"Enhancing sword" is it worth the 6million?

[llkoole7]

I was just wondering if any of you higher level player have got your hands on this sword. Did u notice a big difference in your avg. IT mob damage, or is it just good for solo? thanks in advance ^^:handsdown

[Jonnyram]

Personally, I don't think anything is worth 6 million in this game. Think about how many hours you have to hunt to get that amount of cash!

[Tomoh]

The only way I'm ever gonna get this sword is if I bid 600,000 and the person has made a mistake by leaving out a 0.

[Chucklez_1]

Yeah...it's too expensive despite that that weapon is really nice. Atm...it's just for status.

[BlueFire]

I've seen a total of one person on Ragnarok with this weapon. Not surprising, this person was wearing a MasterMind pearl. :sweat:

[Synbios]

RDM/NIN with Enhancing Sword and Joyeuse = :handsdown

[Vinen]

Soon as I get 6million and or it drops off Bune (would require us getting him T_T) im going to buy it.

[MMan530]

In reply to your question: yes. That sword is awesome. I wouldn't go purchase it if you can kill the NM that drops it or if it'd cost you vital spells/equipment, but yes- there's a reason that its selling for 6 mil.

[Vinen]

That sword is the only weapon that makes it worth meleeing as a RDM.

[BlueFire]

Question: Anyone know how the latent effects on the thing activate?

[Vinen]

have a enspell on you.

[Patchinko]

Originally posted by Synbios
RDM/NIN with Enhancing Sword and Joyeuse = :handsdown This is my ultimate goal in this game. It's like my FFXI "BigBoss" status.^^

[Deodorant]

Eh ... I'd rather have Joyeuse in main, Kraken Club in offhand. Super TP build for mass savage blade, Style points +517,427,133, and the +18 dmg or so damage from en-spell activates on every kraken club hit, so I'd guess damage would possibly be at least equal to enhancing+joyeuse.

[Patchinko]

Haha, people saying "Enhancing is too expensive" and you say "get a kraken club!" That's awesome.

I saw someone running around the tower slapping everything in a few swings with kraken a few weeks ago. It was beautiful (though I was annoyed that all my mobs got whacked ; ;)

[Izual]

Enhance sword is almost as rare of a drop as kraken club heh, I've killed Bune like 15 times and nothing but wyvern skins. Maybe my LS is just unlucky with him though.

[Patchinko]

From what I've heard of Bune's drop rate, it sounds like you're not outside of the ordinary. ; ;

[BlueFire]

Originally posted by Vinen
have a enspell on you.

Wow. That's awesome. I want one so bad.

[DrMrLordX]

Why use Enhancing Sword + Joyeuse? Why not . . . Enhancing Sword + Kraken Club? *P

muahahah

[Oro]

Joyeuse's double attack activates very frequently.. VERY frequently. You can time your spells so your landing hits while casting magic (same as kraken).

I personally prefers Joyeuse's funtionality over enhancing sword (or do I say that because I dont have the later ^^;) because of the above reason. I also gave up hunting Bune because Joyeuse is sooo cool.

Enhancing Sword's value is based on its rarity, I hardly see the extra damage being any better than what Joyeuse can do

[Discordian]

Our LS tackled Bune a number of times and we pulled 3 Enhancing Swords off of Bune so far. Its a very nice weapon but in no way makes a rdm a huge damage dealer against ITs. Maybe near Paladin at best becase we miss a lot with our sword skill.

Its 4.5 - 5 million on midgard right now and it is rare. We don't try to own the Bune mob spawn just play with it if its up, our ls doesn't own Bune and neither does anyone else. Unlike popular hnm ls belief.

[Patchinko]

Seems to be bling more than anything. I don't see it on any RDMs fighting Behemoths, for example.^^;

[macross_sdf1]

No way it's worth the 4-6m. It's just a trophy. They should have made the stupid thing rare/ex like joyeuse.

There's this taru rdm that bought a scorpion harness for 7m hehe.

If I was gonna spend that money it would be on a kraken club, but those go for 10million on my server.

Kraken and joyeuse are both > enhancing sword anyhow, with kraken being the best by far. Huge huge dps boost with it.

For those that don't know what a kraken club is, it's a weapon that lets you swing 2-8x more, so you build up tp hella fast 300% in under a minute easy. Plus looks cool with en spell effects going off every second. If you got a joyeuse too then you can get an extra hit in as well. Well gotta sub ninja to dual wield of course.

[jenovabldrb]

ya just today i saw a rdm with an enhancing sword. he had his title blanked out so i couldn't see what lvl he was or anything but it was kind of weird cause he had the sword, then all low level stuff in like the 30's.

[Dierdre]

The problem with the kraken is the TP gain on the mob. I use enhancing/joy dual when hitting RDM/NIN because the +8 ACC and +16 ATK spill over onto the weak joy sword. Even on many VT+ mobs I can keep up with well equipped primary melees ... then again, my equipment is as follows:

Optical Hat, Spectacles, Assault Jerkin, Ogre Ledelsens +1, Dusk Gloves, Dusk Trousers, Sarashi, Amemit Mantle +1, Ruby Ring, Serket Ring, Dual Phantom Earrings, Phantom Tathlum, Enhancing Sword, and Joyeuse.

That's a crapload of haste and +ATK/STR/ACC wrapped up into one nice package.

If you want to be a god fighting Adamantoise/Aspidochelone, play RDM like this supporting your party while TPing like crazy for the Spirits spam on the HNM ... odds are you'll pull hate off the tank, so make sure your utsusemi is up ;)

[Sickeness]

Wow, good job bringing up old ass thread just so you can brag about how uber l33t you are n00b.

RDM/NIN melee on a HNM? lol

I'm sure you are so uber that you can pulll hate off a lvl 75 tank when a fully equipped DRK or RNG can't.....

Lemme guess, I bet you can tank fafnir also right?

Airspirit, Why don't you go back to Allakazam and post more lame guides where all the lvl 30's can believe that an "uber-melee RDM" such as yourself and you can outdamage a primary melee.

[Dierdre]

With full HP gear I pull off 680 Spirits damage every minute and a half while handling adds and keeping the mages up. Is this a bad thing?

Obviously you've never faced the turtles before. Spirits Within is THE way to kill them fast.

[Apple Pie]

With full HP gear I pull off 680 Spirits damage
Sounds great. You have 1,450 HP with your full HP gears, don't you? Do you mind posting what you have? I'm curious about how you get +370 HP from your gears with RDM/BLM (or do you sub MNK for this?).

In addition, I'm wondering how you get 300% TP every 90 seconds. You get 6% TP from each hit with Joyeuse and in order to get 300% TP, it has to hit them 50 times.

As you know, DA of Joyeuse isn't always triggered although it frequently (= 50%, the same as Ridill) activates. Without Haste, you can only swing it [(4,500 / 224) x 1.5] = 30 times and even with Haste, you can do it [{(4,500 / 224) x 1.5} x 1.25] = 37.5 = 37 times.

Suppose you sub NIN and have Joyeuse, Hornet Needle, Sarashi (-1% delay of DW), and Suppanomimi (-5% delay of DW).

Note: Do not buy Sarashi. It's useless lol

Weapon Delay
(150 + 226) x 0.79 (due to Sarashi and Suppanomimi) = 297.04

Chance to swing with Haste
[{(4,500 / 297.04) x 1.25} x 2] = 37.8 = 38 times.
Adding DA of Joyeuse, it is 38 + {(38 / 2) x 0.5} = 47 times.

Conclusion
I'm sorry to say you have no chance to get 300% TP every minute and a half. Although your hit rate is 100%, you only get {(19 x 5%) + (28 x 6%)} = 263%. If you dual wield Joyeuse and Enhancing Sword, you get less than this.

For those of you don't know how to calculate the damage of Spirits Within, here it is.

TP100%: HP x 1/8
TP200%: HP x 3/16
TP300%: HP x 15/32

You can easily verify this, can't you? :)

Oh, OK. So, you're Airspirit of Allakhazam but are you the same person to have stated "Got 7,000 XP/hour" and "A taru RDM who has only 6 STR less than hume RDM does absolute crap for damage" here (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37200&perpage=14&pagenumber=1)? I'm a little disappointed then. Maybe you should post the statiscs taken by the parser/FFrep or should post the movie to help us to understand what you're doing.

[Dierdre]

When gaining TP at turtle I also have the advantage of the raptors pounding on me to give fast TP ... which the defense of the dusk gear helps with, and combined with Phalanx they only do about 15 damage per hit while adding 2.5 TP per hit and they hit FAST. As for the rest, I also drop another 3% haste with dusk gloves, but only use them on raptors while using the ogres on the peryton (better DPS for some reason). The advantage of a RDM here is that I can take the hits from these adds easily and can solo them easily where many other jobs don't have that ability (phalanx is king here). Why have a PLD tank them and take 30-35 damage a hit when I take 15-20? Since nobody is using their TP on these mobs and nobody is nuking the hell out of them there is nothing to take the hate off of me after a few hits ... and lots of 45+19-25 hits very fast (I normally get off 5-8 in the time a DRK or DRG swings once) holds a crapload of hate on you.

Once I get ready to Spirits all HP->MP gear gets pulled and the fun stuff like BQ rings go on pumping HP to around 1450 (and incidentally my MP to around 550) and I connect with WS. Then afterwards I drop back into my MP/Attack gear and start the process over. Incidentally, the drop in MP doesn't matter since that is about the amount I use casting refresh on that support party and dropping the cure bomb to fill up during the MP->HP swap.

And no, there is more than a 6 STR difference. If you believe the allakhazam stat calculators (in which not one stat is within 3 points of accurate, particularly HP/MP which are well over 150 off on each) then ... well ... yeah. As for what damage difference even 6 STR can make try on some STR gear on some VT/IT next time you face them and see the difference. My melee damage goes up around 30-40% when dropping on melee gear rather than mage gear ... STR is the one thing RDMs lack for punch.

And really ... you've never got 7KXP/hr? On aura statues in sky we've popped chain 9 (no additional bonus after 5, but continuous 5 bonuses are sexah) with PLD/RNG/RNG/RNG/BRD/RDM for over 8.5K/hr. In three man elemental hunting parties I've done up to 4K/hr in an exceptional hour (my current merit farming system ... making 140K/hr while getting a merit every few hours is just unreal) ... if you've never seen 7K/hr then I'm sorry for your loss.

[Apple Pie]

When gaining TP at turtle I also have the advantage of the raptors pounding on me to give fast TP ... which the defense of the dusk gear helps with, and combined with Phalanx they only do about 15 damage per hit while adding 2.5 TP per hit and they hit FAST.
Interesting. I'm sure you ate Attack+ foods to increase your firepower but you only took (42 - 27) = 15 damage. I'm still taking around 30 - 40 damage from EP Orcish FKs with 420 defence and Phalanx (it should cut 23.6 damage with my skill). I'm going to see how much I will take from those raptors (LV66 - 69) when I reach LV75.
As for what damage difference even 6 STR can make try on some STR gear on some VT/IT next time you face them and see the difference.
Excuse me but I've already done tons of experiments. FFrep shows there's almost no difference in average damage against EM/T orcs between +6 (Spike Necklace + Taru RSE golves) STR and nothing. I as well as those of us here who know how the actual damage is calculated are sure the advantage is going to be even less than that when we face with stronger creatures.

I can anytime take the statistics with FFrep and show you a proof but there's already the one here to show +6 STR did nothing. There was an Elvann RDM50/DRG25 soloing M5-1 before I did and his average melee damage (excluding critical hits) against Archlich Taber'quoan was 60.3 (http://www5.sppd.ne.jp/grendal/FF11/M5-1-02.gif). Then, a taru RDM50/DRK25 who has exactly the same gears except for RSE gloves and boots did 59.5 (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46660) on average.

For your reference,

Elvaan RDM50/DRG25: STR 53
Tarutaru RDM50/DRK25: STR 42
Taru RSE gloves and boots gives me +5 STR

On aura statues in sky we've popped chain 9 (no additional bonus after 5, but continuous 5 bonuses are sexah) with PLD/RNG/RNG/RNG/BRD/RDM for over 8.5K/hr.
Sounds cool but there are only 10 of them (I think you're referring to where Ulikumimi shows up) and they repop every 16 minutes. To get 5th or more chains, you're only allowed to have 70 seconds including the time for pulling them. I'm not trying to say you're lying but without any proof, noone trusts you like this old thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37200&perpage=14&pagenumber=1).

[AtraposBLM]

Don't mess with Apple Pie.

7k exp/hour? I don't buy it either. Screenshots...anyone?

[Deodorant]

More than 5-6k per hour depends on how many rangers you have in PT, really. A good friend of mine has a set PT that shoots for chain 9/10 the way normal PTs shoot for chain 5/6. Gets a lot better at 74 when RNGs can say fuck hate control and let loose with no worries of taking damage.

[Dierdre]

That's exactly right, Deoderant: the paladin is there for pulling, backup healing, and emergency control. After the first half of the fight the PLD never has aggro anymore ... the rangers just trade it around blinking. I imagine this method of XP gain will die after the Utsusemi nerf though since their AOEs will wipe the ranger's buffs.

As for the ulli room add up the time for each kill in a chain 9 and then compare it to the spawn rate of the mobs there. They pop as fast as you kill them. Another good place is the approach to the Celestial Nexus if you have a good pulling system, though there is are two less pops than the ulli room.

And I don't know what credibility issues you mean, honestly. A properly equipped RDM can at almost all points in their career do good melee damage on top of their mage duties. This is one reason I started refusing to party with Dragoons: it was rare to find one that could do more melee damage than me in combat on most things ... not just low def targets ... and nothing was more hilarious than levelling off of cocks in kuftal at 72 and having the two RDMs in the group (RDM/RDM/BRD/NIN/SAM/DRG) outdamaging both the SAM and the DRG (both were using enhancing swords) ... though the SAM was able to pull through in the end solely due to WS damage while we never could build TP due to weapon swaps (not a biggie anyway, since our WS at that point are terrible). Ironically, when you looked at the logs, our bursts from eq. swaps almost made up that difference too.

If you're using +STR gear to overcome the gap then more power to you, honestly. Most people don't bother and then wonder why they can't do the damage of other races.

(I eat defense foods for that fight, since my attack power isn't really necessary ... meleeing the turtle is utterly retarded as the AOEs you'll cause aren't worth the minimal damage melees do, so you focus on TP building mobs like the raptors that are all over that zone ... when you go to test you'll need to also keep an eye on your VIT penalty).

As for XP, if you assume that all of the statues that pop in the ulli room are the lowest level that spawns in that range and you can pop a chain 9 that is about 2100 XP in 18 minutes. At the high end of their level range that is 2700 XP in 18 minutes. And by the 18 minutes are up your spawns are going strong in the ulli room again. I do this all the time, so it amuses me when people say that these things are impossible do so. I guess Deoderant is making chain 9 up too ... but if he's not then you're looking at between 21-2700 XP in around 18 minutes.

BTW, you can do the same thing with raptors in VoS, lizards in Terrigan, onions in Boyahda, Processionaires, crabs everywhere, etc. All it takes is a good party. I know a ranger that went from 1-75 in under a month by running in a static that had the capability of putting out these kind of numbers. I guess he was making up his 75 RNG job too. Good players + good equipment + good tactics = obscene XP, and this is why even many hardcore NA players I know put "JP ONLY - (please) (/check)" in their search comments: it doesn't matter that they don't even know how to say hello in japanese, once they get checked they get invited. They do it to avoid people that firmly believe that good XP is unachievable.

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by Dierdre

and nothing was more hilarious than levelling off of cocks in kuftal at 72 and having the two RDMs in the group (RDM/RDM/BRD/NIN/SAM/DRG) outdamaging both the SAM and the DRG (both were using enhancing swords)

You're comparing yourself to a poorly equipped melee, which says very little.

It's like competing against children as an adult.

If the SAM and DRG were well equipped with their million dollar items, they would outdamage any RDM.

Please remember, you are a red MAGE not a red WARRIOR.

Your job is to enfeeble, refresh and burst.

We don't need you up on the front lines getting spammed by the mobs aoe's or getting HP drained when fighting bones, because you're trying to prove some point.

Know your role.

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by Sickeness
Wow, good job bringing up old ass thread just so you can brag about how uber l33t you are n00b.

RDM/NIN melee on a HNM? lol

I'm sure you are so uber that you can pulll hate off a lvl 75 tank when a fully equipped DRK or RNG can't.....

Lemme guess, I bet you can tank fafnir also right?

Airspirit, Why don't you go back to Allakazam and post more lame guides where all the lvl 30's can believe that an "uber-melee RDM" such as yourself and you can outdamage a primary melee.

This man deserves a pat on the back.

Again dierdre, know your role.

You are there for enfeeble, refresh and burst.

We do not need you giving the mob TP because you want to prove some point. Check the superiority complex at the door.

Thank you.

[neighbortaru]

I put my money on Apple Pie.

[Shiia]

Although I have seen many Airspirit's posts, I still cannot agree with rdm being a viable job to melee. I would rather chose a job dedicated to that. Perhaps she can gain 7k per hour. So what? Some people are happy with their 3k, maybe 4k per hour. Many people become overburned with this game to rushing too much on what they do.

Apple Pie has posted many reps, proof videos of what he did. MOre than enough to earn his respect and trust. In this forum, I am thinking he is the most versatile, and challenge seeker of the entire RDM comunity. Not many have managed to win the mission 5-1 alone, not many did faced dragon mission alone and lived. Things like this wich some people thought impossible to do he has shown the comunity that it can be done.

I don't think anyone would disagree with what he is saying. Perhaps he still have some places yet to explore... but thats not the point eighther...

[Aurege]

mikasa is intimidated by mages.
need i bring up old threads too?:p
---
anyway i dont see a point in rdms meleeing after 30 or so cause its basicly giving the mob *free* tp. its also not worth the rdm taking dmg from the area attacks that they help create so it also wastes mp. and i really dont have the mp to waste on meleeing rdms, especially after patch; unless of course they lower avatar mp slip

*we all know that there's always a catch to something free

[Apple Pie]

As for XP, if you assume that all of the statues that pop in the ulli room are the lowest level that spawns in that range and you can pop a chain 9 that is about 2100 XP in 18 minutes.
The lowest one is at LV81, +6 LV higher than the PT of LV75. Even if you get 9th chain, you only get 1,527 XP in total... In order to get 2,100 XP in 18 minutes, all statues you face have to be at the highest LV (= LV84). Great. How lucky you were. All statues you fought for 60 minutes were the highest ones.
Another good place is the approach to the Celestial Nexus if you have a good pulling system, though there is are two less pops than the ulli room.
And those statues in front of the Celestial Nexus are even weaker; the lowest: LV79 and the highest: LV80. Although your puller is smart enough to control the chain, you only get 1,336 XP in total after 9th chain; therefore, no chance to get 7,000 XP in an hour there.

I don't fully agree with Mikasa but I have to agree with this.

You're comparing yourself to a poorly equipped melee, which says very little.

The skill gap between A+ and B at LV75 is 26. Even though both a paladin and red mage has the same weapon, a red mage has 26.0 less attack and 23.4 less accuracy than a paladin. Even if she/he dual wields Enhancing Sword and Joyeuse, RDM/NIN can't even outperform well-equipped NIN/WAR with Fudo or Mamushito +1 who can get 25%+ attack from Berserk and +10 Attack Trait. Joyeuse is a nice weapon but there's a little more difference between D35 (n/9 = 3) and D36+ (n/9 = 4) weapons other than these base damage.

Then, outdamaging DRG? I don't find any way to outdamage DRG + Mikan. DRG isn't alone.
Most people don't bother and then wonder why they can't do the damage of other races.
Why don't you bring us any statistics taken in the game comparing average damage between hume and taru with exactly the same equipments?

STR does a lot when you're MNK since hand-to-hand damage is more dependent on STR. When you face with weaker mobs, boosting STR helps to increase your average damage but against T/VT/ITs, "+6" STR do nothing. It only gives you +3 (6/2) attack. Sure, if you have, let's say, +20 STR, you'll see an improvement.

[Rogan]

what're the stats on this thing?

[Apple Pie]

this is why even many hardcore NA players I know put "JP ONLY - (please) (/check)" in their search comments: it doesn't matter that they don't even know how to say hello in japanese, once they get checked they get invited. They do it to avoid people that firmly believe that good XP is unachievable.
Please DO NOT take advantage of our people to prove your theory. I am Japanese unfortunately.

Shall I copy and paste all your posts here on our forum at livedoor (http://jbbs.livedoor.com/game/1578/) (aka "Shitaraba") where there are thousands of hardcore Japanese players?

I'm afraid if all you get from our people is,

"脳内w"

[Mikasa]

Originally posted by Aurege
mikasa is intimidated by mages.
need i bring up old threads too?:p


First of all, that statement has nothing to do with what this topic is about.

I am calling dierdre's bluff because I am on the same server as she is, and I have partied with her before, and it was 3 hours of hell.

Finally myself and the tank left because we couldn't stand her anymore.

All melee RDM's do is give the mob TP, get hit by aoe which makes the WHM waste more mana curing, and take up space for setting up the fuidama.

Originally posted by Apple Pie

Please DO NOT take advantage of our people to prove your theory. I am Japanese unfortunately.

Shall I copy and paste all your posts here on our forum at livedoor (aka "Shitaraba") where there are thousands of hardcore Japanese players?

I'm afraid if all you get from our people is,

"脳内w"

I don't know what that means, but I can comment on the relations with japanese on our server and they not good.

They cheat and steal all the time.

Part of the reason they do this is because they don't like it that we provide HNM competition and they're sour. Well, unfortunately that's too damn bad.

I personally do not accept invites or party with any japanese players, due to personal bad experiences with them, and i am positive there are plenty of japanese who feel the same way about me.

It's better to just not associate with them because it just causes more problems.

[Deodorant]

Originally posted by Mikasa

I am calling dierdre's bluff because I am on the same server as she is, and I have partied with her before, and it was 3 hours of hell.

Finally myself and the tank left because we couldn't stand her anymore.
Just felt like quoting it ;3

[Apple Pie]

this is why even many hardcore NA players I know put "JP ONLY - (please) (/check)" in their search comments: it doesn't matter that they don't even know how to say hello in japanese, once they get checked they get invited. They do it to avoid people that firmly believe that good XP is unachievable.
I commented on this, Mikasa. Especially, on the last sentence.

They do it to avoid people (like Grendal) that firmly believe that good XP is unachievable.

Dierdre seemed to take advantage of the word, "Japanese" to argue against me but I am Japanese who have been playing this game for almost two years. Therefore, I'm not fooled by that, nor do all our people unless there's a proof to show "8.5K XP/h" or something.

I don't have any intention to compare Japanese players to North American players. There are good and rich players in French and NA community as far as I know on Gilgamesh servers. There are a lot of stupid players in our community and vice versa.

[Sickeness]

What I find the most sad about this is that Dierdre/Airspirit writes guides for Allakazam and basically just goes and tells newbs who read there and don't know any better how awesome he is and how he is basically the best RDM ever. He's pretty much obsessed with himself and he thinks there is an army of haters out there trying to "rate down" his posts and discredit him when he has given no proof to any of his claims whatsoever.

I always had suspicions about deirdre's claims but Applepie has pretty much proved him to be a liar through statistical analysis and mikasa is on the same server as him and says he sucks.

I mean come on, 8/9k XP an hour regularly?

I read his post and I thought in my head if I was in a PT fighting genbu or asp. I imagined a RDM up at the frontlines fighting it with nin sub while 2 adds are beating away at the RDM. Then I could imagine the panicked, terrified looks of all the other mages in the pt.

I then chuckled aloud to myself.
I mean come on, doesn't anyone in here who has actually FOUGHT a HNM before find it to be funny in the least the thought that a RDM could melee a super high def HNM while having 2 adds on them AND pull aggro off the tanks in full +enmity gear.....?

hehe

[Deodorant]

http://www.waterdoggy.com/lj/aaadaman.jpg
This is me tanking Adaman ;3

Low lvl old-school HNMs like Adaman, Behe, Serket are wusses, if you're high lvl enough you can fool around and do stupid stuff like souleater adaman and just let the whm's cure bomb you (like above) ;3

The harder HNMs are a strictly stay away and cast strategy tho ;3 ...

[Dierdre]

As I said, this is used for the turtles, not for other mobs. While a RDM alliance of 18 RDM/BLM, RDM/WHM, RDM/SMN could potentially take down Fafnir/Nidhogg/King Behemoth it wouldn't be nearly as efficient as a balanced alliance ... what's the point? We're better off doing our casting roles. On turtles, and particularly Aspid, if you set up your alliance right then it is a good thing for your secondary RDMs (one RDM in main party for strict casting/support, others in allied parties for party support and TP gain) to use swords and build for Spirits spam. This is the same reason why WAR/NIN will use swords and DRKs normally go DRK/NIN with swords: Spirits Within is the most effective damage dealing weapon that you have ... unless you count on BLMs to go suicidal on you. It frees the BLMs to nuke only during the "head in" times so they don't build enough hate to get instakilled by the turtle at random intervals. Having 5+ Spirits and 3+ Sidewinders going off as soon as that turtle's head is out is priceless.

The question appears to be whether or not it can be done, and the answer is yes. Is it a good thing if you can keep your support role up for your party? That's a yes too. What's the argument about here, really?

Oh, and for the outdamaging argument it is quite simple: I consider the Haste spell no different than the job abilities of any melee out there. Hence, for every time Mikasa swings his scythe or greatsword, I get in 2.3 salvos on my pair of swords. Even without any melee damage whatsoever that comes out to between 80-140 damage. Then the melee stacks on top. Further, with maxed enhancing gear and INT gear at the time of casting the enspell I get very few resists (except on pots and other magic resistant mobs) if I use the correct element. Is it really hard to believe that a RDM/NIN can outdamage a direct melee job? Especially on most HNMs were I to pump up the +ACC gear I could outdamage most any direct melee strictly because of enspell damage ... however that would be a retarded way to add insane TP to it and the reason that my LS doesn't use melee on HNMs at all with the exception of Rangers and the PLDs. Now, with RDM/BLM (the sub both RDMs in that party used) and with the limitation that I don't have the fun additional haste gear and dual wield enhancement (much of this isn't available at this point) I still get in 2-2.4 hits each time the DRK or DRG hits. That's between 50-60 enspell damage alone in the time the direct melees hit before melee damage (an additional 70-100 damage). Note that I also mentioned levelling off of cocks, a mob not known for their defensive traits. It's all about choosing the target.

Do I melee on bones? Hell no. Tigers? Nope. Manticores? Are you kidding??? It's about playing smart. Playing to your strengths to the benefit of your party in each situation is what the RDM job is all about.

What many people don't look at is actual damage over time accumulated rather than focusing on per hit damage. It's all well and good that the DRK is hitting EP mobs for 230-300 damage and laugh at my 60-80+20-25 damage per hit ... but neglect to notice that I'm landing between 4-8 of them for each hit of yours. Same goes on VT-IT mobs where you're hitting for 100-180 and I'm hitting that number of times for 15-30+15-25 damage. DOT is what red mages are all about. My LS DRK has equipment that most DRKs only can dream of, but in many situations I can pull hate off of him with nothing but melee. Note: my situation is just like his in that when I melee I pull out all stops ... when I melee the only way to tell I'm a RDM main is to check my weaponry and note the Enhancing Sword. Were I to melee in my AF I wouldn't have half the results in damage output.

As for you, Mikasa, the situation you described never happened. Ever. Any other misinformation you'd like to post? I'm still waiting for you and your idiot buddies to announce that we trained Kirin on you as you guys were a hit away from killing Nidhogg or some insane lunacy (the fact that both parts of that are impossible is completely beside the point but keeping in line with other insane accusations you've all made, but I digress). I would agree, however, that the JP/NA relations on our server are completely and utterly screwed. While FN has been working with the NA HNMLS, the newest two have resorted to botting with their full alliances to win pulls seconds before the mob appears to NA players or just plain stealing/MPKing if they weren't there in force to take the pull once the rest of their people arrived. Things will get bloody for BF very soon.

Further note: nothing in what I say detracts from the other parts of doing your job correctly. Two macros plus the swapping in the spell itself can completely convert you from full melee to full debuffing/nuking/resting/whatever. Thinking that a RDM is a melee player in all situations is utterly absurd ... but only as absurd as the concept that a RDM is nothing but a mage in all situations.

[loh989]

Kaio :thumbsup: lmao if u know what i mean

[Apple Pie]

I consider the Haste spell no different than the job abilities of any melee out there.
You're not comparing your RDM/NIN to DRK under the same condition and this isn't considered to be a legitimate comparison.

Dark knights as well as you are able to equip Dusk Gloves and Dusk Ledelsens that give them total +5% to Haste. If someone casts Haste on them, DRK/WAR, for example, is able to store 100+% TP per minute when their GS or Scythe doesn't miss the target at all.

Death Scythe (D97, Delay 528)
(3,600 / 528) x 1.175 = 8.01136... = 8
Total 8 hits per minute
TP stored is: [(528 + 480) / 80] x 8 = 100.8

This means they can spam their strong Scythe WS every minute, sometimes with Berserk, Soul Eater and Warcry while you're storing 166.96875% TP with your Enhancing Sword and Joyeuse.

As a result, although regular attacks including en- spells of RDM/NIN might be stronger (only on the best case), I'm afraid if RDM/NIN cannot pull the hate off from them and if total damage (including everything) of RDM/NIN isn't better than that of DRK.

I, as one of RDMs, would respect what you're doing and I'm glad if we can really outdamage attacker jobs but again, without any proof comparing these two jobs under the same condition, I as well as most of us here don't trust you . Anyway, I'm going to bring this topic to RDM forum at Shitaraba to ask if someone can take rep.

Well, I'm curious what happens if well-equipped DRK/NIN has Company Sword (D54 when a PT consists of 6 people) and Ridill (I sometimes see a few of them in Ballista). They store their TP as fast as RDM/NIN but they have access to Vorpal Blade and their raw attack is 38+ (48 - 10) higher.

[loh989]

a drk/nin with woodvile's and ridill with some haste and enhance duel gear:eek: then you have souleater, switch that around and use spirit

war can do the same exact thing even stronger except no souleater.

RDM is a very adaptable job but common don't say bull like rdm being a DD.

[Viev]

just my 2 cents.

6k+ xp/hour is achievable. Just dependant on how many rngs you have in your party.

I have out hated other melees before with joyeuse. Although this was never in an xp situation.

Melee Rdm... is viable but I seriously doubt that it does more damage then what you could be doing by resting enough to MB ever single fight. Thunder III on a light burst on Aura Statues is like ~700-800 damage (if you have the proper gear). I doubt the Aura Statue would last long enough for you to melee it for that amount of damage.

[Apple Pie]

Well, there're actually a lot of people claiming 6K+ XP/h (some claimes 7K+) at KRT with the PT (LV71-72) consisting of PLD/MNK*2/RDM/WHM/BRD when there isn't any other PT out there. Therefore, I'm not surprised to see that.

Even at Boyahda Trees, we can still get 6K+ with multiple RNGs like this (http://www5.sppd.ne.jp/grendal/FF11/rng2.wmv) (it only takes us 40 - 50 seconds to kill each one of them) if we have no competitors (That never happens unfortunately...) around since flies are weak against piercing weapons.

However, something like 8.5K/h is theoretically and realistically impossible at the Ulikimimi room. For the PT of LV75, less XP (7.000 XP/h is the highest even with 9th chain achieved as I stated) from each statue and for the PT of LV71-73, more XP but almost no chance to kill strongest ones in 70 seconds (including the time for pulling them).

Oh well, I don't care who gets how much XP. It's their business, not mine but I don't trust something like a fairy tale either if no proof is given.

[Zania]

Meh for KRT I perferred BLM on WHMs spot. Light with paladin+2 monk 3 step or Fusion with just 2 monks + firaga burst chopped things down really fast. I do believe we were getting ~6.5k exp until our paly leveled and even after that exp was very good.

I wont buy 8.5k exp tho, especially not on those golems. They are good exp, no doubt there, but in my experience you just cant kill them fast enough to get anywhere near that exp consistantly (I mean over long run, not kill one golem with WSes in 1 min, get 200 exp for it and claim that well I can get 60*200=12k exp per hour)

As for original topic...I love my enhancing sword, but I wouldnt have payed 6 mil for it. Joyeuse is almost as good for most thing (for some better), and is much easier to get (we killed Chary with thf/nin, brd/whm, rdm/blm and whm/rdm and whm got to slack off pretty much entire fight, other than me creating distortion chain with thief and bursting with blizzard3 then taking ~700 damage from chary in one round).

As a LS, we are about 2/10 on Bune, and I do think we are damn lucky.

Zania

[Deodorant]

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45535

No, I don't know who those people are.

Assuming a 16 minute respawn, and chain 9 every time, that would be 7-8k per hour, no? ;3

[Apple Pie]

Assuming all the statues we meet there are the strongest ones (LV84). For the PT of LV75,

Initial: 154
Chain #1: 184
Chain #2: 192
Chain #3: 200
Chain #4: 215
Chain #5: 231
Chain #6 - #9: 231

Total: 2,100

Theoretically, they are able to get maximum 6,300 XP in 48 (16 x 3) minites.

The problem is unless we spend enough time on the initial one to chain #4 so that chain #9 can be done exactly in 16 minutes, we can't keep up with it. So, let's say:

Initial: 122 seconds
Chain #1: 122 seconds
Chain #2: 122 seconds
Chain #3: 122 seconds
Chain #4: 122 seconds
Chain #5: 70 seconds
Chain #6 - #9: 280 (70 x 4) seconds

Total: 960 seconds = 16 minutes

According to this, we can get another chain #5 (= total 1,176 XP) in 12 (60 - 48) minute . Therefore, the total XP in an hour is supposed to be 7,476.

However, this is the very best case as I state on the first sentence because those statues at that room are LV81 - LV84.

Oh well, I know having some rangers is great but then, how stressful it is for one bard to sing Archer's Prelude on 3+ rangers while singing other songs （´_�`） Without the song, Sidewinder / Slagshot sometimes misses +9 LV ITs with less than 150% TP.