A dragoon's wishlist...

[Elusivellama]

Yes, kind of a repost and maybe preaching to the choir, but I felt that I had to rant a little, blow off some steam.

I was out hunting stuff in Buburimu a few days ago. I'm level 46 DRG/WAR, have +10 dex total. So I go to attack a goblin...and miss! It says 'missed goblin', not 'goblin's shadow absorbed the damage'.

A flat out miss on a too weak to be worthwhile mob.

WTF.

Then I go 'ok, mr. gob, your ass is mine!'. So I bust out my jump on him...and miss.

OMG.

Meanwhile, my wyvern is hitting it for over 100, no problems.

So I hit my High Jump and was temporarily rewarded with some damage figures. 100+ Then I hit him again...for 140. WHAT? My jump attack, landing from above with my lance jabbing into his brain, driven by strength and momentum, did LESS damage than a measly swipe to the head?

Then, a few days later, I went to help some people do the rank 3 dragon. I thought to myself 'okay, now i'll get to use Ancient Circle and see how my dragon killer job trait works'.

Absolutely pathetic....Ancient Circle wore off so quick it was useless. My so called 'Dragon Killer' trait was not even noticeable whatsoever. Oh yes, one of my jumps misssed too. Am I a specialist in the art of killing dragons or not?? Like it matters, considering how many dragons you get to fight in the game!


Wishlist:
-----------

Better Jumps:
Although I only have Jump and High Jump at the moment and have not tried Super Jump, why do DRGs only get 3 jumps? We're 'masters of the air and the lance', so what gives? I blast out my two jumps (assuming they even HIT)...and for the next 90 seconds I pretend to be a warrior all over again.

We need:
- Better jump accuracy. Like 100% accuracy. This is our defining ability as a job, the thing that sets us apart from the others.

- Better jump damage. The damage that a jump attack does is not that much more than a regular attack, if you're lucky! The jump is described as being an attack which lets the DRG pierce the toughest hides...so why is it not doing more damage? I'm not saying that it should be like a THF's sneak/trick attack, since THF is a burst damage dealer, but at least make it do noticeably more damage.

- Lower jump timers.

- More jump options

In return, put some restrictions on the Jumps, make them more unique and more useful. Some suggestions from ppl on the forums include:

- Jumps take some time to land after being used. This is to simulate the dragoon jumping and landing on the monster (rather than the instant attack it seems to be now).

- Jump attacks gain hate, not shed them. You're doing damage to the monster...how can it not hate you? Jump should gain the same hate as a Sneak Attack...and High Jump should gain the hate of a Trick Attack. If you do too many jump attacks at the wrong time, you may die from aggro.

examples:
Jump: 2 seconds of airtime, 100% hit rate, 2x damage, gains 15% tp, gains some hate (critical-hit hate). Good chance to interrupt spell casting or special abilities (useful to stop gob bombs, etc). AOE attacks still do damage to the DRG, but attacks directed *at* the DRG do not register (ie. Pugil Screwdriver). Cannot be healed while in the air. Also, upon landing, you're more vulnerable to an attack for a split second or so...so a badly timed Jump can result in extra pain for you, if you're not careful. 50 second timer.

High Jump: 4 seconds of airtime, 100% hit rate, 2.5x damage, gains 18% tp, sneak attack hate. Higher chance to interrupt spell casting or special abilities. AOE attacks still do damage to the DRG, but attacks directed *at* the DRG do not register (ie. Pugil Screwdriver). Cannot be healed while in the air. Also, upon landing, you're more vulnerable to an attack for a split second or so...so a badly timed Jump can result in extra pain for you, if you're not careful. 80 second timer.

Evasion Jump: 3 seconds of invincible airtime. No damage, sheds some hate, drains 30% tp. Cannot be healed while in the air, and for a split second after landing, the DRG is more vulnerable. 90 second timer.

High Evasion Jump: 5 seconds of invincible airtime. No damage, sheds more hate, loses 50% tp. Cannot be healed while in the air, and for a split second after landing, the DRG is more vulnerable. 2 min timer.

Super High Jump: 8 seconds of invincible airtime. Option of coming down to do damage, or simply evading (evading is default). If the former, you will do 3.5x damage, 100% hit rate, gains 25% tp, higher chance to interrupt spell casting or special abilities, but gain trick attack hate. If the latter, you will shed all hate, but also lose all your tp. Cannot be healed while in the air, and for a split second after landing, the DRG is more vulnerable. 5 minute timer.



Improved job traits/abilities:

- Ancient Circle...increase its duration to 3 minutes, reduce timer to 5 mins, and make it effective against all flying monsters, dragons and reptiles in general.

- Dragon Killer...change it so that it gives bonus damage and hit-accuracy against flying monsters, dragons and reptiles. Rename it to something else...

- Another accuracy bonus at level 45 (maybe). Or at least, some other job trait to look forward to! We only have 3 total at the moment.

- Call Wyvern...move the current 2hr ability here. 1hr timer, and 2hr duration. Otherwise, no changes to the wyvern as it is now.

- Better 2hr ability...Chainjump. Wyvern as a 2hr ability *is* a gimmick. Half the time you're fighting mobs with AOE, and it's dead. It's useful for soloing, but let's face it...the game is about partying, not soloing.

30 seconds duration, or a max of 5 jumps...whichever comes first.

Just like it sounds, Chainjump would let the DRG chain the normal Jump attacks together. Hate building remains the same, TP building remains the same, the airtime remains the same. No other jumps can be used whatsoever, so if you do bust out this ability, you will be gaining some nice hate. After the 2hr is done, you cannot use any jumps at all for 2 minutes.

This opens up a variety of jump chaining options....like if you chain 5 Jumps one after another, you'll do alot of damage very quickly, but gain a lot of hate very quickly. If you moderate your Jumps...like one Jump every 5 seconds, you won't get as much hate, but you won't do alot of damage as quickly as the first option. If you wait too long between Jumps, the timer may run out. If you chain 5 Jumps one after another, then spam a pentathrust...you better hope that the mob is dead after, or you'll soon be eating dirt.



More comments and additions, or constructive criticism welcome. If something is glaringly wrong that I missed because I'm only level 46, just point it out.

I've never fought skeletons yet, so I do not have any first hand experience with lance vs bone-enemies, but if it really is as bad as all the high levels make it out to be, why not give DRG an A- rating in staff, as well as more staff options, and better staves? A staff is similar to a spear...both are considered polearms.

[Atla]

Those are some pretty nice ideas but I saw one thing too outdone and that was the chain jump.If I understand correctly how you said it was,then the ability would gain uber hate and probably just be a death ticket I mean 5 jumps gaining hate would be A UBER load of hate to yourself and with the dragoon's low ass defence what do you do?I think you should take the 2 minute timer to use your other jumps, off or just the attacking ones so you can fire off a high evasion jump after you do Chain jump and then you would have reasonable hate.

I like your other ideas like Ancient circle and dragon killer hurting flying monsters,dragons,and reptiles.This would help those abilitys actually come alive and square should DEFINETELY look into adding it at least to dragons and reptiles.

Really though the Dragoon is a half baked job unless it is yet to have its true advantages shown yet. Like if suare adds more dragons or smaller dragons to train on in a future update or expansion pack it would show the power and worthwhole of the job.

[Elusivellama]

Yes, but I was thinking that if you could save your Evasion Jump and High Evasion Jump for after the Chainjump, you could do a ton of damage, and pretty much get away with it while leaving your party members stuck with a really pissed and charged up monster. I mean, if you look at other melees' 2hr abilities, most of them do a ton of damage in as short a period as possible, but leaving no get out of jail card.

Examples include Meikyo Shisui, which is weapon skill spam. Then Hundred Fists, Eagle Eye shot, Mighty Strikes, Blood Weapon (kinda, it heals DRK too...does that gain more hate?), Mijin Hagakure.

Only exceptions are THF and DRG, and THF gets Perfect Dodge, which can be very useful if timed right. DRG, at the moment, just gets a wyvern which is dead/unsummoned 90% of the time.

Heck, if you look at every other Job's 2hr ability, the general trend is that they're held in reserve, used when the shit hits the fan (I know next to nothing about the BST 2hr ability, so someone plz clarify). Whm gets Benediction, PLD gets Invincibility, BLM gets Manafont, RDM gets Chainspell, blah blah blah.

All except DRG, with a gimmicky 2hr wyvern. So the reasoning behind Chainjump is that we need something useful to bust out when the situation goes south, yet there should be a restriction on it.

Manafont, for example, gives unlimited magic but the hate you get from spamming an attack spell could mean your quick death. Benediction is a hate magnet. Invincibility is even worse as a hate magnet. Chainspell is restricted by the available mana. Blood Weapon and Mighty Strikes are restricted by accuracy issues. Mijin Hagakure results in death for the ninja, perhaps death for the whole team if the mob didnt die. Meikyo Shisui is basically Chainweaponskill...tons of damage, lots of hate. The list goes on...

[SamuiFuyu]

Those are some great ideas. And they all should be in the game. But SE wont change the job unless someone puts a gun to their head.

I have been a big Dragoon/Dragon Knight/Lancer fan ever since Kain in FF2/4(My first FF).
But this version of DRG gets robed on pretty much everything other then attack, which is useless when you can't hit anything.

[Kafeen]

So I hit my High Jump and was temporarily rewarded with some damage figures. 100+ Then I hit him again...for 140. WHAT? My jump attack, landing from above with my lance jabbing into his brain, driven by strength and momentum, did LESS damage than a measly swipe to the head?
There's something serously wrong with Jump attacks. I was in Crawler's Nest for a bit of levelling. Time for my jump attacks. Can't remember the exact values but it was something like:
High Jump....40 damage
Jump....80 damage
for some reason the improved version of the skill did half the damage of the upgraded version. Surely that can't be right. :confused:

[Hattori Hanzo]

Jump: An Additional Attack
High Jump: Sheds hate, does less damage than jump
Super Jump: No damage; sheds all hate

[Tidane]

I just have a general question...do DRGs get TP from Jump? If they do, I don't think they should. I mean, I don't get any TP from Weapon Bash, so why should they get TP from Jump?

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

[Hibiki]

I don't know the details on weapon bash, but from what i see it's just a stun. Jump is an additional physical attack. IMO Jump abilities are fine the way they are. Once you get to 50+ you'll see.

[Dredge]

Originally posted by Tidane
I just have a general question...do DRGs get TP from Jump? If they do, I don't think they should. I mean, I don't get any TP from Weapon Bash, so why should they get TP from Jump?

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

dragoons are over-powered

[Dredge]

The only real problem that DRGs have is that there aren't a lot of higher level mobs that polearm is good against, but this shoulpd be fixed with the next update.

All the other stuff is just whiney "why isn't my class the best class ever? /sigh /cry" type rhetoric.

DRG is definitely not under-powered, especially pre-60. In fact, from 49-59, they are pretty over-powered if you ask me. And don't try and tell me Pentathrust isn't a good WS when you're doing a 400 damage penta and i'm doing a 40 damage vorpal.

[Elusivellama]

I don't understand how you fail to see the point behind my post? My point is not that we SUCK at doing damage with our weapon skills or with normal swipes, and need a power boost. My point is our abilities are half-assed, and could stand to be updated or totally revamped.

Jump attacks? Look at the way they're now...you hit the macro, and an instant attack is busted out, with a 30 - 40% chance of missing, even on something like a GODDAMNED Forest Hare (yes, I've missed on my jumps on a Forest Hare in Sandoria). Even if you connect, all it does is regular damage, possibly a little bit more. No stun effect that you'd expect from landing on the monster's head with a spear, no armor break...nothing beyond damage. High jump just sheds some hate, but does nothing else other than damage. Did I mention that they miss so much that they seem very gimmicky? It's just an extra attack, something you'd expect like Double Attack, but with a timer.

Job traits? 3 job traits, woohoo, and one of them is worthless (Dragon Killer). The other two are of questionable value, especially that Accuracy Trait.

Job abilities? Wow, I get to use Ancient Circle. Now I get 1 minute's worth of useless protection against dragon-type enemies, who last much longer than 1 minute of fighting.

2hr ability? When the shit hits the fan, I can call my wyvern to do piddly damage and die to the next few AOE attacks. Meanwhile, the BLM is dumping attack spell after attack spell with manafont, the RDM is chainspelling, the MNK is going nuts with Hundred Fists, etc etc Even the DRK is hitting with Blood Weapon and gaining HP back - doing SOMETHING at least, in any emergencies requiring the use of 2hrs.

See my gripe? I'm sure you DRKs have a wishlist of your own, which would sound almost exactly like mine, and I dare you to call that DRK wishlist whiney "why isn't my class the best class ever? /sigh /cry" type rhetoric.

[Tidane]

Originally posted by Hibiki
I don't know the details on weapon bash, but from what i see it's just a stun. Jump is an additional physical attack. IMO Jump abilities are fine the way they are. Once you get to 50+ you'll see.

Weapon Bash usually does about 10 damage for me.

[sonova]

all 3 expansion jobs are rather half assed

DRGs mostly suffer from the equipment side of their implemetation

jumps / WSes etc are fine atm, imo. being able to get +24 TP and drop aggro at the same time rox. and that jumps have a maximum of 2x normal damage. It just suffers from a high variance

the wyvern is the only 2hour that lasts beyond 30 seconds of its activation. if you want to see a gimpy 2hour you should check out the RDM 2 hour or the ninja 2 hour


also you must remember that +10dex is only approx +5 acc which actually means very little in the long run. plus theres always a chance of missing since the hit miss thingamabob(as well as damage) is determined by an algorithm rather than just a baseline comparison.

[Tidane]

Still...its sad that you'd miss on too weaks. I probably only have +2 ACC and +3 or so DEX (THF sub, by the way), but I don't know if I've ever missed on a too weak, I tend to only fight mobs of them, and often go to the bathroom while they all try to kill me.

[Dark Aphalite]

The Wyvern is the biggest dissapointment.
It has worse Defense that a WHM lvl 1 with no armor on.
And I agree so much when you said 2hrs are there for emergencies when things go very wrong.
If I am fighting a mob and have really low health but I am a THF at least I have the reassurance of Perfect Dodge.
Whm is the same with Benediction.
Warriors can unleash hard damage to quickly dispose of enemies etc.
What do Dragoons rely on when they are about to die? WYVERN! Wohoo, yes.. and few extra damage for 10 seconds before it dies and I have to wait another 2 hours for it. Awesome!

They should make Jump 100% accuracy, make Wyverns a JA with a 30 minute refresh time, make a 2hour where there are no cooldown times for Jump so you can keep smashing the macro button and hitting... but only make it last 15 seconds if Jump has 100% accuracy.

[Zihn]

This is just an idea to make DRG a better allround job in the game and fix some balance isues

This will make DRG a bit weaker under lvl 35 but stronger at lvl 65+
<<<Dragoon>>>

Job Abilities:

Rapid Jump
Delay: 2:00:00
Duration: 0:00:30
removes reuse timers from jumps for 30 seconds

Jump Lv.10
Delay: 0:01:00
Duration: Instant
Airborn time: 2 sec
Jumping Attack that does 2x DMG when Lance type weapon is equeped

High Jump Lv.30
Delay: 0:02:00
Duration: Instant
Airborn time: 4 sec
Jumping Attack that does 2x DMG when Lance type weapon is equeped

Super High Jump Lv.50
Delay: 0:04:00
Duration: Instant
Airborn time: 4 sec
Jumping Attack that does 2x DMG when Lance type weapon is equeped, Dragoon have 20% chance to Jump back up in the air after he lands and makes a extra Super High Jump that again have 20% chance to make an extra Super High Jump

Ancient Circle Lv.25
Delay: 0:05:00
Duration: 0:03:00
Raise party defense against dragons

Call Yung Wyvern Lv.5
Delay: 1:00:00
Duration: Till Death
Calls a yung wyvern to fight by your side

Call Wyvern Lv.35
Delay: 1:00:00
Duration: Till Death
Calls a wyvern to fight by your side

Call Old Wyvern Lv.65
Delay: 1:00:00
Duration: Till Death
Calls a old wyvern to fight by your side

Job Trait:

Attack Bonus I Lv.10
Improve power of physical attack by 10%

Dragon Killer Lv.25
Give you edge when fighting dargons

Accuracy Bonus I Lv.30
Improve accuracy of physical attack by 10%

Attack Bonus II Lv.50
Improve power of physical attack by 20%

Note I: Dragoon cannot use any abilitys while airborn or get attacked but can use pet commands (Dragoon will still keep his agro)
Note II: Lance weapon does not include normal polearms but only the DRG Lances
Note III: Attack Bonus II overwrites Attack Bonus I and Call Wyvern overwrite Call Yung Wyvern and same with Old Wyvern
Note IV: Lance type weapons become a bit slower as a result of better jumps (masters of the air not land poking ^^ warriors)
Note V: Jumps have 2x your normal accuracy but cannot make critical hits
<------------------------------------------------------------------------>

<<<Yung Wyvern>>>
Yung Wyvern is a bit weaker than the wyvern we have now

Pet commands:
Attack
Disengage
Rest

Elemental Breath I
Delay: 0:02:00
Duration: Instant
Random Elemental Breath attack

<<<Wyvern>>>
Wyvern is the wyvern we all know and some hate

Pet commands:
Attack
Disengage
Rest

Elemental Breath II
Delay: 0:02:00
Duration: Instant
Random Elemental Breath attack

<<[list=1]>>
Old Wyvern is a bit stronger than the wyvern we have now

Pet commands:
Attack
Disengage
Rest

Elemental Breath III
Delay: 0:02:00
Duration: Instant
Random Elemental Breath attack

<------------------------------------------------------------------------>

Tell me what you think.

[Dredge]

Originally posted by Elusivellama
I don't understand how you fail to see the point behind my post? My point is not that we SUCK at doing damage with our weapon skills or with normal swipes, and need a power boost. My point is our abilities are half-assed, and could stand to be updated or totally revamped.

Jump attacks? Look at the way they're now...you hit the macro, and an instant attack is busted out, with a 30 - 40% chance of missing, even on something like a GODDAMNED Forest Hare (yes, I've missed on my jumps on a Forest Hare in Sandoria). Even if you connect, all it does is regular damage, possibly a little bit more. No stun effect that you'd expect from landing on the monster's head with a spear, no armor break...nothing beyond damage. High jump just sheds some hate, but does nothing else other than damage. Did I mention that they miss so much that they seem very gimmicky? It's just an extra attack, something you'd expect like Double Attack, but with a timer.

Job traits? 3 job traits, woohoo, and one of them is worthless (Dragon Killer). The other two are of questionable value, especially that Accuracy Trait.

Job abilities? Wow, I get to use Ancient Circle. Now I get 1 minute's worth of useless protection against dragon-type enemies, who last much longer than 1 minute of fighting.

2hr ability? When the shit hits the fan, I can call my wyvern to do piddly damage and die to the next few AOE attacks. Meanwhile, the BLM is dumping attack spell after attack spell with manafont, the RDM is chainspelling, the MNK is going nuts with Hundred Fists, etc etc Even the DRK is hitting with Blood Weapon and gaining HP back - doing SOMETHING at least, in any emergencies requiring the use of 2hrs.

See my gripe? I'm sure you DRKs have a wishlist of your own, which would sound almost exactly like mine, and I dare you to call that DRK wishlist whiney "why isn't my class the best class ever? /sigh /cry" type rhetoric.


I can't believe you think Blood Weapon is better than Call Wyvern. Wtf? Do you even play this game? Blood Weapon is only worthwhile when used with Soul Eater and then its just a slightly more powerful version of Soul Eater. But only for 30 secs and considering how slow Scythes are thats not very many swings at all. I would gladly trade Blood Weapon for Call Wyvern. I would probably throw Last Resort into the deal as well.

I've never heard of a DRK wish-list and I've never heard a DRK whine about their class being under-powered. Anyone who chose a DRK knew what they were getting into, i.e. that you would be second rate melee until level 60 and that from level 49-59 DRGs, AMs, and MNKs will almost always get picked over you and they will always out-damage you if they know how to play their class at all.

[Tidane]

To the above poster

I agree with that. I think out of all the times I've used Blood Weapon, the most swings I've got in was 3 or 4. I've only Drained once, which makes me seem the accuracy decreases when you use it.

[Souma]

the only thing i really want is for DRG to get better armor. i mean, DRK and WAR get thick/hauberk set, though quite expensive. just not much to look forward to :(

[Synbios]

Originally posted by sonova
all 3 expansion jobs are rather half assed

DRGs mostly suffer from the equipment side of their implemetation

jumps / WSes etc are fine atm, imo. being able to get +24 TP and drop aggro at the same time rox. and that jumps have a maximum of 2x normal damage. It just suffers from a high variance

the wyvern is the only 2hour that lasts beyond 30 seconds of its activation. if you want to see a gimpy 2hour you should check out the RDM 2 hour or the ninja 2 hour


also you must remember that +10dex is only approx +5 acc which actually means very little in the long run. plus theres always a chance of missing since the hit miss thingamabob(as well as damage) is determined by an algorithm rather than just a baseline comparison. RDM 2 hr is not gimpy. IMO it's the next best 2 hr after Hundred Fist. Chainspell + Escape/Warp is very useful for saving your ass, and after 40.. 2 hr, nuke until MP is drained, convert, cure cure, and back to nuking. DRG 2 hr is useless, wait till you level on crabs, gobs or any of thosewith AOE attacks, these wyverns don't last more than 5 mins, and they don't do much shit when they're out.

[baddwin]

Here what i would like to see and is posible to do without changing the game mechanic:

- Add critical hit on Jump type attack

- command to make pet sit

- more gears, there not alot of choice for Drg, even worst Drg is a Sandy quest and you find almost none Drg items from CP items(for Sandy). I got near 40K of CP and can't buy stuff for now, at lev 50 there a Lance and i know of another items like in the 60.

- remove the lost of pet when using Chocobo, it make little sense that you can any kind of transport and don't lost you wyvern but using a mundane Bird you lost it.

- add another accuracy or melee bonus after 40 (ya this one require more work from the programmer), or make it so that sub class bonus add to our bonus.

[Tidane]

Originally posted by Synbios
RDM 2 hr is not gimpy. IMO it's the next best 2 hr after Hundred Fist. Chainspell + Escape/Warp is very useful for saving your ass, and after 40.. 2 hr, nuke until MP is drained, convert, cure cure, and back to nuking. DRG 2 hr is useless, wait till you level on crabs, gobs or any of thosewith AOE attacks, these wyverns don't last more than 5 mins, and they don't do much shit when they're out.

They shouldn't have to worry about the AoE attacks. A BLM or DRK should have Stun ready, and PLD (maybe its Warrior, I really don't have a clue) should have Shield Bash.

[hadokenx]

Pld only can sheild bash once every 5 min, not nearly enough to keep the poor wyvrens alive. And most drk ive played with have bigger shoe sizes than IQ so they dont even know what stun is.

I agree whole-heartedly with this thread, Drg get screwed in more ways than one. There is so much that SE could do with them too, but probably wont.

I recently started playing Drg as a second job because i have always liked them in previous games and much to my chagrin Drg have almost nothing special to contribute to a party, the are basicly War with a Wyvren for about 1 fight every 2hours. I've got some ideas of my own that would be nice for drg aswell

1. Wyvren survivability. This is desperately needed, most Wyvrens ive seen take about 60-70% damage from any given AE attack from an IT while lvln (i've seen on one-hit as weill). This is a travesty considering its the Drg's 2hour and livelyhood and needs to be changed. Either a huge boost in def (hey they are dragons after all), or a massive boost in hp (again dragon), and some resists would be nice.

2. Wyvren usefullness. Its nice to have the Wyvren attacking but it really isnt that much help. I would like to see either the Wyvrens be able to determine the weakness of a mob then use the appropriate breath after a WS, or maybe even allow the wyvren to MB (this would be cool but would take alot more changes to implement). A cool way of doing these would be to have your wyvren mature as you go along get a passive every few levels like "Arcane Knowledge" or something that improves the wyvrens ability to use the appropriate breath or MB whichever is implemented.

3. Drg as a whole. Drg are pretty much damage dealers with nothing great to do damage with. Sure they get Pentathrust but do they get anything else? No not really. I would like to see an Extra Acc boost somewhere along the way as well as maybe considering giving them a Crti attack+ passive and make them a kind of crit based damage dealer, throw in some crit+ items along the way and there you go. (kinda makes since because you could only assume the masters of lances and spears could use them to penetrate weaknesses in armor). This would also give them more variation to their subjob so atleast you could get away with not subbing sam post 60 and maybe sube war for berserk and double attack, or maybe thf.

4. Jumps. Having them hit every once in a while would be a start. I swear i didnt land a single jump in bout 30-40 min the other day. Having them do crit damage would be nice as well as lowering the charge on the first one to somewhere in the neighbor hood of 45-60s mabye even lower.

5. 2hour. The way it stands now Call Wyvren is barely deserving of a 1/2hour recharge musch less 2hour. Drg need a new one badly, I liked the idea of having one that eliminates jump charge time. Another interesting possiblity would be a Eagle Eye Shot type skill that consists of one massive dragon breath (if your dragon isnt out it comes for the attack then leaves). Could be called something like "Chromatic Breath" and deal magic type damage but with no element type so that it cant be resisted.

I'm not saying ALL of these need to be implemented,(that would probaly make them over powered) but just enough to give Drg a fighting chance to be even with the other classes in a balance perspective.

[Tidane]

Good job insulting DRKs hadokenx! :P

I can use Stun every 45 seconds, and Weapon Bash every five minutes, and I don't have any trouble keeping AoEs from going off. With a BLM that knows Stun, its even easier.

About the Wyverns...there is a reason the breath doesn't work perfect, atleast I thought so. I remembered hearing that part of DRG AF was to make the wyvern "smarter" about its breath attacks.

I do agree that Jump accuracy and the 2hr probably needs to be changed. Its just horrible accuracy...especially after you play FFIV.

[NowherMan]

Imo as a lvl 50 Drg we're not screwed. I'd like to be able to use chain type armour like Ninjas or Samurais but Drgs can't and so far it hasn't really bothered me. With High Jump and Super Jump I can be a bit more reckless in putting out damage than other damage dealing classes. So far the only real problem I've had with Drgs is a complete lack of ranged attacks, we can't even lob pebbles at mobs. It's not a major problem but it seems every now and again I get stuck in a pick up group which elects me puller and since it seems using jump puts you in a mob's agro range I'm left voke pulling, which is never good.

On the subject of our 2 Hr, yes we have the only 2hr that can't be busted out to save our asses or our party's but up to 50 I haven't had an overly large problem keeping my Wyvern alive. PTs I'm in normally have a break for one reason or another every now and again that lets me heal the wyvern a bit, but losing it isn't a huge loss except for breath attacks on the WSes. However if you want to complain about a 2hr then I should say I feel bards get shafted harder.

Unless you really, really like Disco balls.

[hadokenx]

Originally posted by Tidane
Good job insulting DRKs hadokenx! :P


Heh its just after so many, drk wearing full RSE and combining as many attack up/def down buffs as they can while the party is trying to set up SATA you start to hate them. Especially when its followed by "OMG look at my 1337 dam! Hey! why is it attacking me"

I didnt know that about the AF helm i thought it just increased Wyvren breath damage. Maybe one day with the AF helm my wyvren will stop using Hydrobreath against pugils and clippers^^

[NowherMan]

I think a fair improvement to Dragoon AF would be to switch the helm from increasing the power of the wyvern's breath attacks to ensuring it doesn't use weak elements on the mobs. Then to switch the Jump power increase to an accuracy increase and the Wyvern accuracy increase for a power increase.

I don't feel these changes would effect Drgs overly but it might give us a reason to wear AF outside of, "it's cheap," and, "OMG it's kewl and shiney!"

[Duckstick]

the AF helm doesnt suddenly make your wyvern NOT a jackass , he will continue to use hydro breath on pugils, it changes the activation hp / output of breaths , activation refers to Heal breath. with a pure mage sub and the helm on heal breath will go off on a cast if you are at half or bellow your maximum hp. Nothing to underestimate, It also ups the power of the breath to do about 200 worth of healing. Anyway dragoons ARENT underpowered with the right gear for a while. Penta thrust might leave you feeling lacking when your fruity dark knight pal gets guillotine and stacks resort berserk and souleater and does 1k on a IT but thats not the point. A few things would be changed but i can promise you the more broken classes will be adressed before dragoon.

Ninja / summoner realy need some love , neither are working as intended. Summoner is a glorified heal tank that only finds summoning effeciency in cycling defensive party abilitys, recalling the summons as soon as they use them. And ninja ... well.... im just guessing the devs didnt say "Hey lets make an assassin class ... give them shity WS's , dumpy melee dmg... but then we can give them a way to tank without losing hp! and make it cost large wads of money to do!"

If i was going to change dragoon in any way id up jump damage / accuracy and throw in a 2nd accuracy up trait at 50, the "_____ up" traits generaly go 10 22 32 in power , so a 2nd accuracy up would more then be enough. As far as the wyvern goes i think if its already up and your 2hour is also up it should turn into a damaging 2hour ... maybe force berserk or some wicked breath on the wyvern, a non elemental breath with high offensive base dmg, a la bahamut. The wyvern is never going to be as badass as it was when you were a noob , but it will deal steady dmg , and more then your paladin generaly ... its there to tack on the extra 100 or + if it uses the right element when you WS

[Elusivellama]

I recently started playing Drg as a second job because i have always liked them in previous games and much to my chagrin Drg have almost nothing special to contribute to a party, the are basicly War with a Wyvren for about 1 fight every 2hours.

Yep, this is the main reason why I'm so pissed that DRG got the shaft. This is how a typical fight goes...I swing at the mob, bust out my Jump attack (and miss), turn on Berserk then continue swinging for the next 5 attacks. BTW, my wyvern is dead, as usual.

Meanwhile the DRK has his berserk on, and is swinging, casting Drain or Aspir, or Drain-Agil, and hitting for around the same damage as I am.

Goblin starts charging up a bomb. I keep auto-attacking helplessly, but the DRK casts Stun and stops the bomb from going off.

3 attacks later, the goblin tries the bomb again, DRK weapon bashes it and stops it yet again. Meanwhile, I'm still swinging my polearm. We kill the goblin.

Next goblin comes in, my Berserk wears off. Skillchain time. DRK busts out Souleater and Last Resort after the PLD builds up some hate on the goblin, and participates in the renkei. I use High Jump, but miss. Goblin charges up a bomb. DRK casts Stun. I'm still swinging away with my polearm...

Get the idea? Basically, he has TONS more options and more utility to the party while barely sacrificing any damage output compared to my attacks. On top of that, he has more armor options than I do.

Even when I hit level 50 and get Super High Jump, I'll still be a warrior with 3 Jumps while the DRK (our main competitor for damage melee slots) has Stun, Weapon Bash, Drain, Aspir, Drain-Agil, Last Resort, Soul Eater, more armor options, more attack up bonuses.


DRG got the shaft big time. And please don't tell me Pentathrust makes up for it - I wouldn't pick a job based on a single weapon skill - I always look at OTHER options for utility in the party.

DRKs, on the other hand, have only one glaring weakness - which is the 2hr ability.

I know the trolling DRKs who read this thread will go 'omg stfu DRG whining noob, DRG si overpoawrared alreddy, wtf more u want?!?1one', but I don't expect any worthwhile constructive criticism out of them. They see a thread like this, and their left side of the brain just shuts off. All they see is a DRG who wants their class to overpower the DRK in every possible way, when this is not the case. I don't want DRG to be overpowered. I just want to be par, not sub-par.

1) My suggested Jumps give the power to help stop spells/AOE attacks, without giving us magic abilities. They also make the job far more interesting than it is now. DRGs are masters of the jump attack...but we only have 3 jumps, two of which have high miss rates and dont do anything other than damage? Ridiculous...

2) If chainjump doesnt sit well with people, then what about buffing our craptacular wyverns? They do NOT do 50% of our damage as everyone other than DRGs think they do...I typically hit for 70 - 90+ on CN crawlers, while the wyvern hits for only 15 or so. That is not 50% damage whatsoever. How about auto-regen? Making it sit on its own? Young/Regular/Elder wyverns as the DRG ups in level, making the wyvern even better as the job progresses? Call Wyvern, as it is right now, sucks in EXP parties where the mobs have AOE...and it seems that more and more mobs have AOE attacks nowadays.

3) What about more job traits? 1 acc bonus, 1 attack bonus and dragon killer is not nearly enough once you get past level 30.

4) Armor options? It's ridiculous what we can and cannot wear. This is a big oversight on the part of Square regarding Dragoons.


Do I want to give up on DRG? I do LIKE the concept of the job, but it is not fully realized. It is a half-baked job that was whipped up (along with SAM and NIN) over one lunchbreak at Square, and thrown into the Zilart expansion as last minute additions. I'd love to continue as a DRG. But I just hope Square will read at least some of the concerns that all we DRGs have about our jobs, and do something about it....but what are the chances of that happening? :(