Help attracting high lvl players to help me with coffer keys??????

[Mikasa]

OK, I know about skill up parties and stuff, but the problem is the language difference.

How do I attract these high lvl people who speak Japanese to come and help me in a skill-up party? I want to skill-up and search for coffer keys at the same time, but I have a problem.



The auto-translator is crap, and I have to type in English to say what I want to.

So, does anyone have some thing on the auto-translator that they typed in Jeuno and lvl 55+ people actually helped them?

[surlung]

Best way is to get a JP friend, and get him to shout for you.

I've done it few times this way, and got people in no time.

Secondly, DO NOT USE TRANSLATOR like this:

/sh (Excuse me..) (Help me out!) (Artifact) coffer (Davoi) (Thank you).

I can tell you 99% of the JPs give rat's ass about these kind of shout, because it doesn't make much sense when they are shown in japanese.

Rather, just shout in plain english, and use translator for only important part - like location (Castle Oztroja).

Also. It's important that you get at least 1-2 high level help BEFORE you start shouting. It will increase your chance ten fold of other people joining -

for example,
/sh Looking for help with (castle oztroja) coffer key!
/sh 2 Ppl now (57drk, 75pld)
/sh If you need key or SKILL UP or (Limit)5 (item), please join/help.

Hopefully this helps.

[Zafron]

I could follow you around with my lv20 whm of maximum pwn casting cure II :biggrin:

But then again that probably wouldn't be much help :(

Sorry Mikasa, i'm just too noob i guess.

[XerO-CooL]

what i'm not really getting is how theres a Japanese translation for the word "Oztroja." Maybe i'm not understanding the japanese language correctly, but isn't japanese about symbols and words isntead of single letters or something? Hard for me to comprehend it i guess :[

[KamaAina]

try this not every JP speaks roumaji but the ones that do will appreciate the extra touch

/t (insert name) Sumimasen ~<Coffer> <Davoi> tetsudai moraemasen ka? onegai ^^

not /shout but /tell

[Mikasa]

/t (insert name) Sumimasen ~<Coffer> <Davoi> tetsudai moraemasen ka? onegai ^^

Kama, I have done this before, but this causes one problem.

THEY RESPOND TO ME IN JAPANESE :)

I have no idea what they're saying, so, I just keep repeating something like the statement you have given me above


Kama, if you're willing to do this, or anyone else for that matter, could you tell me what that means, and some common responses by teh japanese to that question, and what they;re responses mean, and how I can respond back? You know, just a few key phrases of common answers, if possible ;P

unfortunately, i don't know a word of japanese ^^

[Emerok]

Yea, i am in need of high level help too for my AF2 in the eldieme necropolis. I tried the translator but i guess they don't respond because its all broken up when translated to japanese. I'll try some of that romanji see if it works. If anyone has any other shouts i can use that they know for sure are effective that would be cool.

[Faluzure]

This post will be to possibly maximize your potential in getting help from all people who are willing to help players.

There should be enough American players by now that are in their 60s that could help you out. If you insist on JP players to help you, then you have to do the Autotranslator or Romaji. Personally I think romaji sucks because its very confusing to the Japanese players. There are two ways to type in Romaji, these are Kunrei and Hepburn. Pretty much all Japanese players, if they understand romaji at all, will use the Kunrei style. For the rest of the world, the Hepburn style is mainly used. So that itself causes differences. In addition, you're using English letters to spell a Japanese word, so they will read it slowly if they choose to read it at all.

Now.. with that said. /shouts are the best way to get help but there is a line between just shouting & spamming. There is nothing wrong with this *IF* you shout at respectable intervals. For example, don't spam your message 10 times over a 5 second period, or even a 10 second period. You should at least wait 20-30 seconds per shout minimum. Usually, if you do 1 shout per zone in Jeuno (Port -> Lower -> Upper -> Rulude), by the time you get back to Port, it will have been well over a minute since your last shout.

As for what to include in the shout, include both English & Japanese versions of the shout. As I said, there are many English players that are well in their 60s who can help you just as well as the Japanese can. So you'll want help from them too, after all your goal is for the key right? Key drops aren't affected by race or language. :)

So your shout could be what Mikasa said:
/shout Sumimasen <Coffer> <Davoi> tetsudai moraemasen ka? onegai ^^ (But I ususally say something different than that (the sentence is kind of odd in structure/grammar), but that should get you a response from a Japanese player nevertheless.)

You can probably get a better response if you elaborate on the shout. For example:
/shout Sumimasen. AF <Coffer> <Monastic Cavern> tetsudai moraemasen ka?
/shout Ima X <member/player> desu.
/shout (Then list the level & jobs of each member.)
/shout Can anyone help me with the Coffer key in Monastic Cavern?
/shout There are currently X members.
/shout They are (list levels & jobs of each member).


This shout should give you a lot more responses than the one Mikasa said. Why? You're asking for help in a specific area but not only that, you're talking to English & Japanese players both (you attract both kinds of players). In addition, you're adding detail to how many people you currently have & their levels. This can be the turning point of someone responding to your shout (people are more likely to help you if you already have a party assembled. This also means less wait time, especially for players who don't want to commit for an extended period or those who can't play much longer).

Remember, this is a huge shout, so please don't spam it too often. At least wait 30 seconds before typing it again per zone. This is the bitchiest part about getting parties/alliances so you will need tons of patience. Those of you that are familiar with my adventures, I had to wait 45 minutes for my Zilart Mission last weekend before I got enough people.

[bside]

ok, from a japanese player's point of view, i guess i have a lot of things to tell u guys here. (yes, i'm a japanese player.)

first of all, whatever comes out of the crappy auto-translator usually makes enough sense to us, to at least make us understood what u r asking for. just as an ironical example, if someone comes to u and say like "New York" "me" "want" "go" u'll understand this guy wants to go to New York. don't even argue about the English grammar here coz i speak American lol. sorry, i was just kidding...

well, anyways. having said that, why do we NOT respond to such shouts? coz we know from the start, that whoever is shouting doesn't speak Japanese, and we don't wanna deal w/ the hassle of having to struggle talking. this is sadly so obvious and well-known, that many Japanese players just hate to deal w/ the second language, which in this case, is English. and some Japanese players even consider this kinda shouts to be annoying.

so, using the auto-translator doesn't really help. it might catch eyes of some Japanese players, who happen to have spare time and r kind enough to understand that whoever is shouting needs help. but like surlung says, it'll be ignored for 99% of the time. and whoever do respond usually speaks some English anyways.

so, it'll be better to shout in comeplete English and Japanese sentences. this way, ppl have better understanding of what u need, and also, because this is not an auto-translator, ppl like it better. (easy psychology)


now, moving onto the next thing, here's a piece of advice. i don't recommend sending /tell to an unknown Japanese player asking for help. this action is considered very rude in Japanese culture. why, u ask? well the answer is simple. it the culture. period. in some cases, u may get their help, but in most cases, either ignored, or even blacklisted. and let me tell u, many of Japanese players still remember the beggers back in Nov and still hate them.

also, "not every JP speaks roumaji" is NOT correct. it's not because they don't understand it, but because we get fed up w/ reading it.


last but not least, XerO-CooL's wonders. Japanese language uses 3 different types of letters. they r Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji.

Kanji r originally Chinese characters, and each characters possess meanings. this is why we, Japanese ppl, understand some written Chinese, because characters possess meanings, and they r the same, even though pronounced differently.

Now, unlike Kanji, Hiragana and Katakana letters do NOT possess meanings, but they only have set sounds. this is what differs from English; a letter "u" maybe pronounced very differently depending on how it's used, but w/ Hiragana and Katakana, they always have the same sounds. (w/ a few exceptions, though) and Japanese words r the product of those sounds.

for instance, the first-person noun "I" is "�" in Japanese. (note that this is either feminine, or in formal way.) while "�" is Kanji, it's also written as "���" in Hiragana. and the way it's pronounced is "wa-ta-shi" and of "���" "�" is pronounced as "wa", "�" is pronounced as "ta" and "�" for "shi." unlike English, even when those 3 Hiragana letters r put in sequence, no sound is lost or changed. as an example of it, "��" or "wa-ta" is pronounced exactly the same as the first 2 part of "���" but this word means completely different. "��" or "綿" when properly written in Kanji, means "cotton."

now, choosing between Kanji and Hiragana is really difficult to tell, so for now, just understand this as that we have different letters in Japanese and all r used depending on circumstances.

now, choosing between Hiragana and Katakana is rather easier. Katakana is usually used for a noun that originated outside of Japan. for instance, "�ナナ" is pronounced as "ba-na-na." u know what this is now, don't u? in Hiragana, that's written as "���" but because that word is not of a Japanese origin, it's written in Katakana, thus "�ナナ."

now, finally coming to the original question "how theres a Japanese translation for the word 'Oztroja.' " answer first, it's written as "オズト�ヤ." now that u've read above, i hope u can kinda "sense" it's Katakana. well, it's a Japanese "game-company" origin, but because the existance of the name is foreign to Japanese language, it's in Katakana. and, because Katakana letters only possess sounds, u don't have to know what that is to pronounce it correctly. any Japanese ppl can read this name correctly even if he/she doesn't know anything about ffxi.


long post, but hope this clears up things.


EDIT: fixed a part where Japanese characters got corrupted. one part has been changed to the similar "character" so that it'll be better understood.

[laxgod]

bside, while your post was very long :) , it was also very helpful. It's interesting trying to understand things from the other side and how Japanese players view us and our actions.

[Mikasa]

so, it'll be better to shout in comeplete English and Japanese sentences

thats the problem, i can't speak any japanese :)

sometimes, i do get a response, IN JAPANESE, and I have no idea what they're saying, and they keep talking to me in japanese, and im like..... O_O


i don't know what to do

[Faranim]

Sadly, if you want Japanese Players to help you, you will need to know how to speak Japanese.

What a concept!

Honestly shouting the usual auto-translate garbage is not only bad for the Japanese, but it's also irritating to NA players as well.

Which of the following is more understandable?

{Excuse me...} AF {treasure}{key}{Help me out!} {Castle Oztroja}! {Thank You.}

or

Excuse the Shouting, would anyone be interested in helping find Coffer keys in {Castle Oztroja}? I'd really appreciate it.

Obviously the second one.

now, 99.999% of the time people shout that auto-translate garbage and like what others have already said, 99.9999% of the Japanese players won't even bother reading it because they know it's coming from a NA player who doesn't speak Japanese.

If you want Japanese players to help you, you'll need to either Learn Japanese, or find a friend who knows japanese to shout for you.

I just wish Square would let us type Japanese Characters using the NA version of FFXI :mad:

Anyone know where I can download the Japanese PlayOnline Client? :confused: :sweat:

[InuTrunks]

I can understand both just fine...

[Faluzure]

The autotranslator is a piece of junk but at least you can comprehend what the player is trying to say. And no, you don't HAVE to know how to speak Japanese. That's total BS. Yes you have an advantage if you can speak it, but that doesn't mean you won't ever get any help.

You're making an assumption that 99.9999% of JP players won't bother reading the autotranslator. Maybe its like that on your server but I have tons of NA players I've met that have gotten help with the Translator and they cant' speak a damn word of Japanese. There are Japanese players that are kind enough to go out of their way to help an American player even though they can't speak any English whatsoever. You just have to find them and the only way to do that is by doing shouts.