FFXI bards have nothing on EQ bards...

[Vay]

Im coming form EQ and played a Bard as my main and it was a blast.. just saw everything there is to see in eq, so quit and waiting for eq2 ^.^

For the 6-12 month wait till eq2 comes out I decided to pick up FFXI, since I liked eq and FF games I thought I couldn't lose!~ well i was wrong...


First the disengage and engage thing to fight is a pain its way to linear way of combat vs to what I am use too. Also i can't jump.... swim... climb... or levitate, which saps more of my fun away.... i want to jump over all the short lill tarus when i run around. ><


Then the kicker! you can only have 2 songs on anything!! gay! so they make you run back and forth from group members to give them songs which is a pain in the ass and just not fun. EQ songs stacked up to 4 and the range was a shit load bigger.. so i could do whatever.. and i could sing! didn't need an instrument to be effective, so i could fight... and not just sit there and watch the action... FFXI needs a singing sword or something

Also I have no skills what so ever! In EQ I had skills out the wazuu! Forage, track, safe fall, instill doubt, duel wield, can wear plate armor..cool transforming masks.. had all kinda stuff to play with and look forward too... FFXI .. i get nothing.. NOTHING!!!! nothing to play with... nothing to look forward too but more songs... that are just upgrades to what I already have...EQ had a song EVERY level that was TOTALLY different not more of the same just with a romen numeral after it...my songs upgraded on there own in EQ as I leveled... (might wanna think about that square.. and make alot more diff songs..) I don't even get to use the sorry thing you call a Bard WS

eh sorry for the mess i just typed just had to vent.... oh yeah and another thing, making me lvl to 30 with a class i didnt have fun playing with and couldn't give a rats ass about... what a fucking great idea.... kill that guy

more or less im giving my 2nd choice a try before I cancel my account... Ranger here I come... even though I hear its a bitch to play becuase of the cost..... great... FFXI sucks..great graphics and atmospher though =) also off topic FFX-2 was a dissapointment too... where is my old squaresoft ><

[LiteraryHero]

EQ sux.

[bonovoxpsu]

lol.

ffxi != eq

enjoy.

[Teffie]

FFXI is Not EQ period


If it's so good, just keep playing EQ and leave your rants about FFXI on the EQ Boards. Thank you.

[Deedlit]

Eh, I've heard so many people from EQ complain about how their (or what they THINK is their) "equivalent class" is in FFXI, sucks compared to the EQ class.

Let's get this straight:

EQ Wizard != FFXI BLM
Cleric != WHM
Bard != Bard
Ranger != Ranger
SK != DRK
Pally != PLD
Beastmaster != BST

There are MANY differences - cause otherwise, they'd be the same game. Bards in FFXI do NOT have the same role they had in EQ - they're not soloing maniacs, being able to tank as well as dish out melee damage while singing something. If anything, the jobs in FFXI are much more balanced with each other than in comparison to EQ, where a high level bard with decent AA can go camp western wastes, dragging along a charmed dragon.

Try researching the classes a bit more, maybe you'd like something completely different. Myself, I played a cleric and a shaman in EQ, but always wanted to have a real pet class. Going SMN/WHM lets me get all three, as WHMs are basically clerics + shamans together, and SMN lets me have an awesome selection of pets.

[Vay]

I did do research... but no one knew anything about FFXI bards before it came out when I asked >< lol wished I just read deedlits paragraph 2 months ago =p I also played ranger in eq which was fun but the one in FFXI sounds better! alot better! well unless you had endless quiver and that master archery skill... which i didnt get that high enough lvl to actually be a 'real' ranger by using a bow and all.

Hope the ranger class saves FFXI for me, it sounds awsome... just need an endless quiver skill in FFXI and im set! buying arrows all the time I hear is a pain >< hope its not so much that I need to quit, becuase FFXI society overall is better... well dont pay attention to the asses that posted above deedlit.. but overall on my server and linkshell are great people, just need to find that job that I can enjoy playing...

[allizard]

Originally posted by LiteraryHero
EQ sux.

C'mon.. you have to at least explain why EQ sux.

I too have some frustration with the job ability transitioning from EQ to FFXI. I'm playing a Mnk now and that probably closest to the EQ in terms of damage dealing. EQ Monk rocks. FFXI mnk, cool but you gotta have a decent subjob to make it worthwhile. Then I realized the game mechanics is just different and I've finally accept it.

I hope EQ2 fixed some of the kill steal, camping problems. I'll probably going back to EQ2 when it's ready.

At the mean time, just enjoy FFXI and forget about EQ for a while.

[SeraphTrev]

Is that guy crazy?

Having played a bard in Everquest to 65, I can confirm it's absolute hell to keep four songs twisted every moment of play. My carpal tunnels ache just thinking about it.

[Weezingpipes]

So you liked EQ bards due to the 1 item which kept EQ bards crippled for like 3 years using their epic? Never being able to replace it with anything else? Sounds great...

FF bards are great. They help the party out at all levels, and not with like bullshit ATK songs like in EQ which were really inconsequential. There is actually a lot more thought into playing a FF bard, because unlike EQ where only 4 songs mattered by the time you got 65, FF bards have to manage positioning for songs, decide which combat songs are most useful depending on what you fight, etc.

So if you enjoy the brainless EQ overpowered bard, by all means. I pity anyone still playing EQ, it really is that bad ;p

[Weezingpipes]

Damn you refresh double post!

[Valdaar]

Hehe, boohoo, you can't swarmkite anymore =(

:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

OH WELL! You won't die. Personally, after playing eq for 4 years, FFXI is a good break :biggrin: . Next you'll hear them whining about no selo's....

Go back to EQ. Now. Run! Faster! and Stay there.

[Sylvanis]

Bards in FFXI do NOT have the same role they had in EQ

actually, in group situations they do play the same role. lowering down time, crowd control, and all out support class.

the difference is that in eq:
bards are the worst melee class but were able to still dish out a decent amount of damage.
they could take quite a beating.
they were really good at soloing.
they had a variety of songs.
a lot of the songs were very situational but very useful (speed, invis, float, under water breathing, etc).
eq bards had track and dual wield which are nice abilities :D.
i think ff bards have easier times getting into groups.
ff bards aren't as tedious to play (still are pretty tedious in ff though :P).

FF bards are great. They help the party out at all levels, and not with like bullshit ATK songs like in EQ which were really inconsequential. There is actually a lot more thought into playing a FF bard, because unlike EQ where only 4 songs mattered by the time you got 65, FF bards have to manage positioning for songs, decide which combat songs are most useful depending on what you fight, etc.

i think you got the games switched. in ff, about 95% of the time i'm casting the same two songs on melees. 100% of the time, i'm casting the same two songs on casters. and eq songs had a lot more variety then ff songs do. i mean heck, a lot of the songs in ff i don't think i'll ever use.

[hogarth]

you cant come on FFXI and expect it to be just like EQ otherwise u would be playing EQ called FFXI if you love EQ so much go back and play it :p

[Sylvanis]

So you liked EQ bards due to the 1 item which kept EQ bards crippled for like 3 years using their epic? Never being able to replace it with anything else? Sounds great...

this isn't a really good argument because bards in ffxi can use the same weapon from 17-75. also, the reason why the bard's epic was used so much was because it was so useful.

for those who don't know, in eq you equip your instrument in your main hand. so you either had to choose combat with limited song strength or go all out on songs with instruments with no combat support.

what the bard epic was basically a weapon and instrument combined. grant it that there were better weapons and better instruments out there, but the epic was a good median between the two.

[Dalmonth]

Originally posted by Vay
FFXI bards have nothing on EQ bards...




Then go play EQ, no ones cares

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by allizard


cool but you gotta have a decent subjob to make it worthwhile. .
who doesn't benefit from a subjob though?

[TzaTziki]

if you don't know anything of what you are talking about,, plz just be quiet..
I don't claim to know everything about the bard class in FFXI, but I do in Everquest. And that is why I just had to respond to what people said about the bard class in EQ..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"you got 65, FF bards have to manage positioning for songs, decide which combat songs are most
useful depending on what you fight, etc. So if you enjoy the brainless EQ overpowered bard,
by all means. I pity anyone still playing EQ, it really is that bad ;p "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everquest Bards, are able to have 8 songs memed. and I'm afraid to tell you, that it's nowehere enough.. The bards role in EQ, requiers a lot more then just 8 different songs.
And all the things you stated above, that EQ bards do not have/use,, is wrong.. EQ bards, should do those things, and even more.. I assume you have not even tried to learn some skills in the way of playing the bard class in EQ.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"for those who don't know, in eq you equip your instrument in your main hand. so you either
had to choose combat with limited song strength or go all out on songs with instruments with
no combat support."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can equip instruments in main hand and offhand.. And you don't have to choose if you want to
melee or just sing with an insturment equiped.. You can do both. It's called juggling. you swap
the 2 wepons you have,, to an instrument, before the song pulse has taken effect, and after effect, you
just switch back.. , but then again, I don't know of any bards Juggling wepons/insturments nowdays,
guess they got lazy with their epics ? or just lazy in general..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So if you enjoy the brainless EQ overpowered bard, by all means. I pity anyone still
playing EQ, it really is that bad ;p"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brainless ?, Feel free to keep 3 mobs mezzed (single mez, no ae), and at same time keeping 2 songs on group, and fighting
the MA /main assist/ mob.. this requires a lot of hotkeys, a good keyboard setup, and good FPS skills.
And there are plenty of songs to use,, DMG absorb, Haste,, atk, Cap haste, mana regen,, Resists, resist debuffs.
Pacify, Slow,, Dot, just to mention a few..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Having played a bard in Everquest to 65, I can confirm it's absolute hell to keep
four songs twisted every moment of play. My carpal tunnels ache just thinking about it."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then, the bard class is nothing for you, sorry... Lazy bards should pick a different class.



**

[Baradak]

^^^

Thott, is that you? You forgot to attach a graph. See everything you listed? You just agreed with everyone claiming that EQ bards are overpowered. Out-damage a warrior when they want, out-CC or out-haste/buff an enchanter when needed. Oh boo-hoo that you had to push a few more keys in order to play your overpowered self to the maximum.

[Weezingpipes]

Everquest Bards, are able to have 8 songs memed. and I'm afraid to tell you, that it's nowehere enough.. The bards role in EQ, requiers a lot more then just 8 different songs.

Harmony of Sound, Psalm of Veeshan/Purfying/Elemental Chorus, Rizlona's Call of Flame, and Chorus of Marr were really the only songs that mattered by the end game in EQ. You could have crap like Requiem of Time up (pointless with shamans with slow spears), the meager damage DoT's which were only useful soloing - after all, no one takes a bard for the added 70 DPS or whatever twisting 3 dots with a War Drum of the Rathe (which few people had anyway). Seriously, I had an AFK bard in my old guild who stood around singing chorus on raids, and 2 bards who stood near melees for resists as needed. Harmony of Sound early on, otherwise who cares. So how many songs is that, 6 songs that mattered? 1 slot for Requiem a bard seldom had to use, and the group DA I guess to fill up the slots, but realistically you only did 1 resist song at a time, not all 3, so thats effective 4 songs that mattered.

You can equip instruments in main hand and offhand.. And you don't have to choose if you want to
melee or just sing with an insturment equiped.. You can do both. It's called juggling. you swap
the 2 wepons you have,, to an instrument, before the song pulse has taken effect, and after effect, you
just switch back.. , but then again, I don't know of any bards Juggling wepons/insturments nowdays,
guess they got lazy with their epics ? or just lazy in general..

You must have been one of them folks who quit before Kunark or hell even epics were put in. There were no real instrument upgrades between Kunark and Luclin, the only ones which came out were in PoP, and even then only stuff that mattered was Bard sword, War Drums, and the worn modifiers on assorted equipment. The horn was crap, so was the Lute besides the clicky chorus.

Brainless ?, Feel free to keep 3 mobs mezzed (single mez, no ae), and at same time keeping 2 songs on group, and fighting
the MA /main assist/ mob.. this requires a lot of hotkeys, a good keyboard setup, and good FPS skills.
And there are plenty of songs to use,, DMG absorb, Haste,, atk, Cap haste, mana regen,, Resists, resist debuffs.
Pacify, Slow,, Dot, just to mention a few..

Damage absorb never mattered after Kunark. Woo for 20 damage runes vs monsters who hit for 500+. As for haste, there were clickable Haste items which worked from the inventory and lasted 3 minutes, 3 sec cast time which again, you could do while moving. Resists never mattered in an exp scenario, 15 point damage shields again don't matter on monsters with > 32k hp, and neither did meager DoT damage, which quantified every single exp mob in PoP and raid mobs too. In an exp scenario, slow, rizlonas, chorus of marr, and rarely harmony of sound to mes easier - again 4 useful songs. If you had to mes, you lost 1 of those songs (not slow because it lasted more than 18 seconds if I recall, like 54)- sorry you aren't mezzing 3 mobs while singing 2 songs, game design didn't allow that to happen. That was the downside to a bard, 3 active songs consistantly without question. Anything more was a client side error - server only allowed for 3 truly active effects at once. Whoa sorry guy, I didn't know making hotkeys was hard and was a testament to being a good player. I must have ruled because I had hotkeys too.

Thott, is that you?

Can't be, Thott had reasonably well thought out arguments even if you didn't agree with him, could spell, and could form out complete sentences without a bunch of ,,,, and ... spam you have to sift through to try to make sense of the actual point.

Anyway, in my own experience the FF bard cuts down the carpal tunnelness in comparison to EQ bards due to longer casting times and only 2 effective songs basically. Also in comparison to 4 relevant songs, Madrigals are always good, so is Minuet, haste isn't quite as amazing in my experience but decent none the less, the Hunter's line of songs for Rangers in the party, DEF songs, stat boosting songs mostly played for higher nukes from the BLM from what I've seen, Threnodies are pretty nice for lowering monsters resists to get more effective bursts, and of course the ballads and lullabies and carols. Crowd control is actually a challenge in this game because you can't just overwrite sleep endlessly or it awakens the monster so timing matters more, compared to in EQ where mes wasn't hard at all, just had to cast it before it woke up. Lot of skill in that. And those are just the songs I've seen bards use consistantly. In addition to that, positioning matters a lot more when you risk overlapping melee and caster songs, negating the overall usefulness of a bard. Looks like more than 4 useful songs to me, and from seeing the song line up even by high levels, it still looks like more than 4 useful songs, but I could be wrong of course.

EQ bards just went the way EQ was going - easy to play, no real skill involved, and that mostly applied to all classes simply because content was so easy over time you didn't really have to do a lot to win/be "good".

[Selenitic]

Well the point of buying a new game is to get new things... If you want everything to be like eq, play eq. I think FFXI is a new experience all together which is very refreshing. The bard in the game takes a particular style that is different from eq that you might not like or are cut out to play. I hated the bard in eq yet I play one here... because of the simple fact that they are not the same thing...

Btw i think you came to the wrong place to say that some feature in eq is better than in FFXI, after all this is a FFXI board...

[Lunakat]

Valdaar is right

He is just mad he cant swarm kite :P

I also played eq for 4 years as a bard, and loved the bard...

Cons to FFXI
- no selo's(increased run speed) till lvl 74... still miss selos
- less song diversity than eq
- cant swarm... :P
- lack of invintory slots and BACKPACKS
- no swiming, jumping, levitation...

Pros
- kickass game
- you get a chocobo
- main sub job is a great system.
- YOU GET CUT SCEENS WITH QUESTS!!!!
- cant kill steal, kinda
- better banking system and auction system
- overall higher fun level
- you can use a game pad, good bye carpel tunnel

I enjoy FFXI a lot. I also enjoyed the eq bard. Of course the classes will differ from game to game, honestly I was slightly dissappointed in the FFXI bards but thats why I am not going to play a bard in FFXI.

Over all, I am enjoying the content and questing of FFXI much better. I think we are going to see a lot of good things in the future of FFXI

If you played a bard in eq, try the RDM. I am having fun with it :)

[TzaTziki]

"15 point damage shields again don't matter "

That's 95 DS, with 2 songs, Amp, and voice..

and actually, during PoP bosses,, the bard has the highest DPS among the melees.. *lol* if he is twisting DS songs, that is..


"You could have crap like Requiem of Time up (pointless with shamans with slow spears"


err. what kind of newbie are you *lol*?

ever heard of preslowing a mob ? without aggro ?, ever heard of bards pulling in the game, and preslowing ?, saving cleric mana, on MT,,.. sigh,, you must really been in the low end of skill in Everquest rofl... well, it's kinda pointless to discuss anything, with someone who has no clue about the game.. but guess I will answer yer other stupid messages.




"That was the downside to a bard, 3 active songs consistantly without question. Anything more was a client side error - server only allowed for 3 truly active effects at once. Whoa sorry guy, I didn't know making hotkeys was hard and was a testament to being a good player. I must have ruled because I had hotkeys too.
"
Errr... ever heard of keeping 4 songs on ?.. try this, stop the song before the song has finished casting, and start next one,,, WOW, now you can twist 4 songs, without loosing any,...

"EQ bards just went the way EQ was going - easy to play, no real skill involved, and that mostly applied to all classes simply because content was so easy over time you didn't really have to do a lot to win/be "good"."

Sure, very easy to play, but depending on what skill level you are planning on playing the game on.. you can go afk, whole raids, with just chorus on, same with groups.. , or you can learn to chain pull in exp groups.. not that it's any hard, but I have yet to see any bard, be perfect in it's timing.. *since they lack knowledge of figuring out how long time it will take for the party, to kill the mob, and how long time it will take to pull a new mob to the camp, and the runspeed of the mob, /caster, and so on..
Yes yes,, no skill involved,, LOL ?
Offcours everyone that played a bard at low skill, didnt see any other way to play the bard... but all others, (few) laughed at those skillless bards..

"Woo for 20 damage runes vs monsters who hit for 500"

My point was, there are a varies of different songs.. and it's not 20 dmg rune,, 20 dmg rune, is around level 40, without epic..

it's 120 hp, at level 65, , with lute, 2 twist.. *congratz* of knowing nothing about the game, yet again.

.. ohh, will just add some usefull songs, on raids,/pulling/grouping, that you probably never heard of..
Song of highsun. Kazumi's Note of Preservation . Katta's Song of Sword Dancing (which adds a proc to every party member, which has the effect of lowering targets Dex.. which is VERY usefull against mobs, that flurry, and rampages..* Alenia's Disenchanting Melody " nice to have when you need to debuff, Silence, from mobs.. kinda fun to have a raid wipe out,, because noone of them ws able to cast a heal on the MA..
GL in oldschool PoG *lol*

Kelin's Seven Stringed Lute 2.4 0.6 from PoH Versus 1.8 from epic. WTF are you talking about ? worthless instruments, from the old world ? no, I dont think so.. offhand only, but learn to juggle.

and yes, my english sucks, because its not my main language, so what, come with better arguments, then just flaming my english.. , tell me, how good swedish/german/spanish, do you talk ?

[Weezingpipes]

and actually, during PoP bosses,, the bard has the highest DPS among the melees.. *lol* if he is twisting DS songs, that is..

By that logic encs had the highest DPS because they hasted the entire raid. Makes sense right?

ever heard of preslowing a mob ? without aggro ?, ever heard of bards pulling in the game, and preslowing ?, saving cleric mana, on MT,,.. sigh,, you must really been in the low end of skill in Everquest rofl... well, it's kinda pointless to discuss anything, with someone who has no clue about the game.. but guess I will answer yer other stupid messages.

Sure, still didn't REALLY matter when it just got overwritten 2 seconds later by one of the 4 shamans at the raid mashing their Turgur right click spears until it landed. But for those 2 seconds where no one was actually being hit, you counted. Good going.

Errr... ever heard of keeping 4 songs on ?.. try this, stop the song before the song has finished casting, and start next one,,, WOW, now you can twist 4 songs, without loosing any,...

Do you know the difference between client and server? Clearly not. Yes I've seen 4 songs in the silly little window before. How many are actually active? 3. Yep, client side error vs what is actually registering server side. By the way I really loved those bards who mashed 4 songs constantly even though it wasn't doing anything, because only 3 were ever actually active. I would hope that would click in that tiny euro trash brain of yours, but its a slim hope.

it's 120 hp, at level 65, , with lute, 2 twist.. *congratz* of knowing nothing about the game, yet again.

Its not actually but thanks for trying.

Song of highsun. Kazumi's Note of Preservation . Katta's Song of Sword Dancing (which adds a proc to every party member, which has the effect of lowering targets Dex.. which is VERY usefull against mobs, that flurry, and rampages..* Alenia's Disenchanting Melody " nice to have when you need to debuff, Silence, from mobs.. kinda fun to have a raid wipe out,, because noone of them ws able to cast a heal on the MA..
GL in oldschool PoG *lol*

You mean the highly resisted Highsun that wasn't really needed in pulling if you had a brain? Come on now, anyone who actually played the game knows there was only 1 encounter a bard was needed to pull, and even then its questionable. I mentioned group DA (Kazumi's) which again, you won't need if you play intelligently. Katta's was nice in Luclin, pointless beyond then. There were more useful songs, and on the topic of stat debuffs - hahahahaha. Seriously if you ever parsed out any monster damage, stat debuffs amounted to jack and shit, at best it showed a value which quantified as a margin of error. Slow > everything in melee debuffs. Oh and that kickass party dispel, again only useful in PoG. Anyone ever use it otherwise? Probably not. Just because you have a shit load of songs doesn't actually make them useful. I had Whirl Til You Hurl, imagine how many times I actually used it.

Kelin's Seven Stringed Lute 2.4 0.6 from PoH Versus 1.8 from epic. WTF are you talking about ? worthless instruments, from the old world ? no, I dont think so.. offhand only, but learn to juggle.

You do know instruments don't work on every song type right? I can help you out with more examples of instruments which had such a meager effect on songs it again falls under margin of error in parses. That was part of the problem. A lot of statistical songs really didn't amount to much of a difference in performance, part of the inherant flaw to combat in EQ.

and yes, my english sucks, because its not my main language, so what, come with better arguments, then just flaming my english.. , tell me, how good swedish/german/spanish, do you talk ?

I didn't actually comment on your english speaking proficiency or lack there of. More so a comment on your atrocious sentence structure which leads to very confusing and hard to read statements. Sorry no I don't speak any of those languages. I'm sure you wowed some 14 year old girls in an AOL chat room with that, but it doesn't really impress me. While I'm sure you are still lamenting over the glory days of Kunark like oh so many people, if you had played the game beyond then you would know in the end, 4 songs mattered. You can pretend otherwise but its really not true.

Anyway it is amazing at people getting egotistical over an online gaming character. I thought the point of this thread was a comparison and debate, not for people like this guy to get all smug about an online character class they played. I simply pointed out the flaws in your argument because sadly I do speak from experience - if you actually read anything in this thread instead of the "I know everything fuck you all" attitude without being able to back it up, you might have learned something about that game you are so snide about.

Seriously though, you can't really validly compare the 2 because situations were different. Combat systems were different for example. I just happen to think bards and their 4 relevant songs doesn't really compare to bard design in FF, but thats just my opinion on what is enjoyable versus what is tedious.

[TMPikachu]

It's a little mean callin' the guy euro trash

akin to telling a japanese guy he's a little chink.

[TzaTziki]

-

[Zingy]

Glad to see that last post blank Tzatziki. Weez is just detroying you in this thread.

Saying "lol" 4 times in responce to Weez's post and making his comment "err. what kind of newbie are you *lol*?" is ok tho right TMP? Actually if you look over both Weez's and Tza's posts Tza's have a arrogent tone to them while Weez's are more stating the facts.

[PetriW]

EQ is boring, FFXI is fun.
It's great you can compare the games but I GOD DAMN HAPPY I'm not an EQ bard.
250+ days (250x24 hours) spent playing EQ, 65/250+ paladin and 65/50+ cleric. Took a few hours of FFXI and my EQ accounts were cancelled.

[TzaTziki]

"Glad to see that last post blank Tzatziki. Weez is just detroying you in this thread"

Yep, seeing all the completly wrong facts written by him, I didnt see any point in arguing over something
like that,, instead I will invite him to join me on Luclin ANY day, and I will show him some
stuff that he has never seen before, and then he can go and figure,, if facts, or skills is what
makes a player good..


"Actually if you look over both Weez's and Tza's posts Tza's have a arrogent tone to
them while Weez's are more stating the facts."

"You do know instruments don't work on every song type right? "
"Its not actually but thanks for trying"

come up with a better argument plz,, try it yourself with a lute
in EQ.. and you will be amazed.*

Works on the dmg absorbs ones, pre kunark, and still works. which I was refering too..
so you are wrong, that dmg
absorb would be maxed around 20 dmg..

"You mean the highly resisted Highsun that wasn't really needed in pulling if you had a brain"

*lalalaaa* ever heard of unsplitable mobs, for different reasons `?.. well this song would help you
to be a better puller, gl.. and most PoP bosses, also KT are easily gated with this song..
Highly resisted ? No,,

"who mashed 4 songs constantly even though it wasn't doing anything, because only 3
were ever actually active. I would hope that would click in that tiny euro trash brain of yours,
but its a slim hope."

Once again, stop reading EQdiva. or whatever you are getting this from,, parse it yourself, and you will
see that this is not true.."

"Sure, still didn't REALLY matter when it just got overwritten 2 seconds later by one of
the 4 shamans at the raid mashing their Turgur right click spears until it landed. But for
those 2 seconds where no one was actually being hit, you counted. Good going."

Turgur right click spear,, what item are you talking about ? (spear of fate ?, read your homework
a bit better, and study the effect of the spear, and the casting time, lol..
`and pre incite warrior skills, shamans/enchanters would get nice aggro if they casted slow to early, (unless war had landed/resisted
some proc, which is not that common to happen at the right times.. And yet again talking about, grouping
not raids.. since paladins nowdays tank most preboss mobs,and some boss mobs, (all).

and obvisouly you have never been in a high end zone, where mobs hit for 1400+ for example, in a regular
exp group.. and let me tell you,, that preslowing is sort of nice, for both the cleric, and the tank.
and whoever gets aggro if the tank cant control it*

"and actually, during PoP bosses,, the bard has the highest DPS among the melees.. *lol* if he
is twisting DS songs, that is..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



By that logic encs had the highest DPS because they hasted the entire raid. Makes sense right?"

this really made me laugh,, I don't think enchanter is a melee class ? At least I have never heard
anyone refering them as a melee class, so why would you now compare enchanter to bard, when I was talking
melee dmg ?


And no offcours I don't know everything,, but form reading your posts, I know more then you. so
I thought I would correct a few of those mistakes you wrote..
and since you doubt, my english, and that im right..
Feel free to come over to Luclin, starta level1 char, or whatever. and i can show you some stuff*

[Weezingpipes]

and obvisouly you have never been in a high end zone, where mobs hit for 1400+ for example, in a regular
exp group

You mean plane of water right, the only zone with exp mobs that hit that hard, and only 1 type? Because that clearly covers countless zones. The word you are looking for is obviously, not obvisouly for future reference.

this really made me laugh,, I don't think enchanter is a melee class ? At least I have never heard
anyone refering them as a melee class, so why would you now compare enchanter to bard, when I was talking
melee dmg ?

Since you are obviously too stupid to understand the comparison you mentioned BRD has the highest meleeDPS twisting 2 DS songs right? Here is the problem : its not melee damage, its non melee damage, I mean it even says NON MELEE DAMAGE in the chat log. Since a bard never tanks anyway, the effect isn't relevant to the bard, its relevant to the tank grouped with the bard. Now don't let me hurt your brain too much, but try to follow this : the best haste spell provided what amounted to something like a 40% increase to DPS (or something) ie a beneficial effect which contributes to damage output...similar to a damage shield (beneficial effect) which contributes to damage output. Get it? You probably don't but I tried anyway. And seriously, bards outdamage melee using like epics and shit, try comparing yourself to a melee using bazaar bought weapons even - nope, you don't deal better melee damage then them!

Turgur right click spear,, what item are you talking about ? (spear of fate ?, read your homework
a bit better, and study the effect of the spear, and the casting time, lol..

Time's Antithesis, SHM only drops from Saryrn in Plane of Time with a right click effect of Turgur's Insects, 3 second casting time. If you played beyond Luclin, you would know that since it was one of the most desireable items to be obtained from Time to a raiding guild. Spear of Fate eh? You really are a newb.

I'd respond to the rest, but I'm sure Tza got an AOL chat room he needs to be in and I don't want to take up any more of his clearly precious time. That and trying to sift through that gibberish which pretends to be english makes my brain hurt.

[TzaTziki]

"and actually, during PoP bosses,, the bard has the highest DPS among the melees.. *lol* if he is twisting DS songs, that is.."

this is what I wrote, and I belive it means that bards has the highest dps among the melees ? NOT highest melee dmg.. so plz read more carefully, thanks!

Anyways, I'm out, this is getting way to boring...

[Weezingpipes]

Bard also has the highest DPS of anyone swarm kiting 40 guards in halls of honor - is that relevant to a bards role in a party or raid? Didn't think so.

Thanks for not acknowledging you were wrong. <3

[Akacha]

:zzz: comparing 2 games is way stupid :zzz:

back to work now :dead:

[TzaTziki]

I was comparing EQ with EQ...

see u later mer :)

[Thingol]

THe silliest thing I find about comparing these is you are comparing a 4 year old game (which BTW started the gandra.. Ultima nonwithstanding) with a year old game. You may like the way bards are set up more in this game but to simply say EQ sucks is assinine. Granted, over time it has been geared towards high level players but then again, FFXI is geared towards JP players (Try hunting a moderatly popular NM and way it isn't when it pops claimed due to server lag... NA players are, adn will be at a disadvantage till NA based servers come out). Case and point. EQ is a far more developed game for better or wors. Furthermore before you go and compatre a 4 year old game to a 1year old game.. why don't you hold your judgement till EQ 2 comes out...

[Weezingpipes]

THe silliest thing I find about comparing these is you are comparing a 4 year old game (which BTW started the gandra.. Ultima nonwithstanding) with a year old game. You may like the way bards are set up more in this game but to simply say EQ sucks is assinine. Granted, over time it has been geared towards high level players but then again, FFXI is geared towards JP players (Try hunting a moderatly popular NM and way it isn't when it pops claimed due to server lag... NA players are, adn will be at a disadvantage till NA based servers come out). Case and point. EQ is a far more developed game for better or wors. Furthermore before you go and compatre a 4 year old game to a 1year old game.. why don't you hold your judgement till EQ 2 comes out...

I say EQ sucks because it does suck. It is constantly riddled with broken content, constant class imbalances, and the only solutions they come up with are placating to the class pool who whines the loudest. Combat is simplistic and uninteresting, and encounters over time have simply become dull. Even new ones are just uninspired rehashings, or are so grossly untuned they don't even belong in the game. To say EQ is far more developed is bullshit - 70% of that game is unused content, or simply lacking in content more often than not. They could remove over 40 zones and it would have 0 impact on the game because no one goes there anyway. What I see every day in FF is ALL content is consumed at one point or another, and there really are no worthless zones that are simply taking up space.

What confuses me is saying that over time EQ was geared towards high level players as though it was a bad thing. If anything that is where the majority of the problems existed. There comes a time in games like these when you got the levels, the extra whatever it is (AA in EQ for example), then what do you do? You need new and interesting content. Why? Because the people at this level of the game are probably your longest customers, and are likely to keep playing where as joe blow level 30 dies somewhere stupid a lot and quits. It is common sense to want to keep your existing customer base happy which unfortunately SOE forgot over time. I also fail to see how FF is geared towards japanese players exactly. The server timing issue is largely unrelated to content of the game and is a seperate problem anyway. The only thing I agree on is there needs to be NA servers for more reasons than just server timing.

Having played EQ for about 4 years, here is what I can say about it : leveling is a chore, it was never actually fun or challenging or really satisfying, it was just a means to an end. The quests were really uninteresting and were really not memorable, the only thing that mattered was the loot. I mean I really had no clue what the story line was in my characters epic quest years ago because it was completely uninteresting and loosely tied together in a really stupid way - I could sum it up with "mash these 4 sticks together to make this staff" because the NPC might as well have said that. While the standard quests in FF are mostly filler storylines that are largely irrelevant and basic (although the advanced job quests have a few interesting story lines), the missions are quite interesting, and the AF quests for example have pretty nifty storylines which all amounts to a more memorable and enjoyable play experience. The tradeskill system in EQ was hugely flawed in that no skill could create anything good under 200 skill (ie anything good means shit people would actually want to buy or use), whereas the craft system in FF ties in well with the level restrictions on items, crafting doesn't take nearly the time investment to get high skill just having the materials, and you can break down lower skill products into material components to use in other recipes. The timesinks don't even compare either, one is bearable, another is needlessly eating away at hours just for the sake of eating away at time.

If you are holding your breath for EQ 2, prepare for disappointment.

[Akacha]

Bah EQ is fun when i go bersek on my guild :angel:
Actually playing FF makes me enjoy EQ again, they complete each other nicely for me

:)

[Tekktrina]

Well to add to this discussion a small bit...

I also played a Bard on EQ but only up to lvl 35 I believe it was. I do have to say the original poster hit a bit on a valid point in that in EQ I think as a bard you maybe had a bit more... "Cool things to play with" type thing.

I have only played a FFXI bard to 13 as of right now and am enjoying it. But I do recall from a few years ago my EQ bard seemed ot have a bit more variety. I think the biggest thing though I remember was my EQ bard around lvl 30 got the Charm song and I was at level 32 or so able to solo Hill Giants by making 2 of them fight. It was a feat that no other profession could do at that level and was one thing that gave bards a pretty mighty reputation if you were good enough to do it right.

Also Selos was a big deal. I really wish we had some low level run speed song like a level 20 or so song maybe.

Both games have Bards as a bit of a crowd control class so that is similar. Also both games have the HP/MP regen thigns going on so again that is similar.

I also think EQ obviously has many more toys in regards to weapons, masks etc etc but then again the game is older then my youngest son, hehe.

I think the thing I like right now though most about the FFX version of a bard is that the ability to have a sub job and for instance cast WHM spells is a very nice trade off for some of the things that we dont have from EQ.

The EQ bard couldnt flat out cast heals or other enfeebling type spells. Thats a very nice addition. Overall I think it probably balances out. Hell if you want the charming abilities of the EQ bard play a Bard/Beastmaster or something hehe.

Anyway...just my random comments.

[guz_rdm]

Wow, weezing pipes.... I played EQ roughly 4 years, myself, and everything said perfectly sums up my experience. Great post. I'm sure many of the end game players would agree. Seriously, nice post.

BRD 31 WHM 20 RDM 31 BLM 33

[Oluohoo]

Last I checked FFXI is not EQ, get over it :zzz:

Btw, the JP players only see things about 2-5 seconds before NA players, not that big of a deal.

[Quezi]

Everyone shush and dont talk untill youv tried twisting charm, ablative, and power song, while being the only CC, and meleeing and nukeing at the same time! Minst in daoc where hard if you cared to try and squeeze all that out of them. I had 3 pages of primary macros as i had to hit them in various orders to keep things from falling apart. Then i had macros to change my macros! Constantly switching between three equipment setups..


Granted most minst would just stand around with power song on doing minor cc and every once in a wile shouting a dd or a stun to save the casters from getting pounded on untill a melee could taunt, and thats what i did for the most part. But me and my friend liked to duo, and when your duoing and trying to take out epic mobs with just the two of you, every single bit of extra anything helps alot. We triod both our epic quests, took out the iron guardian as a duo.. well blah the only thing that really ever gave us trouble was mordrid. One time we took a keep with just three people=p Minst pally and arms, no wierd assassin wall climbing, no tricks. We beat down the door, cleared the archers, and took out the lord with just the three of us, full frontal assault, no pansy crap=P

PS, ultima wasnt the only mmorpg prior to EQ, there where plenty of 'graphical MUDs' as i like to call them before that=P And really compared to some of them eq isnt that great, really EQ had the best advertiseing department, infact before eq most mmorpgs didint advertise AT ALL=P I dont dislike eq tho, it was fun when it started, it was just how it ended up that sucked.