ranged accuracy+60 (+55 if our nation controls zone, and +100 if using Prt.Ptr.Arrow/Unlimited Shot)
Ranged attack+45
AGI+10

I only listed AGI, ranged attack, and ranged accuracy because those are generally considered most important aside from STR. This is without food, which is normally Meat Mithkabobs or Chiefkabobs. She usually throws Sharpshot up for Sidewinder and Barrages. She uses scorpion arrows and switches in a Demon arrow for weaponskills, although she's probably getting a Patriarch Protector's Arrow to switch in and use Unlimited Shot with (DMG:40 Ranged Accuracy+40 Ranged Attack+10 Additional Effect : Paralysis), which means for Sidewinders she'd have Sharpshot in effect and Ranged Accuracy+100 (but only +60 for now) from gear alone.

Take into account the fact that when our thief gets 100% TP, the ranger usually has around 150%+, and you can see why she doesn't miss much and why an additional +10 ranged accuracy probably wouldn't make a huge difference. :)

In fact, I was probably going to suggest switching out some gear for STR+ or Ranged Attack+ except for when using Sidewinder, especially since our renkei will change to Arching Arrow > Shark Bite at level 66.

[2.0]

Originally posted by Macht
Yes, more to my point we get so much R. Acc that try to horde every scrap we can find in the end just hurts us more then helps. It's far better to give up some +R. Accuracy if it isn't needed to improve damage or something else.

Like I said before. I know that being an accuracy whore can only get you so far. I have no problem with Ranger Necklace over Peacock Charm or Francisca over Hawker Knife. (Still not sure just what Ranged Attack does but that's a topic for another thread) I will not however give up accuracy for negligible magic defense,a useless recycling ability ( to stay on topic) and -enmity that might or might not be useful. Perhaps more of the scout pieces together would make a difference but I doubt it.

[greysenn]

So that you could use it on the off chance that once in a while you might save 3-5 (lmao at actually thinking it's 10-20) arrows/bullets in a stack?

Considering where you have to go to get it, it wouldn't suprise me if it does. If it's only 3-5% like you "think" it might be, then yeah, it's probably a waste of an inventory spot.

I'm not gonna say too much to the rest of the foolishness of your post. I will say this. You can't have too much ranged accuracy. I don't need some coding,or algorithim,or whatever to tell me otherwise.

Yeah, you can. But that gets into a stupid assed /war & /nin debate about how berserk deals more damage than ninja acc adds in situations.
You should, under normal circumstances get as much Racc as possible whatever subjob tho.

(Still not sure just what Ranged Attack does but that's a topic for another thread)

Raises damage curve, average 20-30% increase in hits for berserk. (less on crabs, more on softies, etc)

[poweryoga]

rangers farm every level because they need money to do anything. If something like this beret is up for sale in the AH it would go for millions anyways. Seeing how its not, thats just better.

At lvl 73, you'll be busy trying to save up money for Cursed equipment, bullets, and maybe finally purchasing euryto's bow if you don't already have it. Dusk trousers +1, war beret +1, buying/killing hakutakus for eyes (100k per eye) and paying someone to synth it, relic bow, and always helping other people with stuff. Dynamis doesn't come with free either.

every level uses money, who DOESN'T farm? You still don't seem to get that this piece of armor is NOT for exp parties. There are better things (even hunter beret) for this. However, ability to save arrows in EVERY PLACE outside of exping (fraction of your total time online anyways) is invaluable, and you'd be a fool to not realize that.

Calling recycle a "useless ability" is an ignorant comment no matter how you look at it. Don't like it? Don't use it. Every other ranger wants this hat.

[2.0]

If you think that you're gonna get the cash for +1 equipment, cursed armor and an ebow by farming tree cuttings for 20k an hour or whatever that's actually a pretty funny concept. But hey hopefully the scout's beret with the great recycling ability will bring you closer to that goal.

[poweryoga]

I'm not even gonna bother arguing with you anymore, you just can't seem to understand the fact that the cap is useful for situations that you can't seem to grasp.

If you want to misinterpret everything I say to fit whatever you want it to mean in your little head, go ahead. :thumbsup:

I keep frogetting arguing with dense people is pointless.

[TaruSGonEWilD]

Honestly 2.0, how can saving arrows be a bad thing? Your still doing dmg with them its just like being give 10-20 arrows extra per stack. Doesn't sound like its a bad thing at all. Poweryoga is right, it doesn't have to be, nor should it be, used for exping. If there are better hats for rng then OFCOURSE YOU ARE GONNA WANT TO USE THOSE IN AN EXP PT!!!!!!!!!!!!! The fact is if its 10-20 arrows saved on a stack that if 1 stack of arrows saved every 5-10 stacks. I don't know about you but using less arrows, thus saving you more money, sounds like a great deal for a rng to me.

[2.0]

It's not 10-20 a stack. It's more like 3. They were talking about it in this topic here (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=7&mid=1086975533628336006&num=15) and the guy who has it and has used it says that he saves 3-5 bullets/bolts/arrows in a stack. That's why recycling sucks.

[TaruSGonEWilD]

so what your saying is the % is very low so that sucks. ok now that makes a bit more sense. Sure itd be nice to have a higher % but hell saving any arrows at all is still nice. The percentage is what sucks not the actual ability.

[Corrado]

Scorp arrow cost per 99/2000gil.

Arrows saved my Recycling 3-5.

Total cost saved.. 60-100.

Useful? I think not.

[OneWingedDemon]

If some people don't like it, they aren't forced to use it. If some people like it, they can use it. This barely passes as a debatable topic, SQ isn't forcing anyone to use this in the least, it's actually better than nothing at all.

[2.0]

Fair enough. Yes the Scout Beret is better than nothing. Just not by a lot.:)

[Jujube1030]

I didnt read all the post; but skimmed through most of them and they all seemed to be based on the ignorant fact that they believe you may save what, 3-5%?

I am a lvl 75 ranger and have the Scout's Beret and it activates a hell of alot more then what everyone seems to think. I still have not done extensive testing but I defintely notice a difference when using it. I would say an extra 30 shots per stack of ammo.

Accuracy is NOT an issue at 75; i have over 80 or close to 90 ranged accuracy with my accuracy equip on and its overkill especially with the Accuracy Bonus IV. I have an optical hat and change equip depending on SITUTATION, in fact i carry an alternate item for almost every slot because i may not always want accuracy accuracy accuracy.

/comfort poweryoga
Sorry i didnt visit thread sooner to help you out with these ignorant people >.<

[poweryoga]

*hides behind jujube* ; ;

[2.0]

30% Jujube1030? Yeah you're gonna have to start some of that extensive testing.

[Reaperx90]

2.0 - in the topic you cited, nobody came anywhere NEAR giving a "scientific evaluation" of how many arrows it consumed. Jujube's estimates are just as valid as theirs.

To join the argument, if you're farming for 20k/hour at level 75 you're doing something wrong. I've seen level 55 RNGs giving farming options that bring in at least 50k/hr - and that's at level 55. By the level you obtain the beret, you're doing SIGNIFIGANTLY less exping than anything else, and you're not likely spending your time fighting monsters against whom that +10 ranged accuracy will make a difference.

Now when presented with the choice of having +10 ranged accuracy or saving 10-20 (even 3-5) arrow sper stack, when you never, EVER miss anyway (and this is the case with anything below VT - this is true even at level 20 with +18 ranged accuracy) what the hell is more ranged accuracy gonna do? Nothing. Saving even as little as 3-5 arrows per stack is FAR more "effective" than having 10 more ranged accuracy saving you from missing one out of every 600 shots.