Mithra WHM ... severe MP gimp?

[ZenXIII]

I had a party experience yesterday that kinda gave me a reality check about my MP ... and i'm wondering if it is just the party, or if mithra will be a gimp MP wise.
Basically i was in a party that insisted on IT 200+ xp pugils.
I was the only healer, with a 18 BLM/5 WHM (of course he didn't want to spend the time to fully level his sub, so his cure did a mighty 21) and the rest melee, 18 thf no sub; 19 war, no sub; 18 war, sub ONE mnk; 18 sam/9war.
We would pull one, and I would be oom with nearly 1/5 or so pugil HP left ... leaving the finish to be very tight, with 2 of the melee in red and everyone else banged up. This happened on a couple of seperate pulls before I lost my internet and crashed for a few hours...leaving me time to wonder about the situation.
Was this just a fluke b/c of the toughness of the mobs coupled with our level...? (meaning, will 200+ xp mobs be easier later on when we have better skills available for the party, e.g. regen and even later, refresh on the RDM)
Was the NO SUB and no backup healer party dynamic to blame? (meaning, later on, will i be the only healer usually, or will there normally be some backup ... and will party members take the time to level up their sub)
Once i get regen will things be better? (meaning, will my MP last a lot longer b/c i can just slap regen on and let it do some work so I won't have to pitch out spells as feverishly)

I'm kind of at a loss... Should i not enfeeble? I generally throw out a slow/dia/paralyze at the beginning of the fight, but that is 36(?) MP that I am devoid of for curing.
However, it seems when I party with RDM they insist on casting enthunder, but not slow. They'll freely drop an aero, but no paralyse ...
These things help me a lot (i feel) but, would using that MP towards healing be better spent?

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy the game and the party dynamics...but I'm wondering if I will always be a dollar short as a mithra, and perhaps if i seriously want to keep up this WHM thing I should start over as a Taru, or did i get a bad run?
Also, my equip is updated and fairly good for my level..although i don't have Zealots Mitts yet.

[Otaku~gamer]

200 exp pulls is a little to much for valkurm. Unless you have 2 full time healers this isn't possible to do without major downtime.

ZenXIII, honestly... dont worry about your race. It's not what you call GIMP'd.. Its perfectly fine. I believe on the MP factor both hume and mithra are pretty damn close when it comes to it.

Your PT could have easily chained lower lvl monsters for more experience over time than go for the highest possible. This is what ppl don't understand, going for the biggest # in exp isn't always beneficial.

On the enfeeble thing, yes its good that you cast it but sometimes its more important to just save it for cures instead depending on the situation.

So in short:
Mithra is not GIMP when it comes to whm, ive seen elvaan's pull the job off very easily and ONCE, i said ONCE a galka.

[tomc1988t]

oh gee.....i was in a fantismastical (go figure ^^) party today...the mage was what? a mithra!..only whm and it was mithra...she was great!..performed better then most taru whms ive seen....and took a few hits too ^^..u wont have problem as a mithra mage later on....quite alot of mithra mages actually ^_~..dont go for the biggest stuff unless you're not sure....200xp pulls in valkrum is for the best party setups....tell melee to cool it a bit...y'kno and let u all level 1-2 times ..XD


g'luck

[Issaac]

the 200exp monsters will never get "easy". As the lonly healer in a full group fighting flys in Crawlers nest i was mostly low on mana after each fly (Area of Effekt damage). The situation is much much better with a redmage and or a bard around. I never go out with a group without one of these 2.


So, its not you. As a white mage you cant do much "wrong". If everybody survived you did your job. What we can is manage our mana. A good healer will heal less and go out of a fight with more mana then a bad healer. But there are fights where you just dont have a chance to be "good" or "bad". I had fights where i had to spam Cure 3 just to hold everybody alife.

Good groups always have 2 healers (before you can get mana song or redmage refresh, after that you realy need only one).

[Miriamel]

Odin has a recent overload of whm's, so I'm happy about that.. ^_^ Anyway -

Mithra is a perfectly fine race for a white mage. Don't worry, you'll be just dandy. It's always hard to be the only healer in a group, ESPECIALLY if the party insists on chaining ITs. Also, make sure your tank's equipment is up-to-date.. if it's not, his defense will be really low, hence he'll turn out to be a Mana-eating monster.

Anyway, I can pull off my Elvaan whm quite well (without RSE yet, even), despite Taru whm's having about 80-120MP more than me. When it comes down to it, the actual job is a little more important than MP. A lot of MP comes in handy for longer EXP chains, though. ^_^ IF you can actually find mobs to chain.... *cough* Crawlers' Nest *cough*

Since I usually make my own parties now, I never leave without a support healer.. be it another whm, a red mage or even a blm/whm.

[tomc1988t]

for it to be effective..(did last night in the mithras party)...tell the tank to make sure u have around 60% mp b4 they pull...they chain should be there and the run back should give u a bit more time to rest ;) how good the party does is the choice of puller and the choices of the tanks....most whm knows how to do their job and they do it well for most part ^^


p.s.~ ya ive noticed the abundance of whms on odin too..ive had more invited in the past 3 days..then ever O_O..6 levels in 3 days is good!

[Navia]

I don't have any problems with my mp. We get the same amount of mp as humes.

Your party sounded less than optimal with the blm not having their sub up to date to throw an occasional heal.

As far as chaining pugils for 200 its usually a good idea to get a chain started by pulling tough/vt crabs and accumulate TP, then end the chain by pulling a pugil and unloading a good renkei on it and getting over 200xp:spin:.

But hey we are talking valkurm dunes here, most melee aren't that experienced yet :sweat:
The point of ramping up on your kills like this is to give the whm a chance to catch up on MP since only tough/vt stuff doesnt need the full enfeeble workover. This also keeps the xp flow constant - a good puller will get a feel for what the party can handle that will let the mages get more mp back.
Kinda drifted off topic there but the point is, even a taru mage can run out of mp if the puller doesn't know how to pace the party and your tank has crap gear.

Barwater is your friend btw if you mess with pugils, their screwdriver move can be nasty it will save you from seeing the tank 1 shotted or drop into the red.

Subbing summoner my mp pool is like 420 now at level 35 :sweat: More than enough to chain in crawlers nest nonstop and deal with all the extra heals needed if we get a crawler link on rare occasion :o

[Tifa]

if you really want more mp, then take time to get gil for top notch equipment, and take time to obtain your RSE.

as a level 46 white mage, all of my equipment gives me a total boost of +160 MP. with that i become equal to the taru mp (unless theyve got some of the same gear that i do)

heres what ive got equipped:

Blessed Hammer, +10mp
Electrum Hairpin, +25mp
Spirit Torque, +10mp
Enhancing Earring, +5mp
Black Earring, +4mp
Savage Gauntlets (mithra RSE), +16mp
Electrum Ring, +20mp
Electrum Ring, +20mp
Aurora Mantle, +10mp
Adept's Rope, +8mp
Savage Loincloth (mithra RSE), +32mp

it does take a lot of time to get every item you want, but it sure is worth it.

note: most of my equipment is level 40+ required. i recommend taking an extensive look through the auction house in jeuno to see just what kind of items you can equip, and find what gives you the best MP or MND, whichever youre looking for, for the best price.
never hurts to know whats available to you, or what will soon be available to you.

[tomc1988t]

ive realized in that group i was in wit the great mithra in it with me.....i can never use soul eater in a group..and thats a extremly sad thing for me ='( (i wont beable to use it at all till i get trick attack =_=)...so i am mithra mage friendly ^^

[Navia]

Are you saying you can't use soul eater if you don't have a taru whm in your party? :rolleyes:
I had to bitch out a DRK in the party yesterday because they were over using soul eater + beserk, sometimes stacking last resort in there as well, becoming a mana sponge :rolleyes: .
We were doing fine with xp chain #4 at a minimum until he had to show his 'l33t damage' and actually cause us downtime.

This mithra WHM had no problem getting 35-39 yesterday, we aren't gimp at all.
:p

[tomc1988t]

lol ya our "l337 damage" isnt so l337 unless we have those abilitys..and then we cause our whm to hate us with a passion..for killing their mana ='( so i am not leet damageized i only use soul eater and such to sacrifice myself..(going after whm or blm) and i need to get sum quick hate ^^

[Jaggywaggy]

I think mithra like hume make good mages, although taru is the most suitable those 2 do just fine. That partied estup didn't sound like one meant for 200+ kills on pugils. I'm trying to remember what you said but a blm with a poorly leveled WM sub is just plain stupid. A 18 thf with no sub isn't helping the situation. With a sub he could've got monk for boost and better sneak damage, or warrior to 2ndary tank which is quite possible at those levels, I'm a 25thf/12 war currently myself when parting, and only now is it becoming unrealistic. And this is fuzzy but also a mnok with no sub? Had the rest of the party had subs and/or leveled subs you would've been fine. You might find yourself more successful by time you get to qufim, people wise up a little more with each new hunting grounds.

[Michiko]

I can't say that I've ever had any problems with mp running out in a PT. I have come very low if the pt pulled something that was to tough but we do just fine ^^v. Just keep at it. Also that PT you were in definitely sounds like they were pulling something a little to hard for a single healer pt.

[fitz]

okay, here is my take (hume 30whm/24rdm). I rarely find myself strapped for mp, unless my PT decides they want to get the 'uber kill', in which we are taking on stuff way over our head. I've even had my RDM be the primary healer (mostly recently in a Quifm party, and we were XP chaining #4 and #5 on T/VT/IT clippers and pugils) and been fine with mp. Of course what helps to have a good supporting cast around you. Valkurm is hell. sorry. its the first time a lot of people party and people not hacing SJs yet really does gimp you char. You just have to deal with it and do the best you can. Actually i was helping a LS buddy and his PT around lvls 17-19 chain pugils not that long ago. I was going through at least 150 mp per fight, and thats on top of what the taru whm in their party was doing. At lvl 30, 150 mp is about HALF of my mana supply. Now if i wasn't there, even the taru whm wouldn't be able to keep up with them. So don't overplay the race issues here = ]

If you find yourself in a PT where things are kinda chaotic, or you are getting pushed to your limits when you know you shouldn't... take control. As a WHM i always have at least a renkei chart on me and try my best to memorize what element each mob is weak against. Try to set up the fighters and "suggest" renkeis they should be using. Most often then not, people just aren't expereinced to know and will listen once shown something is working better.

Few word of advise (i'm sure some peopel with disagree), bar-elemental spells are your friend, they work tons better then the bar-status spells, so invest in those when you can. Max out your healing magic skill and add +mnd if need to get your cure II at 90 as soon as possible, then once you can cure at max without the +mnd equipment, stash them away and get some +mp equipment. A pet peeve of mine, but when I'm forming parties, if your SJ isn't leveled i WILL NOT invite you to my party. It just shows a lack of caring on your part. So on the same token, i will turn down invites from people who don't have their SJ leveled. This comes more in play at quifim, but its your time you are putting into this game, don't waste it on people that don't care, because often enough, they will be like the BLM mage and won't help you when you need it. Then if someone dies, they will be the first to point a finger at you.

Oh and figure I'll add one last thing. If the BLM refuses to help back up cure, then just don't ever cure him when he gets aggro

= P

taru blms die realllly quick. Call it vindictive, but I only have so much time to put into playing, I don't want to waste it on people who just don't care. Hopefully it will teach him a lesson, but make sure you tell him "i'm not going to cure you since you aren't doing your job", as mean as it sounds, sometimes its what you need to do to get people in this game to listen.

[Mantronic]

blm never get healed even when they do help, mp is presious and they have there share. anyways as a blm they should learn how not to get aggroed period as a whm you have to the same thing learn ok cast cure cure cure2 or later on cure2 cure2 wait wait sneak trick attack divine seal cure 3 or 4. enimity is managed more than mp, if some on in the group is not managing enimity (hate) then that group will have a problem cause keeping the monster in one place is so important.

but back on the subject mithra whm you have more than enough mp, if you feel that your lacking mp invest in juices and food, roasted mushrooms and pies will do fine.... good luck

[Miriamel]

Originally posted by Mantronic
blm never get healed even when they do help, mp is presious and they have there share. anyways as a blm they should learn how not to get aggroed period as a whm you have to the same thing learn ok cast cure cure cure2 or later on cure2 cure2 wait wait sneak trick attack divine seal cure 3 or 4.

In fact, Black Mages are on my heal list right after the main tank. Who will escape you in emergencies if your friendly Black Mage is dead?

It's true that BLMs have to learn how to deal with enmity, but sometimes it just happens and they get the aggro. A White Mage who refuses to heal a Black Mage because they have their own MP is risking to get kicked from my PT.

[ZenXIII]

Ok, i got a few more levels under my belt and after my initial paranoia i've realised that i was smoking crack.
My Mithra WHM is perfectly adequate and actually quite good as a healer.
Seems as though i simply had the unfortunate experience of getting into a crappy party at the time.
You guys are absolutely right on the subject (mithra are great) and I am actually kinda embarassed about freaking out ... patience is a virtue, and obviously i need more.
So, until next time, thanks for all of your input!

[Navia]

Originally posted by Mantronic
blm never get healed even when they do help, mp is presious and they have there share. anyways as a blm they should learn how not to get aggroed period as a whm you have to the same thing learn ok cast cure cure cure2 or later on cure2 cure2 wait wait sneak trick attack divine seal cure 3 or 4. enimity is managed more than mp, if some on in the group is not managing enimity (hate) then that group will have a problem cause keeping the monster in one place is so important.

but back on the subject mithra whm you have more than enough mp, if you feel that your lacking mp invest in juices and food, roasted mushrooms and pies will do fine.... good luck

I heal BLM if they take a beating, but normally they only take 1 hit that is easily patched up by tossing regen on them. They end up sitting on their butt to get mp and not nuke for a short bit anyways, seems like a waste to heal them past 90% hp.

Far too many BLM at take the cue of a WHM healing them to full once they get hate as an invitation to chaincast on the mob, instead of backing the hell down until its provoked off them.
The absolute worst situation is where you pour all your mp into a blm keeping him alive getting the yourself(the whm) tons of hate while the tank slips to #3 on the hate list.

I've never let a BLM die yet, I think its too dangerous to fully heal a mage that never should of taken a hit in the first place, within reason. Normally the RDM or BRD will spot heal a BLM so the WHM can keep their amount of enmity low.

[Miriamel]

*nod* Absolutely right. I didn't mean heal them to 100%, but keep them out of the yellow/orange. ^^'

[Coinspinner]

We have Drain and eventually Regen anyways, I don't want the WHM spending MP on me and building more hate because I was over zealous and took a hit. Now if it hits me two or three times... eep.

[riceburner4540]

if i somehow draw aggro, i stand still like a dumbass, waiting for the tank to regain hate...seems to work fine, most of the time it only goes after me for 1 hit anyway. if it does 2 or 3, i'll be in the orange, which is scary, but plds usually regain aggro after that...after which, i wait a while, throw a cure II and a drain and i'm fine.

[Mantronic]

hmmm let me refrase. i wont heal a blm if he gets aggro but i try not to let anyone is the party die yes anyways my pld normally is the one that drops a cure3 on teh blm and provokes so he makes sure to get aggro back other than that only thing i do for a blm is poisna if he gets poisoned theres no need to worry to much about the blm in a good party.

[Sadeira]

Humes and mithra make perfectly fine mages.
I would that they're a bit more desirable to have in a party than a taru mage. (Yes, let's put my bias aside since I am a hume blm afterall :P) Unlike a taru, a hume/mithra mage won't die in one or two hits. A hume/mithra mage can take a bit of a beating before going down. This is especially important when a situation calls for the use of benediction and may take a bit of time for the melee to pull the hate off of you. At level 40+ there are monsters that can hit you for 100+ damage and if a taru mage pulls aggro and gets hit, they're going to lose a substantial amount of hp. A hume can take a hit better than a taru and a mithra can dodge the hit with their naturally high agi. This is important I think since there's less of a chance of you dying thus allowing you to keep the party alive.

A good hume/mithra mage will spend money on buying mp raising equipment. As a mithra mage, you should focus on raising your mp as much as you can. The bonus from mnd increasing equipment as far as healing goes is fairly negligible since healing has a cap.

In my experience, I have sacrificed myself quite a bit to keep the party alive either as a blm or whm. As a blm, when i use manafont, i only use it to either keep the party alive by throwing out as many cures as I can in 30 seconds or I hit divine seal and curaga to keep the whm from casting benediction or I nuke if the mob has 1/4 or less hp or i cast escape.

If I'm in a good party, I don't mind sacrificing myself so that others can live

[Mantronic]

would that they're a bit more desirable to have in a party than a taru mage


hahahahaha omg hahahahaha

that was the funiest thing i have heard in a while

for the record i am taru whm and in a good party fighting exorays i have taken a few hits but never have i come even close to worried about dying. hehe anyways to my point any race can make a good mage point and simple. as a taru whm if you are fighting something that might hit you for 450 damage and you only have 400 hp you cast stoneskin and blink on you sothat you can take a few hits:spin:

now i will give credit to icemage for that since i did read it here and it pretty much works like a charm. i have at lvl 40 fighting gobs in gusta tunnel benedictions and divine seal curaga2 while fighting a gob that aggroed while our tank was afk the rest of the team killed the gob as fast as possible and i was able to keep blink and stone skin on the entire fight not efficent since it draind my 600mp but i came no where near dying. its all in the player if you have a choice between a good taru whm and a great galkan whm. good whm heals well doesnt let anyone die. great whm has the best possible gear eats foods drinks eithers guess who you would want in your party after you have tried both of them out. bias opinions about race might mean you miss out on a great player :)

[Sasheem]

Heard on my LS by a 45 pally: "I'll take a naked galka WHM who knows what he's doing over a rich taru WHM who's a total idiot."

It's all about mana and hate control. If you can keep everyone alive, and keep them off you, you're a great WHM, no matter anything else. Know your limits, know what works and doesn't.

Next time somebody suggests chaining ITs, tell them that it will be a close battle every time, but you can keep them fully healed if they drop it to chaining toughs. There's a good chance they'll see the wisdom of your ways.

Of course, they might just keep being idiots, too.

[SonikU4ia]

I won't subscribe to the bandwagon of "race" issues.

Any intelligent, bright, and thoughtful player will figure out a way to play any race to the best of its ability, while dashing all the hopes of would be "racsists" into smithereenes.

The equipment exists to overcome any shortcomings your race may have versus whatever that race's supposed weaknesses are.

The tactics exist to overcome any shortcomings your race may have as well.

I have partied with very good galka black mages and very bad ones. I have partied with very good taru white mages and very bad ones. I have partied with very good elvaan rangers and very bad ones.

As far as Mithra being gimped on MP, let me put it to you this way. Throughout the entire time I have played this game (since last October 28th), I have noticed that my MP tends to usually be on average around 100 less than that of a Taru. While 100 MP certainly allows you to do alot, it has never, ever affected my playing style or kept me from finding parties. I have been complemented on numerous occassions for the intelligent way I play my character. Never have I been berated or belittled because I am a Mithra White Mage.

So how bout dem apples?

[Claritin]

In a perfect group.. with a perfect player... under ideal situations.... TARUTARU is king WHM.

In most other circumstances any other WHM is just as good.

TaruTaru do not regen mana any faster than a Hume, Mithra, Elvann, or even a Galka. Therefore if you can keep everyone healed you have done your job.

Where the high mana pool comes into play is chaining.... if you have 100 more mana and you only use about 100 mana a kill... you can do 1 more chain before resting.

But if you get aggro and die in 2 hits on mob #3... well you just cost alot of downtime... and in that case having extra mana was not doing anyone any good... more HP would have been prefered.

The stoneskin/blink argument in my book is silly. If you cast both those spell on you every fight then so can any other race... and if you claim it's because you have more mana... well GREAT... but you just wasted that extra mana on defensive power the other races already had... and even if you used 50 mana instead of 100... WHM need to regen mana... it doesn't grow on trees.... that 50 mana comes with extra downtime.... my HP regens during combat while I am standing.. and even faster when I am sitting to regain MP.... my blink and stoneskin spells do not "regenerate" while I sit... they wear out.

When I first started I was pretty pissed I had so much less mana than a Tarutaru... but as time goes on... I am less jealous.

The only thing a huge mana pool helps you with is chaining more mobs between breaks.... it doesn't help kill harder mobs because if you use 100% taru mana in 1 fight they are very likely to get aggro and die... you can't chain cast your best heal and expect to avoid aggro.

Also what the other people said is true... you had problems due to lack of sub-jobs on your members... and the fact they wanted to go after the "big kills" instead of going for steady kills. They probably didn't have Renkei down right... and had crappy equip also. I have joined groups as a BLK where I had almost the same DEF as the WAR in Valkrum... that is just sad... especially when the WAR decided to go with a 2 handed weapon.. ignoring the benefits of a good shield.

Making sure a party survies is not 100% the job of the WHM
1.) WHM must heal (obvious)
2.) Tank must have high DEF and use shield
3.) RDM or BRD should be assisting in heals and/or debuffs
4.) The offensive part of the party should be doing damage fast and efficiently.. and not taking aggro off the high DEF tank.

So yes... the WHM is the most obvious part of keeping people alive... but you were missing #3 and #4 and maybe even #2. This is not your fault.

Would a melee join a team with no WHM? HELL NO. So why should a WHM join a team without an acceptable tank or enfeebler/back-up healer? They will try to put a guilt trip on you... or make you feel like a jerk... but to be honest they are risking your virtual life and the virtual life of everyone in that party by not thinking ahead and just grabbing random people and a WHM.

Oh and the dude that says he doesn't use Soul-eater in a group any more.... you are a very smart DRK... you are better off doing less damage then being the main tank and sucking up all the mana. Your EXP pool thanks you... as does the EXP pool of everyone you group with. It is very hard to find a DRK with your level of insight... it seems all they want to see is Oooo BIG NUMBA! ME LIKE BIG NUMBA! LOOK ME HIT HARD! ME IS GOOD! They never stop to ponder the fact they just screwed up the whole aggro balance and that aggro balance is 10x more important than how much damage 1 person does.