How useful are Thfs at high levels?

[RAstatus]

Bare with me I'm a little new at this and I apologize if this has been asked to death. But I was concerned as to my usefulness lets say from 50 and up.

Will I still get into parties easily?

What can I contribute to the group?

I ask this because I've heard that Thfs aren't really around as much at high levels or at least not as main jobs.


Thanx in advance for anything any of you can tell me.:thumbsup:

[snoop1050]

I'm 46 thief at the moment and cant get group's anymore unless its with people i know ,or japanese group's that dont have paladin tank's :| .
if you do get in english group's its impossible to get them to work with you so you can play thief as it is intended hate control.

I'm thinking about giving up thief and going back to one of my other level 30+ job's.
spending hours seeking with no invite's isnt any fun.

I bet all the really high level thief's without WHM friend's leveled before paladins were in the game ,i think the role of paladin made thief's worthless.

[PhoR]

it wasnt' the role of pld. it was square-enix's stupid move to nerf the living crap out of thf by taking away yokodama.

thf with yokodama = good pt member, even in high lvls.

thf without yokodama = alot of work for the rest of the party.

"WAY TO GO SQUARE-ENIX! you guys ROCK!" </sarcasm>

[Anya]

Thf is always in high demand... to help hunt crap like coffer keys.

[hackattck]

also need thieves ta help with NIN tanking ;D

[Haplo]

Originally posted by Anya
Thf is always in high demand... to help hunt crap like coffer keys.
Unfortunately never for exp ><

[Tythera]

I hear you Haplo. Our server has 8 million melees. I was about to give up until some friends pulled me into their static.

[snoop1050]

meh im gonna switch back to my 41 whm only 5 level's lower than thief ,im gonna make sure i have a thief in every party i join or make :D and i will remember the people who passed me up making there party's *Evil Grin*

[Miluda]

Are they useful in BCNM fights

[RAstatus]

really that's too bad:(

I was kinda hoping to become a high level Thf and always be rich.

But why???:confused:

Why aren't Thfs useful, and what do Paladins have to do with it?

[Haplo]

If you put the effort in you can always be rich. And thieves are great, assuming you have the right classes to skillchain with. Two reasons I don't get in lots of parties is there's a lot of thieves on my server around my level, and thief isn't one of those necessary classes so lots of parties don't even have them.

[Novac]

This is speaking from my own experience.

I don't group with NA players much because they don't even know how to set up fuidama. I've joined a grand total of 2 groups since I hit 42 with NA players (from 45 - 50) and neither of them know how to set up fuidama (even with 2 provokers).

I've got my level to 48 with only once grouping with paladin. Most of the time I group with Ninja and RDM tanks. Yes, RDM tanks with phalanx/stoneskin/blink.

It seem to me that thief is desired when you're using alternative means to tank than the traditional PLD tank. That would explain why NA group doesn't desire a thief because they either doesn't have the means (blink tank is expensive, phalanx is even more expensive) or the ability to coordinate fuidama.

Thief, I would say, needs more teamwork. Maybe when the NA player base matures, you can get an easier group since they will have the means and brains to coordinate fuidama efficiently. Before that, it is pretty hard to get a group. Maybe even worse than a warrior.

[RAstatus]

Oh... I guess since you put it that way it would be kinda hard to get at high level Thf, considering the things you said. Well I guess I'lll just have to sub Thf like everyone else.

:mad: BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY STUPID THAT CERTAIN JOBS BECOME USELESS AT CERTAIN LEVELS!!!:mad:

I think all jobs should have a special thing or place that no other job can fill NO MATTER WHAT! then there'd be more people choosing the less choosen jobs... like Sum, Brd and Bst.

[Roldarin]

I used to think this was all a bunch of whining.... until I got into my early 40s and have gotten 2 groups in the past 2 weeks. I may stick it out to 45 to get TH2, but after that I think its time to switch jobs.

I don't think the problem is purely being a thief. Its a combination of things. Just the other night I saw 4 warriors, 3 DRKs, 2 PLD and me and maybe 1 other thief seeking a pt around my level. So there were more melee than mages available. But I certainly felt like I was gonna be the last one picked.

I think its time to get off my duff and start forming my own parties. I don't expect to be too sucessful doing this, because you can't create mages just because you are a party of 4 melees. But its worth a shot.

Roldarin

[stray]

actually subbing thf is kinda pointless unless you're farming or a drk.

mnk/thf and sam/thf *kinda* work but /war is usually better/more respected/more recommended. raging fists brings alot of hate back anyway.

in the 40's people loved thieves... if i left people looked for another thief to replace. one day i actually bailed on a pt to be their replacement thf and they freaked but it was with someone whose play skill i had to question.

in crawlers and garliage distortion damage off a double thrust or enpi/viper just amounted to absurd numbers. and roaming mobs don't go anywhere when paladins realize they need you.

but then you are of course at the mercy of how many thieves your level there are. and you get those days always when there's nothing but melee lfg and then the next you'll see 4 blm/3whm lfg and no tanks on all vana'diel. everyone gets it rough at higher levels.

[RAstatus]

Gret so I'm gonna have to join the many Drks allready in the game and then run into the same party finding problems theat I would of had if I kept my Thf main

Well I guess bein a Drk/Thf (which was my original plan) is what I'm gonna have to just be. At least I won't haveto be a meat shield.:spin:

[Riskimew]

I think it's not just thieves who don't know how to SA/TA/WS, but groups that don't know how to use THF properly.

I recently was in a very good JP party - my japanese skills are abysmal, but I figured out what they wanted to do. I'd set up behind the tank and announce when my TP hit 100%+. The ranger would unleash with sidewinder from behind the mob, doing enough massive damage to get it to turn. Then I'd let loose with SA/TA/Viper, and between the attack and the chain, it was around 700 damage each time. The ranger was also doing massive damage they couldn't otherwise do without dying from the aggro.

That's the part of the THF job people seem to miss. They understand we're decent damage, or that we're decent hate control - yes, we can SA(+WS) for nice damage, or TA(+WS) for some helpful aggro control. But one thing we can do best is allow damage dealers to do their thing without holding back - all while boosting drops and gil gains.

[RAstatus]

You think it'll ever change... like say people figure this out and then Thfs become desired again???

Cause that would be good then I could be what i want to be:spin: YEAH!!!

[Riskimew]

Your best bet is to take an active role when you get a group, or form your own. And yeah, I know that's a pain in the ass, but it really is what works. Tell your parties about fuidamas, set up WS chains with the other melees. Every class has a problem like this to one degree or another - DRKs get people who expect them to tank, RDMs get skipped over by people who think they're just watered down white/black mages, SMNs get asked to have their summons come out and fight for the whole battle. Some classes have easier time finding groups, but it's due to ignorance. Not because other classes are better.

[PhoR]

i still think they shouldn't have nerfed us so bad.

getting rid of yokodama really took thf off the shelf of good high level jobs. It's just too much work for most groups to use fuidama correctly each and every fight. And now in order to use it more than once on the tank during a battle, you have to have a special group set up. which i think is bs, and i dislike square for thier pig-headed changes.

thf is the ONLY class in this game that has gotten a nerf that badly. most other classes have gotten boosts.

cheers to you square-enix, for making me waste my time.

[Chronce]

I've never partied with my thief. (level 15) So I can't clarify how bad the invites are.

I do know that I very rarely end up partying with a thief unless I am tanking. (Thieves are a warriors second best friend for getting a crapload of hate next to the almighty provoke)

I have witnessed some bad groups though because someone didn't understand the thief class. You can't really blame them if they hardly party with the class or play it. They just don't understand until you slap them around a little.

It's not impossible to level your thief at the late levels though. When you're not getting invites, then you have to make your own. Which actually works out better because you're the head cheese and can work out the plan on what everyone needs to do. True you're still going to have your rough spots in leveling but no one said it was going to be easy

[Vertigo]

I am a level 49 Thief with Warrior sub. From my experience as a thief are the following:

- The thief is useless until it hits level 15. The only way thiefs can be useful this way is if they have warrior sub, so they can provoke if needed when anyone gets in trouble.

- From 15 till 29 a thief is alright, sneak attack does good damage.

- From 30 - 32 the thief gets Trick Attack. Most of the time either the thief himself or the parties he's in have no clue at all how Trick Attack is used effectively. It can however be a very very nice tool!

- From 33 - 50 the thief becomes very useful - the first class to do REAL damage. At level 33 you receive the weapon skill Viper Bite (assuming you are smart enough to take up dagger), which is just incredible. The damage goes up against 550, even on IT's. Together with Double Thrust for example, you get ~250 renkai dmg. Awesome!.

There are moments where I've had problems getting a pt, and there are moments where it goes really easy. I can't say that I feel unwanted as a thief class, and treasure hunter II + lockpicking are awesome extra's you receive.

I'm not too sure what the future will bring regarding me & thief, I plan to level it all the way with war sub. Soon I'll get Double Attack & Triple Attack, awesome combination i think ^-^.

[ZQM]

Originally posted by Vertigo
- From 15 till 29 a thief is alright, sneak attack does good damage.

The only class that has outdamaged me so far is DRK (and I'm sure RNG, but I haven't PTed with one). Given my sneak damage and the added renkei (Always distortion so far), I do roughly the same or outdamage MNK, SAM, WAR, and NIN (Ninjas aren't bad damage dealers this early in the game). This is eating food, but so was my PT. This might change in Kazham, but THF seems to be pretty big damage dealers as of now.

- From 33 - 50 the thief becomes very useful - the first class to do REAL damage. At level 33 you receive the weapon skill Viper Bite (assuming you are smart enough to take up dagger), which is just incredible. The damage goes up against 550, even on IT's. Together with Double Thrust for example, you get ~250 renkai dmg. Awesome!.

I can't wait. :dead:

[KillerQueen]

need more team work,now i'm lv64 THF,and my friend who start playing same as me now lv73 PLD already

at first before can do Yokodama,...im very easy get party but after that it's very hard to get party

"more team work" for JP they think NA THF is suck,dont know the position and time for use fuidama,...THF in high lv need to communicate with other PT,like with who to fuidama+ws

and when you hit lv66 you can have new WS at this point THF will be very very useless compare to other,becoz now other job can make WS lv3 but for THF Shark Bite + Fuidama make very low damage even with Evisceration + Fuidama...Dancing Edge + Fuidama do best damage but can do only lv2 renkei

SQEN should do something about Evisceration becoz it's very totally suck T-T but i will make my THF to lv75 anyway...right now hard to find party but i'm rich :)

[SlipA]

PhoR, thf got nerfed because they were *gasp*, extremely powerful. Thf was single most necessary and effective melee besides the tank. Also the richest class in the game. Also get conveniences like flee, hide, lock picking. Don't need to buy spells despite their money making abilities. Thieves are far from sucky, stop complaining. I would have changed my main to thief a long time ago if I hadn't rolled a crappy elvaan, and too lazy to get high fame and ranks back. If you want to have a legitimate complaint go play sam or summoner. Thf is a great class, and great to have in my parties.

[PhoR]

how high is your thf slipA?

pls get your thf to level 35+ and then tell me it's not a total pain in the backside to get a party. I complain because the nerf was VERY bad. taking out yokodama make thf no longer any good in parties that don't have total cooperation. I'd like for you to name one other job that that totally blows unless he has a specific party setup, and two other party members that know exactly what they're doing. There isn't one.
And as for complaining about sam and smn, I never said those jobs were great. because they're not. But the truth is, both of those jobs are getting better and better with patches. whereas thf is getting worse.

you said thf was too powerful? well let's talk about rdm. should they get severly nerfed as well?

i do not think thf was overpowered with yokodama, they were just much more in demand, it's not like we do any less damage now that we have to fuidama. so how exactly was thf overpowered before, and now it's not.
The only thing square did by taking away yokodama was force thf to work with at least 2 other good players, or they will suck. No other class has to rely that heavily on other players abilities.
(you know how hard it is to find people to party with that will actually listen so that we can use fuidama correctly? no you don't. so don't patronize me kthx.)

[Thark601]

not takin my theif past 37... nuff said

[Elsurion]

I had this week no problems getting a party, i was even asked when i didn't putted the flag up.

Also i normaly haven't the problem talking to the ppls how we should deal the voke of mob and glue trick.

But this falls with the others, if the one with war sup don't want to voke and the tank has to voke it off from you, then this fails. But this isn't the thfs fault, it's the "second" tank's. Also in a party the second was booted because he didn't voked off from me that i can fui on the tank.

Also a good setup can replace a war/pld tank with ease ;) But everyone, and i mean everyone has to know what do do. And you need to have a thf in the party ;)

Yesterday we wheren't able to get a war or pld to tank, we started with a nin as tank. The setup was easy. THF/NIN pulled, i voked THF/WAR and then the THF/NIN fuid on the NIN/?
Also the DRK and DRG was able to use their whole program. Super Jump and Souleater etc. And the NIN did't loose the aggro.

But sadly, the NIN d/cd and wasn't able to comeback. So we lured a second WHM in the group and needed a replacement for the DRG (needed go to work) which was a RNG.

Setup was the following: WHM/SMN WHM/SMN THF/NIN THF/WAR DRK/THF RNG/THF. Which means no real tank, execpt the THF/WAR (me) and the DRK/THF. So what we did was the following, the two whm cured mostly the two tanks, at the beginning it was me to tank (provoke) and when the mob was half, thf/nin used fui on drk, that he was for a while tank, that i could recive some cure. and when he was orange, i voked it back. No Downtime, except manabreaks.

in this party i gained about 6000exp in about 3hrs. including the ~30min break of searching new ppls.

At higher levels you have to know when you can be in a party or when not. Also your rep (played with others and rank) helps to get a party.

And not only THFs will be lfg for a whole day, every job does this.

[SlipA]

PhoR, if your profile is up to date, then my thief is higher than yours :D (by 2 levels). Actually...i have 3 jobs higher than yours, and in my assessment, thief is the best of them at your level. One of them is a redmage, and it's the closest thing to being "overpowered" as you put it, but I prefer making gil and having flee than being refresh waiter and spending craploads of gil on consumed spells. And lets face it redmages are only a great class because of 2 spells, and convert. Bard has dispel, but for a lot cheaper, and they have refreshga. So suddenly they are not so uber. And yes they are good soloists, but it takes a half hour to kill anything it seems, and no reason to solo except to gil farm, where thief wins.

I know thief can be an extremely frustrating job to play if your party is noobtastic. But it is a very rewarding job to play if your group has the mechanics and situational judgement to take advantage of your abilities. I'm sorry you have to depend on others in a team game. If you're still having problems setting up the initial SATA on pull, then your party is absolute noob. Parties that have half a brain and some experience run like butter even with yoko nerf.

The bad side of the nerf is that the 2nd melee pretty much needs provoke. This is pretty craptacular for job options, in a game that is already very limited in that respect.



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'I'd like for you to name one other job that that totally blows unless he has a specific party setup, and two other party members that know exactly what they're doing. There isn't one.'
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Ninja? Usually sucky without a trick buddy and a thief. Not only that they need to sub war and throw money away for exp. It's a tossup for who's 2 hour is better (or worse). And then nin has to farm its butt off with...omg, a thief sub ><.

Blm? Renkei for magic burst anyone? Although job is still excellent without it, it's a lot more satisfying to have the magic burst. And yes, it was a pain in the A$s to get some ppl willing to renkei at low level, and some flat out didnt listen. Notice this problem pretty much went away at a certain level? Fuidama problem mostly dissolves at a certain level, although there are still stubborn ones out there.


Also dont forget thieves allow a party with a non-paladin tank to work. Wars and nins need a thief badly past midgame.


Quote
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"(you know how hard it is to find people to party with that will actually listen so that we can use fuidama correctly? no you don't. so don't patronize me kthx.)"
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Growing pains. No further comment. ;)

[Vertigo]

@ PhoR: just keep leveling, ever since I've hit level 35 I don't really have problems with trick partners, just a rare occasion :P

[Sly]

Well from 40-50 could possibly be the most trouble, but I had a linkshell party so I was fine. But i'd say after level 50, you really start to know people as the players trim down a bit. Since there are not as many 50+ people, its easier to get picked.

Or just play really well. People will go through the list and see you seeking and say "Hey, I remember him, he was a damn good thief. Lets invite him."

and don't forget COFFERS AND CHESTS AND MONEYGREEDRICHMINECASH, *ahem* that is if you're greedy like me:biggrin:

[Epheka]

Who has seen the guy from GMR Magazine latly the person who rights a monthly thing in the magazine.