Mage Advanced Jobs you would like to see

[FFXITsukasa]

There are so many Advanced Job geared towards other classes like Thief and Warrior and even Monk but us Mages have the least possiblity for expansion. Our only possible advanced jobs are Bard and Summoner and standard jobs are White Mage, Red Mage, and Black Mage. Warriors have Ninja, Ranger, Samurai, Dragoon, Dark Knight, and Paladin. Basically whatever they want can aid them so why shouldn't mages have more choices? I want to see who thinks we should have more advanced jobs and what they would be. I for one would like to see the Geomancer. With the ability to use the elements to attack, just like on Tactics. Where they use magic that deal damage and cause status effects or lower resistance. I that would be a nice addition to the Mage's expansion. It would give you a slight MP boost and a bit of HP, since Geomancers are rather tough, and the ability to you Geomantic magics that both enfeeble and damage. Damage would have to be small compared to a Black Mages damage but being about to damage while enfeebling would be great in my humble opinion. Any opinions?

[Demonlord]

i think a Blue mage or a Time mage (the same thing?) would be cool. I also think that black mage needs new spells like Meteor and better Ancient Magic effects. As effects i mean the ancients need to do more dmg or atleast have a faster cast time because it is riduculous for the amt of time and money the economy makes u use to get these spells, aka Flare. As for other mage advanced jobs what about battlemages? I know there is red mage and possibly black mage, but something focussed on high dmg magic along with melee, and no cure abilities, just a pure fighting machine like the dark knight....? Just my 2 cents, please feel free to flame my comment because I know what i put isn't anything to brag about.

[Coinspinner]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Demonlord
As for other mage advanced jobs what about battlemages? I know there is red mage and possibly black mage, but something focussed on high dmg magic along with melee, and no cure abilities, just a pure fighting machine like the dark knight....? Just my 2 cents, please feel free to flame my comment because I know what i put isn't anything to brag about.

So a DRK with stronger magic or a BLM with an A+ two-handed weapon... or else a RDM with no Cure spells. No thanks.

[navpops]

blue mage would be underpowered for a LONG time, and overpowered eventually -- which will never be implemented

time mage would just have spells RDM and BLM and WHM already have.. unelss your want some spell like Meteor whichh isnt worth an entire class for 1 new spell

battlemage just wont work.

just my suggestions


- \('`Þ`)/


*altho a geomancer that debuffs the opposing element, the would do what in a dungeon with no element?? or a burning circle a rea???·_·

[Bamce Sylph]

geomancers could be neat maybe have they're spells/ablities be more effected by weather/day than normal. i could see time mage maybe being like.... a mix of red and summoner. give them slow, slowga, slow2, stop (stun) sleep, gravity, haste, hastega, haste2? couple time/mental related nukes maybe a few debuffs like paralyze or an acc/evasion debuff. maybe a self autohaste activated ablity( b/c haste effects spell cooldown)

geomancers could have like bind, slow, (earth elements) firenukes, wind silence, ice paralyze, some debuffs, water =heals. but instead of mana maybe make them similar to bloodpacts wher eu can choose an element then use the skill. maybe 30sec reuse. decent low lvl fighters, maybe a Bish in axe. (1hand) decent h2h rateing. maybe staff/club too. similar to how tactics geo's used the terrain only give u a choice of ablity based of like earth wind, etc skills

[FFXITsukasa]

Well Meteor is already in game data at level 200. But just like Summoners have their own spells Geomancers could have Geomancy. Like Hell Vines that can be used only during certain conditions. For example it can be day or night and can only be used on grass areas or earthen areas, that probably wouldn't work because then you would need Elementals that work in the desert, tundra, grasslands, and water, etc. Maybe like someone before hand said, weather conditions. Like Slip Rain can only be used while raining and causes Water damage and may slow the enemy. And Hell Vine can be used in normal, sunny or raining weather to do Earth damage and perhaps stop an enemy. I don't think Time Mage or Oracle will work because Time Mage is basically taken by White Mage with their Haste, Slow, Deodorize, and Slowga, etc and the Black Mage with Bind. Oracles are basic enfeeblers and that would strip away Black Mages job or Blinding, Poisoning and Binding and Rasping. It would be cool if you could have a Mage that was all Buffer or all Enfeebler but that would have had to be implimented at the begining. I think Geomancer/Elementalist and their magic can be called Elementals and as I said enfeeble and damage though both factors would be decreased from what Black mage could do. Just Geomancers can do both in one spell rather than having to Fire then Bio. Rasp is kinda like a Geomantic spell that deals damage and enfeebles but Geomancers should be able to use ones of greater effect or use the current ones to a great effect. Now... what should their two hour and other job skill and abilities be? I think they should have 'Earthen Bonds' and that could increase their Elementals enfeebling or damage. And rather than Elemental Seal they could have 'Earthen Seal' or 'Earthen Bonds' could be this but it is a 5 minute skill that increases the Damage/accuracy/enfeebling potential of the next spell. Any others?

[Reaperx90]

Haha...MIME! He can choose a person to mimic every 20 seconds and he automatically emulates their attack! WooT!

...

Jes' kiddin' :biggrin:

[ArcticZero]

Can't say I know a thing about ffxi history or lore.. since this is my first ff game.. only char not in this game that I miss from others is a necromancer.. got to love one that controls the undead..

[FFXITsukasa]

Necromancer would be kinda cool. Give them Necromancy and the ability to raise skeletons and raise at a high level. Give them some enfeebles. Their two hour can like raise your skeletons resistance to Light magic or increase their HP and Defense and call it ... ugh... 'Strengthen Bones'? nah, doesn't have that ring to it.

[Craig A. Rock]

Hey Dude,
Yeah i also think mages are highly confined in their expansions. I think they need to have different variations of red mages. You know one red mage that speacializes only in black/white magic is ok.... but what about partial summoners? At least this kind does not hav to totally rely on their summons. Also more enchanted weapons for mages would be cool (like swords, daggars, etc.). Especially if they can be used by other advance jobs. Though these weapons would hav to be weak on attack or more on dely to balance out. What do you think? :sweat:

[FFXITsukasa]

Well I kinda agree but what would a White Mage/ Fighter be called? Cleric? Thats kinda cutting into D&D and stuff. A White Mage Fighter would kinda be like a Bard in a way. I don't think Summoners rely on their Avatars that much, not even at higher levels. Summons are just used to pull and deal extra damage while using their abilities to help the party, such as Carbuncles Healing Light or leviathans Spring Water that full cures and restores to normal status for the entire party. Summons were never meant to be tanks except at low levels to protect you from attack but even then Im a black mage and I can solo rather well so a Summoners Avatar would just be a little helper.

[Tavian_Northe]

I think that there should be a mage class that specializes in hand atks and can use time magics. I really miss the time wizards, and i think this would be a great way to re-incorporate them. of course i havent thot of the specifics, but i think it would be cool.

And another thing, i think there are so many melee adv jobs because so many people want to be a warrior and mages might be a little confusing for the new-comers. Give it a while.

:eek: blue mage :eek: blue mage :eek:

[FFXITsukasa]

As I said before Time Mages (or more commonly known as Oracles) utilize magics or Time and Space. This would take spells like Slow, Slowaga, Haste, and Blink away from White Mages and spells like Gravity, Bind, and Meteor away from Black Mages (Yes Meteor is a Black Magic at level 200 or so) Time Mage would have had to have been implimented into the game from the start so it wouldn't barge into the Black and White Mages realms and piss them off. I for one would be quite upset to see another Mage taking my and my brothers job. Being a Mage i am very proud of my job and Time Mage would just be another nessicary party member to take up space. So now you would need White Mage, Black Mage, Time Mage, and a Warrior. Perhaps two Warriors and another White Mage or another job that can support the Warrior be it damamge wise or by healing. And as for a Monkey Mage. I would be upset to see a Mage running around punching the hell out of things. I mean, They could nuke and haul as with fists making them uber powerful. Monks already have it easy getting level and with a Black Mage kinda twist they would get more parties. No Monkey Mages, Time Mages if they had put them in from the start. :thumbsup:

[Discordian]

Originally posted by FFXITsukasa
Well I kinda agree but what would a White Mage/ Fighter be called? Cleric? Thats kinda cutting into D&D and stuff. A White Mage Fighter would kinda be like a Bard in a way. I don't think Summoners rely on their Avatars that much, not even at higher levels. Summons are just used to pull and deal extra damage while using their abilities to help the party, such as Carbuncles Healing Light or leviathans Spring Water that full cures and restores to normal status for the entire party. Summons were never meant to be tanks except at low levels to protect you from attack but even then Im a black mage and I can solo rather well so a Summoners Avatar would just be a little helper.

white mage / fighter? Isn't that a Paladin?

[FFXITsukasa]

HA HA HA NO, Silly! Thats Fighter/White Mage. Nah, White mage/Fighter guy would kinda be like a pally but ALOT weaker. I just want something that adds nice magically aptitude. Like Geomancers could whip around Axes and Staves and add to your MP or int. And Necro can give you a skeleton to help out. (mage or Warrior).

[sudo]

just run around as a whm/war and you got yourself the warrior mage.... *cough cough*

Hell, I feel like my bst is already like pld, in fact all bst sub whm it seems so we're already your war/mage deal

As for mage/war.... isn't that rdm???? or maybe a sucidial brd with a sword??

[FFXITsukasa]

A mage/warrior would be more caster so a WHM/WAR would be like a Cleric by D&D or EQ standards. A BLM/WAR would kinda be like a Shaman on EQ. I am talking about completly new Jobs rather than combinations. i.e. the Geomancer or Necromancer. I can't really think of too many more Mage jobs other than Necromancer or Geomancer. But I would pick Geomancer over Necromancer any day! :)

[ArcticZero]

Necos are pet based so the pet would be adding alot to the melee damage of the party.. so the mage itself would get things like life taps dots, ect.. would be a great thing.. I like pet casters.. and don't think it is done well in eqoa so far..

[FFXITsukasa]

I second that but I think they should have more pet enhancing spells rather than stuff like Drain and Aspir (though they should get those) They should get like Strengthen Bones kinda spells and spells that can 'Cure' thier pet and increase attack power and speed. That would be a FFXI Necromancer. ~Likes Geomancer better~ :p

[dagon2002]

really off topic but the necro in diablo 2 was on of the coolest classes ive ever seen. I think if u built it kinda like d2 it would not be as meleeish as say an eq necro.

but then again the drk and blms get spells that are very necro like.




what about a calculator?

[Erasmus]

Necromancers are WAY overdone and I dont think there are any necros in any FF game. Closest thing is the fiend of earth in FFIV and The bad guy in FFX ( cant remember name atm).


I honestly dont think the game has any room for more jobs. MAYBE room for 1 more mage job or solo job.

Tank role is already covered. Lots of Warrios, Paladins and Ninjas.

Damage melee is already OVERDONE. thats why monks, drk, drg, and others have such a hard time getting a pt. The one who get pts alot have a great reputation which is independant of job.

Magic dmg..covered by blm. If you dont think they do enough dmg... then you suck at blm. We do LOTS of dmg. Its our job.

Healing... covered by whm.

Support ( buffing/debuffing) .. covered by brd and rdm.

Pet classes... covered by smn and bst. Bst is not very "traditional" party friendly though. And smn is a combination of the other mage jobs, with better spells with a higher cost, and a more complicated casting system.

I dont really see alot of room for jobs. Even for a solo job, they cant do much different without overpowering the pt aspect of that job. They can add more mage jobs and make it harder for us to get pts... but no thank you.

[Erasmus]

sorry dbl post.

[riceburner4540]

what about a calculator?

this job is highly unlikely. it would be insanely hard, and in fact impossible to pull off. in FFT, it was turn based so you could stop, look at the field, and do the calculations. in FFXI, the monster's hp changes rapidly, as does your party's. its difficult to guess the exact level of a monster unless it cons even match or weaker. you can only guess within a level range. by the time you actually finish your calculations, everything will have changed.

[Rikyio]

I was wondering if some of you spoke to NPCs in Norg. One NPC there mentions about a "different" kind of magic they use for their pirating. Basically it's raising the undead (those mean guys that raid you while you fish on the boat >_<), so technically necromancy exists in FF XI.

[BloodRedPoet]

If they added anything like Necromancer or Time Mage, I woud lost faith in FFXI. I seriously dislike EQ and DnD... FF(and I guess DW) are a break away from Tolkien style RPGs which I grown tired of. Nercomancer has NEVER been in FF. The pirate's magic animation is the same of summoner, so it is simple "Undead Spirit" spell. As for Time Mage, it is simply covered... a high level BLM/RDM or RDM/BLM is a Time Mage. Orcale does not = Time Mage.

Mage/Melee kind of job is simply not needed.

They should add a kind of job that is not really covered and I can't think of something . Maybe another solo-able job. I rather they fix jobs than add new ones. Blue Mage or Geomancer if anything. If they do add a Blue Mage or Geomancer I hope they make like BST, who's power is based on using outside forces(Geomancer's power = day/field and Blue Mage's power = Monster's WS or abilities).

We have three support jobs: SMN, BRD, RDM (and WHM)
We have two healing jobs: RDM, WHM (and SMN)
We have two tank jobs: NIN, PLD (and WAR)
We have a couple of Melee/Renkei-ers
We have two high damagers: RNG, BLM
We have one soloable job/based on environment job: BST

[FFXITsukasa]

Well almost every MMORPG is loosely based on D&D rules. Even though if you don't like it oh well. I kinda want Necromancer but not as much as I want Geomancer. Geomancer would be cool as solo but would probably over power a party now that I think of it. I would rather they make it a party job. Thats what a Mage job is meant to be.

[BloodRedPoet]

BST can solo because they use the strongest part of the enviorment: the monsters. BST gets better exp in parties anyway... they can solo as well, but can not beat out a stable party.

[Rebellion]

WHM/Fighter combo could be called a sage.

[FFXITsukasa]

Wonder what Sages could ever do though. I still want Geomancer. They hauled ass on FFT and so did Dancers. Man they ruled.

/drools on himself

[mr.aaa]

Try to consider some of the jobs in FFX-2
I don't have alot of experiance with FF X-2, but I play a little when I visit my uncle's house:)

How bout Gun Mage? or ummm.... the job Rikku had in FF X?
Mix ethers to replenish your MP during a fight, or some potions to support the tank. Of course, a draw back would have to be made. If used as a support, you can't make the strong items you would be able to as a main job.

I think the job thing is done correctly, after all I think most of us have learned a big life lesson......life's not fair.:(

[TheEndlessMoon]

That Gun Mage sounds exactly like a Chemist, which I think is the only thing that FFXI needs. He uses light armor and a gun or a knife, and has the ability to use certain potions, depending on his level. He also gets inherenet abilities to increase the potency of the pre-existing potions (Potion, X-Potion, Hi-Potion, Ether, etc.) and his two hour is Mix, which lets him combine the effects of any two potions. For example, a Hi-Potion and a Hi-Ether creates an Elixir.

[Senate4242]

Geomancer, Time Mage and Chemist would all be wonderful additions.

If they were to introduce new jobs, you would see the Dunes/Buburimu full of 6 Blue Mage partys and what not lol I wonder what it was like when they introduced the new jobs with Zilart.

[Darkmana]

personaly this is what i would love to see in FFXI...

when you reach Lv 50, you have a choice wether you want to stay as a black mage (or your main of any job for that matter) or do a quest that turns you into the Version 2 of that job. so Black Mage becomes Black Wizard or Dark Mage. this job would have even higher INT, more spells, higher spell damage, and greater MP but weaker physical damage and defence and HP. this would open up a branch of new abilities and traits as well. how about this?

Abilities:

Double Cast Lv 50 - doubles attack power of spells yet drains x2 the magic.

Magic Mix Lv 60 - mix 2 spells together to create a bigger, more powerful spectacular looking new spell. Eg - Fire III + Aero III = Firestorm. (admit it, spells dont look as cool as the other FF games)

Ultimate Cast Lv 70 - uses all of the Black Wizards/Dark Mages MP when using this. Allows you to mix 2 AE spells together to make an "ultimate spell" which does insane damage.

Traits:

Magic Morph Lv 50 - as with skillchains, when 2 spells are cast that link, these form together to make a bigger, more powerful spell. Eg Water + Lightining = Liquid Energy.

i've yet to think up any more traits but you get my idea. i think this would rock so hard. it would give the game so much more depth. right now us BLM have only really 2 things to worry about when fighting. 1.) not to get agro while nuking and 2.) magic burst from skillchains. i find this very boring in a battle and would LOVE to have a equivilent of the melee system in mage form. i think everyone would agree its perfectly reasonable to want 2 spells to link together such as 2 WSes do. also just for fun, i've thought up 2 Ninja abilities for the advanced form, Assassin.

Change Shape Lv 50 - turns you into any selected mob for as long as you like, which lets you move without agro as long as you stay within the zone. when you move to a new area it dissapears.

Assassin Blow Lv 60 - when TP is at 300%, you are behind an enemy and use this ability, then you have a 30% chance to instantly kill a mob. if failed this simply causes 2x critical damage. this could be tweaked not to work on HNMs or NMs as not to make HNM extremely easy.

just my ideas. i personaly think they are great and would love to see them

[kazuri]

Well, since the topic's revived, I guess I'll post my thoughts...

Geomancer! Their magic, Geomancy (almost everything like Tsukasa said).
It's the same as other spells, you must buy scrolls from (places) and use them to learn. Now to casting them. Let's say you're in Beaudecine Glaciers. The zone is basically the element; Ice. So! You could cast the Ice Element Geomancy 'freely' whenever, with no cost of anything but MP. Since Beaudecine is an "ice" zone, you wouldn't be able to cast any other elemental spells there... unless you use some tools. Something like Ninjitsu tools- if you use certain ones (let's say... Fire Ash) like Fire Ash, then you'd now have the ability to cast Fire Element Geomancy for: 1) once, 2) certain time limit, 3) etc.

As for your post, Darkmana, the thoughts are gewd but IMO, too much overpowering and flaws. IE; Magic Mix. S-E would have to work their arses off to create combination looks for everything... Fire I + Thunder II, Blizzard III + Stone IV, Aero V + Water MCMLXXXV, etc. Unless you meant limitations on combinations, there's too much possibilities and thus it'd create problems, I thinks. I do love your ideas on Double Cast and Magic Morph though, your new ideas are very creative. :r

PS: Black Waltz > Black Wizard/Dark Mage IMO. :spin:

[Drachol]

thats a lame idea, no one would stay as a 'black mage' because no blm ever melees and if they are good they wont be getting hate anyways. the abilitys you listed are way overpowerd as well.

we all just need to stop this new job stuff. i seriously doubt they will ever even add new jobs. just stop. please.

[kazuri]

What's wrong with being creative and imaginating stuff up? I enjoy thinking up new jobs and equipment, etc. :rolleyes:

Who cares if SE doesn't read this and create new jobs, the reason we post this shiznit is 'cause it's 'fun'. ^^;

[Darkmana]

yes i know the abilities that i listed are quite strong, but the same can be said about the current RNG abilities. IMO magic should be MUCH more powerful and damaging than a wooden arrow. if you dont want new jobs, or abilties at least add my idea of a more in depth magic system where spells add together. while blm is a very damaging job already, we lack any real depth and fun while exping. we just simply nuke and thats about it. soon as a blm enters melee they are considered a bad player. even whm has more range and depth than what blm do

EDIT - thank you zakuri ^^ this is why i posted this, simply for fun and to dream of what CAN be added. and yes i did'nt mean every spell would have a diffrent look. as with skillchains there would only be like 8 or so diffrent effects, but around 10 ways of getting each.

[OTP Member]

I thank a Juggler or a Mime would be pretty neet you could use the monsters attack on them selfs but isnt that like a Blue Mage? and I forgot wat a Juggler did but I know it was some kind of mage...maybey they should add Magic sword to the Ninja like they have in FF5...

[Mursk]

Noone mentioned Berserker (The name means 'Without Shirt') The idea is to introduce a pure melee form of extreme damage, no defense and lack of utility.. but this pretty much falls under a weaker form of Dark Knight. :o

[Faranim]

I think Chemist / Alchemist would be a very good mage job.

Perhaps give them access to all of the elemtal / debuffing Ninjutsu, or create a similar line of spells that rely on using material components to cast spells rather than MP.

[Rekiem]

Mime, Chemist and Dancer

Those three are the only classic job FFXI is missing and theres really an open spot for them. Dancer would be a pure debuffer, Attack, Accuracy, Evasion, Defence, etc. Chemist would be like a WHM but he would use tools like Ninja but to Cure, remove status, enhance and maybe they could use guns, like in FF tactics. Mime would be a support jobs, with the ability to copy PT members magic and abilities.

I'd like to see Blue Mage too but if you look carefully, all the monsters attack are copies of job abilities/magic. Theres hardly any ability left that would be unique to this job so I just dont see how Blue Mage could be implemented.

[nanatsu]

Originally posted by Darkmana
yes i know the abilities that i listed are quite strong, but the same can be said about the current RNG abilities. IMO magic should be MUCH more powerful and damaging than a wooden arrow. if you dont want new jobs, or abilties at least add my idea of a more in depth magic system where spells add together. while blm is a very damaging job already, we lack any real depth and fun while exping. we just simply nuke and thats about it. soon as a blm enters melee they are considered a bad player. even whm has more range and depth than what blm do

EDIT - thank you zakuri ^^ this is why i posted this, simply for fun and to dream of what CAN be added. and yes i did'nt mean every spell would have a diffrent look. as with skillchains there would only be like 8 or so diffrent effects, but around 10 ways of getting each.

I don't think the renkei magic is exactly fair to other melees. ^^;; Like it was pointed out before there are just way too many combinations. ^^;; It's way too confusing. Plus the idea of renkei is to allow all the offensive players to participate in an all out group assault. You can't do this with renkei magic, because the melees would not be able to participate in it.

Not to mention that WS are skills that everyone has access to. They aren't "normal" abilities and they aren't readily accessible at all times. Mages wouldn't have to do something like build TP to use renkei magic. Which is extremely unfair as they'd be able to do it whenever they want, while the other type of renkei needs to be built up over time.

If this was allowed, you wouldn't need melee based skillchains. Magic based renkei would be far more superior and you could just repeatedly renkei the mob until it was dead. Which would reduce battles to mere seconds at higher levels. ^^; You can sorta see how it would totally spiral out of control the way you've set it up. Though very interesting and creative, it's a very bad idea. ^^;; Sorry.

[almighty_boof]

Of course at higher levels, melee becomes more useful than magic and the only reason that a mage is in the party is because of Renkei.

As for the mage job, I would love to see Geomancers and alchemists or Chemists (Whichever one they wanna call it). With Geomancers, I think it would be a good idea to strengthen the spells they cast depending on the weather conditions, also, they should be able to summon low level elementals.

As for the Chemist, this would most likely be the Ranger class of Mages. Buying all the items and buying the stff to MAKE items, it will cost a lot of money. However, it would be very nice because there would be no MP getting in the way, you'd just be spending your money. ^^; Of course WHM would be the only viable subjob for this class, and BLM or RDM for Geomancer. Some may choose SMN because I'm sure Geomancers would have low MP because they have higher HP and STR statistics.

However, SE is done making new classes for the game, so this whole thread is mute.

[Marcus_Macaulay]

I know this is about mage jobs but I would like to see the Mystic Knight /Sorceror from FF5
I have always liked a class that only has magic that buff up his attacks.
I think it would be a nice addition. But to go along with mages I really can't think of others...
Sorry can't think of any not already said but I have liked Necromancers from games pasted so I guess I would like to see it.

[DavisMarkin]

Regarding Darkmana's idea of a 'superjob'

The only possibility these could be even remotely balanced, in my opinion, is if you _could not subjob_ while using said superjob, but can subjob if you were using the regular job (it would be like subbing BLM onto BLM, but with added abilities). I'm kinda iffy on the whole idea though. Since only a few jobs could truly get away with this. WAR, BLM(on occasion, but generally they would still be asked to sub WHM), WHM, RDM(possible, depending on what new abilities they got), _maybe_ THF, DRK, MNK, RNG, and SAM. Most other jobs will not get PTs at all if they are in superjob form, unless they got ways to continue their current playstyle (PLDs and NINs getting many more hate-gathering abilities, for instance).

If such a thing were implemented, I'd hope that this whole thing has a very hard, critical look at what it would do to the game balance. But the factor about whether such a thing could happen depends on the reason for SE's disallowance of subbing and mainjobbing the same job. If it's cause of technical issues, then it might be done, but if it's due to balance issues (frex, if Master Archers <RNG> were considered able to kill anything low IT and below well before it approached the group, and I'm not talking sleep arrow spam), then I would see it never happening. And that's my 2 gil on the issue.

Regarding Mystic Knights: I'd love to see them too, but I could definately see them stepping on RDM's toes, as well. :|

Edit: Wow, ok... I guess 8 jobs is more than a few...

[Ungerpurr]

Jobs I think are needed:

1) Another healing job: Should be better at it than rdm, not as good as whm. Should also nuke better than rdm, but not as good as blm (and preferably with something other than the old re-hashed elemental nukes).. The caveat - not much (if any) in the way of enfeebles, no refresh. Less melee ability than rdm, something close to whm. (If WHM = EQ Cleric, and RDM = EQ Shaman, this job = EQ Druid).

2) Another 'hybrid': We have pld, we have drk. We need something that is ostensibly War/rdm, in the sense that pld is war/whm and drk is war/blm. Also give them like a B+ ranged attack skill, bows only (and they get the WS). Don't just rehash the spells, either - there needs to be something unique. Maybe a hybrid of war and the new job I proposed above - should melee slightly better than rdm, tank not as well as pld, do damage not as well as a drk. (Kinda/sorta an EQ Ranger).

The main obstacle to this kinda of implementation is SE's insistence on having a tiny list of spells in the game... sorry for drawing so much on EverQuest, but in that game, there are probably over 40 different healing spells. All jobs that can heal get the basic minor healing, light healing, healing, greater healing, etc., but clerics get many different types of heals that are all theirs, as do shamans and druids, and their hybrids also. Paladins get their own special heals, Shadow knights/rangers get their own nukes (that are tailored to the needs of a job where spell damage is an added bonus, not a primary purpose - i.e., fast-casting nukes that do decent damage, and are reasonably efficient, but with long recast timers).

Basically my argument is that FFXI is far too bland in their job creation. Most of the melee jobs have no real purpose other than to do melee damage. No secondary role at all. Drk, Drg, Sam, Mnk, etc., they all have their little tricks (absorbs, jumps, TP generation, loads of JAs), but all they do is damage. All I can say is....BLEH. Too bland. I can go into examples of diversity in "the other game" that I've already mentioned, but I don't want to detract any more than I already have from the main topic.

I mean, look at the summoner job, for chrissakes. They have eight (count 'em!), eight avatars, each of which has from 2-4 useful abilities at any particular level. So, essentially you level a job to get (averaging it) 24 "spells." To add insult to injury, you can only use one ability per minute. *WOW* It's no wonder this job lacks definition except for its whm or rdm subjob.

For the record: I honestly could not care less whether or not either of the above mentioned jobs have ever been in a previous FF game. I could not care less about remaining 'true to the series.' The fact of the matter is, this is an online game, with a monthly subscription fee, and it's in the interest of SE to add jobs (and abilities) that facilitate the use of non-standard PT formations. There are times when I've done a /sea all and a /sea inv all and compared. I remember at one time *10%* of the population of the server was looking for a party. That's absolutely ridiculous. One-tenth of their player base, at that moment in time, wanted to xp, but couldn't, but couldn't because of the limitations on the PT formation.

The "other game" used to have this problem as well, but solved it, primarily by making the primary healer even better at its duty, and increasing the power of the secondary healers as well, thus making all three of them capable of being healers. At the same time, they increased the power of the two primary nukers, and also added more nuke power to the two secondary healer classes (and not quite so much, but some, to the primary healer).

Suddenly instead of one valid healer, two support casters (think enfeebling), and two valid nukers, you had

1) a specialized healer
2) a specialized nuker
3) a support nuker (about 90% of specialized, also some debuffs)
4) a support healer / nuker (about 80% of both specialized classes).
5) a support caster
5) a support healer / nuker / debuffer (60% healer, 60% nuker, 100% debuffer).

So now instead of the one healer, you have three, instead of the two nukers, you have four, and also increased the abilities of the support classes so that they can serve more roles.

All I'm saying is...FFXI needs to expand its horizon, pimp out some job-specific abilities to other jobs, and get rid of any group-slot monopolies. Our time on Vana'diel is too short to spend it all looking for a party.

[FFXITsukasa]

The Dark Mage thing is way too complex for SE to do. Combining spell effects and such. Its too difficult and no one would ever stay BLM. Geomancer, Blue Mage or Chemist would all be cool. Berserker isn't really a mage job though : / In any case I am sad cause CoP didnt add any jobs, nor one that I wanted to see.

[leii]

gun mage lol

[kazuri]

Regarding that 'hybrid' post, how about a Temple Knight? It was in FFT... and if any of you had Beowulf, his main thing was Drain/Sleep etc. So... maybe something unique like En-Drain, En-Aspir, En-Bio, etc. -o-

HP = C Elemental Skill = C
MP = B Enfeebling Skil = A
STR = B- Dark Skill = C
VIT = C Healing Skill = C+
DEX = C Divine Skill = C-
AGI = B+ Enhacing Skill = B
INT = B
MND = B
CHR = C


Eh? ^^;

[Taskmage]

Don't forget "Chicken"

[Thorr_111]

hey do eny of u who play ff11 know a guy named Maharam or something like that?

[kazuri]

But FFXI has no Brave/Faith points, so Chicken I didn't list. But maybe it can be used as means of lowering stats somehow. ^^

[iglak]

geomancer: too much like a BLM, the weather and moon phase effect BLM spells by quite a bit already, and a BLM uses the elements, what would a Geomancer have that's unique?

blue mage: too hard, and takes a lot away from other melee, since most WSs are just converted enemy WSs anyway.

red mage/warrior: would be too weak with spells, and wouldn't have enough mp to be very useful with spells.

black mage/warrior: this is exactly what a DRK is.

some mage that's good with melee, and can make enemies weak to certain elements, and has somewhat powerful spells: this is exactly what a NIN is.

Time mage: yes, this would take way too much away from WHM and BLM.

Chemist: this would require too many materials, and would be awkward.

some H2H mage: MNKs are still very good when subbed with a mage job, if used effectively.

white mage/warrior: this is exactly what a PLD is.

some melees can sub a mage and use it effectively (MNK, DRG, maybe others)

mages can specialize their roles in a party, and only focus on certain types of spells.

really, there are a lot more PT formation options than people are able to think of. the PT leaders are the ones that are "too bland" if they can't figure out a way to fight without a BRD or a RDM.

Mime would be... odd... and not very good.

Dancer is doable, but would take a lot away from BRD

the only job i can see in this game still is Pirate, and i've mentioned it before. it could be your "a gun mage" or a melee mage that's bad at dual wielding. Pirate NPCs are necromancers, so a pirate would be a necromancer/nin type of thing.
and one spell learned much later could be to raise a fallen party member as an undead pet, but the person would be dead still so it could go to it's HP, or be raised to normal by a /WHM or PLD. or maybe that could be a 2HR that lasts 30 seconds... and give the person enhanced stats.
and you would have to get necromancy summons similar to how a SMN gets summons

[kazuri]

Hmm, maybe I'll go into details with RDM-WAR combo; TPK (Temple Knight.)

A TPK's main priority won't be causing massive dmg with meleeing OR casting spells to nuke the mob to death. I guess they can have various acts, but I think they can be the best with 'Support' or 'Tanking'. Their main weapon would be a 1 handed sword; skill about the same as a PLD's, just a bit lower; making them the 2nd highest with sword skill. All the EX WS' will be able to be performed as a TPK alone, and maybe even Swift Blade, eh? But still, due to their below-good strength attribute, they won't be causing massive dmg per hit like a WAR dual-wielding axes and spamming (WS) or whatever. Decent dmg overall, and various WS' at disposal. They'd also have access to Daggers, Clubs, Staves... maybe even 2 handed swords. Shields? Yes, they got decent skill with it also. A tad higher than a WHM's, maybe. Enough to be actually part-useful. Not sure what their 2hr could be, but I've thought up some of their job traits. At level20, a TPK would learn one of their first awesome spell; their own En- stuff. Unlike a RDM and their EN-ELEMENTs, a TPK would have EN-ATTRIBUTES or something. EnDrain, absorbing a small amount of HP every hit, EnAspir for MP, EnDia/Bio, lowering ATK and DEF by a small amount every hit and stuff, na? Starting from level20, as they hit 35, 50, 65, they'll gain special job traits that allows them to stack more En-spells. So at lv35, they'd be able to cast two EN-Spells and use them simu. 3 at 50, 4 at 65... something like that, I dunno. Combine this with /NIN for dual wield, and having EnDrain, EnAspir, EnBio, EnBlind would be pretty nice. They would also have access to RDM's Enfeebling spells, and their skills would be a tad lower than a RDM's, as well as taking higher levels to learn such stuff. Their other job traits can be MG DEF+, just as a RDM gets MG ATK+. Elemental Spells? Not sure, most likely a yes, but even more nerfed than a RDM and DRK, but not THAT weak. Maybe learn upto the -II series by lv75. Enhancing Spells; full access just like a RDM had. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blink... but they'd have no access to Regen, Refresh. Haste would be learned at lv50-60 instead of 40's. Healing Skills? As same as a RDM's, I guess. Their AF pieces and JSE would be somewhat similar to a RDM's, boosting a bit of everything. Their HP and MP... more HP than MP definately, but not too big of a difference. Evened out distribution. Their DEX would be... decent, as well as their AGI. INT/MND would be higher than all, not sure which one would take the lead. Their VIT would be below average, so they'd have to resort to Phalanx/Stoneskin/Blink/Utsusemi (NINsub) and the EN-spells for tanking.

I'd also like to make a suggestion with your Necromancer job, if you'd allow. ^^;

[iglak]

Originally posted by kazuri
I'd also like to make a suggestion with your Necromancer job, if you'd allow. ^^;
go ahead and criticize, flame, suggest, or edit all you want, as long as you don't insult me personally ;)

[kazuri]

Ah, ok. ^^

What did you mean by Necro. summons? Did you mean they get some special type of undead (example: Archlich), like how Summoners obtain stuff like Ifrit; through the quests? When I usually hear a "Necromancer", I think of 'Ah, raising an army of undeads and raising hell.' I've thought of a Necromancer class in FFXI, the way I imagined undead summons would be by learning through a scroll. They'd get 'Beckon:' spells. Anything from Beckon: Skeleton to Beckon: l337undeadthatcansolokirin, something like that. They could also be givin some weak Black Magic spells, and some special their own, like adding Curse status, Weakened, etc.

[iglak]

i had originally thought like that, and that could very well be the course of the job.

however, since enemies do not stay around after dying, you certainly can't use their bodies as pets, so there needs to be another way to get undead pets.

and since the SMN system is already in place, i thought that necromancers could have a similar system. i am not entirely sure what types of summons they would have though, other than the standard "skeleton". and i wasn't thinking anything in relation to special summons like SMNs get, i couldn't think of a way to make that part of the job work very well.

as for extra spells, i was thinking that it could be similar to SMNs, casting spells through their summons.


what would a "Beckon: undead" spell do exactly?


and the pirates that attack ships in-game cast spells with the same motion as SMNs, although that could be changed in an update if wanted or needed.

[kazuri]

"however, since enemies do not stay around after dying, you certainly can't use their bodies as pets, so there needs to be another way to get undead pets."

Yep, exactly what I thought. Although it would be a nice feature to 'raise' enemies and use them to battle (kinda like Charm or something, eh?), the bodies are un-selectable once they're dead, so... T_T

As for my idea of "Beckon: (name)" spells, they're kinda like what the pirates on Mhaura-Selbina ferry do. Just cast, and a undead soldier, etc appears, the way you would control them would be somewhat similar to a SMN's and BST's Pet Control. As the recast time is off, you'll be able to cast again, creating TWO undeads. Now, I know this sounds way too rigged, if the battle takes a long time, you could well up summon upto ~20 undeads or something. They'd have to be nerfed down somehow... but the more I think about it, your way with the special 'avatars' of obtaining them through quests sounds a lot easier.

And yes, S-E would DEFINATELY need to change the summoning motion for a Necromancer. If it's the same as a Summoner's... bah. :<

[Astridir]

Dancer.




Thats all i gotta say.





Dancer

[iglak]

Originally posted by kazuri
As for my idea of "Beckon: (name)" spells, they're kinda like what the pirates on Mhaura-Selbina ferry do. Just cast, and a undead soldier, etc appears, the way you would control them would be somewhat similar to a SMN's and BST's Pet Control. As the recast time is off, you'll be able to cast again, creating TWO undeads. Now, I know this sounds way too rigged, if the battle takes a long time, you could well up summon upto ~20 undeads or something. They'd have to be nerfed down somehow... but the more I think about it, your way with the special 'avatars' of obtaining them through quests sounds a lot easier.
ah, that would be interresting, but that would get to be too many pets after a while, like you said, so there has to be some limit, like mana drained at a fixed rate (like SMNs), and that rate is multiplied depending on how many summons you have out. and yeah, then the summons would have to be a bit weak to make it balanced. if there is more than one pet though, they can't be controlled like a SMN's avatars, because there's no way to tell which pet you want to cast a spell or whatever, but you could have the entire group do certain things still. maybe some combo attacks and spells... and there's nothing that says such "beckon" spells can't be obtained through quests similar to SMN avatar quests ;):biggrin:

[Codered]

I think they should bring out a Blue Mage! :)

[Cooncon]

I want Gamblers.

[Fingus]

Some mage job made for those races that don't have a lot of MP, like Galka and Elvaan.

Was kinda thinking of something like an Alchemist or Gadgeteer.
They use advanced bastokan/moblin mechanics or science to fake magic. Low or no amount of MP needed, just things like ninja tools or stuff like Hydro Pumps and Batteries. That stuff... If you have any knowledge with Warhammer, think Skaven Warlock Engineers. ;)

Could maybe make the effects a bit random just to toss in some elements from the good 'ol Gambler in there. ^^

When I think of it. They got a good basis for a job quest with CoP.
Cid or someone in the Metalworks sends you to Movalpos to check on the rumors about Moblins having super advanced technology rivaling Bastok. You snoop around, get to talk with some moblins, gets sent a bit here and there to do stuff so you can pay for their awnsers and on the way learns the trick of Enginnered Artifical Magic.

"You can now become an Engineer! Huzzah for you!"

[kazuri]

Originally posted by iglak
ah, that would be interresting, but that would get to be too many pets after a while, like you said, so there has to be some limit, like mana drained at a fixed rate (like SMNs), and that rate is multiplied depending on how many summons you have out. and yeah, then the summons would have to be a bit weak to make it balanced. if there is more than one pet though, they can't be controlled like a SMN's avatars, because there's no way to tell which pet you want to cast a spell or whatever, but you could have the entire group do certain things still. maybe some combo attacks and spells... and there's nothing that says such "beckon" spells can't be obtained through quests similar to SMN avatar quests ;):biggrin:

Hm... why wouldn't you be able to control over 1 pet? They'd be called like #1, #2, etc and it'll be on their names or something... wouldn't that work? Or is Pet Command set in some way so you can't do this. Wasn't a BST or SMN, never tried out Pet Cmd. D;
Gradual MP drain for summoned stuff is a must, or a NEC can have SMN sub for Auto Refresh, a Verm Cloak, Refresh and Ballad I/II and mass cast armies of undeads. D; It'd have to be something like... the drain rate gets bigger as you level up. "Beckon" spell scrolls can be obtained through quests only now, that's what I'd have done. Think, why would peaceful Vana'diel vendors sell scrolls for evil magic? D;

Gotta say that Engineer job idea is really unique and pwn~ did you think of it from FFTA by any chance? Moogles, and their skills are random... If you'd allow, I'd like to go into details in that job :D

[Fingus]

Go ahead, it's not like I have copyright on the idea... ;)