Monster Signa or elemental Staff?

[Yukk]

Which would you recommend for a brd/whm?

[Aniga]

Both. Macro in the Signa for Threnody/Elegy/Lullaby/Requiem, and macro in the Light Staff for Cure III.

Assuming you can only afford one, Signa.

[Rekiem]

Im tempted into buying a Earth staff to go with Minstrel earring. Darksteel Harness and maybe a Jelly ring. Could try some funny stuff D:

[vinwcc]

This come from Jp website: http://bdbk.s41.xrea.com/verification/0006.html

75/37 Bard/whm tested Lullaby on Aura Statue 20 times

Light Staff 14 success, 2 resist, 4 sleep last half duration
Without Light Staff 5 success, 8 resist, 7 sleep last half duration

This come from :http://bdbk.s41.xrea.com/verification/0004.html

73/36 Bard/whm (singing skill 219 , wind 218, base cha 68)
tested Lullaby on Aura Butler 50 times each in different skill level and char.


singing229・wind232・CHR+34：success rate76%(38/50)
singing219・wind232・CHR+34：success rate78%(39/50)
singing229・wind219・CHR+34：success rate70%(35/50)
singing219・wind219・CHR+34：success rate70%(35/50)
singing219・wind232・CHR+00：success rate56%(28/50)
singing224・wind219・CHR+00：success rate50%(25/50)
singing219・wind219・CHR+00：success rate48%(24/50)
singing229・wind232・CHR+34：success rate88%(44/50) Light day
singing229・wind232・CHR+34：success rate72%(36/50) Dark day


wind219
CHR050(-18) 44%
CHR060(-08) 50%
CHR070(+02) 50%
CHR080(+12) 54%
CHR090(+22) 60%
CHR100(+32) 72%
CHR110(+42) 74%
CHR125(+57) 74%

wind232
CHR070(+02) 60%
CHR080(+12) 66%
CHR090(+22) 76%
CHR100(+32) 78%
CHR109(+41) 74%

[maytrix]

And to point to all that science crap is...?

[Shamaru]

Those elemental staffs have hidden effects. One is it reduces elemental spell mp usage, included avatar (Fire staff > Ifrit, Wind staff > Garuda, so and so). Another effect is it strengten elemental spells/songs. My BLM buddy informed me that he got 10-15% more dmg by swapping staves relate to his nuke.

For BRD, most of our offensive songs are Light base (Lullaby, Requiem). So Light staff would be most benifitial to our duty (not just +% cure). Thanks vinwcc for data confirmed that Light staff doess help on Lullaby (and it seems much more noticable than +4 more CHR from Signa ^^;; ). Another nice staff to have is Earth staff for help landing Elegy.

Just hope the price won't be jacked up before I could afford these staves >.<

[Bamce Sylph]

neat, i didn't know staves affected bard songs, thought it was only accual spells

[Rekiem]

I've been searching a little and on MysteryTour and Alakazham, they indicate that Elegy is a Light spell but when you look ingame, the icon is yellow/brown, meaning that its a earth spell. I'm confused, what element is Elegy? I don't wanna be using a staff that has no effect on it ._.

[Xerlic]

It's probably earth. I'd trust the game over a website. MysteryTour probably labelled it as light by mistake, and Ala prolly just copied them. But toting around an Earth staff just for one type of song? That's a lot of gil to spend just to increase the rate at which Elegy sticks. :p Granted, the staff could also be used when farming...that is to say if you actually farm as a bard.

[Faranim]

Elegy is Earth... the same element as Slow.

I know this because of the icon color, plus you can land it on Ramuh any time (good luck landing it on any of the other Primes).

It also magic bursts on a Dark Chain, so it's definately NOT light.

[Rekiem]

Yea this make sense. I'm going to send an email to those website, they are giving incorrect info >.>

[Kweh]

Hmm I had a Light Staff at one stage, hearing now that it helps land Light based songs , I may need to invest again.

[Bamce Sylph]

for now i would go lighstaff even without the information about it effecting songs it helps to monopolize on our minor mp total, since we all know we rarely have time to sit and rest a darkstaff is useless

[ProFoolie]

Has anyone run tests to see if the elemental staves increase the effectiveness of our songs, and not just the chance of landing. It seems like it should be simple enough, since we know CHA doesn't do anything in this regard, just run Minuet once with an appropriate elemental staff, and once without, then check numbers. I'll try to test this ingame today with Carol's and a borrowed ice/light/dark staff from my LS.

If we do get both a resist and effectiveness bonus from elemental staves, i'll sure be buying myself an earth staff for elegy. The effectiveness of that song is incredible, especially if you're playing with a blink tank.

[Bamce Sylph]

let me know pro, i was gonna ask the same thing, wonder how good a lightstaff would help towards minuet/madrigal etc (they're all light based right?)

[Vilurum]

If I'm remembering right, minuet is fire, minne is earth, madrigal is lightning, and mambo is wind. Paeons, ballads, requiems, lullabies, finale, all light. Elegies are earth, threnodies and carols are one of each element. Etudes are one of each element except dark. I forget what elements march and prelude are.

I think that covers all our useful and almost-useful songs.

[Kweh]

Could you imagine carrying a specific elemental staff AND instrument for each song played? We'd need a gobbiebag VIII :D

I purchased the Light Staff again last night, mainly focusing on its Lullaby landing, and it WAS more successful than when I had Signa. I had 5 out of 6 lullaby land. Requiem got resisted only once if I recollect aswell.

[Gbz]

I tried it on Peryton's (big birds in Valley of Sorrows) and it was 3/3 Resists ; ;. Maybe they have 100% resist to Requiem??

I have a light staff, +51chr, +10 windskill. :confused:

[ProFoolie]

Our guild BLM lent me a fire staff while we were farming Ose/skilling up today, the brief results:

Minuet 4 with +2 instrument, Monster Signa: +53 atk
Minuet 4 with +2 instrument, Fire staff +65 atk

didn't get to play with it any more, but there IS a numerical difference for using elemental staves

my next purachases:
Fire staff (Minuet)
Wind staff (Madrigal)
Earth staff (Elegy)
Light staff (Lullaby)
..... i miss having money

ps. I'm colorblind, so i likely got some of those elements wrong, please correct.

[Shamaru]

It's very interesting that Fire staff add like +22% ATK on Minuet. It might be difficult to check Wind staff vs. Madrigal effectiveness though. Anyhow do you mind carry some more test with Elegy ^^? I would rather know that it does help %slow and resist rate (thought just resist rate only is worth using it)

:gbz
As Peryton drops Light crystal, I assume they are strong to our Light Requiem and Lullaby as well ^^;; compare to Dark crystal mobs like ZV demons which I've never had any resists on Lullaby. Why don't you go test on some "neutral" mobs like Crab, Crawler or Fly ^^?

[Gbz]

we have to get all those staves too? :eek:

If they really make a huge diff., they might be worth it :)

"Why don't you go test on some "neutral" mobs like Crab, Crawler or Fly ^^?"

I sleep those pretty easily, pretty much 100% on those. I just thought Light Staff would make lullaby a little bit easier to land on mobs with high resist. I have yet to test it out in Tu'Lia though.

[Kweh]

I dont think i have ever successfully slept a Peryton. Even when I tried it with Soul Voice + Bewitching .

I'm gonna buy a Fire Staff aswell after hearing its results with Minuet.

I'm so glad Bards get to use these staves, they are some cool looking weapons.

[Gbz]

I meant Requiem ^^; but i have slept perytons before with little or no resists when it wasn't VT to me anymore.

I'm gonna test out Light Staff and Light carol to see if these staves are worth investing in to.

[Vilurum]

Note to self: borrow friend's earth staff, test minne, and if it boosts it, cry at the money I'll need for a set of elemental staves.

[Asao]

Earth Staff ---> Elegy

When fighting Lizards at RancorDen, I've noticed that I got less resists when using an Earth Staff. On one mob I got resisted 3 times in a row with a monster signa, whereas with the Earth Staff if I did get resisted, the second elegy would always stick.

Light Staff
This seems to maximize the lullaby sleep duration on IT mobs as I tested it out on links in RancorDen.
I also noticed a very high success rate for threnodies and requiem.

[Gbz]

Dark Carol is light element... and with light staff I got about 15points more for defense against dark. Dark threnody is also light and I landed it quite often on a NM in Tu'Lia (Faust). Before I cannot land any sort of threnody on it.

Heres a funny thing tho. Bewitching etude is light element but light staff didnt have an effect on it. Maybe they have no effect on increasing stat songs?

I dont think ill be getting all of them though. Most likely i will be getting staves for madrigal, mambo and elegy. The light staff is great, like a 2 for 1 deal. You can heal for more and land lullaby.

[Vilurum]

Well, stat songs give such a small boost that the increase from the staff may not be able to push it up another point.

[Bamce Sylph]

i think the only non offensive songs i've ever used are ballad, ballad2, minuet/madrigal, paeon has been replaced with seal/curaga, and regen, so i often just double ballad in downtime.

i think i need to get started in hardcore farming,

[Trizzy]

Our guild BLM lent me a fire staff while we were farming Ose/skilling up today, the brief results:

Minuet 4 with +2 instrument, Monster Signa: +53 atk
Minuet 4 with +2 instrument, Fire staff +65 atk

didn't get to play with it any more, but there IS a numerical difference for using elemental staves



I have not found there to be any bonus with fire staff after testing it with Minuet 3. Profoolie you did take into account that the fire staff has +10 attack and +4str? I think that explains your 12 attack boost ;) Take that into account before you run out and buy a fire staff!

I do however feel the light helps with Lullaby.:zzz: . In Castle Z today did not get 1 resist on the coffer key droppers.

[Asao]

Tested out ice staff...

With Sage etude it did not do anything

However with baraero, I noticed it gave an extra +15 pts to resists. My whm friend who I borrowed the staff from also tested baraero and it raised it by 15 pts as well. Im starting to wonder if the staves really do affect pt/self spells like minuet or madrigal.

[Sylvah]

That would be because ice staff has 15 wind resist.

I tested earth staff and carnage elegy in terms of actual song power. I couldn't be bothered to test duration or resist rate.

Base Sample: Some wasp in Rolanberry with no elegy or slow - 25 attacks in 100 seconds.

Same wasp with elegy without earth staff: 17 attacks in 100 seconds.

Same wasp with elegy with earth staff: 17 attacks in 100 seconds.

Same wasp with elegy and with slow: 15 attacks in 100 seconds.

I got bored and left before testing slow without elegy.

[Bamce Sylph]

could u try on somewhat tougher mobs? perhaps there is a limit to the amount of slow one mob can have one it, similar to the mitigation that eq implimented. perhaps against some mobs we're accually getting partial resist like instead of 50% slow, mobs are only getting 30% or something. regardless of findings with other staves i'll stillg et hte light one for healing and my limited mp pool

[ProFoolie]

I just realized that in my haste to conduct this test, i did in fact forget to include the +10 atk from the fire staff itself. (Like i said, i only briefly got a chance to use one, and so utterly failed to notice the stats of the staff itself) ::sigh::

it was a good dream while it lasted

[Aniga]

I tried with an Earth Staff and Minne, absolutely no change except for all the VIT changes I got. I don't think we're seeing any change with beneficial songs and elemental staves. Didn't test offensive songs, but the easiest way to do it would be to try Requiem with and without a Light Staff on a friend during a game of Ballista. Or Threnody with a specific staff and see if it debuffs a person's resists anymore during a game of Ballista. Anyone willing to give these a try, let us know the results!

[Vilurum]

I think it's fairly safe to assume, then, that they don't influence song power. So I'd be interested in seeing some statistical data about resistance rate. Say, 50 lullabies with Monster Signa vs. 50 lullabies with Light Staff vs. 50 lullabies with no special weapon, otherwise loaded down with a reasonable amount of +CHR, against the same VT+ enemy, not on light or dark day.

[_11of8]

Vilrum, read vinwcc's post on the first page. It proved for lullaby, a light bases song, that the Light staff increased effectivness of the song. It stands to reason that the other staffs would increase the chance of landing an offensive spell.

[Vilurum]

Yes, it does (though it was only on a sample of 20 lullabies, I wouldn't mind a bigger statistic). I then went on to run the source pages through a translator, and the same page that gave the lullaby + light staff info, had more extensive info on elegy + earth staff ... and curiously enough, the conclusion they came to was that it had no effect. :confused:

The other source page with all the CHR/skill data was a much more interesting read, though. Seems there's a limit to how much either will boost debuff success rate (they couldn't get past ~75% on their test enemy without day of the week lending a hand). Singing +skill doesn't help (only helps potency) but instrument +skill does help land debuffs, and that with more instrument +skill, you hit the limit with less +CHR. And you have a better success rate with no +CHR and more instrument +skill, compared with no +CHR and no instrument +skill.

/ponderponder

Well, I'm definitely going for +skill now, and I think I may sell my signa in favor of a Light Staff now, especially now that I can get more and more +CHR in other slots. (<3 Jester's Cape +1)

[Seeker_Onos]

Conclusions?

Light Staff > M. Signa for Lullaby and other light based songs?

Or all around CHR+ continues to rule the day?

I'm interested in borrowing my linkmate's Light Staff and singing a base of 50 songs with it to see if the durations on Paeon IV or Ballad II extend as a result...

and Fire Staff to see if that ups the [b]effect[b] of the Minuet's buff over a simliar test base.

Otherwise, I think I'll be crying for how much farming for beastseals I'll need to do for BCNMs... ; ;

[Kweh]

I feel like I've noticed a big change in resist rates when using the Light Staff, I havent failed a Lullaby for a long time. Maybe once since I have acquired the staff

[Trizzy]

I agree with Kweh. The 3 resists I have gotten with light staff and lullaby were because my rdm in my perma is uber and landed sleep or sleep II first.

Buy a Light Staff. It will help heals too!

There is nothing to show that any other elemental staves boost our songs from what I have read, seen, and personally experienced (and I tried them all). Drink the punch and grind for a light, but just say no to the other elementals. Good luck!

[Laehn]

+skill>all

Chr only effects resists slightly. Skill makes a dramatic increase and improves song potency as well.

Light staff pwnz though. It makes a considerably larger difference in party play than signa staff and is way nicer looking than that ugly broomstick. Wether or not it effects resists, its still a better buy imo. You get +1 to all stats and +10% cure potency right? How godly will curagas be then?!

[Sabin97124]

Broke down and got the Light Staff. (550K >.<) I Decided to try this baby out by tagging a lone with a Eld. Necro Coffer Key party. Whenever there was add/links, I used the lullby to handle it, and trust me, I had many, many chances to use it. Out of about 10 times when I had to do crowd control, either 1 link or up to 3 links, I didn't fail the sleep song onces.

So far I'm pretty happy with it. And because of the extra light damage it does, I was kicking some butt against the skeletons too. :)

[Sabin97124]

Broke down and got the Light Staff. (550K >.<) I Decided to try this baby out by tagging a lone with a Eld. Necro Coffer Key party. Whenever there was add/links, I used the lullby to handle it, and trust me, I had many, many chances to use it. Out of about 10 times when I had to do crowd control, either 1 link or up to 3 links, I didn't fail the sleep song onces.

So far I'm pretty happy with it. And because of the extra light damage it does, I was kicking some butt against the skeletons too. :)

[Sabin97124]

Sorry about the double post.. The server timed out on me for some reason.

[Trizzy]

Did 3 BCNM 60's

forgot to change out of my mp gear (astral rings, gold hairpin) for cha items (cha rings, noble's ribbon)

86 cha total

Light Staff + Mary's Horn for all sleeps

0 resists :zzz:

[Gbz]

The earth staff and light staff are working great. I get some resists here and there in dynamis (elegy and lullabies) compared to being resisted more than 60% of the time.

Tried it out as well against Hakutaku, about L80-85+ NM. Compared to other bards in the alliance that had Monster Signas, I landed Elegy more often than they did. You can't sleep Hakutaku, so I didnt bother trying that song on it.

Put down your monster signas and grab these staves :thumbsup:

[LockeCole]

Wow thnx for the advise. Gonna sell my signa for light staff this weekend, then find a way to get that earth staff. Although Signa does feel like a part of my AF now hehe ^^;. Same dusty look

[antony]

You're going to sell your signa to buy a Light Staff? What about threnodies? I was under the impression the two songs that are on the mob are Threnody and Elegy, so Requiem doesn't matter. The optimal situation would be a Signa and a Light Staff, but is it really worth it to sell the Signa?

[Laehn]

Lullaby is the most important enfeebling song for bards. Threnodies are situational. Light staff helps not only reduces resists more so than signa, it also gives +1 to all stats and will help with downtime (+10% cure potency). Signa staff cant do that.

[tnt118]

Originally posted by Vilurum
I think it's fairly safe to assume, then, that they don't influence song power. So I'd be interested in seeing some statistical data about resistance rate. Say, 50 lullabies with Monster Signa vs. 50 lullabies with Light Staff vs. 50 lullabies with no special weapon, otherwise loaded down with a reasonable amount of +CHR, against the same VT+ enemy, not on light or dark day.

Others are saying the same thing, but I'll put in my personal experience as well. I haven't been able to test Lullaby yet (trying to talk friends into hanging out with me while I crowd-control a high level mob is not an easy thing to do) .. but the rate for landing Requiem has simply shot through the roof. I don't have exact data (I want to do some personal testing in the near future) but the resist rate for Requim was somewhere around 50% during my levels 57-62. Three nights ago I bought my Light Staff. I've had *ONE* Requiem resist since. I'd guess that's near 150 times I've succuessfully landed it in a row ... I stopped counting after 50. Last night I finally had a resist on the song. Needless to say, I'm *very* encouraged by this, and I will get an earth staff when I start doing Dynamis and HNM fights.

I'm taking a Light Staff into BCNM60 soon... hopefully the results will be good!

-jamison

[LockeCole]

Originally posted by antony
You're going to sell your signa to buy a Light Staff? What about threnodies? I was under the impression the two songs that are on the mob are Threnody and Elegy, so Requiem doesn't matter. The optimal situation would be a Signa and a Light Staff, but is it really worth it to sell the Signa?

Well with Signa my threnodies were still getting resisted pretty consistantly. Thing is you usually try to make a monster even weaker to the element it already is weak in (Earth T for Torama), which is already hard because it's based on the element it's strong against (wow... that made.. so little sense lol). Anyway ignoring that junk above, I rationalized that light staff would help my White mage and Black Mage(53) as well, while Signa would only help my bard (although I haven't noticed it "helping" that much). If I need a little extra Charsma I'll just slap on my (cheaper) Shellbuster :thumbsup:. Personally I would have gotten an Earth Staff... but for some reason that's the most expensive staff out there <_<";. We're not all rich enough to afford 3 elemental staves and a Signa ._.;;

[Nodachi]

After switching to light staff myself i don't think i would want to go back to signa. CHR seems to be so abundant for me even at level 54 that the extra 5 character signa would offer me doesn't seem worth it over the mind and cure +% of the staff. IMO it truely is the overall better of the two.