Are paladins going to get killed in PVP?

[Le0n]

How well would we stand against other classes in PVP?

[Somajan]

actually in my honest opinion, everybody is going to bow down to the might of the red mage.

They got all those defense skills that a whm has, plus all the goodness of a blm, and a few specials as well. Plus having chainspell in the beginning to setup all the spells that you would need then nuking whomever you're fighting against would = major pwnage.

[Zingy]

I would amagin that pld will stack up exactly the same as they did in EQ. Hard to kill, yet can't kill anyone by yourself.

[TheBruce]

Pal/Whm will be the way to go in pvp. From what it sounds like it'll be like Daoc and roving groups.

No smart group would attack the paladin till last, because basically its a tank and if the other team is concentrating solely on you, their mages will die very quickly and you'll be laughing at their corpses.

No, you won't be killing people left and right, but you won't be dying as much as a blm or ranger either.

If two groups meet, and they are both competent of course, the blm, drk, rng, brd will be down first. They are the easiest to take down and the most deadly so they'll be the first to go.

Pvp should be pretty interesting though, and you'll see combos that wouldn't work in exp groups but are deadly in pvp.

[Kai]

Paladin has the ability to do well in PvP if they have the right equip etc... don't forget we have max evasion =O.

[Sanhime]

I agree with Somajan, RDM is to be feared.

[Lyonesse]

PLD/NIN is going to be a very interesting combo along with the projected PLD/WHM.

PLDs have insane natural defense and we can afford to snack on food like meatkbobs while other classes can't to be frank. A nice 2H sword or two strong-handed swords will be very interesting. PLD/NIN will be quite nice though =D. High defense and ninjutsu to support fun fun.

[Lartfor]

We have nothing to fear from any of the other melee classes 2 hours because ours negates thiers and does the job it would do any way. 30 seconds of free hits = allot of dmg. Also war i think will be a good sub for pvp, berzerk and war cry when invinsible is up. Also Savage blade is something every one should fear ^^.

[James Ruglia]

Meat Cheifkabob+Berserk+Warcry+Great Sword=Paladin that does excusable damage, but STILL has over-average Defense?

[Lartfor]

I think you will see allot of paladins using all out offensive gear when they have thier invinsible up, then switching back to the standard old paladin gear, when defender goes down.

[July]

You all are forgeting that invincible only negates physical damage. Any form of magic will damage you. A matter of fact, I've died before with Invincible on. I also don't think that rdm will be that much to fear they don't have unlimited mp and if they spend a lot of time buffing up they're going to be attacked plus everyone forgot about interupting casting. So I think it's too soon to say that any class will excel or not excel in PvP untill we know about the what is allowed and what can happen during PvP matches. As for paladin sucking, defender + sentinel + Protect III...even a drk will be doing below average damage.

[riceburner4540]

well...i can't say much for the paladin 2hr except i know that it does negate magic damage...that's why many thieves bitch about their 2hr, because it negates physical damage only while pld 2hr negates all...though i'm not sure if it negates DOT (bio, poison, etc) because i haven't experienced it 1st hand.

as for interrupting a rdm's casts during his 2hr? impossible because spells have 0 casting time...it instantly fires. in 1 on 1 battles, the rdm would be feared for this reason because they can easily bind, debuff, nuke, convert, heal, nuke without a problem using chain spell...however, seeing as how pvp would most likely be party vs party, it's not quite as fearsome...a smart blm would target a rdm the instant he/she converts :biggrin: ...or silence the healers and watch the melees die helplessly.

[Nanila]

Lets not forget about Provoke here. Mobs in this game do use provoke, if you've been on those EF raids.. you know what I'm talking about. If you decide to fight the WHM mob, the WAR mob will use provoke on you. This switchs your target to him, and forces you to fight him. When you switch off back to the WHM, he just provokes you again.

I think since they already that feature in the game, we can expect to see it when PvP comes out. If some DRK runs over for your BLM or WHM you just provoke him. Forcing him to fight you while he's picked apart. In fact, if you have a couple people in your group with Provoke, you can stop all melee from touching your weaker members.

[July]

Originally posted by riceburner4540
well...i can't say much for the paladin 2hr except i know that it does negate magic damage...that's why many thieves bitch about their 2hr, because it negates physical damage only while pld 2hr negates all...though i'm not sure if it negates DOT (bio, poison, etc) because i haven't experienced it 1st hand.

as for interrupting a rdm's casts during his 2hr? impossible because spells have 0 casting time...it instantly fires. in 1 on 1 battles, the rdm would be feared for this reason because they can easily bind, debuff, nuke, convert, heal, nuke without a problem using chain spell...however, seeing as how pvp would most likely be party vs party, it's not quite as fearsome...a smart blm would target a rdm the instant he/she converts :biggrin: ...or silence the healers and watch the melees die helplessly.

um, sorry no you're wrong. Paladins 2hr only negates physical damage and that's it. I died while fighting an elemental. No mister "blm" that knows everything about a paladin tell me why you think it negates magic damage? Someone tell you that it. Well I AM a level 50 paladin and I know it does not negate magical damage...

[TheBruce]

Yah, hehe I wish it did negate magic damage or I wouldn't have eaten 700 dmg floods in the burning circle. Thank god I'm elvaan, both times came away with 65 hp. :eek:

[riceburner4540]

i stand corrected ^_^;;

No mister "blm" that knows everything about a paladin tell me why you think it negates magic damage?

just because blm is my main doesn't mean i haven't dabbled in other jobs...as for why i think it negates magic damage? what does "invincible" mean?

and i never claimed to know everything about plds. i take my 1st hand experience, observations, and what i learn from other players to draw my own conclusions. i've observed that paladins don't take damage while using invincible...i've seen it used plenty of times and have used it myself...i don't recall ever getting hit by a magic spell with invincible on though...i just *assumed*.

Consider the fact that of all the times i've seen a paladin use invincible and that they've never taken any damage, wouldn't be a safe assumption that it negates all damage? in all the chaos, (why would u use invincible otherwise, outside of bcnms?) it'd be fairly difficult to take notice of all these details such as which monster hit the paladin with which attack...so my assumption IS valid is it not?

if you saw a black mage train a huge mob of monsters that were all too weak to be worthwhile to him and saw him proceed to annihilate it with AE spells without as much as a single interruption despite the fact that he is constantly pounded by 20 monsters, wouldn't you assume that casts could not be interrupted by monsters that are too weak to be worthwhile? or would you take the time to figure out exactly why the black mage's spells weren't interrupted? i don't know about you, but most people would just assume (although it is a false assumption in this case).

anyways, thats what these forums are for...to communicate and to learn. i was obviously wrong with my assumption, and now i've learned from it. now...i wish to learn more about paladins, so please enlighten me with your vast knowledge, your highness.

Edit: oh yeah, regarding my last post about thf 2hr vs. pld 2hr...this thread (http://ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30514) was where i derived my information for my 1st paragraph...i don't recall any plds or thfs correcting the original post, so i *assumed* it was correct

[Nanila]

I think the Pally 2 hour used to stop magic attacks, but got changed. The info I looked up for our two hour did say that it stopped everything including magic, and recommended to use it when facing mobs with strong magic. Of course the guy who wrote the stuff could've been wrong and didn't know what the 2 hour really did.

[Aniga]

Originally posted by TheBruce
Yah, hehe I wish it did negate magic damage or I wouldn't have eaten 700 dmg floods in the burning circle. Thank god I'm elvaan, both times came away with 65 hp. :eek:

You lie, we've never let you been hit by a flood!

[TheBruce]

Lol, I'VE never let me get hit with flood during our BC's.

But I had about 10 bc's under my belt before I met uz guyz, and didn't know a few things I know now.

[Negorath]

I remember reading somewhere S-E was gonna rebalance the proffesions for PvP... time will tell :)

[imac2much]

I read this as well Lartfor and have to admit it fears me greatly... it chills the very fabric of my soul!!

Well, hyperbole aside, I have experienced many a MMORPG go down the drain due to 'PvP balancing'... I seriously hope squenix doesn't make similar mistakes. The jobs have remained constant since NA release (except possibly the yokodama fix), and it would suck if they suddenly change because of PvP.

*Imagines RNG/BLM binding people then spamming barrage, sidewinders and slug shots...*

[Claritin]

I would think PLD/RDM might not be so bad either.

I have tinkered with a few things solo.. and PLD/RDM does a decent job. Once you hit 40 PLD/20 RDM you have

Cure III
EnLightening
Blaze Spikes
Bind

Now normally we don't hit very hard... but with EnLightening it helps a bit... but with Blaze Spikes it should help ALOT... with our defense and people taking damage by hitting us... well that's like a match made in heaven. The problem is that there is no incentive for the enemy to attack you and only you... so in a party vs party fight you are near useless. But 1 on 1 PLD/RDM should be decent.

PLD/BLK would be good also... they also get spikes but not the En's however if they start to loose... you WARP OUTTA THERE.... and that will be handy.

PvP teams is all about crippling the healing power though.
1.) Silence the people who can unsilence
2.) Bind the melee
3.) Kill the WHM
4.) Kill the other teams silencers
5.) Finish off the ones that are left.

You fight 1 person at a time... healers first, then Damage dealers, then tanks....

So as PLD in a party involved in PvP....
Expect to be bound and perhaps silenced.... watch all of our friends die... then watch them close in on us.

That is of course if you are not the one doing the ambush ;-) I am not a big fan of PvP... I just know how it works.... so I am usually the one who gets ambushed.

Picking a sub that has silence cure would be smart.... or carry antidote if they sell it... I haven't had to buy antidotes or healing potions etc yet (due to my job choices)

Also never ever get involved in PVP without food and juice... you need every scrap of power you can get.

[Quezi]

Herm, yeah pvp usually messes mmorpgs up. Iv yet to see one actually do it right. Look at daoc and sb, both pvp focused, both totally suck at it, the only reason daoc is popular is it has a nice smooth pve system with out the 'klunkyness' that eq has, if they spent all the time they spent trying to balance pvp in daoc on making pve better, it would have outshone eq in pve content in every way on release.

Im not a fan of pvp, but thats because i have yet to see a well made pvp system. Running around in swarms of 2 to 30 ganking everything thats smaller than you just seems boring to me, its the exact same thing as pve as far as entertainment goes, only less predictable so you are open to more frustration.

Mmorpgs, while all taking a kind of 'skill' to play, mostly have to do with agro management, finding the most effective way to kill the same predictable mob over and over to maximize exp flow. Basically it takes experience and common sense, bad players are ones who are just to thick headed to look at something dynamically and instead simply run around, satisfied with sub-average or averageness, being lazy and not trying to strive for that perfect hunt where all people are in harmony, no word needs spoken, and not a single amount of resource (the entire collective everything that your character has, from hitpoints to spells to food you brought to every single variable is resource) is wasted. In a perfect PT, if its a wipe, every single person will die at the exact same time, after all being slowly brought down to near death by trading agro, with all resources expended.

The problem here is that pve is designed to work off of numerical advantages, you and those around you are collectively stronger than the mob you are after. So skill is not about making the impossible possible, or beating the odds, it is about playing at the highest point of efficiency. In pvp, a system like this just goes to hell, because unless every ones character is equal, there is no real way to ever feel like things are balanced, thus someone will always be complaining, and rightfully so. Things will get changed, and changed, and changed again, because there is no way to have a balanced pvp system in an mmorpg environment where your entire character is based around getting a numerical advantage, someone must ALWAYS be better by design. Its always going to be your character, not you, that does good or bad in pvp. Yes a poor player will loose to a good player at a disadvantage, but again, you can never surpass your characters limitations, and being that, as i said, all it takes is experience and common sense to 'master' a mmorpg, it should be assumed that the number of people who are playing their character to its full ability are numerous.

This is based on my experiences in the 6 years i have been playing mmorpgs, all of which had some sort of pvp element to them. I have not yet played this game, as i am waiting for it to come out on ps2 due to the fact that 6 years of heavy mmorpg playing in this little chair has ruined my back :biggrin: and i need to recline now in my lazy boy.

Based simply on the grand pattern on how mmorpgs usually go, i will assume that paladins, being defensive tank, with magic and whatnot, will do as they always do in every single pvp instance i have ever encountered, and be wonderful 1 on 1, and maybe even 2 on 1 against the right things, but be near useless in large scale encounters. That is unless provoke works like a post above mine speculated, then that would be a good change.

The pattern is always, defense > offense in a duel, offense > defense in a melee. Again this speculation is based upon the great and seemingly unchanging pattern of how mmorpgs work. Change would be welcome and appreciated but im a pessimist so theres my opinion.