What do you think is the best subjob for blm?

[stalker0]

Im just wandering what do you think is the best sub job for a blm?

[almighty_boof]

If you looked through the forum, you'd know that it was debated for a long time. Well not a debate but just freindly "conversation" about it. Read throgu the forum to find out why WHM is the best sub.

[Phoenixtail]

yep whm is best sub by far! i use it

[wyzat]

wouldnt fast cast from rdm sub own for a blk to be able to use? As a blk/rdm you'd still get some healing spells but nothing as good as what a /whm would have

[MidgardPlas]

Fast cast is really not very useful. There was a rather long debate about this a couple of weeks ago, use the search function to try to find it.

WHM sub is much more useful in a party setting. Curaga, divine seal, and -na status cures are all more useful than anything you can get from RDM sub. Curaga + DS is really nice for downtime healing and can be used as a sort of ghetto Benediction in a really ugly situation. BLMs should try handle as much of the downtime healing as possible to help take some of the MP burden off the primary healer.

Having an extra person casting status cures is really nice when a mob uses an AOE paralysis/blind/etc. ability that hits all of your melees. A BLM with Silena can sometimes mean the difference between life and death for your party. Example: One time while XPing on Anticans in Quicksands, our Protectra/Shellra wore off in the middle of a battle. The WHM in my party ran up to the frontliners to rebuff, but right as he got there, the Ant used his AOE silence ability, which put us in a really tight spot because we had a NIN tank who NEEDED to be able to cast ninjitsu blink in order to stay alive. Our RDM couldn't Silena because he had BLM subbed, so that left me as the only member in the pt with Silena. I cast it on the WHM, who in turn cast it on the NIN and we hardly missed a step. If RDM had been my sub in that situation, I would have been casting Escape instead, because we'd have been stuck with no primary healer and a tank that had lost his primary means of defending himself and holding aggro. And I'd imagine the ANT probably could have killed at least the NIN during Escape's cast duration, if not the WHM as well. Needless to say, WHM sub saved the day.

[Yuanlung]

/points at the sticky thread (http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34981) at the top of the forum titled "...sub discussion"

[evilution]

yah fast cast isnty that big of a help

i have both RDM and WHM sub level'd up and groups always want WHM.

I can also burst 2 level 3 -aga's in a 3 man chain with both subs... so RDM really is a moot point.

[Oompa]

This is the first time I've ever posted my opinion on this, so here goes...

WHM is a great sub for BLM, there's no doubt. But unfortuantely the higher in the levels you get, the more damage you have to do to kill a mob. Isn't that what we're there for? I see way too often the higher leveled japanese BLMs never nuking but maybe once or twice a fight and ONLY healing people. This tells me two things. First, that the WHM isn't doing their job and is pretty much a waste of space in the party, better suited for another DRK, DRG, RDM, whatever. Why waste XP on a useless WHM that won't keep up with the times and do their job. Second it means the BLM isn't doing HIS job. We all have very specific jobs in our partys and we are needed to be very good at those jobs. What makes a BLM a good BLM? Well, this is a debate that also could do on for hours or days with several differing opinions. However, in my personal experiance being the best BLM means you have the highest INT possible, the highest elemental and dark skill possible, and the most MP to use with those powerful nukes. What doesn't make a BLM cause more damage is his ability to help the party out in an emergency by healing. BLMs have their own "emergency spells" they use. Like Escape, Warp II, Warp, and God forbid, Tractor.

So after my little rant you may be wondering what I think is truely the best sub for BLM. Well, that'd have to be SMN of course, and here's my thinking behind it.

1) With SMN sub you get a higher INT boost than with WHM.
2) You get "obviously" more MP.
3) You get Auto-refresh keeping your RDMs focusing on your WHM, PLD, and DRKs more than on you.
4) You get some very nice buffs that help the party out and most importantly help the WHM out. Blinkga can reduse the number of cures your WHM has to use causing less hate on him and keeping your tanks happy.
5) You can pull without the fear of links. Always a problem at higher levels as most mobs seem to be very "sociable".
6) You can do what you're there to do, cause lots and lots of damage. You won't be expected to heal, backup heal, emergency heal, or waste your precious MP on anything other than what you came to do, kill stuff.

WHM is by far the most "versitle" subjob for BLM, but why do you want versitility when you're there for one purpose? It's the best bet when soloing or completing missions, but on a standard day when you are just XPing, it's SMN all the way. With a little planned strategy SMN can prove to make you a very powerful nuker with virtualy endless MP. On a stanard fight against beetles in King Ranperes Tomb I cast Burn-Choke-Shock-Blizzard II-Aspir then go on with Blizzard and Blizzard II alternating. Once the timer on Aspir is done, I cast again. I always get in 400 damage on Magic Bursts and usually do between 200-350 damage on standard nukes. I've never had any complaints on my play style and get several regular invites to partys from peple I've partied with before. Everyone loves the Blinkga and can't get enough of the damage I do. With a good Palidan you can do a magic burst for 1200 damage and never get hit either. On top of that, you just burnt 350MP but you'll STILL be full up before anyone else is ready to pull again. I've never had a party wait for me...ever.

Take what I say for what you will. I'm not forcing my opinon on anyone nor am I saying any subjob sucks (other than WAR, etc) for BLM. You pick what you want to do, but remember, as a BLM, people look at you to do the job of your subjob a lot more often than with other jobs. It's not fair for a BLM to be expected to heal their party during a battle, nor would it be fair to expect the Thief to sub WHM to heal the party when they're not trick/sneak/viper bite the mob.

[riceburner4540]

On a stanard fight against beetles in King Ranperes Tomb I cast Burn-Choke-Shock-Blizzard II-Aspir then go on with Blizzard and Blizzard II alternating. Once the timer on Aspir is done, I cast again. I always get in 400 damage on Magic Bursts and usually do between 200-350 damage on standard nukes. I've never had any complaints on my play style and get several regular invites to partys from peple I've partied with before. Everyone loves the Blinkga and can't get enough of the damage I do. With a good Palidan you can do a magic burst for 1200 damage and never get hit either. On top of that, you just burnt 350MP but you'll STILL be full up before anyone else is ready to pull again. I've never had a party wait for me...ever.

funny...i do the exact same thing, except i'm taking on helm beetles in crawler's instead...but i'm a hume blm/whm. nobody ever has to wait for my mp. against these beetles, your blinkga will save the paladin from getting hit 2-3 times....thats what? a cure II (with regen II on)? cure III at most, cuz lets face it. with a good paladin, nobody else will be getting hit so the additional blinks is sorta wasted...and it takes 92 mp. i'd rather save that 92 mp for nuking and have the whm expend 46 mp on a cure III. in my static group, i never have to heal during battles, so i mainly just nuke...but its nice to know my /whm sub is there in case something does go wrong, like an antican's silence or any other nasty AE.

as a blm/smn, you can nuke *slightly* better and have a near limitless mp pool, and are able to pull if the situation calls for it, but really, that is all you're limited to. i do the exact same thing (except i don't pull) as any blm/smn, with the nuking and all. i don't really worry about my mp much, and i have /whm in case the party needs an extra -na spell or someone to cast a bar spell while the whm is busy healing or something. overall, i think blm/whm has more to contribute that a blm/smn to any group.

[Mystic Fury]

here are my personal pro's and cons for each of the mage subs to a blm:

WHM:
PROS: most cure spells, -ga line, and -na status cures, decent mp boost,
CONS: least int boost of the three, cookie cutter combo, no additional Mgc Attk Up (i think), no fast cast

RDM:
PROS: nice INT boost, decent cure spells, phalanx and dispel, fast cast, additional Mgc Attk Up, en- line helpful for solo-farming
CONS: worst mp boost, dont really get the higher lvl advantages of rdm, no -na status cures, bar-spells are self only

SMN:
PROS: best mp boost, best INT boost, at 25 and higher the summoner abilities are useful, auto-refresh
CONS: no support healing at all (besides those you get from summon abilities), no extra spells

with that said, i would say that any combination works just as well as the next, each providing a different angle...the SMN sub though requires that you have at least garuda and leviathan to begin to be an effective sub.

[Bamce Sylph]

also another point for whitemage sub, for bcnm 40's the bard MUST live, if he doesn't u loose, subbing summoner does not help you as a blackmage in that case because it doesn't matter who does it, so long as the bard gets healed

[riceburner4540]

RDM: PROS: nice INT boost, decent cure spells, phalanx and dispel, fast cast, additional Mgc Attk Up, en- line helpful for solo-farming

the int difference between /rdm and /whm is 2 at lvl 75/37, if you are hume.

as for the magic attack up...this does nothing...rdm magic attack up and blm magic attack up doesn't stack. there's a thread about this somewhere. traits are given tiers. blm gets magic attack up 1 at lvl 10, 2 at 30, 3 at 50. rdm gets a magic attack up 1 at lvl 20. since blm already has magic attack up 1 (and 2) by the time you get /rdm 20, this doesn't do anything.

and lastly, unless you are duo farming, you'll probably wanna sub thf to maximize profits...so a /rdm sub for farming isn't all that helpful as you won't get treasure hunter. as a blm, whenever i farm, i sub thf and rely only on drain to heal myself.


SMN: PROS: best mp boost, best INT boost, at 25 and higher the summoner abilities are useful, auto-refresh


blinkga (aerial armor) is just about the only useful ability you can get if you sub summoner...and maybe whispering wind when you hit 72/36...but u can easily do a divine seal + curaga at lvl 30/15 blm/whm. leviathan is useless for a /smn. the int boost isn't all that noticeable either, you get a few points more than blm/whm. the only thing you really gain is a massive mp pool, but it isn't that tough to conserve mp anyway and i almost never completely drain my mp during lvling parties.

[Oompa]

Originally posted by Bamce Sylph
also another point for whitemage sub, for bcnm 40's the bard MUST live, if he doesn't u loose, subbing summoner does not help you as a blackmage in that case because it doesn't matter who does it, so long as the bard gets healed

If you think I'm going to sub SMN in a BCNM, you're NUTS! That's the worst thing to try since every bit of curing help is needed during the whole battle.

You guys must be struck with some crappy WHMs. All the whms I party with are on top of things and even with a WHM sub, I end up never using it. I said it once, I'll say it before, WHM is by far the most versitle sub for BLM, but it's not the best to make a BLM do what he does best, kill stuff. Now that I have my AF Gloves, I'll most likely go back to WHM sub for a while to see how it works out, but in the end, I'm sure I'll end up going back to SMN in the end anyway. To each his own, but don't critize people for choosing one way of playing just because it's different than yous. You may think one sub is the best, and that's your opinion. It's not needed for you to be rude to others just because they don't show the same view as you.

The INT difference for Taru at level 56 is +2 INT with SMN sub. That brings me to a total of 99INT at level 56. That's a damn lot of INT, and every bit matters. +2INT can cost you up to 220K with earrings, so don't knock what you can get for free with a specific sub job.

I sub SMN for leveling only. Any other time, I'm always subbed WHM. Even when going after a nasty Warbeak Axe here and there.

[pdac]

Speaking as a red mage, presently levelling up my black mage sub, I'd have to say the debate is rather tricky. Subbing my red mage has provided some help, and the fast cast is a godsend for red mages, its utility not lost on any other main caster job. However, I don't believe that it is effective for all situations. As a red mage, I have blm and smn levelled up, but I'm about to work on whm as well, for subbing with both red mage and black mage. The benefits it brings are quite numerous, and useful in many more situations than red mage - in my opinion, red mage is rather nerfed as a sub. One note however: subbing smn provides a much bigger mp boost, and the various buffs/abilities of the job and its summons are useful in a lot of situations, but not all. I would *not* use it without having most, if not all, of the avatars however, as their utility is indespensable.

Good luck!

[Furious557]

Oompa, thank you! You see that that the basic mold is not required to have fun with this game. If everyone was a Blm/Whm, it takes the originality out of this game. I aplaud you for being different and having good reasons to back up your arguement.

I am also not dogging the Blm/Whm. Everyone knows that this combo is awesome and makes you a crazy valuble member to the party. However, this does not make another sub wrong(well, almost) In the end, a blm is just that... a blm. Have fun with this game and do whatever you want to do. After all, you pay the monthly charge, you should do what you want.

[Kirara]

it all depends on how do you define fun and what you think fun is

however speaking about a game you haven't experienced (or expereienced much) of what you think the game would be fun for isn't a good enough reason i think

blm/smn would result much of waiting for pt (or make pt and do poorly compare to a blm with another sub therefore make bad reputation for yourself) and i believe people all have their limitation of how much one can stand. so eventually blm/smn will either 1, quit the game or 2, change the sub

has their blm/smn career been really "fun" as they thought it would be?

i don't admit once a while doing something out of ordinary is fine
heck i am blm/smn sometimes when i feel rebelious, however when the time it is needed for a group effort to be made, rebelious isn't going to work

and this game, is all about group work

o.o it's an old topic lol

[SkyWing_]

Whm iz tha best sub for a Blm, cuz mainly usin' two mage classes at once will overall raise yur maximum amount of MP which iz always a + for mages.

You'll also be able 2 use both white magic and black magic in tha same battle (yur gonna be able to heal and kick there ass with black ass magic yo)

Hope I've opened sum new light 4 ya bro. :thumbsup:


-l8ter-

[Rahli]

I'd never be a BLM/SMN since I'm a taru. The MP boost isn't really needed since we've got a lot of MP as it is.

BLM/RDM would be pretty good, but IMO BLM/WHM is the best.

[Tsama]

I won't get back in this debate, this one has been going on for a while.

But I will reply to eminem. Dude with /smn sub you get more mp, than you would with a /whm sub.

with a /rdm sub you also get curing spells. All the way up to Cure III. None of the -ga spells. But you still get curing spells.

[FFXITsukasa]

First off you must decide if you want to play a lone Mage job. Like if you want to play just a Black Mage or White Mage. For White Mage a nice sub would be Bard in my opinion and for Black Mage I think Summoner would be a good sub. My reasoning is this. Bard adds the ability to Regen the entire party or Refresh yourself and the other Mage back with you. Summoner adds the extra MP and Intelligence the Black Mages so desperatly seek out. It also gives the ability to pull with your avatars and utilize their special abilities. Go ahead and flame now.