Do songs really never stick with a Bard sub?

[Theiry]

Hey, I've heard that you can pretty much never get a song to stick with Bard as your sub job. So I was wondering exactly how bad it is =l and I figured, what better place to ask then here.

So is it possible for, say, a level 32/16 Thief/Bard to actualy sleep a monster? I figure that it won't work well against IT monsters, but what about Easy ones? Could a subbed bard sleep Easy Prey monsters reliably? How about sticking Threnodies and that sort?

I'll assume the answer is 'no they can't' so my next question is, is it possilbe to get enough Chr+ equipment to make sleep stick? What about if it was a Dragoon/Bard instead of Thief? Or White Mage, Beastmaster... any job at all.. =)

One last thing, how much of each stat will the Etudes give you if used as a sub job? Or, for that matter, how much of each stat do you get when Bard is your main?

Thanks for any help. I know Bard isn't the best sub out there, but I really want to try it, and I'd love to be able to sleep Easy monsters.

[EFigaro]

Consider what you're losing by subbing Bard before you consider what you might gain. With Brd sub you lose the extra damage from /war and the dual wielding from /Nin first. Then consider that all your Singing skill is at half staff since it's based on your sub. YOu also have no Instrument skill since you can't use instruments. Also, as a Thf primary you need to concentrate on bonuses to Agi and Dex as well as Evasion and Acc where as with Brd you need +Chr, which short changes your Main job.

Rdm/Brd is possible at the 50/25 level since it allows you to be the ultimate in support thanks to Refresh, Dispel, Haste, Cures, and Ballad. Your Minute and Madrigal won't be as powerful, but still helpful.

In other words...Thf/Brd would horribly short change your main and hinder your ability to be a support person just based on stats. That's not even going into it means you do less damage from less attacks since you're busy singing instead of swinging.

And it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

[Theiry]

Haha =) Well, I guess I probably won't use Thief/Bard very often in leveling groups, but I play a lot with just my Brother, so I was hoping that I could sleep at least Easy monsters with it. Although Thief/Ninja would probably be better in all situations, I'd still like to goof around and see what I can pull of with other subs.

[Leri]

To answer your question about lullaby.

Lullaby can be a pure pain in the ass for a Bard (main job) to land. Generally though I've never had much trouble sleeping something T or below.

As for easy mobs you might be able to do it. But they will wake before the timer is refreshed.. no Mary's Horn. ^^;

[Theiry]

That's good then, it'll be great to be able to sleep some Easies and Too Weaks while my brother and I get all set up to fight it. I can get two Sneak + Trick attacks behind my brother every fight =) Or I can just sleep any links we get while fighting things alone, or sleep monsters that are chasing people.

[sudo]

isn't thf chr horribly gimped?

I'm fairly sure that thf/brd would work alot less well than say a war/brd just for the chr increase.

[Faranim]

when leveling my WHM subjob, I subbed bard ;)

Level 30-38 WHM/BRD was able to land Earth Threnody on beetles and crawlers over 90%. Lullaby was also a decent rate (around 50% on VT - IT... normal EXP mobs).

Also, Madrigal made a difference (very small... but noticable) in the melee's accuracy.

I don't think Bard makes a very good long-term subjob.... but for the lower levels it's decent on mages. (I was just too lazy to level BLM)

[Theiry]

Yeah, Thieves have are tied with Ninja at the lowest Chr I think. So, I can probably lower what others have said to me being able to stick Threnodies and Lullabies on Too Weak through Tough monsters. I'll carry around a bunch of Chr+ equipment so I can have a macro to equip those when I need to debuff.

To reply to the other post, 50% isn't too bad for IT monsters. That's actually quite good I'd think. =) I'll have some fun leveling my Whm/Bard, and any other job I want to sub Bard on (I'll do Thief/Bard a lot too). The Threnodies should be fun when it's just me and my brother playing, we can make them weak to whatever skill chain we plan on doing. Better yet, he can sub his Red Mage (I know, not too great for a warrior) and burst off that =)