Equipment for the 40-45 PLD

[Wyver]

At 40 a lot of equipment options open up to PLD in the form of earrings, rings(like the HP -20, MP 20), Plate, CP(Sandy) chain with dex/agi, and on and on.

My question to Elidrin, Whren and the other higher level PLDs is based on your experience, what equipment should an Elvaan PLD focus on in the 40-45 range? For Elvaan, is the MP gain from electrum rings worth the loss of 20hps. Is the 1 dex worth the 1 less def you get from the plate BP? Can you see any noticeable gain from using wing earrings? Would drone earrings be 30k gil better? ie worth the investment?


My current set up:
Wing earring x2
Tiger Stole
Bomb ring
Balance ring
Warrior's belt +1
Iron Musketeer's Armet
Breastplate
Cuisses
Elvaan rse gauntlets
Elvaan rse boots
Kite Shield
Hunting Sword

My main dilemma is in the hand/feet/earring/ring area. With out the gil to buy and test the effects of the different combinations its hard to tell what the actual benefit/value is.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Wyver

[imac2much]

I'm not Elvaan, but I'll try to help.

Drone earrings... meh, I tested once again with an extended playtime using 2 drone earrings as opposed to my black earrings (and bat earrings when I get to that level), and I noticed no difference. Supposedly 6 AGI should mean I get crit less (the 3 evasion isn't significant) but I could not notice a difference. With no drone earrings, monsters still miss me when I use flash so... meh. But as an Elvaan I guess your AGI is lower than mine (only slightly though)... I don't think 2 AGI you lose with wing earrings will make much of a difference but then again, you will probably keep those earrings your entire career, so it won't hurt to get them.

I'd prefer an Electrum Ring to your Balance Ring, even as an Elvaan... won't make much difference though when you start PTing with Refresh RDM and Ballad 1+2 BRDs...

Replace Tiger Stole with Holy Phial. Later you may want to change to Sandorian Collar (or whatever, it adds acc and atk), though I am sticking with Holy Phial until Darksteel Gorget.

Warrior's Belt+1 isn't too bad, I kept Friar's Rope until Life belt (most Elvaan go RK belt instead of Life belt though).

Difference in BP and RylSqur Chain is hardly noticeable, 1 DEX isn't going to make much difference. I thought it would look sexy so I bought it, but was shocked by the ugliness. At 45 get the uglier Chess Board armor (Brigandine) for enhanced DEF and other stats.

You'll probably want to replace Kite Shield with Heater shield at level 42 I think, not too big of a difference though.

RSE? Hm... the def you miss out on gets pretty apparent, you should probably use IM gauntlets and boots. Sorry, I'm not very familiar with what stats Elvaan RSE add, but nothing can be worth the DEF loss between RSE and IM at this level.

The cookie-cutter Elvaan PLD setup at level 50 is as follows:
Tact Mag Espadon
TK or RK shield
Full IM gear, though some people opt for lvl 50 Sandoria CP esp for gloves, but since you'll be gettin AF for that soon might as well wait
2 Drone Earrings
Earth Mantle
RK Belt
2 Phalanx Rings

[foobar]

At 50 IM boots and gloves aren't that good. No point in getting lvl 40 items that add ranged accuracy. If you're short on cash and you're not Sandorian go for the mythril boots and gloves (lvl 49).

[imac2much]

I politely disagree. Mythril boots and gloves are only better than level 40 IM boots and gloves by ONE defense each. On the other hand, keeping the level 40 IM gear allows you to have equipment for things such as BCNM40 while only sacrificing TWO defense total. If you want to upgrade at all, upgrade to sandoria CP lvl 50 boots and gloves... don't bother getting mythril if you already have IM.

[TheBruce]

The defense you gain with the IM gaunts/feet is negligible at 40, as long as you use boiled crayfish you'll most likely be over the defense limit and so an extra 2-5 armor will not be noticeable. RSE is a good choice because you don't have a friar's belt and a holy phial yet.

Wing earrings is what I used until 60 and I bought 2 bat earrings. They are fine and are so cheap compared to the other equip slots.

I really really wouldn't get hp==>mp items. You'll need every bit of hp for the exorays you need to fight for your genkai 1. Those things are paladin killers with their silence special attacks.

Basically your equip is gtg. You should start looking into ways of making money before you hit 50. Blowing 400k at lvl 50 isn't a big stretch.

[foobar]

instead of getting the IM armor at 40 you could get the cheap plate armor which again, sacrifices 1 defense point but saves you from bankrupcy. :)
In this case, you get a 4 defense boost with mythril. IMO, every point counts, even 2. :biggrin:
I had the boots but never used them at 40 and sold them at 50 since I went Mythril. Too close to AF to spend the big bucks in Sandoria CP items.

[Arnda]

Originally posted by foobar
instead of getting the IM armor at 40 you could get the cheap plate armor which again, sacrifices 1 defense point but saves you from bankrupcy. :)
In this case, you get a 4 defense boost with mythril. IMO, every point counts, even 2. :biggrin:
I had the boots but never used them at 40 and sold them at 50 since I went Mythril. Too close to AF to spend the big bucks in Sandoria CP items.

Plate Gauntlets and Boots, yes, I agree with you that it's cheaper.

But you cannot, CANNOT replace that IM Armet's +2 VIT. So the cheapskate lv40 PLD would buy all plate and an IM Armet, and that should put you in good stead without completely breaking your wallet.

Likewise, poor ~50 PLDs can get Mythril for like what, 6k apiece? I saw that when I was upgrading and buying stuff (everything I need to the 40s now :biggrin: ) and it floored me. I could sell my Centurion at lv40, upgrade to plate first and mythril later, and make a PROFIT. Kind of silly.

[Wyver]

Thank you all for the quick replies.

For those that don't know the stats on the Elvaan rse hands and feet they are as follows:

Magna Gauntlets
Armor Type: Racial Gear
Slot: Hands
Defense: 6
Level: 27
Special Properties:
MP+24 DEX+2 INT+1

Magna M Ledelsens
Armor Type: Racial Gear
Slot: Feet
Defense: 5
Level: 29
Special Properties:
MP+20 AGI+3 INT+2

The replacement for these at 40 would be:

Iron Musketeer's Gauntlets
Def: 12 Ranged Accuracy: 5

Iron Musketeer's Sabatons
Def: 10 Ranged Accuracy: 5

So the total difference between Elvaan RSE and the IM is:
IM = +11 def -43mana -2dex -3agi -3int

I’m thinking the answer might be a combination of the 2. Use the IM gauntlets because they give the highest def gain(+6) and keep the RSE boots for the mana and agi. If the def is a problem I could use def food over my normal meat mithkabobs.

Thoughts?

Again thank you all for the helpful advice. It’s nice to have a supportive PLD community to come to when we have questions.


Wyver

[TheBruce]

I wouldn't use mithakabobs if I were you. You're not there for damage, you're there to soak up the damage. And the amount gained from eating a boiled crayfish/crab (crab is a waste, cuz your spending a good portion of your gil on food when you should be saving for equip) will signifcantly lower the damage done to you. Its probably about as much as what going defensive would give without the side effects. And having both defensive/crayfish on when somethings up will greatly help your group and reduce you and your whm's deaths.

The beetles/exorays you'll be fighting soon are no joke, and really put the hurting on at your level.

[Arnda]

In my experience, the damage I take when eating crab is significantly less than when eating crayfish at lower levels. While crayfish might pretty well push you to the defense limit after 40, before the low 30s I can say from experience that the 20% benefit of crab is much, MUCH more critical. While I certainly take less damage with crayfish (my standard, because I'm poor), I take remarkably less with crab.

That edge is starting to go away now that I have Def II and Sentinel, however, as I'm starting to see much more consistent (and low) damage against things I'm tanking. I'll need to get some Crab again and see how it works viz-a-viz crayfish, as it may not have the effect it used to. However, these monsters I am fighting tend to have lower attack relative to other monster types (you know the ones, the pre-CN ones). Against high-attack monsters like Exorays, however, I would imagine the extra defense might be worth it again.

As imac and I have demonstrated through our mutual intellectual headbutting, there is a defense threshold SOMEWHERE; buying food and armor, you have to ask yourself which will cause you to reach that threshold more cheaply. The answer may not always be scrimping for that better piece of armor, especially as your defense goes up and 10% or 20% of that figure becomes a bigger and bigger chunk.

EDIT: And meat mithkabobs are anathema. Bad Paladin!

[TheBruce]

How do you afford to use boiled crab at level 30?!? You are correct and boiled crab does help a great deal, but seriously man, if your blowing that type of money for an exp session you are either very rich or don't exp that often in relation to doing other things. That is just a waste of money, most people can exp without any food buff, and having a boiled crayfish will help damage mitigation a great deal, but blowing 1k an item to lower the damage by a small percentage isn't wise imho.

Now if your fighting an exceptionally hard monster, boiled crab and fishkabobs are "don't leave home without it".

[Arnda]

1k an item? Hardly. Crab must be terribly expensive on your server, because I can get a stack for 3.8-4.9k, with the occasional 5k+. I normally CAN'T afford it, but I have a bit more money than other people (several of my friends have quit the game and given me their stuff, which I turned into what little cash you can get from lv20 equipment), so I will now and again buy one or two crab and a stack of crayfish. I use the crayfish in regular groups, becauseI don't feel like dying, and if the group turns out to be awesome, they get a crab upgrade for a few hours.

[asushiman]

3-5k for food for an experience group. dang you're rich. I would only use the corns coz their so darn cheap but effective. hey +3 VIT and +6 HP for 600 a stack of 12 isnt bad.

[nuvas]

Boiled crab is around 6k and Fish Mithkabobs fluctuate from 6k-6.5k on Midgard.

Been using one or the other since my late 30s.

[Kagi]

Most of the stuff has been said by everyone else, and I'm not elvaan so I didn't bother about mana/agi, but every single elvaan paladin I knew at the time was using IM for boots. Also if you have more money to burn you could try dodge earrings instead, straight evasion+3 each and quite a few high level jp plds use them as well.

Just a point to note... I was level 42 on the pld af1 trip with Thebruce and some other pallies and they all laughed at me for still using that kite shield. :sweat: So upgrade that when you can. :spin:

[Susano]

On Lakshmi a stack of boiled crawfish is 7k and a stack of boiled crab is 20k......


Needless to say, I won't be eating foot for xp pt's anytime soon.

[TheBruce]

You can make boiled crayfish with like 2 cooking skill. And fishing them up is quite easy as well.

[Cade]

boiled crayfish is a lv. 6 cooking skill, i believe....

...and whats the big deal with getting a RK/TK shield at 50 anyway? They're only 2 points more in defense than the Heater. Sure the stat bonuses are nice, but not really all that necessary. At lv. 54 theres a shield that has the same defense, but sells for 50k less than a RK/TK.

[kainzero]

the next shield upgrade is 43 with heater shield... so i dunno why they laughed at your kite shield ^^;

right now i don't know what earrings to buy, so far i have-
Honor Sword
Kite Shield
IM Helmet
Breastplate/Plate everything else
Warrior's Belt + 1 (I don't imagine ever buying a new belt for the PLD)
Holy Phial
Wolf Mantle + 1
2 Vit+2 Sphene rings

The only upgrade that I'm thinking about is Brigandine at 45, and Bastok mantle at 55. Otherwise, I have no idea what else is good, and I think this is all pretty much great equipment, but I don't have any earrings. VIT+11, 213 DEF.

As far as food goes, I used to spend a lot on fish mithakbobs and I smiled everytime I saw a Kazham Mandra do single digit damage on me. But now we can easily get #4 chains without me eating food, no downtime, so now I just save food for bosses.

[Susano]

Not 40+ gear, but I didn't want to create a new post just for this question:

I just came upon 2 sphene rings, +2 vit and some other resist. Do you think one of them should replace my Sandorian ring? 2 def, 1 str, and 1 mnd seems better than 2 vit.....What are your thoughts?

[imac2much]

At level 34, honestly neither will make much of an impact. VIT isn't as important at lower levels since you can't hit the DEF threshold.

At higher levels, I would suggest VIT. I talked to the almighty nuvas :spin: yesterday, and he told me with his Gluttony Sword, RK belt, etc weak enemies hit him for 0. This proves the fact that STR-VIT check is linear (and can in fact be negative). So if you hit the defense threshold where more defense will barely decrease defense (easy to do when you use food, defender, etc), then each point of VIT will matter all the more. I plan to get VIT+3 rings sometime between 60 and 70.

[Kensai]

Since people are just now discovering all of this about vit and def, can the effect be the same for atk and str? I'm not sure how high level play is so maybe you don't even reach the amount of defense that the monster has but with so much atk equipment being worn there could be diminishing returns from it.

[Arnda]

The opposite is exactly true for the attacking stats.

Your STR has a linear relationship against the target's VIT in determining base damage. This is why low-STR characters hit for 0 or 1 against really high-VIT monsters, and why a STR-down attack seems to have almost as much of an effect as Attack-down.

Attack is exponential like Defense, just in the opposite way. You don't get much damage increase until your attack is equal to the target's defense. After that, ever-increasing attack seems to provide an ever-increasing damage benefit. Hence, +attack doesn't seem to do very much unless you break the damage threshold... which is why you see DRKs wailing on Snippers in Valkurm for 20-40+ while their party hits it for 0-10. I have a theory that it also explains the insane damage of Rangers, as Ranged Attack can be found in quite a few places and the benefits are often quite high (+5 on the Ranger's Necklace, etc.), which compounds with the high WD stat of Bow+Arrow.

[imac2much]

Not quite Arnda. You're on the right track, but human players face different limitations when it comes to the damage formula as attackers.

Attack is always more important than STR in XP PT's. Why? Because of damage caps. There are different damage caps depending on when you "check" a monster and whether it says "high defense", "low defense", or nothing at all. This is why even if you have low attack, you want to use +ATK items and food so you can at least bring the monster to say nothing about defense. STR will add a little to damage (not much honestly) and also have the bonus of increasing your damage cap a bit. This isn't as important in XP PT since you will not reach your damage cap anyway. Attack is much more important, unless you are MUCH stronger than your target.... which will never happen in XP PT.

[Arnda]

Actually, I think there's a bias towards level, isn't there? It isn't so much whether you're stronger (though that matters), but also whether you are fighting a mob that is IT to you, or EP. From what I remember of the site, doesn't that alter the deviation of damage ranges between the attacker and defender? It certainly seems that a level bias exists.

[imac2much]

Quoted from the site:
"* the Damage rate

[center] = ([your ATK] / [Mobs DEF]) x Unknown
[center Maximum] = 2.0
[center Minimum] = 0.0

[rate] = [center] + random(-0.5 .. +0.5)
[rate Maximum] = 2.0
[rate Minimum] = 0

Critical Hit = Rate + 1.0 ( rate can grow 3.0 )
Guard Hit = Rate - 1.0 ( rate cannot reduce negative )


/check Monster
monster has higher DEF -> your center is 0.0-0.5

monster has normaly DEF(no text) -> your center is 0.5-1.5

monster has lwoer DEF -> your center is 1.5-2.0



if your center is 2.0 (has very high ATK), 5 attack rate will...

1st -> random is -0.5 ... rate 1.5

2nd -> random is -0.3 ... rate 1.7

3rd -> random is +0.0 ... rate 2.0

4th -> random is +0.3 ... rate 2.3 -> 2.0 [Max]

5th -> random is +0.5 ... rate 2.5 -> 2.0 [Max]"

Yeah I think I misworded my statement, but the same basic idea applies. The damage cap is still there, but your "average" damage (affected by the 'center') will change depending on how a monster checks to you. If you check a monster, the 'toughness' is dependent on its level vs. yours, the 'defense' is dependent on its defense vs. your attack, and the 'evade' is dependent on its evade vs. your accuracy. With higher attack, you will get a better 'center', resulting in better average damage.

[Lyonesse]

I'd stick with your RSE boots and gloves if I were you. Paladins need as much MP as possible and you can afford to sacrifice a few points of defense for +42 MP which is almost a Cure III. Elvaans aren't Humes or Mithra or Tarus and they get a hit to MP so keeping those boots and gloves will put you on course with a Hume PLD's MP. If you're REALLY worried about defense, then get the plate leggings and gauntlets (or I.M. if you want) and rotate in the middle of battle after you've casted your MP load from the RSE. I did that for a LONG time.

The Armet is normally a must for most but I opted out and picked up a Valkryie's Mask instead for myself (Level 43, 16 Defense MP+10, Attack+7) in my efforts to improve my damage and magic casting abilities while keeping my defense as high as possible. That one costed me 210k on Fairy :sweat: Should payoff since I'll be topping out at 180+ attack next level without food.

As for food spending habits, I typically spend 2-3k a party on defense raising items and occasionally a bit more on offensive boosting items. I also end up buying food for other pick up parties too :sweat: I think I've spent more on food than what my Armor is actually worth.

[bakavic]

Currently at 46, I am using the following:

Honor sword
heater shield
2 X sphene ring
2X drone earring
I.M armet
Brigadine
Elvaan Rse gloves/IM gaunts
sandoria cp leggings
IM boots
Earth mantle

As soon as I use up the 24 mp (and no brd or rdm in pt) I'll swap out the rse gaunt for IM gaunt for extra defense.

As for exorays *shudder* they are no joke. Their skills can range anywhere from 50 dmg to 550+ dmg. My machine chugged for a second due to the amount of people hunting around the area, boom, I got hit for 553 dark spore and dropped dead on the spot. Since then, I try to keep my hp over 600 at minimum at all time vs those evil evil shrooms.

PS- Susano, I think you got the steamed and boiled food mixed up. Steamed crayfish/crab are +1 food and they are the one that go for 9k/20k. I dont remember price on boiled crayfish, but I think boiled crab is around 4-5k a stack. Many cooks in my shell would be glad to make them if they are provided the ingredienta/crystals

[Sanhime]

Here's my lv50 setup FYI:

-Full Mythril armor <-- switch between Mythril helmet or Noble Ribbon
-2x phanlanx rings
-2x Pearl Earrings <--that may change
-Wolf +1 Mantle
-Spike Necklace
-RK Shield
-Warrior Belt +1

[Lyonesse]

Oh, if you're fighting mobs that are relatively weak (i.e. not doing insane amounts of damage to you) and you can hold aggro, I'd try a Gsword. I've been using it as an alternative to my regular setup (RS mace or Flame Degen/JM Tuck + Shield) when I know mobs won't be smacking me heavily. Works pretty well for damage. Oh and a plus is that the Royal Swordsman's Blade looks cool on your back. :cool:

[Jaxon]

My current setup at 50..

Tactician Magician Espadon
T.K Army Shield
Full I.M Cuirass set (AF on the way so no need to buy cp stuff)
Holy Phial (going after IM Gorgot and Royal Gaurd Collar)
2 Phalanx rings (gonna get those +3 vit ring at 58)
2 Drone earrings
Switch between Life Belt and RK belt
Cavalier Mantle +1 and Gaia Mantle +1

[Somajan]

Should it be a standard for all Paladins to use the Brigandine at level 45?

And I thought Heater Shields were level 43...

Also, what's a good cape that I could use. I know that at 40 there's a number of options that I could use either now or at a later level (Wolf Mantle, Earth Mantle /+1, Republican Army Mantle.).

And at level 50 should I start out with Phalanx rings? Then move on to Chrysoberyl rings?

Oh yeah current setup (I got my AF1 sword, can't wait to use it!)
Hunting Sword
Kite Shield
IM Armet
Royal Squire's Chainmail (Looks much better on a hume)
IM gauntlets
Royal Squire's Breeches(def from BP and RS is negligable IMO)
IM Sabatons
Tiger Stole (If I needed the extra MND then I would've gotten a justice badge)
2x Sphene Rings

Currently I'm undecided on what earrings I should buy and what backarmor I should use.