Why does our DMG suck so much?

[kainzero]

Man, this is embarassing.

I was really bored and joined a friend's PT, which started out nice and degenerated into crap because the WHM took over and invited crappy people. We still managed to turn it into something somewhat good... but downtime was horrible... yet, 2.5xp/hr.

Anyway--

The meleeing WHM/BLM with some hammer did more damage than me with Hunting Sword.

Hume WHM/BLM WS 300% - Seraph Strike 280 dmg
Elvaan PLD/WAR WS 300% - Seraph Blade 240 dmg

WTH! That's not cool! Embarassing even... she was consistently hitting 20ish damage too, while I was hovering around 20-30. Well, I don't know how much she missed...

Geez. That's the only time I get to skillchain too, ending with 240 dmg makes me happy ^^

[PsychoMatrix]

Because we aren't damage dealers.....:rolleyes:

[Kerensky]

It's not that bad, at level 46 using the AF1 Honor Sword, I swing for 25~35 on IT Rumble Crawlers/Exorays. The DRG's were swinging for 60~70 using their 2H Polearms. Of course I know they have wyrvens, jump abilities, and at 49, pentathrust to stack on the damage. 1H Sword weapon skills just aren't that great imo. Of course I still havn't seen Spirits Within, or the 200+ skills, so maybe one of those will save the day. :rolleyes:

[bside]

damage of elemental ws' like Seraph Blade and Seraph Strike depends not solely, but greatly on INT stat. (u can realize this by comparing the damage of the same ws w/ taru pld of the same lvl.) and elv pld's INT is low like a joke.

about that whm's damage..., hammer's delay must have been longer than ur hunting sword, so no wonder.

[foobar]

If she makes fun of you, have her tank. :)

[bside]

Originally posted by foobar
If she makes fun of you, have her tank. :)

really off the topic here, but i've seen a lvl 25 galka whm w/ WAR SUB. yes, u saw it right. and his search comment read as "Will Provoke. can finish renkei w/ Earth Crusher."

for those of u who r laughing now thinking it to be a joke, here's what my friend told me. he is a hume pld, and once made a party w/ similar galka whm, and that galka had more HP and MP than he did, dealing more damage, renkei-finishing Earth Crusher was doing really nice damage, and thanks to the lvl 23 Cotton Doublet and other armors, had good defense. oh yes, that galka was of course subbing war. yes, completely a melee. :spin:

he was crying out loud wondering wtf the meaning of him was in that group...

not to mention that galka didn't have enough MP for Raise, although he was lvl 25. :spin:

[Sanhime]

As was said before, we are damage takes, not damage dealers. :sweat:

For example, I usually play and level with the same people.

The party makeup is usually: PLD, MNK, THK, RDM, WHM and (WHM, BLM, or RNG)

The MNK and THF and the main melee damage dealers, dealing a typical damage of 500-700 + 200-300MB (I only hit about 100 in the chain ^^;) with me included in the skill chain against a typical IT mob. FYI, we're lv50.

If you play PLD, defense is everything, don't spend too much on weapons (unless you have too much gil). At lv50, with all the buffs and defnse ability active, my DEF is about 550.

[Nomaar]

I think she realizes Paladins are not primary damage dealers. Her point is that the WHM is even more far removed from being a damage dealer, yet still hit harder than her.

[Sanhime]

Originally posted by Nomaar
I think she realizes Paladins are not primary damage dealers. Her point is that the WHM is even more far removed from being a damage dealer, yet still hit harder than her.

I'm not surprised. :sweat:

The mages in my PT usually do more damage than me, too. :biggrin:

[foobar]

As you go higher and higher it gets even worse. My defense right now with all active abilities/buffs is around 600 while my attack is below 200 :spin:

[Tidane]

Originally posted by foobar
As you go higher and higher it gets even worse. My defense right now with all active abilities/buffs is around 600 while my attack is below 200 :spin:

Geeze...level 33 DRK I can get close to 200 ATK with my buffs up...my DEF is around 110 or something with Protect II though.

[Lyonesse]

Not surprising Bside, I tanked with my WHM in the 20s up to the early 30s. It's still even possible for WHMs to tank in their 40s (although it isn't desirable =p). The class itself is a magic class but has the strongest physical statistics (and equipment) of all the "Mage" classes with the real exception being RDM.

At any rate, PLD damage doesn't suck but it is kinda saddening that our damage is comparable to a WHM's when using 1h weapons >_<. Give us a 2h weapon and it's a different story though =D.

[kainzero]

Geeze...level 33 DRK I can get close to 200 ATK with my buffs up...my DEF is around 110 or something with Protect II though.
Interesting, cuz I remember stacking Prot III, Sentinel, and Fish Mithka and got 300 DEF at 34. XD

I dunno. I just expected that a guy wearing heavy armor and using swords should do more damage than a guy that can't wear heavy armor and uses rods.

[Lartfor]

Well from what i have found... Defender is rather a worthless skill, my dmg goes down from about 25-40 to about 5-20, and the mobs do not really hit me for much less (this is using food). From many logs i found that the dmg to damage taken ratio is FAR higher if you just use food instead of defender, 440 defense is not much different than 500 defense when a mob only has 300 atack power... One more thing, dmg IS important, it is more imporant than most relize, because yes we are not damage dealers, but we cannot rely on just our provokes and flashes to give us agro. With defender up a monk out agroes me every time, w/o it up i keep it just fine. Is that 5 less dmg per hit worth agro switching to the monk and hitting him for 100+?. From my logs I do not think so.

I will continue testing and hopefully have some logs to post soon.

[Icemage]

Good WHM don't melee until they have 300% TP. If your WHM was using a hammer (undoubtedly the case if he was dealing as much damage as you), that means he's not using a wand to increase his magical stats.

I'd have kicked that WHM from my party - if he's got 300% TP, he's not resting. No rest = no MP. No MP = melee white mage who can barely deal as much damage as a PLD. If that's what you want, why not invite someone like...oh... a DRG and get some real damage production, since he's obviously not playing his role as healer anyway? ^^


Icemage

[Lyonesse]

Good WHMs can heal while meleeing and balance the two. To think that a WHM can't do both is prepostorus =P

[Icemage]

Good WHMs can heal while meleeing and balance the two. To think that a WHM can't do both is prepostorus

...which has nothing to do with what I said above.

Any WHM who accumulates 300% TP in an XP party is not "balancing" anything. They're meleeing to the exclusion of filling their role as healers - this is the sort of WHM that needs to be kicked from a party and told to go play a melee job.

If you want to argue the point that you could theoretically wait around at level 41+ and wait for the Bard and/or Red Mage to refill your MP in order to preserve TP, feel free, but in the mean time I'll be busy resting in the corner getting the extra 100+ MP to keep my party alive instead of pretending that I actually deal significant amounts of damage.


Icemage

[foobar]

I'm with Icemage on this. I have yet to see the mob in a level up party that does not have some sort of nasty AoE. A level up party is no place for a melee whm. Join a skill up party if you want to level your weapon.

[Lartfor]

Its not like a whm sits after every heal... they do it in cycles... I dont see what is wrong with the whm running up and beating it when he is in his healing cycle, and then when he is in his sitting cycle he can back up and rest.... Of course if the mob uses aoe then the whm should not be any where near it.

[ashlitadawn]

I play a whm and i spend a good bit of my time partied with pld , I personnaly dont care if pld does 1 damage per hit as long as he keeps the agro. His is not a damage dealing class we have blm/drk etc... for that. His job is to stand there and let the mobs beat the crap out of him, and noone on the game does it better.Yeah i do more damge per hit than a pally but let that mob come after me and see who i turn to for some relief.

[ematsui]

PLD can do dmg... High LvL 1hs weapon skills are sweet.

Vorpal Blade - skill 200 - was doing about 600 to 800 dmg on Lichs in Edieme.

Savage Blade (this one is sweet, its a huge jumping attack) not sure what skill but lvl 71 is when it becomes avail for pld - was doing 600-800 dmg on Lichs in Edieme..

Remember that this were bones.. so dmg output is gonna be lower..


PLD at higher lvls for sure can do dmg.. i dont even know what dmg is when using Spirits Within weapon skill

[canine]

The onwy reason people love the poor pawadins is for getting themselves hurted. >_<

[imac2much]

Citing how much damage a WS does to a much lower level mob is no indication of how useful it is in PTs.

For example, I can do 500+ when farming with Pentathrust. How much can it do on XP mobs? 0, it will never hit... maybe it will do 15 damage.

Yes, vorpal can do great damage on low level mobs... I can do 600+ damage (and I'm guessing whoever you were watching was higher level since they have Savage Blade). But at least at my level, Vorpal only does 100-300 damage on XP mobs. Spirits within 300% tp 100% hp does 590 damage, but I'd rather crank out 3 vorpals in that time (more hate... counts as 12 attacks).

And on IT++ mobs, you won't have enough +acc and +atk as other jobs do, so you will only do 50-150 damage with Vorpal. PLD will never be a damage dealer... they can contribute a *little*, but will never ever be considered a damage dealer in an XP PT.

[nuvas]

:biggrin:

[Kagi]

Bah. Highest I got was 683 on an acrophies. ^^

[Argonic]

Originally posted by Lartfor
Its not like a whm sits after every heal... they do it in cycles... I dont see what is wrong with the whm running up and beating it when he is in his healing cycle, and then when he is in his sitting cycle he can back up and rest.... Of course if the mob uses aoe then the whm should not be any where near it.

Just an opinion from a low level player, but shoulden't the WHM stay away so if the mob aggros them you have more time to get it off? If the mob has to run for a bit to get to the WHM that gives you extra time and a warning to get the mob off before it hits them. Just IMO...

[Kagi]

As a pld you have the capabilities to prevent that from happening. ^^ If you lose aggro to a meleeing whm you need a crash course in hate management.

[TheBruce]

Lol not neccassarily true. Was farming NM's with a 67 whm in Temple of Ugglapith(sp) and we were messing around with light renkei's. Well the whm finished the renkei with hexastrike and did 800 damage with a 1200 light damage bonus, lets just say it was pretty hard to get the monster off him after that, even chain curing and blowing all of my abilities didn't move the monster.

But these are easy prey to weak monster and agro on them is much harder considering the fact the melee's will just be destroying them.

[Kagi]

EP is another story ^^;;; I can never keep hate consistently on EPs. But IT I rarely lose it unless the melees purposely try to yank it off me (they like doing that to their long-suffering meatshield :( )

[foobar]

Back on topic, while doing genkai2 last night a 300% Spirits Within did 938 on the hound. :spin:

[imac2much]

The 900+ SW's are rare, they only happen when you get a Double Attack in the WS. Spirits Within is only dependent on TP and current HP, as a Galka we always have an advantage here. Did a 1200 damage Spirits Within recently :cool:

But yeah, Whren is right, I have a tough time holding aggro on EP's =\ So on EP's I usually use spears to Penta spam... I know GS is stronger and we have better skill in it, but no good WS... with spear, I do less damage, but can do pentathrust very frequently... dunno, I love spear, I hate GS, I just wish we had higher skill in it :(

[MessiahX]

I dont know if this has been mentioned in previous posts, didnt want to read through all of it =\. But, Vorpal Blade does some decent dmg as a WS. I can do around 450+ dmg at 300% tp. maybe around 100-200 at 100%. Makes soloing EP a little easier.

[ECloudStrife]

I was running around with my Pld doing some questing and shot the occasional low lvl mob with my bow...and noticed it did some reasonable dmg. Now to my knowledge this has never been tried, and I have not tested this theory myself, as my Archery Skill is very low, but in an XP PT, could a Pld/War with capped Archery Skill do decent dmg with Ranged Attacks?

I realize that most Pld would probly not hit very often with the Ranged Attack, so would this even be worth the effort?

Just a thought...

[Lartfor]

I dont think you can get a dbl atack on Spirits within because it is not a "physical" based atack even though it is physical dmg. You cant miss with it or crit with it or anything, its just steady consitent dmg. Any way the reason you did 900+ dmg spirits is because it was on that hound which takes about 2x normal dmg.

Our damage really only sux cus we miss so often, i do 20-45 dmg to ITs with gluttony and on average 150 dmg vorpal to ITs. I did get a freak 585 damage vorpal to an IT though, 4 crits ><. Any way we are not damage dealers like so many said.

Now a question for you fellow 60+ paladins out there, i no longer use defender, I notice no difference in damage taken, is this the same for you?

[kainzero]

but in an XP PT, could a Pld/War with capped Archery Skill do decent dmg with Ranged Attacks?
good luck, cuz you're staring at a big fat F for archery.
no skill ups, completely dependent on subjob skill.

[ECloudStrife]

Originally posted by kainzero

good luck, cuz you're staring at a big fat F for archery.
no skill ups, completely dependent on subjob skill.

Ok, thanks for the info ^^

Now that I know,I won't go spending Hours and hours and tons of gil to cap my Archery Skill =P