Refresh II / III ?

[Zempten]

I read this on another boards and it makes common sense for us to get another higher level of refresh with the WHM's regen II / III and raise II/III and protect II/III/IV and on and on.

So why is it that we do not get a refresh II at like level 60 or 70 or 75 since by then people have tons of tons of MP that would be hard to actually "refresh" with a 3 MP for 5 seconds ( I think it's 5 seconds )

[Xyphere]

It would make sense =/

[Jei]

look at what a 70rdm can already do right now with refresh 1 and i doubt if SE will ever give us refresh 2. will be nice to have one tho... refresh 1 just isn't quite enough for party at 70 anymore

[Zio]

yeah that would be nice. i dont have refresh yet but i have seen it in action in a 60 rdm taru and if u compare it to all the mp u waste...its nothing. we also need SE to give us advanced types to our other magics...u know, dia III, IV, Gravity II, diaga II, stoneskin II....(im not sure if some of those already exist as im still low lvl and hvent researched much yet). i only can see that our exclusive magics r pretty restricted...and phalanx is just so damn expensive! i could afford dispel with some effort....but ill never be able to buy phalanx

[Plenum]

Refresh II/III thats just wicked. I mean... It kinda sucks for us RDM becasue we don't have alot of "Special" Our Magic Only... WHM have tons like Rasie II/III...Protect IV... Reraise... Curga... alot of -ra spells. BLM too they have... Rasp, Choke, Drown, Tractor, -ga spells. Bards have Ballad, Paeon, Mardigal... We should get More RDM only spells...I mean i know we have en- spells and some other spells.. But I mean I would Really like Refresh II/III i mean.. wheres the love for the RDM. If WHM gets have Refresh too someday We should have II/III ^^

[6souls]

Originally posted by Zio
we also need SE to give us advanced types to our other magics...u know, dia III, IV, Gravity II, diaga II, stoneskin II....(im not sure if some of those already exist as im still low lvl and hvent researched much yet).

lvl 45 - Diaga 2
lvl 61 - Dia 3

[Arli]

an upgrade of the Refresh spell would be really, really nice, especially since we didn't really get much in the new patch. I know that alot of the RDMs who have been here for a while say RDMs already got a ton of stuff, making them a very important part of a team.

I for one agree, but I think we need a little more love at the higher levels. I would love to see a RDM only nuke. BLM obviously have the ancient spells, and WHM get Banish and later, Holy. RDMs get nothing. I'd love to see a nice short term massive damage over time, like an upgrade to Gravity. Maybe Graviton? 100 damage/sec for 10 seconds recast time 90 seconds?

Another improvement i'd like to see is our 1H sword skill bumped up to B+ or A- with access to the EX WS. I for one remember enjoying being able to contribute to a battle with blade as well as sorcery. I can dig us not doing as much damage as a WAR, but the melee damage we do at 40+ is pathetic. My LS WHM has better defense with holy breastplate and does more damage with his hammer because they get club as a B+ weapon.

I'd like to see the RDM develop into more of a support mage with sword specialty.

I don't mean to sound unreasonable, I love the class, but consider this my wishlist for RDM for 2004.

[Apple Pie]

Rather than having Refresh II, I hope the amount of MP recovered by Refresh is skill dependent. For example,

Enhancing magic skill:

120(LV41): 3MP/3sec, 150MP in 150sec
160(LV53): 4MP/3sec, 200MP in 150sec
200(LV62): 5MP/3sec, 250MP in 150sec
240(LV72): 6MP/3sec, 300Mp in 150sec

Then, having RDM only spells is good, especially among Enfeebling and Enhancing ones.

However, I'm against the fact that we should have A for one-handed sword or RDM EX WS. It simply makes us overpowered and we may even see the PT consisting of 6 RDMs in the future. I'm afraid if it's not something Square ENIX wants.

[Wafflesrevenge]

is there a Refreshga? that would seem to make the most sense...

[Plenum]

Wafflesrevenge is there a Refreshga? that would seem to make the most sense...

hah that does sound good and what Apple Pie suggests too. I just want the RDM's Mana Regen ability to be uber and a ... one of those things like.. for a whm " I love whm becasue of curga" or "I love blm casue they can nuke" ... i want ours to be "I love rdm becasue of mana regen!"

[PTT]

Originally posted by Apple Pie
and we may even see the PT consisting of 6 RDMs in the future. I'm afraid if it's not something Square ENIX wants.

Hey, it worked in FF1, with 4. ^^

[Wafflesrevenge]

Hey, it worked in FF1, with 4. ^^

Old skool!

[Apple Pie]

Then, we don't need fighters anymore and we'll see more and more of them waiting for hours or even days in Jeuno ?R(;?L„t?M)ƒm

[Silverquick]

Here are some things I thought of right off the top of my head on another post.

Well One thing that might help outside the Refresh upgrade would be stronger and more improved versions of the Debuffs that are Rdm only.

Maybe a Gravity II that drops opponent evasion by 10% and does damage. Or the spell Demi, like in FF3/6. That when used dropped the opponents Hps by 25%. All of which could be Rdm Only.

These are just some Ideas of course, and at this time assuming the Level caps remain the same, we really don't need anything.

[Discordian]

I think something that S-E needs to work on are Earings that may actually do something to my benifit. The only ones I see in the AH give INT+1 and are way too expensive for their own good. Yes some more rdm only spells would be good. B+ sword skill would be nice.

Anyway however it pans out I'm still loving rdm.

[Zempten]

I have to agree with the Refreshga ( PT refresh ). I can handle casting Refresh on everyone that needs it but it can become tedious after your in a PT for 3 - 5 hours.

The MP regen based on Enhancing would be very nice as well.

RDM only spells:
Phalax
Dispel
Gravity
Refresh

Am I missing any? I'm unsure about the en line of spells. I think it was RDM and WHM if I remeber correctly, then again I have bad memory ^^. Anyways, just 4 class specified spells seems kinda low? Doesn't it?

I know that there is some sort of item that puts a worn Refresh on mages ( I think it is Vermillion's Clock? or something like that ). So I suppose since refresh can be stacked on worn refresh then it is okay ( 6 MP 3 seconds then ). So this might be the reason why SE won't give us Refresh II, but hey we could always try telling SE about this idea, I'm sure we aren't the only ones

Yeah, and I wouldn't mind seeing some more special RDM spells.

Either way I'll still be a RDM for life

{edit} SOrry I just realized the vermillion clock is a 1 MP / 3 second regen thing.

[Atma]

I'd like to see Refreshga, Enlight and Endark, Stop, Petrify, and Paralyze II.

[Elrundir]

I pretty much agree with Atma, actually. ^^ I'd also like to see the En- spells slightly modified in the next patch... I mean, it'd be nice if they could be cast on others, wouldn't it? Then we'd have another unique spell, like Refresh, that the other party members (this time the melees) would love us for!

[Masaharu]

The spells I'd like to see most are Enlight, Endark and Refreshga.

I noticed WHM and BLM having "-Seal" abilities, so it'd be interesting if one was added to RDM as well. Maybe something like Temporal Seal - next cast spell has its cast time reduced to 0, so basically like a mini-2hr ability.

[Plenum]

You know I thought about that Refreshga thing, but think aobut this, if we had refreshga wouldnt that completely render the bard usless, i mean they are pretty useful to mages for ballad's, and yes i am aware they are important buffers as well, but if we had refreshga, that would take away that magical twinkle we see in a bards eye :sweat: , but you know that refresh 2 and 3 does sound logical, i mean we should be the ones know for mp regen, after all we should be able to regen more mp than a BARD, i mean come guys, bards? *pfft* HAH~ just playing~ =] I love bards but my heart belongs to all the RDM out there.(dont call me narrrow minded~!) I love Red Mages, you, know a personal story: When i started to level my theif... it was the WORST thing EVER, =[ i missed my rdm so much... anyways on a ligther note, does anyone know how much 1 sandy carrot costs if they have hero fame? thanks guys~ wait this isnt a gil related post 0_0;;;

[Citidreamia]

What about a few warp spells too? I would love to be able to warp.

[Plenum]

You know I wish rdm had alot of stuff but like Jei said, we are already really good as it is, and i have to agree, were like on the edge of being too good as a class, i think add any more muslce to our class and we'll out weigh the rest of th eother classes giving us an unfair advantage ( and unfair advantage would be "unfair" to their point of view, but perfectly fine to us^^). So i think we wont get any spells ... but i really do wish the spells we already have, should be like upgraded. into like rdm only spells, like all the whm spells should have a twist on them if a rdm casts it and all the blm should have a rdm signature on them if we cast it but you know, you win some you loose some and you never really get what you want lol ^^:thumbsup: :dead: :dead: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:

[Iiowyn]

I would like a refresh II only in a few circumstances:

1) If the level cap goes over 80 and people get refresh as a sub
2) If bards ever get to use Ballad III (it is in the game files, try doing
/ma "Mage's Ballad III" <me>)

Iiowyn

PS However refreshga would be a nice thing to have ^^

[Discordian]

Whitemages get Divine Seal at level 15, blackmages get elemental seal at level 15. However we wait that long haul to level 40 to get Convert. Trust me, if a whitemage could have that as a main or a subsub, they'd kill for it. The reason convert is at level 40 is to maintain balance since there is no level 80/40 cap yet you can't use it as a subjob.

Our ability is very cool, just takes awhile to use it. 10:00 cooldown compaired to 15:00 with the others.

[Zempten]

Hm....... this might sound a bit interesting

Over in the summoners section I read about a new avatar called Fenir - looks like a purple wolf. I THINK ( notice the "think" being capitalized) that I read somewhere that Fenir will get the Blood Pact ability of Refreshga.

IF ( notice the capitalization of "if" ) this is true, will this make us RDM useless? I mean blood pact has a recast time of 1 minute and when your in the PT with a WHM, BLM, PAL, and yourself. Being able to Refreshga seems very very useful.

I'm not entirely sure if I read this right but I'm going to reread it to make sure

{EDIT} Okay I can't find where I saw that he Fenir would get Refreshga, so I guess it's not that big of a deal.

[Discordian]

Even if it did happen. There arn't a lot of level 50 summoners around. Even if that happened today I would be halfway in the 60's and would still be in demand. There's more melees than mages afterall.

[Icemage]

(1) There are a lot of RDM-specific spells, you just don't think of them as RDM-specific most of the time:

Enthunder
Enstone
Enblizzard
Enwater
Enfire
Enaero
Barthunder
Barstone
Barblizzard
Barwater
Barfire
Baraero
Barpoison
Barparalyze
Barsleep
Barblind
Barpetify
Barvirus
Gravity
Refresh
Phalanx
Dispel

(2) Refreshga wouldn't be all that bad if it were a level 60+ spell that cost, say, 120MP. Right now, I think RDM, while being a challenge to play, are also pointlessly tedious with respect to timing Refresh.

(3) I'd personally like to see RDM get some more powerful enfeebling magic. Slow II(level ~50) would be very nice to see as a RDM-specific spell, as would Gravity II(level ~60).

(4) Another thing that would be interesting would be an RDM spell that slowly boosts TP. Call it something like Heroism:

Example

Heroism I: RDM30, MP: 30
Duration: 5 minutes
Effect: Adds 1% TP/3 seconds to target's TP

Heroism II: RDM60, MP: 75
Duration: 3 minutes
Effect: Adds 2% TP/3 seconds to target's TP

...or something along those lines.


Icemage

[ClydeArrowny]

Me thinks TP up spell would turn thf into the new drk of invites pre yoko nerf >.> Thf dmg limited to once a min....I can usually get 100% TP in 60 seconds...this would just make melee besides thf more viable imo ; ;

[tdh]

It seems, almost as a rule, I agree in entirety with everything Icemage posts. And after reading his last past, I love his ideas.

I would love to have Slow II, and Gravity II, but I really think Time Mage will be one of the added job classes and think those spells will be made more for a Time Mage. (The only think ~bad~ with Time Mage being added, RDM will lose some of it's RDM-only spells.)

But the Heroism idea is great. I like that idea a lot. That would make RDM even more popular.

Plenum, I don't think giving RDM Refreshga will really effect BRD at all. Because it would stack with Ballads. Giving a higher Refresh rate. Parties would insist on a BRD and a RDM at all times.

Though I completely agree that Refreshga should be a high level spell. Lv60 or higher. Lv55 for Refresh II. (I really think we needed a second level to this. Hell, BRDs get a Lv2 Ballad, why can't we have a Lv2 Refresh?)

[Karinya]

Originally posted by Apple Pie
Then, we don't need fighters anymore and we'll see more and more of them waiting for hours or even days in Jeuno ?R(;?L„t?M)ƒm

I don't think that's really true. B- skill is only one of many reasons RDM melee is below that of WAR, MNK, DRK, DRG, SAM.

RDM don't have the dex to hit often like DRG (with their accuracy up trait) or the str to hit hard like DRK. We have to cast spells, delaying our swings and reducing overall damage and TP accumulation. We have to sit for MP, taking away TP and the ability to participate in skillchains. We don't have abilities like Berserk, Last Resort, Sneak Attack, and Boost to increase our damage. We often have mage subs making most of these problems worse (it makes sitting less bad through Clear Mind, but all the others become worse).

We can't use a lot of high level high damage weapons. No other damage dealing job uses any kind of 1H sword regularly, regardless of their skill in it; only PLD use it and they don't care that much about damage. 1H swords just don't do as much damage as axe or any 2H weapon.

RDM will never take the place of frontline melee (or vice versa). We don't do as much damage as jobs that are built to do damage in melee - and we shouldn't. We have many other abilities to contribute to a party that MNK, DRG, SAM, THF don't. (DRK have other abilities than melee but don't use them often.)

But it would be possible for RDM to contribute *some* damage (especially with our physical defense ignoring En spells) if we had the skill to hit often enough. Currently many RDM (and not just tarutaru) prefer to stand back away from the goblin bombs rather than melee at all. That's the part I don't like. Why can't RDM have even *half* the damage output of a damage dealing job?

We nuke for less than a BLM, but that doesn't mean we can't nuke at all, or shouldn't nuke at all if the party has a BLM. We heal for less than a WHM, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't heal at all if the party has a WHM. So why do so many people say we shouldn't melee at all because we're not as good at it as other jobs?

One more thing: if there are too many people of the same job waiting for party, maybe they should try another job. There's no restriction on how many you can have.

[ClydeArrowny]

In my PT last night the taru rdm was hitting for about 14 dmg a hit WHEN he hit and doing about 20-26 dmg a hit with en-ice. Considering he was attacking at a good rate with a low delay 1h sword, if he had hit with higher accuracy due to a higher skill in 1h sword, he could have done some decent damage.

RDM don't have the dex to hit often like DRG
At higher levels dex hardly does anything for hit rate....I myself (as thf) have 2 sets of equips...one for dex/agi to boost fuidama dmg and the other with accuracy up so I can hit most of the time. My dex+23 is nice for fuidama, but accuracy up is much better for hit rate. The skill you have in a weapon is the main base for accuracy.

We often have mage subs making most of these problems worse (it makes sitting less bad through Clear Mind, but all the others become worse).
If rdm had increased sword skill you could have rdm's with different subs to complement the PT. Some sub drk or war...some sub mages.

Another thing that would be interesting would be an RDM spell that slowly boosts TP. Call it something like Heroism:
Like I stated before, this song would kill thf....post yoko we are used more for dmg than for hate placement...which is limited due to fuidama 1 min recharge. Only time thf might still be needed is if you have a PT with a rng shooting high dmg sidewinders, but lv60 drk/thf could replace thf easily in a PT with a rng. I make my own PTs so this wouldn't ruin my invites, however I wouldn't want to play a job that sucks because I'd be dragging the exp of other players down

Personally I don't see any reason for rdm to be strengthened. They are already great PT members and along with brd, they are the first I look for when making a PT. First thing I do when I make a PT is /sea all ##-## rdm and /sea all ##-## brd. Last night there was no brd and I didn't have too much time to wait around so I got 2 rdm. Would have been a great PT if I hadn't invited a gimp pld, but still got 10k exp throughout the PT ^.~

[Zempten]

I've been thinking on this and I was wondering is there any way we can tell SE how we feel about certain issues in the game? Like in this case a Refresh II/ III or an Refresh that becomes more powerful as enhancing magic increases? I was just hoping perhaps with the majority of the RDMs in FFXI we might be able to get something done about it.

[pdac]

If there are any changes, I'd vote for a small increase in sword skill, a questable ws and a few spells. Namely, Paralyze II, Slow II, Gravity II, Heroism (high-level only, and even then it should be BCNM only), Refresh II (level 60+) and the Graviton idea is also good, though maybe somewhat overpowered. Maybe it lowers evasion immensly? Or something that slams the stats of a target overall?

Otherwise, now that I have refresh, RDM seems to be even more important than before ^^v - and I looooove my convert!

[Edit]

One idea I was tossing around was actually creating an entirely new class of weapons - "Rapier"

Think about it, other classes would get it too, but we would have the A+ or whatever in it. Lower damage, lower delay, stat-boosting. Tailored sort of to the red mage, but usable by other classes who may want the stat boosts that rapiers would have. And the icing on the cake: weapon skills. How about ws' that are stat-reducers/minor-damagers?

"Gravity-Blade" - critical hit and lowers evasion - lvl 10
"Inferno Slice" - fire damage and lowers resistance to another element (lightning? water? etc) - lvl 30
"Typhoon" water damage and lowers resistance to fire - lvl 70
"Crippling Blow" - double hit and reduces targets hp/mp - lvl 100
"Skyblade" - deals large wind damage and lowers resistance to wind - lvl 150+?
"Crimson Crash" - critical area strike, reduces all targets stats significantly - lvl 200+ (hey, that would make an awesome spell!)

You get the idea.

These wouldn't necessarily make us meleers, but would provide a decent benefit *should we melee*. If we have to get up close and personal, at least we can do something useful then.

I don't want us to become frontline fighters, but at least our assitance would do some good. ^^

[Altruist]

We definitely need some more or better enfeebles, and another refresh would help, Dia III would be nice.

[tnt118]

As a bard who is currently being upstaged by RDM at my level (mid-40's, GRRRR!) I'm hesitant to want to see any improvements to the class. :biggrin:

Seriously though, most of the things in this thread do sound pretty good and logical. I'm very curious if we are ever able to have a level 40 sub, what that's going to do to the game..

[Synbios]

Originally posted by Silverquick
Here are some things I thought of right off the top of my head on another post.

Well One thing that might help outside the Refresh upgrade would be stronger and more improved versions of the Debuffs that are Rdm only.

Maybe a Gravity II that drops opponent evasion by 10% and does damage. Or the spell Demi, like in FF3/6. That when used dropped the opponents Hps by 25%. All of which could be Rdm Only.

These are just some Ideas of course, and at this time assuming the Level caps remain the same, we really don't need anything. One thing about Demi and Stop kind of spells, they are insanely inbalanced. If they were implemented, a 75RDM/DRK can solo any HNM they want, blah, Chainspell Demi Stun Demi Stun Demi yadayada Stop Convert Cure IV Cure IV Demi Stun whatevercrapspells. Pwned. Then again, there may already be 75RDM/DRK soloing BC30 pots with chain stunning.

[Karinya]

Originally posted by Synbios
One thing about Demi and Stop kind of spells, they are insanely inbalanced. If they were implemented, a 75RDM/DRK can solo any HNM they want, blah, Chainspell Demi Stun Demi Stun Demi yadayada Stop Convert Cure IV Cure IV Demi Stun whatevercrapspells. Pwned. Then again, there may already be 75RDM/DRK soloing BC30 pots with chain stunning. I don't think that would work. Even if Demi had a good success rate on ITs from exp parties, HNMs would probably still resist it pretty often. Stun and Stop too.

Furthermore, RDM wouldn't even get those spells - they're hypothetical spells for *time mage* if it is introduced. TIM don't have Chainspell, and RDM/TIM probably wouldn't have Demi if it existed at all (it would be made too high level to use as a sub). And they couldn't get both Stun and Stop. Also, Chainspell wears off in 30 sec - not really enough time to kill anything really challenging. RDM are unlikely to kill anything much by unloading all their MP as nukes, even if we Convert and do it again.

There's no reason Stop (or Petrify) would be any more imbalanced than Stun, which is fine IMO. Demi is more problematic, but I don't think TIM would need it to be a viable class - if they get Hastega, Slow II, Haste II, the travel spells, some good job traits/abilities in addition to getting some of the "borrowed" time mage spells (existing Haste/Slow, Teleports, Warp, Escape, Gravity) earlier than the jobs that have them now, they would have a role in a party.


To return to the subject - RDM don't get anything from 71-75, AFAIK (except for things you get through your sub, like Teleports). The only WHM/BLM spell we *would* have gotten was Cure V, which was specifically banned from us. I like the idea of Refresh II, or Apple Pie's idea of making Refresh mp restoration and/or duration dependent on Enhancing Magic skill. And how about doing the same thing for Regen, too, while they're at it - if they're not going to give Enhancing spells (Regen II/III) to a job that is better at Enhancing magic than WHM, they can at least let the Enhancing skill count for something.

I do have an idea for a new Enfeeble though - Vertigo, increases the chance that characters attacking the affected monster will score critical hits, and lowers evasion (cumulative with Gravity). High level players are always complaining about how they don't hit enough with millions of gil of +acc gear, double Madrigal, Shield Break and Gravity.

[Deodorant]

The one thing I really don't like about rdm is the lack of good WS's.

In lvl up parties this point is moot, because we get enough tp to do a WS maybe once every hour.

While farming, or doing other dumb stuff like genkai, etc, I find that my most damaging WS is fast blade. Burning, Flat, Shining and Circle blade all do gimp damage. Spirits Within does decent, but by the time you get 300% tp you could have fired off 3 fast blades for more damage.

Vorpal blade is awesome ... but I need to sub war pld or drk (and thus, there is no vorpal while farming due to the need to sub thf). Lvl 69 I will "learn" swift blade, but it's pld SP, so I'm stuck with fast blade all the way til Savage Blade at lvl 73.

[Synbios]

Originally posted by Karinya
I don't think that would work. Even if Demi had a good success rate on ITs from exp parties, HNMs would probably still resist it pretty often. Stun and Stop too.

Furthermore, RDM wouldn't even get those spells - they're hypothetical spells for *time mage* if it is introduced. TIM don't have Chainspell, and RDM/TIM probably wouldn't have Demi if it existed at all (it would be made too high level to use as a sub). And they couldn't get both Stun and Stop. Also, Chainspell wears off in 30 sec - not really enough time to kill anything really challenging. RDM are unlikely to kill anything much by unloading all their MP as nukes, even if we Convert and do it again.

There's no reason Stop (or Petrify) would be any more imbalanced than Stun, which is fine IMO. Demi is more problematic, but I don't think TIM would need it to be a viable class - if they get Hastega, Slow II, Haste II, the travel spells, some good job traits/abilities in addition to getting some of the "borrowed" time mage spells (existing Haste/Slow, Teleports, Warp, Escape, Gravity) earlier than the jobs that have them now, they would have a role in a party.


To return to the subject - RDM don't get anything from 71-75, AFAIK (except for things you get through your sub, like Teleports). The only WHM/BLM spell we *would* have gotten was Cure V, which was specifically banned from us. I like the idea of Refresh II, or Apple Pie's idea of making Refresh mp restoration and/or duration dependent on Enhancing Magic skill. And how about doing the same thing for Regen, too, while they're at it - if they're not going to give Enhancing spells (Regen II/III) to a job that is better at Enhancing magic than WHM, they can at least let the Enhancing skill count for something.

I do have an idea for a new Enfeeble though - Vertigo, increases the chance that characters attacking the affected monster will score critical hits, and lowers evasion (cumulative with Gravity). High level players are always complaining about how they don't hit enough with millions of gil of +acc gear, double Madrigal, Shield Break and Gravity. What's with Time Mage? And for Demi, even if HNMs resist them, it will still be overpowered since RDMs would then be able to solo even or rough mobs without any problems with it. I was replying to the post I quote, but you don't seem to be with the Time Mage stuff. :confused: And RDMs get to learn Fire Blizzard and Thunder III from 71 to 75, the only time RDM gets to learn the next elemental spell that fast, don't get anything? :angel:

[Karinya]

Originally posted by Deodorant
The one thing I really don't like about rdm is the lack of good WS's.

While farming, or doing other dumb stuff like genkai, etc, I find that my most damaging WS is fast blade.
Why not use viper bite? RDM get it regardless of sub. And if you're soloing you probably have THF subbed anyway. Yes, daggers do crap damage to IT++ - so do 1H swords. And you don't solo IT++ anyway.

Plus, dagger also has Energy Steal and Energy Drain, which are good for soloing RDM (you can never have too many MP, even with Refresh). And the lower delay of daggers means more damage output from En spells (which have incredible mana efficiency, 12 MP for hundreds of damage if it's on a monster you can hit regularly).

It's true that there aren't many good damaging 1h sword WS that aren't EX - but RDM is on the EX list for dagger.

[Zania]

Well as for lack of WSes...we arent really missing any dagger WSes until dancing edge/shark bite which is thief only. Viper bite is um...sad. Its 2x physical + poison damage, with low damage on daggers you are way better off using gust slash / cyclone for damage (reason thief is good with viper is because of non gimped sneak attack). Energy drain is very very powerful, and red mages is the job that can best utilize that skill out of all dagger wielding jobs. You can solo tough con crabs in kuftal with that WS at 60 ^^

As for sword WSes. Well its a tradeoff. We are a mage class, so we really shouldnt be getting most powerful weapon skills available. Would be nice if SE created a quested weaponskills for different jobs, but I really dont see that happening.

Zania

[aszid]

ok... so let me compile the list of things people want for rdm... all posted in this thread:


1. refresh II/III
2. refresh-ga
3. better sword skill
4. access to better weapon skills
5. warping abilities
6. ability to cast en- spells on others
7. Demi
8. Stop
9. slow II
10. petrify
11. gravity II
12. "vertigo"
13. Dia III
14. better nuking ability
15. a -seal ability
16. a rapier class weapons with A+ skill
17. a TP boosting spell


well... i could go on, and on... but i think you see what i mean.... this thread was interesting in the beginning, then slowly turned... well.. ridiculous. some of the original ideas for this thread were not necassarily bad ideas, but after every person that posted added their own "rdm should have" it totally dragged the original idea down to the same level as the rest.

as it stands, RDM are well-balanced, if not overbalanced. RDM do not "need" anything to fit in line with the rest of the classes.

[Zaptruder]

Rdm's are awesome enough to be in high demand and a necessary job in the later levels... thanks to refresh.

However, they're not a solo class... if you gave them refresh 2, they would definetly have the potential to solo quite well.... along with stuff like enelemental and energy drain... it would be kinda ridiculous.

[Zania]

I just want resist petrify trait fixed. I really dont think its asking too much either! While at that I hope they'll fix everyones 'resist' traits because they all seem to be broken. One would thing that at 60+ a too weak to be worthwhile mob shouldnt be able to petrify a red mage for over 2 minutes....

Zania

[Xyphere]

Well today I was on my way to West Ron to see JeJ and I casted Refresh on the Telepo lady. She said "Wow! Your Refresh is the fastest I have ever seen!" I didnt even notice how fast it was going myself. my Enhancing Magic had increased a lot because I wasnt level RDM for a while, and soloing. So now I see that there is no need for Refresh II. i mean my Refresh was goin pretty damn fast,,

[Zania]

The heck?
Currently refresh does not depend on your enhancing skill at all. Its still same 3 mp per 3 seconds for 2.5 minutes (150mp gained from spell total). Just tested that myself to make sure. Exactly same ratio as I had at 41 with almost half enhancing skill.

Zania

[SharMarali]

Originally posted by aszid
ok... so let me compile the list of things people want for rdm... all posted in this thread:


<SNIP>

Well..

This is exactly what I've always loved about this job ^^

RDMs are so versatile. There are a variety of legitimate, valid, USEFUL ways to play this job. You can ask 30 career RDMs what the single most useful enhancement to RDM would be, for their wishlist, and you would likely get 30 different answers. The reason that list was so long was BECAUSE of this versatility.

Some think enhancements to weapon skills would be the greatest improvement, some think we should get additional attack magic capabilities, some would like to see us have even better weakening magic.. It goes on.

I just love how different everyone's ideas are on what a RDM can be, should be, and what would best help us out in the future.

Personally, I would like to see RefreshII get released in the future, but I do believe it should be level 71+. Otherwise refresh becomes TOO powerful in the 60's. The idea of a JA that reduces cast time to 0 for a single spell was neat. Actually, I think something like that could work out, but instead of reducing cast time to 0 for one spell (let's be realistic here~) it would reduce cast time by 50% for one spell. Further, it would need to be level 45-50. Can you imagine the havoc something like that ability would wreak if it were useable with a RDM SJ? BLMs would ALL, across the board, start subbing RDM instead of WHM. There aren't many of them out there that are talented enough to MB with ancient magics. If an ability was available to them that would reduce cast time by 50% for a single spell, they'd all MB flood every 10 minues. ^^ WHMs would find some use for it too, I'm sure. 50% reduced cast time on curegaIII.. Yeah I could see where that might be helpful.