Massively Multi-Disapointment

[Samsa]

This game has done nothing but piss me off since I got it a few days ago. Right from that stupid little bird for a pointer that makes it impossible to know where I am acctually pointing to being unable to make any significant changes to the controls, not to mention no alt+tab. I have played ALOT of games, and this by far has the most excessivly complicated, infuriating controls set up I have ever run into. Being forced to press ctlr+ whatever just to do one thing does not make it easier, it makes it annoying and kills smooth gameplay. Logging out takes 5 minutes for no real reason; - arrow logout, yes, are you sure you want to log out? back back logout, yes, exit, are you sure you really really want to exit? YES I WANT TO EXIT 5 MINUTES AGO! Overall I'm very surprised that Square Enix and the FF name is on this, maybe I have my expectations too high, but the many simple problems that plague this game are just inexcuseable. FF should have just stopped at VIII....

[dancingkat]

Yes...The computer version of the games controls are a bit complicated but...

May I be the first to tell you that you suck?

...

With that said...Sorry for your letdown? Tough it.

[Kailea]

Yes if you dont like it go away, FFXI is a very good game and so is FFIX, FFX and FFX-2, so you need to know your place and hush, coming here and starting a thread about how the game sucks, by the way the tip of the "bird", *cough* Chocobo *cough* pointer is the tip of his beak lol........................oh yeah and about the alt and ctrl thing, most MMRPGs are like this so deal with it!

[Malachi_Gage]

I think it really shows people's intelligence when they come onto a forum where (most) people love the game, and decide to totally trash talk the game. Go to a "I hate FFXI" forum and talk your trash there, the last thing we need is people like you bagging on FFXI even more.

[keflex]

Guys, he's completely entitled to his opinion, and nothing he said isn't true.

So far, I've played a couple MMORPGs (EverQuest and DAOC) and neither has had the ridiculously frustrating control layout/menu system as FFXI. In addition, neither has taken such a ridiculous time to exit the game (what genius at S-E decided to prevent cheating through the POL/Full-Screen method?). S-E screwed these two things up quite badly, imo, making it very frustrating for an experienced MMORPG gamer to do the things that he's used to doing w/ ease.

That being said, I'm still playing FFXI atm -- if only for a game that has a sense of progression until a game that I really want to play is out (WoW!).

[Khaelyn]

You did know this game was originally written for the PS2, right?

The controls work fine and make perfect sense there :) Except for talking to people and writing macros, you hardly even need the keyboard.

I understand that Samsa is entitled to an opinion, Keflex, but really, why is Samsa posting this here? Why is Samsa posting at all? If Samsa hates the game that much, Samsa should sell it/cancel the account/whatever. Why does Samsa need anyone else to validate his/hers opinion? It's not liked Samsa asked why everyone else likes this game so much or wanted to suggest how this game could be better; Samsa was just throwing a hissy fit about how the game was designed.

[LinkinFate]

The thing about this game is that you can use a gamepad to play it, and this makes it easier to play for some, but I rarely use it, except for chocobo and racing. This game is fun if you really get into it! I admit the controls are weird, but I'm quite used to it now, you shouldn't even use your mouse for this game, you dont need to.

[dancingkat]

Originally posted by Khaelyn
You did know this game was originally written for the PS2, right?

The controls work fine and make perfect sense there :) Except for talking to people and writing macros, you hardly even need the keyboard.

I understand that Samsa is entitled to an opinion, Keflex, but really, why is Samsa posting this here? Why is Samsa posting at all? If Samsa hates the game that much, Samsa should sell it/cancel the account/whatever. Why does Samsa need anyone else to validate his/hers opinion? It's not liked Samsa asked why everyone else likes this game so much or wanted to suggest how this game could be better; Samsa was just throwing a hissy fit about how the game was designed.

I completely agree. There is no point in this thread at all.

Humans adapt. Is he/she not human?

[keflex]

Originally posted by Khaelyn
You did know this game was originally written for the PS2, right?

The controls work fine and make perfect sense there :) Except for talking to people and writing macros, you hardly even need the keyboard.

I understand that Samsa is entitled to an opinion, Keflex, but really, why is Samsa posting this here? Why is Samsa posting at all? If Samsa hates the game that much, Samsa should sell it/cancel the account/whatever. Why does Samsa need anyone else to validate his/hers opinion? It's not liked Samsa asked why everyone else likes this game so much or wanted to suggest how this game could be better; Samsa was just throwing a hissy fit about how the game was designed.

I know it was written for the PS2 in mind, but you'd think the dev team could've at least made it more keyboard friendly, instead of force-locking keyboard users into the "gamepad" mode.

As for why Samsa is complaining; the same reason everyone complains, I suppose -- to try to find some validation for their complaints and so that he knows he's not the only one out there.

And if you can't complain about FFXI design issues on an FFXI board, where else can you complain? :(

[keflex]

Originally posted by dancingkat


I completely agree. There is no point in this thread at all.

Humans adapt. Is he/she not human?

Yes, humans have adapted to being able to see only 30 feet in front of them (in some of the rather horrid child abuse and sensory deprivation cases), but that doesn't mean they should.

I can adapt to having no hands, but should I have to?

[dancingkat]

Originally posted by keflex


And if you can't complain about FFXI design issues on an FFXI board, where else can you complain? :(

Oh, he can complain on the boards...but take a closer look...

We're on the Most Frequently Asked Questions board...

:rolleyes:

[keflex]

In that case, I call for this thread to be moved to a different forum. :sweat:

[dancingkat]

Originally posted by keflex


Yes, humans have adapted to being able to see only 30 feet in front of them (in some of the rather horrid child abuse and sensory deprivation cases), but that doesn't mean they should.

I can adapt to having no hands, but should I have to?

My answer is yes.

You have no hands.

Hell frickin yeah your gonna have to adapt.

[keflex]

Originally posted by dancingkat


My answer is yes.

You have no hands.

Hell frickin yeah your gonna have to adapt.

Let me explain:

Being able to use the full capabilities of a keyboard is analogous to having hands.

S-E decided to go the lazy man's route and has crippled the keyboard rather than adding additional keyboard customization (things we take entirely for granted).

It's not that I don't have hands, it's that the product that S-E developed is FORCING me to not use my hands.

[dancingkat]

IMO, we both make sense pal. But I have nothing else to say.

Move this topic and let the flammers flame plz.

[Omena]

Why couldn't you people just tell him NOT to touch the mouse? When I started playing I used the mouse and thought: "Boy is this slow and complicated". I simply forgot about the mouse and learned to use the keyboard and it works perfectly for me now.

I agree about the logging in and out thing, though. It really does take forever.

[Dreakon]

Originally posted by keflex

1.) I've played a couple MMORPGs (EverQuest and DAOC) and neither has had the ridiculously frustrating control layout/menu system as FFXI.

2.) In addition, neither has taken such a ridiculous time to exit the game (what genius at S-E decided to prevent cheating through the POL/Full-Screen method?). S-E screwed these two things up quite badly, imo, making it very frustrating for an experienced MMORPG gamer to do the things that he's used to doing w/ ease.


1.) That's completely opinion. I like FFXIs layouts/menus and I hated EQs first ones since it took up 3/4's of the screen. It made it seem like a freakin' text game.

2.) Hahahahahahahahahahahah! You have to be kidding me. I recently played EQ and not only does it take over 6 minutes to get into the game (about 3 just to check for patches and maybe 3-4 to get to the character select screen and into the game) but getting out is just as bad! You still have to wait the 30 seconds to "camp" (log out) then you take a minute to get to the character select screen, then the lengthly 3-4 minutes to get back to the server select screen and the main menu. And THEN you can finally exit the game. DAOC I have no say since I can't really remember much about ti.


If there's one thing that irritates me most it's when people make up stuff. EQ pales in comparison to FFXI especially in these two areas so please no one EVER say EQ has less loading and exiting time then FFXI.



*Quote was altered to give my answer some kind of layout. Keflex's text in his/her post was not altered at all.*

[Malachi_Gage]

wow, i've never seen a thread where all the people who posted that play/want to play elvaan's used the same avatar!!! lol, neato:thumbsup:

[keflex]

Originally posted by Dreakon


1.) That's completely opinion. I like FFXIs layouts/menus and I hated EQs first ones since it took up 3/4's of the screen. It made it seem like a freakin' text game.

Er, no. Customizable EQ windows, where you can shunt text to a different window if necessary (if you want to be able to take a quick glance at information w/out being bogged down by other details), the ability to RESIZE windows (yes, if that window is too big, you can easily SHRINK it or MINIMIZE it), customizable UI if the default isn't to your liking... right, 3/4's of the screen and text game indeed...


2.) Hahahahahahahahahahahah! You have to be kidding me. I recently played EQ and not only does it take over 6 minutes to get into the game (about 3 just to check for patches and maybe 3-4 to get to the character select screen and into the game) but getting out is just as bad! You still have to wait the 30 seconds to "camp" (log out) then you take a minute to get to the character select screen, then the lengthly 3-4 minutes to get back to the server select screen and the main menu. And THEN you can finally exit the game. DAOC I have no say since I can't really remember much about ti.

ROFL. I think you seriously have NOT played EQ. Smart players use EQWindows (you know, the 3rd party app that probably 90% of all EQ players use... you know, also the one that allows you to skip patch checks, which cut down on an amazing amount of time... you know, the one you apparently missed out on). After skipping the patch check process, it's 1 minute to logging in. As opposed to "logging in to POL" and then "play game FFXI" and then "skip the mandatory 'Don't get too addicted to FFXI! Your friends, family and co-workers may blame us!' disclaimer". I guess perhaps you need to upgrade that computer if it really takes you as much time to log in to EQ as it does FFXI.

Also, camping out may take 30 seconds (just like FFXI), but after that, it's all "esc key, esc key, esc key", none of this POL trash where you have to "log out - unless you want corrupted data" "exit viewer" waste of time.


If there's one thing that irritates me most it's when people make up stuff. EQ pales in comparison to FFXI especially in these two areas so please no one EVER say EQ has less loading and exiting time then FFXI.

Lol. Seriously. You've GOT to be kidding.

[Khaelyn]

Originally posted by keflex
ROFL. I think you seriously have NOT played EQ. Smart players use EQWindows (you know, the 3rd party app that probably 90% of all EQ players use... you know, also the one that allows you to skip patch checks, which cut down on an amazing amount of time... you know, the one you apparently missed out on). After skipping the patch check process, it's 1 minute to logging in. As opposed to "logging in to POL" and then "play game FFXI" and then "skip the mandatory 'Don't get too addicted to FFXI! Your friends, family and co-workers may blame us!' disclaimer". I guess perhaps you need to upgrade that computer if it really takes you as much time to log in to EQ as it does FFXI.

Also, camping out may take 30 seconds (just like FFXI), but after that, it's all "esc key, esc key, esc key", none of this POL trash where you have to "log out - unless you want corrupted data" "exit viewer" waste of time.

Sooo... smart players install extra apps (isn't that against the EULA for EQ?), don't get the most upgraded version of the game (ooh, I can't upgrade, that would break my 3rd party macro tool!), and don't care if they are addicted to the game (not that it really matters one way or another...) and don't care if their character data is corrupted?

Is it really that hard to press return a few times when it is done saving? When would you prefer the game to save your progress? Everytime you zone? When you level? When you come back to town? Where do you want your performance hit? It has to be somewhere. Why not at the end of your session?

Laughing at someone is not a rebuttal of their argument. Weren't you ever a debater? That only loses points for your whole side, not just your argument.

[Thoronas]

Originally posted by keflex
Also, camping out may take 30 seconds (just like FFXI), but after that, it's all "esc key, esc key, esc key", none of this POL trash where you have to "log out - unless you want corrupted data" "exit viewer" waste of time.


To log out of FFXI is basically esc key, esc key, return key, esc key return key. That isn't much different.

But more importantly this entire thread is a sham. It was started by a troll who has made one post on this forum. Maybe if he was a long-time member his opinion might have some merit here. Instead it's like witnessing a drunken bum wander into McDonald's and rant about how shitty McDonald's food is.

[myndreach]

Originally posted by keflex
ROFL. I think you seriously have NOT played EQ. Smart players use EQWindows (you know, the 3rd party app that probably 90% of all EQ players use... you know, also the one that allows you to skip patch checks, which cut down on an amazing amount of time... you know, the one you apparently missed out on). After skipping the patch check process, it's 1 minute to logging in. As opposed to "logging in to POL" and then "play game FFXI" and then "skip the mandatory 'Don't get too addicted to FFXI! Your friends, family and co-workers may blame us!' disclaimer". I guess perhaps you need to upgrade that computer if it really takes you as much time to log in to EQ as it does FFXI.

You have to be kidding? You are talking about a 3rd party app here...nothing to do with SOE or S-E's games...we are talking about having to login and out taking so long, something about the actual game developed by the programmers. On one hand you are slamming S-E for it taking so long to get out of the game, while saying EQ is so much better when it is not. It takes just as long to get out with EQ...it's not S-E's fault that no one has developed 3rd party software. You should be slamming SOE also for taking so long to get out of the game if you are slamming S-E...c'mon stop being a hypocrite.

As far as the controls go, my friends all said use only the keyboard, ignore the mouse. Well I was stubborn and used the mouse...for about 30 minutes lol before I realized it sucked. I started using only the keyboard (one hand near tab/escape and control and the other on the numberpad/arrow keys), and within an hour I was not aware I was controlling the game, it was quite intuitive and smooth to control.

[Jei]

i never understand why people would want to go to a FFXI's lovers' site to tell us how much he hates the game. Doesn't make sense. : /

what for?

[keflex]

Originally posted by Khaelyn


Sooo... smart players install extra apps (isn't that against the EULA for EQ?), don't get the most upgraded version of the game (ooh, I can't upgrade, that would break my 3rd party macro tool!), and don't care if they are addicted to the game (not that it really matters one way or another...) and don't care if their character data is corrupted?

You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play.

What game play changes are you supposing that EQWindows alters?

You are FORCED to get the upgraded version of the game when you are kicked out of the server for having an incompatible version. Getting kicked out 1x out of every couple months to know you have to patch beats waiting an extra minute or two every login just to make sure that they didn't just decide to patch everyday.

Addiction will occur regardless of whether there's some ridiculous message saying, "Don't become addicted!", if the person is pre-disposed. Or are you telling me that those anti-drug slogans aren't working because people aren't seeing them enough?

And no, 3rd party software (believe me, I was familiar w/ the 3rd party software scene when it came to EQ) doesn't alter the actual game files, or else the server would force a re-patch. Sorry, but S-E feeding you the line that your character will get deleted because you're using a macro tool is a load of bull.

Is it really that hard to press return a few times when it is done saving? When would you prefer the game to save your progress? Everytime you zone? When you level? When you come back to town? Where do you want your performance hit? It has to be somewhere. Why not at the end of your session?

Er, what're you talking about? Character information is saved at intervals during gameplay, if I'm correct. If it's not, and it's saved at the very end of the playing session (which would be EXTREMELY foolish, since it opens the door to all kinds of exploits), then S-E has made a HUGE mistake. And character saving has to be seamless, or else it would make a huge impact on gameplay (imagine having to wait several seconds every X minutes while the server saves your client information).

Laughing at someone is not a rebuttal of their argument. Weren't you ever a debater? That only loses points for your whole side, not just your argument.

Lol. The following statement by him:

If there's one thing that irritates me most it's when people make up stuff. EQ pales in comparison to FFXI especially in these two areas so please no one EVER say EQ has less loading and exiting time then FFXI.

is NOT an argument. There are no statements that provide support for a conclusion. Therefore, I laugh.

(Anyway, if you look at the replies prior to his, all of them have been respectful and rather calm, because the other posters have given me the same respect).

[keflex]

Originally posted by Thoronas


To log out of FFXI is basically esc key, esc key, return key, esc key return key. That isn't much different.

True, but logging out of POL is an added and unnecessary step, since you shouldn't even have to use POL to access FFXI anyway. The fact that they force you to use POL, just in case you want to access "Tetra Master", is ridiculous to those players who don't intend on playing any other game. And I'm going to say that probably 80% of the FFXI gaming population doesn't care one way or another about "Tetra Master".

[keflex]

Originally posted by myndreach


You have to be kidding? You are talking about a 3rd party app here...nothing to do with SOE or S-E's games...we are talking about having to login and out taking so long, something about the actual game developed by the programmers. On one hand you are slamming S-E for it taking so long to get out of the game, while saying EQ is so much better when it is not. It takes just as long to get out with EQ...it's not S-E's fault that no one has developed 3rd party software. You should be slamming SOE also for taking so long to get out of the game if you are slamming S-E...c'mon stop being a hypocrite.

Er, no. I can exit EQ much more quickly than I can exit FFXI (and this is NOT using 3rd party apps for EQ). The login, yes, but even w/out using EQWindows, I can run a quick patch check and log in to EQ FASTER than the time it takes to log in to POL and FFXI. So, anyway you slice it, EQ login/logout is faster.

And I'm willing to prove it.

As far as the controls go, my friends all said use only the keyboard, ignore the mouse. Well I was stubborn and used the mouse...for about 30 minutes lol before I realized it sucked. I started using only the keyboard (one hand near tab/escape and control and the other on the numberpad/arrow keys), and within an hour I was not aware I was controlling the game, it was quite intuitive and smooth to control.

Yes, it's very nice.

However, imagine if not only you could use the keyboard like that, BUT ALSO CUSTOMIZE THE KEYBOARD TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Imagine, instead of hitting ctrl+a to attack, you could just hit the kp_enter key. Imagine, instead of hitting ctrl+h or alt+h to both do the same thing (heal), you could use ctrl+h and alt+h to do completely different things. Imagine, if you weren't comfortable w/ using their ctrl+# layout for macros, you could just bind it to the keypad numbers. These are things I've been able to do to increase my efficiency... if you'll notice, some people use a different layout because it's more comfortable for them, others use a different layout because they're more familiar w/ it, still others try to find the most efficient layout for their gameplay style. All of this requires a certain level of customization, one that FFXI sorely lacks. The fact that they don't provide that customization greatly disappoints me.

And a mouse is definitely necessary when you need to re-target mobs, since F8 only works on the nearest mobs/npcs.

[myndreach]

Originally posted by keflex


Er, no. I can exit EQ much more quickly than I can exit FFXI (and this is NOT using 3rd party apps for EQ). The login, yes, but even w/out using EQWindows, I can run a quick patch check and log in to EQ FASTER than the time it takes to log in to POL and FFXI. So, anyway you slice it, EQ login/logout is faster.

And I'm willing to prove it.



umm...entering the game isn't hard, you open POL, games, ffxi, enter a few times...it takes me like i think maybe 15 seconds to get in



[b]

Yes, it's very nice.

However, imagine if not only you could use the keyboard like that, BUT ALSO CUSTOMIZE THE KEYBOARD TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Imagine, instead of hitting ctrl+a to attack, you could just hit the kp_enter key. Imagine, instead of hitting ctrl+h or alt+h to both do the same thing (heal), you could use ctrl+h and alt+h to do completely different things. Imagine, if you weren't comfortable w/ using their ctrl+# layout for macros, you could just bind it to the keypad numbers. These are things I've been able to do to increase my efficiency... if you'll notice, some people use a different layout because it's more comfortable for them, others use a different layout because they're more familiar w/ it, still others try to find the most efficient layout for their gameplay style. All of this requires a certain level of customization, one that FFXI sorely lacks. The fact that they don't provide that customization greatly disappoints me.

And a mouse is definitely necessary when you need to re-target mobs, since F8 only works on the nearest mobs/npcs.

uhh i do use kp_enter key to attack....what are you talking about? target enemy, enter enter and i attack...

and i do believe there is an option to reconfigure the keys different ways. Oh and i've never had to use the mouse to target....you use tab to target everyone around...it cycles all of them not just the closest.

[Omena]

Originally posted by keflex
However, imagine if not only you could use the keyboard like that, BUT ALSO CUSTOMIZE THE KEYBOARD TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Imagine, instead of hitting ctrl+a to attack, you could just hit the kp_enter key. Imagine, instead of hitting ctrl+h or alt+h to both do the same thing (heal), you could use ctrl+h and alt+h to do completely different things. Imagine, if you weren't comfortable w/ using their ctrl+# layout for macros, you could just bind it to the keypad numbers. These are things I've been able to do to increase my efficiency... if you'll notice, some people use a different layout because it's more comfortable for them, others use a different layout because they're more familiar w/ it, still others try to find the most efficient layout for their gameplay style. All of this requires a certain level of customization, one that FFXI sorely lacks. The fact that they don't provide that customization greatly disappoints me.

And a mouse is definitely necessary when you need to re-target mobs, since F8 only works on the nearest mobs/npcs. [/B]

How about you learn the keys before posting? I only use ctrl+[something] with macros. There is a separate button for healing (*) and you can target everything on the screen with either tab or kp_ins. Then you attack by pressing enter twice in a row. How is that so difficult?

[Kailea]

I do admit the game could use a little more customization, but that does not make the game suck, an also no alt+tab and the whole POL idea is to keep out hackers, and logging out only take about 1min lol, stop the complaints, the game is the way it is and there is nothing that will be done about it ^.^

[DJplaeskool]

There is a fast method to properly logout...

http://www.djplaeskool.com/Images/Logout.jpg

Move mouse to the upper righthand corner of the POL window.
A transparent account bar will scroll down.
Click the icon at the right edge.
Note: If you are /pol from the game, this Logout icon will be replaced with "Return to Game"

http://www.djplaeskool.com/Images/Logout2.jpg

After Clicking, you will be asked if you would like to logout and return to the top login screen.

http://www.djplaeskool.com/Images/Logout3.jpg

Voila~
ready to login as different user, change settings, or exit the viewer.

[Dreakon]

Originally posted by keflex


1.)Er, no. Customizable EQ windows, where you can shunt text to a different window if necessary (if you want to be able to take a quick glance at information w/out being bogged down by other details), the ability to RESIZE windows (yes, if that window is too big, you can easily SHRINK it or MINIMIZE it), customizable UI if the default isn't to your liking... right, 3/4's of the screen and text game indeed...

2.) ROFL. I think you seriously have NOT played EQ. Smart players use EQWindows (you know, the 3rd party app that probably 90% of all EQ players use... you know, also the one that allows you to skip patch checks, which cut down on an amazing amount of time... you know, the one you apparently missed out on). After skipping the patch check process, it's 1 minute to logging in. As opposed to "logging in to POL" and then "play game FFXI" and then "skip the mandatory 'Don't get too addicted to FFXI! Your friends, family and co-workers may blame us!' disclaimer". I guess perhaps you need to upgrade that computer if it really takes you as much time to log in to EQ as it does FFXI.

3.) Also, camping out may take 30 seconds (just like FFXI), but after that, it's all "esc key, esc key, esc key", none of this POL trash where you have to "log out - unless you want corrupted data" "exit viewer" waste of time.


1.) You do realize SOE changed the UI like 3-4 years after the game was released. I was talking about the old crappy one. Give Square 3-4 years and I am sure they will work something out too if it's that bad. :rolleyes:

2.) So smart players are supposed to alter parts of the game (logging in and out) in order to get an enjoyable, non-time consuming experience? Sounds like the people that made the program have a better idea of what they are doing then SOE for this matter. They added the disclamer for security reasons, the last thing they want is lawsuits for idiots that commited suicide while playing their game (like too many EQ addicts).

3.) POL is a program within itself. It's not JUST a portal for FFXI though that is a plus feature. People use it for other things and while it probably wasn't the best idea to connect the two, it doesnt even take that long to use (maybe about 1-2 minutes before you get to the FFXI select character menu)..... possibly even faster if you know where to click right away.

A few points you were right about but coming to a FFXI fan site and claiming the lunky, 5 year old EQ is better then FFXI is just plain stupid.

[dancingkat]

Originally posted by Kailea-D
I do admit the game could use a little more customization, but that does not make the game suck, an also no alt+tab and the whole POL idea is to keep out hackers, and logging out only take about 1min lol, stop the complaints, the game is the way it is and there is nothing that will be done about it ^.^

...Apparently...We couldnt just leave it at that :rolleyes:

This thread is dead :zzz: Please stop posting

[Dreakon]

Originally posted by dancingkat

This thread is dead :zzz: Please stop posting

If people are still posting, how is the thread dead?

[dancingkat]

Originally posted by Dreakon


If people are still posting, how is the thread dead?

Let me rephrase then...

-thinks-

This thread is now full of useful information, but it couldve been done alot better if the thread starter had asked a question instead such as...

"Log Out- Help Plz?" or whatever

But what I meant by this thread is being dead is that there's no point in it...

:dead: With that said, I dont know why Im still here

:sweat:

[Zelld]

you know though, it seems to ME that the interface with the text boxes and stuff ARE customizable. If peopel would take the time to actually READ THE INSTRUCTIONS that come wiht the damned game, they could quit their bitching.

HELL, even if you DON'T read the instructions, all you have to do is ask someone, or a bit of menu searching, adn you can figure out how to customize the chat window and other things.

Hell, why bother to even print the instructionbooklets if no one will read them, maybe shave a buck or two off the price of the game by not including the instructions. the companies can save money by not needing to hire people to write them, save money by not needing to print them, so hey, they could pass the saving on to US :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And i have NEVER had it take longer than 2minutes 30 seconds to get connected to the game, unless i was having network issues, and i have never taken more than 45 seconds to get completely logged out. Even if going through all the log out steps, which i WILL admit is kinda pointless, it still has never taken longer than 45 seconds.

And I started the game a year ago with the JP version, and STILL was able to figure out the menu's and how to log in and log out and even then it still took the same amount of time as it takes me on the NA version.

[keflex]

Originally posted by myndreach


umm...entering the game isn't hard, you open POL, games, ffxi, enter a few times...it takes me like i think maybe 15 seconds to get in

It's not hard, but there are certain elements to it that are pointless and that are a waste of time. After all, that's what the OP was complaining about.



uhh i do use kp_enter key to attack....what are you talking about? target enemy, enter enter and i attack...

I'm talking about using kp_enter to attack right away, just like ctrl+a allows you to attack right away.

and i do believe there is an option to reconfigure the keys different ways. Oh and i've never had to use the mouse to target....you use tab to target everyone around...it cycles all of them not just the closest.

You only have limited customization of keys, since they force you to use single keys for movement/camera/(something else) but force you to use a button combination (ctrl+ or alt+) to access other actions/menus such as attacking, inventory menu, equipment menu. Why would I want to hit ctrl+i for inventory when I could just hit "i"? It doesn't make sense.

And yes, tab cycles through targets, but unless you want to cycle through all available targets on screen (meaning any PCs in your field of vision + any mobs in your field of vision) to get to that single mob your Tank is pulling, then by all means, have fun.

[keflex]

Originally posted by Omena


How about you learn the keys before posting? I only use ctrl+[something] with macros. There is a separate button for healing (*) and you can target everything on the screen with either tab or kp_ins. Then you attack by pressing enter twice in a row. How is that so difficult?

Uh, how about you read what I'm talking about before replying?

My argument isn't about the lack of single button commands as opposed to multiple button commands (although it is a gripe of mine), my argument is that FFXI doesn't allow a high enough level of customization.

No one is saying it's difficult; cumbersome for no visible purpose, yes. Difficult, no.

[keflex]

Originally posted by DJplaeskool
There is a fast method to properly logout...

Thanks for tip.

I use a slightly different way to logout/exit viewer:

1. After getting to the FFXI menu, I right-click to bring up the side bar and click logout.

2. Click "yes" to logout (Yes, S-E, when I click logout, I really, really want to log out... I'm not just kidding!).

3. Click Exit Viewer.

[keflex]

Originally posted by Dreakon


1.) You do realize SOE changed the UI like 3-4 years after the game was released. I was talking about the old crappy one. Give Square 3-4 years and I am sure they will work something out too if it's that bad. :rolleyes:

Too bad that S-E didn't realize that right off the bat. I mean, they make games for a living, right?

2.) So smart players are supposed to alter parts of the game (logging in and out) in order to get an enjoyable, non-time consuming experience? Sounds like the people that made the program have a better idea of what they are doing then SOE for this matter. They added the disclamer for security reasons, the last thing they want is lawsuits for idiots that commited suicide while playing their game (like too many EQ addicts).

Once again, read my reply to someone asking if EQWindows violated the EULA. Let me put this in bold for you:

It does not.

You want to know why? Because it doesn't alter any portion of SOE's software and it doesn't change gameplay.

In addition, do you honestly think that a little window telling you not to be addicted to something will actually prevent addiction? Apparently you've solved the drug and alcohol problem of today's society! Use more "don't be addicted" slogans!

3.) POL is a program within itself. It's not JUST a portal for FFXI though that is a plus feature. People use it for other things and while it probably wasn't the best idea to connect the two, it doesnt even take that long to use (maybe about 1-2 minutes before you get to the FFXI select character menu)..... possibly even faster if you know where to click right away.

I can probably get in to FFXI in a minute flat, or less, but the fact that I have to pre-place my mouse cursor on every button BEFORE it finishes loading and click through what seems like endless menus and confirmations is ridiculous when all I want to do is login, play a little while, and logout. And doing this several times a day becomes a pointless chore.

A few points you were right about but coming to a FFXI fan site and claiming the lunky, 5 year old EQ is better then FFXI is just plain stupid.

How odd. Perhaps you're replying to a statement I didn't make. You know, it's easy to assume I said EQ is better if you don't read my posts carefully.

The argument isn't "Which is better: EQ or FFXI" (and just as an insight, I actually rate EQ as the #1 worst MMORPG out of the ones I've played), but "Why did S-E add pointless windows and confirmations and cripple the keyboard when it would've been sensible to NOT do those things?"

[keflex]

Originally posted by Zelld
you know though, it seems to ME that the interface with the text boxes and stuff ARE customizable. If peopel would take the time to actually READ THE INSTRUCTIONS that come wiht the damned game, they could quit their bitching.

Eh, no. The windows are customizable if you want to select from one of 7 nifty background colors (Ooh, aah...!) or you want your window to auto-shrink when there is no output or if you even consider text filtering a "customization" (hell, filtering is a staple, and shouldn't even be considered a "customization" any more than a spare tire should be considered "an optional accessory").

I, otoh, prefer to be able to dictate the size and position of my windows, the number of windows, the information that goes to one window and not to another, etc.

HELL, even if you DON'T read the instructions, all you have to do is ask someone, or a bit of menu searching, adn you can figure out how to customize the chat window and other things.

Heh, I've customized my windows as much as I can, and it's STILL incredibly inefficient. The inability to dictate what information goes where, and how much of it I view in a particular area frustrates me. But I guess that's ok for you, since, you know, you can change the text colors to a nice lime-green.

Hell, why bother to even print the instructionbooklets if no one will read them, maybe shave a buck or two off the price of the game by not including the instructions. the companies can save money by not needing to hire people to write them, save money by not needing to print them, so hey, they could pass the saving on to US :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I agree completely.

And i have NEVER had it take longer than 2minutes 30 seconds to get connected to the game, unless i was having network issues, and i have never taken more than 45 seconds to get completely logged out. Even if going through all the log out steps, which i WILL admit is kinda pointless, it still has never taken longer than 45 seconds.

2.5 minutes to log in to a game is too long for me. I don't know, maybe because I'm used to other games where the wait time is 1 minute, at max. But hey, if you enjoy that extra 1.5 minutes doing nothing, enjoy.

And I started the game a year ago with the JP version, and STILL was able to figure out the menu's and how to log in and log out and even then it still took the same amount of time as it takes me on the NA version.

Yes, too bad no one is disputing the differences between JP and NA login/out time, since they're the same. Or how to use menus.

[Kailea]

ok stop complaining good lord...........the game is build the way it is to stop as much hacking and other stupid stuff as possible, and they came up with what we ahve now, if you dont like taking a whole, oh wow, min. to log in and about 1 1/2 min, to log out then DONT PLAY!

[Khaelyn]

Bad kitty! Don't feed the troll!

/em tries to distract Kailea-D with a warm fluffy pillow and some chocolate.

;)

[Dreakon]

Originally posted by keflex


1.) Too bad that S-E didn't realize that right off the bat. I mean, they make games for a living, right?

2.)Once again, read my reply to someone asking if EQWindows violated the EULA. Let me put this in bold for you:

It does not.

You want to know why? Because it doesn't alter any portion of SOE's software and it doesn't change gameplay.

3.) In addition, do you honestly think that a little window telling you not to be addicted to something will actually prevent addiction? Apparently you've solved the drug and alcohol problem of today's society! Use more "don't be addicted" slogans!

4.) The argument isn't "Which is better: EQ or FFXI" (and just as an insight, I actually rate EQ as the #1 worst MMORPG out of the ones I've played), but "Why did S-E add pointless windows and confirmations and cripple the keyboard when it would've been sensible to NOT do those things?"

1.) And SOE don't make games? They knew just as well as S-E but they still made the crappy UI, besides FFXI's UI isn't all that bad. A few minor inconveniencies, but nothing a normal person can't handle.

2.) I never said anything about the application breaking the EULA. I just mentioned how SOE obviously sucks worse then the independant programers that managed to do better then they did with the logging in and out time consumption problem (Simply, the people that made the program did better then the paid professionals). Seems stupid you would have to download that to enjoy your experience on a game that should be okay after 5 years out of the box.

3.) Thats their not that it will actually make a difference but if they did get a lawsuit from someone they could use this to say "it's not like we didn't warn him/her". Without it they would have nothing to defend their case.

4.) Your first post compared the UI and logging in and out times to EQ and DAOC. Thats where all this started I assume.

P.S: Khaelyn, I like that little Hiei thing you got in your sig ;)

[Dark Aphalite]

You suck hard core... get the hell out of these forums.

[keflex]

Originally posted by Dreakon


1.) And SOE don't make games? They knew just as well as S-E but they still made the crappy UI, besides FFXI's UI isn't all that bad. A few minor inconveniencies, but nothing a normal person can't handle.

Remember, EQ was not only released ~5 years ago, but was one of the first (and truly successful) MMORPGs. They had a lot to learn w/ no references that they could say, "Hey, this works and that doesn't." It was all trial-and-error.

FFXI, otoh, which was released a year ago, IIRC, has had plenty of predecessors to learn from.

2.) I never said anything about the application breaking the EULA. I just mentioned how SOE obviously sucks worse then the independant programers that managed to do better then they did with the logging in and out time consumption problem (Simply, the people that made the program did better then the paid professionals). Seems stupid you would have to download that to enjoy your experience on a game that should be okay after 5 years out of the box.

EQWindows is not necessary to enjoyment of the game. However, it is a very convenient and useful tool. Now, I didn't say that EQW is the only thing keeping EQ from having faster logout/login than FFXI, but if given the choice to use it or not, I would.

3.) Thats their not that it will actually make a difference but if they did get a lawsuit from someone they could use this to say "it's not like we didn't warn him/her". Without it they would have nothing to defend their case.

Which they could easily add as a disclaimer in their EULA or TOS.

4.) Your first post compared the UI and logging in and out times to EQ and DAOC. Thats where all this started I assume.

Actually, I compared it to just the login/logout time of EQ.

[keflex]

Originally posted by Kailea-D
ok stop complaining good lord...........the game is build the way it is to stop as much hacking and other stupid stuff as possible, and they came up with what we ahve now, if you dont like taking a whole, oh wow, min. to log in and about 1 1/2 min, to log out then DONT PLAY!

I'm sorry, but my "complaints" were simply part of my first post that other posters disagreed w/.

Of course, feeling the need to defend my views, I responded w/ examples.

I'm sorry if you don't like them.

[keflex]

Originally posted by Dark Aphalite
You suck hard core... get the hell out of these forums.

Come back when you can make a coherent argument. :)

[keflex]

Originally posted by Khaelyn
Bad kitty! Don't feed the troll!

/em tries to distract Kailea-D with a warm fluffy pillow and some chocolate.

;)

I assume troll extends to anyone who disagrees w/ popular opinion? ;)

[Injection]

Personally really like the keyboard setup. It was a little weird at first but hey... I can do everything with just my left hand on the numpad.

I do have to agree the logout is annoying but heres a tip.

TIP: After you logout your charater... just ctrl alt delete. It forces FFXI to go into windowed POL. After that just click the X on the POL window.

It tells you something is corrupt if you dont shutdown correctly? Did you ever click a IE window and X it? Did it ever mess up?

Do you really think square would make a product so unstable that it would corrupt on different forms of exit?

Do you really think your charater could be affected? After all your charater is saved on thier computers.

Yea its all just BS just click the X and be done with it.

Ive been doing this for 1 months already and nothing happened.

[Akirhol]

Being a player of Star Wars Galaxies for awhile now [and continuing to do so], the controls and interface of FFXI are absolutly horrid for being a computer game. That said, it really can't be considered a computer game in my mind since it's really just a decent port with no expanded control ability. Once I get a USB PS2 adapter, I'll be good to go for this game. Until then, I can't handle trying to use the keyboard... I'm just too used to what I can do otherwise.

Speaking of which, anyone know where I can find a control layout of a PS2 controller in FFXI, as in... what buttons do what?

EDIT: Also... the Alt-Tab thing... idiocy pure and simple... there is no justifiable reason to restrict Alt-Tabbing out of a game, cheats or not... it just makes people seek out ways around it, but such ways are not for discussion at these forums, soooooo I'll stop there. :angel:

[DJplaeskool]

Originally posted by Injection
Yea its all just BS just click the X and be done with it.

Ive been doing this for 1 months already and nothing happened.

It's not BS...
You are terminating a point to point session without initiating the end of the session by properly logging out.
When you simply kill the application, your session is left to time out on their servers, which:
A) Eats server resources
B) May allow extraneous/malicious data/users to infiltrate or corrupt your session information, which may have adverse reactions on your account
C) May be a security hazard

Granted, there is a next to impossible chance of that happening...but it is still in the realm of possibilty, so they make sure you are aware of the potential risk, however slim it may be...

[Injection]

Exactly, alot of programs whether it be windows media player or kazaa runs operations that could make your computer shutdown or freeze; but then again thats "next to impossible".

[Akirhol]

Originally posted by Injection
Exactly, alot of programs whether it be windows media player or kazaa runs operations that could make it shutdown or freeze the computer... but then again thats "next to impossible".
Run them on Windows ME and watch those next to impossible numbers climb to "you're kidding yourself if you think it won't happen"... hehe

[Injection]

Haha lets just hope the customers of FFXI dont run Win ME. I had to format my HD because of that piece of **** over 4 times.

[Thoronas]

The POL interface does need some serious stream-lining. It CAN be too annoying if you just want to jump on to check your Auction House or say hi to friends. You should be given the option to have quick log-in. But I think the interface was designed like this more for the PS2 then PC. I mean they are planning to make this a dedicated network for all their games from what it looks like.

[Lightningstorm]

You know how you exit the game (in a safe place)?

YOU CLICK ALT-TAB :biggrin:

[Tobold]

FFXI is the MMORPG with the best controls, you just need to use a gamepad with with 2 sticks, like the PS2 Dual Shock controller. Controlling the character movement, camera movement, menus, and macros all at the same time is a breeze, compared to the other games using keyboard and mouse. I never touch my mouse in game, and I use the keyboard only for chatting.

Logging in is cumbersome today, but there will be a patch to the PlayOnline Viewer tomorrow that promises "auto-login". I remember several games, including EQ, that didn't have auto-login in their first versions, but added it later.

[Kailea]

alt+rab exiting is a very unsafe and bad idea



........warm fluffy pillow and some chocolate, oooooo where ^.^

[Akirhol]

Originally posted by Kailea-D
alt+rab exiting is a very unsafe and bad idea



........warm fluffy pillow and some chocolate, oooooo where ^.^
Gotta go with her on this one, it leaves your session active and bad things can happen... as said in another thread, it's unlikely, but it's still a possibility. There's a reason they have "logout" and not "close game right now".

[Dreakon]

Originally posted by keflex


1.) Remember, EQ was not only released ~5 years ago, but was one of the first (and truly successful) MMORPGs. They had a lot to learn w/ no references that they could say, "Hey, this works and that doesn't." It was all trial-and-error.

FFXI, otoh, which was released a year ago, IIRC, has had plenty of predecessors to learn from.

2.) EQWindows is not necessary to enjoyment of the game. However, it is a very convenient and useful tool. Now, I didn't say that EQW is the only thing keeping EQ from having faster logout/login than FFXI, but if given the choice to use it or not, I would.

3.) Which they could easily add as a disclaimer in their EULA or TOS.

4.)
Originally posted by keflex

So far, I've played a couple MMORPGs (EverQuest and DAOC) and neither has had the ridiculously frustrating control layout/menu system as FFXI. In addition, neither has taken such a ridiculous time to exit the game (what genius at S-E decided to prevent cheating through the POL/Full-Screen method?).

Actually, I compared it to just the login/logout time of EQ.

1.) FFXI is completely different then those other MMORPG's. It has a PS2 counterpart that run off the same servers as the PC version. If they made the PC version more PC compatable and the PS2 version more PS2 compatable then they would probably have to run on different servers and everything. It's hard to explain but since they would be different it would be impossible to have the two different games running on the same servers since they would require different updates and such. Like I said the concept is hard to explain so I hope you understand a little.

2.) It's not nessesary but that program doesnt make EQ better then FFXI. That makes EQ+Third Party Program better then FFXI (in that area). The only way EQ could be better (in that area) then FFXI is SOE they somehow implemented it to the game themselves, then EQ would have the advantage.

3.) Did you read the EULA or TOS? Probably not. Did you read the disclaimer that said to not forget family and friends? Obviously, or else you wouldn't be saying anything about it.

4.) Sounds like you mentioned DAOC and EQ to me. Not just EQ.....

[Lightningstorm]

Originally posted by Akirhol

Gotta go with her on this one, it leaves your session active and bad things can happen... as said in another thread, it's unlikely, but it's still a possibility. There's a reason they have "logout" and not "close game right now".

Right, and in what way is it unsafe?

Your character remains in the world for 30 secs, then exits.
The reason they have logout, is that you would stay more in the game, and for you not to quit in a middle of a fight.

[Issaac]

Originally posted by Samsa
Logging out takes 5 minutes for no real reason; - arrow logout, yes, are you sure you want to log out? back back logout, yes, exit, are you sure you really really want to exit? YES I WANT TO EXIT 5 MINUTES AGO!



I realy had to laugh hard when i read this :biggrin: :biggrin:

I totaly agree and im thinking exaclty this everytime i log out ^^

[Mewnie]

Originally posted by Dreakon

...for idiots that commited suicide while playing their game (like too many EQ addicts).


Umm what? The only one who has done so and is even remotely 'connected' to EQ was that Shawn Wooley nutbar. And he was fucked in the head to begin with.

[Dreakon]

I could've sworn there were more, but it doesnt change the fact they used the warning to keep people from sueing them for similar incidents. (No matter how stupid and pointless the incident is)

[Tukka]

1.) FFXI is completely different then those other MMORPG's. It has a PS2 counterpart that run off the same servers as the PC version. If they made the PC version more PC compatable and the PS2 version more PS2 compatable then they would probably have to run on different servers and everything. It's hard to explain but since they would be different it would be impossible to have the two different games running on the same servers since they would require different updates and such. Like I said the concept is hard to explain so I hope you understand a little.
I'm not sure precisely what point you were replying to, but, you are right, though only to a certain extent... they could alter the PC client to operate in a manner which is more consistent with the more common PC input methods and what PC users have become most accustomed to.

As long as the communication protocals remain the same, there can be some pretty dramatic differences between different versions of client software, while remaining compatible with the same server. A lot of changes could be made to the user interface without changing the communication protocals at all.
2.) It's not nessesary but that program doesnt make EQ better then FFXI. That makes EQ+Third Party Program better then FFXI (in that area). The only way EQ could be better (in that area) then FFXI is SOE they somehow implemented it to the game themselves, then EQ would have the advantage.
Actually, SOE implemented a feature I think over a year ago that allows you to minimize EQ (or window it... I'm not sure which, maybe both). However, the feature doesn't work perfectly on all systems, so EQW is still used by many people.

So in this respect, EQ is better than FF11, but there EQ has room for improvement, also.

[Khaelyn]

Originally posted by Kailea-D
........warm fluffy pillow and some chocolate, oooooo where ^.^

Heh, sometime in mid-March, Windurst :) My moogle promises to have everything ready by then.

[Kailea]

^.^

[keflex]

Originally posted by Dreakon
1.) FFXI is completely different then those other MMORPG's. It has a PS2 counterpart that run off the same servers as the PC version. If they made the PC version more PC compatable and the PS2 version more PS2 compatable then they would probably have to run on different servers and everything. It's hard to explain but since they would be different it would be impossible to have the two different games running on the same servers since they would require different updates and such. Like I said the concept is hard to explain so I hope you understand a little.

As Takka mentioned, you can have both running fine as long as they use the same communication protocols (and, of course, the coding is the same). You wouldn't need a different system for each one.

2.) It's not nessesary but that program doesnt make EQ better then FFXI. That makes EQ+Third Party Program better then FFXI (in that area). The only way EQ could be better (in that area) then FFXI is SOE they somehow implemented it to the game themselves, then EQ would have the advantage.

Takka also mentioned this before I could: EQ does have a built-in windowing method. It's not as good as EQW (which is quite unfortunate), but useful enough if you don't like dealing w/ 3rd party apps.

3.) Did you read the EULA or TOS? Probably not. Did you read the disclaimer that said to not forget family and friends? Obviously, or else you wouldn't be saying anything about it.

Remember, by clicking ok whenever the EULA and TOS screens come up means that you are automatically agreeing that you have read and understood those service agreements. They don't need to show it prominently to have covered their own rears. Their culpability is limited by what their service agreements are, not what PSAs they make you look at.

4.) Sounds like you mentioned DAOC and EQ to me. Not just EQ.....

Sorry, I meant to compare the login/logout only to EQ, and the control layout to DAOC and EQ.

[keflex]

Originally posted by Akirhol

Gotta go with her on this one, it leaves your session active and bad things can happen... as said in another thread, it's unlikely, but it's still a possibility. There's a reason they have "logout" and not "close game right now".

Actually, the real reason this was implemented was to prevent exploiting.

Back in the old EQ days, players used to shutoff their computers or modems to "quick logout" their characters before a server save... this allowed them to fight tougher mobs w/ fewer repercussions since their character would instantly "disappear" from the server if the fight was going badly.

Another reason is that the 30 second logout time gives time for a server save, so that players can't cheat the auto-save system (imagine being able to spend all of your money right before a server save, leaving, then logging back in w/ all of your money again -- doesn't actually work, but you get the idea).

[Voyager]

Well, just on the subject of logging in, it currently takes me sixteen independent actions, from the time I decide to log on, until I am actually in game before I can play.

Of those, clicking the icon, selecting my account, loging into the account, activating the game, reading the patch notice, and selecting my character are essential.

Going through the message server is superfluous.
The three clicks spent getting through the initial opening sequences are superfluous (that is with intros turned off, too, it's four clicks with them turned on).
Binding my handle to my char every time I log on is superflous.

The two disclaimers are of dubious value.

The warning that my trial time is expiring was of value the first time they showed it. However, continuing to pop it up, even after investigating it several times, and verifying that my payments are indeed in order, is becoming excessing.

Overall, the best MMORPG log in sequence I've dealt with was for Eath and Beyond. Only about eight clicks are required to enter, and most of the loading section was confined to a contiguous time.

That being said, the protracted log in/log out process isn't that significant an issue for this type of game. One does not typically play an MMORPG for less than an hour at a stretch, and typically for several hours at a time. Having five minutes tacked onto the front and back end don't significantly alter the play time one gets out of a session, even though it can be an irritation.

Of a somewhat more problematic nature are the macros. Timed macros overwrite eachother when activated. As a Monk/War, War/Monk, I typically have at least two timed Job skills active at a time, and sometimes as many as five simultaneously active, and counting. Considering that I also have to keep track of, the target mob, possible linking mobs, the health status of the main tank, the health and mana status of the mages, my health, my TP, and any weapon chains people are starting, it gets kind of busy.

If I have to 'voke a mob, because the tank can't hold it right now, and then I have to use Dodge, to keep from taking to much damage, merely using my </ja "Dodge" Voyager> macro turns off the timer on my Provoke Macro. It won't give the ten second until next Provoke party alert, and it won't echo that my next Provoke is ready. I have to time it in my head, and the only warning my party gets that I've gotten it wrong is a string of "<Provoke>-><t>"'s without a provoke.

We could really use better ways for showing the time until next job skill use, and better ways of telling our party what we're at.

Harry Voyager