Dragoons got squarewed

[NewMorning]

Job is pretty cool overall... like the dragon,etc but square must hate dragons because the design makes it to kill the dragon.

most monsters you fight has area effects or some kind of poisons... and you can only call you dragon every 2 hours?? wtf??

whats the point of being a dragoon if you cant have your dragon because it dies all the time and there is nothing you can do about it.

what are you gonna do disengage from the battle and leave your party to rest so your dragon can heal up? if its poisoned its doomed you cant cure it.

sigh... imo dragoons really got the shaft.

[CoalChamber]

I know it sucks :0( I love DRG and this just kinda adds to it a bit. If you think about it, it is more fun, even though we all complain about it. Because it makes us know our limits and think more strategically then most other jobs. We actually have to make plans before hand on what we will hunt and stuff. Kinda fun.

[fuz]

There's a lot of posts here about feelings of inferiority. While many are exaggerated for just smack talk, it is unfortuantly partly true on most accounts.

Most of it just stems from the wyvern dying too fast. If they'd just make it heal-able, i'm pretty sure it would fix the class.

Well actually I'd to be able to equip some kind of ranged weapon. I mean, not even pebbles can be thrown. Even mages can use them. :confused: Makes it a little hard to pull stuff as jump doesn't have the range you want, and berserk just adds too much hate. I guess those elvaan that created the class in Vana'diel are so uppity about being a stand-up-front melee fighter that they snobbed off the idea of ranged attacks... :mad:

[NewMorning]

Most of it just stems from the wyvern dying too fast. If they'd just make it heal-able, i'm pretty sure it would fix the class.

I just dont get it.. even a beastmaster can heal his beast with pet food but a dragoon cant heal his precious dragon? im baffled.

not to mention it should not be a 2 hour ability... people can try and defend this but that was a mistake... the 2 hour ability should make the dragon stronger like the beastmasters 2hour makes his beast stronger... and "call wyvern" should be like a 2minute cooldown.

there should definitely be a way to cure your dragon... it is insane to have no cure... about choosing the monsters and being strategic... you cant really.. you get into a group and there is only a few mobs you can fight and fights last a long time... with no way to cure your dragon it is basically doomed right from the start.

now i know why most of the dragoons i partied with as a warrior never had their dragon because it was always dead thats why,

It would be awesome if dragoons could command their dragons more... you could tell it not to attack you could tell it to stay and not have it fight this battle because you know this monster has a mean area attack.. how about plants that cure poison that the dragon could eat... i mean how much time was put into the dragoon.. one lunchbreak of ideas?

[Potsnu]

This is "only" an issue during the low lvls. As you progress in the game, your Wyvern will live for a long time. In the event that your Wyvern does die, your 2hr will be up and ready to be used again. This is assuming you were competent enough to Pre-summon a Wyvern before you logged, and not using chocobo to your exp destination. With AF BP, your wyvern heals double its normal rate when you Heal and its Natural regen will outpace any AE that your wyvern will incur.

However, I do agree that Drg's suffer with AF's. Our AF is a complete joke to get, but for the most part, nearly all pieces are useless and situational. There is NO other job in this game that has their AF dependent on their 2hr. What happens when your wyvern does die? 4 of the 5 pieces are completely useless.

[Weezingpipes]

I've seen the downside to lack of foresight in other games, and this is what I see Dragoon as. Truth be told, because of the wyvern at low levels it does make Dragoons fairly powerful then. Of course as monster power increases with player power, wyvern power stays relatively low, which translates into poor accuracy, damage output, and low survivability. The fact that breath attacks are random is pretty dumb when most of the time the wyvern uses the breath the monster is strongest against. Also AF armor, while it does improve the wyvern, it has 2 problems. 1) Dependance on the armor for your wyvern to be "ok" which creates itemization issues ie how do you improve on equipment with staple effects 2) it doesn't increase wyvern power substantially enough...but I suppose considering these 2, I don't really value my AF much anymore really. I can see items I would upgrade to easily if I could afford them, simply because the stats of AF armor aren't overly beneficial to the Dragoons' fighting ability. About the only piece I found which doesn't have a great comparison is the boots due to the increased jump damage, but considering that additional damage is INCREDIBLY random and due to the generally poor accuracy of jumps, I'd take anything with better stats to be honest.

What I saw is when they added the expansion, they added new jobs, gave em some neato abilities and just said go. I have to wonder if Ninja was intended to use gil as a method of tanking really, if that was the vision of the designers. Its just not Ninja like, but I guess Ninja have their own niche in the FF world. Dragoon get the wyvern which is fine and dandy, and useful melee utility such as high jump and super jump which remain consistantly useful, but the poor accuracy of jump and high jump makes their damage contribution mostly negligable, if anything jump is a way of occasionally get a free bit of TP. Samurai seems to be the only expansion job which is pretty ok across the board. Their lack of melee power is made up for in skillchain versatility and ability to start skillchains without delay if played properly. I know they have some problems (accuracy of Great Katanas seems mentioned a lot) but I haven't played a high level samurai to really know the problems. The lack of overall abilities/traits is a downside of course.

But back to the topic, Dragoons probably looked great on paper, just not so much in practice. Far too many penalties to be a 3rd rate damage dealer with terrible skillchain versatility. I think there is hope however, as with most games of this type there is almost always a weak job/class which will get tuned eventually so I expect when the disparity of the job is noticed by the developers, they may be improved upon. My own thoughts on how to improve Dragoons :

1) Make jumps 100% accurate. Given their low damage, there is no reason for them to have around a 40% miss rate and deal roughly the damage of a standard melee hit.

2) Improve lances SLIGHTLY. They are still worse than Scythes or Great Axes, basically on par with Great Swords which isn't so hot for a job overly dependant on 1 weapon type period.

3) Give wyvern the resists of the player - this was used in EQ for the Magician class in order to improve the survivability of their pets. I think this could help the wyverns survivability slightly, at least enough so they don't die after 2-4 fights. It is mostly worthless fighting 80% of monsters and all..

4) Give wyverns auto 3 hp regen at level 50, 4 at 60, 5 at 70. The bp isn't enough, period. Alternatively, let players be able to cast cure spells on wyverns, this would solve so many problems.

5) Remove wyvern as a 2 hour ability and make it 30 minute cycle time, or maybe slightly longer. I do think players should have to play sort of well with their wyverns in order to reap the benefits of them, but 2 hours is a bit excessive. Players should be expected to know how to position their wyverns from breath attacks which is reasonable. However, there isn't much you can do about Bubble Showers, Bombs, etc which take down a wyvern pretty fast. Replace it with a good 2 hour - whatever really, something that can be used situationally as a way of short duration burst damage. Doesn't have to be anything amazing or anything, just something that is situationally useful.

6) Make staves a more viable weapon, perhaps a A- ranking instead of B-. This is one large penalty Dragoons have is being only really good at 1 weapon, which translates into terrible skillchain versatility. Considering Staves have decent versatility in skillchains (basically they can compensate the chains Polearms simply cannot do) they should be a viable alternative. Also the damage penalty on Polearms vs undead is super harsh, drops you from being a 3rd rate damage dealer to dealing worse than Paladin damage vs undead. Its just dumb. By having a better ranking, staves could be used for more than just undead. Of course Staves in general aren't overly damaging so I'm unsure how a change like this would help much if staves weren't made better. If I recall the level 75 Staff is 57 damage - thats pathetic for a 2 hander considering its only slightly slower than the standard spear delay and standard spears are tons better by that level. It is kind of interesting, Dragoons are similar to rangers in their skillchain weakness and only being proficient with 1 weapon type, just a good Ranger surpasses Dragoon damage output by a massive margin - they aren't exactly paying much for their incredible damage output. While I think Rangers are perfectly balanced in their damage output considering no defensive ability to speak of, only good with bows/marksmanship, and high quality ammunition is very costly which otherwise their damage is nothing amazing without it, it doesn't strike me as fair Dragoons have very similar penalties with not even close to the output (not that expecting Dragoons to be as close to as damaging as rangers is reasonable either).

7) In the end, Dragoons should be outdamaging Dark Knights really. Dark Knights don't pay hardly any penalties, are proficient with a few different weapons which means good skillchain versatility, have good utility spells and a good spell line up in general, and have access to much better defensive equipment. While I'll grant you Dark Knights have no natural hate mitigation ability to speak of, there are ways to counter this without sacrificing much in terms of damage output, and a well played Dark Knight WILL outclass a Dragoon significantly. Given our lack of utility and weapon versatility, this is also fairly unbalanced. Even if you fight things that don't kill your wyvern fast with AE's, a good Dark Knight is still more damaging. Simply put the best played Dragoon won't touch the best played Dark Knight in damage output. I used to believe the hate removal of a Dragoon would make the difference on the whole, but it honestly doesn't if your tank is good enough.

I don't think Dragoons should be the absolute top damage dealer possible to be honest, but honestly in most parties I'm in, I find myself wishing I was a Dark Knight or even a Monk if only to add more. And to those who might say "well hell just play something else", I do enjoy the job. I do enjoy the style of play and I don't mind large penalties to a job, as long as they add something in their own right. I also think just resigning to playing another job doesn't send a message that there is a problem - it just allows the problem to perpetuate itself and be ignored.

[Weezingpipes]

This is "only" an issue during the low lvls. As you progress in the game, your Wyvern will live for a long time. In the event that your Wyvern does die, your 2hr will be up and ready to be used again. This is assuming you were competent enough to Pre-summon a Wyvern before you logged, and not using chocobo to your exp destination. With AF BP, your wyvern heals double its normal rate when you Heal and its Natural regen will outpace any AE that your wyvern will incur.

Untrue, sorry but it is. If anything wyvern survivability is a lot better at low levels than higher levels - they can actually take a round of combat and not lose half their hp basically. In addition most AE effects are pretty weak, and few monsters AE in comparison to high levels. Given the wyvern breath damage is tied to how high its HP is, as you get high levels, that matters a lot more in terms of how much a breath attack does. The AF bp also does not double the rate at which it regens, it basically gives it the effect of having the spell Regen on it, which means you don't need to heal to restore hp. Base regeneration is still the same, just gets the extra hp as though it had regen spell on it. By the time you get around leel 40 you learn what monsters aren't worth having a wyvern up for. Pre summoning it is pointless because it seriously will die within 2-4 fights at higher levels. Finally if you are healing it via healing yourself, you are only gimping yourself as a melee by depleting your tp, and considering it takes around 5 minutes for my wyvern to go from 20% hp to 100%, that isn't viable to an exp party.

[Potsnu]

I don't think ANY of the expansion classes were thoroughly thought out. Just be fortunate we're not nearly as bad as Sam's and Nin's.

[Klumps]

If I were playing DRG, I would cry in the group I was in tonight. Gustav tunnel - Goblins and flies were our targets...both of which tend to AE several times a fight (well, not the goblins so much once we got our stuns / foe lullabies / weapon bash / shield bash down). Our highest damage AE we took was where we made the goblin drop the bomb on his very first WS...381 damage. Wouldn't that essentially one-hit the wyvern? I mean, seriously, how is that poor thing supposed to survive?

[Sanguine]

You shouldn't be complaining about our AF. Go have a look at Bard's AF and see how god damn awful theirs is.

I agree on the Jumps however. The primary source of a DRG's damage should be the jumps, not just as an added TP source because that's not what this job *should* theoretically be about.

Masters of AIR. How much of my time do I spend in the air and doing damage from the air? About 0.01%. At lower levels, jumps were actually significant in their damage output. Too bad it didn't scale exponentially with the amount of HP a mob has nor did the hit rate improve. What a joke.

In regards to wyvern breath, even with AF3 helm, the breath attack can be partially resisted. Many times I have had it do only 80 damage out of 160 with max HP. Staple damage? I think not.

Here's what I propose with Jump and High Jump:
1.) Make Jump take 5 seconds to land from the time the Jump was initiated. Give Jump the modifier of a Sneak Attack that a Thief would have (slightly adjusted in line with Lance damage) and allow it to hit 100% of the time just like Sneak Attack. Also give it the same amount of hate that a Sneak Attack would normally generate. While in the air you are invulnerable to all attacks. Also give a set amount of TP back from this, such as 20% TP or 25% TP.

2.) Make High Jump the same except that it takes 10 seconds to land from the time it was initiated. Damage would be less than that of a Jump and perhaps would have some special random property such as Lower Defense or Blindness. Leave the partial hate removal as it is.

3.) Super Jump should take you away from battle for longer than it does now, probably about 5-10 seconds. It should not do any damage.

So you say, since you're in the air so much, you're not going to be able to get much TP at all. Well, to give added value to your wyvern, every hit the wyvern gets should be added your TP around the same amount as a dagger hit. Of course, such heavy reliance on your wyvern could mean trouble if it happens to fall. As with many other posters, I think it would be beneficial to allow Call Wyvern to be an ability rather than a 2 hour ability. And for the 2 hour ability, I don't think that making the wyvern super buffed up for 30 seconds would be too imbalancing. Insert any fancy graphic changes and also an astral flow type power attack and it will be extremely favorable.

So what would this all mean? You'd be a burst damage dealer. Half the fight you'll be in the air, but when you land, you'll have enough TP to throw out a Penta, Renkei or whatever but your primary source of damage would be your Jump.

Not sure just how well this could work out but it would rework the whole of the Dragoon fight system from "Pleh another Melee" to something unique.

[Carbon]

I see nothing wrong with the wyvern.

So far I've only had real problems with two mob types as far as keeping the wyvern alive is concerned: goblin (bombs) and undead (black cloud).

I agree it sucks how dragoon damage output gets reduced to that of a paladin, if not worse, against skeletons. Especially since I keep hearing undead are the prime leveling mob at 65+.

I also agree with the jumps. The normal jump is pretty much just an extra attack, and while the high jump is useful for shedding hate, I kinda wish either of them was more "unique".

After all, AFAIK, jumps (not the wyvern) is the signature move of dragoons in past FFs.

[fuz]

imo i think the expansion jobs are all fine, except dragoon.

Samurai is just another decent meleer, who is mostly meant to be subbed when damage is a top priority at high levels. Still can be a force all its own as a main class.

Ninja seems wierd to a lot of people, but really, there is an excess of damage dealing classes already so s-e probably looked at ninja to see what else they could do with it. Now instead of being the dual wielding assasins of death, they are basically a replacement tank and part rdm for those that have the gil to be one. (Keep in mind these jobs are for the people that have been playing already for more than a year) Makes a great sub for thf and ranger.

Summoner is the epitome of 'already got a high-lvl job and lots of time to do whatever' class. While weak in damage output, they are very useful as support, once again as a subjob, but get plenty of extras to be useful as main--particuarly with the natural aoe spells that avatars cast.

Dragoon is the odd lot. Most likely in-game for just the nostalgia of previous FFs. Unlike the other jobs, drg is extremely inflexible. Worthess as a sub, and even as main it is very limited. I don't see why some of you say that it should be better class than drk though. Game balance is a tricky issue that way. What i think needs to happen is that dragoon must be made to be more adaptable.

All classes have their focus with strengths and weaknesses. It's just that the focus for drg is very small--sort of the way that there are only a small number of thier chosen prey, dragons, that exist in-game.

[NewMorning]

I think there is hope however, as with most games of this type there is almost always a weak job/class which will get tuned eventually so I expect when the disparity of the job is noticed by the developers, they may be improved upon. My own thoughts on how to improve Dragoons

One can only hope.

[Shuketsu]

I'm experiencing the same feelings myself.. Dragoon pretty much at the bottom of the melee bin now. Let's take a look at what 99.9% of your renkeis will be... Double>Viper then Skewer>Dancing. Dragoons are like counterparts to thieves, you will almost never have a different (good) PT until the later levels... you know how boring it gets being fuidama'ed from 30 onwards?

Not to mention, WS damage is pretty much crap. Penta thrust rarely breaks the high 300s, Skewer is pretty much the same, Wheeling Thrust is what, 200 damage? And then Impulse Drive, the uber leet awesome final WS does 400-500. A dark knight can come along and bust up any of those damages with Guillo, Cross Reaper, Spin slash, and Spiral hell. Samurai do about the same as a drg, maybe a little less in the WS compartment, but they can fill a gap in pretty much every renkei.

I really love the Dragoon class, but it sucks being so gimped in comparison to what's already out there. Will I level through 71 at least and get impulse? Most likely. But after that.. I'll probably go do Sam quests and Dragoon quests, since that's about the extent of my usefulness right now.

[Potsnu]

Finally if you are healing it via healing yourself, you are only gimping yourself as a melee by depleting your tp, and considering it takes around 5 minutes for my wyvern to go from 20% hp to 100%, that isn't viable to an exp party.

If I am fighting AE mobs, I will need to heal my pet to full Once every hour or so. I don't see how that "gimps" myself as a melee by spending 5 mins every hour. Most PT are fine with the fact you heal your wyvern especially after an exp chain #5 and MP is low. And yes my wyvern lives hell of a lot more time than lower lvls. My wyvern rarely dies except for AF3's and HNM.

imo i think the expansion jobs are all fine, except dragoon. Samurai is just another decent meleer, who is mostly meant to be subbed when damage is a top priority at high levels. Still can be a force all its own as a main class.


Do you even have a job higher than Lvl 30? Please, no one in their right mind would choose a Samurai. They are completely useless in the high end. The worst expansion class by far. Lack of melee passive abilities, and a plethora of other jobs can do it better. A drg, drk, mnk, thf, etc. will be chosen over a Sam any time. They also lack a viable multi hit WS that many other the jobs listed above have. And please....don't even say Penta Thrust, no Sam in their right mind will continue to use a Spear 60+ since the polearms they do have access to are utter garbage and have a low base dmg.

Ninja seems wierd to a lot of people, but really, there is an excess of damage dealing classes already so s-e probably looked at ninja to see what else they could do with it. Now instead of being the dual wielding assasins of death, they are basically a replacement tank and part rdm for those that have the gil to be one.

Again, useless in the high end. I have group exclusively with friends that came into this game as a Ninja so I know exactly how they fair. Ninjas will not be able to hold agro w/o a Thf in the high end, where as Pld can still hold their own. Ninjas "fan" the mob up until lvl 50 when they actually do some "decent" dmg to the mob and able to hold "some" agro. This is also assuming they're rich enough and constantly stacking hate with Debuffs. Even than, the other melees have to play "conservative" just to have the mob stay on the Nin.

My biggest concern for Drg in the high end is mainly Undead. Viable exp spots pushing 4-5k exp an hour is very limited, especially 70+ This is where it becomes very slim for us Drg's. We'll be fighting a lot of Undead, were we will be doing very crap damage. At this point, Mnks are the power dmg dealing class. With Asuran fist, and their dmg output with Undead, I don't see Drg getting too many PT's unless they make their own.

[NewMorning]

I will need to heal my pet to full Once every hour or so

I don't believe that...

once every hour? cmon now... i assume your high level from the tone of your post and you cant tell me those high level mobs dont have insane area attacks.. i cant see resting once every hour as being truth.

but of course i never been really high so maybe your dragon becoms extremely strong and can take tons of damage.. but judging from early experiences i cant imagine that being the case.

[Weezingpipes]

Do you even have a job higher than Lvl 30? Please, no one in their right mind would choose a Samurai. They are completely useless in the high end. The worst expansion class by far. Lack of melee passive abilities, and a plethora of other jobs can do it better. A drg, drk, mnk, thf, etc. will be chosen over a Sam any time. They also lack a viable multi hit WS that many other the jobs listed above have. And please....don't even say Penta Thrust, no Sam in their right mind will continue to use a Spear 60+ since the polearms they do have access to are utter garbage and have a low base dmg.

Actually I'd replace myself in many parties with a Samurai, simply for more skillchains. Even if the Samurai and whoever can only do 1 skillchain, a good Samurai can generate their own skillchain for a needed burst if necessary - the WS are generally versatile enough to create a needed chain. Stupid people pick certain other jobs over Samurai, a well played samurai (ie not a Penta spamming dipshit) is great for a party. Also about multiple hit WS..do you know multi hit WS charges monsters TP faster for special abilities? This was glaringly obvious when I was doing Garlaige Weapons for Coffer keys for some friends, and I was doing Penta Thrust -> Vorpal Scythe with the DRK. Given the lack of a BLM, this wasn't entirely the best, but Penta Thrust did decent damage because they were only VT (usually around 300-500). More to the point, every time I did Penta Thrust the weapons did Whirl of Rage or Smite of Rage, more often whirl than Smite. What this resulted in is the DRK being unable to Vorpal and do a chain with me because he would be stunned within a second or so of me Penta Thrusting, and we didn't have room to run out away from the stun (even if we did, still a missed chain), and in the cases it did Smite, it just did more damage to the PLD causing a greater need for heals. Basically it resulted in more damage to the party (at least 2-3 more specials per fight than usual). Same thing happened when I was killing wasps in Ifrit's for a coffer key - almost every time I Penta Thrusted, the wasp did its self heal ability. There is no way its unrelated to my volume of hits causing this when it happens constantly. Multiple hit WS's DO have a downside. I'd honestly prefer more Double Thrust clones that had better damage output 9/10 times over Penta Thrust or any high volume multi hit WS. The fact Samurai lacks multi hit WS is hardly a downside. Also for the uninformed, in the case of Penta Thrust, the damage per hit is generally lower than a standard melee swing (guesstimate around 80% of a standard swing), which makes many misses all the more penalizing.



If I am fighting AE mobs, I will need to heal my pet to full Once every hour or so. I don't see how that "gimps" myself as a melee by spending 5 mins every hour. Most PT are fine with the fact you heal your wyvern especially after an exp chain #5 and MP is low. And yes my wyvern lives hell of a lot more time than lower lvls. My wyvern rarely dies except for AF3's and HNM.

Sorry, wrong. I summoned my wyvern in Boyahda fighting Robber crabs just to see if they could live long at all. The crabs AE Bubble shower is probably one of the weakest AE attacks any monster has. It died 3 fights later, 8 total bubble showers. Maybe you're just fighting high level beetles or something (not that I've seen any since CN) because those rule for having a wyvern, even if their damage is still unimpressive. Even if you heal your wyvern for 5 minutes, thats a big time hose. Most parties I've been in never get close to that amount of downtime, and considering wyvern melee damage output isn't much, the only viable bonus is wyvern breaths, which do a lot less damage when they aren't full hp.

I kind of like Sanguine's idea of making Jumps more so a fighting style than an extra attack similar to the old FF games, but I think jumps as they are now are functional and don't necessarily need changes beyond better accuracy and maybe the AF boots providing a more consistant damage output boost. I do see the wyvern as a gimmick, but if they are going to give us a gimmick, at least make it good. I would just rather Dragoons were just better melee fighters, but that is my opinion, being a burst damage fighter is sort of what Thief is now, consistant output should matter but I suppose with proper tunings, this could make a Dragoon viable in a different way. Also I agree at higher levels if undead is the primary thing you fight, Dragoons are hugely penalized using spears, and staves aren't a viable enough weapon to use to compensate this because of lower skill and poor itemization, and generally weak WS (not entirely a bad thing, but not like any polearm WS are overly great either). Better staves and skill at them would go a long way to not being complete crap vs monsters which are strong against polearms.

[fuz]

Originally posted by Potsnu
Do you even have a job higher than Lvl 30? Please, no one in their right mind would choose a Samurai. They are completely useless in the high end. The worst expansion class by far. Lack of melee passive abilities, and a plethora of other jobs can do it better. A drg, drk, mnk, thf, etc. will be chosen over a Sam any time. They also lack a viable multi hit WS that many other the jobs listed above have. And please....don't even say Penta Thrust, no Sam in their right mind will continue to use a Spear 60+ since the polearms they do have access to are utter garbage and have a low base dmg.

Yep, I have almost half the jobs in the game over lvl 30, with my drk finishing genkai quest over 2 weeks ago. :p I never said samurai was to be used high end, i said it was meant to BE SUBBED at high end for damage. Read it again. And maybe you haven't realized, but samurai's usefulness stems from creating lots of skillchains to MB on, and not by creating lots of damage by himself. Meele is mage support, not the other way around. Melee's usefullness is to contribute to the damage dealing as a whole and it is stupid to look at a class purely by itself. In this regard, sam is very well paired with a blm--any damage the sam lacks can be made up for the sheer number MBs that can be achived per battle. Since sam has some very chainable skills with his weapons, he can still be useful later on in the game. While there are better classes for the same purpose, I would hardly say sam is useless, again--it makes a good sub in certain situations which is it's primary usefulness as I said to begin with.

Again, useless in the high end. I have group exclusively with friends that came into this game as a Ninja so I know exactly how they fair. Ninjas will not be able to hold agro w/o a Thf in the high end, where as Pld can still hold their own. Ninjas "fan" the mob up until lvl 50 when they actually do some "decent" dmg to the mob and able to hold "some" agro. This is also assuming they're rich enough and constantly stacking hate with Debuffs. Even than, the other melees have to play "conservative" just to have the mob stay on the Nin.

Once again, I never said anything about high level use. (You're just looking for anything--even if it's a stretch to argue on to make yourself look good :p) Nin is a very heal efficient tank at lower levels. Obviously they can't hold hate as much of the time with only provoke and ninjitsu, which is why I don't PT with them anymore at my drk's lvl where loss of aggro means lots of damage taken. But they do make a good sub, adding many abilities and good stat bonuses for thief and ranger. Subbed at lvl 75, you obtain both shihei abilities, and the full range of elemental weakening abilites and more, all which require no mp which is nice for long fights, or just a constant string of exp fighting. Double attack, paired with thief's tripple attack just spams eveyrone's chat window. On the other hand, using a ninja to lvl 75 is hardly recomended since their lack of job focus hurts PTs where everyone is given a specific job.

My biggest concern for Drg in the high end is mainly Undead. Viable exp spots pushing 4-5k exp an hour is very limited, especially 70+ This is where it becomes very slim for us Drg's. We'll be fighting a lot of Undead, were we will be doing very crap damage. At this point, Mnks are the power dmg dealing class. With Asuran fist, and their dmg output with Undead, I don't see Drg getting too many PT's unless they make their own.

Dragoon is the odd lot--not at all useful subbed, and even as main, nothing spectacular with absolutly no reason to choose a drg over another class. Drk with it's good base dmg output, lots of magic, and many sub possibilities make it an unusually flexible class. Samurai is the opposite, intensely focused on using WS and making chains, it is quite good at doing it. Monk is good at low levels, lacking in mid-levels, and from what I hear, totatly owns at high levels. Though not given much to work with, the things that a monk has are very useful. Ranger quite frankly smacks them all around in damage output. This is because rangers are there less to support a blm, rather than as a replacement for one. There are a good number of them at the high end of the game too...

I think my friend said it best when he joked that dragoons are excellent damage dealers that do lots of damage to low level mobs. :thumbsup:

[sonova]

you knew the drawbacks before you did the quest

and yet you still chose to be a dragoon.

so cry me a river.....

[NewMorning]

Uhhhh no i didnt ass....

how do you know what i knew?

[sonova]

cause theres only like 10 million posts on the topic?

even if you didnt know it would only take you like 5 minutes playing the class to figure out that

1) the wyvern is fragile
2) you cannot heal it
3) that sucks?

and yet you still took the time to lvl to 11?

anyway what the fuck are you crying about you re only lvl 11
what about us chumps who have gone 50 or even 60+ =P

[Dredge]

If DRGs are so underpowered then why do they even get picked in a PT when there are usually at least twice as many DRKs of the same level that are also seeking? The answer is that they aren't underpowered.

"I wanna be able to do Sneak Attack like a THF and I want my jumps to be way more powerful than they already are and I want my Wyvern to be invincible and I want to be able to participate in every possible skillchain and..."

Stop whining. I hope this game doesn't turn into EQ where Square constantly has to bring out the nerf bat because one class gets virtual penis envy and whines about being under-powered when they are, in fact, not.

[NewMorning]

even if you didnt know it would only take you like 5 minutes playing the class to figure out that

You sure don't know what you are talking about... the first 10 levels of dragoon is awesome.. because these levels you solo.

you pick the mobs you fight carefully from a bunch of different mobs and you rest as much as you want... this is a far different way of playing the game and experience then partying.

i know dragoons from a third person point of view from partying with a bunch of them... but i never experienced it from my own eyes.

[sonova]

You sure don't know what you are talking about... the first 10 levels of dragoon is awesome.. because these levels you solo.

you pick the mobs you fight carefully from a bunch of different mobs and you rest as much as you want... this is a far different way of playing the game and experience then partying.

i know dragoons from a third person point of view from partying with a bunch of them... but i never experienced it from my own eyes.

hi i was refering to the wyvern.

I have no idea what sort of point you are trying to make. From 1-10 just about any class can be awesome with the right gear and knowledge. Also basicly from lvl 1 - 11 you just smacked easy mobs that do not have any bearing on the end game at all. AND you admit that your knowledge is limited. AND DRG is not your highest job atm? GG

so heres my question to you. Why did you feel like it was your civic duty to beat a dead horse? cause really anyone who has a clue already knows all of this shit so you arent really bringing up anything new.

Also you do realize that its highly unlikely that they are going to change the class all that much in the near future and even if they did it is unlikely that you are the one who will be cause of such an action,

the "OMG DRGS IS TEH SUX?!~" topics have been done to death in previous discussions and its not like this forum purges old posts or that theres any form of restriction on the information.

so really, if you ever were serious about making DRG your main class you would have come to these forums and gotten at least some feel for what the class is going to be like at the end. Or were you just one of the many many sheep who thought that having a dragon as a pet was the way to cheap thrills and victory?

well consider yourself enlightened then.

kk thx drive thru...


PS translation for the lamer who complained about my grammar and took the time to make a new account just to flame me:

GRATS NUBI FOR BRINGING UP A TOPIC THAT WAS OLD 3 MONTHS AGO LOLZ!

[elias]

I'm not really sure about this, but i thought i heard someone mention being able to heal ur dragon in a fight. All you needed to do was go into engage, and then, when ur weapon is out, type /heal, and only ur dragon will heal. I am not sure if this is right because i don't have the drg class unlocked.

[Ayako2]

Well, since I lost my cookie, and this POS forums' password retrieval doesn't like to send emails, we revert to this account for now.

Every job is what you make of it. The "renkei versatility" thing someone mentioned earlier is total BS. Spear WS can finish kakunetsu, Penta can finish the lvl 2 dark, Double/Skewer can start incurve, Daisharin is light, Impulse is dark. What other renkeis do your parties use? If it's any other, your party is shit to begin with.
I can make a renkei with any job i party with, be it DRK, PLD, MNK, THF. or WAR. Dai > Spin or Impulse > Cross/Spiral are the ones of choice, anyway.

Does DRG get shafted? Hell yes. Wyverns have low HP and can't be cured. We get the worst equipment, including cursed equipment (why the fuck do we need all that MP?) Our high end weapons come from difficult NMs that pop sparingly, and of course our intrinsic abilities don't come to use until ridiculously high levels. (great, ancient circle vs. an HNM for one minute, hey it might work once! of course we shouldnt be in the PT with the tank, so it won't work anyway). The bones thing is a big problem. I went to Ranperres' the other night and did 5 damage without food eaten. It's ridiculous. I would have just used a sword if I didn't need to start the renkei. There are alternative leveling spots, but no one will really want to go there. 73+ is gonna be Ro Maeve, and all weapons, so no wyvern there^^;

Ninja tanks rock if they know how to keep hate.
Samurai......sucks unless they sub RNG and have good accuracy with bows.
Dragoon...look like a mecha batman.

Every job is flawed except Bard. Just a matter of whether you enjoy playing it.

[NewMorning]

so heres my question to you. Why did you feel like it was your civic duty to beat a dead horse? cause really anyone who has a clue already knows all of this shit so you arent really bringing up anything new.

Maybe because this is a forum... and forums are generally where people come to express their feelings and thoughts with likemined people.

the "OMG DRGS IS TEH SUX?!~" topics have been done to death in previous discussions and its not like this forum purges old posts or that theres any form of restriction on the information.

I didn't say "dragoons sucked" if you read my first post i said "i like dragoons overall the job,etc" i just feel that it was made so the dragon dies.. and i have not seen many posts talking about this.. sorry if you seem to already know this... question is if you already know all of this and read it all the time why even take the time to post in this topic... you could read the topic and know what it was about "dragoons got squarewed" what did you think was going to be in this post? why not just ignore it.

[Potsnu]

Sorry, wrong. I summoned my wyvern in Boyahda fighting Robber crabs just to see if they could live long at all. The crabs AE Bubble shower is probably one of the weakest AE attacks any monster has. It died 3 fights later, 8 total bubble showers. Maybe you're just fighting high level beetles or something

Sorry, you are wrong. I was still in Boyahda when I got my BP before heading to Cape Terrigan and still fighting crabs. My BP's regen outpaces the Crabs AE dmg. Do you even have a BP yet? How do you know I'm wrong? Yes at Cape Terrigan, doing #5 chains on Crabs, required me to heal roughly Once every hour to full health. This takes roughly 5 mins. The crabs died so fast it does AE once every fight or so. Half the time its using Defensive skills instead, such as Metallic Body and Scissor Guard. And no, 5 mins is not a long time, nor does it mean i'm in a crappy group. Its called chaining a IT+++ to finish the exp chain, resting, and repeating again. This is what you call making good exp....and making use of exp chains. I dont know any groups that dont have downtime after chaining a mob for 260 exp.

Also about multiple hit WS..do you know multi hit WS charges monsters TP faster for special abilities?

Ummm yes I am well aware of this, this is why we don't use even Skewer on HNM's. However, when you're farming BCNM60 for cash, Multi WS are kinda nice to have? On most exp mobs, using multi hits are fine. Its called finding out what WS the mobs use, and adjusting playstyle accordingly. For instance, when fighting Spiders, you dont want multi hit due to Sickle Slash or Peryton b/c of Triple Attack. On the other hand, when fighting Toramas, Crabs, Raptors, Crawlers its absolutely fine to use Multi Hits?

And maybe you haven't realized, but samurai's usefulness stems from creating lots of skillchains to MB on, and not by creating lots of damage by himself.

Maybe this is so in the early parts of the game. This is only true for Lvl 1 WS.....anyone that has seen the high end knows that the REAL source of dmg 65+ is through Lvl 3 Renkeis. Who cares if Sam can make a plethora of useless and obsolete Lvl 1 WS. The game changes yet again from 65+ (Weapon A rating). In fact, the actual elemental dmg does 3-4 times more than the actual WS you'll be doing in the high end. Yes Sam's are versatile, verastile at making soon to be obsolete Renkeis. All it takes is 1 Lv3 Renkei to kill a mob from Full to 0. I kid you not, and by no means am I exaggerating. For those that still doubt me, read what Ayako said. Perhaps the only poster in this thread that has a clue what's going on. Drg's biggest problem is fighting Undead, when it becomes the only viable and worthwhile exp 73+. This is a huge hit, considering our lack of choice in weapons. Fortunately for me, I have no desire to take Drg 70+ due the horrific exp grind. So I can go back to Boyahda and hit 70 there instead, and not deal with the Undead BS.

Nin is a very heal efficient tank at lower levels.
Sadly, this could be said for nearly every single melee. Classes don't branch out till about Lvl 30. Even Drg's can tank up till than and still be heal efficient at lower lvls.

Double attack, paired with thief's tripple attack just spams eveyrone's chat window.

You're right about 1 thing. It spams everyone's chat window with misses. Granted, a Rich Ninja can tank and hold reasonable agro. Sadly, I don't get the chance to group with Rank9 ninjas with Ochude Kote's too often ; ; I know you weren't talking about High lvl use, but what's the point of discussing anything if you don't? Every single melee are more or less the same at the low end of the game. Of course things seem "balanced". You have to look at things from the high end, when classes actually start becoming different....

[Weezingpipes]

So basically at 65 DRG start getting bearable? Good to know. Because prior to that DRG are fairly sad, just how it is. Maybe you people don't remember when Penta Thrust was doing pathetic damage to IT's while everyone outclasses you in single and double hit WS, or when you don't have that option of level 3 renkais, only the lesser shit, and DRG is crap at that so yea, until you get those WS, it does matter.

And yea, I have the AF bp. Mighty unimpressive. At least it was easy to get and let me sell crap.

[Ayako2]

Originally posted by Potsnu


For instance, when fighting Spiders, you dont want multi hit due to Sickle Slash or Peryton b/c of Triple Attack. On the other hand, when fighting Toramas, Crabs, Raptors, Crawlers its absolutely fine to use Multi Hits?


Sickle Slash (if for some reason you decide to level off spiders) is a counter, not a WS, so using Penta won't charge it, just an FYI. Basically it can come out at any time (usually the wrong one, I've been on shotted enough)

[Saedius]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
7) In the end, Dragoons should be outdamaging Dark Knights really. Dark Knights don't pay hardly any penalties, are proficient with a few different weapons which means good skillchain versatility, have good utility spells and a good spell line up in general, and have access to much better defensive equipment. While I'll grant you Dark Knights have no natural hate mitigation ability to speak of, there are ways to counter this without sacrificing much in terms of damage output, and a well played Dark Knight WILL outclass a Dragoon significantly. Given our lack of utility and weapon versatility, this is also fairly unbalanced. Even if you fight things that don't kill your wyvern fast with AE's, a good Dark Knight is still more damaging. Simply put the best played Dragoon won't touch the best played Dark Knight in damage output. I used to believe the hate removal of a Dragoon would make the difference on the whole, but it honestly doesn't if your tank is good enough.
[/B]

[Saedius]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
7) In the end, Dragoons should be outdamaging Dark Knights really. Dark Knights don't pay hardly any penalties, are proficient with a few different weapons which means good skillchain versatility, have good utility spells and a good spell line up in general, and have access to much better defensive equipment. While I'll grant you Dark Knights have no natural hate mitigation ability to speak of, there are ways to counter this without sacrificing much in terms of damage output, and a well played Dark Knight WILL outclass a Dragoon significantly. Given our lack of utility and weapon versatility, this is also fairly unbalanced. Even if you fight things that don't kill your wyvern fast with AE's, a good Dark Knight is still more damaging. Simply put the best played Dragoon won't touch the best played Dark Knight in damage output. I used to believe the hate removal of a Dragoon would make the difference on the whole, but it honestly doesn't if your tank is good enough.
[/B]

You have lost your damned mind... no penalty?!?!?!? 10% of HP per successful hit (Soul Eater). Friggin provoke like action attached to both Soul Eater AND Last Resort and the highest miss rate in the game.

[JexIntrepid]

Originally posted by Ayako2
Well, since I lost my cookie, and this POS forums' password retrieval doesn't like to send emails, we revert to this account for now.

Every job is what you make of it. The "renkei versatility" thing someone mentioned earlier is total BS. Spear WS can finish kakunetsu, Penta can finish the lvl 2 dark, Double/Skewer can start incurve, Daisharin is light, Impulse is dark. What other renkeis do your parties use? If it's any other, your party is shit to begin with.
I can make a renkei with any job i party with, be it DRK, PLD, MNK, THF. or WAR. Dai > Spin or Impulse > Cross/Spiral are the ones of choice, anyway.

Does DRG get shafted? Hell yes. Wyverns have low HP and can't be cured. We get the worst equipment, including cursed equipment (why the fuck do we need all that MP?) Our high end weapons come from difficult NMs that pop sparingly, and of course our intrinsic abilities don't come to use until ridiculously high levels. (great, ancient circle vs. an HNM for one minute, hey it might work once! of course we shouldnt be in the PT with the tank, so it won't work anyway). The bones thing is a big problem. I went to Ranperres' the other night and did 5 damage without food eaten. It's ridiculous. I would have just used a sword if I didn't need to start the renkei. There are alternative leveling spots, but no one will really want to go there. 73+ is gonna be Ro Maeve, and all weapons, so no wyvern there^^;

Ninja tanks rock if they know how to keep hate.
Samurai......sucks unless they sub RNG and have good accuracy with bows.
Dragoon...look like a mecha batman.

Every job is flawed except Bard. Just a matter of whether you enjoy playing it.

IMO, i feel the only thing that would really make Drgs happy altogether is having a bit more versatility in renkeis, and for that, all you would need is higher proficiency in 2h Staves maybe A- , kinda like how Drks got their GS proficiency increased. Overall, i don't even see an advanced class that uses 2h staves that's really a dmg dealer and has it as their highest proficiency, so it'd be better to go ahead with that plan. The wyvern is fine, too many ppl cry about it, but once they get the AF armor, they're fine with it.

WEak against bones, but that's just the moment for monks to shine, even Drks get shadowed by Monks at that point. I think monks deserve it as they get pretty much shafted until Raging Fists.

And no, Samurai DOESN"T suck. If you ever saw a high lvl Sam, who knows his role, you would see how easily he could create renkeis, cause major dmg because his meditate is 2x as much as subbed, and how often he can pentaspam if he switches from GS to Spear once in a while. I've seen some great Sam's and now they get a 5 hit WS, which makes them pretty damn useful. Ppl would pass some Drk's over for a Sam, because Sam won't get you necessarily as low hp as a Drk using SoulEater, Guillotine.
And with good accuracy, Samurais are pretty damn good high leveled.

So stop crying about the wyvern, guys, and try to get 2h staff proficiency to A or A-, that way you'll fit in more.
:handsdown

[Dredge]

In the end, Dragoons should be outdamaging Dark Knights really. Dark Knights don't pay hardly any penalties, are proficient with a few different weapons which means good skillchain versatility, have good utility spells and a good spell line up in general, and have access to much better defensive equipment. While I'll grant you Dark Knights have no natural hate mitigation ability to speak of, there are ways to counter this without sacrificing much in terms of damage output, and a well played Dark Knight WILL outclass a Dragoon significantly. Given our lack of utility and weapon versatility, this is also fairly unbalanced. Even if you fight things that don't kill your wyvern fast with AE's, a good Dark Knight is still more damaging. Simply put the best played Dragoon won't touch the best played Dark Knight in damage output. I used to believe the hate removal of a Dragoon would make the difference on the whole, but it honestly doesn't if your tank is good enough.

A well-equipped DRG with a wyvern will outdamage a DRK. Easily.

Last Resort really sucks. I would gladly trade Last Resort for one of your Jump abilities. LR is only useful when stacked with a WS and I bet the difference between damage of a LR'ed WS and a non LR'd WS doesn't equal the damage of a single Jump.

Many DRKs feel that Soul Eater is a curse as much as its a blessing. It does good damage, but it also drains 10% of our HP per hit and gains a whole lot of hate which means its instant death if not used carefully or if the tank isn't excellent. DRK's don't have the luxury of Super Jump.

The weapon versatility of DRK's is largely illusory. Although we are A- in Great Sword, after the mid forties it becomes extremely hard to keep two weapon skills maxed. I know very few DRKs who have both Great Sword and Scythe maxed in the high levels.

And our spells don't really make a difference at all. The only spells that are even worth casting are Drain, Aspir, Absorb-DEX, and Absorb-AGI and its not like we cast more than one spell per fight, if that.

We have access to better defensive equipment? Why would you even bring that up? Who cares if a melee damager has good defense? Rangers have some of the worst defense in the game but they can school us both when it comes to damage.

So in conclusion... stop whining, you're class is fine.

[Potsnu]

Sickle Slash (if for some reason you decide to level off spiders) is a counter, not a WS, so using Penta won't charge it, just an FYI.

Is it really? That's nice to know. Yea, I didn't fight spiders too often, maybe during 50-53 when I got Penta Thrust. The reason why I Thought it was a Mob WS was b/c, nearly every single time I did Pentathrust on them, it would use Sickle Slash almost instantly, before I could react and use Super Jump. It would make sense if it was a counter. Hehe I was lead to this impression b/c I have been One shotted a few times right after I penta'ed ^^

Really, one of the main reasons why I chose Drg was knowing the rough road ahead. I wanted to play this job because No other Mmorpg has this class, nor will it in the near future. I understand all the concerns about the lack of viable Skillchains during these levels. However, I assure you, when the game changes yet again for melees at 65+, Drg's are not left in the dust. For those that don't know, Lvl 3 Renkeis have 4 elemental properties in which Blm's can MB off of. Using Lv.3 Light as an example, our WS used to make it, would do roughly 200-300 dmg. However, the Light dmg itself is 1200-1400. Blm than has 4 options to burst off of: Fire, Wind, Thunder, Water (I just woke up, might be wrong heh). This than does another 2200 dmg or so. So really, we're no longer restricted to the dreaded Light/Drk dmg Renkeis. In fact, when you get Skewer at 60, Distortion is not too bad. You can normally do a Skewer --> dancing Edge and throw in Pentas in between before your Thf is ready to go again.

As I said before, the biggest flaw for Drg's and that will hurt us the most will be Undead. You could "try" to squeeze as much exp as you can out of Boyahda and "maybe" get 73 or so there. Than you only have a few spots you could go to ; ; Maybe I'll go back to Kuftal and chain those Dragons for #4/#5.

[struck]

Just be thankful Dragoon didn't turn out like Samurai.

[Weezingpipes]

Last Resort really sucks. I would gladly trade Last Resort for one of your Jump abilities. LR is only useful when stacked with a WS and I bet the difference between damage of a LR'ed WS and a non LR'd WS doesn't equal the damage of a single Jump.

While I don't think Last Resort is anything special outside WS and Berserk is better, its fine, and much better than a jump. Group with a Dragoon and try to notice how shitty that jump damage is, and how inaccurate it is.

Many DRKs feel that Soul Eater is a curse as much as its a blessing. It does good damage, but it also drains 10% of our HP per hit and gains a whole lot of hate which means its instant death if not used carefully or if the tank isn't excellent. DRK's don't have the luxury of Super Jump.

Every good DRK I've grouped with likes the ability and doesn't die using it.

And our spells don't really make a difference at all. The only spells that are even worth casting are Drain, Aspir, Absorb-DEX, and Absorb-AGI and its not like we cast more than one spell per fight, if that.

Just because you don't know how to magic burst, doesn't mean the damage option isn't there none the less. Also Absorb VIT seems useful when I've grouped with a DRK on higher def monsters. The absorbs aren't a massive difference, but generally enough to notice.

We have access to better defensive equipment? Why would you even bring that up? Who cares if a melee damager has good defense? Rangers have some of the worst defense in the game but they can school us both when it comes to damage.

It does matter, because thats one of the penalties of being a Ranger or a Dragoon is your craptastic defensive ability along with equipment. On the odds you do get hit, its nice to have so you aren't as much of a heal sponge. Point being, DRK really don't pay many penalties for their damage output, again a good tank makes any downsides not matter.

[Elusivellama]

* with ideas from Sanguine and Weezingpipes

Right now, at level 41, my wish list is this:

Job traits
1) More accuracy bonus traits, and/or another attack up trait. We have 3 job traits, 1 of which is basically useless for...what...71 levels, as Ayako said, in another post?


---


Job abilities
2) More job abilities. All I do right now is attack, jump, jump. Repeat and rinse. Yawn. Oh yeah, I also put on a light show with my uber 1337 Ancient Circle ability.

Ancient Circle (improved): Make it effective against lizards and birds also. Increase that timer, too...

Sic: Make the wyvern shoot out a breath attack that the monster is weak to. 2 min timer, or something.

Call Wyvern: Calls the wyvern. 30 min timer. Duration is the same as it is now.


---


Jump attacks
3) Unnerf the jump, please. It misses so much, and doesn't do much more dmg than a regular hit. I like that one suggestion where the jump keeps you in the air for a number of seconds, in return for 100% hit rate and damage modifier, and will borrow it for my suggestions ^^

Jump: 2 seconds airtime. 100% hit rate, 2x damage (including criticals). Regains 15% tp. 90 second timer. Gains some hate.

High Jump: 5 seconds airtime, 100% hit rate, 3x damage (including any criticals). Regains 18% tp. Chance of stunning the monster (come on, you're landing on the monster's head, driving your spear into its brain). 180 second timer. Gains more hate than Jump.

Evasion Jump: 3 seconds airtime, no damage, makes you invulnerable. Sheds some hate. 90 second timer.

High evasion jump: 6 seconds airtime, no damage, makes you invulnerable. Sheds more hate than Evasion jump. 180 second timer.

Super high jump: As I don't have the current SHJ, I'll make some assumptions here. 10 seconds air time, sheds all hate while you're in the air, makes you invulnerable. Gives you the option of attacking, or simply landing without doing any damage. The latter is what the SHJ should be right now. The former lets you do a 4x damage attack, regains 22% tp, chance of stunning but gains the same hate as a sneak + trick + viperbite. 5 min timer.



---


Wyvern gains tp for you
4)Wyvern gains tp for you. I like this idea...maybe 2% or 3% for every hit, and 5% for a breath attack.


---


New 2hr ability
5) Revamp 2 hr ability.

2hr suggestion: Chainjump. Just like RDM ability, except for jumps. The airtime remains the same, but the timers are removed. The evasion jumps cannot be used, and super high jump can only do damage (without the option of shedding hate). In addition, for 1 minute after Chainjump runs out, NO jumps can be used.

This means the dragoon can pump out a lot of damage by doing continual jumps, remaining relatively safe, but after the 2hr is finished and the monster is not dead, the hate will be built up so much that he/she might die.

Maybe also make the wyvern shoot its breath attack at every jump in the 2hr..


What do you guys think? Comments are appreciated, but constructive please....I'm really interested in seeing how the DRG class can be improved.

[NewMorning]

All your ideas sound great... that is what dragoon should of been.

the only addition would be plants the dragon could eat (or anything really) to cure health and poisons.

also commands to let him heal while you stand so you dont lose TP and commands to make the dragon stay and attack.. you could then go back a little and make the dragon stay/heal while you go fight and then you could make it attack when you wanted to.

with these in addition to the things you said i think that what make dragoon the job it should be.

[Zafron]

I am new to the game and i have read alot of conflicting accounts of the merits of DRG, DRGvDRK, etc etc etc.

personally i think the concept of DRG is cool and i'm sure i will enjoy playing it, and although i am no FFXI vet i strongly suspect job selection is meaningless in terms of in-game success. My experience in MMO games has been quite consistent:

player skill > equipment > everything else

just my view on things.

[DrSerpico]

I don't want to be an asswad, but you guys should be a bit more reasonable. Reading your suggestions I concur that you want 23 buffs and maybe a semi-drawback for your job.

We ALL want that. I agree with toning the jumps up a bit, but the suggestions you bring to the table are just overpowered. WAY overpowered. You'd be invincible and do more damage, please do that for all jobs?

Really, to draw this further, why don't we just implement a /godmode switch for drg? No, that was uncalled for, sorry.

I think that drg may need a little tweak upwards, but that's debateable. And ppl that are "gosu" and think "this and that really suck at high levels", come on! They don't suck, the game gets HARDER! As it SHOULD!

Choosing a job is about indulging your self in your personal preference, and working around your weaknesses, emphazising your strenghts and benefitting you party the most. This is well doable for almost all jobs and races, albeit some less than others.

This boils down more to the person itself than the job, imho. A flexible person will have an easier time finding their special niche in this game. I think we all need to play a bit longer and through more aspects of the game before judging.

And for some high levels, maybe open your mind to the possibility that it's more fun to NOT be overpowered and fly through mobs nonstop, but instead to WORK for what you get.

I think that's all from me for now.
Thx for reading. Bye.

[sonova]

i fail to see how a critique by a lvl 25 mnk/thf can be viewed as anything but comical

[Dredge]

Originally posted by sonova
i fail to see how a critique by a lvl 25 mnk/thf can be viewed as anything but comical

She's right. You guys sound like a bunch of whiney crybabies. Don't turn this game into the nerf fest that is EQ.

I mean really, if DRGs suck so bad than how is it possible that they even get picked in pick-up groups? According to this topic DRGs can't do anything except stand around with their lances up thier asses, which doesn't really hold up to the in-game reality since DRGs get picked over DRKs, MNKs and SAMs quite often. Its just a simple case of the grass always being greener. I especially like the part in an earlier post "DRGs should really be outdamaging DRKs." Well then why would anyone pick a DRK for a group? Our better defense? Hahaha. You kids make me life.

The only real problem you guys have is the lack of pole-arm friendly mobs at higher levels but that will most likely be fixed with the March update.

[SamuiFuyu]

All those ideas are great. I'd love to see Jump do something more then kick up dust.
But it's really one of those things where, if you like it enough. You'll stick with it through thick, and thin.

[sonova]

wtf she?

[zerohaste]

Before I start this I'll just mention right now I'm only a 52DRG/26WAR, so I have yet to see this high end game where bones are constanly fought for exp. Right now I party pretty regularly in Crawler's Nest fighting Helm Beetles.


The only things I would do in order to "fix" the Dragoon job would be three things:

1. Make Jumps slightly more powerful, with a high chance to cirtical, and far more accurate than a normal atttack. Consistently missing Jump and High jump in parties is beyond embarrassing.

2. Give Polearms better damage vs undead and beetles. It's pathetic right now, really.

3. Give Dragoon some sort of Convert type ability to heal our Wyvern. 15-20 min. timer that would take a percentage amout of HP from us and feed it to our Wyvern over the course of 30 seconds or so.

Those three things would more than "fix" the class without making it overpowered, IMO.

I, personally, don't even think the Wyvern should be a part of the Dragoon job. I was surprised at how much the cutscenes over the course of unlocking the job focused on the Wyvern. I don't even recall them mentioning the word "Jump", but it's been awhile since I unlocked it.

Dragoon should be all about Jumps, but what can you do. They can't just take the Wyvern away now that they put it in there without pissing a lot of people off.

[tam]

well.. if u take away the wyvern... then drgs become wars basically... with a timed double attack and super jump ... but no berserk and others... and weak armor

i personlaly would like to see more interaction with the wyvern though. like a combo attack or something not jus the wyvern breathing when u do a ws.

[Anaki]

first of al the clal wyvern is a two hour the wyvern is mainly a MASSIVE DAMAGE BOOST :) was donig 80 ws damage with it at like lvl 5... now later on when wyvern GETS REGEN :P it be allmighty and do what i do whenever you log off summoner your wyvern than you come back next day u got your two hour and a wyvern..


ONLY one complaint dman chocobos eat wyverns or sumthing because if you ride one ur wyvern will DIE :( :dead:

[shaunathan]

Dragoon: "ok firewing, let's hop this chocobo to bastok, you can fly along."

Firewing: "roar"

Chocobo: "wark? KIWEEH!!!!"

Firewing: "roar?"

Chocobo: "WARK WARK!!!" *much* *grind* *snap*

Dragoon: "Noooooooooooo not firewing!!!!!! WHY GOD WHY!!! TAKE ME YOU BLASTED CHOCOBO!!! TAKE ME INSTEAD!!!! "

*two hours later*

*summon: Firewing*

Dragoon: "you are soooo grounded..."

firewing: "roar....."

[poppipo]

to all you dragoons, stop complaining about the lack of hp yur dragon gets, and also i dont think most of yu actaully ARE dragoons cus if u are, yud know about theyre new ability called spirit link that tranfers yur hp yo thr wyvern

[Malefas]

Originally posted by poppipo
to all you dragoons, stop complaining about the lack of hp yur dragon gets, and also i dont think most of yu actaully ARE dragoons cus if u are, yud know about theyre new ability called spirit link that tranfers yur hp yo thr wyvern

Good to know that level 12 WHMs are the be-all and end-all of the DRG class.

[DM337]

Originally posted by poppipo
to all you dragoons, stop complaining about the lack of hp yur dragon gets, and also i dont think most of yu actaully ARE dragoons cus if u are, yud know about theyre new ability called spirit link that tranfers yur hp yo thr wyvern

Yeah, you'll also notice that the posts before yours were made FOUR MONTHS AGO, aka -before the update that gave DRGs Spirit Link.- Thanks for bringing up an old topic with poor, misguided information.

[Jugend]

Originally posted by DM337
Yeah, you'll also notice that the posts before yours were made FOUR MONTHS AGO, aka -before the update that gave DRGs Spirit Link.- Thanks for bringing up an old topic with poor, misguided information.
And with even poorer grammar. Blech. :dead:

[raidenn]

err DRKs die easily from hate?
Must be why DRGs are supposed to be picked over the other melee jobs.. Oh wait we match well with THFs because of Sneak Attack and TRICK Attack.

Too bad our Accuracy bonus suck.. I do love our purple armor. Very rad..