CHR doesnot help aggro

[Purvy]

if the interview below is correct then the theory that CHR helps with vokes would be false. Although i have heard arguments for both and i had gear to boost CHR just in case i guess its time to switch over to the +vit rings.


Does Charisma effect Enmity/Hate(aggro)? Or is it only for Bard songs and Beastmaster charms?

"The charisma attribute score does not effect enmity(aggro). It does however effect how a bards songs and beastmasters charm ability are not only used but resisted. There are also weapon skills that are greatly effected by charisma."

interveiw link

http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/viewinterview.asp?Id=272

[TheBruce]

Tell me why Koenig armor has the same amount of Charisma boosts as Vitality boosts. That set is specifically designed to tank hnm's. Why would squaresoft boost charisma by 60 points if it had no bearing on tanking.

[Nodoka]

>Why would squaresoft boost charisma by 60 points if it had no bearing on tanking.


To allow players to "express their individuality"! :thumbsup: Or maybe it's to make the tank so good looking that the HNM wont want to attack anyone else.



Anyway, it's about time SE cleared the BS about CHR and +enmity. ~.~ Although the mentioned something about CHR and weapon skills.. o.O;;;

[Skyes]

I am wondering if CHR helps boosting the Undead Killer or Holy Circle or Beast Killer if you equip General Shield. I am going to test this out once I get home.

[LordBiGGs]

the guy just asked the wrong question. he asked if chr helps with emnity/hate, not if it helps specifically with provoke.

[Abriael]

LordBiggs just hit the nail straight on the head.
Charisma does NOT passively help the enemity bonus of a characters (IE= 2 CHA is NOT equal to +1 or -1 enemity)
But from what i experimented (2 characters of the same level provoking the same mob at the same time, but with very different scores in charisma) it DOES affect provoke.
The one with higher charisma will always get the mob on himself, wheter he provokes first or second or at the same time with the other.

[Atoman]

I'm not sure how it affects a pld but chr is there for a reason I'm sure. Koenig armor, AF, and high lvl shields all have a large amount of chr to them, in addition, pld has one of the highest chr natural stats after brd and bst, these aren't here by accident I'm sure.

[Nodoka]

All I have to say is this:

SE has never favored one job/subjob combo than another. No job would EVER have a bonus that helps a subjob. If CHR helped Voke, then Wars would be the sexiest fighters alive. Not PLD.

[XerO-CooL]

Originally posted by Nodoka
If CHR helped Voke, then Wars would be the sexiest fighters alive. Not PLD.

wrong. go back to the BLM forum :/

[Nodoka]

If you're right then answer this:
Why would SE give +stats for an ability a job doesnt have. SE doesnt favor any job/subjob combo.

Look at the AFs, they are filled with crazy stats. Does that mean anything?


And before you go around saying I should care about this, I should. I dont want PLD out there pumping out CHR for this belief it helps voke. I mean.. even if you are right and it helps Voke, PLD are perfectly capable of maintaining hate without a bunch of CHR gear. I'd rather see my tanks have +Vit or +Def (whichever is better for the situation) than +Chr items. It's not like a Pld depends solely on voke for hate.


Just my 2 gil. :spin:

[TheBruce]

It's not like a Pld depends solely on voke for hate.

Actually, in hnm fights that is usually what a paladin does... A cure III and flash every now and again, but an hour long fight means u gotta conserve your mana.

And honestly, about the whole SE wouldn't give stats for a subjob... Come on, SE knows that pld/war is the only true combo for pld's, except pld/nin post 74 but even that is limited.

[Cali]

Anyway, back to topic, CHR affects the range of detection according to japanese, they didn't say more CHR=further range or shorter... I would assume CHR would increase range as it goes up, the most... eyes catching thing always get eaten 1st? so may b PLD is actually a lurer? lol

off-topic: monk gets MND from AF, amen....

[TheBruce]

mnd for monk is chi blast. So no, squaresoft usually doesn't boost useless stats.

[Lan'Urk]

Look at the DRG equipment. They clearly add bonuses for differnt SJ combos. Why do some lances add MP to DRGs....

I strongly believe that CHR adds to Provoke I have conducted a few tests with a Galka friend and seems to work fine for me. even him having +emnity and I dont (Sam AF2), but its just speculation, I still want to put my hands on Koieing set and adaman to try the difference in CHR and Enmity out, exactly...lol

~Lanurk

[Purvy]

i'm not sure about CHR helping voke or not i think the only real way to test it is to have 2 identical chars, same race and lvls to test voking mobs off of each other. this is hard though because either of you hitting the mob or the mob hitting either of you could effect enmity. but who knows there may be other stats that will make more of a difference who knows. As far as why is there a big boost to CHR on AF gear maybe it matters in either for some of the weapon skills for 1-H sword or a Greatsword? or shield bash? if i can find another galka PLD my lvl on my server who will help me i can try and test some things. but i think for a test to really be of any use it has to be identical stats all the way around then maybe use rings to boost 1 stat in paticular to see how it effects a paticular ability.

[Jaxon]

CHR doesn't generate aggro it is use to keep the mob on you then you do the rest to keep the hate with other hate abilities. I always out provoke other melee classes (except war with body af) I dont think we need to worry about CHR its just good voking thats all, we got others skills to hold the hate :thumbsup:

[Altruist]

No one here has any actual evidence, that has been well tested, pointing to a few odd ball stat bonuses means nothing. How much chr does Aegishjalmr have? try -7. Hell, as an rdm apparently my +5 chr must be really important maybe my convert works better, so I better go get myself an opo~opo crown. In all reality the only jobs with +chr odd ball modifiers are rdm and pld, both use 1h sword with lots of light based weapon skills if you want to imply anything that would be the most logical.

[AtraposBLM]

my af gives me +3 chr O.o

I better watch out ; ;

[DrSerpico]

So after reading a lot about this chr issue, I decided to do some tests.

I find me a level 33 mithra war, get her in on the deal, pull out my old farmed bird whistle, and off we go.

Test goal:
Discerning whether chr helps hold hate, and wether it affects provoke in any way.

Test setup:
Both wars in similar armor, no base boosts on chr.
Unequipped weapons.

Location: South Gustaberg.
Target: Worm.

Results:
First round, Me in rse boots (+2chr) and bird whistle (+3chr) totaling 5chr more than the other war.

countdown from three and simultaneous provoke.
I get hate 5 of 5 times.

we trade over the chr stuff, and then go again.
Her in chr gear. Countdown, simultaneous voke.
She gets hate 5 of 5 times.

Didn't note any difference in mob keeping hate after we let it hit us in any way due to chr. I'm trusting S-E when they say chr is not related to enmity, and to HOLDING aggro passively.

Chr however, does directly affect provoke.
This I am DEAD sure about.

(edit: We were both mithran, and both level33, just wanted to clarify. So both had EXACTLY the same base chr.)

[Lan'Urk]

The theory is that CHR determines the power of Provoke not general emnity. Indeed there arent any hard evidence of this, hence a Theory, but many who have tested this theory have gotten to the conclusion that it has a high probability of being correct. I am personaly not sure, from the tests I made it seemed that It did affect but those tests werent very conclusive.

Just keep testing, maybe we will come up with an answer soon.

~Lanurk

[sudo]

ok just to help clear something up.

There are armor sets in the game that are not fully translated. This is true of very high lv things in the game such as the ice shield. Bst CAN use that thing.

The koening shield has "+ beast killer ability". That is a lv 70 bst passive trait. There is no way that can be on there for pld which can not get that trait unless the level cap was 140. It will be fun to have +3 enemenity as a bst though.... won't be fun but it'll be a challenge to bst out there to figure if they want to use the shield or not. (maybe equipment swap macro) The +chr was meant for bst to use, I don't think pld gets much out of that CHR stuff. (maybe the set would let lv 75 bst charm things in dynamis that were impossible before?)

I know this because I saw a bst running around with an ice shield and when I checked him the shield said pld/drk only.

I called a GM and he told me that the japanese didn't expect americans to get to lv 75 anytime soon so they concentrated in making sure the lower lv stuff was translated and ignored the higher lv items so there are mistakes.

[DrSerpico]

What more proof do you need than equal characters and 100% aggro on the one with higher char?

I did another test after reading Lan'urks' fairly enthusiastic response, same characters, different mob, same setup.

(I had to pay her 500 gil to do it, but didn't have time to argue about with someone for too long ^^)

This time we voked Hornets in south gusta.

20 vokes with me in chr gear. Guess what? I got hate 20 of those times.

We switch gears. With her in chr gear, we do another 20 vokes.
She got hate 20 times. (I made a stack of beehive, so I went about 2k + on the deal. Farming AND testing stuff, yay! ^^)

So out of 40 vokes, 100% of the time the higher chr gets hate first. Then after one or two hits, she gets hate due to mob damaging me and lessening my hate. (This suggests chr not affecting abillity to KEEP hate, but well to GENERATE it.)

Anyone else who's done this kind of test? I'd like to hear if anyone has gotten DIFF results, such as 95% or something like that. Ah well, all for now.

[thefallenranger]

paladins naturally have high charisma, and its only natural they get it from their armor. true its not a D&D paladin but tradition is tradition i guess. now where's my turn undead and smite evil.

[xarddrax]

Why would a PLD/WAR want +CHR???

It does, however, affect how a bard`s songs and a beastmaster`s charm ability are not
only used but also resisted. There are also weapon skills that are greatly
affected by charisma.

It would suck to have a PLD,....your main hate holder, charmed by a beastman BST. With a PLD charmed you have not only a beast after you, but your main person to keep the beast under control after you. We've all been in battles where the PLD dies and the beast goes for whoever he wants and hate bounces around everywhere or the WHM gets all the hate and dies.
Not a fun time.
Also with new WS being added, whos to say they wont release some great WSs that will seriously use CHR in the future.

Doesnt always have to big a hidden secret ultimate reason.

[lokyst]

Originally posted by DrSerpico
What more proof do you need than equal characters and 100% aggro on the one with higher char?

I did another test after reading Lan'urks' fairly enthusiastic response, same characters, different mob, same setup.

(I had to pay her 500 gil to do it, but didn't have time to argue about with someone for too long ^^)

This time we voked Hornets in south gusta.

20 vokes with me in chr gear. Guess what? I got hate 20 of those times.

We switch gears. With her in chr gear, we do another 20 vokes.
She got hate 20 times. (I made a stack of beehive, so I went about 2k + on the deal. Farming AND testing stuff, yay! ^^)

So out of 40 vokes, 100% of the time the higher chr gets hate first. Then after one or two hits, she gets hate due to mob damaging me and lessening my hate. (This suggests chr not affecting abillity to KEEP hate, but well to GENERATE it.)

Anyone else who's done this kind of test? I'd like to hear if anyone has gotten DIFF results, such as 95% or something like that. Ah well, all for now.

Do the test again with a control. Have neither of you wear the CHR+ but keep the rest of the method the same.

[Dark-Cress]

When i re-read that answer from S-EX, i get the strange idea that provoke could get resisted to a point. Im sure we all have had those times where the puller gets hate back after the melee attacks once, or you provoke only to have it turn around again for no reason... very interesting...hmmm

[Arximiro]

I think that the mob turning around for an od reason like that is a bug that isnt fixed, Just like when u Fudima sometimes the hate will go to a melee standing on the side of the mob, No one knows why, maybe its jus a glitch.