Jp Pulling Cheaters

[BALD TARU TARU]

camping meegee, some guy pulled it 2 times and both of the times no one saw any animation or anything the guy pop out purple? what the hell cheaters

[TMPikachu]

they have a closer location to the servers, so their game is slightly faster.

They aren't cheating.

I'm suprised you don't know this already, it's been discussed a few times before here.

[tracert]

ha... a guy in my ls had the same problem... i gave hima new macro to use now people are sending him tells left and right calling him a jap peice of shit... i think it's funny...

[TMPikachu]

ooo, what's this mystery macro?

[BALD TARU TARU]

wow just did it 3 times in a row.... i swear even the japanese guy next to me dint see the animation.

[Thark601]

i hear theres 3rd party software that
/ja Provoke <enemie you wanna kill>
automatically the second the monster spawns... no idea if theres truth to it or nto

[BALD TARU TARU]

i know their a bit faster but not so fast as in its purple when it spawns when you dont see the animation or sounds

[cs001x]

Only way you can get the npc before you can see it is make an FFXI macro:

/targetnpc
/ja Provoke <t>

But unfortunately this will target all NPC in the vicinity.

There arent any commands that will target an NPC by it's name alone such as /target <Meegee> or /ja Provoke <Meegee>, or even /target "Meegee" or /ja Provoke "Meegee". None of those work.

[CloudFFVII]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
camping meegee, some guy pulled it 2 times and both of the times no one saw any animation or anything the guy pop out purple? what the hell cheaters

Do us a favor stop your whining and complaining, as well as baseless accusations because your PC is slow, this is a game and there are plenty of other ways to aquire the items that you may be looking for.

You have already been warned how many imes for causing problems?

[cs001x]

CloudFFVII, your too quick to jump you conclusions, he has a VERY valid point.

And Thark is CORRECT there are third party programs the japanese have that only work on JP client and can do MANY things such as scan memory for an NPC names and can target the NPC directly, it's flat out cheating and they have a large advantage.

[Thark601]

Sorry Cloud, but even tho I don't even see the point anymore in camping high dollar nm's, we as NA still do get a disadvantage

[Brer Fox]

This is why I never even think about camping ANY NM if there is but a hint of a Japanese guy around it. Even in the zone at all.

[Aanya]

They really need to start NA only servers.

They should have from the get go, but they didn't. It was supposed to "bridge the online gap" between 2 cultures but it seems like its causing more problems than doing anything good.

If they started NA servers, you'd see all this anti JP talk somewhat chill out (personally I think its funny that people are still so narrow minded as to refer to them as Japs), NA players would quit complaining about the piddly little things that JP's do, and we'd have something to call our own. On top of it, people would become a bit nicer and not so hot tempered over things like NM's etc etc.

Either way mixing it up was a bad idea. We're obviously not mentally advanced enough yet to handle mixing of the races online.

[Paiku]

Seeing how some Japanese also feel the same way about exclusive servers and want some that only they can play in without US players, I guess it wouldn't hurt. All you JP and US bigots who don't like the mix would do well to have your own servers, as I certainly won't miss any of you.

NO AMELIKA DEBIL W ^^;

[Gaav]

there is software that lets you pull as soon as anything spawns. this one guy was autoprovoking stuff like nearby bats while hunting for Argus in shak maze. 2 reasons why i know it was a prog. one is that they would just spawn purple. the second and more important reason is that he wouldn't fight it for like 10 mins (while he was afk i presume). even the other jp players were getting pissed. so i went to the room next door and brought in a bunch of gobbies and scorps. HE PROVOKED THEM ALL and did nothing to fight them. just sat there afk again. it was really funny, 10 mins after he died he was saying a ton of japanese stuff ^.^

[BALD TARU TARU]

they should have a new feature where if you cast magic on it with in 3 seconds of the nm pops, everyone that casts on it will lot for it to see who fights it.

[Sasurai]

they should have a new feature where if you cast magic on it with in 3 seconds of the nm pops, everyone that casts on it will lot for it to see who fights it.

No way, that's stupid. That totally destroys the challenge of NM hunting. If anything, SE should crack down on these hacks and programs that the JP people are using.

[BALD TARU TARU]

theirs no challenge to nm hunting, if camping for nm is fair they wont be any cheatings.

[angelbear894]

i hate to say this cuz i wanted to play with the jp players but maybe we do need our "own" servers or some sorta bridge to make our connection faster so that it's not cheating and they dont alwlays rule us.


and i also gotta say if you dont wanna play with others why play a mmorpg?? why does it make a diff if they are jap black white whatever?

[Aanya]

People generally want to play with others. But the issue here seems to be the obvious advantage the jp players have being closer to the servers. It may be a miniscule problem to some or a huge problem to some.

Either way offering jp only servers, na only servrs, and mixed servers would alleviate alot of the stresses. Its all about options, and it seems SE decided to make choosing a server one option we didn't have. They need to give it to the players, so we feel that we are choosing who we play with. The WP thing is kinda cool but sheeesh its so archaic! I'd rather choose from a list personally.

Doesn't matter the race or whatever of the people you're playing with but when it comes down to it. You're paying the monthly fee, you're a customer, you're entitled to satisfaction. You want to play with all english speaking people, it should be a choice. You want to play with all jp players, choose it! mix it up? same option.

The option isn't there, and what its causing is alot of hard feelings over piddly things.

[Kirara]

its called a turbo controler

[cs001x]

Yea and I guess a turbo controller bot fishes and auto attacks too after provoking right?

[Rekiem]

Originally posted by cs001x
Yea and I guess a turbo controller bot fishes and auto attacks too after provoking right?

/targetnpc
/ja Provoke <t>

and let your Turbo controller automaticaly use that macro constantly. When a monster pop, you will have claimed it.

[Foamingpanda]

Square's pathtic attempt at creating a fair gaming enconomy manifests itself in ridiculous 4 hour camps of low level monsters. It's a real shame that most of gear in this game, unlike MMORPGS similar to Everquest where **EXPABLE** mobs EQUAL to your level dropped useable gear, is obtained by farming highly contested mobs on random spawn schedules. Considering both of these factors, it's FFXI game design makes itself appear worse by providing Japanese players with a 3-5 second latency bonus. SqareEnix's tightass morals resulted in half-ass JA/NA servers located in Japan; the differnce in NA/JP latency, do to the location of the servers, inhibits any sort of fair spawn farming.

The whole situation of low level mob farming should not even exist. Level 15 monsters should NOT drop items worth 150-3000k. FFXI is a toddlers MMORPG, and revolves around camping low level monsters to fuel a flawed trade-skill driven economy. The tradeskill model economy creates a MASSIVE imbalance of wealth. Controllers suck. They're a sign of console fueled games that belittle ingame-socilization, the key factor of ANY mmorpg.

The concept of binding a cultural gap in a MMORPG with a halfass transelator foreshadows the real reason there are mixed servers: It's a hell of alot cheaper to just run servers in Japan. Square doesn't care if NA players suffer horrible disadvantages, because of latency and Japanese server development. American gamers gullibility to purcahse ANYTHING with a Final Fantasy label grants them enough authority to mess around. No one would still play this game if it didn't have giant Final Fantasy themes slapped all around it. The more I anaylyze FFXI, the more giant inexcusable flaws I find.

Another huge problem with FFXI is the structure of how intial aggro works. People can not arrange respectable camps, unlike Everquest where people generally respected the fact that YOU were camping a monster, and camping effort is RARELY awarded. Luck is the only factor that determines your sucess when farming. When playing against 14 year old console-dwelling losers who hopped aboard the MMORPG train at the call of the Final Fantasy gameline wistle; any seasoned MMORPG veteran will realize that the claim of a mob and camp should NOT lie in whoever has the best turbo contoller.


FFXI really is nothing more than a peice of fan-boy fueled Final Fantasy garbage. Thank god I don't play it anymore, and that REAL MMORPGS are in the progress of development.

[Aanya]

Square's pathtic attempt at creating a fair gaming enconomy manifests itself in ridiculous 4 hour camps of low level monsters. It's a real shame that most of gear in this game, unlike MMORPGS similar to Everquest where **EXPABLE** mobs EQUAL to your level dropped useable gear, is obtained by farming highly contested mobs on random spawn schedules. Considering both of these factors, it's FFXI game design makes itself appear worse by providing Japanese players with a 3-5 second latency bonus. SqareEnix's tightass morals resulted in half-ass JA/NA servers located in Japan; the differnce in NA/JP latency, do to the location of the servers, inhibits any sort of fair spawn farming.

The whole situation of low level mob farming should not even exist. Level 15 monsters should NOT drop items worth 150-3000k. FFXI is a toddlers MMORPG, and revolves around camping low level monsters to fuel a flawed trade-skill driven economy. The tradeskill model economy creates a MASSIVE imbalance of wealth. Controllers suck. They're a sign of console fueled games that belittle ingame-socilization, the key factor of ANY mmorpg.

The concept of binding a cultural gap in a MMORPG with a halfass transelator foreshadows the real reason there are mixed servers: It's a hell of alot cheaper to just run servers in Japan. Square doesn't care if NA players suffer horrible disadvantages, because of latency and Japanese server development. American gamers gullibility to purcahse ANYTHING with a Final Fantasy label grants them enough authority to mess around. No one would still play this game if it didn't have giant Final Fantasy themes slapped all around it. The more I anaylyze FFXI, the more giant inexcusable flaws I find.

Another huge problem with FFXI is the structure of how intial aggro works. People can not arrange respectable camps, unlike Everquest where people generally respected the fact that YOU were camping a monster, and camping effort is RARELY awarded. Luck is the only factor that determines your sucess when farming. When playing against 14 year old console-dwelling losers who hopped aboard the MMORPG train at the call of the Final Fantasy gameline wistle; any seasoned MMORPG veteran will realize that the claim of a mob and camp should NOT lie in whoever has the best turbo contoller.


FFXI really is nothing more than a peice of fan-boy fueled Final Fantasy garbage. Thank god I don't play it anymore, and that REAL MMORPGS are in the progress of development.

well said Foamingpanda.. )

[Veskar]

silly grumpy panda. you must be 13 with short fuse. dont publicly mock a board, just because youre frustrated with a game <dont care if this gets moded :) >

(dont like the 14 year old comment :cool: )

anyway, im fine with the current server layout. i havent had any problems with lag (DSL in Georgia ) vs players living in asia.

[Foamingpanda]

Or I'm the only person bold enough to tell the truth in the proverbial den of Final Fantasy fanboys =P. If you inspect what I said -- with the exception of my personal opinion about the game -- you'll see that it's quite true. I've played enough MMORPGS to correctly anaylyze things =P. As far as publically mocking a board, It's very obvious that not everyone is a mindless 14 year old FF fanboy; however, most of my 60 levels in FFXI were spent dealing with idiots who couldn't type a full sentance or logically discuss things =P.

[Veskar]

:confused: eq fanboy is you :confused:

if it were as horribly rechid, such a vile digusting pile of slop as you say, im sure alot of ppl here wouldnt be playing it, despite whether or not they like ff. only reason i started to like ff was because of this. I played EQ for two years, never had as much fun as ive had in ffxi :spin: :spin: :spin: :o

<insert 500 X 500 jpg photoshopped pic of troll in thong weilding D&D copied whatcha-ma-jigger>

[DJplaeskool]

Originally posted by Foamingpanda
Or I'm the only person bold enough to tell the truth in the proverbial den of Final Fantasy fanboys =P. If you inspect what I said -- with the exception of my personal opinion about the game -- you'll see that it's quite true. I've played enough MMORPGS to correctly anaylyze things =P. As far as publically mocking a board, It's very obvious that not everyone is a mindless 14 year old FF fanboy; however, most of my 60 levels in FFXI were spent dealing with idiots who couldn't type a full sentance or logically discuss things =P.

hehe...Panda is an army of one...

anyways...I, personally, have to agree with you on the economic imbalance...

I'm lv75 and I have half the money most lv30+ people have...
I've camped NMs (NM drop record (30+ min spawn) = 11/172)...
I've done BCNMs (231k yield OVERALL, includes 3 BCNM40s, 1 BCNM60, 2 BCNM30s)...
I've farmed whatever I could...
I have no luck at all...
And I'm still poor...

but regardless, it hasn't detracted me too much, I think the people I know (both NA and JP) still keep me coming back almost as much as the game itself....

as for the JP latency stuff...
I've learned to deal with it and sharpen my skills at rapid menu and macro transversal, rather than blame the game itself...
I've had a good amount of luck getting NMs...I just have REALLY BAD juju when it comes to them dropping...

[Foamingpanda]

I could discuss at length the strengths of Pre-Luclin EQ, and how it shaped the MMORPG genre; however, I'm also intelligent enough to notice EQ has numerous amounts of game play flaws (especially after Luclin). None of these flaws are as dramatic as FFXI game play flaws anyway. If you really want to know what MMORPG holds the high quality award, it would have to Anarchy Online after about 1 full year of tweaking. Incase you don't know, the definition of fan boy -- or at least the context I use it in -- indicates a person who enjoys something so much they don't realize why they like it or what parts they dislike. Anyway, I really hate addressing off-topic posters who try to turn posts into personal comments.

I'm confident enough to suggest that if FFXI possessed no Final Fantasy elements, and recived the name of let's say, "Humes, Galkas, Tarus, Elvaans, and Mancats," it would have a player base similar to smaller scale MMORPGS (Horizons, Anarchy Online, iRO). The Final Fantasy gaming label tends to attract people for the SOLE purpose it's a Final Fantasy game. FF is becoming a RPG tradition unfortunately, and Square is starting to take advantage of a primarily gullible fan base (examine the quality of recent Square titles: FFX-2, FFXI, KH) by producing low quality linear RPGS riddled with massive plot holes. I won't go into the issue in detail, to keep things on topic.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any responses to my post to be on topic. It's so annoying when I post on FFXI boards, and posters just randomly go off topic about various stuff =P. Thanks.

[Veskar]

unless you havent been on the boards much, you should know that many topics can branch off into (sub-topics:eek: ), depending on what posters have to say about a general subject. enough of that...

dont know about 65+ economy and how money is spent, but i have little trouble with my position; although it is weird how a lv20 common mage cloak is 3k+ more gil at the ah then the 60+ carapace breastplate. if i need a few thousand, i just lv a lower lv job up to 6 or 7, and depending on what I kill, i can get anywhere from 3k-9k worth of stuff, selling crystal stacks at the ah, or completing repeatable quests with some drops. no money problems for me yet with any character ive played.

[Dragosani]

Originally posted by Paiku
Seeing how some Japanese also feel the same way about exclusive servers and want some that only they can play in without US players, I guess it wouldn't hurt. All you JP and US bigots who don't like the mix would do well to have your own servers, as I certainly won't miss any of you.

NO AMELIKA DEBIL W ^^;

I don't think you get the point, all people want is a level playing field and most na players cant get that with japanese servers, and anyone na that says they can beat jp campers 100% on a static spawn with their "great macro" or "secret trick" was either extremely lucky or a straight up liar.I know the macro's and the tricks & I have 2mg cable and I still cannot beat the s.o.b perma camper for argus on my server.

I like & enjoy playing with jp players but no matter how you look at it items & equipment are a large part of this game and in alot of cases camping is the only way to get alot of the better items.
Having a na server doesnt mean "North American players only!"
it just means having 1-3 servers on located in on american soil, I'd definately be sad if one day SE got a clue & gave us the servers and no jp players came along to play.

[replica]

if you play on ragnarok, and lose deggi pull to a galka mnk named 'Qtarou', don't feel bad. He uses a turbo controller and is likely watching TV while his controller keeps trying to do chi blast~ once he pulls it, he usually stands still for a few mins (questionable? lol...), then I guess he wakes up and kills it

[BALD TARU TARU]

the thing that bothers me the most, i seen this guy pull before its not untill latly all his pull has no animation or sound, and i noticed alot of people started to do it too, most of time i see people pull their is always sound. but they just turn purple with out even a complete spawn.

[tracert]

haha... i went and watched some people pull today... they were getting hit before he showed up on my screen so i was like WTF... so i tried... i pulled him he hit me twice then he showed up on my screen... but i couldn't kill him so i let my friend have him...

[yzfr6]

ff11 is a pretty crappy online rpg when you think about it. that doesnt necessarily mean its not fun however. anyways i get pretty pissed off at how stupid this game is sometimes. ive thought about quitting...but then i realize id have nothing else to do so i continue to play. the thing with online rpgs is...even if they suck a lot of people still continue to play because they have been playing it for awhile and want to continue to level up their character. why else would ppl still be playing ragnarok or priston tale? rpgs that are incredibly small, boring, and basic yet ppl still have fun because making their character stronger is what draws them back. to continue their character development even though the entire game is pretyt much shit. anyways when the next big online rpg is released ill definently switch to that.

[Cali]

Foamingpanda.... may I ask you a question? why should you check this forum if you quit? why do you care if we play at all? O.o; it's our money, i can throw my money away, and thats none of your business, so just go back to your lovely godly EQ if you quit then that's it, you don't have to whine everyday to everyone... past is the past, remember that... the reason you keep checking FF forum after you quit, is it because you are waiting for it to changed to the way you liked? And when it doesn't seem to go toward what you want, ie EQ-like, you start whining to everyone about how the game sucked for you 2 centuries ago... get over it by now.. you already stopped paying for it, so why care if it sucks? if we 'suckers' decide to play, will your days end tomorrow or something?
No one care if EQ is the godfather of human races or whatever stupid, if games are all the same, I am not gonna spend my money on them.... games are supposed to be different from each other, just because EQ or UO is the 1st MMORPG, doesnt mean every MMORPG has to be like that, MMORPG doesn't stand for Everquest-wannabe to my knowledge O.o; FF already fulfilled the meaning of MMORPG, because it's online, and lots of players play together.... MassivelyMultiplayerOnlineRolePlayingGame... so, if it's different from the godly EQ, the reason is simply because it's spelt Final Fantasy XI, and the publisher is called Square Enix

Back to topic: Anyway, that happend to me once, and I doubt it was a hack like many have said, it's simply luck... I've been camping NM since I hit 40, and I out-provoked Japanese a lot of time..How do I know they are japanese? they have japanese comments .. I think it's called 'Lag', not 'Hack'.... and amazingly lots of the people that have no 'hack' out-claimed the NMs before the 'omfg hackers' japanese ^^;

[BALD TARU TARU]

well said yzfr6 btw NO WAY IN HELL YOU CAN PULL 3 TIMES WITH OUT ANY ANIMATION OR SOUNDS!!! LOOKS LIKE THE GUY DID NOTHING, HAS TO BE A PROGRAM BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DOING IT. EVEN IF IT IS RAPID FIRE CONTROL IT IS STILL CHEATING.

[tracert]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
HAS TO BE A PROGRAM BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DOING IT.

oh... so there is no way it could be a problem with you?

[Shiia]

Then quit camping that spawn. How hard is that. If you simply camp there just to whine in this board do something else. I pretty much gave up camping NM and I don't want frustration added while I am playing.

As for NA only server. I said this plenty of times and I will say again. EQ did not have any euro nor japanese server on their launch and not till 3years after.

[Tobold]

The basic problem is that camping NMs is highly profitable, and totally risk free. Of course people use whatever means, programmable controllers, macros, 3rd party programs, to get this free money. And instead of complaining how unbalanced this camping is, most of you are just complaining that somebody else is grabbing that free cash. Greed talking.

The solution is not US servers. Because even on a US server you would never get the NM, because somebody else was more "clever", and used illegal hardware or software to get the NM faster than you.

One solution that would work would be to make the NM spawn anywhere in the zone, and not only in one small area. Automated camping doesn't work if Leaping Lizzy could spawn anywhere from the lighthouse to the fumaroles.

[Still laughing about panda calling AO a high quality game. What a piece of crap. Instead of camping mobs, you camp the weapon store, because it can take several days before the one weapon you want with the right quality level randomly turns up there. Well, sure, the chicks in AO have big boobs, and you can make them wear bikinis and sexy underwear. I can see where pandas interest in that game comes from. :biggrin: ]

[BALD TARU TARU]

no cuz my friend dint even see it, nor the other jp guy. why should i not camp it? so your sayin the only way is ot get the item is by paying the people that cheat to get the item? very smart...

[Issaac]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
no cuz my friend dint even see it, nor the other jp guy. why should i not camp it? so your sayin the only way is ot get the item is by paying the people that cheat to get the item? very smart...


Sure its smart because its the only way you ever can get your hand on the item. But you can stay here, cry a bit more and louder. But that wont't get you the item also. So whats smarter? Go farm some gil to buy it or just complain about how rude some players are? Did you played Ultima Online? I bet you was one of those UOExtreme users. And i bet you would install this 3rd party program if you could with the excuse that everybody did it and you only do it because you want a fair chance.

[BALD TARU TARU]

i guess alot of your guys parents pay for the monthly fee of the game, or otherwise you wont be so pissed about pay 14dollars a month for getting screwed.... and if you did go "farm" how long would it take you to get 400k anyways? yea thats right

[Issaac]

I can tell you esactly how long it takes. Im connectiong form germany so i dont even try to get the high camped spawnes. I am farming now for 2 weeks and got 120k for spells, 44k for a holy breastplate and 174k in my pocket (still safing on holy shild). Thats 338k in two weeks. Just with silks, eggs, dhalmol hides, bird feathers, beeves chips, honey, iron ore, quadav backplates etc etc etc....and yes, one Braveheart which i got in my backplate farming time by exident. So to get 400k will take you about 2 and a half week.

[BALD TARU TARU]

i made 1.3 million from camping nm for 2 1/2 weeks.

[tracert]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
i made 1.3 million from camping nm for 2 1/2 weeks.

so stop bitching

[Issaac]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
i made 1.3 million from camping nm for 2 1/2 weeks.


Then why do you complain?

[BALD TARU TARU]

its cuz last night people started to do the no animation pulling, and things cost more then 1.3 million. and i have 0% in beating them in pulls as if a week ago i got 50% chance of the pull.

[Elsurion]

if he/she used 3rd tools, then complain this to a GM, but whining here isn't helping you much.

He/She will continue using this tools until he might get caught. But when noone tells this the GM or the Support then he/she hasn't to fear get ripped of.

But the idea about the Mob train is nice ^^

[BALD TARU TARU]

i did complain, gm said their is nothing we can do, mabey next time when he does it you can call us and we will watch, how many errors do i see in that statement....

[Miriamel]

Originally posted by Cali
Foamingpanda.... may I ask you a question? why should you check this forum if you quit? why do you care if we play at all? O.o; it's our money, i can throw my money away, and thats none of your business, so just go back to your lovely godly EQ if you quit then that's it, you don't have to whine everyday to everyone... past is the past, remember that... the reason you keep checking FF forum after you quit, is it because you are waiting for it to changed to the way you liked? And when it doesn't seem to go toward what you want, ie EQ-like, you start whining to everyone about how the game sucked for you 2 centuries ago... get over it by now.. you already stopped paying for it, so why care if it sucks? if we 'suckers' decide to play, will your days end tomorrow or something?
No one care if EQ is the godfather of human races or whatever stupid, if games are all the same, I am not gonna spend my money on them.... games are supposed to be different from each other, just because EQ or UO is the 1st MMORPG, doesnt mean every MMORPG has to be like that, MMORPG doesn't stand for Everquest-wannabe to my knowledge O.o; FF already fulfilled the meaning of MMORPG, because it's online, and lots of players play together.... MassivelyMultiplayerOnlineRolePlayingGame... so, if it's different from the godly EQ, the reason is simply because it's spelt Final Fantasy XI, and the publisher is called Square Enix

Back to topic: Anyway, that happend to me once, and I doubt it was a hack like many have said, it's simply luck... I've been camping NM since I hit 40, and I out-provoked Japanese a lot of time..How do I know they are japanese? they have japanese comments .. I think it's called 'Lag', not 'Hack'.... and amazingly lots of the people that have no 'hack' out-claimed the NMs before the 'omfg hackers' japanese ^^;

^^b
I fully agree.

Personally, I chose Issaac's path. Silks, beehives, honey, feathers, all that stuff is good money without having the feeling of having wasted countless hours on NMs.

[Elsurion]

@Bald: why didn't he set a scan bot (exists this anyway?) to this player?
I'm sure somewhere in the Serverdata must be a a log of the way how the catch was done.

Otherwise, train a mobtrain to him. I bet he can't handle all of them *harhar*

[Elsurion]

Also i'm doing some lodging for income. the elm log sells for about 2500 ~ 3000 on my server, and i can lodge about 6 ~ 8 in about one hour. And yes, i'm then alone in the OP ^^

Also Holly Log which i sell the 12lmbr for about 3k (invest 1.4k for crystals).

Mabe i'll try soon the Jugner Forest for some good log ^^

Also i camp the not so worthy NM to get a fast income of about 20k/hr. Normaly no jp/na player is there when i camp them ^^

[Issaac]

A scanbot shouldnt be a big problem. Maybe a 2k program watching the datastream or the memory and lookup the name of the monster and just trigger the "/targetnpc /ja provoke...." macro when it is realy needed.
Even with a monster train you have no chance to interupt him. Because he/she only provoke when the mob is around.
So you can watch TV, stay correctly and hope nothing is between you and the mob when it spawns. Depending on how good the bot is made you could maybe force the bot with just /say <monster name> so the scanner goes active.


But thats all guessing, i dunno if such a scanner/bot exists and im not going to write one.

[Omena]

Ok, I only read the two first pages because the topic didn't seem to go anywhere. People just complain about how the JPs have such a great latency advantage. That's all BS. The latency advantage is minimal, usually less than 0.5 seconds. Your own latency certainly doesn't go above 1000 in any combat situation unless your connection has problems. 1000 ping equals one second delay. So if the Japanese have 0 ping (which they don't) they get a whole one second advantage. A more common situation would probably be 250 ping for non-Japanese and 100 ping for Japanese. There the Japanese players have a whooping advantage of 0.15 seconds! OMG so unfair!!11 :rolleyes:

Really, if the Japanese are kicking your butt in NM camping, look for another reason than server latency.

[vudoodoodoo]

Originally posted by Rekiem


/targetnpc
/ja Provoke <t>

and let your Turbo controller automaticaly use that macro constantly. When a monster pop, you will have claimed it.

30 second cool down for Provoke. What if you provoke a regular mob and the NM spawns before you voke again. You're screw.

[Bigokk McGock]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
i made 1.3 million from camping nm for 2 1/2 weeks.

I make more FARMING CRYSTALS then just buy everything. Much more reliable and no possible way to get "hacked" out of money.

[Elsurion]

if you reffering to the R/S stats, then i have here in europe a normal R-ping of 50 ~ 250.

In the Spook Area, where an other player "stole" the Spook from me (me was too lazy ^^' --> need provoke) was the R about 150. And yes he/she was Japanese and yes he/she moved the caracter.

S is about 50 ~ 150

Only in Jeuno i've get about 2000 and other crowded places about 500 ~ 1500

But then i don't camp NM, because there have to be about 100s of ppls around.

[BALD TARU TARU]

.15 seconds is enough, all you need to be is frist 1 to get it off even if its .15 faster he still is the first one to get it .

[Raid]

lol dont like the game?

dont ????ing play it

[hatey]

I find that the main problem with this game is that the etiquette standard established by the japanese was really bad. To my knowledge the japanese culture is a very considerate and competative culture. Seems like the consideration has been left on the wayside with this game though. In games like EQ, people respected camps and everyone expected this, along with the GM's. When I first started playing this game I was very considerate, but after having many japanese players (early on in my experience with this game) stealing my mobs and doing other self serving things at the expense of me. I'm now the inconsiderate self serving pricks that they are. I'll steal all your mobs, I don't feel too good about this. But since everyone does it, seems like it's the only way to get ahead. I also make 100k+ a day and I don't camp NM's. I don't level however, I've been level 30 for a month. I have to spend all my time getting money to get everything I want. Oh yeah, hill giants in EQ, I guess people were pretty selfish with those... ;p

[Bigokk McGock]

Ancient Cyclops:dead:

[Emina Agnam]

Originally posted by Aanya
They really need to start NA only servers.


if they really start a NA only server, i 100% wont join.



u said this is cheat or using turbo gamepad...
i camped Archer's Ring last week, there r 2 jp ravils and i still got the monster 1st. i got the ring, sold it and got 190k gil^^ i havent use any cheat or any turbo gamepad, i only use an offical ps2 controller, spamming myself with that luring marco(/targetnpc; /ma stun <t>) so... when u lost to other players, admit that they play better then u, dont assume they r using cheat or something.

[Karinya]

Originally posted by Tobold
The basic problem is that camping NMs is highly profitable, and totally risk free. Of course people use whatever means, programmable controllers, macros, 3rd party programs, to get this free money. And instead of complaining how unbalanced this camping is, most of you are just complaining that somebody else is grabbing that free cash. Greed talking.

The solution is not US servers. Because even on a US server you would never get the NM, because somebody else was more "clever", and used illegal hardware or software to get the NM faster than you.

One solution that would work would be to make the NM spawn anywhere in the zone, and not only in one small area. Automated camping doesn't work if Leaping Lizzy could spawn anywhere from the lighthouse to the fumaroles.

This would still make the reward for grabbing it way too high.

Either the items themselves need to be brought more in line with the monsters that drop them (i.e. heavily nerfed), or drop rates need to be increased A LOT so that everyone can get one, or the items need to be EX so they can't be farmed for auction. Possibly several of these remedies at once.

[Still laughing about panda calling AO a high quality game. What a piece of crap. Instead of camping mobs, you camp the weapon store, because it can take several days before the one weapon you want with the right quality level randomly turns up there. Well, sure, the chicks in AO have big boobs, and you can make them wear bikinis and sexy underwear. I can see where pandas interest in that game comes from. :biggrin: ]
Camp the weapon store? Reminds me of people camping the clothcraft guild because cotton sells there for 1/5 the AH price - and in such tiny quantities that one person can easily buy it all and then resell at AH.

Items that frequently sell out at guilds need to either appear in greater quantities to meet the demand, or have their guild prices raised automatically the more they sell out (obviously the first option would be better for crafters, but both would shut down guild camping). It just doesn't make sense for the guilds to let themselves be ripped off this way.


I guess this turned into a generalized rant on economic problems in FFXI (most of the problems FFXI has right now are economic, IMO)... NM are just the worst.

[BALD TARU TARU]

emina read the damn post first, of course your not gonna get it everytime duh, but the thing is THE GUY WAS PULLING WITH OUT ANIMATION OR SOUND HE DOES NOTHING AND IT TURNS PURPLE FOR HIM. no one can beat him nor the other jps can beat him.

[Seiryu]

Solution :

A NM should spawn with a delay during which the NM is un-agroable. Targetting it and attacking it during that delay would put you in a list of potential attacker. Once the delay is over, a potential attacker is picked up randomly. The delay could be ajusted to compensate for latency.

Example :

Players Bob and Jack are in the vincinity of the NM.

The NM spawn at t = 0 for Bob, Bob attacks it automatically.

The NM spawn at t = 1 for Jack, Jack attacks it automatically.

The NM agro's at t = 5 either Jack or Bob.

Note:

This would obviously be a better cost efficient solution than the NA servers. Just think about what would involve making NA servers...Also, I think the camping issue is just a matter of time for the servers community to mature over it. In EQ there is "camping etiquette". In FFXI it is non-existent...give it some time.

[Trell]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
emina read the damn post first, of course your not gonna get it everytime duh, but the thing is THE GUY WAS PULLING WITH OUT ANIMATION OR SOUND HE DOES NOTHING AND IT TURNS PURPLE FOR HIM. no one can beat him nor the other jps can beat him.

I'm going to address your comment, but first of all, let me say that I don't believe making NA specific servers will help. If some Japanese players are using 3rd party apps to cheat, there's no reason why NA players wouldn't use them as well to gain an advantage over honest players on a NA centric server. Cheating knows no race.

Although the behaviour you described is suspicious, all you can do is speculate about wether or not this person cheated. GMs can't act on speculation. There are other ways that person could have pulled that mob before you saw it spawn (ex: switching to low-res). What we need to do is proove that this supposed 3rd party cheating application really exists, and before we do proove it, this will always be nothing more than speculation.

I've seen good suggestions on what Square could do to alleviate this problem. However, aside from making others conscious of the problem, airing out you frustrations on this board seems to do little to change these things. We need to find a way to let Squeenix know that we are very disatisfied with these flaws and let them know that we as paying customers want them fixed.

If Square were to:

- Balance the value and stats of NM drops depending on the lvl of the NM who drops it.

- Considerably widen the area in which a NM can spawn.

- (optional and arguable) Make it so you would need to be a in a group of at least 4 to pull and fight an NM.

I think this might take care of the problem. By balancing the stats of NM drops, you would no longer have lvl 50 PCs camping lvl 12 mobs, because it would simply not be worth it to them. These particular drops would be more suitable for a lvl 12-15 PC instead. That would probably help with overcrowded camps too.

On the other hand, that alone wouldn't stop cheaters from using 3rd party apps to auto-claim NMs. That's where the second proposition comes in. If the NM could spawn anywhere in a wide area, you couldn't possibly just stand in the same spot with an auto-provoke macro on turbo. You'd have to at least actively search for the NM.

As for the last proposition, that could be discussed further. The way I see it, cheaters usually act alone, because it isn't easy to find many people who will condone your behaviour. If you had to make a group of 4 to fight an NM, it would at least make it a group effort and it might hinder cheaters from cheating. I'm sure that the value and stats of the drops could be ajusted to make the venture worth while for a group to put the effort in. I'm not saying that it's impossible to find 3 other people willing to cheat with you, but it might at least weed out some of the loners who cheat.

I welcome any approval or disaproval of these ideas, but I think that if we find a solution, we should at least try to get it to the powers that be at Squeenix, although I'm not sure how.

JR.

[Emina Agnam]

Originally posted by BALD TARU TARU
emina read the damn post first, of course your not gonna get it everytime duh, but the thing is THE GUY WAS PULLING WITH OUT ANIMATION OR SOUND HE DOES NOTHING AND IT TURNS PURPLE FOR HIM. no one can beat him nor the other jps can beat him.


but... what i understand is... "omfg!! that xxxxing jp stole my NM(or whatever ur hunting)!!! he is using cheat!!!"

[Cali]

To say we don't care about our money, because our parents paid for it is childish, off-topic, and stupid. You stalking me all day to find out if my parents paid? You are making the same assumption as your 'ALL JP CHEATS'... to tell you what, I pay for my own game, and I got my NM 'stolen' more than you have ever got your NM 'stolen', but GUESS WHAT? I don't really care, yea I said 'DAMN' in LS, and that's it... It's A GAME...

I'm saving money to get myself the ochuido kote, is that STUPID? I don't think so, earning 400k by other means is better than sitting in Castle Oztroja for a week or so, gambling the risk of others out-provoking me, and even if I do get the NM, it's not a guaranteed drop. This is the same as saying 'I'm never gonna find work, I can get 1million from lottery, why should I work?'

And to say JP cheats? like Trell said, unless you have solid proof, it's all your personal whining. Would you believe that if JP has cheat, and NA doesnt? Yeah they played the game before many of us, but LOOK, open your eyes!! there are those IMPORTERS, did they use CHEAT to get NMs? NO? because they are from NA? Sure many of us that can't read Japanese would have trouble finding the cheat program if it DOES exist, but that doesn't mean other NA players can't read JAPANESE, I FOR ONE, can read japanese, but I have seen NO HACK mentioned in any JAPANESE SITE I went to....
if there is hack, I doubt that NA wouldnt hack, to my experience, every online game I played, NA hacked the most... BUT that doesn't mean japanese DOESN'T hack, the simple fact is that if there really is a 'hack', then I'm sure both NA and JP will use it(well, I for one won't, because I DON'T care if I have the OCHIUDO KOTE or not, it doesn't affect MY REAL LIFE)

It's called L-A-G not hack... and if you lost the claim, it's your own mistake, no one else...

[BALD TARU TARU]

i know for a fact that he is cheating, because i that guy has been camping their forever, and i seen the way he pulls before, and i can usually beat him, but all of a sudden he starts pulling with out animation or sound he dosent even move. how do you explain that? and btw if you go to a resturant and pay 14 dollars for a plate crap, your not gonna complalin? OH YEA IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT READ MY THREAD! NO ONE IS ASKING YOU TO READ OR RESPOND TO IT.

[evilution]

I cant belevie some people are so nieve as to think hacks like this dont exsist and are not used.

Where there is a will there is a way. And there is defiinately a will in MMORPG's where RL money can be made relatively easilly.

The fact that at this time its mainly JP players using these cheets just reflects the time the game has been avalaible to them. In 6 months it will be NA players using them as well unfortunately.

[Trell]

Originally posted by evilution
I cant belevie some people are so nieve as to think hacks like this dont exsist and are not used.

Where there is a will there is a way. And there is defiinately a will in MMORPG's where RL money can be made relatively easilly.

The fact that at this time its mainly JP players using these cheets just reflects the time the game has been avalaible to them. In 6 months it will be NA players using them as well unfortunately.

Agreed. Eventhough I said there's no way it could be proven that the puller in question was cheating, I'm not deluded as to think there aren't any of these apps out there. For example, we're well aware of the fact that there are fishing bots out there, without having necessarily proven it first hand. That's why I suggested ways to work against cheating, which can't be avoided.

JR.

[Cali]

No one said hacks don't exist... but.. have you got any proof? at all? you are saying there is hack because there should be... not there are hacks because there is... those 2 are totally different, although they sound simular.... if you have solid proof, I doubt Square would just say 'we are dealing with it'... the thing is, many of us out-claimed JP and NA campers, and no, none of us used hacks.... I have seen what you said, but it's called LAG, not hack, the monster already appeared, not loaded on my screen, that's all... yes, I lost my kote NM which I was hunting with my friend, because that player claimed it w/o moving, and my friend went 'WTF are you doing?' and I was like 'Don't ask me, the NM came out as claimed'...
and how do you know he is japanese? O.o; there are almost as much NA wearing AF or 75 gears on my server as there are in JP society....

[Burzum]

This is just a brief response to the flaw of low lvl NM's have such valuable drops. I agree that lvl 10 mobs should not drop items that cost 200k gil or more... Although I will give Square the *thumbs up* for not introducing such imbalancing gear as EQ did and then continued to do...*cough* *cough* -=Fungi=-, Primal Weapons, FT, lvl 1 characters questing Dwarf quest armor, etc... I have yet to see items or effects of this caliber enter the game. I also believe that the profiablity of most of these items will decline as the game grows. Although I do believe that Square is a bit lazy... just the fact that over half the jobs in FFXI are competeing for the same gear is horrible. Although if I have to compliment Square for something their tradeskill system is the best I've seen... this is the first game where almost every items in the game has value... although I do disagree with that fact that there is little alternative to crafted or store bought armors... Other than AF and RSE armors there are almost no farmable quest armor sets or expable drops that a person could upgrade with... for example in Velk Labs CC armor was still useful to ppl what would go there to exp. Where in FFXI by the time ppl could exp beastmen who drop armor they are long since passed the lvl these armors are useful. But then again I myself have to remind myself that FFXI is still only in Kunark EQ era equivilance content... for those who played EQ in those days when BRONZE ARMOR TWINKS SUCKED!!! ^^ ).. for the most part most ppl still lvled and wanted gear from the original release content.. I also have to remind myself that I'm not experencing the high lvl content of the game yet either :)... for as any experenced player knows the game is like black and white once you reach the top end of the game.. Which 90% of the NA population to maybe even 99% since I think most NA's are not killing HNM's either... even if they are lvl 75. So we are all using the gear that high end players don't want... but they all scramble for the scraps that are thrown out... Anyone who was in a higher end raiding guild in EQ will know what I'm talking about... when I say that this equipment can be refered to as "Guild Funds" gear. So I think alot of ppl will change their tune once they get a taste of the HNM spoils... Although Square needs to move pretty quickly I think to build up increase in high lvl content as competition is already fierce amont the estabilished HNM LS's w/out NA HNM LS's being formed yet... So this will only get worst.. Like in EQ were ppl are casting Illusion Ogre on ppl to block hallways so other guilds can't get in to try and KS others :)

Sorry for long post... guess fingers just couldn't stop once they got rolling :)

[Siven]

Here's a solution: make the chance of NM drops inversely proportional to how long ago you killed your last NM, ANY NM, not just the one you're trying to camp now. This NM count will be reset once every couple of days.

[Blaze_33]

"so i went to the room next door and brought in a bunch of gobbies and scorps. HE PROVOKED THEM ALL and did nothing to fight them. just sat there afk again. it was really funny, 10 mins after he died he was saying a ton of japanese stuff "

I find this not only funny but just. People should not get away with this behavior. Hurting the chances for other players to try for the NM.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[BALD TARU TARU]

if you are provking something, no animation no sound nothing, it just XXXX provked NM, it is cheating. and no its not lag, because 3 people in 3 different country dint see it. and it was "lag" then how come i can see the other jp guys provke when its the only time someone else got it that night? AND he only does it when NM pops, i know how to camp nms but this guy is just plain out cheating. you gotta be a moron to think its lag.

[Arguile]

I believe it's nearest location to server.

Point in fact, i have a cable connection and a 7000$ computer, i don't lag. But at camping NM's such as hoo mjuu, some of the japanese players have an obvious advantage.

Even tried spamming my /targetnpc /ma "Stun" <t> macro, and the moment it came into being it was next to me and it literally spawned purple. The japanese player further from me got it with Dia. Bare in mind, not a rdm with faster casting, but a thf subbing whm got it with dia as opposed to my Stun.

I'm not complaining much, i usualy get the NM i want eventually. But it always makes me cringe to see japanese players have an obvious, and rather important, advantage, when it comes to NM spawns.

But whatever, we all knew that going into this.

[Kimahriii]

There no way to beat a JP in small area with cable/dsl if they have right macros period. It does not matter what anyone says if they know what there doing you can't win 0.15 or whatever more time they have is more then enough to get it first. I also seen JP hackers like camping Valks Emperor i had good luck with this since its large spawn area so have about same chance as JP doing this for a few days a JP thief/rng (i had same combo) got all the emperor spawns the whole day everyone was saying she cheated I thought it was a joke. Until I lost everytime to her then I followed her and in following her she used flee and ran to a spot no emp i start to walk away and boom it spawned right there so she somehow ran to the right spot seconds before it spawned. I followed her again and same thing ran to spot no emp then boom it spawns purple of course but right at that spot.

[Issaac]

Originally posted by Seiryu
Solution :

A NM should spawn with a delay during which the NM is un-agroable. Targetting it and attacking it during that delay would put you in a list of potential attacker. Once the delay is over, a potential attacker is picked up randomly. The delay could be ajusted to compensate for latency.

Example :

Players Bob and Jack are in the vincinity of the NM.

The NM spawn at t = 0 for Bob, Bob attacks it automatically.

The NM spawn at t = 1 for Jack, Jack attacks it automatically.

The NM agro's at t = 5 either Jack or Bob.

Note:

This would obviously be a better cost efficient solution than the NA servers. Just think about what would involve making NA servers...Also, I think the camping issue is just a matter of time for the servers community to mature over it. In EQ there is "camping etiquette". In FFXI it is non-existent...give it some time.


I like your idea

[Gauvain]

For all those fools giving the "omg he stole your kill and youre frustrated argument", do you even hunt NMs?

You really don't seem to know wtf everyone is talking about.

I have no problem to losing fairly, but this is cheating, when you stand around for 10 hours jammin your macros to see a single monster spawn maybe 5 times, and someone is there the whole time pulling with spells that cover almost the WHOLE range of spawn points, and every NM that spawns is purple, you will change your tune pretty fast. THERE IS NO WAY FOR ME TO PULL FASTER, im on cable modem, am in monster range, mash my macros non-stop for an hour until the NM spawn, and it is ALREADY CLAIMED.

You'll be even more pissed when that player thinks its funny to kill EVERYTHING in the zone just to piss you off.

I was camping the NM for Monster Signa that I need for my BST, and I was just killing normal monsters waiting, when this bitch high level JP Red Mage comes and starts pulling everything right outta my face with the monsters spawning purple. She was using spells, not Provoke, she voked EVERYTHING, I didn't even have the time to move that monsters where spawning around me purple. A taru JP was fishing by the pond and she even pulled the monster that he fished out, after wich me and that taru started screaming at her in both languages 0.o

That Red mage then stood in a spot where her spells could target the whole zone where the NM spawn, and it was clear no one else had a chance while she was there. I then stayed there the whole night, to see my point indeed proven.

To all those who say "Then don't hunt NMs", I'm sorry, you're stupid, I pay for this game, yes I can farm good gil by other means, aka hunt about 3000 items, make countless trips to AH and try to fit all that weak shit in my mog house, but I'm suposed to be able to hunt for that one big item myself.

You say I'm greedy? I worked for this, I deserve at least a fair chance for the HUGE time put out to hunt these items. The greedy person is the cheater standing there with his bazaar with 3 fucking Monster Signa for sale 380k each. I only want this piece of shit to use it, this lvl 17 piece of shit item ffs. If yourself wanna waste 3 weeks to farm gil enough to supply the cheaters who got the item in a few hours by cheating, i applaud your generosity.

It's not entirely impossible to hunt NMs, but it takes just one idiot cheater to come by and ruin it for everybody. There is no reason for anybody to back this up and say it's ok, unless you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Issaac]

Originally posted by Gauvain
For all those fools giving the "omg he stole your kill and youre frustrated argument", do you even hunt NMs?

You really don't seem to know wtf everyone is talking about.

I have no problem to losing fairly, but this is cheating, when you stand around for 10 hours jammin your macros to see a single monster spawn maybe 5 times, and someone is there the whole time pulling with spells that cover almost the WHOLE range of spawn points, and every NM that spawns is purple, you will change your tune pretty fast. THERE IS NO WAY FOR ME TO PULL FASTER, im on cable modem, am in monster range, mash my macros non-stop for an hour until the NM spawn, and it is ALREADY CLAIMED.

You'll be even more pissed when that player thinks its funny to kill EVERYTHING in the zone just to piss you off.

I was camping the NM for Monster Signa that I need for my BST, and I was just killing normal monsters waiting, when this bitch high level JP Red Mage comes and starts pulling everything right outta my face with the monsters spawning purple. She was using spells, not Provoke, she voked EVERYTHING, I didn't even have the time to move that monsters where spawning around me purple. A taru JP was fishing by the pond and she even pulled the monster that he fished out, after wich me and that taru started screaming at her in both languages 0.o

That Red mage then stood in a spot where her spells could target the whole zone where the NM spawn, and it was clear no one else had a chance while she was there. I then stayed there the whole night, to see my point indeed proven.

To all those who say "Then don't hunt NMs", I'm sorry, you're stupid, I pay for this game, yes I can farm good gil by other means, aka hunt about 3000 items, make countless trips to AH and try to fit all that weak shit in my mog house, but I'm suposed to be able to hunt for that one big item myself.

You say I'm greedy? I worked for this, I deserve at least a fair chance for the HUGE time put out to hunt these items. The greedy person is the cheater standing there with his bazaar with 3 fucking Monster Signa for sale 380k each. I only want this piece of shit to use it, this lvl 17 piece of shit item ffs. If yourself wanna waste 3 weeks to farm gil enough to supply the cheaters who got the item in a few hours by cheating, i applaud your generosity.

It's not entirely impossible to hunt NMs, but it takes just one idiot cheater to come by and ruin it for everybody. There is no reason for anybody to back this up and say it's ok, unless you have no clue what you're talking about.



I totaly agree with you and its a valid point. Also BALD TARU TARU is right.


And now what?

[Trell]

Originally posted by Issaac
And now what?

Well, after reading Kimahriii's post, it would seem there are ways to track down a spawn before it actually happens and I doubt it's by legit means. If that thf/rng used his or her ranger tracking ability, it would imply that the monster had already spawned. For those who would use the lag argument, wouldn't it be safe to say that by the time the thf/rng cast flee and ran to the spot, the nm would have spawned for everyone else? Yet the Emperor still hadn't spawned yet when Kimahriii got there too.

If this is really what happened, it would seem that even widening the area for a NM spawn wouldn't circumvent cheaters... Now Seiryu's idea is starting to seem more attractive. You could adjust the odds of winning the dice roll so that people who have won it before would have a much lesser chance of wining it again within a certain amount of game days. That could level the playing field.

JR.

[OnionXI]

Yes it is true Japanese have a huge advantage in NM hunting. On Gilgamesh at least no NA players can get near the monster signa which is really important to play BRD. It's sold for 15k last year and shot up to 350k at the end of last year when NA players joined so it's really annoying :sweat: still, I've killed the NM that drops signa twice by pulling with Flash but the JP were fighting or not looking at my spot ;)

[Arto]

Ive kill Hoo Mjuu plenty a time, pulling with dia too. I just got it for my 18th kill with no signa and beat a JP too it :D

[BrotherRaven]

Guys (and Girls),

The problem with the NMs is that plain and simple there is a physically limiting latecy that we must deal with.

Lets say Player NA have a "good ping" of 150 to the server. Lets say that Player JP has a "great ping" of 50 to the server. Lets looks at a timelime of what happens.

Lets assume they both have equal reaction time (who am I joking, they are both spamming their macro). Spamming the macro is done client side vs whatever entities the clients see.

Here are the steps (with timing) for the NA player:

Server sends the information "NM has spawned @ <pos>".
150 ms
Player NA sees the monster spawn; his client does macro, selects the monster, sends the information "Provoke NM @ <pos>"
150 ms
Server checks to see that the NM isn't already claimed and if the player can actually see the monster (no objects). Sends back a success or failure
150 ms.

So you are talking about 450ms+

Lets take the JP player
For him it would 50 + 50 + 50: 150ms.

NOW, NA and JP are waiting for the monster to spawn; they are slamming their macro as hard as possible. You guessed it, by the time the NA player has recieved the message "NM spawned @ <pos>", it has already appeared and been claimed by the JP. And in reality, I gave the NA player a great ping.

It is the sad truth of the matter. There is no cheating. S-E has no plans for NA servers; we will continue to suffer from this.

Now of course this is an over-simplified model of their network engine. For those with a high Programming trade skill, it will be interesting if S-E ever decides to try and fix this sitation; there are ways to equally reward the High Latency and Low Latency players.

Now I know some of you may doubt what I have said above, especially if you haven't had experience writing network applications (i've done my fair share). But to visualize the latency issue; the next time you are at a LAN party or playing FFXI next to a friend, do this simple test:

Have your friend look at you in game as you stand still.
Now, hit your rotate key. There will be a significant pause between when you hit your key and your friend's computer actually shows you rotating. This usually varies from 0.5 to 1 full second! even on Cable Modems on the west coast :(

Take care everybody. ^^

[Trell]

If you read Kihmarii's post, you will see that chances are latency is not the culprit. In that case, we're talking about alot more than 450ms.

P.S. I'm in no way saying that latency isn't an issue as well. We've been trying to find solution to that too.

[Kai]

For all you people that say latency isn't an issue you are sadly mistaken. For example, I was camping the NM that drops Save The Queen in Quicksands (Level 65 PLD only Sword) there was a JP BRD and PLD there. Now all of the sudden the PLD began to run accross the room and I'm like wtf I don't see anything, and then he voked (still didn't see anything) and the NM showed up pink about a second after. So everyone saying latency isn't an issue is either retarded or not playing FFXI.

[Machiko]

Of course lantecy is an issue. There are too many computer "newbies" who always say "JAPANESE ARE CHEATING" because they're more expierenced then us..well at least the ones who've been staying up for the past 2 years playing FFXI. I guess too much racism =P

[BALD TARU TARU]

i know what legit pull is, but if you accualy read my post, when your pulling with out animation is pretty much cheating.

[Yinstrong]

um i think what you experienced following the ranger i the fact that monsters spawn slower further away from your pos, and can be spawned but not seen by you, the ranger tracks the monster and will see it before you see it if you are behind them, there are times when i have seen players fightinfg invisible monsters out of my range of gaming site, i think this is why the ranger seemed to spawn the monster purple, also monsters tend to have pretty exact spawn times, like mee deggi placeholders spawn once every 12.5 min or so, so if your killind placeholders you can know when to start spaming macros, also monsters exist before they appear on your screen, theif subs no thi sbecause the dots, appear before teh monster, this is also why knowing spawn time is key. the target npc method also requires that you kill everything in area because it will target the closest npc, hence for rdm to be able to pull said monster they must pull everything in range, disadvantage to this is cool down time.
so you want to make target npc not as reliable eh?
claim a monster and dont kill it till close after other dude kills his then cool down time for his spell and target npc strat will be screwy.

[hatey]

You make programming sound like a craft in the game, makes me feel better about being a programmer. Anyways, they could easily have a base delay time and just add delay to people who have a connection which is faster than this base delay, based on their ping. The people with a connection slower than the base delay time would suffer because they have a bad connection, but that can't be helped.

[nephi]

I have just recently started camping the Torrent to try and get a Monster Signa for my BRD, no luck so far, not even a successful pull.

This is not only due to latency, but there ARE cheats in this game, and that is a fact. I know this from posts i have read on forums to personal experience. I was camping, and about 6 other people were there. Non NM monsters were spawning and a variety of people were successful in nabbing them, so it seemed like an even contest. But this guy was only voking certain yagudo's that spawned, ONLY YAGUDOS WITH THE SAME MODEL AS THE NM TORRENT. He would voke stupidly quick, i mean, i was sometimes winning with casting dia on other monsters, but didnt have a chance wen it came to these types of yagudos. This was no latency issue, because once the NM did spawn he voked immediatly as he had been before, and the NM jus started pummeling him, and he was standin ther for a good 30 seconds doing absolutely nothing. He then voked again, and i was like wtf is he doin, he even voked for a 3rd time on the NM he had already claimed! I stood there while my chance of a monster signa dissapeared, the guy obviously then came back to his pc to finish the NM off.

The only chance i have of gettin this staff is to HOPE no JPN players are there (using bots), it is so unfair that they can walk into an NM spawning area, switch on ther bot or wateva, and go watch TV or something knowing they are goin to make a good 300k that night no problem.

[BALD TARU TARU]

USELESS GM I CANT BELIVE IM PAY 14 A MONTH FOR THIS POS GAME.

[Arguile]

1)Bald taru, if this game is upseting you so much, and you're paying to get upset, stop paying and go do something else. You seem to delight in bitching about anything on every board.

2)Try camping NM's during the day, 13 hour difference means less japanese players will be on at 2-3pm since that's 3-4am for them.

3)Camping NM's will, and is, extremely frustrating at times. If you can, bring 2-3 people to camp. If you're alone it's much harder.

4)I fully believe some japanese players are using 3rd party software to cheat on various area's of the game. They've had the game for 2+ years now, plenty of time for hackers to find ways to cheat.

So, with that being said, how does NM spawn really work? I don't mean how you make it spawn, i mean what does the server do to make an NM spawn at a given location.

Once an NM is killed, the server selects a respawn point for him. Sort of "mapping" it out. And when the conditions are met, he simply spawns. Now i am sure there are ways to find out where the NM will spawn with 3rd party software.

We all connect to the server to play. Meaning all the information and details of the game are stored on that server. You'd simply have to have a program that filters out all the raw game data and centers in on the data you want.

I mean, take away the visual aspect of the game and it's all codding. NM's have there own code, and i'm sure hackers have found ways, subtle ways that Square wouldn't find too easily, to lock onto the code of an NM, or anything they want, and know where it's going to appear.

In all honesty, if i knew how to do it i would make a program and most certainly use it to get what i want. So those who are, power to you. You're obviously gaining benifits by using skills we're not.

And did you ever think that maybe squaresoft is aware that some japanese players are cheating, but simply don't care since they are japanese. Now, if tomorrow a lot of NA players were cheating i'm sure square would crack down instantly.

It's simple "We know, but as long as it's our own doing it and not anyone else, it's ok". Believe it or don't, it doesn't matter.

And if i was to tell you i've met japanese people who showed me what they were doing to hack the game, and it wasn't just 1 or 2 people, it's quite a lot. Power to them i say.

So stop complaining, square is aware of hacks and cheats, but as long as it's the japanese using it and not the NA players they don't care.

4)Learn to hack and start cheating. Getting NM's problem solved.

[Anaki]

it is simple they set there resolution SUPER LOW so the game is much faster and massive ugly so it appears faster...

[JamesX]

Originally posted by Kai
For all you people that say latency isn't an issue you are sadly mistaken. For example, I was camping the NM that drops Save The Queen in Quicksands (Level 65 PLD only Sword) there was a JP BRD and PLD there. Now all of the sudden the PLD began to run accross the room and I'm like wtf I don't see anything, and then he voked (still didn't see anything) and the NM showed up pink about a second after. So everyone saying latency isn't an issue is either retarded or not playing FFXI.

I think what you experiencing isn't latency. The computer draws everything at a rate your machine can handle.

Some are faster and others arn't. Regardless though you can target the monster long before it appears on the screen. Just as you can target a PC when they arn't drawned (like in jeuno following a party member)

They however always show up on radar.

So if the Paladin ad thief subed he will see the enemy appear on his radar before it even shows up.

[Quinton]

It seems to me that the biggest problem is that people actually PAY 200-400K for these NM drop items.

Sure, I'd like some of these things.

Sure, camping for them is pure misery (maybe I'm unlucky, maybe I'm lousy at it, maybe the other players are cheaters -- the end result is it's not fun).

But I certainly am not going to put gil into the hands of these guys and support them at this.

Oddly, the people fighting with the hardcore campers are unhappy and the people struggling to buy from the hardcore campers are unhappy, but I seem to be having enough fun without super-rare-drop-junk.

Quinton

[Dark Aphalite]

This problem is driving me insane too.

Just last night I was camping for Lizzy.
There were about 4 other people also hunting it but this was normal.
Anyway I stand in my corner waiting for Lizzy when I started realizing that this JP guy could pull monsters with a boomerang FASTER than I could with Provoke...
I was like WTF? This is fake... there should be so much more delay for him and his weapon yet he gets the monsters even before they spawn for me.
I PM'd him asking if he was using a macro but obviously no reply.
I stayed there for 2 hours wathcing this freak take on all the spawns before I could even see them appear.
I PM'd this other hunter which I had Party'd with before so we knew each other a bit and warned her about this bot JP camper.
She was also angered by this but decided to stay as I made my way back to Bastok.
She then PM'd me about 20 minutes after I left telling me she got Lizzy and the boots.
I was really happy for her and started PMing the JP laughing in his face.

Serves him right.

[Dastroughton]

This problem is driving me insane too.

Just last night I was camping for Lizzy.
There were about 4 other people also hunting it but this was normal.
Anyway I stand in my corner waiting for Lizzy when I started realizing that this JP guy could pull monsters with a boomerang FASTER than I could with Provoke...
I was like WTF? This is fake... there should be so much more delay for him and his weapon yet he gets the monsters even before they spawn for me.
I PM'd him asking if he was using a macro but obviously no reply.
I stayed there for 2 hours wathcing this freak take on all the spawns before I could even see them appear.
I PM'd this other hunter which I had Party'd with before so we knew each other a bit and warned her about this bot JP camper.
She was also angered by this but decided to stay as I made my way back to Bastok.
She then PM'd me about 20 minutes after I left telling me she got Lizzy and the boots.
I was really happy for her and started PMing the JP laughing in his face.

Serves him right.

ummm, how did you know he was a bot? Maybe hes japanese and cant understand you...or maybe he just didnt want to talk to you.

Boomerangs dont have a huge delay...they can pull decently quick. (3 seconds maybe?) In the time it takes for you to run in range with provoke, its possible that he could whip out the boomerang in time. Just because he can get something before you doesnt mean he's cheating. Did you even try comparing bommerang to provoke? I myself use a boomerang to pull far away Hill Lizards...i like to stay close to my spot at all times. Granted, i wouldnt use a boomerang to pull LL, id probably use provoke...but what you described him doing doesnt seem abnormal at all.

And dont laugh and ridicule people when they dont get a spawn...its rude. You cant tell for sure what anyone is doing, so just leave them alone.

[Machiko]

Originally posted by Dark Aphalite
This problem is driving me insane too.

Just last night I was camping for Lizzy.
There were about 4 other people also hunting it but this was normal.
Anyway I stand in my corner waiting for Lizzy when I started realizing that this JP guy could pull monsters with a boomerang FASTER than I could with Provoke...
I was like WTF? This is fake... there should be so much more delay for him and his weapon yet he gets the monsters even before they spawn for me.
I PM'd him asking if he was using a macro but obviously no reply.
I stayed there for 2 hours wathcing this freak take on all the spawns before I could even see them appear.
I PM'd this other hunter which I had Party'd with before so we knew each other a bit and warned her about this bot JP camper.
She was also angered by this but decided to stay as I made my way back to Bastok.
She then PM'd me about 20 minutes after I left telling me she got Lizzy and the boots.
I was really happy for her and started PMing the JP laughing in his face.

Serves him right.

Laughing at the Japanese player for no reason just makes NA players look bad. You must be aware of the party troubles at higher levels and your CONTRIBUTING to the problem. Oh and by the way, do you know how hard a bot would be to program in a game like Final Fantasy XI? Ragnarok, Diablo II, Hellbreath...what do those games have in problem and make boting so easy? They are 2D and require a simple click to attack. Final Fantasy, you have to target, and click attack. How would a bot know that you are attacking a monster, instead of a player (Then you would be auto hitting the "Chat" button instead of attack). The next time you are going to do something that contributes to the amount of stupid and moronic NA players reputation, please use your brain and think about it.

[BALD TARU TARU]

/targetnpc
/fallow
/attack
not to hard to bot that.

[Starv]

Please just be aware that mobs pop on your radar before you can actually see them~

[Kai]

Originally posted by JamesX


I think what you experiencing isn't latency. The computer draws everything at a rate your machine can handle.

Some are faster and others arn't. Regardless though you can target the monster long before it appears on the screen. Just as you can target a PC when they arn't drawned (like in jeuno following a party member)

They however always show up on radar.

So if the Paladin ad thief subed he will see the enemy appear on his radar before it even shows up.

...
I have a p4 2.8 ghz, radeon 9800 pro, and a gig of ram so its definitely not my computer. And what does subbing thf have to do with anything -_-.

[Gauvain]

ok why is there still people who don't understand anything about this issue.

This is not ALL JP that does this.

But so far I have NOT seen NA being able to do this.

About 100% of the people complaining about this (including me) are on cable modem with a great pc.

We are not stupid. We know what we see. If you didn't come across this, then why argue?

Some JP pull before the monster spawns. The monster spawns purple. Other JP get pissed too. This can only be because some player cheats.

The closest thing to an explanation i've read is that the software would only work on JP client, this cannot be caused by latency difference between JP and NA, because this not ALL JP who does this, in fact it's only a few. If it was only latency, you would see this much more often. Once again this is NOT about someone voking a bit faster then you, the monster spawns purple, plain and simple.

I've never seen this happen in any hunt with JP or not, my guess is people use this for NM only.

[Kailea]

uuuummmmm Gauvain, I can do it, it is easy, you can select pc's or npc's before the model it self loads, I do it all the time, and yes laughing at that player like that was very rude and uncalled for. Next time think before you do things like that to incriminate other NA players...............

[Rico]

Why blame "them"? it's your problem you didn't get it maybe you should be more aware or maybe call GM and tell them your situation.

No reason to be open topic closed.